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What are you going to do once the pandemic is over? What if it doesn't end? I'm from the U.S., and since they've cut the extended benefits, I'm going to run out of unemployment money pretty soon. I've been collecting money for the last few months and saving most of it luckily. The thing is, I have fuarrrk all of an idea what to do once it's all over. Many of the jobs that I could do are/will be gone. Things are never going to be the same socially. I don't have any marketable skills. I really want to move out of the soykafhole state/country I live in. Anyone else feeling this way? It feels so fuarrrked.

I didn't get unemployment due to very unfortunate timing. I just got a warehouse job for a few months instead. Decent pay, union benefits, etc. Not as nice as sitting on my ass but at least it beats starving (or working at walmart). Maybe you could go that route? As for myself I'm starting my second year grad school. Got my teaching gig back for the fall so I'm not super worried about how long this thing takes. Grad TAs are unionized there too and I have a nine month contract so I'm kind of hard to lay off.

use of the word 'pandemic' implies that there is a new global outbreak. This is no longer the case, outbreaks are currently localized and most places have the disease pretty well managed. What we have now is yet another disease which will periodically have outbreaks. It's not ever going to go away, just like the flu never goes away. Saying "we are in pandemic" or "there is still a pandemic" is a neologism that I really hate. It just stokes fear without really providing any meaningful information. Not to say that there is no danger from the virus, there is very serious danger, but it has been exaggerated and politicized by sensationalist news media. People used to live with all kinds of crazy infectious diseases spreading completely wild all the time and in a lot of places they still do. We'll just have to get used to it like they did, if we don't we'll all die of collective insanity... although here in the US that was basically a foregone conclusion anyway.

>>31002 They won't hire me for a warehouse job because I don't have a driver's license. Most are like that sadly. But really, I don't know if I'd even want to work in that kind of field again. Suppose that coronavirus is the real deal, why would anyone choose to work for minimum wage at a slave tier job and risk getting sick and then being condemned to be bankrupted by American hospital fees? Ideally I need to find out a way to overcome the need to even leave my house and make a living somehow. Unless they started paying you enough for the crappy jobs I'm qualified for that it outweighs the risk of getting sick.

>>31004 >They won't hire me for a warehouse job because I don't have a driver's license At UPS you just need some form of ID, not necessarily a license or passport. I forget exactly what they accept but it even includes soykaf like utility bills iirc. >why would anyone choose to work for minimum wage at a slave tier job Because the alternative is not having any money. I got subsidized health insurance and the pay was a bit higher than minimum wage (like $15/hr... not great but slightly above gas-station-cashier-tier). If you have better options definitely take them but you made it sound like you're fuarrrked. >Unless they started paying you enough for the crappy jobs I'm qualified for that it outweighs the risk of getting sick Are you immunocompromised or something? It would suck to get sick but it's probably not going to fuarrrk you up too bad if you're reasonably healthy. You might even get some neetbux out of the deal if they pass another corona relief package. I just avoided seeing people outside my job to prevent spreading, but it sounds like you're doing that already. If you live in a city maybe look at working in a public sector job, like in public transit or something. Those guys all striked and got hazard pay in the city near me.

I don't know, to be honest. For once I'm glad to live in a smaller city because the pandemic hasn't hit us too hard here. Just a mask recommendation and a week-long lockdown that didn't even affect most people. Nothing's really changed for me, so if things go back to normal I doubt I'd feel the difference. Maybe I'll be a little less depressed. It does give me another reason not to live in the big cities. I already wanted to avoid living there because it's more expensive, traffic is worse, crime rates are higher, etc. Now it's also because of how vulnerable they are to epidemics. It's too bad, too, because I don't know how much longer I can stand living where I do now. It's mind-numbing here. Nothing to do, nowhere to go, no one interesting to talk to because they've all left for the big cities. Just old farts, gen-Xers, and chain stores.

>>31010 Embrace peace anon. A lot of the time nothing is better than something.

>>31000 I just want to take care for my cat and after she passes away I'll kill myself. This is all the planning I have done for my future. I don't care about anything else. I have a passion that's been helping me out but I don't care if I'll have to quit it since it's fruitless. I don't care about the Internet, there is nothing on it that I like or want. Tinkering with Linux is more of a past-time than anything productive, I do nothing with this computer except write rants online and offline. I might print all the stuff I've written so far and continue on paper. I don't watch anything or download anything, no porn, no movies, no netflix. I closed my decade old Steam account and didn't care about losing all the videogames. I haven't played videogames since. I haven't enjoyed food in years and I'm avoiding alcohol since I tend to drink everything I get my hands on. Paradoxically I am the most comfortable person I know when it comes to the rona. My only worry in life is that something might happen to my cat or something might happen to me that will leave my cat without an owner. This responsibility is the only thing keeping me alive although every day is more unbearable and I'm functioning less and less so I get neglectful.

>>31012 Why don't you go into a degenerative frenzy instead, if life is so meaningless? You'll have nothing to lose otherwise.

I have 0 idea. Graduating this spring but the pandemic has pretty much destroyed the industry I've been trying to get into. Maybe I'll apply to a monastery or something? It'd be hard not to own anything or live on my own terms anymore, but in some ways it's more fulfilling life than working at Wal-mart forever, no hope for gf or anything like that.

