Freedom of thought

Everywhere I look, I see illusions and deceptions. I've started looking deeply into things from our day-to-day live and I feel like average humans are like cats following a laser point. Yes, we all are free to stop and do whatever we want, but what we want is not something coming from within us. Tastes, opinions, thoughts and even feelings are skillfully placed within us. We never had a truly free will, but I feel like now there really is nothing left of it. We cracked how the human psyche works and now we are being programmed to behave the way powerful people want us to behave. Humanity has become a very efficient machine. I know that's nothing really new, but the more I really inform myself, the more I see how much we are being tricked. It's a little bit frightening for me, because I don't really know who I can trust. The worst thing is, I can't talk about it with (almost) anyone. Everyone is happy the way things are and afraid of change. Everyone thinks, that they have a free will. They don't want to hear such things and I can even understand. Why bother? It's more relaxing and fun, to skroll through social media, eat fast food and party every weekend. There are no downsides, so why should anyone stop? Is it even possible to become free?

PS: Can anyone recommend a place to talk about this?

>>51650 >There are no downsides, so why should anyone stop? are you even aware of the mental health crisis striking norm1es from every social class in every country (specially developed ones)?

>>51651 With your family and friends, friends in real life.

>>51653 Well I am extremely lucky to have a gf having the same opinions. Usually females are more "bluepilled" regarding this topic. I just want to do something, to change something and it's not possible to archieve alone.

>Humanity has become a very efficient machine. Take a look around bud. You really think anything about this world is "efficient"? >Everyone is happy the way things are Also simply incorrect. Most people hate it.

>>51654 >Usually females are more "bluepilled" regarding this topic. true, but if they're smart enough you can inform them easily. I usually build relationships with women with very similar interests and cosmovision as me. If you wanna create a change you can write a book, become a communicator and try to influence as many people as possible, you have the media.

>>51650 Early adopters are better people in that regard. A product life cycle is: 1. create good product 2. make it popular 3. lower quality to increase profit cashing out on mass market early adopters will drop out but npc masses will buy cause popular = good. So while the unwashed masses are steered by popularity the rise and initial decision lies with people who have a higher mental capacity to make decisions.

>>51656 >Most people hate it. I see a lot of hate on the internet, but almost everyone I know irl is sharing the opinion, that the benefits of todays society outweigh the problems. They think that there is no other way to achieve todays technology, modern medicine and food availability. They see no problems with privacy because the have "nothing to hide" and think that advertising techniques have no control over them.

>>51656 The economy keeps improving, most people work white collar jobs and don't have to break their backs just to make a living, information is freely available at the touch of a button b-b-but somehow that's bad.

>>51657 You are actually right. There is no use in knowing without doing anything and hoping for some change. I always hoped for a total collapse, but now I understand that it's a foolish way of thinking.

>>51665 Just stop being such a doomboy and socialize. You DO have a twitter account right lainon? You're not some sort of weirdo without social media right?

>>51664 Sadly wrong, economy is getting worse since ~60s. You got new tech toys and that is commonly mistaken as progress for the entire economy but you live now in a rat cage barely affording rent while back then people bought houses with gas station jobs.

>>51666 Twitter is useless unless you wish to advertise your product. The only meaningful interaction is hustling, otherwise its just burning time screaming at each other. Might as well do something more enjoyable and watch more anime if you aint trying to make bank.

>>51668 Do you unironically think your peasant ancestors had it any easier than you? Stop being ungrateful for what the corporations've given you, sweet. You'll never be drawn hung and quartered, you'll never be uncomfortable, you will be happy, and never protest. Aren't rising obesity rates a good thing? They prove that people aren't at a risk of any famines.

>>51670 >Do you unironically think your peasant ancestors had it any easier than you Not him, but yes. I want simple things, I can't do most of those things as they are illegal. If I were to do those things, I would go to federal prison. So, I refrain as the risk outweighs the reward. Whereas my ancestors could do the majority of the things I would like to do. >inb4 but you use computers and stuff I do not like computers "and stuff". The only thing I benefit from today is affordable books for my personal library.

