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I feel like programming and anything software related is fake. I'm currently doing webdev and I hate it. When I think about it, I have this feeling toward anything computer related. What is this feeling? Should I push through it? What is a "real" job? Idk, I feel being a carpenter or auto mechanic might be good... idk. I've tried some language teaching before. I hate that too.

I really love programming and it still is like kicking dead whales down the beach sometimes, I imagine it is an absolute hell for people who don't like it to begin with. This push to get people programming as a pure money focused career regardless of what they like doing is going to have bad consequences.

they push it simply to have more supply than demand which would allow to kill wages.

>>48531 I can't imagine a programmer who hates programming being an overall benefit to an organization rather than a slow poison whose joyless compliance brings technical debt to insane new heights. As a big picture conspiracy to begin with it seems very stupid of them.

>>48532 They still hire the best. But statistically the more go through the training the better the selection and the higher the pressure. If theres only 1 good programmer i have no option other than paying what you demand. If i can get more smart people into programming and get 10 people to apply to me, i can threaten you if you don't take my pay i take the other guy and you can find a walmart job. Also there are the social justice demands. Cali for example requires you to diversity hire. You already know how many women are interested in being a codemonkey -almost none. So youre fuarrrked either way. If you can trick more into it for #feminism you might at least have some choice not taking bottom of the barrel.

>>48527 >When I think about it, I have this feeling toward anything computer related. What is this feeling? It sounds like you just need to research how the code you write benefits people and brings in money for the company. The reason software jobs are especially high paying is because you are effectively teaching a computer how to do a thing that would take dozens or hundreds of humans to do.

webdev is particularly soul crushing Lain, that's how you're supposed to feel.

>>48532 >I can't imagine a programmer who hates programming being an overall benefit to an organization rather than a slow poison whose joyless compliance brings technical debt to insane new heights. Im a hopeless neet that never worked, but having tried pityfully for jobs and talked to professional programmers, i cant think why i would spend more of my time behind a screen. If the economy doesnt totally collapse, the only thing ill bother with is as gardner, even then it would piss me off all had to do was cut grass n soykaf. Also obviously i dont fit in with any mainstream establishment. I also sort of had trial jobs for electronics and electric crap of all sorts, outdoor field electrician is far better than being in some locked factory and having to stick in cables to industrial rail system whatever bullshit electronics switching crap. The worst is the culture, most of the time they have that bullshit radio on with the insuferable crap or talk about them soykaf in the news, fuarrrk all that.

>>48543 >i cant think why i would spend more of my time behind a screen. The big advantage of software as a career is that you don't need any special equipment or environment. There is basically no difference between what you do at work and what you can do at home with github. If you feel like your career is behind you can sacrifice evenings and weekends on open source projects to sharpen your skills and catchup/overtake coworkers.

>>48543 >Gardener >Only cut grass n sheiit It's actually much more than that. I work as a personal gardener for a family, and I tend to fruit trees, plant or remove flowers and bushes, cut and trim bushes and hedges... It's a lot of diverse work, and I get to breathe fresh air and work physically to stay fit. It's a good job, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. >>48527 Being tied to a job nowadays is pretty soul crushing in general. Doing the same thing every day is absolutely soykafty. Car mechanic and carpenter are trades, and they require adaptation and doing different projects everyday, and it takes a lot of different skills. Try learning some entry level skills like welding or grinding for metalworkers, or carving and cutting for woodworking. Get to know these things, to understand if you enjoy them.

It's because most modern software development is playing around in 30+ years of tech debt. Get a embedded/other engineering adjacent job, there it's not _that_ bad.

>>48553 [_] Easy work [_] High salary Pick one. If you want money then jobs that are horrible or difficult or involve rare skills are what you want to run towards.

Yep. If you go to bio/med or chem, you will see that commercial programming is not that relevant. In med, there is preventive medicine which is not done and is higher priority. In environment, studying and engineering a devices for observing and collecting data on something, etc. It can save lives while commercial programming is mostly for profit, it is unlikely you work on a necessary for loving service. And yes, even growing food is more relevant since food is required for living. >>48532 It is not hating, programming is a tool and the problem is what problems do you solve with the tool. How you spend your life, what for? Specially it is insane like, you know working 8+ hours/day on something that irrelevant, but you are tired like you work on something super relevant. >>48540 It is likely the problem was solved a few times already.

