Discipline

Hello Lainons, This is a thread about discipline, specifically self-discipline, looking at the fundamentals of what discipline is, and ways to combat laziness, procrastination and other forms of "anti-discipline" and steps to build self-discipline. What are fundamental elements that build the structure of discipline? What are fundamental elements that build the structure of laziness? Why is self-discipline good opposed to forms of laziness? What discipline building methods have you tried with success/failure? Why did these methods succeed or fail? And ultimately, how can you build your own discipline? Looking deeper: Discipline and Nature vs Nurture Recognizing when discipline is required and when it is not Individual disciplines -> Types (like individual learning styles) Discipline and the internet

>What are fundamental elements that build the structure of discipline/laziness? I think it has a lot to do with how people are raised for example if someone grew up with very strict parents that instilled discipline in them from a young age, such as having a parent that was in the military, being disciplined would be a second nature to them, they wouldn't have to think about it due to them being force to be disciplined by their parents from a young age. Laziness manifests due to having overprotective, or lenient parents, so the child never needs to develop discipline as their parents either took care of everything for them, or just didn't care about them enough so the child ends up doing whatever they please, leading to a so called 'man child' because they never felt the need to grow up. >Why is self-discipline good opposed to forms of laziness? Being disciplined can lead to many positive outcomes, such as hard working towards a personal goal, independence, and self sufficiency, while laziness has no obvious benefit I can think of. >What discipline building methods have you tried with success/failure? I used to be an agoraphobic NEET, now I'm just NEET. In my late teenage years I forced myself to go outside even though it made me uncomfortable, afraid, and anxious. This fear was due to my overprotective mother never allowing me to go out alone and having her accompany me everywhere for most of my life, then when I got older I just got thrown out into the world and had to deal with it, so I forced myself to get over my agoraphobia. I think the practice of forcing yourself to do something your afraid is called Exposure Therapy. This worked well in curing my fear of the outside, but the wider problem, that being social anxiety, is still there (hence me being NEET) >how can you build your own discipline? In my opinion it just comes down to self control and determination. You have to understand why you need to be disciplined and how it benefits your life.

Laziness is the act of doing nothing and not liking it. Discipline is the act of doing something and not liking it.

I think there's two approaches to discipline: Bottom-up as >>39236 explains where discipline is instilled from a young age or trained for a lengthy period of time so that structure and order in routine and overcoming hardship has been nurtured and becomes a building block of a personality. This of course comes with downsides including possibly being too rigid, closed-minded and conforming. Top-down where there is an overarching goal or vision and discipline is just a necessary tool to work your way towards achieving whatever is in the greater scheme of things. Motivation, which is usually fleeting, is fuelled by this and maintains the dopaminergic system for discipline. This is usually my approach, and the biggest downside for me is that everything crashes down when my goals or worldviews change and I start to question my pursuits.

>>39240 Is there ever a possibility of growing to like the things you force yourself to do?

>>39220 I strongly recommend these 3 books to anyone tackling this, especially the first book. It was key in analyzing and helping with my motivation and procrastination, not just in a personal way, but in a scientific understanding as well.

>>40217 Epub versions.

>>40217 These books aren't very helpful. I read them all, and I'm still addicted to video games, porn, TV shows, etc.

>>40368 >I read them all Did any of the topics make an impression, or give you ideas on how they could be applied personally? Have you tried any of the advice?

>>40373 They all have rather interesting possible solutions to more superficial problems, such as that if being distracted, or being overwhelmed by work. Kelly's book at least tries to fix underlying causes, and while I did try some of the tools mentioned in her book, none really stuck with me. They weren't sustainable or reliable as tools to help me become productive. Perhaps I am just lonely and depressed and without fixing that nothing else will help.

