ITS HERE!!!!

THE VACCINE IS HERE Russia is the first country in the world to develop and approve a vaccine. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53735718 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/world/europe/russia-coronavirus-vaccine.html https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/russia-registers-virus-vaccine-putins-daughter-72300985 What do you guys think? is it safe? are you gonna take it? is it a political move or not? personally I feel like this is what people have been waiting months for so maybe people can stop complaining now.

>>30562 Do I also get a free blow to the head with a blunt intrsument with it, or do I have to purchase that separately? If it's not a bundle deal, I'll really have to think about it.

>>30562 how do they know the long term effects of the vaccination? not trying to deny the legitimacy of the testing trials, but I suspect most people will have this same question. i'm sure they've investigated it but how do they know

The vaccine is not ready, they announced it while trials are still ongoing just to get headlines.

>>30565 Putin said his own daughter took the vaccine so it must be safe (I think)

>>30567 lol

>>30567 >Putin said his own daughter took the vaccine so it must be safe (I think) Politicians say what people want to hear. I believe the vaccine is ready though, Russians have good hackers and probably stole data from other companies and research teams which gave them advantage over them. 8 months is also a sane time for a vaccine to be developed and tested, considering extra funding from the government. It is also a good opportunity to suck money from smaller countries.

Reminder this has nothing to do with conventional vaccines and theres no research on rna vaccines which need to inject their payload into cells to make it work. Theres not even consensus how long such a vaccination could last. Some virologists said it could possible only last a few months of effective immunization.

>>30570 Whoa, are you question the use of electroporation to insert genetic material into people which will theoretically render them permanently vaccinated?!>!> WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? You have a problem. You ar ementlaly ill. I bet you're one of those mask DENIERS. DENIER. DENIER. DENIER. SHUN THE BLASPHEMER.

>>30562 Just for extra meltdown, I hope it works and Russia releases the patent to the commons like with their ebola treatment. What a glorious mess that would be. Trillions for nothing. What a shame.

>>30570 >Reminder this has nothing to do with conventional vaccines and theres no research on rna vaccines I'm clearly out of the loop here. Could you explain a bit or link me something to read?

>>30562 >trusting Putin

>>30573 Its as simple as the first sentence. rna vaccination operates like a trojan horse that pushes its payload into the cell. Reason is they use modified mRNA, this needs to go into the cell to reach the ribosomes which translate and produce viral hull proteins for example which then go back into the blood stream and then get handled by your immune system. They are essentially outsourcing a step in the vaccine production to your body as conventional vaccine production will produce the parts itself and merely inject those into the blood stream to let your immune system learn them. The whole trojan horse part is the section that has no literature on it. Now as for why? Its much cheaper in production. Potential of very high profits made it very desirable but lack of safety held it back against attempts to pass one for over a decade. What changed now is "we need it, lower regulations".

>>30572 >I hope it works and Russia releases the patent to the commons like with their ebola treatment. >What a glorious mess that would be. Trillions for nothing. Haha, that would be funny. Just imagine the faces of the investors.

Sounds kinda fishy one day after belarus burns. I wonder how other nations and the world health organization will react. Since its 2020 nothing other than a soykafstorm is to be expected. It wouldnt suprise me if this escalates to some kind of war or some other soykaf. This stuff sounds dangerous as fuarrrk, i think its gonna backfire real bad and i wouldnt let any of those pharma sickos inject me if anything even at gunpoint.

>>30579 You don't trust narcissists and psychopaths to put whatever they feel like in your blood stream? What's wrong with you bro, lmao. They already had their way with you in childhood anyway, not like any of this stuff is anything new. Why not just submit, kiddo.

>neurosuggesting putin wont give the world a modified "vaccine" with a dark secret that cures COVID and something sneaky >>30565 Nyet comrad, bleach/vodka injection vaccine is fine

>>30576 So basically russia cutting corners to be first again, just like space exploration?

Interested to hear from the Russian lainons about this since I know there are several.

>>30562 https://mobile.twitter.com/FrankfurtZack/status/1292556289747251200 There is no need for any vaccine. Covid is entirely overblown. Every nation could have totally ignored it. We would have always had an initial spike no matter what we did, maybe twice as bad as seasonal flu—just because there were no wild antibodies yet. That can never happen again, it's permanently over. Covid is never going to be a significant threat to anyone. Much of the excess deaths are caused by the lockdowns themselves, and this data is slowly starting to come out... such as in the UK where they found lockdown has caused two deaths for every three covid deaths. It's the most insane possible reaction. https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov-China/documentos/ITCoronavirus.pdf Page 18. Latest fatality rate data puts it at 0.002% for people under 50. Since the pass of the first spike, it has become far far less dangerous than seasonal flu. And before anyone brings up the fake-ass long term effects, the "massive organ damage"—that has been presented extremely deceptively. That isn't new. Any old viral infection has a small chance of doing all the same things, and in fact if you look at rates (which are never presented in sensationalist media terrorism) then you'd know the flu causes all of those more often than covid as well. It is truly harmless now that there is some measure of wild antibodies. We've been fuсked. We flinched. We should have never taken any of this soykaf seriously. But we have all shown our ass and demonstrated we are willing to give away ALL OUR RIGHTS if some random, unelected, unvetted "expert" that nobody had ever heard of before this year shows up on CNN and tells us we're all gonna die. I don't know about you, but I don't remember voting for any of this bullshit. The epidemiologists and their terrible closed-source models have been wrong about literally every single thing they have said. Why do people still trust them?