>>51671 Absolutely retarded take. You really want to go back to a time where getting an infection meant amputation and your teeth'd rot and fall out while you slept in a fuarrrking stable?

>>51672 >infection meant amputation Do you even know what natural remedies are? >your teeth'd rot and fall out This can already still happen >slept in a fuarrrking stable? Did you just pick one part of the world and decide everyone is from there? Not everyone is a filthy anglo-saxon.

>>51673 I have very old herbalism books that deal with making tinctures and pastes that can deal with tooth problems, infections, etc. People have a very warped view of the past. There are people who still believe the "people died at the average age of 30" to mean "you barely made it past 30", but infants dying was a major issue. Honestly, once you made it past like age 12 or 13, you were not very likely to die from anything fuarrrked up... and those old guys were living well into their 80's.

>>51674 >>51673 Let me guess, you two use glasses or something? Wear clothes made with synthetic materials? Companies have done more for the human race than any of you two ever will. Why don't you stop fighting this.. retarded urge to live a "simple" life. A misremembered ghost of the past that NEVER existed. You really think modern toothpastes and medicines are beatable by soykafty herbal remedies made by cave-people? No, not at all. Watch some amazon jungle tribe treat a cancer. They won't be able to.

>>51672 An infection can still mean RIP. You live in meme land out of sheer ignorance and think everything only gets better.

>>51676 Just take antibiotics? Are you stupid or something?

>>51677 i dont think he trusts antibiotics, and prefers magic crystals.

>>51674 >Life expectancy by world region, from 1770 to 2018

>>51677 As said you dont understand how soykaf works. People still get infections IN the hospital from contamination getting operated and lose leg functionality. I have to deal with a patient like that who now is in wheelchair. And because its more profitable the papers vanished and he aint getting soykaf in payout for damages. As said you live in meme land divorced from reality.

>>51679 >>51674 See? As the GDP of a country goes up, so does life expectancy. Neoliberalism is a good thing.

>>51680 >People still get infections >still >stil Mostly in failed states like in africa and the united states. People in real countries barely ever die from infections. >you live in meme land divorced from reality youre projecting so hard, my dude.

>>51681 >GDP it has nothing to do with gdp and everything to do with education and scientific reaseach, and GDP has nothing to do with neoliberalism. Did you know that china, a not-neoliberal country also has a gdp? shocking i know

>>51683 China's GDP is low as hell for its population size. If they had a free market system the people would be freer and they would adopt progressive ideals.

>>51682 hes crippled not dead so he wouldnt even count into your statistic. See you cant even get basic soykaf right.

>>51684 >China's GDP is low as hell for its population size. its GDP per capita is fairly middle of the pack, comparable to Brazil or Ukraine. >>51663 Most people I talk to on a regular basis are aware that their rights are being violated. They're often just so beaten down that they accept it. >>51664 >most people work white collar jobs and don't have to break their backs just to make a living many white collar jobs quite literally do break your back from bad posture. Meanwhile you spend 8 hours a day in a distraction-filled environment and extremely artificial social interactions. I have worked basic ass manual labor jobs where I mostly had to hump soykaf around and I liked it a lot more than being a basic ass white collar worker, I got paid better too. Also, most people can only get reliable work doing demeaning service-oriented tasks, if at all.

>>51675 >you two use glasses No. >Wear clothes made with synthetic materials I've switched to 100% cotton / linen over the years. >>51678 I'm not that guy but garlic, tea, honey are just some natural anti-biotics. >>51679 Now remove young children that died from birth complications and SIDS from the average.

gdp is a soykaf metric, you can inflate it by paper pushing. Also real unemployment & income inequality is another point for the casket.

>>51687 You cannot reliably live off the grid. Your descendants will inevitably forget modern knowledge about electricity and medicine. Then your history and stories. It's best to stay in a wordl where you can still get a GOOD proper education.

>>51689 native australians retained stories for over 4000 years from a geological catastrophe back then. The trick is whole group constantly retells and checks for consistency. Same principle as RAID system for hard drives. There is a publication on that because they verified the stories to be true and then started checking how the hell they managed to keep the story alive so long.