>>39220 i believe the main problem is the structure of your mind. We do not usually pay attention to the fact that the conscious and unconscious mind are an organic structure in our organism, we tend to identify it with our "world" or the pure, unchanging scenario of the state of events. However, it is an organ which has an activity. It is also an organ susceptible to adaptation and transformation, such as our muscles are to make an analogy. As such, it can be specifically trained with the aim of being able to endure more work. The best method to train this organ is meditation. Your conscious mind is composed of two parts: 1. your focus of attention 2. your unfocused peripheral consciousness your attention is akin to the object of focus of your vision: it takes an object (not necessarily visual, it can be a sound, a thought, a sensation...) and it takes it apart from the homogeneity of the peripheral consciousness (see down below) to abstract it, analyse it, take it apart, extract information from it systematically, etc. Peripheral consciousness is everything that you are currently aware of, but you are not currently paying attention to right now. It appears as a homogenous whole that provides the context or background for your attention. Your attention is not actually fully controllable right now, it works by unconscious stimuli. Inside your unconscious, there are certain objects or topics which are deemed important somehow. These can be more intentional, like a skill you choose to develop or a task you set for yourself, or less intentional, like falling in love or, more commonly, something like porn and masturbation impulse. You can't control what will have more weight inside your unconscious directly, However, you can indirectly manage it by means of INTENTION. If your will or intention is strong enough, objects that you deem worthless will have less weight in the unconscious "scales", and objects you deem worth will be made more weighty thanks to your intentional input. Consider it as if it was a pair of scales, and the stronger your intention, the more weight you can control so that the object you wish to be more weighty is more likely to get your attention. By means of meditation, you can exponentially increase the power of your attention. We could delve deeper in the nature of consciousness, but for the sake of this post, lets go to the point, as i will provide resources for those interested later. The main problem with focusing and everything related to procrastination, addiction etc. comes down to the relationship between these elements of your mind and their power or amount of energetic resource. By meditating, you establish a better connection between attention and peripheral consciousness so that they work together efficiently. For example, the problem with distraction is that your attention is caught by whatever your unconscious deems worth paying attention to in the pool of objects provided by your peripheral consciousness. With the very common and shameful problem of porn addiction, your unconscious mind is not susceptible of being managed by intention, so when you see something lewd in the web it first enters your peripheral awareness, then it gets your attention, and then the impulse to consume it is triggered. If the relationship between these parts and their individual power is increased, your unconscious mind would be managed not to give weight to that topic, your peripheral consciousness would only allow interesting objects to appear (this does not only means avoiding stupid soykaf, but also finding better things to pay attention to) and your attention would gather information more efficiently, and if the relationship between attention and P. consc. is optimized, without loosing sight of the bigger context in the process. This and more info i found in this book im going to share with you, it is a practical book you must follow habitually with detailed instructions to a long process of perfecting your mind, leading to incredible benefits i did not mention here. It has some buddhist stuff, for those who are not attracted to this, you will get the benefits anyway, just ignore the spiritual and ethical recommendations and concepts or transform them into secular equivalents if you are able to, but please trust me, they are not necessary for reaping the fruits of this resource. The text is very light on spiritual doctrines anyway, as it also has a focus on neuroscience. In fact, the author is half buddhist master, half neuroscientist, and this very perspective is the one used in the book. im sure this is the definitive solution, try it out.

>>40437 How long have you spent meditating for an hour a day as the book tells you to, Lainon? Let me tell you, this isn't useful for most people. This isn't a sustainable habit either - meditation. Also, did you know that Culadasa was caught having multiple affairs with his students? I do not believe meditation is the great thing he claims it to be.

>>40447 argument: people without willpower cannot establish meditation as a habit to get more willpower counter argument the only effort required to meditate is to sit and concentrate on some things for a little while meditation is a very simple habit (only sitting some time a day and in ideal scenario when travelling from place to place) if you cant establish meditation, you can't establish any other simple habit to get out of your state, since meditation is as simple as it gets people without willpower conceive themselves as unable to do this, they refuge themselves from the keys of their salvation thanks to this this conception is another self defence mechanism employed by your laziness to unable you to get going if you eliminate this defence mechanism, you will be able to start with very simple habits, such as meditation meditation improves willpower and the ability to make habits therefore, the only obstacle for meditating for a person like you describe is itself the obstacle to get out of its state to begin with, so if he is able to get out of his state, one of his first steps could undoubtedly be meditation (because of its simplicity and progressive difficulty curve). In turn, meditation will enable more willpower to be exerted, causing an exponential growth in this sector. (sorry i was too lazy to write it in prose) Regarding your accusation directed to culayasa, sex between master and student is not in itself wrong, and it is not wrong just because an institutional law says it. This means it may be not legal, but is not necessarily wrong because of this Even if we assume it is wrong or, worst case scenario, there has been harassment (which it may very possibly be with these stories), one still has to direct himself to the doctrines themselves, since neither neuroscience nor the techniques of mahayana buddhism were developed by culayasa, and even if he did create them, someone without virtue can still write a book on meditation techniques, since these are morally neutral and fulfil a technical role, they can be applied without paying any attention to any moral principle whatsoever, even if they historically have been merged with moral principles. you seem to enjoy your current state of inactivity and systematically disregard any solution as unviable, even though its easy to make. I have been following the book's instructions and i have seen results, even though i started not too long ago. try it out, friend, the trick is not to think too much about it and just move your body towards this or whatever other goal: your body does not only move when you are 100% motivated and feeling the task, even if you dont feel like it, with your intention you can still move your body.