Everybody has a vaccine, there were news reports about testing in monkeys and whatnot just a few weeks after this started and it's looking likely those vaccines will be successful. This is apparently not a difficult virus to make vaccines for. Problem is, in non-soykafhole countries you have to actually test your medicines even if they look promising. Obviously if you don't care about a few million peasant lives you can roll the dice and "approve" your vaccine much quicker.

>>30602 >Much of the excess deaths are caused by the lockdowns themselves Can you elaborate on that? I genuinely don't see how that follows.

>>30602 >But we have all shown our ass and demonstrated we are willing to give away ALL OUR RIGHTS if some random, unelected, unvetted "expert" that nobody had ever heard of before this year shows up on CNN and tells us we're all gonna die. by "some rando" do you mean every single virologist and public health official? Except I guess the extreme minority who are of course right because of reasons? >The epidemiologists and their terrible closed-source models have been wrong about literally every single thing they have said. Why do people still trust them? you can read about epidemiological models here http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=virology&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def the most commonly used one is a basic nonlinear ODE and it's public domain. Almost all models in use are modifications of that one with different assumptions. it is in the government's interest to make numbers look good. Remember that. Anyway: considering how half-assed the clinical trials in the US have been, I probably won't get the vaccine for at least a month or two after it comes out.

>>30602 >demonstrated we are willing to give away ALL OUR RIGHTS Which rights in particular are you concerned about? Ah yes, the 32nd amendment "We the people shall not be forced to wear a face diaper while shopping for dog biscuits and Bud Light at Wally World"

>>30604 Seems easy enough to imagine. There's gotta be an influx of people who /suicide after getting financially destroyed by lockdown. Much more wont straight ragequit but the repercussions of a destroyed future will last through their life. Outside of that lack of fresh air & exercise weakens the immune system as does lack of contact with diseases to fight from interacting with other people. Perfect isolation from pathogens is how you get auto-immune problems and allergies. Once the system has no real target he targets the next best thing. Im really curious how long this lockdown will last and if we see massive jumps in issues after its lowered that will again be used to prolong it.

>>30602 It's not over, but I agree it looks overblown. There would be little to no damage if it wasn't up to hysteria. The incompetence authorities displayed looks more like malicious intentions. >>30620 And you will ignore the coronavirus surveillance, lockdowns, local business paralyzed and people fired. Then we will have mandatory vaccinations against a threat that is not even a threat on that part of continent where eating bats is not normal, and we pay for the incompetence of talking heads with our money and sometimes even with our lives. Because surely it all boils down to not wearing "some freaking clothes". I really like how some people have indoctrinated that mindset that it's ALWAYS you and your surroundings to blame, but never actual people in power. Even now, mentioning the actual people to blame, the conversation shifts to your local neighbors not wearing a mask while shopping. Amazing.

>>30622 Not to mention the billions the pharma corps made with those masks and the damage they do to the environment. If you ever found a discarded mask(i can find these even in remote places around my quiet town), when you torch it you see how much chemical soykaf there is in them. With millions or even billions of masks going around with plastic in them and people throwing them on the ground i wonder what the ecological consequences will be. Hardly anyone ever tries to see at the true cause of all this, industrialization and overpopulation. People are scared of some virus, but why do they keep living squeezed toghether in cities with unhealthy food and even barely breathable air, what other than a health crisis can you expect when you live like this. Seems to me most people just wear the masks to keep going back to things the way they were and forget all about this. The idea that fundamental change in the way we live doesnt remotely enter their minds. If anything this pandemic just shows how hopeless western society is, aside from the terrible government and media response, the inflexibility and unwillingness of the average people to admit that this is not the work of some disease but fundamental flaws in the system is more than disturbing and disease and famine are the result of this way to run society.

>>30622 >coronavirus surveillance Looks a lot like the normal surveillance, which is a problem but not new >lockdowns Maybe it's different where you are, but around here nobody took that soykaf seriously >local business paralyzed and people fired Yeah it is like kicking dead whales down the beach but who was going to the bars mid pandemic anyway? >mandatory vaccinations wild speculation >>30624 >the damage they do to the environment A drop in the bucket compared to all the pop bottles and soykaf we dump in the ocean every day. >when you torch it you see how much chemical soykaf there is in them Everything is chemicals. Why are you burning plastic ya dingus? >The idea that fundamental change in the way we live doesnt remotely enter their minds. Because there won't be fundamental change. Those in a position to will take the opportunity to stuff their pockets like they always do and once the virus dies down the economic cycle will start again. >this pandemic just shows how hopeless western society is Do you prefer the way eastern society handled it, by grinding the populace under the boot of the state to quash dissent? Oh, I'm sure you would be a prestigious party member and definitely not in the reeducation camps/organ farms if we had that system here.