>>31031 I dropped out of college when covid came out, because I felt like the world was ending, now signing up for online classes (I hate it) I will make it through tho. Look for a job that is going to be in demand post-covid, and don't forget that the economy is gonna crash around 2021-2022

>>31027 bad idea

>>31036 >bad idea Probably

Even if this "pandemic" will end, the man will stall and delay for as long as possible, so far it helped the big guys imensly. The scare is here and its here for good, no matter how it goes the pandemic measures will be taken and sold to the people. To the people on the top this is just big profit, they actually benefit from people being in more soykafty situations. I have seen this soykaf coming for decades, where else could decades of overpopulation and polution lead us to. My plan is to go off the grid, scavange and grow my own food, i have a good chance, but if it doesnt work out its pointless. Starving to death or whatever is preferable to enduring any more of this fuarrrked up doomed society. Id be more worried once voting in murica goes on, its a powder keg waiting to blow. Its not like things are really more fuarrrked, this soykaf was coming a long time and people just didnt do jack soykaf other than keep running towards the cliff.

>>31027 >Why don't you go into a degenerative frenzy instead what does this mean

>>31045 >what does this mean To at least go out with a bang instead of whimper (not encouraging shooting up someplace). So, do as many drugs as possible. Otherwise it's muh cat, muh linux, muh suicide.

>>31012 Sensitive, good people vanish when conditions get harsh, the harsh seem to want this. What is good (like your cat) is still a worthwhile goal in life. Fight for what is good with me, depressed fren.

>>31042 Like it or not Anon, you will forever be dependent on the system, there is simply no way to avoid being connected to the rest of society, there is no distance or place you can hide where the system won't find you one way or the other.

>>31068 If I gave any value to hedonism like a consumer robot I'd be living a consumer robot life right now. There were things I tried to do to find some meaning but I had to admit I was just wasting time because nothing but hedonism has any value today. You're telling me to do the thing I am incapable of doing.

the pandemic has not has a significant effect on my life because it is so meaningless and small. i had no career goals or chances before the pandemic and none after.

>>31091 I can and will break free from this prison society. A man in america managed to live in the woods stealing stuff 26 years without being ever seen once by another human. There is plenty of food and everything else i need growing out there. I got all my stuff, the soykaf society provides is at best for distraction and most of the time just plain poison. If the system wants to find and take me they can take my dead body because i will not allow them to take me alive. But i know this soykaf will collapse in on itself, its just a matter of surviving it out, i look at people nowdays and can see clearly they have no chance at becoming old. Nobody is going to stop me, they can kill me if they want, its a better alternative than ever again bending down to society. Im going to live to tell the tale of the fall of western civilization, but by then nobody but me will be around.

I don't even know what "over" would mean, there is no going back to normal since the problem it created are long term, from economy to exposing society's problems.

>>31156 I said it from the very beginning, this is 9/11 2.0

The pandemic will "end" I think in about 3-4 years when a vaccine gets released. I think it might take longer due to people (i.e contrarians) who don't believe that there is a pandemic anyway. That the pandemic is one big hoax. I wonder. If word about the coronavirus came about in China and the world got to know about the death tolls and nobody was freaking out, with the government telling them that since the death rate of this virus is about 0.0003% or whatever and to continue life as normal, no lockdowns, no quarantines, no mask mandates or anything, what would the contrarians do? The ones who don't believe anything the government tells them? Would they post soykaf on Facebook about government coverups regarding an impending pandemic? Would they take extra care to sanitize their hands and stay six feet away from other people? Would they wear masks ?

>>31317 >in about 3-4 years when a vaccine gets released Is there reason to believe it'll take that long? I remember around the time this whole thing started I'd heard that there were experts saying that a vaccine would take about a year to develop, but I realize that people saying soykaf on the news might not be all that accurate.

I already pretty much consider it over. Things have been relaxing around here for almost a month now and the disease's spread continues to slow. I only wear masks and stuff to be polite. My friends and I started doing dnd in person instead of on discord recently, it's nice. One thing is, my life didn't really change much. I was always a bit of a hermit beforehand, and I remain mostly a hermit now. Only difference is that you still can't go to live music shows, that's pretty much the only thing I really miss. I think I'll start going to smaller local shows, there's a small metal scene here that I want to check out. Besides that, I'm going to see if I can get into grad school, although I have heard that a lot of places are shrinking their departments in my field because it is not a money-making field, which worries me because I am not the best of the best from a top tier uni. If I don't get into grad school I might just save up for a trailer and move up to the hills to study on my own. Until then I have steady work with one of my best friends, I have a room at my family's house, life ain't that bad.

I'm an author. Nothing has changed for me since everything started, nothing will change after it ends, whenever that may or may not be. It seems to me selfish to think this way, but honestly, I couldn't care less about what's going on in the world outside my bedroom, so long as I have internet access to do research and upload books, and my computer continues working to enable these activities. I guess in an extreme case, if having necessities deliverable or within reach stopped happening, that'd be pretty bad, and if none of my books ever sold again, that'd be bad too, but both of those scenarios seem fairly unlikely. >>31012 Our situations sound somewhat similar, actually, despite the difference in our immediate goals. Best of luck to you and your cat, hope she stays healthy for a long time. >>31042 Burger votes literally mean nothing. It's an oligarchy--every major politician is backed by businesses that don't care whatsoever about the country's citizens except to make money. People will freak out a little after the results because the news tells them they're supposed to, but it's unlikely anything significant will change. >>31331 Another person who's situation I find relatable in a way. It's somewhat comforting to know I'm not the only one who's getting by without much changing in my life. Whether you go to grad school or end up doing your own thing out of a trailer, I wish you luck in your future endeavors.

>>31161 >I said it from the very beginning, this is 9/11 2.0 I think it's more like an equivalent of the Suez Canal Crisis. It's a problem that the US is culturally incapable of overcoming, because it requires unity of purpose, willingness of the citizens to sacrifice, and willingness of leadership to provide materially for citizens no longer able to sustain themselves. The US has had deep cultural fractures for its entire existence, its citizens demand total personal freedom even if it means harming their fellow citizens, and its leaders have been beholden to dark financial powers for a century. COVID will be the event that future historians point to as the no-return point in the fall of American empire. It's not the cause of its fall, but it is an accelerant that sharply increased the rate of the fall.

