Feminine boy Or Trans in denial

I've started to notice I'd say at the start of 2020 that I felt a lot more confident when I started to shave off some of my body hair, my body hair has always been a huge insecurity for me my entire life but when it comes to the fact I see my family often I'll never be able to shave my arms or legs because they'll start making extreme assumptions. I always wondered why in my life no matter how fit I got, who I was with, how well I ate I always felt insecure in myself and I avoided mirrors a lot. When I started to do things to make myself more feminine I finally felt more cute, I felt attractive for once in my life. I started wearing some more feminine clothes (Not girls clothes more androgynous) as well and when I did that my confidence also grew a bit more. Recently I've been thinking about how I really wish I was born a girl, but I don't know if these feelings are even valid or not, I keep telling myself that its just a random passing thought and that its not true and I'm just a feminine boy but I'm not sure if its true or not. Does anyone else have these feelings?

>>51819 I feel somehow similar to what you've described. Just a question - do you have autism? It turns out autistic people are less attached to their sex and the role they "should" play in the society. Combine that with the feeling of fitting nowhere and not understanding people and their emotions and that's it. Autism also comes with not being able to recognize faces/facial expressions well, this makes you doubt your identity when you look into a mirror. At least that's what happened to me, and now after discovering I have autism, I know why. "Changing" your gender won't help you, if you're like me. Care for your body, even if it seems awkward to you. Having personas should help. Ask if you have any questions.

>>51821 >Just a question - do you have autism? I've never been tested for autism but I've seen multiple therapists throughout my life I've only been diagnosed with ADHD & OCD, but sometimes my OCD can put me into a Depressive episode that's it. >"Changing" your gender won't help you if you're like me, care for your body even if it seems awkward to you. What do you mean by this, have you made yourself look more feminine or did you end up just caring for the body you have even though you aren't fond of it.

>>51822 >What do you mean by this What I mean by this is that it is really hard and expensive to pass unless you already look feminine. This combined with the fact that you can't really overwrite nature (yet) means that no matter what you do, it will not be the same as being a real female. I realized that all that trans stuff like surgeries and hormones is not worth it because it is unhealthy, expensive and will never give the result I want. My face is also really masculine so I would never pass. That's why it's pointless with current technology. I discovered that I actually don't care what my gender is as far as I'm myself. Trans "industry" makes also big money, so it is of course easier to tell you you should buy expensive hormones and surgeries, instead of for example acknowledging you have autism. The society wants to fit you into a role and what you should do is make a dodge. >I've only been diagnosed with ADHD & OCD Autism is often misdiagnosed for these two. Since you're on lainchan, I can assume at least something is wrong with you. I mean you have thoughts uncannily similar to my, something has to be common. I don't really care if I'm a man or a woman, I don't feel attached to my body, I want to change faces and bodies like I change clothes. This is basically transhumanizm.

I'm kind of like that but more vague where Im insecure about my body on and off. Seems to at least for me stem from the conflict between wanted to be desired and just accepting myself and wanting to mould myself into my own ideal im unclear on what that ideal is. These dont always conflict but it's a sense of not knowing what would make me feel best. I occasionally wonder if my life would be better if I was a born a girl but that's just from hardships not some thing I felt back all the way as a kid or anything like that. Other times it's just feeling like time slipped me by too fast without me getting to live it to fullest so I become focused on wanting to look more youthful which can take form of a sense of wanting to be cute. It doesn't necessarily mean you're trans in the sense of gender dysphoria it's just not conforming to a specific image which is actually what most people do on one thing or another since gender is just a spook. Try trimming your leg hair with a hair clipper and length attachment. I did it and it feels way more comfy now it's shorter and no one even really noticed especially if you were to shorten it slowly over time. Doesnt come with it all the hassle of shaving your legs leading to ingrown hairs or knicks from shaving. Not sure what you meant by shaving your arms if you meant arm hair or armpit hair. It's pretty common for guys to shave their armpits these days so you can easily get away with it without being hassled just say it's cooler and more sanitary. Unless your arm hair is thick and dark i dont see why youd want to shave it. Even girls often dont shave their arm hair if it's not dark and thick.

>>51819 You could try starting hormones but not transitioning. I've been boymoding for 5 years with no intention to transition and just knowing that i'm not getting any more masculine with age is a huge relief.

