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Does anyone here feel like they missed out on a lot by not geting to experience the 90s / early 00s? Life just seemed to be so much more interesting then. Internet becoming mainstream has sort of ruined everything fun. Nowadays trends come and go so quickly that you do not even realize that it has become a trend before it passes and everything feels superficial, like the deeper meaning behind everything has become irrelevant. I just feel like life in 1st world countries peaked around that time and it is now just getting exponentionally worse. No one is capable of taking a soykaf without the internet. I cannot be bothered to do anything seeing how I missed out on so much. I used to think that it is something I would grow out of but I have been feeling like this for around 6 years now and I doubt that one day I will just wake up and stop caring. Not sure if this is the right board to post this to so if it isn't then tell me and I will delete and repost.

>>30737 Everything in those times was the same as what we have today, only weaker and cuter. It was a cute flower on an invasive weed that destroys crops. A sane man would have destroyed it. We just looked at the flower and wanted more of them, and now we're screwed. All the good things have been replaced by the cute flowers that are actually poisonous. Believing that the 90s were better times rather than the infancy of the current dystopia is a delusion.

Of course you feel that way. If you weren't around to experience it, then your view of that time period is an idealized version viewed through the lens of other people's nostalgia. Trends always came and went quickly, and they never had any deeper meaning behind them (unless you're going to tell me there was some deep meaning to pet rocks). >I cannot be bothered to do anything seeing how I missed out on so much That's just causing you to miss out on even more. Enjoy things now so that you have something to be nostalgic about later in life. Trust me, if you continue just not doing anything, then in 15-20 years you're just going to end up feeling like you missed out on the 2020s as well.

I was around for the early 2000s. I don't know what the pre-9/11 internet was like, but 2002-~2005 was much better than now. There were no social media giants, just isolated forums and chatrooms that all had their own culture. It wasn't a utopia though, forum/chatroom attention whores were very much a thing, although the average contemporary social media narcissist is about as bad they were.

>>30741 Yeah I mean I realize that some of it is nostalgia right, but not that much you know. Like, nowadays if someone is like an emo or a satanist or a furry or smtn like that then it is just a fashion thing, but back then before the internet it actually meant something you know. Groups stuck together more and had like a message most people were attracted to. Also regarding the comic - yeah you get bored but then you try and appreciate soykaf. If you are clubbing and you get bored now you just pull out your phone, back then you had to try and enjoy it and who knows, maybe you would.

>>30743 People were saying that same sort of thing in the 90s: "if you're a hippie or a goth nowadays it's just fashion, it used to actually mean something." Also, I distinctly remember when emo was a big thing, and we always thought of it as a fashion trend. And what you're saying about phones people used to say about magazines and newspapers. Less has changed than you think.

>>30743 >Like, nowadays if someone is like an emo or a satanist or a furry or smtn like that then it is just a fashion thing, but back then before the internet it actually meant something you know. It was always a fashion thing, it just wasn't seized by capitalism as efficiently as today and when you do a thing for fashion when you're 15 it means a lot more than if you do it when you're 20 because young people are driven by irrational stuff, namely hormones. The key ingredient of nostalgia is that you were dumber back then.

>>30748 I don't get what the XKCD is trying to say, that it's a good thing because it's happening? Why doesn't he mention that these technologies are designed to be addictive? Yes we have been speeding up since the Industrial Revolution, all that I am reading in those quotes is that people perceived even back then humanity was picking up a pace we were not capable of, and things only got worse and worse. Also I don't understand the first list of quotes is trying to be cheeky by highlighting passages and using that horrible font to force you to skim. It was frustrating to read.

