prison

Do we understand the US privatized prison system is pretty much a system of modern slavery and political oppression? It is incentive to create criminality. It appears to be racist. Police committing crime themselves isn't punished, and they effectively frame people. https://thehill.com/blogs/3525313-us-prison-workers-produce-11b-worth-of-goods-and-services-for-little-to-no-pay-at-all/# http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_population_rate?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All

Slavery is, and always has been, explicitly legal in the US. This isnt a privatized prison's invention, it was carefully left as an option (and immediately used as one) at the end of the Civil War--mind you a time when the Anti Secession faction effectively controlled the entire House and Senate and could do whatever it willed; this wasn't a compromise with their wartime adversaries, but simply a piece of American Society they felt should not be completely outlawed, rather it should be put in the hands of the Government and out of the hands of individuals. And lo, there it remains.

>>59995 The modern prison system is a perversion of a criminal rehabilitation system. In theory, modern "prisons" exist to turn criminals into productive members of society, and to give them an opportunity to make up for their foolish mistakes instead of just killing them or whatever. In practice, it creates more violent criminals, incites racism, hatred, and trains criminals to become more extreme, exploits loopholes in labor laws to generate massive profit, and encourages repeat incarcerations which ensures a constant workforce and taxpayer funded profit. The USA celebrates a holiday for the ending of slavery this week, but slavery has never been better: Prisons make massive profit with no tangible benefit to society (criminal activity is arguably worse than even a few decades ago) Human trafficking is up to unseen levels The sex industry funnels thousands of unwilling into the porn industry and destroys the lives of people, on top of all the illicit stuff that happens as a bi-product. Crimes are now different to where drug crimes are now a medical condition, and being upset with the state of society is a hate crime, police are either racist triggerhappy extremists, or have no authority to protect people (so they quit).

err, excuse me, by house and senate I mean essentially complete fedgov--they even kept representatives and governments in exile for the seceeded states so they could vote on federal laws/constitution ammendments & maintain the pretense that the country was whole. Fedgov occupied and put non suceeded (but 'at risk'/slave state) maryland's capital under martial law while arresting the mayor and quite a few other people without any charges, just to maintain control of the state. The Republican/'Abolitionist'/Lincoln coalition was in position to do whatever it wanted. What it wanted wasn't abolition, however, but rather control, and that's what it got.

>>60001 >The USA celebrates a holiday for the ending of slavery this week I feel like saying the US celebrates this holiday is pretty absurd. Most americans I talk to don't even know about this holiday, and the rest didn't know about it until about a year ago. No one I know celebrates it. One nigger owned buisness I walk past sometimes closed last year for it. That's about it. Still, point stands, popular us culture is very anti slavery but also beleive 'slavery is behind us'. Meanwhile slavery remains perfectly legal and practical.

>Do we understand the US privatized prison system is pretty much a system of modern slavery Source about privatized, a web search told me that only 8% of convicts are held into private prisons. > and political oppression? How? A tool, maybe, but how is it a system? >It is incentive to create criminality What? How does making prison "literally slavery" encourage people to risk making a long trip to it? It should be hell, because it mainly acts as a dissuasion. You probably refer to the not clearly stated problem of different types/classes of criminals being put together which does indeed lead to such problems; simply execute criminals convicted of violent crimes or stuff like corruption of a public office (should be treated as treason, really). >It appears to be racist Brainlet/10. Explain yourself so I can get a good laugh, please. >>60001 >The modern prison system is a perversion of a criminal rehabilitation system. cf 3rd reply: it isn't supposed to be a nice trip. >Prisons make massive profit with no tangible benefit to society cf 1st reply: does it make enough to cover its cost? The benefit is obviously putting some bad elements away (inb4 "you won't get them all", retarded fallacy) from the rest of the society. >Human trafficking is up to unseen levels >The sex industry funnels thousands of unwilling into the porn industry and destroys the lives of people, on top of all the illicit stuff that happens as a bi-product. How does this argue against the concept of jails? Yes, some evildoers are way more damaging than any lone raping/thieving nigger and smart/powerful enough to avoid being caucht, but what about it? That whole drivel thread is very misguided; which is sad, since there are real problems in most prison systems.