>>40437 >The Mind Illuminated Nice, I've also been recommending this book here a lot. The best mindfulness meditation guide IMO. You might also like "Altered Traits" if you haven't already checked it out. It explains in detail the current research on meditation's effects and points out many flaws in study design that are often ignored. However, I think you weren't clear enough on explaining WHY meditation is so superior to other advice: In order to change your behavior, you need to actually train your mind as opposed to having purely intellectual insights about why you're procrastinating. Books like >>40217 are giving you those intellectual insights ("I should have less distractions in my life" etc.) without actually giving you the ability to do something you couldn't do before. Plus they're often written like a bodybuilding book with a 500 page summary of Schwarzenegger's life and only 1 page of actual workout advice. See >>40368 and >>40434. Meditation on the other hand, enables you to do things you were literally incapable of doing before (saying no to time wasting instead of simply realizing that you shouldn't waste time, for example). You can realize on an intellectual level that a spider isn't dangerous and still be incapable of touching it due to phobia. Similarly, you can realize that you should be productive and still be incapable of being productive due to an untrained mind that is overwhelmed by it's cravings. Having all the knowledge in the world won't change that, only practice will, and the best practice for the mind is mindfulness meditation, at least in my opinion. >>40447 NTA, but you will still receive many benefits if you meditate only 20min a day. Literally everyone who has time to read long posts on a japanese cyberpunk cartoon forum has more than enough time to meditate. >this isn't useful for most people. Even if you ignore all the anecdotal evidence, many rigorous scientific studies show that meditation is helpful. >This isn't a sustainable habit either Why do you think that? >I do not believe meditation is the great thing he claims it to be. Neither do I. I believe "Awakening" and things like that are bs. And it definitely won't suddenly turn you into an ethical person (see below). But meditation gives you traits which directly improve life quality and (in some areas) competence, Culadasa's advice is clear and helpful, and that's good enough. >>40447 >>40449 I haven't heard of affairs with students, but Culadasa was accused of and admitted to cheating on his wife with hookers and lying to her about it for a long time. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMindIlluminated/comments/cu5lz0/this_is_not_an_appropriate_time_for_me_to_respond/

>>40463 >books like >>40217 are giving you those intellectual insights ("I should have less distractions in my life" etc.) >they're often written like a bodybuilding book with a 500 page summary of Schwarzenegger's life and only 1 page of actual workout advice >saying no to time wasting instead of simply realizing that you shouldn't waste time Nope, look again. It sounds like you think those books are basically "Gee, wouldn't it be nice to stop being distracted? Huh, would you just imagine that. You should stop doing it." That's stupid, who would recommend a book like that? And I've found their advice immensely practical - there's eithеr no fluff, or it's actually something which helps to illustrate the point the authors are trying to make. The first book even has a good primer to meditation, presented in the context of all the other scientific information and practical advice for avoiding the motivational biases and tricks we play on ourselves.