>>51690 Native australians are literally all in favelas and sniff gasoline. Not a bastion of culture.

>>51691 You are wrong anon. Return to your basket weaving forum.

It was long long LONG time ago when I started questioning things around me like you OP. I can't tell you how much factual stories and half provable conspiracy theories I could talk to your ear about of. It is unbelievable. But what I could tell you right now is that THAT part of my life is behind me. For well over a decade of my life I was in this world but now I have found myself to see through the lies instaneously, firstly because I stopped lying to myself COMPLETELY and started licing the life of truth. I am closer to the truth about life now more than ever, and if you think that people are mean to you now because you point out the blatant hypocrisy and lies (because they want to stay in their bubble) then that is nothing compared to what they will try to do to you if you peacefully rebel. Road ahead of you is treatcherous and filled with hardships, but truth is well worth it if you hold it out the longest and don't concern yourself with lies that you tell yourself.

>>51650 >but I feel like now there really is nothing left of it. We cracked how the human psyche works and now we are being programmed to behave the way powerful people want us to behave. Eh, I used to believe this but I genuinely don't believe there's some coherent way they do that. What modern brainwashing does, like all the brainwashing before going to the witch hunts or everyone being suspected for being a communist spy is simply create irrational fear. But that's not coherent. It's just paranoia that might or might not go your direction. It's what social media does, by feeding everyone information that is most likely to enrage them, it doesn't control them directly, but just make people mad. Maybe not even make them mad in itself, but simply makes these emotions stronger. I believe if social media stopped existing we wouldn't have that much of a different world all things considered. The good news though is that once you know the trick, with enough determination, a calm mind and will power. All which aren't flawless but can be trained, you can escape this hellhole. And once you do, you can think of ways to get other people out of it. But remember it has to be something people care about. An average person has lot of soykaf to deal with, and he won't stop using facebook just because it spies on them if he relies on it for work or to keep up with his friends. It's kinda like a fish trap in that sense, it's very easy to swim with the current and get into a trap, but once you want to leave there's so much resistance to deal with you can't "just leave it". And that isn't a line of thought that only social media/big tech use, but that's how even people get in terrorist groups or gangs. Once you get there, there are thousand of things to make sure leaving it is difficult. You need to provide some good alternative because otherwise there is no way out that will work on a mass scale.

>>51691 wtf you talking about, they made the best TV series ever

>>51666 Well social media is simply the biggest trickery out there. It's addictive, shapes your opinion (I don't think so high of myself to believe that I am resistant to that), injects you with feeliings and wastes very precious time. And then everyone wonders, why they are so dissatisfied with their life. >>51668 >>51670 >>51675 >>51682 So what you are talking about is exactly my point. It may be all a big deception. Nobody knows how the time was back then. Our elders say it was better, but everyone thinks that the world was better, when they were young. We simply decide to believe that people in other countries all have it worse than us. We believe that the past was worse. On the surface life expectancy, peace and food seem to be a good thing, but is it really good for us? For the human condition? I can't say for sure what is right or wrong. I believe that one has to travel and see the world with their own eyes to build a real opinion on that. >>51693 I think that I just scrapped the top of the iceberg with a little spoon. Thanks, Lainanon, you kinda gave me determination to continue.

>>51688 There has to be a point when people realize this is happening and revolt, right?

