Protests and BLM

I figured I'd start a general about the ongoing civil unrest in the west, particularly the USA. People have been protesting pretty much non-stop for the past 60+ days. When/if the media reports it, they are making the protests out to be violent soykaf shows. I've been watching live feeds by woke.net, and the MSM message doesn't match up with what I'm seeing on the ground. Specifically, the cops are instigating a lot of trouble, and have nothing short of a hair trigger on their "non-lethal" (but still incredibly dangerous) weapons. The core message, generally, seems to be focused in on Black Lives Matter. I'm not a terribly big fan of this organization/movement since they generally promote marxism under the auspiciousness of "creating equity" (another loaded word: it doesn't mean the same as equality, which is what we should be striving for. equity is a short step from supremacy), which generally is not a very safe place to put your bets. On the other hand, it is profoundly wrong to say that "black lives already matter", since they are getting shafted and killed on a daily basis. This just happened the other day: https://twitter.com/itsa_talia/status/1291760284575715329 . Check out the thread, it's fuarrrked. So for discussion: - are the protests effective? - your views on BLM? - anecdotes and analysis from the ground if you can - MSM spin analysis. what are their apparent goals? (I'm pretty stumped. They allege to be against Trump, but they promote his view of the protests... wtf) - image/video/audio from the ground - other reasons for protests that isn't being covered? Let's not get partisan about this topic guys, it just isn't worth it. If you see an opinion that you disagree with, do so respectfully or just don't post at all.

>On the other hand, it is profoundly wrong to say that "black lives already matter", since they are getting shafted and killed on a daily basis. This just happened the other day: https://twitter.com/itsa_talia/status/1291760284575715329 . Check out the thread, it's fuarrrked. >since they are getting shafted and killed on a daily basis. Have you looked at the crime statistics? Compared to how much crime blacks commit it seems more like the cops aren't even doing their jobs properly. You're more likely to get killed by a cop if you're white than if you're black. Systematic racism is a myth. >- are the protests effective? I believe that they're effective in a way that more people will start to become aware that a multicultural society will crash and burn. Funnily enough the evil nazis haven't done anything. >- your views on BLM? Disgusting animals, the people who run the organization who happen to be jewish should be jailed. Black lives only matter when a negro who happens to be a criminal gets killed by a white cop. No one wants to discuss black on black crime but perhaps those lives don't matter because they don't fit the agenda. >- anecdotes and analysis from the ground if you can None. >- MSM spin analysis. what are their apparent goals? (I'm pretty stumped. They allege to be against Trump, but they promote his view of the protests... wtf) You're also assuming that MSM is in support of Trump and I'm not sure where you got that idea from. The media has been calling the riots "peaceful" and stores and companies which were being looted by these joggers are giving money to the blacklivesmatter website and similar idiotic organizations. >- image/video/audio from the ground I have something better, memes. >- other reasons for protests that isn't being covered? Perhaps the average African-American IQ and stupidity of the left but that's just my speculation.

>>30466 Cute edgelording

>>30466 Also the fact that these protests have been all around Europe I'm inclined to believe that someone is bankrolling them for one reason or another. >>30468 The memes might be a bit edgy and in poor taste but compared to what these degenerates are doing I believe that they're harmless. If you're referring to what I wrote you should elaborate if you wish this discussion to go on.

This is likely a Soros-bankrolled Color Revolution. The color: black.

>are the protests effective? police reform is now on everyone's mind, so yes >your views on BLM? the Bureau of Land Management is pretty chill, they have a nasty tendency to violate their own guidelines though. Black lives matter but the group "Black Lives Matter" is sketchy imo, looks like yet another attempt to cash in on social unrest. >MSM spin analysis MSM is part of the prison industrial complex and they will show anyone against it in a bad light. This is regardless of "side", the "left" will exaggerate the problems with society when the "right" is in power and vice-versa, but they will both stick to the narrative that peaceful protests are the only correct way. >>30470 anarcho-liberals are different from anarchists and communists. They tend to hijack moments like this. Nowadays they will shout you down if you express distrust of Joe Biden or lack of confidence in reform/electoral politics.