>>40434 this so much

>>40217 I'll summarize these books so you don't need to read them. And yes, I am procrastinating right now, but I feel like I've been unnecessarily cynical in my reply, and I seek to correct it. Let's start with Cal Newport's Digital Minimalism: Introduction We are becoming information addicts, and the key to thriving in the modern world is to spend much less time using technology. References Thoreau's Walden, even when we know that Thoreau didn't slum it up and actually spent every weekend eating his mother's cooked meals and had his sister wash his clothes during his "experiment". Chapter 1 A Lopsided Arms Race Social media - Facebook - is addictive because of intermittent positive reinforcement and our need for social approval. Chapter 2 Digital Minimalism Digital minimalism is a philosophy where you apply the "less but better" philosophy of minimalism to your digital life - to apps, to services, etc. This is the opposite of FOMO, where you try your best to be conservative of the tech you use and avoid adopting new soykaf unless it is really worth it. Some bullshit principles like - clutter is costly (because it costs attention) - optimization is important (it is important to minmax your use of tech) - intentionality is satisfying (don't allow yourself to automatically use and consoom; ensure that you are intentionally doing it) Newport waxes lyrical about Thoreau (again), talks of his behavior as if it is a "new economics", and considers Thoreau a model. Some more BS. Chapter 3 The Digital Declutter This is Newport trying to be a digital Mary Kondo. step 1: remove certain non-critical tech you use (apps, video games, smartphone, whatever fits your scenario) step 2: allow yourself to find alternatives during a break of 30 days step 3: decide whether you want to reintroduce the tech or not You know what, this is actually useful. Maybe I can finally kick my use of reddit for hentai and use something else for hentai. reddit is a sickening cesspool, I'm tired of reading about US politics when I just want to fap. chapter 4 spend time alone Newport praises solitude - he doesn't mean physical separation, but mental separation, where your "mind is free from input from other minds". These inputs can be in the form of reading books, listening to podcasts, watching TV, etc. He tells about how MLKjr used solitude (aka prayer and reflection) to make his decisions that changed the course of US history. solitude is a prerequisite for original and creative thought, and this is a claim I reluctantly agree with. newport now introduces a new term called "solitude deprivation", a state in which a person has almost zero time alone with their own thoughts. He argues that this is very difficult to achieve, partly because being "alone" is seen as bad in soyciety. He talks about how use of social media (particularly Instagram) increases anxiety in teenagers, and then again some Walden worship. He then recommends a few practices the reader should follow: - leave your phone at home (soudns rather impractical and meaningless to me, but it is something worth trying) - take long walks - write letters to yourself (or journal): I have been experimenting with this one for the past few weeks. It has helped me deal with my emotions and clarify my thoughts. It's worth the time I spend doing it. chapter 5 Don't Click "Like" some interesting theories about connections between the default network and social cognition. Newport reiterates the dangers and downsides of using social media, such as Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. He recommends we use face-to-face communication instead. he recommends practices: - don't click like (aka do not participate in low-quality communication, whether it is clicking like, or sending reaction faces, or meaningless affirmations such as "so cute!". Remain silent). The point is that low-quality interactions become, in your mind, a reasonable alternative to high-quality social interation, especially since it is easy, convenient and gives you a dopamine hit when it happens to you. Instead, make time for other people. Write long-form essays and emails (this is not what Newport recommends, this is my interpretation). Go meet people instead of hitting a like button. This specific advice is all very good to hear and I agree with it, but as an agoraphobic NEET with friends halfway across countries or even completely online, I cannot really meet them face to face. I also find that most people in my social circle and extended social circle, and places I hang out digitally, are filled with people who are mostly comfortable with this low-quality social interactions, and do not have a habit, nor are particularly inclined to, have high-quality interactions. I guess this means I need to look specifically for people who want high quality interactions. - consolidate texting (don't be available all the time. Consolidate replying to emails, text messages, etc.). You can do this by keeping your smartphone on DND by default. This also supposedly motivates you to have a "real conversation" with the other person by scheduling it and making it happen. - hold conversation office hours (schedule a time when anyone can call you at that time daily and ask people to call you at that time when you are free to catch up or talk about anything) chapter 6 Reclaim Leisure Newport discusses the FIRE community and their philosophy for creation over consumption. He tells us to prioritize demanding activity (creative activities) over passive consumption. Newport talks about the satisfaction one can get by practicing a craft. He recommends us to use our skills to produce valuable things in the physical world. Newport then talks about the benefits of real world social interactions that constitute leisure, such as playing tabletop games, card games, and communal physical exertions such as CrossFit, over solo leisure activities. He recommends we seek out activities that require IRL structured social interaction. recommended practices: - fix or build something physical every week - schedule your low-quality leisure in advance and don't do it outside those times - join some social club or create one of your own (I really need to do this) - follow leisure plans (which is absurd if your leisure is low-quality leisure, but makes sense if your leisure is high-quality) newport recommends making weekly and monthly leisure plans. chapter 7 Join the Attention Resistance Newport talks about the attention economy and how you are not a user, but a used (Richard Stallman's term, go read some of his stuff). recommended practices: - delete social media from your phone (and by this he means Facebook). I have an imageboard reader app on my phone, I'm not going to delete it. It's not like lainchan has much activity anyway. - turn your devices into single-purpose computers (use a device only for one specific purpose, such as work, or leisure). This is not cheap and therefore impractical. - use social media like a professional (as in, like one of those losers who are social media managers for brands). Instead of being a consoomer, or participating in social media at all, the person in Newport's anecdote uses it as a research tool, to find out any useful information or people related to the domain they work in. I don't recommend you do this. Few of us are in a position where we need immediate insights and need to sift through the insanity that is Twitter or Reddit or whatever. I do suggest you use RSS to stay up to date by adding specific sources into your RSS feed reader. - embrace slow media, aka prefer consumption of high quality media that was created with higher input, and has long-term benefits to you. This means prefering long form essays over comments on a discussion site, this means preferring books over essays online. - dumb down your smartphone. Replace your smartphone with a dumb phone. This is again a really good idea and I plan to experiment with this once I get my hands on a Moto Razr (the very old version). Conclusion Ehh, some more anecdotes and reiteration of the book's points. I'll go through the other books later. Now you don't have to wade through all those anecdotes just to get to the crux of the book. Do I recommend you read this book? No, not until you actually experiment with a few practices listed above. There's no point in reading the book if you won't try implementing this person's suggestions anyway. If you want to discuss related stuff with me, message me using XMPP at septimus@dismail.de with OMEMO encryption on. Especially you Meditation-san, you seem rather interesting, and I want more friends who value privacy.