>>48554 Well yes, but there is a difference between jobs that are difficult because of sociologial reasons (playing around in tech debt, that accumulated because redoing things cleanly is not sociologically possible), and jobs that are difficult for reasons related to the problem like original research

>>48554 Are you a teen? Anyone with any work experience knows very well that that is a load of soykaf. High education = easy job = high wage. Low education = hard job = low wage. This is almost a universal truth.

>>48616 your vision is capped at medium jobs in the city. Top job for max money isnt easy. 60h+ office creates health issues likewise even if its less risky than hard labor. Classic example is finance sector. On the other hand oil rig or merc pays better than most office jobs at low education because most arent willing to fuarrrk off to a remote place and risk their ass.

>>48616 Nah it only goes so far.

>>48616 >taking soykafhead's orders is hard >cleaning the rekt soykafter at a pub is hard >stocking shelves is hard >making a pizza is hard >scanning items and offering protection plans is hard >picking up object A and bringing it to location B is hard What drivel is this...?

>>48628 The hard part is not quitting because you get treated like dirt.

>>48608 >there is a difference between jobs that are difficult because... It's just supply and demand. The less people who are available, capable and willing to do the job, then the more money they have to offer to get someone. So complaining that a job is hard or unpleasant is backwards thinking. You're not working for fun. >>48616 >Everyone who disagrees with me must be inexperienced and stupid. Good luck with that attitude. >>48555 >It is likely the problem was solved a few times already. Why do you think something has to be new to be worthwhile. A website is advertising and selling products to thousands of people everyday. How much would it cost to hire human salesmen to run around cities doing the same thing? Slightly more than it costs to hire some nerds with glasses to churn out PHP.

Reality as people in general understand is an abstract compound made of societal material. What the fuark is fact, Lain? It's all made of thinking about bullcrap. Everything is made of reasoning about human anxiety. What are things made of? Programming after all is a beautiful substract, emerged of human thinking, making machines talk and do bulldoodie things for us. Imagine making fuarrrking network sockets that after all makes people talk to each other in distance. You're missing all the benefits of computer programs because modernity has absolutely crapped over everything that's cool, because of a cultural absurd diahrrea, of whatever the hell soft soykafting is called nowadays.

>>48670 >. Imagine making fuarrrking network sockets that after all makes people talk to each other in distance. Without the internet I would not have ever been in the circumstances to meet some of my closest friends; don't blame the technology for its misusage by others, especially when everyone doesn't misuse it.

>>48671 So why don't you thrive about the process of doing it, friend? I guess that's the core of programming. Assuming that you don't thrive on that of course.

>>48670 fuarrrking this right there. >>48671 >don't blame the technology for its misusage by others, especially when everyone doesn't misuse it. So true, but you cant help hating technology when you see all the crap thats being done with it. Its utterly sick how the "infinite growth" model is being applied to software. Everything is fuarrrking comercialized bullshit for the sake of making bullshit, instead of exploring new venues for art and such we have a army of overrational codemonkeys who love to suck the big code cock. Even with all the hardware and software available, most is just useless surface level applications. I love computers and programming, but seeing how soykaf stuff turned out in the last 10/20 years makes me wanna smash every electronic appliance. Its not all bad, but most just is and so many morons love it, its headed in such a terrible direction, not at all where its supposed to go.

>>48711 movement -> biz -> racket everything follows this

>>48527 >What is a "real" job? Idk, I feel being a carpenter or auto mechanic might be good... idk. I dropped out of a compsci degree because i felt the same way as you and became an electrician, my life has never been better. You need something physical because your body will effect your brain. Sitting at a computer writing code is soul destroying whereas crafting things with your hands is wonderful

>>48763 Do you have any kind of roadmap? What should I do? What are the sort of jobs I do as a electrician? For networking and programming there are a lot of guides and material out there. I'm kinda lost now.