>>31395 How do you not treat people like soulless consumers? I've lost all respect for them. If I were a writer I'd have a female pen-name (maybe say I'm latinx and lesbian) and write soykafty erotica for women. I wouldn't even try doing something other than that, not even if I were assured that people would like it, because I think they deserve nothing. This is actually serious, how do I regain some respect for people? I only see a bunch of far larvae whose only relationship with you is loudly groaning with their mouth open on their couch, waiting to receive sugary food that is as pre-digested as possible.

>>31434 To be honest, our views of people in general aren't too far off, but I think the difference is the value you and I see in writing. I mean this as no insult, but it sounds like your attitude toward publishing is largely that it's to provide another product to compete with what the mindless consumers of the world are already enjoying. In that sense, attempting to write something original or thought-provoking in any way is pointless, as it's equivalent to producing a product no one has the attention span to consume and enjoy properly. It'd be comparable to trying to feed cheesecake to ducks in a pond. In this regard, I actually don't think respect for people is fruitful, as it only leads to disappointment. However, I don't think that's the answer you were looking for, since that's basically just a statement of your view as I understand it (and, of course, if I'm wrong, please don't hesitate to say so). I think a better way to understand writing isn't as an exercise in creating a product, but in understanding creation itself. That probably sounds really pretentious, so let me clarify: writing books isn't what I think is important, but writing for its own sake, improving at the craft each day as much as I can to better acknowledge the value it has independently of the society around it, to contribute something more meaningful to the collective of existing literature not for any one person's sake, but because good books are a good thing to exist. Of course, I'd ideally like to make enough money off of this to support myself as much as I need money, but even this I consider an afterthought to the act of creation. The books exist not because I feel that anyone deserves to read them, but because the books should exist for their own sake. In this way, I feel I understand what God might've felt in creating humanity, whether such a being is to be understood as metaphysically literal or ideologically symbolic. Again, I worry that I've come across as pretentious, so to bring things down to a more humble level, I'll provide a clearer answer to your question, as well as a final anecdote on writing. If you want to regain respect for people, you've got to learn to stop placing value in people that are meaningless--anyone who's as mindless as you say people are doesn't deserve your thought space. Clearly if you're here, you must think there's some value in communication with other humans, and if that's the case, you can't have lost all respect for every single person that exists. What you should do, then, is stop trying to respect valueless people and attribute the respect and mental processing you'd provide them to the people you actually think are valuable. As for writing, if everything I said before about creation sounds too high-minded or idiotic to be sensible, you can also think of it as a therapeutic exercise. At least, that's what it is for me to some limited degree, and I'd argue that having a creatively expressive hobby may help you vent some of your frustrations with the less tolerable people in the world. I know you didn't ask about that, but I thought it might help in addition to what you did ask about. If I've misunderstood anything you said or asked about, or if I've rambled too much and not made much sense or said anything useful, I apologize. Regardless, I'd like to hear your thoughts on all of this if you have anything you wish to share.

>>31443 Okay, good God thanks for taking me seriously. >writing for its own sake this is the part that grinds to a halt in my head, because then you say >to contribute something more meaningful to the collective of existing literature not for any one person's sake, but because good books are a good thing to exist I think "if a tree falls in a forest and noone can hear it, does it make any sound?" A book does not exist without a reader. Otherwise it would hold the same value as ink blots on paper, or random words. Do you agree? There is always someone else on the other side. This is why I cannot think such a thing as >but because the books should exist for their own sake Because as I see it, a book does not exist without a reader on the other hand. Just like a language does not factually exist if nobody speaks it or knows it (that's different from a language being dead... just like a dead man exists. What doesn't exist is someone who's completely forgotten). >Clearly if you're here, you must think there's some value in communication with other humans, and if that's the case, you can't have lost all respect for every single person that exists. People in this place disappoint me as much as those anywhere else, if not more. There's nothing more bitter than a space filled with people who are against the "system" who hold the same mindset as the consumers said system is built from. That's mostly why I have lost all faith. It's not because the masses are world-eating maggots. The bitterness is that there is no different mindset, all that changes is the flavor of one's maggotry. Or maybe everyone here is wealthy and out of touch because they believe that anyone but the rich elites can create anything "in their spare time", after they come back from their cushy 9 to 5. I have no other explanation. >you can also think of it as a therapeutic exercise That I do, but why share it? Something - one of many things - that tipped me off: there's a game on Steam where you write "nice things" to people who are down and anonymously write their woes. Much like a /vent/ thread but in videogame format. Isn't this just vile? That your struggles are someone else's entertainment? This is how people look at each other. Why should my "therapy" become someone else's free entertainment?

>>31432 I think you're spot on, anon. What other historical turning points can you use in comparative turbulent empires? Tiberius Gracchus? Reichstag Fire?