I lived through the end of it, and I have younger siblings so I know basically what youth culture is like now. The most profound difference between the two is that in the '00s subculture was more rigidly defined. The mainstream was still stuck in the '80s where popular soykaf was designed to hit the broadest demographic but necessarily couldnt appeal to everyone so you still had "alternative" subcultures. Now the main stream is either less prevalent or all-encompassing depending on how you look at it. Likewise individuals are becoming either a subculture of one or washed away by the monoculture depending on your perspective. This isn't universally true, subcultures do still exist, but this is the direction I see it heading. The key thing to understand is gen z's relationship with so-called "aesthetics". An aesthetic (noun) is basically a subculture except it's mutable (e.g. you don't "become a witch", you "have a witchy aesthetic" for a time) and generally with limited to no gatekeeping or traditional authority. Important to note that these arent just visual things, it does encompass a complete idealization of a lifestyle just like subcultures. The mainstream consists of people who at their core think and behave very similarly (that's the monoculture I mentioned) but distinguish themselves at an individual level by decorating themselves and their lifestyle with a pastiche of different aesthetics. I don't know if this is ultimately a good or a bad thing. On one hand it seems incredibly shallow, but on the other hand I like the flexibility of identity and ego that it offers and think it's a perfect adaptation to the internet age.

>>30761 Oh, one more important detail: "aesthetics" are things you apply to yourself unilaterally, subcultures generally require some kind of acceptance from the in-group. This is why the former is so easy to pick up and drop on a whim. It's very interesting.

>>30761 >but on the other hand I like the flexibility of identity and ego Dear god what a revolting statement, why do you need your identity to be "flexible"?

>>30764 Why not? My self perception isn't so sacred that I can't play around with it as my interests and priorities change. My ego should serve me, not the other way around.

>>30766 You don't need a "flexible" identity to experience what you just describes as a natural change in your personality, which happens over the years. What you are talking about is changing your identity depending on where your needs are at the moment. If your interests and priorities change because you deliberately decide so you don't have an identity to begin with.

>>30768 If they change depending on your needs that's as authentic as it gets, even if you say "oh it's about the meaning", you don't look meaning if you don't need it.

>>30770 >Oh I am among ___ now, I identify as a ___ too >Oh I am among ___ now, I identify as a ___ now >It will be easier to get what I want if I am ___ so I will pretend I am ___ very authentic

>>30768 >what you just describes as a natural change in your personality Yes, I think it is very natural. However many people get too caught up in their ideas about who they are which can restrict their growth. >What you are talking about is changing your identity depending on where your needs are at the moment Not particularly. Or, more like I don't recognize a distinction between those two things. Maybe it would help if I cleared up some language. I'm using ego and identity basically as synonyms for self-perception. The idea of "you" that the real you thinks about. Maybe you had something else in mind? I don't really see anything wrong with constantly and deliberately updating your self-perception to ensure that it is not getting in your way. >If your interests and priorities change because you deliberately decide so you don't have an identity to begin with. What does someone without an identity look like to you?>>30771 I'm not the person you're replying too, but you seem to be implying that the changes would be disingenuous. I'm not talking about faking anything, I'm talking about proper introspection and metacognition. You can change pretty much everything else in your brain, why should identity be off limits?

>>30775 >>30771 Reply got fuarrrked up in the last part.

One thing I miss about the Internet of that time (Web 1.0 and early Web 2.0, I guess) is that it was more lightweight. It didn't look that good, but the load times were quick, at least. It's funny that web design and development now consist of creating a surface-level, visual impression of things being slick and optimized, while it's often a horrendous mess under the hood.

A bit of nostalgia plays into it, though I wasn't around that early. People back then were still awful, but I guess nowadays you can project this attitude unto far more people. Like the internet was some separate community from reality and excessive browsing was the domain of pure geeks. >>30785 It's weird. I feel like speeds have gotten faster (the connections I used back then were complete ass) but, as you said, everything's gotten horribly bloated and filled with crap. Like rather than take advantage of our strong networks we're overworking them. It's supposed be for the sake of smartphones but honestly none of it makes mobile browsing better.

>>30785 Cause normal people want shinnies. Given the choice between a simplistic easy to read site and a flashy hard to read site the avg person will take the cool looking site. Bloat is also seen a getting more for their money. They don't appreciate that a 200kb site looking identical is harder than a 20mb site. Its kind of hilarious, you learn all about accessibility and other crap and then get to throw it out cause the customer likes a gradient background cause it looks cool, fuarrrk readability. Seen this soykaf with sites that target the elderly which would be the primary demographic to care about readability.