>>48769 Depends on your country but generally there are trade schools or trade unions that will give you training to start an apprenticeship, and then you work your way up to being licensed and capable. As for what you do, depends on if your residential or industrial. Residential repairs and upgrades the wiring, lighting, and appliances in houses, and does all the wiring on new builds. Industrial does the wiring in factories or big commerical buildings, and fault finds/repairs machinery. Personally I do both but there are guys who specialize in one or the other, and other guys who do more specialist stuff like marine installations or comms systems. There's also lineman work but that's a completely different skillset. I recommend electrical work since that's what I do, but if there are any other skilled trades avaliable you should look into them.

>>48619 >>48628 >>48626 >>48648 clearly never had a soykaf job but especially >>48616 , you are extremely naive if you think jobs that require you to do seemingly simple tasks are easy. i wouldnt expect most neets in here (im assuming you are one) would know about it, either way

>>48616 >Low education = hard job = low wage. >High education = easy job = Slightly higher wage FTFY. Too many educated people nowadays in Europe but also too many NEETs. Cousin is a baker, all the newbies he gets to train are geeks and "dude weed LMAO" who quit after a week or take a sick leave. The boss expects the experienced staff to compensate the fug ups while pretending that there is an abundance of workers to employ. The honest workers are getting DPed by capitalists and socialists.

>>50085 >'geeks' and nihilists are dishonest You mean heretics and not saying that is dishonest ironically. If someone is weak they need sick days, that's what geek really means. Weed? Mentally ill and we're not advanced enough to help them, that's what that really means. They're not the ones being dishonest here. Also to add to what the honest person said up there that you replied to, the lower the income the harder the job is to get and then they give you low hours on top of it due to the competition of entry level positions. Who get's educations and good resumes? Kids from more wealthy homes. That's honesty. Plain and also simple.

>>50086 >If someone is weak they need sick days Not the ones I saw who proudly waved their paycheck while doing jack soykaf for a month. And they are many. Initially they believed in the system then they saw the parasites pretending to be sick for months. Then they had to work 2 jobs to fill in those who "agonize at home" as a consequence. Eventually they threw the towel and started playing the parasite game (I don't blame them). Ans so my cousin always comes back home wrecked after a shift of +11 hours. This sick leave programme is making others sick with despair. >Weed? Mentally ill and we're not advanced enough to help them, that's what that really means. They're not the ones being dishonest here. So then go be a nihilist at home. The work place ain't a psychiatric ward. I got my own mental issues but I don't crap all over my colleagues by coming in drunk or stoned. Besides, booze and weed are the beverage and cabage of the conquered people. > due to the competition of entry level positions. You don't get it. In Europe they bring in these dregs into the work force to create a dishonest artificial competition and so they can justify the low wages while many as I stated erlier work 3 jobs carrying the weight of the colleagues dropping out and benefiting social programs thanks to the doctor certifying their "exagerated" lumabgo or their flacid dick. Now of course you could say "your country sounds aweful! Why doesn't everybody bug out so that they can drop these retarded fraudulent rules?" and I do recommend my cousin to do that but his pride stops him from doing so.

>>50085 I work at home Depot, and I trained 5 people this summer to replace my role so I can do other stuff, and I ended up doing 2+ jobs all summer. For the same pay as the people I trained and needed constant help. my body is broken

>>48527 You have to like what you do and have ways of achieving it. You can also be a mechanic and have Webdev as a side job being a freelancer. Never put things you love though as the main job otherwise you will lose the love you had for it to begin with. >>48527

>>48616 Not when your jobs can be outsourced. It use to be this way a hundred years ago when nations cared about their people but nowadays it's either you work hard for a lot less pay or you get replaced by some guy in India or Poland.

>>48528 I do see a point in this. Because programmers are very important in terms applications and various other programs we use especially video games and FOSS projects like Blender, Godot Engine. But I also think we need people who go into things they are good at and be taught essential things like how to Garden, DIY projects that help young minds build things out of very few parts, or even the basics of how to survive a power outage if it happens in your area longer than a week. Without that I have a bad feeling any the future of society and it's really huge dependence on A.I and technology only.

Is there any way to get rid of this feelings though?

>>50443 We are going to die. We are born naked. There is no reason to not follow your heart.