>>51819 >>51831 Also I had to buy the bootleg hormones from some Ukrainian trans girl with bitcoin and it felt cyberpunk as fuarrrk

>>51829 >Unless your arm hair is thick and dark i dont see why youd want to shave it. Even girls often dont shave their arm hair if it's not dark and thick. Its thick and dark im a fuarrrking chimp and i hate it

>>51837 Could bleach it over time with some 3% hydrogen peroxide to make it less visible. Has to be weaker so you dont overly damage your skin. Or just suck it up and wax or shave it.

OP I don't know if this is the best place to ask about something like this. for the record though your experiences are relatable as a tranny of 4+ years now to how I was pre-transition before I realized what the root of these feelings was, so that's something to think about

Do you watch porn? If so, how much and what kind? What kind of people are you attracted to in real life? What kind of male role models or authority figures did you have growing up? Some people are just androgynous. It can be a good look for many. It's definitely in for guys right now. Look at all the k-pop dudes. Doesn't necessarily mean you're secretly a girl. If it gives you confidence I say go for it.

>>51848 I don't think it will help OP much to think over that. It's already been layed out non trans people can relate as well. So if both do then it's back to square one. >>51860 East Asians are at an advantage there though. The bone structure between male and female is less varied than say a Western European.

OP -- consider that you don't *have* to be one or the other. You don't even have to tell people your gender. You should do things that make you feel more attractive and confident. However I warn against getting an idealized version of your feminine self in your head, because then you'll start comparing yourself to a possibly unattainable goal.

>>51819 A daily reminder that it's okay for a man to be feminine and for a woman to be a tomboy. PS: There is no such thing as "trans" people. These (mentally ill) people have a fetish that has taken over their lives. If anyone wants to, try proving otherwise

>>51819 It sounds like you're at the very beginning of exploring your gender identity. Perhaps the next step would be to try dressing up in private and finding scenarios where you can present as female without any risk to yourself IRL (the internet is the obvious example), then you can understand how it makes you feel, if you find the experience fulfilling (as though you've found a missing part of yourself) then that could be a strong indication. Assuming the above seeking psychiatric help would come next, ideally they should be able to help you rule out other reasons that could make you feel this way. If after all of that you felt that you wanted to go further then transitioning would probably be a good option. Something you should know regardless of how things go is that your expression is your own, and you shouldn't allow others to dictate to you or convince you to go down a certain path. Every person has their own gender identity even if they aren't trans. The journey is to discover what brings you closest to feeling right within yourself, that's what matters.

>>51867 >If anyone wants to, try proving otherwise what standards for proof could there be? There are trans/nonbinary people who are asexual, but if you're like most people who make that claim you are happy to simply claim they're lying, or that I'm lying, or that any evidence I could bring forward is not sufficient proof. In the presence of a challenge that cannot be overcome, and would require significant resources to engage with, we must conclude that the challenge exists in order to be a waste of time.

>>51869 >There are trans/nonbinary people who are asexual "Asexuality" isn't a real thing, nor is queer, their made up American-Anglo 20th century ideas, and this doesn't even prove your theory of "brainsex" because "Asexual" is a thing that is self professed; there's no "asexual test," where one needs to go through intensive psychosexual analysis to prove their lack of attraction, to receive an "Asexual Certification" anyone off the street can profess this label. Also people who are autoerotic don't have much desire to have "sex". >we must conclude that the challenge exists in order to be a waste of time. >Why don't you understand that topics regarding the Mind are relative, and I can make up any single sexual identity that I want, and as long as people on r/trans agree with my "identity" then it's a real thing and cannot be argued! This is just like religion, where you first invent God in your head, and since everyone has the same belief as you, you are not considered insane. The issue is that you people are intellectually dishonest. You refuse to admit this sexual fetish to even yourselves. I don't know if it's because of Judeo-Christian/Victorian values, which state that any sexual arousal is bad, and thus you people must cope and protect yourself in a web of deception and half-truths because you feel deep-seated shame. fuarrrk man, you don't fool someone like me who also has an autoerotic fetish, and has intimate knowledge of what goes on in that type of person's mind. This "omg it's totally not a fetish YOU HAVE NO PROOF" soykaf is setting us back hundreds of years, and your lies will eventually reveal themselves. We'll enter a new era where we go from extreme materialism and "sexed brains," to having more of a nuanced understanding of how the mind truly works, this gender bullshit is leftover baggage from a terrible past. We should be more open to people expressing their sexuality with others (of course with decency) through how we style our clothes, carry ourselves, speak, etc., sure. Our sexual fantasies, complexes, neuroses, are also an important part of our personal make up. But of course you people like to play to the audience of your middle-class, Judeo-Christian parents and ancestors, when if you were really "sexually liberated," you people would feel no shame in telling the truth about how you really feel. The current viewpoint is that all sexual behaviour is "normal," or at least sexual behaviour is "normal" if it doesn't hurt oneself or others (which cross-dressing doesn't). BDSM was also recently removed as a "mental illness," which includes your sissification fantasies. But honestly, what could I expect from a place like Lainchan?