>>30751 The point of that comic strip was to highlight that people who complain about smartphones which always states that things used to be better in the past don't realise that has always been a form distraction that was crucified by the people and things weren't actually different as they like to believe. It's really not that hard to get it. It doesn't say they are good or bad or whatever. It all boils down to the use one person makes of it.

>>30859 >Seen this soykaf with sites that target the elderly which would be the primary demographic to care about readability. Ironically I've always felt lainchan itself to be a major violator of the readability rule. That top menu bar in a microscopic font is almost unusable, unless you're either on a VGA monitor or you set your browser to force larger fonts.

No OP. Im lucky enough to have been a teenager in the 90s playing in a band going to lots of gigs. Radiohead, Offspring, RATM etc The early 00s were awesome too dnb parties, college, travelling. Im sorry everything went to soykaf. I would hate to be your age now. This may just be a dark patch like the world wars were but not as bad. Just get out and try to see what you can of the world.

>>33194 I'm in my twilight years (30+) and I had to install NoSquint to browse this site.

>>33195 This is what is most important here. When I was a teenager and in my 20s we actually went outside and did stuff every day. Even when it was boring, at least we were bored together and got some fresh air and exercise. That is the main difference. Children are discouraged from playing outside now because parents are paranoid, so by the time they are in high school they are used to socializing on the internet and never even consider whether they are missing anything or not. My neighbour who is 16, really into music and really gifted at it too, I don't think has gone to a single concert or even a small all ages type show in her life. The latter of these is apparently harder to put off now because of insurance rules. > hurrr ur just old and has the nostalgias > ok gen-x'er amirite xD The general trend in society is towards safety and security over having fun or lived experiences. I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, this is happening.

>>33202 Peoples scales are based on experiences. Since last 2 gens had no wars they got soft. If you lived through a world war you wouldn't soykaf your pants as easily at minor stuff.

>>33195 >>33200 I hadn't noticed due to having one of those monitors, but now that you've mentioned it and I took a look at the CSS, it does set it to some obnoxiously small font for whatever reason.

>>33203 We have most certainly not had peace during the last few decades. I'm not sure what country you live in.

>>33206 They probably only count places being actively invaded or with active conscription. Which is rather different from their original statement.

>>33207 Although they unintentionally raise a point relevant to the discussion: youth cultures thrive when there is something like a draft to resist.

>>33206 Any western country really. You might take an army gig but most don't, your home country never got invaded and so the majority never participated in war. >>33208 got it right. And before someone says terrorism, that was something on tv not something that happened to you. More people experience car crashes than terror attacks. The majority didn't live it like they used to live a world war in the past. It's just something you watch on tv with no real immediate impact on your life. The only real effects you feel are in lawmaking and economic.

>>33208 What about widespread corruption and corporate monopoly? But I guess that's not cool to rebel against. >>33210 Would you really claim Russia is thriving?

>>30761 This is the best thing I've read today. The kids are going to be alright. >>33202 I see plenty of older kids out and at live shows. Get out of your bubble.

>>30737 Yeah, I get stuck in that line of thought sometimes, for various time periods. There are probably various factors involved when it comes to having a strong, almost painful sense of nostalgia, or simply not wanting to be here in the present. But I don't want to be bogged down trying to discern what the reasons are to feel this way. I appreciate why you'd want to whine about it, but alongside that something more productive would be trying to become the change you want to see. If you think modern culture is garbage, embody an alternative culture: ignore the trends, read a book, go outside, meet people, create something new. If you persist for a few years you may even have a community of people around whatever it is you're doing. If you dislike modern culture, your brain is giving you the motivation and inspiration to create a better alternative. I don't want to accuse you of anything because I don't know you: but as a general principle, you'll feel better off focusing on the things you like rather than those you dislike. >>30741 >That's just causing you to miss out on even more. Enjoy things now so that you have something to be nostalgic about later in life. Trust me, if you continue just not doing anything, then in 15-20 years you're just going to end up feeling like you missed out on the 2020s as well. Very much this.