>>30626 >I'm going to deny everything without addressing the initial argument of taking away people's rights ok

>>30602 >There is no need for any vaccine. >maybe twice as bad as seasonal flu Yet there's a vaccine for flu and you're missing the fact flu alone is normal, but flu and covid together is not and can be problematic. What's so bad about having protection? People with immunity deficiency and old people don't want to die. Also please stay on topic, covid generally and its implications are not discussed in this thread, but a vaccine for it.

>>30637 >Yet there's a vaccine for flu Which doesn't work. Stop saging by the way, it's obnoxious.

>>30637 FLU AND COVID TOGETHER!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WE ARE ALL fuarrrkING DOOMED THERE ARE BODIES PILING UP IN THE..... nursing homes where sick patients were sent

>injecting proprietary chemical compounds into your body

>>30641 >injecting proprietary chemical compounds into your body Entire medicine looks like this, you can't just produce everything yourself. Let's hope governments and public health agencies check them well enough. Cyberpunk is real.

>>30641 Worse than that, it's like injecting a proprietary gentoo into your body. They can emerge anything they want.

>>30642 Time to chew on some GNU/Herbs and drink some BSD/Bone broth.

>>30652 people like you are the reason I still lurk here

>>30638 What are you talking about? The flu is the classification, not the actual virus itself. It works the same way as cancer. Brain cancer is only similar to lung cancer by merit of being a cancer. The flu shots are variable. Basically, some supposed authorities on the flu try to figure out what 3 - 4 types of the flu we are going to have the next year, then thats the 3 - 4 vaccines that go out into the flu shot. This is elementary stuff, friend. You should know this, especially when you are so clearly against it. I'm not even a biologist, virlogist, or anything like that. I'm just a mathematician/cryptologist. I can understand having a healthy distrust, but you need to look for truth in an honest way - Not to support what you think the world is like.

>>30656 Yes, that's what they do. No, it doesn't work by any metric.

>>30621 Fair enough. Can we safely assume that the number of people that died from the side effects of the lock down is greater than the number of people who would have died from COVID-19? Is there some data that might support the claim?

>>30602 This site already derezzed me once for calling someone a glitterboy and going on with my day, so I'll give a reason: I think you're absolutely wrong and reaching for straws in order to justify the way you think because you can't be bothered to look at the points the literal rest of the world are making. I've had 3 friends who are younger than 30 almost die because of COVID and the consequences of getting infected. Actually people like you are the reason why this whole lockdown thing has lasted so long.

>>30658 A simple take on the data is "it doesnt matter". If you look at dead rates there is no movement in either direction. If you however want to measure the damage it becomes entirely subjective and extremely hard because you would have to project the losses the population made which arent even fully visible yet and you would have to make a subjective choice on how much you value a screwed up life for a kid vs one 60year old guy less dying. Its practically impossible which makes the choice of "we did something" easy since "you didnt do anything so things are bad" are easier to convince people off than "you did something against it and the secondary effects made it worse longterm"

>>30660 I'll be honest, I'm not entirely convinced. I think the point could be made that the US and countries with similar responses to the pandemic took the worst possible action, that is, they half-assed the lockdown. An effective containment strategy could have shortened the lockdown time thus minimizing economic loss, prevented the saturation health care organizations and saved lives by preventing infection. It is tragic that people in these countries are being put in desperate situations.

>>30662 The response was simply too slow. They started 2-3 months after it was already announced by the who. I got myself out of stocks early January because i got the news of what was going on. How the fuarrrk did countries need 3 months longer than some random retard on the net? If they had acted early they wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the same amount of cases.

>>30659 1) Is there 5G in your area and how heavily do your friends use wireless devices 2) Do your friends regularly get flu shots 3) Do your friends have any chronic conditions 4) Describe the diet and lifestyle of your friends, do their communities have any overt chemical etc stressors present. 5) Where is your general location 6) Describe their presentation of covid, given that the false positive rate is very high. As in, fruit and goat blood tests positive, people are called about positive results when they were never tested, tests sent in unused come back positive. And so forth.

>>30666 1) and 2) have no effect at all in regard to increasing the risk of somebody getting infected (except for maybe 2 decreasing the risk), but regardless, as I said here >>30662 an effective lock down strategy could have prevented the majority of the infections and by extension deaths regardless of the vulnerabilities of the people. 0.002% in populations of billions is still millions of people. Those people have a right to life as much as anyone else, I believe. A more pragmatic argument I suppose (in case you don't believe as I do in my previous point) is that losing those people negatively effects the economy as well.

>>30670 1) Is there 5G in your area and how heavily do your friends use wireless devices 2) Do your friends regularly get flu shots 3) Do your friends have any chronic conditions 4) Describe the diet and lifestyle of your friends, do their communities have any overt chemical etc stressors present. 5) Where is your general location 6) Describe their presentation of covid, given that the false positive rate is very high. As in, fruit and goat blood tests positive, people are called about positive results when they were never tested, tests sent in unused come back positive. And so forth. As far as the rest of it, this is just a cvontinuation of the older generation's narcissistic behavior. Their demographic is the greatest affected, though the stats are garbage anyway, and thus they can stay home on their own. Has nothing to do with anyone else.