>>51872 Like I said, any evidence will be dismissed as lying or made up. In any case, I do wonder how you think you can call yourself heterosexual if you've never gotten your heterosexuality certification.

>>51867 Transgender in the broad sense just means gender non conforming as in not being a walking talking stereotype of one's sex and also taking that on a level of self identification. This objectively exists no question. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, not that mental illnesses are shameful or anything. I dont see a reason gender dysphoria cant exist. It's similar to other kinds of mental illnesses and appears to possibly be from a malformed mental model of the body. Some people entirely lack a mental model of their body to where if they closed their eyes and try to take a step forward they fall to the ground because they cant sense their own body positioning.

>>51873 >heterosexual if you've never gotten your heterosexuality certification. I was trying to show how ridiculous your advocacy is, I wasn't trying to make a claim that "sexual identity certificates" need to be institutionalized. Also you just assume that I am "heterosexual" because I disagree with you, and you assume that I agree with the dogma that human beings can be truthfully categorized within strict "sexual desire" categories based on external sexual behaviour, which is an idea which is only ~200 years old. You and your people have the onus to prove the unequivocal existence of the categories that you use in your language. You pull soykaf out of your ass, and make up your own categorizations, and you think that you don't need to prove it "because everyone just says that I'm lying no matter what!" I wonder why... >>51874 >It's similar to other kinds of mental illnesses and appears to possibly be from a malformed mental model of the body. Things are classified as "mental illnesses" because American (mostly American, it's where the international mental health standards come from) society views it in a negative light. "Homosexuality" was a mental illness, because Victorian society didn't like it, but "homosexuality's" classification as a mental disorder was removed in 1973. It has nothing to do with whether or not there is a "brain malfunction" or whatever you think. That neuropsychological model of mental disorders is a cope by Americans to prove that their culture bound syndromes are somehow true to life (although most of them are probably true to life). >Some people entirely lack a mental model of their body to where if they closed their eyes and try to take a step forward they fall to the ground because they cant sense their own body positioning. This doesn't prove the existence of gender dysphoria, but it does prove the existence of a form of ataxia. It's impossible to prove that this ataxia you describe is caused by a "lack of bodily mental map" because we have no access to the minds of other people. Every transgendered thread on Lainchan. You don't need to actually argue or prove anything, you can just assume, and then threaten to sue to shut up people who disagree with you up. Life on easy mode.

>>51875 How mental illnesses have been criterized more recently is different from the past. In past there was more focus on deviance now it's more and more about distress, danger and dysfunction more about what an individual says is a problem for them. I am already aware of the flaws in psychology and it's misuse but you're exagerating some aspects. About your thing about asexual well it's tricky basically there actually is a spectrum of level of sexual desire ranging from no sexual desire to high sexual desire but it's not easy to really measure that directly because it's a state of qualia but there is several ways to look at the brain in several types of scams and take an educated guess aided by self reporting on top of it. Ataxia is the wrong word btw. Ataxia is about muscle movement which has nothing to do with what I was talking about and makes no sense so i dont know where you got that idea. I didnt say gender dysphoria is a lack of a body map rather it's a wrong map. If it was a lack gender dysphoric people would lack proprioception and fall over like i described which was actually just an explanation of part of what body maps do. Not sure why you feel a need to argue. Sure it is not well documented exactly what gender dysphoria even is supposed to be exactly on a neurological but that doesnt inherently mean something isn't going on at all and saying it's all fetish is a cop out without proper evidence.

>>51875 >I was trying to show how ridiculous your advocacy is What's ridiculous about just taking people at face value? >and you assume that I agree with the dogma that human beings can be truthfully categorized within strict "sexual desire" categories based on external sexual behaviour actually I assumed that because you said that, for the category "asexual" to be valid, you would have to be able to measure it objectively. >You pull soykaf out of your ass, and make up your own categorizations, and you think that you don't need to prove it If someone says they feel no sexual desire I can't think of *any* good reason to disbelieve them. Whether that puts them into the category "asexual" or not I don't care, although "asexual" is a very direct way of describing someone who is not sexual.