>>33212 >widespread corruption and corporate monopoly What sort of resistance would you have in mind? There was the anti-globalization protests in the late 90s and early 00s, then Occupy after that. Both failed completely. >>33214 I assume laws are different where you live then because there is pretty much no such thing as a rock show for people below drinking age here. Don't tell me about a "bubble".

>>33190 >The point of that comic strip was to highlight that people who complain about smartphones which always states that things used to be better in the past don't realise that has always been a form distraction that was crucified by the people and things weren't actually different as they like to believe. Except they were? What leads you to the assumption that things weren't as different? Just because the issues have started a long time ago and people have been complaining about them for a long time it doesn't mean the situation has not slowly degraded. This is the same argument that people put up when they deny climate change (they've been complaining about climate change since forever and yet we're still here!) but when it comes to that, the same XKCD retard has made a comic where he clearly shows that the temperature has raised constantly since the industrial revolution.

The final step or reaction to the truth of Spirit by the simulation is not to ape Spirit as life, but rather, Spirit as totality, eternity. The simulation wears the ancien broach and coiffed smugness of Marie Antoinette only to let it rot and and made anew with each recreation straying further from what once was. The convincing act of life to death and death, life, is in all actuality the procession of Spirit as eternal. Yet with Capital the System runs into its own self-commodification and through such the gateway into fake heaven, Universality as abstraction and as such can reinvent itself perpetually making whatever Capital wants into eternal simulation. The spectators will watch the life and birth of institutions in radical succession and every moment will be taken as complete and sealed tight. Seals broken, furies released, pushed back into the underworld; underworld makes its way to the surface; pushed back and held in place all within twenty years. The spectator will watch a play that is neither a tragedy nor comedy but rather, a schizogenic necronomic ritual of self reinvention and revolution as ruse to the cycle of life. -soykafty excerpt from my book.

>>33226 I dunno how old are you but people used to read newspapers to ignore people, so yeah thing were the same. It's not now.

>>33248 >I dunno how old are you Probably 10 years older than you >but people used to read newspapers to ignore people Ah ok so those elderly people I personally knew who read their newspaper at home, or the people I know who discuss the sports news with other people sitting at their table, they were doing that somehow to "ignore" people. Man I imagine back in the early XX century you really needed to bury your face in a newspaper to avoid human interaction in the crowded tube during your commute to the office. I've just asked around, my grandfather read the news for "pleasure" and the general description of it is "it was like a morning ritual". There was no perception as far as the older members of my family report, of reading the news as something you'd do to "avoid" people.

>>30737 Save for a handful of big events and trends, this kind of idealization happens in every time period. Sure, I do miss the internet in 2005, but I also very vividly remember being there and hearing from older people about how much better things were before I was born. Similarly, lots of people being born right now will come to idealize today. OP, I'm guessing you're in your teens - my advice would be to keep it off your mind as much as possible, because once you hit adulthood you'll be the one idealizing the 10s to young people. All the general "this has always happened" stuff aside though, I agree with the general sentiment that the internet has gone downhill. However, I see a lot of people making that complaint are people like you who don't really remember it and idealize it. (which, again, is fine - I'm not trying to be rude) My only issue with that is that in that case, those complaints come from a context of being used to the "new web", and wanting the convenience of that alongside the benefits they see in the "old web". However, the thing driving the way the internet used to be is almost entirely the inconvenience, slowness, and significantly lower number of people on it. When you had to know what you're doing in order to get your thoughts out there, there was a barrier of entry for people who were too lazy to learn and just wanted a quick and easy outlet. Those people have that now with things like Twitter. I think the best way to try to go back to those times would be to eliminate mobile devices and reduce speeds drastically. Of course, for anyone immersed in the current technological landscape, this ranges from unappealing to outright unbearable. The solution I've come to is just keeping a distance from everything I dislike. I hate how social media has lasso'd everything into a handful of sites (aforementioned convenience etc.) but at least it makes it easy to avoid. I try to keep up to date with new projects that sound appealing, like communications services with a focus on privacy, which I talked my friends into keeping in touch with me on, and they in turn start using to keep in touch among themselves. Make a change in your peer group, if you have one! Guessing by your (guessed) age, I imagine you and/or your friends use Discord - get them off that, try something like Matrix or XMPP! A huge chunk of people will always be attracted to monolithic international trends. If you don't fall into that category, you aren't losing out by isolating yourself from them.