This whole business is staged from the getgo. The first two posts in this thread show well how and what for these kinds of protests are being spun by mass media. We have two kind of extremes now between left and right more than ever. Both skate around the core issues and due to the polarized nature of politics both parties will react to one another and be steerable. As the op has put it so well the left is being used to push a false equality that in the end the small people will have their foot in the bill and the rich will use that. On the other hand the second poster in this thread being another right wing memer with the same memes. They get used well thinking the police are not a violent military force used against all people by the elite. Protesters may or may not be violent and police may think they do the right thing, i dont know honestly, but the fact of the matter is both are used against one another like puppets on a string and everyone who watches on tv is drawn into this. Regardless of what the police think they do if its in defense or if they are agressors, fact remains the police is a top to bottom controlled state actor and only enforce the will of the elite. At best cops are naive puppets used as meat shields for the rich to incite violence, at worst violent trigger happy killers who just want to see blood, probably they are a mix of both, which would make sense as this would confuse people the most. Most right wingers tend to think its the jews fault and all that, which in a way it is, but the jews are only the money handlers and not the masterminds behind this. If anything this blm business shows how "equality" and "tollerance" are being used to play races against one another. Blacks and jews may very well be what the politically incorrect claim them to be, violent and money whoring psychos, but if it werent them, someone else would be taking the role and the game would be played the same way. Blaming blacks and jews will only produce more anger and fighting while the elite will profit from people egging one another on. This results in a situation where both sides are led straight to slaughter one another while the ones on top keep the gains. Concerning trump i dont want to go too much into detail, to me it seems he is setup for president to be shamed by media to further destablize the situation and shake up the trust in the establishment. We must remember it works both ways, the people become violent, the government pushes back and the entire situation escalates, regardless of who is at fault and whoever is involved will be put in a losing position. They are working him out to be the bad guy, which i dont think he honestly is that bad, then when people hate him they can convinently dump the blame on him and put a new patsy in power, along with many other conservative people. The moment i heard that blm was being protested rather than lockdowns i knew it was staged and hope is lost for them. Anyone that either leans to the left or right is doomed, all of this is controlled and steered at levels most people cant imagine and its going very well for these people. Stop looking at what people are doing and look at why, then study system and you will realize all of this is one huge setup. People should have woken up when the lockdowns happend, they should have realized that western civilization is not the way to go and they needed fundamental change that not stemed from the top. They should have dismantled the economy and goverments when they had the chance, lockdowns should not have been enforcable and people should have stood up realizing goverments and corporations cannot be entrusted with power. Instead they so ever quickly picked up on petty issues just hoping to go back to their old lifes where they are whipped and leashed rather than empowering themselfs for the future.

I hope everything goes well for BLM, American protesting always is a joke in places like portland the Mayor Ted seems to keep fuarrrking everything up, as soon as the protest died down to about 20ish people he brought in secret police and put a gallon of gas on a almost dead fire and here we go again. Police brutality has become such a problem in the USA, with mass unemployment from corona and housing assistance almost over it's gonna get worse before it gets better. especially because those same police are gonna be the one's kicking people out

So for discussion: >- are the protests effective? I think they're very effective. The only place that I see anyone disagree openly about the protests is on the internet, but even anonymous opinions criticizing the protesters are not tolerated. >- your views on BLM? I'm not being contrarian, I truly believe that in American society, African Americans have all of the doors open for them. All of the major institutions that I see are set up and have incentives to promote the success of blacks. A white person acting the exact same way in the presence of police, or while being arrested would NOT be treated with the same leniency. The hot buzz word is "white privilege". I see "black privilege" EVERYWHERE. The "systemic racism" stuff is a complete myth. I agree that maybe there is some form of racism against blacks, but I sure as hell don't see it in institutions, systems or American corporations. This is why the "clown world" memes ring so true to me. >- anecdotes and analysis from the ground if you can The first week or so of the protests were insane, and they were actually violent, lots of looting (mostly by blacks). This was only for the first week or so. I watched a bunch of streams, and it was insane. What I generally see is during the day, you have people with a peaceful message, desperately fighting for some sort of moral authority while at night people get drunk and drugged up and try to provoke law enforcement into attacking them. I think many of these night time protesters are desperate to get someone to attack them so that they can claim some sort of moral authority. >- MSM spin analysis. what are their apparent goals? I have no idea. All I know is that people are so desperate to not appear racist, and that it really is probably the worst thing that you can be branded in modern American society. Calling someone nigger, its classless, rude and generally a pretty nasty thing to say, but when someone is called a racist it has real world consequences and can destroy someone. What you end up having is a one sided conversation about race. It's just people bending over backwards to not be racist and an elaborate dance trying to provoke the other bickering side into doing some sort of violence so people can point the finger and say they were right all along. I think that there is something overly analytical about the modern English language, in my view rooted in monolingual-ism and internet culture, where words end up being treated like numbers and that there is somehow a "right answer" to social issues, a scientific and mathematical answer to everything. It's not a right left thing, I see it everywhere from Ben Shapiro and Stefan Molyneux to people in debate culture like Vaush and Destiny. It's more about being "right" than describing what is real.