Could be your lack of confidence is leading to a type of cope. I honestly would talk to a professional if you could or a close friend.But If you think you'll be happier being a femboy then go for it.

>>51897 >I honestly would talk to a professional What the fuarrrk would a "professional" possibly do? OP probably lives in a plagued country where "gender conversion" is illegal, so he will probably be lied to by scum-fuarrrk doctors who are just going to try to sell him whatever chemical castration therapy makes big pharma the most money. A therapist or "professional" can't actually tell him the truth, these exhibitionists and sadists probably made it against the law in his country. This thread isn't even any help either, as it's filled with trannies who actually think that it's a logical argument to go "oh well you just say that we people lie anyway so there's no use in proving anything, but it's a totally real, objective, brain phenomenon!" fuarrrking jokes

>>51897 >I honestly would talk to a professional Or try to get therapy.

there is a subreddit called r/femboy where all that happens is femboys post selfies of themselves

>>51819 wtf is up with society trying to define hard gender roles? Lots of men shave their body hair, so much so that a woman even complimented the fact that I actually have body hair I'm too lazy to shave, and it never bothered me anyway That's not gay or trans I also like feminine clothes (not on myself, just think that clothes that accent body features look good) Unfortunately, men cannot really accessorize well, since most male clothing is either suits, sports apparel, or some combination of jeans. When I was younger, I used to think about how I have more feminine features, and I lost a lot of self respect because Gender roles in my society always favored the strong masculine, and not being built like chad meant you were relegated to being called gay or androgynous. I wasn't gay, and i'm not bi. I can find a man to be aesthetic, but I never wanted to actually get close or have any kind of physical contact with a man, and gay stuff grosses me out. Your feelings are valid, but you need to understand them in your own terms, not the ones society tells you "if you aren't CIS male chad bradington, then you must be LGBTQABCDEFG." I think what helped me understand my role was realizing that people come in all shapes and sizes, and some european men are perceived as gay because they have a forward fashion sense, or other cultures men shave their bodies (I was made fun of for being gross and not shaving my pubic hair once by people from a culture where people remove ALL body hair). Gender roles are cultural, but they don't make you gay or not gay. or trans or not trans. I was inspired by seeing skinny muscular martial artists or athletes, and small framed intellectuals, which more closely resembled myself, instead of deciding that I since im not a muscle bound chad, i am automatically destined to a life of crossdressing and trying to rationalize how I don't fit a stereotype. I often wear "skinny jeans" as people call them, because I am not fairly muscular. I also wear suits that accent my body features. I hate that LGBT took control of fashion in the media, so now women often try to befriend me thinking I'm gay (ive been friendzoned on first dates like 6-8 times because I was assumed gay)

>>51899 >"oh well you just say that we people lie anyway so there's no use in proving anything, but it's a totally real, objective, brain phenomenon!" fuarrrking jokes if you're referring to the previous conversation we had, you will notice that I never once claimed that there was any "real or objective brain phenomenon", and I certainly never used the strawman argument you have constructed.

Do you have a strong male role model in your life?

>>51819 Cis people don't wish they were the opposite gender anon. I think you've answered your own question, whether you want to transition or not is up to you.

Why do trans people - who notice that gender is an arbitrary social construct that they do not fit into - react to that realisation by becoming obsessed with defining themselves within that social construct rather than simply disregarding it?

>>51945 They are just modern age emos attention whoring with looks because they got nothing else going. Another example is kids who started smoking just to get a group to hang out with.

>>51945 Lots of trans people describe themselves as genderfluid, so I don't see what your point is.

>>51899 Not saying your wrong about big pharma and all that But I do think they should at least talk to a close friend. It sounds more like a confidence thing,maybe depression. But if he thinks being a femboy will make him happy I wont get in his way.

>>51932 He is just angry and an idiot spouting nonsense against made up arguments

>>51956 I hope you retain this stance on all other life ruining decisions, such as other forms of self-harm, drug use, suicide, gambling, alcohlism, sex with blue waffle owner, etc.

>>51958 I do it case by case basis and alot of those aren't really a fair comparison. That's why I said maybe talk to a psychiatrist. Or at the very least do some deeper personal reflection.

>>51943 >Cis people don't wish they were the opposite gender But they do. It's a grass greener on other side sort of thing. There is a difference between wanting to go through HRT along with piss poor surgery and wishing one was born a different way.

>>51819 Sounds like you have depression. I suggest taking chamomile capsules or talk to a psychiatrist about mild antidepressants. This image about sex chromosomes, not body chromosomes, explains why you are femboy at most but not trans.