good thread

I tried multiple approaches, to losing weight, to building a study habit, and to exercise. I followed through the atomic habits book for at least a week and then I gave up. I downloaded hundreds of fitness/productivity/fasting apps, to do lists, mental health apps, you name it. A few days of some bullshit and then I proceed to delete them. I struggle with consistency. It is hard for me to type this here, I hate to admit but everyday I wait for my mentality to change, I wait to be inspired to change. I tried fasting multiple times, I even went two days without food, which isn't much but during that time so felt like a beast. And then suddenly I just didn’t want to do it anymore. This is me I finally understood. My mind can’t see past that instant gratification. I don’t hope to find an answer in this thread. I honestly didn’t want to even post this, and I don’t really share anything online, but maybe putting this out here might help me and other.

Hello again lains, OP here I popped in to check on this thread, I'm glad to see many other lainons have been sharing and that I am not alone. I find it's an oxymoron to read a book to stop time wasting. It doesn't work, in fact it's quite the opposite. There is a whole community of "self help" gurus that prey on people with problems. They write books designed to make you feel good reading them, make you feel like you're doing something productive. Eventually, you get to the point where the only thing that's productive is reading said books. That being said, some valuable information may be found after all the useless slag is scraped away. In the end though, is it really worth it? Moving on. One major thing I tend to struggle with is creating new projects, and failing to finish them, or they never even come to light. Typically through a lack of discipline combined with loss of motivation... Motivation. It goes with discipline like society to economics. There's an incredibly complex dynamic between the two. I've noticed that they're polar opposites that cancel out each other to be balanced. Let me elaborate. When motivation is high, one may not need a lot of discipline (if any) to complete whatever it is you're motivated to do. However over time, that motivation will drop, so you need discipline to take over from where motivation left off to be truly productive. Through this period (pic related) of discipline, motivation will reach it's absolute bottom, this is where most people give up, the discipline required is too much. However if you power through that, the motivation will come back. Think of it like a sinusoidal curve. (Specifically a cosine curve) It goes up and down reaching a minima and maxima each period. What you may notice, is that initially no discipline is required. This is a special state as it determines how high your motivation will be, and inversely, how much discipline you will need after that drop-off point. (The amplitude) Typically, the more motivation, the less discipline. That's great and all, but how can I apply this to my life? You can't. You can however, realize that this isn't a be-all end-all. You can utilize this a recognition that over time motivation will come back naturally. Perhaps you could alter the shape of the curve, make the period longer, or decrease the amplitude. Adjust it to suit your needs. I begin to find it necessity to break down these complex systems. Without a fundamental understanding I find it impossible to bring meaningful insights, perhaps solve issues involving one or more elements. Sorry for the blog post style, I will eventually have a blog to convey my thoughts and keep most of this kind of discussion there.