The 90s was a relatively good decade in a number of ways, but the 60s was far better. I remember both of them. The 60s were a little Golden Age of modern history, right before the decline began. The 90s were a short reprieve from the decline. ~ very old person

>>33304 > this kind of idealization happens in every time period That doesn't mean it's wrong.

I wished I lived back in the period around 1939, things were simpler, there was no iPhone and there were no normal people on the internet, like, at all. Certainly not facebook or instagram. There were people roaming the country living the romantic and free life of the hobo.

>>33341 I didn't say it was. In fact, if you read the rest of the post, you would have seen not only my complaints about the present, but also my propositions for mitigating them.

>>33340 This depends very much on one's personal background. For white-collar office workers and service industries that served that demographic, the 1990s were very good indeed - particularly in telecom sectors. For factory workers and the local businesses that depended on a strong local blue-collar base, the 1990s were a complete disaster as globalization kicked the overseas-manufacturing-outsourcing trend into overdrive.

>>33340 >very old person H-how much old are we talking about?

>>33352 I remember Eisenhower. He was the last sane Republican president, and a good one. I remember the Kennedy assassination, which was a horror beyond belief. I remember the Beatles. They sucked until Rubber Soul came out, but after that they were pure magic. I remember the moon landing. I remember the fall of the Berlin Wall, and of the USSR. Anyway, enough blogging.

Op here, really did not think this thread still would be alive. >>33340 I am not sure I agree, I do idealize the mid 90s to mid 00s because it still had that go outside and do stuff with friends vibes but also wasn't plagued by internet and technology everywhere. I mean sure, people had internet and phones an computers, but they were more sparse and people used them a lot less. I wouldn't wanna live in the 60s because it felt a little *too* wild and untamed, if you feel me. >>33304 It is not just that the internet has gone downhill, it's that since internet is so readily available, for the first time in human history being entertained is not something you have to achieve - it is the default mode. The millisecond that someone gets bored, no matter what they are doing, they will turn their phones on and entertain themselves. So anything that isn't pandering to adhd kids will lose traction since people are no longer forced to sit through some boredom for entertainment. Hell, I remember going to the cinema for some trash comic book movie and half of my friends where on their phones for half of the movie. >>33220 Idk, I have no idea how I would even meet people like me who would wanna almost swear off the internet, I do not even know anyone irl who sympathizes with the belief. I live in a country where few people speak english, so using more "underground" sites like these to meet such people is out of the question too. >>33202 I guess you have a point but it is not what I meant, anyone over 16 can go outside for basically go outside for as long as they want, but the only time someone does it if they wanna get trashed at a bar, which is not smtn im interested in.

>>33359 i remember hitler. those were the days.

>>33404 >anyone over 16 can go outside for basically go outside for as long as they want, But they don't. The other kids are all indoors anyway, they're afraid they'd miss five minutes of their Discord chat.

>>33406 I think you have your time-frames a little mixed up. Everything I mentioned was after Hitler's defeat, which was yet another great thing about the era. It was the Roosevelt legacy era, not the Hitler legacy era, and that's mainly why it was a "little golden age". You failed history, then? :3

>>33431 I think they're senile.

>>33202 >Children are discouraged from playing outside now because parents are paranoid This is a real problem and i blame mid-2000's "pedo scare" media for that. But then again, kids back in the 70's or 80's probably would have killed for the chance to talk to people from other parts of the world, read manuals on how to program or how to draw better, and access porn and other adult things they weren't supposed to. I'm also not saying that these things are better than going outside with friends, but in a way, unsupervised internet access was pretty much the last shred of freedom the kids have nowadays

>>33834 >in a way, unsupervised internet access was pretty much the last shred of freedom the kids have nowadays And even that people are trying to take away from them. >>33304 >I imagine you and/or your friends use Discord - get them off that, try something like Matrix or XMPP! Is anyone besides FOSS programmers and hardcore privacy obsessed people using these programs? XMPP looks interesting and reminds me a bit of old IM programs like AIM, but much like IRC after the popularity rise of Discord, it seems that the only people using these now are the aforementioned programmers. I didn't use IRC a lot back in the day but all of the channels about soykaf i was interested in moved and have some autist mod redirecting everyone to the discord instead.