>>51972 Chamomile has anticholinergic effects causing negative cognitive effects.

>>51943 I think the want to be the opposite gender is a byproduct of the natural and inherent attraction to the opposite sex; talking to a small sample of friends I have all the more reason to believe this. Another aspect has to be the novelty of being different, many (me included) like specific foreign languages simply because they are not part of the one or two one was brought up with. Also OP >I felt attractive for once in my life are you sure you're not just dressing yourself up in a way makes it attractive to yourself because that is how you would want to see your partner be dressed? To make it abundantly clear, nothing wrong with how you dress, just an interesting thought.

The majority of modern day transgenders are not legitimately transgender as the older definition would be understood, but have been convinced by others online that they are. "Born this way" isn't the case for 99% of modern ones. >>51943 post like these you see most typically from groomers convincing teens going through puberty that its a race against the clock and they ARE transgender and need to act FAST, "that's the source of your depression and confusion" etc. Some say its recruitment into a cult of death and despair. But on the flipside, if you're a reclusive loser who wont be judged, hrt is not a big deal whether or not you're trans. Your stomach gets fatter, your chest gets fatter, you stop being so greasy and possibly horny, your skin gets softer. Plus what someone else in the thread said. if you feel masculinization is a source of anguish, you'd be putting a halt to it. I've known males to take E/AA along with others using similar concoctions to get the same effects purely for feminine aesthetic purposes. Unless the thought of ugly tanner stage 2,3,4 breasts repulses you, or you want to be a normal father one day, just do it and see how it feels.

>>51958 >self-harm, drug use, suicide, >We LITERALLY die if people don't do fetish role plays with us! >I will kill myself by taking Melatonin/Antihistimines/cutting if you don't bend to my every whim! Normal people don't react this way when things don't go their way. A young child learns that they cannot have everything that they want, and that other people around them have limits on the bullshit that they're willing to tolerate. Do it tranny, try killing yourself by swallowing a whole bottle of Advil, or SSRIs, because people say "mean things" Online, see what happens. >>51975 >"Born this way" isn't the case for 99% of modern ones. No transgender is "born this way," that's a lie based off of a faulty understanding of Neuropsychology, "it's like basically the brain I was born with". Even in the past, crossdressers and admittant fetishists could get sex change surgeries, too, they just had to perform well as women for 2 years, and not cause issues for other people. The dichotomy of Gender Dysphoria isn't a real thing, it's not a clear criteria. Of course in the past, only feminine gay men could perform femininity well, so they were the majority of surgery candidates, but it had nothing to do with whether or not they were "truly gurls on da inside," they were just so feminine people couldn't easily tell, and they didn't cause discomfort in others. They were also mostly young adults, so they didn't destroy the lives of their wives and kids with their fetish roleplay. The "modern ones" are the new hipster, the new goth, they're just playing the next game that middle-class, Judeo-Christian raised "rebels" want to play. Now they're adding communism into the mix too, an ideology which is directly opposed to their (supposed) consumer fetish subculture, what the fuarrrk is going on? >convincing teens going through puberty that its a race against the clock and they ARE transgender and need to act FAST I am 100% convinced now that these groomers convincing teens (and children) with crossdressing tendencies to transition and take estrogen are full-on sadistic pedophiles. Deciding whether or not someone wants to deal with their crossdressing fetish with gender transition is something that an adult with a clear head, who understands the fetish subcultures, should work out. I would have felt violated if an adult came up to me and started coaching me on my fetish, something I could barely understand.

I like to go on r/doipass r/transgender and r/transpass and post pictures of cute looking women so I make trannies there get a bit self-conciouss about how masculine they look tell me how based I am

>>51982 Dangerously based. Have a (you).

>>51821 >It turns out autistic people are less attached to their sex and the role they "should" play in the society. The high correlation between autism and trannies (both genders) is because weak theory of mind means they don't understand that what they find attractive is not the same as what the people they are attracted to find attractive.

These threads always bring out the armchair psychologists (Kruger and Dunning would be so proud), godspeed to all of you, the world should dance with glee that you aren't practicing medical professionals.

Thread got hijacked by transgender talk for some reason huh. OP try not to be naive and immediately think up categories. By the sound of it you just feel more confident, that's all there is to go on in this discussion. Did you attach a toxic macho body image to your confidence and are you letting go of said burnt-in image by shaving? Could that explain the confidence boost? Does it perhaps reinforce your confidence in your sexuality? Also >>51938

>>51993 here's a (you) that you crave so much