>>31447 Thanks for your reply. Again, if I misunderstand anything or am not clear in anything I say, feel free to say so. >A book does not exist without a reader. Otherwise it would hold the same value as ink blots on paper, or random words. Do you agree? I actually don't. Suppose all people went extinct except one last person, and this person decides to write books to kill time since they have no other people to interact with. Are their books meaningless because there's no one around to read them? If we choose to believe so, then this hypothetical last man alive has nothing their life can accomplish. Any value their existence could have is only tied to whether or not any other sentient beings exist to acknowledge their value. I'd argue that this very view would be incredibly problematic were we to continue with the line of thinking that most if not all people are mindless consumers incapable of dynamic thought, since it would dictate that the only things which could be valuable are whatever such a mindless society deems as worthwhile. Even aside from personally not wanting such a value system to be what reality functions by, I think such a system inherently can't be what society functions by, because it wouldn't offer any explanation for how we've gotten to where we are today. If all anyone cared about was mindless consumption and base pleasures, what need would there have ever been to engage in warfare, or advance technology? Surely there were enough empty places to bask in comfortable sunlight or shade during primitive times such that no one would have to fight for any one spot, or any one shank of boar to eat. Conflict ultimately comes from a difference in beliefs; if we're to understand the matter this way, then it seems belief is what lends value to reality--or, in other words, what we choose to think of as valuable. I think this is much closer to how reality actually functions, as evidenced most prominently in recent years how certain words have risen to such a degree of offense that they're nearly punishable by law in many places. These words only have the value we attribute to them; if society collectively decided that these words have no place in the modern world and therefore have no meaning or offense, such words would disappear entirely. >Or maybe everyone here is wealthy and out of touch because they believe that anyone but the rich elites can create anything "in their spare time", after they come back from their cushy 9 to 5. To be honest, I think this is just a matter of personal ambition. Some people are more ambitious than others, such that some can create and achieve while others wallow in self-pity and lust. Not trying to sound high and mighty or talk myself up, but even though I identified myself as an author earlier, I can only call myself an amateur at this point, as I've really only published one book and am nearing the completion of my second. As such, I still work a day job to support myself, but as I said in my original post, I'm not affected at all by the outside world as long as I can keep writing. Things might change at my day job, but nothing significant enough to uproot my way of life has happened as of yet. If that did, I've got enough money saved that I can manage decently enough for a few months, as I live alone and am an incredibly frugal, almost miserly spender, and have saved a substantial amount by this way of life. All this to say, creating something in my spare time after my 'cushy' 9 to 5 is essentially what I'm doing each day. I'm exhausted from it, but I couldn't possibly live any other way. Maybe my ambition has blinded me, and maybe that's why I feel the way I do about the innate value in creation. >Isn't this just vile? That your struggles are someone else's entertainment? This is how people look at each other. Why should my "therapy" become someone else's free entertainment? That game sounds like a means to provide people seeking self pity yet another outlet to whine about their meaningless problems that they could easily solve if they chose to be competent in any way. Even so, I don't view my writing as therapy that entertains others, mostly because I know for a fact that no one who's read my book has understood the symbolism and philosophy underscoring the narrative's themes. Again, this probably sounds very pretentious, and I do apologize if I come across this way quite frequently, but I find it difficult to speak of these topics in any other way that clearly communicates my thoughts without sacrificing the truth of what I'm feeling. All this to say, I view it less as therapy that entertains others (especially not for free, as this is still a product I'm delivering, as outlined earlier) than therapy that happens to take a form none will recognize as therapy. If someone who didn't know me could read what I've written and tell me what it is I'm venting about, I'd honestly be surprised, even with how overt I think I am in some passages. In any case, I'm actually enjoying this discussion quite a bit, and hope it doesn't put you off for me to say so. Please, if you have any further responses, I'd like to hear them. Neither of us has to be valuable in any way to place value in this discussion and what comes of it. I've chosen the name Worthless to express this idea.

>>31454 I think it's hard to find direct historical parallels. But speaking as a non-American, one thing that I've always noticed about them is how they always seem to be a hair's breadth away from open hatred against each other. Urban versus suburban versus rural, south versus north, east versus west, state versus state, city versus city, town versus town, neighbourhood versus neighbourhood. When economic times are good, that antagonism is suppressed. When times get bad and anger rises, not so much. How that plays out is impossible to predict.

>>31461 It's actually insane how far we've continued as a country despite seemingly two halves of the population superficially despise each other. Maybe they need each other. If the other side didn't exist for them to antagonize, they would be forced to look within themselves.

>>31456 >Are their books meaningless because there's no one around to read them? If I encrypted all my posts and you didn't have the key, would they mean anything to you? >If we choose to believe so, then this hypothetical last man alive has nothing their life can accomplish. Any value their existence could have is only tied to whether or not any other sentient beings exist to acknowledge their value. That's why it's such a serious thing for me. >It wouldn't offer any explanation for how we've gotten to where we are today. If all anyone cared about was mindless consumption and base pleasures, what need would there have ever been to engage in warfare, or advance technology? If base pleasures are defined as the absence of pain, then every man who died by another man's hand died in the name of pleasures. The advancement of mankind is directly tied to the desire to accumulate wealth. This is such a base driving force for this species that even if you are not driven by money you will still need it to survive. >To be honest, I think this is just a matter of personal ambition. Some people are more ambitious than others. That is true, but ambition is also a finite resource. Keeping it up is a matter of opportunity and time. I don't know what your day job is and how long you have been fueling this ambition, but resources are finite. And the biggest drain is not your 9 to 5 (which doesn't exist where I live) or your physical state (even through terrible health I could find the energy to work) but people, their entitlement and their mindset by which you are nothing but a service. I will not make specific examples but I've been told things that were straight up infuriating. People take your work and do whatever they want with it because it's not yours, it's theirs. And this happens outside of this context too, in social interaction. I've always been a giving person but maybe people have changed or I have changed, but pro bono always meant "what goes around comes around" while now it seems to mean "let the maggots pick your bones and don't forget to smile". Granted, I did believe in the meritocratic, hard work pays off narrative at first and I'm sure I've called others lazy for saying what I'm saying right now. Perspective is also a matter of resources. >such that some can create and achieve What about those who create and never achieve? Do you believe in the narrative that people always achieve what is due to them based solely on their merit? Because that is simply a lie. There are countless people who deserve and get nothing. There are also people who are cheats and hacks who get everything based on variables that have nothing to do with the thing they're getting credit for. >That game sounds like a means to provide people seeking self pity yet another outlet to whine about their meaningless problems that they could easily solve if they chose to be competent in any way. I don't play the game but not really, actually I've read quite often that people should go to a therapist instead of posting there. But whether or not those people's issues are real or solvable (having been told by wealthy people who never lifted a finger their own life that my own very real issues aren't real I'd rather not judge so broadly) isn't the issue. People wouldn't be so engaged about "doing good" on that app if people just used it to idly chitchat. In the end this is the reason why people give a soykaf about total strangers in the /vent/ threads here or the various suicidewatch Reddit subs, it is the same sort of entertainment-activism that wraps politics, gender, and what have you. I am not hostile to the idea of making product and selling product. I just despise this modern take on entertainment that is nothing but an empty stimulus. I can't poke a corpse with a cattle prod and claim it's alive.