>>51670 You know, I'm not convinced this is the case. Sure, we have many more modern solutions to old problems like disease and famine, but that doesn't make modern life better automatically. There is no way anyone can even compare total suffering at those two very different time periods and depending on your metric of better it's either or. We consider peasant life akin to slavery, but it might be more comparable to today than we might think. Some serfs didn't have the right to leave their lord's fief, true. Serfs could change their lord however (like we can with our companies). They can become wealthy enough to become their own lord (like we can with self-employment and starting a business). They could escape to towns, even lawfully when their lords mistreated them (like we can, we call it refuge/asylum/immigration). That's already unexpected for a lot of people (me included). David Graeber even makes a point in "bullshit jobs" that serfs had more freedom in how they do their job. While today we trade our time, with our superiors often maximizing how much of our time they can get (we do trade our time for money after all), serfs had a more irregular lifestyle. Work usually peaked and intensified during harvest season or when the next harvest had to be prepared, but there were just as well periods where nothing much had to be done. Nothing much by modern standards, going by the consistently crazy long workday. A serf had to show results not document how much time he invested. Their lords also didn't care if a serf drank during the job, where water wasn't clean drinking alcohol was actually preferable to drinking water because of diseases. And my last point, it's true that there was less food being produced, but there was less people to feed. We have mass starvation even today, even though we are supposed to have a global economy and enough food to feed the world. Some food for thought at least, as a counterpoint to your (in my opinion somewhat reductive) argument. How do we know if we are really more free today? Great thread OP by the way.

>>51706 Food quality would be another point. Fridges aside modern seeds build solely for higher yield are garbage in terms of quality to old sorts. Lower vitamin & mineral content and also 5x more allergens in wheat which spawned the gluten intolerance people. You can still experience the old way. I visited a poor country where they still farm the old style and dont even have pesticides due to being dirt poor and you can literally taste it's so much better.

>The worst thing is, I can't talk about it with (almost) anyone. Everyone is happy the way things are and afraid of change. Everyone thinks, that they have a free will. They don't want to hear such things and I can even understand. I so feel you there, i have a few people, im lucky to have that i can talk to about this, but its not pretty and most people will just ignore or even ridicule you if you bring up any critique. >Why bother? It's more relaxing and fun, to skroll through social media, eat fast food and party every weekend. There are no downsides, so why should anyone stop? This is what irks me the most, i cant understand why people keep going, what they are doing is pure soykaf to be honest. Most people go around with their fancy cars and eat this crap food then smoke a jay and get drunk watching football here. Frankly its sad just how out of all the things we could be doing stuff like cars and football are like the peak of civilization for most, they dont give a soykaf about art or stuff like that. Its like they follow the most boring and simple routine as possible almost, i cant understand how they can do this. Even when im alone and bored i have a better time than when being around such people. Its not even the lack of sophistication given the alternatives that confuse me, but the degree by which most people seem to endulge in it, its like their entire lifes are based around meaningless simple group hype routine. Even taking drugs and watching the sun set has 100x more novelty than watching some dudes kick a ball. I think its more sad than outrages and reflects the mentality of people as a whole so deeply it just makes me more sad than angry how deep in a hole we are in so many ways. >>51668 Tesla said there is a difference between technology and progress, too bad nobody listened to him. >>51698 Not wanting to drift off but looking at this covid bullshit has convinced me people will never stand up or take responsiblity of any kind, they will just keep sucking up daddy states soykaf and pray for more state control. >>51707 Everyone that honestly believes industry produced food is good has never had fresh self grown food. The stuff you buy at the store is soykaf, not only that but you pay comparatively much for it and theres a whole chain of bullshit you support trough that. Theres just nothing better than having your own food right outside the door fresh to pick. Not to mention most people live in small gray concrete blocks alone drinking beer every night until they pass out. Its horrifying how lifeless, literally, modern life is and its just getting way worse from my observation. Nobody is going to tell me that our souls arent getting sucked up by the system.

Also why does satou wear a shirt that says "dick" in russian?

>>51689 >Your descendants will inevitably forget modern knowledge about electricity and medicine. The fuarrrk should anyone have kids for? Us as a species have failed evolution and advanced technology is going to take our place whether we want that or not. I just wanna be away from all the bullshit until I die.

