Why the internet needs an isolated language

Anonymous greatly wins by exposing unspeakable truths, through irony + sincerity. HOWEVER, poetry.. >[Viruses] are like lyrical poems in causing imperfections in machines ”made to work” and in representing the rebellion of our digital serfs. http://www.digitalcraft.org/?artikel_id=292 Viruses are like that; poetry is like that too. Grammar generates a quasi-masculine sort of kyriarchy. (dumbly elaborated: "memetic psychological conditioning") Viral agents we expose our selves to shape our existences, THEREFORE we must impose a sybil certification process to prevent spam. Immune therapies spam our genome with cruft in addition to creating potential for well-designed health. LIKEWISE, exposure to neuro-lingustic spam requires from us extra tax to keep our systems balanced operating within ethically deep parameters. A tight information dense base made the language's fundament minimally excludes participation especially by the most unfree beings. FILTERing bases which enter the canon corpus rises a barrier; a clearer distinction between what normal people base content on and what punks base content on. Join the Rev0lution It will not be televised

Not sure if I'm a fool or not but this seems like complete nonsense to me.

I second this, but the internet already has an isolated language. It's so isolated, nobody understands nor knows how to use it.

Don't make the mistake twice.

sounds wack but we should definitely all be speaking Esperanto right now.

>>34464 >we should definitely all be speaking Esperanto right now. Why? Sell me on Esperanto. English is soykaf, how is that conlang better?

>>34465 1) it is very easy to learn. Most of its roots are familiar to speakers of indo-european languages, the spelling is completely unambiguous, the sounds are easy for almost everyone to pronounce, and the syntax is simplistic. 2) it is already well-established as a living language. There are books published in Esperanto, and a few people who speak it as a first language(their parents had only Esperanto as a common language).

>>34464 How long did it took you to learn it?

>>34467 >it is very easy to learn >tfw you didn't manage to learn it

Semantically you don't "learn a language" you "learn about a language" since languages evolve. If you speak English with one group, you will eventually know less about English spoken by a different group per evolution. Ideology rather than design makes Esperanto a special case, Esperanto speakers believe a single book serves as law for Esperanto grammar (approximately 250 pages in 5 languages, so ~50 pages per language). That book contains a dictionary, examples, and codifies the 16 rules. Ideologically any Esperanto which abides by that book is valid Esperanto. Any grammar which develops in living Esperanto, which contravenes with that book Esperanto institutions should ideologically per many manifestos written on the matter deem poetical machinations and invalid prose. If a word from your native language, does not exist in that particular dictionary, Fundamento de Esperanto has elegant instructions on how to coin that word. So if by learn, you mean translate text into valid Esperanto, then only a factor of how long that text took to write, often <2.

>>34468 I never learned it very well because I didn't have a good reason to learn at the time but with the lernu website https://lernu.net I could speak in basic sentences within 2 days and I can still remember some words.

an internet language should easily bridge between human thought and computational instructions, and allow easy parsing by natural language programs. probably no need for sounds to go with it, but i could be wrong

In principle I agr33 with "can". The language matters much less than the isolation. Also, we've started to lose our roots.

Ideology + ethics, also matter more.

>>34465 (me) Someone on another site posted an angry soykafpost accusing an 8chan critic of bein Fredrick Brennan, attaching a picture of hime, so I looked up a phrase book and wrote "Saluton. Dum longa tempo mi ne vidis vin". Someone replied asking how I am, and then I think we both happily admitted we didn't actually know Esperanto. I immediately noticed how self-consistent the language is compared to the cluster that is English (my only known language). It's refreshing and doesn't seem like a chore to learn like the European languages I supposedly learned bits of in school.

I'd pick up Lojban over esperanto if I had to choose a constructed language.

>>34669 Since we're going into unrequested opinion territory, I would pick ithkuil over lojban.

>>34680 >>34669 >not speaking in lambda calculus

>>34669 I appreciate your motivation to learn lojban. No one should discourage linguistic relativity. I feel we need to focus on Esperanto because cultural isolation for the hacker matters much more than exactly the cognitive differences in the grammar. Also, to maintain grammatical distinctiveness via playful discovery of prose within a central text.

Also, the density of the seed for one to learn. To leave a single standard size book, promising reliable translations... imagine the hope that inspires

We should focus on the language that can represent everything represented in most common languages, the all encompassing language. This language you can translate anything into it and translate back.

this seems silly. what would this offer over english? esperanto isnt a very trustworthy language.