I guess a lot of people don't understand that if you don't know anything, it is best to play it safe. That has been the case for most of this viral outbreak. The damage of lockdown is done, it cannot be reversed, and lockdown is largely over (and would not be effective if it was re-instituted). I still think it was the right thing to do, because I think it's best to be cautious. The virus unfortunately got politicized and that is the crux of all issues about it. Just wear a god damn mask in public places and don't pack yourself into a room full of strangers(not that that was ever appealing to me) and everything is fine. >>30638 according to the CDC, most flu vaccines these days are between 30 and 50% effective. That is enough to put a massive dent in the danger posed by flu virii. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/2019-2020.html this is also in the case where they just *guess* which particular strain of influenzavirus(which evolves faster than coronavirus) will be most common in the following year. I don't think it's known yet if SARS-nCov-2 has evolved enough yet that a vaccine for one strain would be ineffective against others. If not, then there will need to be different vaccines for different areas. In any case they will know what they are actually vaccinating against, unlike the case for influenzavirus. >>30662 >>30665 absolutely the case. If governments reacted to this when they should have it would have been a small blip on the radar like SARS-nCov-1 was. Remember how everyone was downplaying it back in January before case numbers blew up in China and then Italy? Hold your governments responsible, but don't do it by being a retard. >>30671 What were their star signs? Do they sleep on the north or south side of their buildings? How much money do they make?

>>30674 1) Is there 5G in your area and how heavily do your friends use wireless devices 2) Do your friends regularly get flu shots 3) Do your friends have any chronic conditions 4) Describe the diet and lifestyle of your friends, do their communities have any overt chemical etc stressors present. 5) Where is your general location 6) Describe their presentation of covid, given that the false positive rate is very high. As in, fruit and goat blood tests positive, people are called about positive results when they were never tested, tests sent in unused come back positive. And so forth.

>>30675 stop copy/pasting dipshit, we read it the first time.

>>30676 Yes, and you've neglected to respond to it.

>>30677 >>30670 did and frankly I consider your spam to be best made fun of rather than responded to.

>>30678 If no response is given I can only assume at best his testimony is questionable, in practice his testimony is useless, and at worst he's spinning a tale of falsehoods which have no basis in reality.

>>30602 It's hard to "overblow" a pandemic though. What if the virus ended up being deadlier than it is and noone did anything about it.

>>30702 What if it didn't and you ended up destroying your economy, further eliminating small businesses, destroyed your food supply and consolidated its ownership even further while ramping up reliance on imports, providing a pretext to bring in biometrics and a cashless society, hyperinflation..... ...

>>30702 Yes it was rational in the begnning to react strongly just in case. But not anymore

>>30702 And what if it suddenly disappears November 4th?

>>30763 It won't. If it did though, all the retards will suddenly go silent. Then they'll just start up again defending power structure propaganda the next time around.

Can someone explain why cases in France and intaly were not caused by same virus that caused infection in China? Is this pure semantics or I misunderstood something?

>>30705 hindsight is 20/20. It was sensible to stop the world while there was so little information. If it was as deadly as originally thought, it would certainly be worth a depression to stop it.

>>30604 https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/covid-19-devastates-already-fragile-health-systems-over-6000-additional-children https://www.un.org/press/en/2020/sc14164.doc.htm https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1320230/coronavirus-shock-lockdown-death-toll-lockdown-restrictions-coronavirus-study https://fee.org/articles/a-years-worth-of-suicide-attempts-in-four-weeks-the-unintended-consequences-of-covid-19-lockdowns/ https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-cdc-quarter-young-adults-considered-suicide People who don't consider these tradeoffs are hypocrites and cannot claim the high ground. Lockdown is not about saving lives. It is about saving certain kinds of lives at the expense of about 10-100x more of other kinds of lives. This is shaping up to be a global holodomor event. People who are so gung-ho about staying home and flattening the curve are too rich and sheltered and abstracted away from death and suffering to be making these decisions. Economies are the greatest slaughterers of human beings in all of history. The lockdown blowback will absolutely 100% kill more than covid. It will kill far, far, FAR more than the holocaust. The starvation from famines due to the interruption of agricultural migrant worker movements alone will kill 10-100 times more than covid. And that will be a recurring cost each year, because it takes years or even decades to repair food shortages. Who do you think is going to collect the seed for the next harvest? Nobody, that's fuarrrking who. My family comes from a long line of subsistence farmers in Arkansas. Did anyone think about asking a farmer about this? The opinions of epidemiologists and doctors are not all that matters. Believe it or not, there are concerns other than covid in the world and they actually do still affect us greatly. There's been about nine pandemic events as bad or worse than covid in the past century. This is absolutely not the greatest risk we face right now. The response and public policy are. You people haven't bothered to even try to conceive the horrors involved in a great depression. My grandparents always told me stories of the one in the 20th century. Mass starvation. Crime so brutal that there is absolutely no modern analog for it. Selling of one's own children into prostitution to keep them fed. It is hell. You people are about to finally learn, since you were too pampered to think about it when you showed knee-jerk mass support for lockdowns. For that you people can't be forgiven. The data is shaking out. People are going to notice this. They are going to fuarrrking get you all. People will be held accountable eventually. The data is in from Sweden. Herd immunity is clearly kicking in, despite the incredibly inaccurate predictions from epidemiologists yet again. Deaths have dropped to barely a trickle. The full viral infection season was worse than the usual flu season, but it was about the same as the flu season of 2000 for instance. It was not of any great concern to begin with. This is unforgivable. Of course people who are responsible for this atrocity will be scrambling to excuse, cover up, deny, and avoid accountability for their actions. You really think they wouldn't? Were you born yesterday? The data clearly shows that covid is being exaggerated, not undersold. Luckily a couple countries refused this nonsense and we can use them as control cases. That explains the massive hostility to those countries in the international corporate media. Duh doy.