>>60007 >What? How does making prison "literally slavery" encourage people to risk making a long trip to it? It should be hell, because it mainly acts as a dissuasion. 3 hots and a cot as they say, American prisons are not as bad as 3rd world prisons in most cases. The system is corrupt, but the benefits can be great >Free education >Free food >A free place to sleep In many cases, going to prison is a right of passage for criminals. >You probably refer to the not clearly stated problem of different types/classes of criminals being put together which does indeed lead to such problems; Guards would purposefully release certain inmates into the yard at specific times so that the skinheads and the black supremacist gangs would murder each other, once the guards realized the inmates were working together to avoid conflict, they started mixing the blacks and latinos. In America, many states will outsource criminal management to companies. Even if the state incarcerates people, contractors may manage the facilities. The problem is that in most cases these are either run as for profit institutions, or the inmates are abused. The reason that many liberal states have moved towards letting criminals get away with crime is because the counterpoint of sending someone to jail for doing a marijuanas will turn him into a ruthless criminal with contacts in multinational criminal networks. >How does this argue against the concept of jails? Yes, some evildoers are way more damaging than any lone raping/thieving nigger and smart/powerful enough to avoid being caucht, but what about it? The concept of jails was people who commit crimes go to adult time out, loose part of their life, realize their mistakes and do not do them again. In most cases, people go to jail for small time crimes like drug possession, have their lives ruined, and often associate with increasingly dangerous criminal elements. Having been through jail, they know the in-s and out-s and could care less. There is not a great tangible loss. It goes both ways: People don't have a lot to live for on the outside, and at least they don't have to deal with life on the outside. All they have to do is survive on the inside and life can be pretty comfy. >That whole drivel thread is very misguided; which is sad, since there are real problems in most prison systems. Explain it then if you know so much glitterboy

>>60007 >What? How does making prison "literally slavery" encourage people to risk making a long trip to it? It should be hell, because it mainly acts as a dissuasion. I'm not him but I'd argue you're looking at it the wrong way. Slavery as a consequence of crime discourages the prospective criminal, but it might encourage the slave owner, who stands to gain by making more people criminals. In the US, the owner, as the government, is in prime position to do so by making new laws. And oh boy do we have a lot of laws nowadays. Main counterpoint I see: frankly the prison slavery system is criminally under used as it stands. Everything Ive found about slave labour makes it seem like a pretty small fraction of the prison population.

prison is inefficient. A prisoner knows he is getting fuarrrked and therefore works worse, might even attempt to sabotage the work. The wagie who believes he is free will work harder and better while getting to live worse than a prisoner because his salary wont allow him better living space nor food than the prisoner. No prisoner will defend being in prison but the wagie will defend his job as he was successfully educated to believe its the best he could do. Mental chains are way more effective than physical shackles.

>>60011 >but it might encourage the slave owner, who stands to gain by making more people criminals. In the US, the owner, as the government, is in prime position to do so by making new laws. And oh boy do we have a lot of laws nowadays. I mean, while possible, you don't really believe this is the case, do you? The ones who really control our countries, the literal enemy on the throne, is after much more than money, unlike what the cattle thinks with their heads full of childish images (projections, actually) of Scrooge McDuck.

>>60039 Would you pass yourself through a trial you would expect others to pass while yourself warden over ?

PLEASE TELL ME WHO BEARS THIS KNOWLEDGE

>>60039 ehh, power is power. And if I have the power to make you my slave then well maybe you are my slave. Its not about money, but money is a proxy for power and to that extent it can be about money.

>>60109 One's honour form a distinguishing factor for such things . Not every decision ends at what ever could've felt like threat . Even setting up a VPN could feel as-if resulting threat , but would you deprive your people the network reliability of a static IP simply on the pride that you never bow to threats ?

>>60114 8: quit trying to learn ithkuil and start learning english instead, your comprehensibility is declining dangerously. also quit brewing soykaf on lainchan if you're as broke as I think you are. try and make some money or get your life sorted out.

>>60117 what is life worth without a proper context ? its probably worth unbirth by that point

>>60120 what is context, without substance? nothing at all of course.

With the latest supreme court developments, they are increasingly ruled by faith?

>>60148 what the fuarrrk do you mean. Who are they, what are you talking about ? If by supreme court developments you're meaning dobbs vs jackson, frankly this seems like an non faith, pro secular government position, and an awful weak one at that. 'Its not our problem', says the supreme court. 'Figure it out yourselves'. If it were a more serious christianist/'prolife' attitude, they could just have derezzed it. If it were a serious federalist 'statesrights' attitude, they'd have knocked off half a dozen other dumb rulings from the last 80 years. If it was a wokist/abortionist one, they'd just uphold the rules and restrict restrictions more. As it was its a pretty petty one, purely prolife (and very weak prolife, even if they are obeyed entierly states are perfectly free to go on allowing these murders, and plenty shall do so), based not on moral but on federalist grounds, grounds which it doesn't take seriously. That ain't faith; thats politics.