>>31464 >If I encrypted all my posts and you didn't have the key, would they mean anything to you? This conversation has been interesting enough that I care for you insofar as hoping that your life isn't miserable. If your hypothetical encrypted posts can help in any way to affect this change, then I'd say they're a good thing. Since this possibility exists, those posts would mean something to me. Granted, this at first doesn't seem escape the relational value system I discussed earlier, but I'd argue that my care for someone who I've never met in person and likely will never know outside of the threads here can hardly be called self-serving, even if we want to split hairs and say I could be feeling good by talking about caring for someone else. At the end of the day, any good feeling that can come of that is far too insubstantial to be of any value to me. >The advancement of mankind is directly tied to the desire to accumulate wealth. There are plenty of developments that have nothing to do with the accumulation of wealth. If wealth were the sole motivation for anyone's actions, why would artists create when their careers are largely unsuccessful until they die? This sort of life would result in no wealth gained whatsoever. Furthermore, it could be argued that many religious/ideological systems are tied to the idea of abhorring wealth and what vices come of it--to name a few, the Abrahamic faiths and Buddhism particularly speak against wealth as a leading principle for one's life. If we want to shift the counterargument again and claim that the absence of pain is what people seek above all else, then again the self-denial preached by these belief systems would go against this. Or, to put it another way, if feeling good and not bad is all that matters, then why don't more Catholics sworn to abstinence allow themselves to masturbate? If the answer is that somehow the pleasure they gain in self-denial exceeds the collective they'd gain by allowing themselves whatever they please, I think there would need to be some serious evidence to support this, as it doesn't seem feasible to me. >I don't know what your day job is and how long you have been fueling this ambition, but resources are finite. This is a very good point, actually, so I'll be a little more specific about my circumstances to clarify my position. I've been writing since last November, and have a weekly average of 20,000 words written, on top of 50 hour work weeks between two day jobs. What this means is I've essentially cut off all unnecessary ties in my life--I have few friends and hobbies, and even less desire for these things. My one indulgence is periodic imageboard posting, but even that's something I can manage between writing sessions. All this to say, you could argue that I've maintained considerable ambition for this period, or that it's not even been a year and I'll burn out eventually. Either way, I can't validate or dispute your claim other than to live my life how I intend to from here on, going in much the same manner as I've been these past months. If ambition is a resource, then forgive me if I come across as arrogant, but I've at least proven to myself that it's a resource one can cultivate their aptitude for, and the upper limit for human beings is in fact very high. >I've always been a giving person but maybe people have changed or I have changed, but pro bono always meant "what goes around comes around" while now it seems to mean "let the maggots pick your bones and don't forget to smile". Unfortunately, the selfishness of others is pervasive no matter where you go. People are scum, plain and simple. At one of my jobs, I've been called by coworkers and customers a retard, a glitterboy, and worthless (heh), and this isn't even a comprehensive list. Not to mention, I'm often talked to at both of my jobs as though I'm an idiot and can't handle even simple tasks, probably because the people I'm around are used to dealing with idiots and have understandably grown jaded as a result. All in all, I wish the environments I were in were less negative an influence, but can't complain too much, as I'm still free to write as I do. I hope I haven't talked too much about myself personally, I don't want this to come across as a blogpost or me vying for attention, just wanted to give some perspective so it's clear that I can relate to quite a bit of what you're saying. >What about those who create and never achieve? Do you believe in the narrative that people always achieve what is due to them based solely on their merit? As mentioned earlier, many artists have died before their work is recognized by the world--in other words, I don't think success is entirely based on merit. My use of the word 'achieve' is less in a worldly sense (i.e. recognition, fame, wealth) and more a personal sense, relating back to my earlier comments on the innate value in creation. As for those who are successful without reason to be, I can only concede that this, too, is another indication of how unfair the world is, but the unfairness of the world can't diminish the value of creation in my eyes. >In the end this is the reason why people give a soykaf about total strangers in the /vent/ threads here or the various suicidewatch Reddit subs, it is the same sort of entertainment-activism that wraps politics, gender, and what have you. I suppose it wasn't clear from what I said, but that's sort of what I was implying about all of it. My brief comment about possible solutions to their problems is more related to my belief that most problems people complain about when they're complaining constantly for the sake of attention are problems that don't actually exist, things like 'Someone at school doesn't want to be my friend any more, now I only have ten friends, I'm going to kill myself.' This is perhaps a straw man, but I digress. >I am not hostile to the idea of making product and selling product. I just despise this modern take on entertainment that is nothing but an empty stimulus. I feel similarly. That's why I'm so insistent that the value in any creative work is what's instilled into it, not what society deems its value is. If someone spends years making something and it means the world to them, then even if that world of value can only ever exist for them, its existence is enough. The only case where I think this can't be justified is when creation becomes destruction for someone else, like if I wanted to build a statue by ripping pieces of wood from your house or wherever you live. Again, an extreme example, but I'm sure you're imaginative enough to understand how this idea correlates to more commonplace occurrences. >I can't poke a corpse with a cattle prod and claim it's alive. lol If you don't mind me asking, where are you from? You mentioned there aren't 9-to-5's where you're from. That could be a few places, but since we've been talking this long, I'm just curious about where in particular this might be. If you'd rather not answer, I understand and won't press the matter any further. It is just my curiosity speaking, after all.