>>30781 Bullѕһіt. Neil Ferguson has been a laughingstock for decades for making faulty, terrible epidemiological models that overestimated the results of harmless outbreaks by several orders of magnitude. This was already known. Panic made people adopt these strategies, not the best data we had at the time. This is not a case of hindsight. Look at his work with foot and mouth disease, mad cow disease, and even other coronaviruses. He's been discredited and forced to resign now for hypocritically flaunting his own quarantine restrictions, but he should have been expelled years ago for being a terrible scientist. The field needs a full overhaul. None of their predictions are accurate enough to be used for state policy. Not even close. And even the worst case scenario with covid would not have been worth a global great depression. You are hopelessly ignorant about how extremely dangerous depressions are. Global ones can easily kill hundreds of millions in a year. And they can last decades. Obviously the death rate isn't identical each year and tapers off as the world enters recovery, but it will kill multiple orders of magnitude more than even the worst-case predictions for covid. So our predictions were predictably several zeroes off, and the consequences will be several zeroes more severe. This was a debacle of historical magnitude. History will judge us. Lockdown will likely be one of the greatest killers of the century. Covid probably won't even register in the top twenty. Nobody cared because nobody consulted any other discipline beyond medical science and epidemiology, and those people rightfully said their scope didn't include economic projections and sociological studies for all-cause deaths. Because they figured the politicians would get proper experts for that as well. Guess what? They didn't. Because they're craven careerists, and massive panic and global emergencies are extremely profitable to them 100% of the time. If we believed science, we would realize that there is more to it than one single discipline.

>>30642 Lol if you actually understood the message of virtually all cyberpunk works, you'd understand that's a very good reason not to trust it until it's been very exhaustively vetted, which Gilead et. al. will not allow before pushing it on the world population. You missed the point entirely you dolt

>>30786 do you seriously believe an unmitigated global pandemic would not cause a deep depression? You don't think supply chains wouldn't be interrupted or completely fall apart if millions of people called in sick for months in a row? You think there wouldn't be panic and a general falling-apart of society? These are all very very real possibilities. At the time, they were just as possible as the current reality. Sweden is still undergoing a bad depression because it turns out, even when your healthcare system is good and you have a reasonably intelligent populace, which most of the world does not have, viral outbreaks are bad news. Use your brain. You call me ignorant. I'm well fuarrrking aware of how bad this depression is. I'm also aware of the fact that it could have been avoided, not just by reacting with a shorter, earlier, stricter lockdown, but also by having governments and a healthcare system that weren't buffoonishly incompetent and corrupt. Blaming epidemiologists for the gross incompetence of others is a very nasty thing to do. Want to know why public health officials and doctors and epidemiologists exaggerated the danger so much? Because they were blaring the warning siren for *months* and nobody reacted at all. If governments and people had done something when the outbreak started getting out of hand in January we would not be having this conversation right now, we'd be talking about some other smoothbrained election-year nonsense. People in neoliberal soykafholes simply will not get off their asses unless the world is literally going to end. Then the virus itself got turned into a political "issue" (read: distraction) and the whole thing became the kind of retarded swillfest that every political "issue" is.

>>30790 OH and let's not forget that economists have been predicting a depression like this for decades, in fact many of them think the 2008 recession never really ended. The economy is so weak that a few months of people buying less causes catastrophe. It was extremely unstable and now we pay the price, not the people who made it this way. So hold them accountable and stop focusing on the straw that broke the camel's back.

>>30791 You are being intellectually and morally bankrupt if you're going to seriously pretend that shutting down the entire world for a six months to more than a year like this has no effect; that it was just going to happen anyway. Yes, we had immense economic problems before and were always headed for a collapse. But the extent of economic damage has incredible significance. Clearly not all recessions and depressions are equivalent, regardless of degree. This is such a bullshit argument. The people responsible for existing and imminent economic damage before this should be held accountable. But the people who did unprecedented damage now and basically plunged us into a truly historical event also should be held accountable, not scapegoated by this kind of staggeringly lazy thinking. Plus, many of them are the same parties. Big international conglomerates and shady political regimes intertwined with sophisticated financial mechanisms. Look up the countries that refused the lockdown strategy and the fact that the IMF immediately threatened them with weird, quasi-government sanctions and offered to bribe them with aid if they conformed.