>>30493 Language is not precise by nature. It takes more effort to understand what someone means than to misinterpret it to fit your own view. When people started getting contrarian as the default behaviour communication went to soykaf.

>>30492 I did enjoy mayor ted attempting to denounce the federal response despite how similar it was to his resulting in him being booed and then the feds just tear gassed the crowd he was in anyway so he got to experience what he had been deploying. How he got to the position he is in today without realising that the mob cannot be controlled by one man is strange. >>30493 There are both legitimate grievances the black community in America has AND black americans have advantages in some areas such as admissions. However it is not the ones with the legitimate grievances who are able to take advantage of the incentives, ultimately as with most of these things it boils down to class. The poor members of the black community have disadvantages that are heavily tied to their economic position and they are disproportionately poor in part due to historic racism and the incentives are unavailable to them, no amount of affirmative action is going to get a 'hood rat' working in an investment firm. Instead we end up with the already advantaged middle class black americans taking advantage of these incentives when they absolutely do not need them, so we have a system of solutions that does not benefit the people that need the help and instead undermines it when people like yourself look at this clearly broken system and question why the fuarrrk they are getting these advantages. You can observe this with all modern social justice movements, they use the suffering of the poor 'oppressed group' they claim to defend to turbocharge their own careers, a middle class black woman can bypass the competition through the use of this where normally she would be just another candidate. But most importantly when you start to actually have a deep dive through the stats and data you realise that most of the issues they are facing are issues for the poor of all races with the racism or whatever just a small additional factor. A poor white man would be treat poorly too whereas a rich black man would not. Its not that blacks are being uniquely shat on, its that the poor are.

I can't stand that it's a race based movement which just pussies out on the grander scale of police abuse but at least it seems to be getting some things done by using guilt of racial implications since not enough care about the poor and disabled and mentally ill that are the main targets of police but anyone can be a target. Even with Floyd after seeing the leaked body cam footage you see he was brutalized because he was having a panic attack which had him not obediently follow orders easily.

about black lives matter: Ice T said it best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlk7o5T56iw

>>30500 >he was having a panic attack which had him not obediently follow orders easily. That's a strange way to write he was having a bad trip.

>>30542 He literally said he's claustrophobic and has anxiety problems iirc. Doesn't sound simply like a bad trip. Also if it was a bad trip that doesn't change anything. There isn't a reason to treat people that way for tripping out.

>>30613 Treating how exactly? How can you hold those officers accountable when the 'roid OD'd on fentanyl and methamphetamine, not to mention that he also tested positive for COVID19...

>>30680 You're arguing with information they didn't have so it's irrelevant regardless.

>>30681 they're just trying to slander a dead guy. Any time there is any police brutality, they wave it off with "well he was no angel!"

>>30682 What's funny is you can often use their same arguments against them if an officer ever killed them.

>>30681 If you weren't high on drugs you wouldn't die from someone kneeling on your neck. Take a look at the full LEAKED footage and tell me that the police officers weren't doing their jobs properly. And yes, the officers have asked him if he was high on drugs and they even told him that they'll roll the window down for him because he kept claiming that he was claustrophobic. Also around the 9:46 mark he was yelling "I can't breath" even though the police wasn't using excessive force or anything. https://invidio.us/watch?v=XkEGGLu_fNU >>30682 >>30684 I'm not stupid enough to mix deadly doses of drugs and to use fake bills while I'm high.