>>33834 Not to mention the handheld idiot boxes with mobile internet, even the ones that can barely walk, im look at you chinks. And it shows, just how low this soykaf has dragged people down already.

>>33834 Honestly? The real problem in my neighbourhood is cars. I live on the same street I grew up on. The population of the neighbourhood is not any bigger but the city around it is and there is four times the traffic now. The culture of driving has deteriorated as well. I wouldn't let kids ride their bikes unsupervised or do any of the stuff we did either, not until they were older. No one who actually has kids around here does anyway.

Im born 96 and might have only felt the aftershock of the 90s world as ive grown up witnessing phones growing up in technological finesse with me while my circle wasnt so rich to posess the latest gadgets and my country slothful in picking up new trends. But holy hell dont be such a glittering sparklebitchboy as to believe there were no wild oppurturnities in your own youth be it gone or just blossoming right now. 19 year olds who are cool go to illegal garden raves rn because of the pandemic laws making hidden fun hot again, they make cringy rap videos in backalleys go study bullshit semesters so they can hang out with arthoes and organise bizarre online spaces leading to meetups of likeminded ones of the weirdest kind. Every generation that is young seeks spaces to conquer and breaks off exclusive spaces with their own feel from wider society. It might be harder today, you might have wasted your youth or you are a total shutin rn and have it harder to make use of it. Yes the world may have been more positive back then as the economy still saw relentless growth and worldpeace seemed a possibility but you might as well mourn to have passed on being a part of 50s japanese society were the Bōsōzoku ruled the streets in their masculine prime, you missed living among 1960s american hippies when the picketfence culture of america was still a WASP cathedral that provoked wildest dissent, you never saw 70s yuppie or punks when they didnt gave fuarrrks about politics as today and you also werent young in the weirdass 80s playing dnd and getting soykafsmashed on festivals with a young iron maiden band. If you arent 25 already go and search the wild spaces of your generation.

>>34213 >bemerkenswert einseitiges interesse an disco >impressive singleminded interest in disco lold hard, sometimes having learned german is worth it

>>33404 Hey OP. Just wanted to say that I feel you. I'm not going to say "you have to be the change!!!1!". Not that there's something wrong with that, but I understand that sometimes you just need to pour out your feelings even though you know what to do. Contrary to what has been said, I believe things were much better back then. And it makes sense: right now we are clearly not OK socially/culturally, because technology has made it so easy to be misinformed, to validate ignorant people by grouping them thanks to smart algorithms, to make industries profit out of addiction in a mass scale level thanks to data mining. Back then, everything was new and different, and I think it fed our sense of wonder so much that now that everything is so flavorless, we are craving for that same wonder really hard. Not only that, but I also have never felt the same sense of being a part of a community as I did back there... and I think modern technology has killed that too. I feel everyone is being cookie-cut in some way by the algorithms. It doesn't motivate me to socialize when I know most people are just... consumers? Idk, that's might just be me.

>>34239 Also, what's soykaf? I'm not familiar with this board's lingo

>>34240 If you like to swear, you'll figure out the w0rd f1lt3rs soon enough.

>>34213 >19 year olds who are cool go to illegal garden raves rn because of the pandemic laws making hidden fun hot again Are they anti-vaxxers too or are these just college kids who miss getting laid? I'm not sure this is what OP had in mind either way.

>>34255 Nobody got the endurance to give a soykaf for a full year about media panic. Furthermore the risk is low for age 16-25 so who cares? It wont happen to you. Yolo & fuarrrk bitches, bunkerstyle is for s0ybois. Besides i know a lot old fuarrrks didnt give a soykaf either so young arent alone. Threw their parties for their birthdays inviting fellow pensioners which is even worse than a meeting of young people.