Muslim's In America

Hello Lainons. I have recently taken a more passionate view on theology as it exists for humanity as a whole. I have been given the chance to interview a local Imam because of my class in uni. The topic of the class is Muslim's in America and my project is to interview this Imam. I have a few questions set up for him, but I think it would be cool to open open it up to you all (not just because I can't come up with some more questions). What do you want to learn about Islam right from an Imam? What would be some good questions to ask him in order to gain a better knowledge of Islam in the context of practicing in the States?

i would like to know the official stance on keeping dogs as pets. is it actually islamic doctrine? Or arab culture?

You should first of all clarify what sect he is because his answers will be biased toward that sect; so it will help you interpret his answers. I do have one question Muslims never answer. Considering there is religious code of dress based on a certain perception of modesty why is that Muslim girls wear traditional head/hair coverings in Western societies that it clearly makes them stand out and act prideful of their religious appearance. On that note would it be permissible for them to wear hoodies with the hoods up or beanies or something along those lines which provides same level of coverage and wouldn't it make sense to even be preferred based on how it wouldn't draw attention to appearances as much as a culturally out of place clothing? Muslims oddly avoid answering this whenever I ask as if they have no idea what to say and i cant find answers online. He may be stumped by this as well so probably dont want to open with it. You also may want to more carefully word it than I did if possible. Oh here's another fun one though not as hard how do Muslims in America determine prayer times and keep on schedule especially when in a city where they can't easily see when the sun is rising and setting and how much of an issue would he consider them missing being on time even if they were inside in a public space for example a crowded subway station. I once saw a Muslim praying in a parking lot so does he think Muslims should do that sort of thing or wait a while and go to a more appropriate location? >>52427 Made me curious and I came across this site claiming it's fine for them to have pets including dogs but says not to have them inside just anywhere because they are unclean so it might be either cultural or misunderstanding of rules regardless of culture? May need clarifying but even among imams opinions may differ I assume. I think it would be interesting to get the imam to address this problem just need to be careful how to phrase it if animal abuse being an issue is brought up as to not sound accusatory or generalizing. https://www.animalsinislam.com/islam-animal-rights/dogs/

Forgot to ad. Maybe ask him if he thinks Nation of Islam should be considered an American sect of Islam or something else entirely and what are some of his general thoughts about it.

>>52428 Hey thanks for this. I'll definetly ask about the prayer scheduling as I think that's a good question. I probably won't ask the head covering question just because I'm trying to play it safe. He's a nice guy though, I've chatted with him in the past. >>52427 I didn't even know about this. I'll put that on the question list

>>52428 The internet has conflicting views on the DQ (dog question). I have always wanted to know what the official line is on this. I know that they derezzed dog walking in the gaza strip or somewhere like that. Hopefully op will deliver.

>>52435 Dont worry, I shall :)

>>52430 I was kinda concerned seeing that Muslim guy pray in a empty parking space. He could have easily been hit by a truck which has a big lower blind spot. He had a prayer mat so he definitely was praying. Was a strange sight to witness. Though i kinda know what his answer might be he may bring up the use of smartphone apps which you could as a segway into that case where the metadata from a prayer app was being collected to surveil Muslims perhaps if you wanted. But i do wonder what other methods people use than prayer call apps. You could still ask the hijab question if you just leave out the part explaining why it seems contradictory. Just ask are women required to wear a specific kind of head covering or if something like a hoodie or beanie would also be considered acceptable if it's coverage is same which doesnt sound so judgy wording it that way so should be non controversial then, just a potential challenging question because he might not have ever thought of it before because tradition.

>>52425 Ask him how we can better regulate women.

Ask him how he feels about the American withdrawal.

>>52553 Of Afghanistan? My interview will be based on his religion and his experience in America in the context of his faith. While this would be an interesting conversation to have with the Imam, it's unfortunately not relevant in the context of this interview.

If there is a situation where religious (shariah) law and governmental (American) law are in conflict, where following one breaks the other, which should take priority and if it depends what are some examples for each?

You haven't even told us if this guy is sunni or shiite. Just that he's exotic is already interesting enough to you. And you're going to make him represent all of muslim america? Good luck with that. >What do you want to learn about Islam right from an Imam? Implying he's going to truthfully answer all your questions. You even already stated you're afraid to ask him certain questions. Would a catholic priest lie about his religion? Of course he would. Would you ask him about the abuse scandal? You wouldn't really be interviewing him if you didn't.

>>52568 What the subject of the interview doesn't say can be as interesting as what they do.