>>30690 I have seen it. When someone has a panic attack they often have trouble breathing. No that is not a proper maneuver to justify.

Like all politics in America it's a bunch of drama about nothing. Every BLM thing is just an overreaction to some cop shooting a person who happens to be black. Cops shoot people all the time, I agree, and that's what the protest should actually be about. Not pretending blacks are still oppressed.

>>30703 >When someone has a panic attack they often have trouble breathing. They also have trouble breathing when they're overdosing... >No that is not a proper maneuver to justify. He was refusing to get in the vehicle, they were barely able to keep him still. Kneeling on someone's neck seems like a perfectly fine way to stop them from moving. Also what happened with the alleged racisisisisms commited by these officers? I don't see anyone calling him a stupid negro or discriminating against his skin color? Weren't the cities burning a couple of days ago because of these horrible white supremacists? The BLM movement is a joke, pic related, for some reason they thought it was a good idea to post this image on their instagram page, funnily enough they deleted it afterwards. The pic is also a bit misleading because they're dumping hispanics under the "whites" label but even then blacks still commit more crime than any other group. Here's the stats they're linking. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43 I wouldn't be surprised if Soros or some other rich jewish person is giving money to these cretins.

isn't it weird how there is a fuarrrkING VIDEO of this pig casually, not even needing to work very hard, choking an obviously unresisting guy to death and people are like "yeah he was overdosing but also had tweeker strength and also he deserved to die because of moral failings" they yell "fake news" any time someone brings up the facts that cops have showed brazen disregard for basic decency or protocol when dealing with protestors, and have frequently started fights, but instantly believe anything that paints this guy in a bad light, because they believe that if he was a bad person(which they already believed on account of him being black) it doesn't matter how evil the people who killed him were being.

>>30722 Yes, the evil cops moved Feorge Gloyd away from the street so he wouldn't get hit by a car, they also offered to pull down their back window (which they shouldn't have offered in the first place because the retard would've probably jumped out) because he was claiming to be claustrophobic. They even asked him if he was high on drugs and of course he lied, how dare they be so evil and full of hate? Why do they keep the black brotha down? The coppers respected the protocol and did everything by the book, all of their charges should be dropped and Thomas Lane should get his money back. >because they believe that if he was a bad person(which they already believed on account of him being black) Muh racism >it doesn't matter how evil the people who killed him were being. How were they evil?

>>30724 >The coppers respected the protocol and did everything by the book except the part where they continued to use excessive force after the subject was already subdued. >How were they evil? they committed murder.

>>30724 Legally speaking, the policemen in question at least committed involuntary manslaughter through criminal negligence. Being a public servant doesn't put you above the law. If you're a law and order hard liner you should have no objections to them being convicted of said crimes.

>>30721 So in other words you think someone overdosing justifies murder to get it over quicker? That's pretty much what you're saying. You can't argue simultaneously he deserved to be murdered while falsely claiming he wasn't murdered.

During world suicide prevention day I've seen a large number of tweets that reported in a politically neutral way the alarming crisis of white male suicides, which are as everyone knows growing exponentially. Those tweets had in the range of 1-5 likes, and the only tweets I've seen with any sizable amount of likes were from queer people who only mentioned the suicide attempts of males who were trans, gay or other minorities, as if world suicide prevention day was only about those. There were also people who cheered that white males are killing themselves. These people at the same time think the life of a black "gentle giant" with charges of home invasion, drug possession and aggravated robbery is worth a lot. There are also yearly cases of hooligans getting "killed" by the cops while they were setting cars on fire, throwing stones at innocent people and other things that frenzied hooligans do during sports matches, people "demand justice" for them. Of course these people are human beings and they have their own story, but regular people, people who in many cases studied, did no crimes, tried to be useful and feel useful to the world, kill themselves, an act so unnatural and desperate, and people don't even think this is worth a like when a news outlet writes a headline about it.