>>30791 And it's not "a few months of people buying less." That's laughably understated, to the point where I have to wonder if you're really that ignorant or actually acting in bad faith. We have a true unemployment rate that's probably higher than 35% at this point (never trust the official stat for that by the way, it's been an infamous subject of political manipulation for decades). And small businesses are collapsing at a rate that is unique in all of recorded history. They're all being consolidated and rolled up into the usual enormous global corporations, such as Amazon absorbing damn near all of people's essential buying. They were always devourers of small businesses, but this has accelerated it to an incredible degree and I think it's only appropriate to take that seriously instead of just shrugging it away like you do.

>>30702 Read a history book. We've had several modern pandemics far more dangerous than this one, and none of these tactics were taken. The world was utterly fine; people hardly remembered them ten years later. The sleight of hand this kind of argument uses is the assumption that these pandemic strategies are routine and standard. They are not. At all. What we are seeing is a vast and unprecedented global experiment in disease management. None of this is proven or appropriate, even if the very first projections about covid ended up being correct. Even if they were significantly worse! And that's still a red herring by the way, because there was huge amounts of dissent and debate about how inadequate the models were among the scientific community back in fuarrrking January. Especially the Imperial College model, which has been criticized for being incredibly exaggerated and unreliable for years and years. It was a series of international political dominoes that forced the medical community into conformity through moral blackmail and panic, not the measured advice of scientists. This is all revisionist history, and it hasn't even been a year.

>>30788 >Lol if you actually understood the message of virtually all cyberpunk works, Yes, this has been my thought exactly, and I'm continually surprised to see such a high concentration of this small minded nonsense on lainchain. It didn't used to be like this on the internet. I started using 4chan and various forums ~2008, and while there were a range of biases, dispositions, and perspectives, on the whole people were able to agree on the existence of a spectrum of possibility and would acknowledge other ways of thinking. These days, people don't. It's as though they can't. I think exposure to wireless devices and vaccines have a role in this. "Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so."

>>30792 >You are being intellectually and morally bankrupt if you're going to seriously pretend that shutting down the entire world for a six months to more than a year like this has no effect I don't. I never said I thought that or anything like it. Please read what I fuarrrking write before you respond. >But the people who did unprecedented damage now and basically plunged us into a truly historical event also should be held accountable, not scapegoated by this kind of staggeringly lazy thinking. they are the same people. The damage really wouldn't have been that bad if they hadn't been in charge. It is quite possible to get through something like a short lockdown with few economic effects, it just requires sane planning, for instance like UBI and high-quality free medical care. >>30795 during an outbreak of bubonic plague, some city-states would seal infected people into their houses at night. It turned out to be an effective strategy because it would prevent fleas from getting out and infecting more people. Rich people would voluntarily self-isolate to avoid plagues. Isaac Newton was stuck in his family's country estate for a year for exactly this reason. And before you ask, no, I was aware of these long before all the covid stuff. >The world was utterly fine; people hardly remembered them ten years later. people remember the bubonic plague all right. the most immediate and similar global pandemic was the spanish flu epidemic. People got pissed at their governments because not enough was done and millions died, instead most governments decided to censor it. And we still remember it. I would like to ask you which modern plagues got the same level of worldwide spread as SARS-nCov-2, because AFAIK most severe viral outbreaks get contained pretty effectively, like SARS-nCov-1 was. >We have a true unemployment rate that's probably higher than 35% at this point (never trust the official stat for that by the way, it's been an infamous subject of political manipulation for decades). And small businesses are collapsing at a rate that is unique in all of recorded history. why is the true unemployment rate so high and why are small businesses collapsing? I'm pretty sure it's because there is less demand for goods and services. So the market optimizes for "efficiency" and makes a mess of things. This is how our economic system works, it should not be surprising that it acts exactly as it was designed to. Also, this is certainly not the fastest economic collapse in history. Numerous famines both manufactured and natural caused much more complete and much faster breakdown of society, not even to mention things like volcano eruptions and (worse) plagues. >>30793 >I think it's only appropriate to take that seriously instead of just shrugging it away like you do. I'm not shrugging it away. Amazon is evil and should be destroyed for the reasons you say. In fact I believe the same of pretty much all government and corporate institutions. Burn that soykaf to the ground. But I just don't believe that a short(maybe 1 month at most) lockdown was not a good decision at the time when most people/places implemented it, because due to stupidity and negligence, less severe and more effective measures weren't taken earlier. That is my entire thesis. If you want to keep arguing with a man made of straw, be my guest. I also believe that wearing masks in public places is a sensible and easy precaution to take, and people who don't are usually just being spiteful. My family already acts like I'm a trumptard because I don't think there is any point in the "social distancing" stuff outside of public places and I don't think there is any point in wiping down the groceries with clorox wipes. They might force me to leave the house if I refuse to get the vaccine (which I probably will). So when someone treats me like I'm repeating their tired liberal talking points like "we are in a pandemic" it really gets my goat.