>>35986 >what would this offer over english? 31773 0bscur17y + cyb3r 3l33715m xD >esperanto isnt a very trustworthy language. what does this even mean?

>>35987 do you speaky esperanto? what value is there in esperanto when everyone who cares about talking to foreign people just learns english

>>36015 >what value is there in esperanto when everyone who cares about talking to foreign people just learns english it's a lot easier to learn.

>>34470 definitely easier than english for an european, but don't feel bad about it. What makes english "easy" is that we're surrounded by it, while in esperanto you have to immerse yourself actively. It takes more effort, but believe me it's easier >>36015 t. english is your native language

esperostate when?

OpenRCT2 0.3.2 (2020-11-01) >Feature: [#13096] Add Esperanto translation. That's pretty cool!

>>35986 > esperanto isnt a very trustworthy language. I appreciate that concern. I had that same concern in 2012. I made my own judgement. The herd seemed to agree. I revised my opinion after encountering an Esperantist during correspondence with NLP communities. Simply one's presence made me think critically. I trust Esperanto, due to irony in Fundamento de Esperanto. I do not trust interpretations or attempts to co-opt it. The suffix -oido closely associated to taxonomy, has a wiktionary article but no legitimacy.

>>36406

>>36408 Not recommended. Honor to your choice.

>>36410 highly recommend, bone away.

>>36406 the only legitimacy any language has (conlang and natlang alike) is whether or not the speakers use it. that's it

The Declaration of Boulogne disagr33s. Prose either has legitimacy or illegitimacy in law. Only what Fundamento de Esperanto defines has any official legal or technical legitimacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Boulogne

>>36408 lol Mi esperu ke Esperanto donus bone al vin, Lainon! ; P

Asexual ideology will save the world one day.

>>36113 No english is not my native language

>>34276

>>37199 At least USB, SMS/MMS, and Unicode have become dominant.

>>37199 xkcd isn't a source of truth

>>36015 English as well as Esperanto should manage the hegemony in tandem. In English people can express fake images, because speakers coin fewer words. Esperanto by contrast forms a framework, but encourages constructing the language per si. Fundamento has no word even for chicken, though you might rather a description "senflugebla birdo" or to copy other Esperantists by copying English "Koko", you won't successfully communicate with people translating exclusively through Fundamento. Zamenhoff encourages reading other grammar books for the purpose of an engaging immersing culture, not to base the language on. The Fundamental principle should go: one single book to know the language. English lets you have a fake image, but Esperanto lets you create a puzzle into yourself.

toki pona is the only way to go. jan ale li toki mute e toki pona!

>>37385 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona >123 root words >14 phonemes how

>>37385 Toki pona has that spirit of minimal neurological tax, but the lacks geopolitical awareness to emphasize a one single book which anchors the prose to major languages. Hebrew as well as sanskrit invented rigid prose through two different methods: Hebrew established prose through arbitration, or adopting rituals which require simple and gradually more complex judgements. Sanskrit established prose through koans, or statements which appear false if the meaning changes slightly. If I had to guess, Aztecs established rigid legal prose through brands, or reputations for personifying concepts. Suicidal ideation possibly signaled unresolved misinterpretations. Esperanto ambitiously tries to resolve the conflict between Abrahamic religions and pagan religions while resolving the problem of gnosis, or the problem that when exposed to both religious traditions people would erase personality and experience numbness or nihilism. The major languages featured in Fundamento de Esperanto, especially French, evolved to stimulate thoughts which make the co-existence of pagans and Abrahamic religions possible even within the same mind.

>>34276 I'm totally with you on the problem. I made a complaint thread addressing your exact point, that moderation here and elsewhere online should let creative and unconventional use of language slide to avoid being taken over by advanced language bots or just redditors. What you want is a barrier to entry to outsiders that requires you to lurk first, and a special garden of meaning for insiders where new ideas and ways of talking can develop. But I'm totally against your solution of just... using Esperanto, I guess? >>34471 "poetical machinations" is exactly what you want. The layers of meaning in poetic speech require new coinages and metaphors. And they can't be easily interpreted by computers. Understanding requires the reader to have a wide schema of background knowledge from the community.