>>30725 >except the part where they continued to use excessive force after the subject was already subdued. It was required because the subject was not cooperating. >they committed murder. No, they didn't. >>30726 >>30740 Have you guys read the autopsy? https://www.scribd.com/document/464269559/George-Floyd-Autopsy-FULL-REPORT#from_embed > III. No life-threatening injuries identified A. >No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae B. >No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures > Comments: The finding of sickled-appearing cells in many of the autopsy tissue sections prompted the Hemoglobin S quantitation reported above. This quantitative result is indicative of sickle cell trait. Red blood cells in individuals with sickle cell trait are known to sickle as a postmortem artifact. The decedent’s antemortem peripheral blood smear (made from a complete blood count collected 5/25/20 at 9:00 p.m.) was reviewed by an expert HHC hematopathologist at the Medical Examiner’s request. This review found no evidence of antemortem sickling. Floyd's family is dissatisfied with the report and they're hiring an expert to analyze it.

>>30747 Please don't be disingenuous. Two separate autopsy reports have been released the one you shared found the cause of death to be "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression". While a second private autopsy found the cause of death was "mechanical asphyxia". Regardless, even if he was a leukemia patient high on acid, crack, marijuana, and heroin; if the negligence of the officers accelerated his death by even a minute, it's involuntary man slaughter.

>>30747 >>except the part where they continued to use excessive force after the subject was already subdued. >It was required because the subject was not cooperating. that is not a reason for force being required. If I calmly say "no" but offer no physical resistance, I am not cooperating but that does not justify use of force one bit. According to both protocol and common sense, you don't use more violence than is required to subdue the subject. The subject was fully subdued for over a minute before he died; therefore he should have been put in the squad car and driven into custody. This is basic soykaf. > III. No life-threatening injuries identified A. >No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae B. >No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures > Comments: The finding of sickled-appearing cells in many of the autopsy tissue sections prompted the Hemoglobin S quantitation reported above. This quantitative result is indicative of sickle cell trait. Red blood cells in individuals with sickle cell trait are known to sickle as a postmortem artifact. The decedent’s antemortem peripheral blood smear (made from a complete blood count collected 5/25/20 at 9:00 p.m.) was reviewed by an expert HHC hematopathologist at the Medical Examiner’s request. This review found no evidence of antemortem sickling. a lack of injuries is not a requirement for choking. He died because he was choked. This is also basic soykaf.

>>30777 >The subject was fully subdued for over a minute before he died; therefore he should have been put in the squad car and driven into custody. This is basic soykaf. You don't generally put someone in the back of your patrol car unless they are calm and sober enough otherwise they're just going to make a mess. It's not unusual to wait with them until a special purpose vehicle like a van arrives instead. >that is not a reason for force being required. If I calmly say "no" but offer no physical resistance, I am not cooperating but that does not justify use of force one bit. The missing assumption here is that you are a sober, slightly geeky image board user, with a reasonable IQ, reasonable temperament and a clean criminal record. Floyd was none of those things. You can't wait until someone starts being violent before your restrain them if the danger is clearly present. The bottom line here is that Floyd was high on drugs and already convicted of a serious violent crime so he couldn't be trusted to not hurt someone in this situation and that's why restraint was necessary.

>>30756 >Regardless, even if he was a leukemia patient high on acid, crack, marijuana, and heroin; if the negligence of the officers accelerated his death by even a minute, it's involuntary man slaughter. Why is all onus on the police to act perfectly? If you don't want to have a violent confrontation with law enforcement then don't get high and commit violent crimes. Is it really so hard? If you're saying that blacks can't help being violent and it's down to the ubermenscher white police officers to always "do better" then you should have a conversation about why you let these animals live with you in the first place. You can't have it both ways.

>>30974 >Why is all onus on the police to act perfectly? That's the standard we hold the military to. If they don't like it they can get a different job, cop isn't some scary job that only .001% of the population has the stuff to do.

>>30975 >cop isn't some scary job that only .001% of the population has the stuff to do. It will be if you riot and defund the police every time a drug addicted thug dies.

>>30975 >That's the standard we hold the military to. If they don't like it they can get a different job, cop isn't some scary job that only .001% of the population has the stuff to do. The question was not why is responsibility weighted against law enforcement. As you say, that makes sense. The question was why is it 100% against law enforcement to the point where blacks can do whatever they want? If you genuinely think the way blacks currently behave is fine and don't think they're capable of doing better then you are the one with the racism problem.