>>30800 >I think exposure to wireless devices and vaccines have a role in this. Id rather argue smartphones and youtube did a lot more damage, even among the older population. Almost everyone has their idiocy box with them to stare in and mobile internet, type in any stupidity youtube gives it to you after you watch their adverts, which most people seem to put up with. Nowadays you see people with them everywhere, probably not realizing there even are other uses than facebook and youtube. Nowdays even a lot of text conversation involves many people just posting youtube urls, if you dont have a google account you cant even watch them, if you do you get spammed with these stupid adverts and most other mainstream sites are the same cancer. Heck i have even seen toddlers playing with smart phones, those are off to a good start and parents are too lazy to play with them because they are busy with the smartphone too. Sure internet advertising was always bad, but atleast it didnt steal your whole browser. I never watched youtubes, if anyone replied to me with youtube.com/... i just told em where to stick it, now youtube is the new tv, almost everyone is on it and you cant watch it without an account, terrible adverts and worst of all the users. I have seen this coming years ago, that is why always avoided it, i knew it would become this huge spying machine that is almost need to have now or you are like a caveman in society. Tv even as terrible as it was including adverts wasnt half as terrible as youtube is now and atleast you could change the channels with one button press. Back when bandwidth was limited and camera couldnt be held in your pocket people atleast tried to make something good, now everything is full with cheap mindless crap. Now we have all those idiots thinking they are super stars for streaming some soykafty games and spamming memes and some of those people make more money than brain surgeons or scientists and etc. Todays culture is this adhd click culture, everyone stares into their phones doing google knows what, the future is truly here, cyberpunk is now. I have been on computers since ms-dos 5.1 and have been a cyberpunk fan since before i knew what cyberpunk even was or how computers worked, i never would have thought it would happen, but its here, it really is here. I have never before just noticed the actual transition, when i went to school it was fancy to be able to play snake on a nokia black and white phone or if were richer you had a gameboy. Now you have mobile internet with full hd videos and 3d accelrated games with touch screen controls. Cameras are everywhere and even in my little corner of the world there are junkies doing drugs in every dark corner and stare into the idiot box and generally being loud drugged morons all day long. The modern generation has no idea even how things were, they cant know, even ours almost forgot how it was before you could ask youtube how to operate a pocket calculator. Google and ms have gotten so powerful, they have automated drone strikes processed by ai from data gathered from twitter. The world has just slowly slipped into this cyberpunk dystopia that i always thought of as a cool fantasy, but it is happening and its now and most people have no idea how it was otherwise.

the russian vaccine is still in test phase (3rd), and 3rd world country citizens are being used as guinea pigs. sauce: 3rd world country citizen whose government "encourages" volunteer testing

>>30810 this is correct. It's not chemicals in the water or waves in the air. It's the screens.

>>30817 No. It's not an either or. Exposure to microwaves depresses several brain regions, the anterior portion of the hypothalamus, hippocampus (CA3 and dentate gyrus esp), and reticular formation (iirc, it's frequency dependent and reflection tissue organization and cell shape).

>>30819 >Source: my ass

>>30810 Im still using youtube without an account and without adds. Youre doing it wrong.

>>30820 Stop saging like an obnoxious prick.

>>30820 By the way, if anyone wants sources feel free to ask. Don't let this snarky momo get in the way.

>>30821 but you're still using youtube. That's the point, technology nowadays is designed to hyperstimulate and control. You can mitigate and use free software sparingly but in the end you're just like a coke user who "just has some every once in a while" and "gums it". You're still getting hyperstimulated by the screen. t. same kinda guy.

>>30830 Theres a big difference in how you use it. Drugs work differently by dosage because you have multiple receptors with different binding strength. You dosage it low you only hit the first receptor that has the strongest binding strength. You dose high you hit all of them. Thereby the effect can change drastically. Microdosing to boost performance without other side effects works based on this. The real problem is just getting the dosage right which is impossible if your supply comes from some soykafty dealer. Media like youtube depends likewise on how you use it. Lectures/Guides vs entertainment.

>>30562 oh don't worry we won't nor will Russians have that vaccine, this virus is more of a political tool now for all sides, nations now have a semi-fascist power over their people under the cover of neo-iberalism, this power won't be used for anything but nations' interests both regionally when it comes to medicines and when it comes to the power above the people of mentioned nation, this won't end soon, and Putin knows it, everyone will claim to have the vaccine , everyone will have/claim to have more cases, only the power of the masses would change such fate, a world wide revolution against the unfair indirect power over them.

>>30867 > nations now have a semi-fascist power over their people under the cover of neo-iberalism implying that's anything new at all...

>>30869 i understand, you could say the virus was their most obvious yet most useful tool till now to force such power

>>30867 >>30869 >Government having power is literally HITLER! Come on, you know better than that.

>>30887 it's an opportunity for them, sure. It's a very good distraction and a good talking point, works wonders for fuelling the American election-year frenzy. I think really it's just an established tactic to use these kinds of global disasters in such a way. >>30888 Hitler neither invented nor perfected fascism. For now people seem to prefer a "return to normal", that is a return to the globalized neoliberal hellworld that has been running for the past 20 years or so. The situation could devolve into fascism very quickly but for now I don't think it is. Some people seem to just be realizing how fuarrrked "normal" is, I don't know how they managed to keep their heads in the sand for that long. Police have always killed brown people, dissent has always been essentially illegal, corporations have always owned the government, people have always been isolated and atomized from each other. And by "always" I mean since World War 2 and to varying degrees depending on time and place.