>>52565 This is a good one. American law does dictate over Shariah law, but it's still one to ask. >>52568 1. of course this isn't going to cover everyone's experiences, but he can still have knowledge that we do not as a muslim in America himself. 2. i don't know if he's sunni or soykafte. he is an imam of a very diverse mosque. 3. see >>52591 Just wanted to open the floor for everyone. not like im going to get a groundbreaking testamony from someone.

>>52607 Yes in a legal sense American law trumps Islamic law but I mean from an ethical standpoint which you may want to use that word to make it clearer so his answer may be more interesting.

When is the interview scheduled for?

The original language had marks like ê è to allow different meaning of the same word. Along the ages the language lost the marks and people had to interpret whether that e is an ê or è to guess the original meaning. Is he aware of this historical fact and do they consider all options or do they listen to their head guy saying its definitely this interpretation?

>>52425 Ask him how his life was affected by american culture, what he learned from it and what he thinks americans can learn from him and/or islam. Also that's a weird request, lainon.

>>52425 is alcohol evil? what of people addicted to alcohol?

Hello, OP here. The interview was yesterday. I've been busy recently, but here are the answers to the questions asked by you all in the thread: >>52428 Praying at the right time is not really necessary as long as you make it up later on. You could do your five prayers when you are done with work for the day, for example. God is merciful after all. >>52427 Dogs are allowed to have as pets, but it's his belief that dogs need a purpose and are generally kept outside. They must have a purpose such as protecting the house or, for example, be a service dog. >>52565 As I said here >>52607 the law of the land take priority over Shariah, but for the majority of it, he doesn't see many conflicts with American law and his interpretation of Shariah. Ethically it's the same. >>52484 I forgot to ask about the head coverings. Sorry about that, it was a good question to ask. Overall, a good experience in my opinion and I thank you all for your questions!

>>53142 Thanks for reporting back. >Praying at the right time is not really necessary as long as you make it up later on. Makes sense >Dogs are allowed to have as pets, but it's his belief that dogs need a purpose and are generally kept outside Weird answer because pets are for companionship or because you want to help their health which is a purpose. >law of the land take priority over Shariah, but for the majority of it, he doesn't see many conflicts with American law and his interpretation of Shariah Well at least he seems to reject killing apostates. >I forgot to ask about the head coverings. Damn. It's still a mystery then. Seriously Muslims really dont seem to know about this. You would think it would be something clear....

>>52484 >>52484 >>52565 As I understand it, the law of faith takes priority over all other laws, In fact, I believe there is a place in the quran where it specifies that if your parents try to keep you from the faith, then you should stand up against them >>53184 >I forgot to ask about the head coverings. >Damn. It's still a mystery then. Seriously Muslims really dont seem to know about this. You would think it would be something clear.... I thought that the concept of head coverings was more of a cultural interpretation, which is why women from different predominantly Muslim cultures have their own takes on coverings. Compare women from muslim eastern europe to middle east, to south east asia. >Although firmly rooted in Islamic tradition, hijab is not strictly defined in the Muslim holy book, the Quran. It is often a personal and cultural concept, not a religious one. Expression of hijab varies within the Muslim world and beyond. These verses of the Quran offer insight into hijab and relevant ideas about modesty, respect, privacy, and humility: Chapter 24, verses 30 and 31; Chapter 33, verses 32 and 33; and Chapter 33, verses 53 and 54.

>>53228 Yeah there's nothing in the Quran about the hijab. This is a driving factor behind the no-hijab movement with progressive Muslims or whatever it's called. A lot of Muslims don't find the covering oppressive, which I've found interesting in my studies. And yes, there is a section of the Quran that says to stand against your parents if they keep you from your faith. I think it's more of a metaphor than a literal meaning. Stand up for what you believe in, etc.

>>53228 I can tell it is somewhat cultural but I still find it odd ive never heard of a Muslim girl in the west just wearing western head coverings even if they aren't immigrants not second gen immigrant or even third gen. They always seem to instead signal to others they are Muslims by going for a hijab or chador or even a niqab or burka. I've seen multiple Muslims in niqabs where I live in the US and many are black women not Arabs despite the niqab and burka being from Saudi Arabian Wahabists.

>>53326 it's just to show the world they're Muslim.