>>30977 It's not weighed 100% against law enforcement. According to the letter of the law, as was stated here >>30726 and corroborated here >>30756, the police officers actions make them at least guilty of involuntary manslaughter by criminal negligence in the case of Derek Chauvin and accessory for his fellow officers present at the time. George Floyd might have been guilty of a million crimes, drug possession, using fake money, etc. And he might've been tried and convicted were it not for the irresponsible actions of the police officers who detained him the day of his death.

that filter gets me every time ;^)

>>30973 >You don't generally put someone in the back of your patrol car unless they are calm and sober enough otherwise they're just going to make a mess. It's not unusual to wait with them until a special purpose vehicle like a van arrives instead. then why the fuarrrk do patrol cars have those metal cages? Anyway if they were waiting for a van to arrive(which I am unaware of), why did they continue to choke him out after he was subdued? >You can't wait until someone starts being violent before your restrain them if the danger is clearly present They actually did wait until he behaved violently. You can watch the video, he was waving arms and preventing himself from being put in the car. That's not the point. They *continued* to choke him even after he clearly no longer posed a threat. >The bottom line here is that Floyd was high on drugs and already convicted of a serious violent crime so he couldn't be trusted to not hurt someone in this situation and that's why restraint was necessary. the previous conviction is irrelevant because the cops didn't know that, even if it was it would not excuse their behavior. The point is that while restraint was necessary, it was *not* necessary to lean on his neck for as long as they did. This is why it was excessive force. >>30974 > If you don't want to have a violent confrontation with law enforcement then don't get high and commit violent crimes. Is it really so hard? he wasn't arrested for committing a violent crime, he was using counterfeit currency. I really do not like the "just do what cops say and you live" angle. It may be true, but that is because cops are, for the most part, violent people who cannot be trusted. Normalizing no resistance at all to police can never be a good thing, it can only lead to a complacent and easily suppressed populace.

>>30987 But he died from heart failure due to a fentanyl overdose, though.

>>30989 I didn't see a 'cause of death' section anywhere in the autopsy posted in this thread. Can you cite that?

>>30990 I am getting ready for Church, no I am not going to pull up a citation for you, you weird nerd. Even if the cop did kill him, that's hilarious and I support the cop. One less thug soykafting up White country.

>>30991 cool story.

>>30991 I agree that Floyd was a thug who got what he deserved but you sound like a retard.

>>30978 >It's not weighed 100% against law enforcement. What is BLM if not "we are perfect and police is the problem"? >>30987 >then why the fuarrrk do patrol cars have those metal cages? To stop people leaning forward and grabbing the emergency break. I've still seen people smash out the rear window from inside. The main thing though is if someone is a puke risk then you don't want them in your car. That's basic soykaf, as you like to say. >I really do not like the "just do what cops say and you live" angle. I didn't say that. I said don't break the law if you don't want to deal with police. As it stands blacks are responsible for 50% of violent crime in the US, so they really have nothing to complain about when one of them [b]occasionally[b] gets killed by accident. Clean up your own act before criticizing the world. >cops are, for the most part, violent people who cannot be trusted. Watch out you're going to hurt yourself with those edges kid. >Normalizing no resistance at all to police can never be a good thing Read >>30973 again. We both agree that it's possible to resist in a sensible way. The problem is not about resisting it's about not making yourself a threat.

>>30992 >>30993 Tankies and fashy guy alike are SNEETHING itt Based Sneetheposter wins again

>>30994 >The main thing though is if someone is a puke risk then you don't want them in your car. That's basic soykaf, as you like to say. Sure, it's understandable. But also it still does not have much do to with the excessive use of force. >I didn't say that. I said don't break the law if you don't want to deal with police. That is exactly the idea I don't like. The law is full of stupid, bad, or unjust bullshit and following it to a T is sometimes impossible(for a while it was both illegal and required to mask yourself in public in NYC). Not to mention that it is not unheard of at all for police to make up a charge as an excuse. No, I don't think "just don't break the law" is a desirable or feasible way to avoid getting messed with by cops. But I do think "don't get caught breaking the law" is. >Watch out you're going to hurt yourself with those edges kid. I don't trust the government or the police. I honestly find it weird that anybody could. They're really just a very large and powerful gang. >The problem is not about resisting it's about not making yourself a threat. exactly, the idea is that people should never be a threat to police, right? So the only thing keeping police in check is the justice department, which routinely gets officers to commit perjury in order to jail criminals, and the officers' conscience. A nation where the government's enforcers are never threatened is one where the government can do whatever it wants. No good at all, in my view.