>>30888 >hurr invoking fascism in any circumstance is inherently ridiculous Look around you fat dink

>>30817 Definitely correct. People erroneously put way more caution towards simple, physical things like radiation. The ideology spread through it is way more damaging and it's precisely what has fuсked the world recently. Why is everything so surreal and crazy the past few decades? Internet, numbnuts. It's the god damn internet. But that's the water we swim in now; nobody wants to see it, and even if you do it's many times harder to finally admit it. We are breathing in memetic tetraethyl lead our whole lives through.

>>30562 >is it a political move or not?

>>30659 >I had three friends almost die! lmao you fuсking rube. Probably just pansies who had psychosomatic effects exaggerating their general flu symptoms. Because everyone's so damn terrified all the time. As you said, they didn't die. What the fuсk does "almost die" mean?

>>30659 Oh and if you truly believe the lockdown would've lasted shorter if people just didn't COMPLAIN about it online (I'm following it just fuсking fine) then you are truly retarded. The lockdown will end when they decide it will end. It has nothing to do with the progress of the disease. Did they ever give you criteria for when it would end?! No, dumbass. Because they don't plan on stopping it based on external stimulus. It's a power play. You people are such god damn easy marks

You know, it's probably gonna be part of the seasonal flu shot. The flu shot is more than just flu, but they call it flu shot because that's the popular consciousness about what it's for. It's really multiple vaccines together. So the coronavirus vaccine is probably just gonna be part of your annual flu shot anyway. >Russians have good crackers and probably appropriated data from other companies and research teams which gave them advantage over them. This is good. This is how culture should work. One person works hard and another comes in and takes the credit. Perfect. The unwatched pot never boils. >>Government having power is literally HITLER! >Come on, you know better than that. Apparently you don't know better than that. All governments are evil. Hitler's was especially evil, but not really that far off from what all governments in the world are like. It's just that some governments do their mass murder and other harms more slowly and less visibly, and observing a certain decorum about it that persuades otherwise reasonable persons that it's not atrocious.

>>32149 thinking about the times that the US government has given black or indian populations "vaccines" that were actually intended to sterilize them.

>>30562 I've stopped warning people about vaccines because if they aren't starting to wake up yet, they deserve and require whatever fate awaits. My days of pretending to be God are over, these people and this place are not my responsibility. Though given the chance, my desire to save everyone and force them to be happy would manifest as a desire to torture, torment, and punish, for the greater good of course. Trauma is the only path to meaningful insight.

>>32150 I have a hunch its related. They sterilized native americans in the 70s and they employed nazis with paperclip including the top of their intelligence which gotta be a lot of mental fuarrrkups. It fits in a timeline.

>>30575 >trusting any politician or authority ever ISHYGDDT

>>32173 honestly I'm down to get sterilized. I don't really want kids anyway. But it's pretty fuarrrked up if they're doing it without consent(which BTW they have started doing in concentration camps)

>>32173 Yep. Here in Vermont all suburbanite trust-funder transplant garbage mocks any discussion of eugenics as "conspiracy theory", yet barely 60 years ago they were sterilizing the Abenaki and several others, right here. My distant cousins. And my ancestors came here on the Mayflower. I have people look at me like I'm a stranger as they walk in my ancestor's footsteps. I won't be trampled nor dominated by these people.

>>32184 I read a metastudy paper on medical ethics way back and they wrote some gov guy decided the indians were growing too large in numbers on their reserves and had to be culled. So they decided to do exactly that by sterilizing their women. They basically treated them like a park ranger handles animals. Herd grows to big? Reduce it.

>>30602 This is with mitigations and global quarantine so no. I'm sure you know someone who knows someone who also knows someone (three degrees) who recently died from the virus but they were pretty healthy a few weeks ago. 8 days is all it takes. A lot of people had developed some sort of asthma too which I think is almost suspicious since if you've outgrown it, it shouldn't come back after 30-50 years, and some people (two degrees) who never had asthma somehow got it at this point in time even when they never had it and one of their members died recently.

>>32233 Everyone i know including pensioners had something that went away again. Some had it multiple times in 2 months. Quarantine literally didn't matter. Countries who did quarantine didn't do better in dead rates than countries who did nothing. It's easy to see why. They started with quarantines 2-3 Months after it spread. All you have is masturbation over which country has less infections which is again just a show because there is no equal effort in scanning people.

>>32245 >They started with quarantines 2-3 Months after it spread more like 1 month since the infection became endemic but yes -- quarantine measures were mostly started far too late to be truly effective. Every public health professional was screaming about this, now they just say "wear masks in public and it's probably fine" but retards on one side won't do it and retards on another side get pissy at anyone who leaves their house.

>>32246 Oh right about the mask. The politicians saying no to masks at the start? They bought mask company stocks before saying yes buy them its mandatory. I read finance daily and it was something they wrote about somewhere february/march. fuarrrkers got caught buying stocks.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer/pfizer-biontech-say-their-covid-19-vaccine-is-more-than-90-effective-idUSKBN27P1CT

* takes it * * starts denying holodomor next day *

>>34723 *foreskin shrivels away* *falls off*