>>31470 >why would artists create when their careers are largely unsuccessful until they die? Bohemians didn't exist before the 19th century, and this drive to create in poverty and misery wasn't even a Bohemian thing since like any other counter-culture movement it was built to create a community. It wasn't much of a thing at all. The desperate starving artist is largely a romanticized figure that is rooted in industrialization and the sensationalization of the person as a selling point for the product. It's a prototypical version of today's advertising "story". And that specific sentence was tied to the advancement of humanity, mostly driven by the "base pleasures", pain-killers like prosperity, connections, etc. which the arts didn't have much of a hand in (if anything, the opposite). >then why don't more Catholics sworn to abstinence allow themselves to masturbate? It's disingenuous to say this when I defined pleasures as absence of pain, but OK. Catholics today have no issues with masturbation (or anything un-Christian at all) Why has that changed? Because infringing those vows doesn't marginalize you from the Catholic community. It would be preposterous, and it would be suicidal for the Catholic church. There are many many Catholics who claim themselves Catholic, yet they'll eagerly switch to a more lax Catholicism as adhering to the strict religion doesn't give you any additional perks. Why do these people keep being Catholic even if they never pray or go to church? Want to know why? Because their community is also catholic. They baptize their kids because the other kids in the school are also baptized. This is also the whole point of fracturing a community - a schism - so that a comfortable framework can exist if a sizable minority disagrees with the changes. Today, this will never happen because comfort is not defined by belief, but it is entirely defined by wealth. I'm not even pointing the finger. I'm trying to figure out how to stop being a hardcore nihilist because it makes me uncomfortable, so seeking comfort is natural. Even the case where the creative person runs his life into the ground to create is a desperate attempt to seek comfort, but the comfort isn't there because comfort always subsists on a framework. There used to be a framework for the hermits who lived alone in the forest. People would go and make offers. Because those people were saints to the common man, and they took on a divine mission. Helping their mission gave you points to that divine right or whatever moral achievement society had established for helping philosophers/gurus/monks. The two figures involved wouldn't exist without the other. I'm not saying that people do this consciously or they're evil for it, but this mutuality, even the economic side of it, is what creates meaning in life. Human beings didn't evolve to be solitary predators like big cats, we're social monkeys. Our brains are built to cooperate on a very deep level, and meaning is tied to the role you have in the tribe. >I've been writing since last November, Yeah I suspected that. I don't want to dismiss you and predict that you'll fail because everyone has his own path, you might resonate better with people and all the stuff that falls broadly under "talent". But in my first 5 years I was very productive and enthusiastic too. It would be crazy to have a different attitude if you just started or even after a few years. A friend told me that I should have worked on my project on the side instead of going all in, he was right, but I think I still did good taking this path. That's how much I care, or cared, about it. I can't think of doing something else. >As mentioned earlier, many artists have died before their work is recognized by the world As I said before, this is a construct from the last century that went hand to hand with industrialization, mass production of information etc. The world wouldn't have recognized those martyrs of culture if advertisers didn't take it upon themselves to sell them to galleries. I cannot see the future but I am certain that posthumous recognition is already a thing of the past. And when I say this I imply that it was not the merit of the artists that made them famous or appreciated after their death (if that still counts as an achievement for the artist considering he's dead), as much as the skill of an advertiser or gallery owner. >but the unfairness of the world can't diminish the value of creation >That's why I'm so insistent that the value in any creative work is what's instilled into it, not what society deems its value is. But if you value creation alone then why did you mention ambition? It takes no ambition to just write. Your book could be awful. I assume you're going to publish your book? Maybe I am too strict in my reasoning but if in this thankless, soykafty world made of soykafty people something gave me pleasure and fullness on its own, why share it? Not with friends, not with family, but with the world, why? If you were driven by the act of creating alone, why do you take further steps to submit it to a largely hostile environment? >This is perhaps a straw man, but I digress. Those are mostly children but the reason why this is a thing among children in the first place is a direct result of how drama in a world without humanity or empathy can only exist as entertainment/stimulus. Ultimately I just want to understand how to feel fulfilled doing what I essentially think of as creative masturbation, or schizophrenic monologues with myself. Especially once you have known what it means to love or what it means to talk to a friend, it's difficult to feel satisfied with a surrogate experience that gives you no feedback or inherent role in anyone's life whatsoever.