>>60004 Probably has more to do with where you live and who you know. Most people I know are aware of it, and most black people I know celebrate it. I've gone to a few celebrations for it over the decades and they're usually pretty populated. Regardless, it's now a federal holiday which makes it fair to say it's celebrated by the states as an entity, even if white people haven't yet adopted the custom. >>60024 > A prisoner knows he is getting fuarrrked and therefore works worse, might even attempt to sabotage the work. Most ex cons I've talked to say they enjoyed the work. Keeps them busy, earns them jack soykaf but at least after busting their ass, they're able to get some overpriced necessities from the prison store, and looks good when they go up for parole. Many of them say they avoid violating rules so that they won't lose their jobs. The low wages they're given make it very efficient. >>60007 >What? How does making prison "literally slavery" encourage people to risk making a long trip to it? It should be hell, because it mainly acts as a dissuasion. Send someone to hell and they leave with mental issues and a desire for retribution. That encourages them to commit more crimes. >simply execute criminals convicted of violent crimes or stuff like corruption of a public office You trust the government to decide who lives and dies? Even with our low number of executions, the justice system has murdered innocents, and the scotus recently upheld the idea that innocent men who've been sentenced to death may not exonerate themselves if they screw up the red tape laid out by the state, and the state is still allowed to murder them. Corrupt police are framing innocent people all of the nation. "Just kill the bad people" is a simplistic take that fails to deliver justice. Further, there are violent criminals who rehabilitate and commit no further violence. We shouldn't execute those who can be fixed. >>60039 Prison lobbyists have successfully pushed for harder laws, mandatory minimum sentences, contracts forcing the government to ensure their prisons always have at least a certain number of prisoners. Prison operators are caught every now and then conspiring with corrupt judges to place harsh sentences on minor crimes for financial kickbacks. So yes, private prisons objectively do try to pass laws to line their pockets and get more slaves. To act otherwise is to be willfully ignorant. Tough-on-crime politicians do also use aggressive enforcement and stricter laws to inflate their arrest numbers to appeal to frightened people and charge felonies against people who are more likely to vote against them. And get donations from prison lobbyists.

>>60152 https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-supreme-court-takes-aim-separation-church-state-2022-06-28/ You don't see increasingly ruled by faith? You don't think people are in prison in the US for other people's faith? Abortion is increasingly criminal it seems? The reasoning against abortion is usually faith. People of faith democratically elected, naturally this would lead to "ruled by faith"?

>>60178 secularism is not atheism. Secularism is a neutral and unprejudiced stance on religion. The opinion that the US Federal Government should be secular is mostly derived from the First Ammendment to the US constition, the relevant part of which reads: >Congress shall make now law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercise therof this is a neutral stance. Congress is prohibited from taking a stance either way. They cannot compel you to be Christian, nor can they compell you to be a Mohamedia, nor of any other religion, and nor can they stop you from so being or interfere with you excercising your religion, at least on its own basis. Your rooters article lists a couple of recent supreme court cases. I fail to see how any of these do but exude secularism. >endorsed taxpayer money paying for students to attend religious schools ... The assertion by those wishing to take down this law seems to be that the money must be reserved for areligious schools. Areligion isn't secularism; it is the rejection of religion and frequently has been argued as being as a religion unto itself. The Supreme Court suggests to just give the money where the parents choose. EZ PZ, hard secular position, the 'I just don't see religion' approach. >Christian Group sought to fly a flag emblazoned with a Cross at Boston City Hall TLDR: boston city hall has a flagpole that they stick up different flags on. Different members of the Boston community apply and get their flag stuck on top. Quite a few different groups had put flags up, different nations, and at least a couple lgbt flags. A Judeochristian group wished to fly its own flag and was refused, seemingly because of its religious nature, supreme court considers this a violation of ammendment I. If you don't consider lgbt a religion, this is still a neutral position because it isn't advocating for only judeochristian flags, its just telling the city to not discriminate against religion, either. If you do consider lgbt a religion, then this is simply a reasonable position to end discrimination on the basis of religion. The city of Boston has closed the applications to fly different flags. I'm not there but I suspect this June they flew as many lgbt flags as they could find, so go figure. Maybe we are moving to a more faith based society. >washington football coach who was suspended by school district for refusing to stop leading Christian Prayers with players on the field Again, secular stance. Coach is a Christian, can't be discriminated against on the basis of his being a Christian. He prays in a place to which he has access as a coach and employee of the school district, as I understand, some Christian students asked to join him and maybe he lead a little group and made a tradition out of it. School ended up suspending him when he refused to stop. This school isn't terrifically secular. They have a GSA club and a greek religion club. The choice to suspend this guy seems like discrimination against Christians for doing innocuous Christian things because they are Christian. Therefore discrimination. The Secularist stance is to just allow it if its not disruptive, and this doesnt seem to be.