>>40466 I have to admit that I didn't know the first book and that I'm pretty biased agains self-help books in general. The fluff and dishonest promises many of them contain just bother me too much. I shouldn't have criticized the specific books you posted based on my general dislike of self-help books. >>40852 That summary was very nice to read. My criticism of these books was oversimplifying the problem. They do contain some good advice. But I still believe that the utility of this advice pales in comparison to any form of practice that improves your ability to accept uncomfortable situations, reduces your desire for entertainment (or other stimulation) and makes you more aware of the present. Apparently you had enough of these abilities without practice to implement the advice. Good for you. But especially the people who frequent image boards are often caught in such an unhealthy life style that they are incapable of implementing it and need to build the necessary mental abilities first. Now you might think >But if they are incapable of implementing the advice, how are they supposed to pick up a meditation habit? Because you can start with even just 5min of meditation per day and the ability to meditate more will follow. BTW I'm not saying that meditation is the only practice that builds these abilities, but it seems to me to be the best practice for this. >If you want to discuss related stuff with me, message me Maybe, but might take a long time. Also I know nothing about encryption.

i have probably the most galaxy brain approach to this: wasting time with X and cant seem to stop? start playing Y which is more fun excessively. This makes sure i stop doing X without any resistance. Now the trick is i know im gonna get tired of Y so Y wont become the next problem and since i stopped doing X, X addiction dies out while absorbed in Y. Most of the bad behaviour seems to be habit than real addictive because once you step away from it for a while it loses all value and you question yourself wtf you were wasting your life with.

>>40852 Nice work lainon

>>39220 I am also suffering from the lack of self discipline & looking for answers/solutions. >What are fundamental elements that build the structure of discipline? The fundamental elements would be motivation,system,knowledge. Motivation: The mental & physical energy (will) required to take actions towards accomplishing a well defined goal. system: Have a complete understanding of the sequence of actions(organized plan) to take in order to reach your well defined goal. knowledge:To know what your goal is? What are all the possible actions that you can do? >What are fundamental elements that build the structure of laziness? The fundamental elements would be the lack of motivation,disorder/chaos,Ignorance. lack of motivation: the desire to not act,because you lack the physical & mental energy to take actions.You have despair & are in a scarcity mindset (you have been completely defeated & can not imagine a single possible outcome) & you don't (((care))) . Not having A sense of implied responsibility for safety & prosperity. Disorder/chaos:You have no defined system or design/blueprint to sequence your actions in order to reach a desired outcome.All actions you take have no relation to each other (disconnected,dissonant,Isolated) & you have no understanding of why you act ,what was its cause & the outcome from you action is mostly unexpected. Ignorance: You have no defined goals,You do not know about all the actions you can possible take & you do not care because you have no virtue(you are content & satisfied through vices) ** I am plagued by vices, not a single trait of my character has any virtue ** Why is self-discipline good opposed to forms of laziness? Self-discipline achieved through virtue,you are true to your self & others, your actions create value,you possess outstanding skill,you have integrity,you are trustworthy,beautiful & noble, you inspire others, A community can be built & maintained with such people Laziness is arrived at through vice,you lie to yourself & others , you live off from the actions done by others,you acquire no skill,you have no integrity, you mind & body is deformed ,your spirit is corrupt,you are hated by everyone,You destroy community & end civilization. What discipline building methods have you tried with success/failure? I have not tried :(.... I am reading (will try) David Allen's Getting Things Done Why did these methods succeed or fail? Methods fail because I am a dickhead (I get into every type vice imaginable), so I never Get Things Done. heh ! And ultimately, how can you build your own discipline? Stop being a dickhead,( Stop lying = first step towards not being dickhead & working towards building a virtuous character ) Nature vs Nurture Are my genetics the cause for my chaotic evil alignment or are the culture I grew up in responsible for dickheadedness.Both! So what can I do about it, 1: disengage from the corrupting influence of society. 2: Marry & have offspring with people with good genetics so that my offspring may escape the effects of the cursed chaos genes. Part one is easy & I have already done it, I quit smoking & drinking because I no longer have friends. Part 2 is now difficult because I have no social life.So my only way out is self-discipline, become friends with people who are & then among them find mate.Then mate! **checkmate** Recognizing when discipline is required and when it is not I recognized it when my life spiraled out of control,I became addicted,fat,retarded & depressed.Also broke and alone. when it is not .....I have lived my entire life without it & I cant recommend any situation when it is not required Individual disciplines I have already mentioned : 1 knowledge (stop being ignorant ) 2. Create a system (understand the relationship between your goal & the sequence of actions that you can take ) 3. stop lying ( if you have virtue then you have the mental & physical energy to act ) Discipline and the internet Define why you want to use it. Understand why you use it & what is gained or lost from that use.When I do not know what I want on the internet I tend to procrastinate then I am undisciplined ,but when I have a definite goal & I know what actions to take & I know that I am using to waste time or to be productive then I am disciplined.To have the motivations for productive use of the internet I cant engage in any vices **lust = top priority** note :My explanation of self discipline will not make sense to moral relativists, this explanation of self discipline will destroy people with inverted sense of virtue & vice (psychopaths) because if your goal is to harm yourself or others & you are motivated to take (planed & organized) actions towards reaching that goal then you will destroy yourself & others, This explanation wont satisfy hedonists because the hedonist's only goal is pleasure then you wont act if actions you take cause outcomes that are neutral or painful.