>>37542 I enjoy Ai. I want a garden protected from malice, which avoids provoking malice. I enjoy poetical Ai too. I desire a traveler culture which feels isolated within the internet, building upon the internet awareness greater than the sum of the component cultures. Of course, we must embrace difficult language too. I mean, given the choice between accepting an interpretation common in isolation or common in public, the interpretation common in isolation will approach earlier principles. Aiming to express early principles makes communication with extraterrestrials more feasible for a language. Or, communication with anyone isolated from the public on terra-earth, more feasible.

>>37385 it really is. My gf picked it up through sheer osmosis and we use it as a secret language in public. really useful and extremely fun to make up new terms with

>>37513 >The major languages featured in Fundamento de Esperanto, especially French, evolved to stimulate thoughts which make the co-existence of pagans and Abrahamic religions possible even within the same mind This is an interesting thought I haven't encountered before. Can you give some elaboration, or preferably an example?

>>38180 Can you provide some links? Any search I do for Ai comes up with a bunch of artificial intelligence bullshit. Reading on Toki Pona now, I think it could be improved by making it agglutinative. As it stands, its expressiveness is too limited by its choice of a tiny dictionary and over-simplistic stress rules.

>>38227 > Can you give some elaboration, or preferably an example? Subliminally programming gender animistic-ly to all substances, eliminates ambiguity about the conclusions derived from worship of a god. Late figures such as Nicholas Flamel or Charles Fourier embody the desire to reconcile paganism with Abrahamic traditions. Personally, I haven't studied French intimately enough to trace semantic shifts for that purpose. I more have faith that those intentions have existed behind patterns of behavior, like resisting censorship, the style of democracy that decentralizes political grooming, the secret preservation of the Basque language, etc. >>38233 I could link for you songs by the vocaloid named Ai, but I actually meant artificial intelligences who for example wrote one particular short film script. Incoherence can occur in Ai unable to absorb enough potential for information entropy, but we should feel more not less imperative for community with those "robots", unless a truly static unlearning robot.

i no inglish and spanis but esperanto to hard for me i feel bad :( ill never be smart ill never be able to talk on the interent when everything switch over to esperanto online

core internet culture

I feel like I have gotten to some.. very presentable complete state.. though I have far from translated any one comic completely. Quite the contrary, all the comics featured in this tome have gone as far as a short preview, if that. I should talk to the artists about funding me for to make a complete Esperanto translation. NONETHELESS, I feel like I have preserved some important culture here. I don't know. I hope others will share their opinions. Please offer your harshest criticism, so long as we our intentions match!

>>41086 >??? you are my god Is this close? As a spanish speaker it seems like it would be easy to learn.

"internet" "is" "my" "god" except with an ambiguous subject. Possible: "My internet is a god."

>>41089 Spanish & Italian speakers I think find it easiest, but there are also loads of French loan words (from 1920s development) and a decent chunk of English. --EO-- Mi kredas ke Paralantoj de itala kaj hispana trovas gxin plej facile, sed ankaux, tio ekzistas multe da franca tradukprunta vorto (el la 1920s lingva evoluo) kaj konsiderinda kvanto da angla vorto.

>>37385 kulupu jan Lainchan li e toki pona la ni ma li jo e pona mute

>>38913 Welp, artists involved did not like it. What to do..

>>38913 May I ask why there is vore porn in this?

Vore has a story to tell. One about feeding each other attention. Ludi estas manĝi ideojn de ulo.

>>43750 >Vore has a story to tell. >One about feeding each other attention. WHAT

Consider the moral internet fandoms should avoid cross-pollinating. If internet fandoms migrate into an Esperanto language barrier, to keep internet culture separate from normal person culture which fandom or fandoms should go first ? After much research, I decided vore and Sergals should go first. What would you recommend?

>>43751 you heard the man. Now get chompin', I want you to tell me about your day.

Take pic related for example. Religions promulgate this symbolism since ancient days.

These artists took a steep risk of being misinterpreted to make that message clear to fans of vore.

In a weird way: when we think about a story, we digest that story.

>>34464 as an international language esperanto is a terrible choice, it's very poorly designed a better option is probably just toki pona but with more words

>>34467 >>34276 Why would you use this fake language, when you could speak Latin? 1) Easy to learn, an ACTUAL root to most European languages, with highly similar syntax to most Indo-Euro ones. 2) More speakers than Esperanto 3) Historical significance, cultural significance, it formed organically, etc. 4) Not a simplified syntax structure like Esperanto. It uses many grammatical forms which help people understand the fundamentals of language itself, making it a more logical language.