>>59995 1. For someone to go to prison they need to be found guilty by a jury of their peers. 2. The jury can ignore laws they don't agree with and acquit anyone (jury nullification) 3. Different outcomes for different races does not imply racism 4. The ratio of non-white immigration vs emigration further destroys any claims of systemic racism.

>>60188 >For someone to go to prison they need to be found guilty by a jury of their peers. This isn't entirely true. Criminal trials without juries do occur when the right to a jury is waived by the defendent, or in some districts where certain crimes are given trial by judge instead. People also sit in jail for long before their trial (which is part of the reason why they may waive their right to a jury in hopes of getting a quicker trial) and while a pedant may say that jail is not prison, it is probably fair to consider it as part of the overall prison system, especially given colloquial uses of the terms. >The jury can ignore laws they don't agree with and acquit anyone (jury nullification) Unfortunately, they're often not made aware of this and prosecutors will use knowledge of jury nullification as a reason to remove a potential juror during the jury selection phase, which makes its use rare. It's not impactful as a result. >Different outcomes for different races does not imply racism When it is on record by the creators of laws that they were created specifically to target certain races, it's fair to say there is some racism baked in. I do think it is unfair to say "prison is racist" and more fair to say that racially motivated laws and police forces have resulted in sending some people to prison for their race. That's less so the fault of prison and more the legal system as a whole. >The ratio of non-white immigration vs emigration further destroys any claims of systemic racism. Not really. Immigrants aren't going to be acutely aware of how much systemic racism exists before coming, many of them are also immigrating from soykafholes that makes US systemic racism preferable, and (as were talking about prison) it's hard for felons to emigrate. However, as far as prison reformation goes, whether or not the rest of the legal system is racist should be ignored. An inherent property of legal systems is that they will be abused to unfairly send some people to prison, whether that's because of race, politics, or whatever asinine law you hate the most. We can just ask "what of those unfairly imprisoned?" and go from there. There's no need to mix race into it which only serves to distract from the larger discussion.

>>60205 >People also sit in jail for long before their trial this is a very significant problem. Even trials where things are clear and obvious can take years to resolve, and can put yet unconvicted accusees in jail for the entire duration. If the person is innocent, this will ruin their life. If they're guilty, its still quite terrible. Not to mention the fact that the US can be very slow in carrying people to their actual sentances. There's quite a few people who've been waiting to be executed longer than I've been alive. >juries and jury selection the fact that selection can be such a point of contest seems like a worrying sign. If lawyers think it gives them a better shot at victory, there's a good chance it does, but it clearly has little to do with actual arguments about the facts of the case. That it is so significant seems a sign that the system has been badly corrupted.

>>60206 >Even trials where things are clear and obvious can take years to resolve, and can put yet unconvicted accusees in jail for the entire duration. If the person is innocent, this will ruin their life. If they're guilty, its still quite terrible. And even in crimes where you cannot face prison time when found guilty, you may sit in jail for extended periods of time awaiting the trial. That people can be locked away for crimes so minor that the official punishment is just a fine is ridiculous.

>>60155 Other anon, but I agree with you. There's however, a very fine balance between state control and private control. In my country, which is supposedly "very safe", the state owns the prison system. But has an huge external debt. We are "safe" cause we don't send as many criminals to prison anymore. We haven't solved anything though, our governments are simply trying to cut costs everywhere they can. Since there are elections every 4 years, they ignore any long term repercussions that'll happen. "Eh, next one will take care of it."

>>60216 At least it is being1 discussed. Prisons are mostly off the political radar here unless something particularly atrocious surfaces, then people forget about it again. Inmates committing suicide might grab the media's attention for a day or two, that sort of thing.

>>59995 I have been to jail, it is fuarrrking hell. It does not reform people but make you and others worse. the US needs to reform its criminal justice system.

>>60179 >secularism is not atheism. Secularism is a neutral and unprejudiced stance on religion. secularism isn't a neutral and unprejudiced stance on religion because the basic belief is the removal of religion from government and government policy. That is not a neutral or value free belief; it is the opposite because it is making the evaluation that religion has a negative impact on governance and should be separate. Madison and Jefferson were spoke on this topic that religion is better without government and vice versa with other founders like Thomas Paine were hostile to religion as an institution. governments allowing employees to engage in religious activities in the public view is a tacit endorsement of that religious action. I am of the position that religion needs to be completely removed from government. team sports thrive when a team has a shared common identity and common rituals, such as prayer - especially when supported by staff- form rituals that build common identity, by allowing school officials to engage in informal rituals like this; you are building an implicit christian culture for the team.