>>40437 Why do you think brain is a muscle? Analogy is not argument because similarity does not mean sameness.

>>43022 >dude makes analogy to training your brain >better point out brain not muscle why are you so contrarian is the real question?

>>43031 Because he either has autism or is a cluster B. Hard to tell these days.

Writer here. For years, I would try to write 1,000 words a day. That's how I'd started. I'd hit bursts, then go months without producing anything. I wanted to try something different. Last month I started writing 100 words a day. That's it. If I wrote more, great, but 100 measly words was the main goal. This is not unlike a gym, in my opinion. I also made it a habit to read every night. I was particularly lazy when it came to reading; I'd spend an entire year eventually completing a 350 page novel. That's awful, especially for someone who is an aspiring writer. Anyway, you get the idea. I applied the same technique: read a page a day. It's so little, but it's so easy to accomplish. My goal was, essentially, to form a habit. After a couple months of doing this, I now am able to write several hundred words a day and no less than 200. Currently I am able to read several chapters of different novels daily. It's a nice uptick. But the point of the gym thing: at least for me, I wasn't going to suddenly start writing/reading amounts like I was aiming for right away. I'm in my early 30s - the time to form that habit by brute force is long gone. Ship has sailed. That doesn't mean I'm screwed, I just needed a different technique. So, much like going to the gym, you start small: say something tolerable, not too easy but not hard enough it hurts and you don't want to even bother attending again. You keep doing that and very gradually increase your weight (in my case, writing, though I plan to go to the gym so this helps, too). This has worked the best for me so far. I won't lie and say 100% of the time I want to write, but it's much easier and more enjoyable. More times than not, I really enjoy it and even on the bad days, it's not hard. With my current trend, I think I'll be pushing out 500 words a day by mid-summer.

>>43031 I mean brain do not train. Brain is not like a muscle that can be trained.

>>43035 Yes im have autism

>>43093 Oh fuarrrk sorry i understand my mistake

>>43093 It does though. Learning is mechanically a training process where neural pathways are solidified. In fact if you do strength training the bigger longterm gains are not in the muscle but in the brain. Your brain learns how to signal better. CNS adaption is the term for this. This is your so called farmer strength and its also where oly lifters excel over others.

>>43102 Thanks for explain.

>>39220 here's my 2 cents. You focus on discipline. You read all these books people talk about. On the deep end of this discipline rabbit hole you eventually come around to habits. "having discipline" becomes "build better habits" There's books like Atomic Habits, and The Now Habit, which have some really good advice and insights in them. But let's go further. what is "building a habit"? You learn about synapses, neuroplasticity, etc. We all experience being "on autopilot" for boring tasks, this kind of a huge 'obscure' subject, lots of people have talked about this, from Gurdjieff to daytime talk show guests... So basically we want to put our autopilot, our robot-self to work for us.. There are many ways of doing this. Hypnosis can be a very efficient one. If you can get access to a hypnotherapist, I highly recommend it. If you know a kind witch who grows entheogens, that works nicely too. But at this level we start asking the harder questions. WHAT do we want to do with all this discipline, or habits... If we had the full cooperation of our subconscious mind, full access to our robot's programming... what would we do? And that, obviously brings you back further to the real hard questions. WHO are you. Why the hell do you even exist, that you are here wondering what to do and how to do it... So if I can offer anything of value it's this: Start from the beginning and save yourself the run-around. Take your time to explore the Akashic field very leisurely until you find "your" identity, or one you're interested in, solidify your ego first, and then move on to details like narrative control and habits. Cheers!