>>31477 >but I think I still did good taking this path. That's how much I care, or cared, about it. I can't think of doing something else. About the same here, if that wasn't clear. Writing is my life right now--no friends or family to occupy my free time, and I'm busy enough with work the rest of the week to make 20,000 words a week its own task. Not that I mind in any way. Far from it, this is probably what I'll be spending the rest of my life doing. I can't imagine doing anything else with myself from here on, and have enough ideas for books that I could keep writing for a long time at my current rate (I estimate something like 7 or 8 years, assuming I don't go into a coma or anything). If you're published anywhere, I'd be interested in giving your work a look. >It takes no ambition to just write. Your book could be awful. Like I said, I've published one book already, so if you'd like, you can be the judge of that yourself. I've self published on Amazon, so their online reader on the store page lets you preview the first few chapters free of charge. If you actually do want to give it a look, I wouldn't mind critique. I don't think you'd do so, but I'd also appreciate not being harassed IRL or on social media. Disregard this entirely if you don't care to give it a look, either way is fine with me. https://tinyurl.com/TheEighthTitan >Not with friends, not with family, but with the world, why? If you were driven by the act of creating alone, why do you take further steps to submit it to a largely hostile environment? Because I'd like for writing to be my full-time job so I can spend more time creating. For that to ever happen, I need to publish and sell books. It might take a while to reach the point I'm looking to get to, but I'm young enough that I can spend some years this way. >I'm trying to figure out how to stop being a hardcore nihilist because it makes me uncomfortable >Ultimately I just want to understand how to feel fulfilled doing what I essentially think of as creative masturbation, or schizophrenic monologues with myself. This is one of the most cliche things I've ever said, but it's the truth: your attitude is the only thing you can affect when faced with an absurd, uncaring world. It's hard to say 'I'm going to keep trying to do what I love to do, because it's what I feel is best to devote my life to,' especially when the world will only burn you for living outside of what they consider to be normal, but it's like I said a few posts back, you can't attribute value to people like that or they'll keep hurting you. To me, such people are meaningless; if they only want to exist to spend money, then I'll hope maybe they throw a few dollars toward one of my books, but aside from that, what happens to them is of no concern to me. The only people that mean anything to me are those who are interesting to talk to, whether the conversations with such people are about my writing or anything else. Of course, I'd like to be able to discuss what I've written with someone who's read it with the intent to understand, but I'm patient enough to wait for that day as long as I need to, if it will ever come. >Especially once you have known what it means to love or what it means to talk to a friend, it's difficult to feel satisfied with a surrogate experience that gives you no feedback or inherent role in anyone's life whatsoever. It sounds to me like you don't actually think everyone's a maggot, like there are actually people you care(d) about. Maybe people like that are who you should value, to find that role in such a person's life. Hope I'm not coming across as insulting or insinuative by stating my thoughts on this.

>>31479 I've seen the link to your book, sadly I literally do not have 10$ or any amount of money for entertainment. Because of my life choices and things that are happening lately I'm in a really bad spot. I'm not a writer. >your attitude is the only thing you can affect That is true but that would take me some convincing. I agree with what David Foster Wallace said about God, but ultimately he couldn't manage to make himself a Christian and embrace religion on the sole basis of his reasoning. You cannot simply choose your beliefs like one chooses the color of his shirt. >The only people that mean anything to me are those who are interesting to talk to >It sounds to me like you don't actually think everyone's a maggot, like there are actually people you care(d) about. I've learned that talk is always very cheap. People love to use talk as a substitute for effort, help or money or whatever actual resource. Anyway I'm usually told at this point that I am entitled for complaining about the maggots' sense of entitlement. I don't think I'm the second coming of Christ or deserving of greatness even though I call people maggots. My greatest frustration at the end of the day comes from knowing that there is one clear way to break through all these walls and that's being a genius, and I'm painfully aware that I'm no genius... And of course, maggots love to play that card set impossibly high standards they don't really hold anything else up to (since their favorite consumption is always garbage) when it comes to justify other people's failures. So even if I did have talent or genius or whatever name you want to give the multiplier, I'd be told I wasn't genius enough by people who'll eagerly praise anything else no matter how low quality as long as it's advertised to them in a shiny packaging. While you worry about someone with a chip on his shoulder targeting you or doxxing you there are people who actively seek that outcome in order to signal that they're being victimized because it generates engagement and social credit. I'm appalled that considering how attention is now inherently valuable, like a pseudo-currency of human worth in this beggar economy, a professional victim and noise-maker is then worth infinitely more than someone who noiselessly contributes. Isn't it depressing? This is the first time this kind of role reversal happened, where a wigged and caked up hooker is actually more valuable than most people on a human level because she's a noisier individual and noise makes money.

>>31505 >I've seen the link to your book, sadly I literally do not have 10$ or any amount of money for entertainment. Ah, I'm sorry to hear things are that bad for you. If you'd like, I can share a PDF manuscript instead--to be honest, I'm not the kind of person that cares whether my book is read for free or not, as I'd rather it be read at all if it's going to be than for it to be kept from a potential reader by a price tag of any kind. Either way, I'll remind you that a portion is available for free that goes up through chapter 8. Just click on the cover art and it should let you view it. I don't mean to impose or anything, it's just that I'd like to provide you with something to read since you've expressed at least some interest. >I'm not a writer. I thought something you said implied otherwise, must be my mistake. >That is true but that would take me some convincing. >You cannot simply choose your beliefs like one chooses the color of his shirt. I'd argue that at some level, belief must be a choice, in that necessarily to believe in something, you must choose not to not believe in it. This isn't to say it's a simple choice like choosing a shirt, though it's difficult to be convinced further without evidence to suggest any reason for belief or a change in attitude. If I were to try to convince someone like you that they should change their attitude to better approach their situation without coming off as preachy or relying on personal anecdotes of my own, I'd point out that you're clearly dissatisfied with the way things are going now, and if we look at it logically, that would mean that if nothing changes, things aren't going to get any better. Far from it, as I'd argue the world isn't getting any better each day, so if a sense of goodness isn't going to come externally, it's got to come from within. This is what an attitude change essentially entails. That being the case, it's a matter of analyzing what in particular is most dissatisfying you and how to best approach that. If you feel that people are the most negative factor in your life right now, then maybe try just for a week thinking of people differently, or approaching them differently. This isn't to say you should lie to yourself and suddenly pretend people are good--in fact, I'd say it might be better to give form to your criticisms in order to work around them. If you really want my advice, I'd say start making a list of everything you hate about people. I'm serious, I mean everything. If it takes a long time, then let it. Then, when you feel like stopping, read the list through once, then don't look at it ever again. The next day, start a list of things that potentially could make someone tolerable, writing one thing that second day. This isn't a list of what makes people good, because they're not good, but a list of what would have to be true of a person to say they aren't entirely a maggot. Here's the real challenge: whatever you write down, do everything you can to live it through to its fullest. The next day, write another thing down. Keep adding one item to the list each day, and if you're struggling to maintain a certain aspect of the list, you can skip a day of adding to work harder at becoming someone you would objectively view as not a maggot. In other words, I think if you want to have a better attitude, you have to become a better person, which I don't mean as an insult to you personally, just as a statement of fact regarding the situation. If you'd rather not take my advice, feel free to disregard it entirely, though by the sound of it you're looking to change in some such way or to have an attitude shift of some kind, and it won't suddenly happen overnight or at all without some effort of your own. >So even if I did have talent or genius or whatever name you want to give the multiplier, I'd be told I wasn't genius enough by people who'll eagerly praise anything else no matter how low quality as long as it's advertised to them in a shiny packaging. See, this ties into what I've said earlier about not valuing people who aren't valuable, and in this post about changing your attitude. People are scum and there's no getting around that, so why value what they say or think at all? Just forget them, and if you're going to do anything, do it for its own sake. Of course, you still have to keep a job at least to survive, but besides this requirement, you can basically do whatever you want within the confines of the law. Let me clarify, wasteful spending on luxuries and other useless crap isn't what I'm talking about; that's exactly what you shouldn't waste your time on. It's far better to fulfill yourself, which also ties into my advice regarding self-improvement (which, again, I mean as no insult, just that often people who are disappointed in themselves or the world direly need this attitude change more than anything else). >I'm appalled that considering how attention is now inherently valuable, like a pseudo-currency of human worth in this beggar economy, a professional victim and noise-maker is then worth infinitely more than someone who noiselessly contributes. The collective society of maggots values such people, but you don't have to. If they don't value you, why care what they think? They have no sense of what's valuable, anyway. Leave them to their own devices, and understand what it means to value something properly If I've said anything confusing or repetitive, I apologize. I sincerely hope that things can improve for you, as it sounds like the cruelty of the world has badly affected you.