>>53332 I know but point is from my understanding there seems to be an internal contradiction where doing such a thing goes against the point

>>53326 >>53351 Auslain here, but have lived in Egypt and Malaysia and I don't see it as a contradiction so maybe my experience might help. I have seen Muslim women in both Muslim and Western countries wearing e.g. a scarf and a beanie, or a turtle neck with a sleek turban-style hijab. I haven't seen hoodies personally, but I think it would be fine as long as they had something securing their hair -- otherwise it would still be visible through the face hole -- and the shirt underneath covered their décolletage. Perhaps you're interpreting the word "modesty" more broadly than it's really intended. My understanding is that it's rooted in social-sexual mores and the rule is fundamentally aimed at confining the display of a woman's body to within her family. Rule of thumb: hair, to-the-neck, to-the-wrists, to-the-ankles. It's not an injunction against prideful appearances in general -- there are plenty of prideful Muslim women! See the "camel hump" hijab style in pics attached, which are clearly vain but (unlike the turban style) no one would even bat an eyelid, let alone call it immodest, because it still more than meets what I call the sexy skin definition. Also Muslim society has its own entire "liberal-conservative" spectrum and a strong conservative would likely find both non-typical approaches to halal dress unacceptable because they value the broader (stricter) morals of the religion. Ironically, to a conservative who is more keen on preserving modesty, being quieter about signalling your Muslim identity is a step in the wrong direction ... it would be a liberal idea to wear what you feel like as long as it technically met the standard. E.g. A daughter from a rural or conservative family will dress in a niqab or whatever is mainstream where they are, no question ... middle class daughters might stuff and bezaddle their hijabs because while adhering to rules and expectations, they still want to express themselves and don't fully embrace the conservative ethos ... while the liberal foreign-educated daughters may go all the way to custom high-collared linen shirts with dainty silk scarves covering their hair. The centrally important thing is that every single one of them is a daughter ... until she's a wife and later perhaps a widow.

>>53352 edit: I should say, I don't think I've seen a Muslim woman wearing a hoodie, but how would I know? In jeans and a hoodie, most non-Muslim women with short hair are probably already dressed halal accidentally. Put another way, there's an inherent observation bias in asking why all the people you've happened to notice in a particular category all really obviously look like they're in that category.

>>53142 I am the dog question poster. Thank you op. That is interesting, i read stuff about Salukis being ok to have, as long as they are used for hunting. From what you said, it seems to be fairly discretionary. It doesnt seem that they are fully on board with having indoor dogs as pets though.

>>53326 >I've seen multiple Muslims in niqabs where I live in the US and many are black women not Arabs despite the niqab and burka being from Saudi Arabian Wahabists. IIRC there is a pseudo-politial sect of black american islam which has seen some growth recently. Some black women wear hijab as a fashion statement or to signal cultural affiliation. You can tell where people are from by headress alone. This also goes for men, for example saudi men are known to wear the distinct red and white headress. Nation of Islam (NOI) also has its own americanized interpretation of head covering. You can read more about American-black-muslim identity here https://www.racked.com/2017/5/1/15377034/blackness-hijab As for burkas, burkinis are a thing so that people can still follow their conservative beliefs while going to the beach. In places where the law requires women to cover their heads, women want to be flashy and noticeable by showing off fashionable interpretations of dress. Much like how a girl in the west might go to the gym wearing only a sports bra and skintight pants for more than just functionalilty. >>53362 Someone from Iraq once told me dogs are fine, as long as they are outdoors, you don't take them into the home

>>53352 >>53354 >auslain Austria or Australia? I like the look of turbans but still it's from a different culture. I will get back to point. So you have seen Muslim girls in beanies? Do you know them or did something else make you think they were Muslim? This isn't really from observation bias but rather my verbal interactions with Muslims. Maybe I just didnt get to ask around enough. However I'm not stretching modesty i just used that as a caitch all word for the broad application of the dress code. The quran mentions more than sex appeal when it comes to women's dress (and for men it has specifications against anything associated with dressing in what women wore back then such as gold or silk). In 24:31 at least some translations seem to strongly suggest against women going against the grain in "adornments" or "ornaments". https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=24&verse=31 Here in 33:33 the quran seems to basically say not to be flashy which I can see as potentially meaning not to stand out too much or be boastful of appearances. Though maybe im stretching this one by influence of what Ive been told by some Muslims that may have been more on the conservative side who didn't think women should wear makeup even. https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=33&verse=33 Not that im saying all Muslims do that just I noticed a good number of Western Muslims that clearly are prideful of displaying how Muslim they are and that they think it makes them special and they wind up standing out out of place looking which is what seems a potential contradiction to me. Not that I am for conformity but rather I feel I see not enough variety among Muslim dress in the West as one would expect so my statements are more a statement against conformity using religious text for context. >>53375 The black American Islam is called Nation of Islam and they are focused on in their mind returning to their African roots in opposition to Christianity being forced onto their slave ancestors. Muslims Ive spoken to do not consider them a sect of Islam just a racist hate group that corrupted Muslim teachings. Nation of Islam doesnt do burkas or niqabs so that can't be it. Im not sure I know of any other groups only things like the black Israelites which also are pretty racist but Jewish so cant be any of them. I know in some cases it may have been an immigrant but other times I heard them speak and no noticable accent present. Though I should ad I used to be online acquaintances with an American Muslim convert who wore a burka when going out because her husband forced her to (she eventually divorced him but i dont know the details there). That article got too idpol for me to want to complete it, it seemed to be saying was "blacks can be Muslims too" but various North Africans were Muslim for quite some time so this isn't anything to really do with America in particular. Only other possible explanation I have is maybe it's a phenomenon like zentai in Japan (pic rel) where people feel free by being anonymous in public but in America's case instead of strict cultural norms it may be from being insecure and socially anxious.