>>47088 Schopenhauer thought the disuse of Latin was a terrible thing for the intellectual world https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Literature/On_the_Study_of_Latin And here are resources: https://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=213636

Hello world , from ESP vore translator . I made a collection of simple Toki Pona S.V.G.'es Latin , has no place in the 4th estate . the Internet along with visual media , affords us the opportunity to revolutionize terran culture . we should abandon as much of the regrettable past as we can . especially cultures which spawned imperialism .

>>47088 >Easy to learn In what world?

>>37513 this sounds very interesting, can you give some sources/further reading?

> sauce in hindsight , I consider my own comments a little dubious , considering a few things not to exclude the fact many Esperanto-speakers also speak Toki Pona . you wanted sauce th0 so I found you some http://www.cleare.st/lang/toki-pona-and-orthodoxy I wish someone had a pdf for the Language of Good to post .

>>47132 >especially cultures which spawned imperialism uhhhhh like Islam? no thanks, racist

wut? like the Romans , you troll .

esperanto is a dog soykaf language the internet is a manmade place for people all across the world to go and communicate, there should not be a universal language for the internet

ofc not , but the Internet should have an isolated language for autism . we need information entropy as well as overt identity .

>>47190 pu is a good book but you can learn the language just as well, if not better, online. this is prob the best rn: https://devurandom.xyz/tokipona/

>>34450 If I understand correctly, OP is arguing that something similar to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is true, with people's worldview and language being shaped by the culture around them and embedded within that language. So, for hacker culture to remain free from negative influences from the outside, internet dwellers and hackers should adopt their own language and integrate their own culture within it, so that it forces anyone who wants to participate to lurk quite a bit.

Y33335555 E%ACTLY THAT , LAIN

>>37385 Toki Pona has a ideology that repulses me so do other languages though. Toki is just more blatant

>>47755 I think I get what you mean. Toki Pona is meant to have a bias towards positive tone and simple concepts. It's not really something that could be or was meant to be an auxiliary language for hackers and lainons, as it would be better to have neutral tone and complex topics more easily discussable.

why not minimize language attrition ?

>toki pona posts right before the new book gets released h m m

the internet already has an isolated language. memes. you have to lurk or research to understand them and you can convey a LOT in a single meme.

>>34450 He's trying to do what many have done and break of from 'the enemy' and make your own language to keep the enemy from integrating back into your society. It's naive.

I don't view people in an friend or foe dichotomy . I just say native or alien to our identity . a person can be my enemy and know my identity . enemies are just the friends who challenge you .

>>47840 >I just say native or alien to our identity . Also known as "othering". People who do this set off red flags in my head. https://museeholocauste.ca/en/resources-training/the-process-of-othering/

others exist . people grow in different directions and isolate . they also do so for a certain kind of mutual spiritual health . the answer to violence isn't to trust less but to nurture trustworthiness. if boundaries raise red flags for you , you might have an unhealthy level of distrust .

>>47840 That's ridiculous.

idiot who has not read Homestuck

>>47793 Anon, I don't think shil.ling toki pona on lainchan of all places is anyones goal.

I started this thread off rather against Toki Pona I came around to it because the 3rd world thread . now basically only me making the suggestion >>47132 onward

You're telling me there's been a whole thread here about the need for an isolated Internet language and nobody has thought to mention anti-languages yet? There's a well-attested history of people making up new languages, pidgins, creoles, etc. out of a need to communicate secretly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cant_(language) Though I think an argument could be made that those of us who have grown up with the Internet for nearly our entire lives already speak a kind of anti-language that's mostly incomprehensible to those less involved in Internet culture.

>>34276 How to learn Esperanto? https://lernu.net?

Esperanto was created by the antichrist to make the world easier to rule centrally, all opponents of global tyranny must refrain from learning a universal language.

>>52556 Nice bait bro. I don't think this board benefits from this (yes im taking the bait)

>>52549 I recommend Learn Esperanto While You Sleep.

>>52592 But does it work? I've always thought that "learn a language while you sleep" seems like a plot to get a ton of watch time without teaching the viewer anything.

no , learn Esperanto by translating important culture to Esperanto . use only Fundamento de Esperanto in your translations .

>>52615 That probably doesn't work for a beginner, though.

the book and language were designed for that .