>>31515 >Of course, you still have to keep a job at least to survive I'd rather kill myself than produce anything for this society.

>>31525 Even if you sit on welfare or turn criminal - your mere existence allows to justify taking more from the obedient as a service fee to take care of you. Unless you go recluse and separate fully from society you will be made useful.

>>31525 >I'd rather kill myself than produce anything for this society. Seconding what >>31527 said. Better to live somewhere far from conventional society, somewhere far enough where you can live self-sufficiently without being influenced or affected by the rest of the world in any significant way, than to kill yourself. And, if this is the sort of life you've managed already, then I'm glad you can live in this way you've chosen.

>>31531 Not possible without earning a lot of money. Buy cheap land? Need to spend a ton more to satisfy zoning laws sufficiently to live there legally. Hike into remote wilderness? That's federal land and you are squatting, satellites and drones will notice signs of your presence and rangers will be sent to evict you. There is no escape from society. You be productive in the way they want you to, or your existence is disallowed.

>>31531 >Better to live somewhere far from conventional society, somewhere far enough where you can live self-sufficiently I would have gone for it, but of course Lady Luck bestowed upon me a chronic disease that is deadly if left untreated. It's the perfect complement to my non-compliance and pride. Considering I'll never dedicate a single Newton of labor to the society that denied me my calling, I've resigned that I'll just have to die.

>>31000 >Things are never going to be the same socially People who say this seem to be unable to crack open a history book and look at any other pandemic outcome. Humanity will overcome like it always does. Like in every past pandemic, people will just get fed up with it and ignore it and assume the risk. That's the end result 100% of the time. People can't care about something this hard forever.

>>31541 There was no internet with the other pandemics

>>31317 If you really think that people truly can (or even should) wait that long, you're a crank. You dismiss it as "contrarian" because you don't understand people, not one single bit. This is a pitiful level of analysis. It is a failure on your part to believe people could hold out that long—not a failure on theirs for breaking down and being human. If the panic didn't get fanned and governments didn't domino into doing mass quarantines of the healthy, we would've treated it like any other pandemic. Such as the one in '68 where we had woodstock and stuff and nobody cared, nothing big really happened, most of the world didn't even notice it. That would have been the scenario. I swear to god, it's like you people can't find a historical record with both hands. This isn't the first time this has happened, you utter fuсking chumps!

>>31535 >You be productive in the way they want you to, or your existence is disallowed. Even in such a grim picture, there are degrees of independence. You can choose to spend your free time on activities that contribute nothing to our selfish society, all while working jobs that minimally provide for such a corrupt system. Basically, you get by on your own terms insofar as you're free to do so. In this manner, you're only as trapped as you believe you are. >>31538 I'm sorry to hear you've ended up in such a terrible situation. At the very least, you can take solace in making at least one decision for yourself, whether you'll live or die. It's not my place to tell you what's right, all I'll say is that you should really think the situation through the best you possibly can before you make a decision. And, if I can do so, I'd like to recommend you the works of Marcus Aurelius; as a classical stoic, he writes about the topic of suicide and how it should rightly be thought of. Would be worthwhile to pick up if this is really what you're getting at.

>>31548 > At the very least, you can take solace in making at least one decision for yourself, whether you'll live or die. >inb4 rona develops the side effect of bringing back the dead if they had low serotonin >fully sentient, maybe with a few extra points of IQ as well as full retention of after-death enlightenment >technically immune to the virus and not entitled to human rights because they're dead, the zombies are bought wholesale by Amazon to package soykaf in warehouses >as it turns out that you don't even need to eat brains, you are paid in monthly Amazon Prime Video subscriptions >As an Amazon employee, you are forced to use your 1 hour 6 minutes of spare time to watch all the classic remakes, now featuring queer zombies of color >FOREVER

>>31541 The black plague indirectly led to multiple peasant revolts.