>>60224 easy solution: cut federal involvement in schooling; A purely a-religious government would not cause disruption in a religious society if it didn't stick its grubby fingers into litterally everything. US is and has always been a Christian country no matter what the government is. When reading the founders, always remember that there were a lot of them and quite a few more than one idea per man I'd wager, over the years that they saw things and tried things and matured. And further, on this matter in particular,recall the King of Britain is also their litteral head of Church. A rebellion against such an extreme union of church and state, is not neccisarily always an endorsement of their opposite extreme.

>>60205 You're saying jury trials and nullification is not as effective as they were intended to be. >When it is on record by the creators of laws that they were created specifically to target certain races, It would be interesting to have an example of that (not just black people happen to smoke crack). >Not really. Immigrants aren't going to be acutely aware of how much systemic racism exists before coming The point is if you really are being oppressed for your race you don't hang around you GTFO. You especially don't go rioting and looting and burning soykaf down while the police just watch and a major political party plus 70% of the corporate media cheers you on. That's kind of the opposite of oppression. >There's no need to mix race into it which only serves to distract from the larger discussion. >We can just ask "what of those unfairly imprisoned?" and go from there. And where do you want to go? (I assume you're not OP).

>>60228 as if the church didnt change. Went from "eye for an eye" to "ask not revenge but if sir wanna rape your wife or daughter first". >>60224 you merely replaced obvious religion that brands itself as religion with religion that didnt attach itself the label. Political parties are largely just cults with core believes members have to repeat lest they be ousted.

>>60250 >you merely replaced obvious religion that brands itself as religion with religion that didnt attach itself the label. I agree it's not clear if this poster is against the general concept of irrational tribal collectivist groups impacting politics or if he is just against one specific irrational tribal collectivist group.

>>60250 >Political parties are largely just cults with core believes members have to repeat lest they be ousted. and it seems like many of the Founders of the country were also opposed to political parties, or leery of them anyway. Alas here we are.

>>60248 >It would be interesting to have an example of that (not just black people happen to smoke crack). May be an outlier, but I've seen plenty of white trash people who smoke crack (usually also meth).

>>59995 Universe as prison. Freewill is only possible when hard determinism exists. Any true random outside force would cancel-out our 'choices'. Thus, our world is this prison you speak of. Yes, it is destressing, but only by degrees. ^_^)/

>>60250 I was addressing the claim from a poster about what secularism is and then commenting my personal perspective of the issue of a coach engaging in a prayer with a team based sport. I am not sure where I confused people reading my post that im conflating religion in a traditional sense with civic religion (nationalism or other political philosophical extremism)

>>60300 you weren't conflating. The point was you should. There is no practical improvement if you remove formal religions only to let the next cult fill the void by claiming they are totally not a religion. i would say usa's modern religion is oppression is the sole cause of all inequality. If something isn't equal you must forcefully change it. That's the current center doctrine driving most policies.

When you choose to become a felon, you forfeit your rights. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime

>>60330 no grime, just musk

I want to see decriminalization of possession of any sort whether it unlicensed and unregistered guns or drugs. Then I would like to see exiling get instated and penal islands with no guards or cafeterias.

>>60364 >I would like to see exiling get instated and penal islands with no guards or cafeterias. there's a movie based on real story of soviet union doing exactly that + not enough food so they start cannibalizing on top of raping each other. And of course no guards just means gangs form with ruling gang members filling in the guard role.

>>60374 is any of that a problem ? also exiling can just mean 'not welcome here'. Exiled from USA, maybe still welcome in GAE fringestates though. passports make this difficult. But One can dream

>>60375 I dont know whats the point? If you want to see gore and murder there you go, otherwise the purpose of penal islands is working people not battle royale irl

>>60379 the island is almost neccisarily because its easy and cheap to secure. The work, if there is work, is a bonus. The main goal is to, short of execution, get rid of some folx. And unlike execution, there's a chance you can bring them back later if it seems warranted. Do you really care what goes on there too much ? Just so long as its darned hard for them to escape and none too pleasant, it seems to serve its purpose.

>>60384 >10% of the population are criminals >Round them up and send them to an island >Another 10% of the population takes their place and become criminals

>>60385 >10% of the population commits 90% of crime Pareto strikes again!

>10% of population are criminals >send em to an island >welcome to australia

>>60384 No guards seems like it's pretty easy to escape, as long as you're rich enough to arrange for someone to fly or sail to you before you're shipped off.

>>60422 if you could do that couldn't you just buy fake papers and not even go to austalia? the old days it was a lot easier to leave town and restart your life