>>51697 >you kinda gave me determination to continue I am glad I could help. If you have any questions surely I am willing to help you. t. pic related one of my areas of studies, although I do not worship Lucifer at all I find it fascinating that a lot of prominent and powerful people do

>>51689 What percentage of people living on the grid today have modern knowledge about electricity? What percentage of people living in the city have knowledge of their own history and stories, compared to those in the country? >It's best to stay in a wordl where you can still get a GOOD proper education. Maybe 10-15% of people today are getting a good proper education. The rest are just being held in a building away from society until they turn 18 so they can get a menial job that requires no more than a 6th grade education, or go on welfare or become a debt slave or go to prison. Going off grid is preferable to these scenarios, and most people aren't planning for the descendants to stay there for the rest of eternity, either. The degenerate core will eventually have to be refreshed by vital blood from the periphery, a tale as old as time. >>51650 Read old books and make new friends, I guess. >>51693 I've realized that 99% people can't do this alone. And for most of that group, the isolation caused by "awakening" yourself is feeding back into the system. It is way better to lean into relationships with your family, friends, church, or neighbors even if you think they're sheep, than to sever them in order to be anonymously based online. >>51698 No, they will just cover up declining living standards with environmentalism and distract any popular movements with identity politics.

>>51675 Watch some modern city tribe treat a cancer, where they inject sick people with poison that makes their hair fall out and make them vomit all over the place. Where they put people in a coma so they aren't awake to deal with the pain of all the other drugs they shoot them up with. Where they can't accept death so they spend their family's inheritance to get 6 months of poor quality extra life with half of it spent in the hospital. Yeah, sounds great.

I truely wonder how it is possible to be world wide connected through the internet and still find ZERO people to form a lasting group of common interests. The plain and simple number of people being online world wide at any given second and the ZERO positive experience in finding and keeping like minded people is absolutely mind boggeling to me. The freedom of thought was completely destroyed by a virtual thumbs up.

how the fuarrrk did the whole world become less social by being hypothetically fully connected at any given moment?

>>51861 They exist, now why would people like that go on forums bragging? What you see in these threads is the selfselected outlier complaining not the norm. I got various groups for different hobbies and im quite glad they exist on the net because it would be impossible to find peers on fringe soykaf like fractal geometry and higher math irl among my regular social circle. >>51698 Attempts simply got squashed. i.e germany we had a bunch of ex bankers and economists who came up with a plan and tried to form a party. Media smeared them as nazis on the single point thhat they also wanted to control immigration better and it was rip. It's that easy. The problem is npcs are easily steered by media and media is controlled by those already in control. The other side is if you're smart enough to understand all of this you're probably also smart enough to be already well off. Now why would you risk yourself to save the npc? Its a better choice to do nothing and watch them drown as the tide of inflation hits them first.

>>51865 >because it would be impossible to find peers on fringe soykaf like fractal geometry and higher math irl among my regular social circle. this is why college math departments exist.

>>51865 >The other side is if you're smart enough to understand all of this you're probably also smart enough to be already well off. Now why would you risk yourself to save the npc? Those who care for wealth or longevity won't. Not all of us are bound by these shackles, however.

>>51870 As if every college offers everything, everyone has their topic and little interest into divulging your special flavor if its not theirs. You will get different results going to different colleges. With the net yo can get any fringe topic straight from the people specialized in it. >>51882 You still didn't justify why one should save them. Dumbfucks would rather shoot the messenger than listen and they are even less inclined to make the slightest effort for change. The way people vote already says it all. Oh we know they are corrupt and fuarrrked us over but other parties wont win anyway so im voting for them again. Cattle deserves no better.

University campus was my first local attempt to find people of common interest to be peer with. Turns out everybody is in there for passing tests by learning the demanded answers, then forgetting all of it immediately afterwards. It was kind of a next level npc experience to see people of higher education without real interest and ambition of their own.