works for some not for others. many it will be easier to convince themselves down to their subconscious that they want to do something and change their environment to shape that. Others force themselves to. I think the second is neurotic and retarded. Thats just because ive found it to be massively inferior to the first and also produce a mindset where they feel everyone who doesn't discipline or force themselves is degenerate or lesser. Go ahead and call me out for what I just said, I dont think people who operate off "discipline" and "conquering" their "drives" are lesser I just think its stupid and a waste of time for myself. I dont think they are neurotic I think the idea is. Regardless im not psychic and people have told me it makes their lives happier and so i believe them. Its just funny cause they never believe the same for me, while I know I put in infinitely less effort and stress to make any equivalent lifestyle changes I want without any discipline at all and purely convincing myself I actually do want and enjoy what my more "higher thought" wants to do versus my habits and instincts and pleasure seeking. Sometimes they are aligned even, but many times they arent. This isnt because im a superior bigbrain godman, they could do it too I always feel. But again maybe discipline truly is the easier path for them, maybe its as easy as mine and they just groan and complain a lot. Id rather shape how I view what I cant move to be something I can move instead of just gritting my teeth and moving it in a great struggle. Probably because I dont feel any sense of accomplishment like people with discipline do after. If I put in a month of laborious work lets say to ace some exam, and I get an A+, i dont feel good. Instead I notice how someone who did far less than me also got an A+, and I feel stupid for wasting time. Id feel stupid for wasting time even if I was the only one with an A+ that took two hundred hours of work while people who just barely passed only put in 50. Id rather barely pass but with disproportionately favorably less time spent. And I do now, always.

>>40852 Great post anon, absolutely top tier post. The one thing I'd change is that you SHOULD delete your imageboard app from your phone. Seriously, no one needs to phone post -- leave brewing soykaf for the computer.

>>40188 It becomes easier once you start to see improvements in your life. But the actual act (working out, studying, etc) is always difficult to look forward to.

>>43090 Your strategy - your humility - is a much more resilient strategy than that of others. I have begun doing something similar, except I aim for 10 words a day instead of 100.

>>40217 I think I'm going to give these a read over the weekend. I've got a lot going on and kind of want to take the time away from mindlessly browsing the web anyways.

>>40852 Excellent post, nice work.

>>39236 >having a parent that was in the millitary, being disciplined would be a second nature to them wouldn't agree with this, anon my area was filled with children of rich army generals and army in general. most of the children were spoiled and used to do hard drugs, but gotta admit most of the guys were fuarrrking fearless and daunting

>>39220 You're asking a lot of questions unless you're probably writing a paper about it. I'll only select the few important ones. >And ultimately, how can you build your own discipline? Image training? Do you have a person of reference (a role model - to follow or avoid)? It's only a matter of sticking to rules or routines and doing regular self-checks + self-awareness. >What are fundamental elements that build the structure of discipline/laziness? Usually it's either habitual (habits) and bad memory causing you to lose checking on or evaluating yourself. Sometimes even with great resolve to do something (like doing something important at an allotted date), if you forget about it or oversleep then you won't be able to do it. >Why is self-discipline good opposed to forms of laziness? Laziness itself is not bad and must not be compared with discipline. Discipline =/= Hard work. Optimized lazy work is better and more productive than Unoptimized hard work. New inventions that maximize productivity usually surface out due to laziness.

>>40466 >a bodybuilding book with a 500 page summary of Schwarzenegger's life and only 1 page of actual workout advice What if I told you that Schwarzeneggers life and mind is the actual key to the workouts and not the 1 page workout itself. What if I told you we all know what it takes to be masters of a craft, but what we are lacking is the mindset?

A video discussing Berserk told me that a notable cynic philosopher believed the pleasure from tragedy is discipline .