>>53397 To answer your question, I'm mostly talking about people I've known and observed while living in Muslim-majority countries -- although I've only seen the turban-style hijab among Western Muslim friends. TL;DR is that immodest dress is undesirable because it fosters moral corruption -- but signalling your acceptance of Islam by dressing modestly is actively encouraged, especially in non-believing countries where I suppose the moral corruption is assumed to be advanced. I've heard the same thing about make-up, also hair extensions and plucking eyebrows. The thing is all those things are still related to a material kind of immodesty -- specifically the kind that is likely to attract the attention of males outside the family group -- the basic sexual motivation of which I think is pretty clear in the first verse you mention. > “And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments ... they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their [list of family members] or the slaves ... or male servants free of physical needs [eunuchs], or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex ...” (Quran, 24:31) Granted, a woman is going to attract a bit of attention if she goes out wearing Muslim dress in a country where that's a minority religion. Apparently when she gets your attention, it takes the form of "oh that girl is Muslim [she thinks she's so special]" -- but it's not e.g. "damn look at her, I should ask for her number" so that's actually 2/2 from the Prophet's perspective. > “Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to wrap their outer garments around themselves. That is more suitable so that they will be known as pious women, and not be harassed.” (Quran, 33:59) Dressing "modestly" is ultimately a sign of piety, both being matters of degree. In countries where Islam is a minority religion, the basic concept of "piety" will be tied to another religion, so the signal gets interpreted as showing Muslim identity in general. It seems uncharitable to take that signal and infer that "they think it makes them special" ... like, yeah maybe they do believe that God looks at them favourably for doing it ... but it's too ordinary for them to be constantly going around feeling smug about it. Digging deeper, because it's an interesting question: there is a rule in Islam against libaas ash-shuhrah which literally means "status clothes" but has been interpreted to mean "flashy clothes, clothes which draw attention to the wearer." Attached is a Q&A between a sheikh and a Muslim from a small Caribbean island, asking whether they were breaking this because they stood out like a sore thumb in their religious costume. His response was basically "no way, dress more like a Muslim so they will all know how pious you are and true religion will spread!" Pictured: some Muslim women wearing clothes and make-up which loudly/proudly signal an identity message (Iranian football supporters). That place even has its own religious police, so this must be fine ...

>>53444 In the West, though this is fairly niche compared to something like Catholic schoolgirl fetish, some people have a fetish for hijabs, niqabs and burkas because of it's scarcity and can be either about corruption of the chaste or about a BDSM type fetish. So even if those verses were to only refer to beauty or sexuality related things I still can find some potential for contradiction. Though contradiction of some degree would be expected of any religion when something so old is present in a modern world it wasn't built around which is likely what drives religions to change is an attempt to remove contradictions between a religion and daily life. About makeup I have heard some sites suggest makeup shouldn't be to attract men but as part of self maintenance for prayer. Yet I am aware the quran has some lines specifically talking against altering natural looks like no tattoos and no teeth filling. So I'm not sure how some rationalize around that even in Muslim majority countries. Maybe they would argue that makeup isn't permanent so they aren't altering their body so it's fine?

>>53481 Even without a fetish, men being men, there will still be people led into fitnah (temptation) by a woman's eyes, or body shape, or the way she walks ... but a hijabi has done everything she can to discourage those thoughts. The rule on modest dress isn't a failure or a contradiction just because it doesn't eliminate 100% of moral corruption from people's minds ... that's the constant aim of the whole religion and requires a lot more than a dress code! My point was more that it's a person's piousness that leads them to wear the hijab -- so if that same religious feeling also means they feel proud wearing it, there's no contradiction, it's supposed to be an outward sign for the world that they accept Islam. Piousness isn't directly tied to meekness in Islam (which was converting and conquering from the very beginning) the way it is in Christianity (which got its start among dirt-poor imperial subjects).