>>51862 Because they connect to machines and algorithms and data, not to other beings. >>51870 The problem being not all people are college kids, universities are pretty much closed clubs. Also i hate the academic culture and would stay away from anything mainstream or government associated. >>51889 >You still didn't justify why one should save them. Dumbfucks would rather shoot the messenger than listen and they are even less inclined to make the slightest effort for change. The way people vote already says it all. Oh we know they are corrupt and fuarrrked us over but other parties wont win anyway so im voting for them again. Cattle deserves no better. This right there, the worst part is that they dont want to change. The smartzombies love how things are, i used to believe they just did that because they were forced to, but after watching people i realized how wrong i was. This fecal expulsion they call human civilization is just how they love it, if you try to rock the boat in any way they jump you! Its amazing how retarded these people are, i mean its like watching someone run against a brick wall over and over each time with more force in hopes it will break. >>51891 University being a social club to score good jobs later is nothing new, the lack of ambition or sincerety to learn is deeply seeded in people, they are proud to be dumb even and always thing someone else will come and wipe their asses. >everybody is in there for passing tests by learning the demanded answers, then forgetting all of it immediately afterwards. Its sad to see how uni basically turned to being school, but school already being basically there to churn out flesh robots, its obvious it would go that way.

>>51862 because most of the interpersonal communication between people happens on non-verbal plane, which can't be read off of a screen

>>51650 There is no escape from an illusion world within the illusion world, OP. Either some few anons destroy this soykaf and build a little bit more real world (which won't happen) or we build a world for ourselves and prove that individuals have actual power. If people start doing this (hopefully they won't), the ruling class will show it's true face. >the worst thing is, I can't talk about it with (almost) anyone Damn right you can't. Talking to "physical people" will just make you look bad, and in this world most people only respect/consider/acknowledge people who looks good, normal, according to rule, etc, because they put all their mistrust in the wrong place. There is no actual niche outside of mainstream, other than some anons in the internet. Out there, they are never identifiable, like subculture was some time ago. We are in a moment where any dose of sensible honest thought can be catastrophic (for the one expressing it), unfortunately. >humanity has become a very efficient machine. Yes, we're in the middle of a war on consciousness and this is an achievement for civilization. We (historically speaking) asked for it, because we were fooled into ideology and propaganda. Nothing in the current world is supposed to seem nice to anyone. It's supposed do be and look depressing, terrible and accelerated and we are supposed to accept it (and enforce it, if you're a norm1e) without even knowing it, because we are force fed with psyops bullshit from all sides. The only way out is to make resistance out of your own habits, we are truly alone now and it's OK, because we knew this was going to happen. It was no use warning people then, it's less of a use to do it now. Enjoy your loneliness. It is noble. And your female ain't going to last long if you resist, keep that in mind.

>>51892 >>51891 >>51889 you misunderstand me; I'm saying that the reason why college math departments exist is because mathematicians wanted to hang out and do math all day. They struck a Faustian bargain with the government allowing them to do that as long as they teach engineers calculus. Also, I hate to say it, but fractal geometry and "higher math" (whatever that is) is way more mainstream than what most professional mathematicians do. You've probably barely scratched the surface.

>>51961 "higher math" is afaik the official term for math taught at university to distinguish from school math. And i would consider fractals pretty niche. Everyone likes to mention fractals but nobody really invests a lot of time in fractal spaces and designing fractal functions during regular education. Now i like to also point at "regular social circle" - one of my friends has a math degree but i can easier convince him to go skydiving than do math together. Literally took less effort to have him jump out of a plane at 4k altitude than trying to pull out something math related from him. Now compare online - you don't even have to talk to people, you can find people posting /publishing what you want.

>>51962 >"higher math" is afaik the official term for math taught at university to distinguish from school math. idk if it's "official" but I suppose that is a valid category. >Everyone likes to mention fractals but nobody really invests a lot of time in fractal spaces and designing fractal functions during regular education. But most people have heard about it, and chaos theory (the field where most fractals come from) is often taught at the undergraduate level. It was also a huge craze at the research level in the 60s and 70s, reaching far outside mathematics. Salvador Dali drew a painting of a Swallowtail catastrophe. Most PhD theses are on subjects so arcane that most professional mathematicians aren't familiar with them. >one of my friends has a math degree but i can easier convince him to go skydiving than do math together. then your friend probably wouldn't ever be hired at a math department. >Now compare online - you don't even have to talk to people, you can find people posting /publishing what you want. you can learn more in 30 minutes talking to an expert than

>>51963 *than spending a week reading