>>30987 >They actually did wait until he behaved violently. You can watch the video, he was waving arms and preventing himself from being put in the car. >That's not the point. It is the point. Why do you assign zero responsibility to black man for his actions? Is it because he is a subhuman monkey and you don't expect any better?

>>30997 Yes.

>>30997 do you think that spazzing out and being on drugs means he deserves to die in a humiliating and unnecessary fashion? Because I don't.

>>30996 >Sure, it's understandable. But also it still does not have much do to with the excessive use of force. Well you were asking why didn't they put him back in the car right away. >That is exactly the idea I don't like. The law is full of stupid, bad, or unjust bullshit and following it to a T is sometimes impossible That's true. But that's exactly why executive, judiciary and legislator are completely separate entities. Moreover juries are none of the above, they are citizens like you. So even if the separate branches of government conspire and you do end up in court, if it really is a stupid law or unfair situation then the jury will acquit you. The police and prosecutors also have discretion. They don't have to pursue every criminal act they encounter. So it's actually in your interest to not be a dick to police. Again, it's a two way street. You need to reflect on your own behavior too. >exactly, the idea is that people should never be a threat to police, right? So the only thing keeping police in check is the justice department, Well, no. You elect your politicians at every level. You elect your mayors, your sheriffs, even some of your judges, And you have jury trials and a free press. This whole MUH-OPPRESSIVE-GOVERNMENT shtick is incredibly ignorant and self indulgent. You would do well to educate yourself and get some global and historical perspective. But this isn't about you and your edgy anarchist fantasies. It's about the black community and why they can't seem to stop committing senseless crime and then cry about constant run ins with police.

>>30999 >do you think that spazzing out and being on drugs means he deserves to die in a humiliating and unnecessary fashion? They didn't intend to kill him though it was an accident. One bad decision. But how many bad decisions did Floyd make to get himself into that situation in the first place and why do you think none of that matters at all?

>>31001 >Well you were asking why didn't they put him back in the car right away. I was asking why they kept choking him out after he was subdued. >But that's exactly why executive, judiciary and legislator are completely separate entities. in theory, sure. In practice, not so much. >So even if the separate branches of government conspire and you do end up in court, if it really is a stupid law or unfair situation then the jury will acquit you. Sure... in the case that you have a good lawyer, the case is actually heard by a jury(this is not always true), and the jury is actually from your peers. And usually the judge will command the jury that they are only allowed to decide that the law has been broken, not whether the law is just(this isn't true, but it is what the judge will say). Also, prosecutors often move the case to a different county where the jury will be more amenable. >Well, no. You elect your politicians at every level. You elect your mayors, your sheriffs, even some of your judges, And you have jury trials and a free press. This whole MUH-OPPRESSIVE-GOVERNMENT shtick is incredibly ignorant and self indulgent. You would do well to educate yourself and get some global and historical perspective. Most of the worst dictators in the world were elected by popular majority, often with landslide victories. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. I don't really care if most people want the cops to walk around beating people, it's still wrong and it is still an oppressive government. This is even ignoring all the deep, glaring flaws in American "democracy". >It's about the black community and why they can't seem to stop committing senseless crime and then cry about constant run ins with police. Generally they also complain about their much higher poverty rates, their government not properly representing them, their neighborhoods called "bad", their soykafty schools, etc etc. Policing is one aspect of it. And let us remember that drug addiction and petty crime are most closely associated with lack of good employment opportunities or cohesive communities, rather than skin color. >>31005 >They didn't intend to kill him though it was an accident. One bad decision. Yes, manslaughter is usually caused by bad decisions. >But how many bad decisions did Floyd make to get himself into that situation in the first place and why do you think none of that matters at all? Why should they matter? The point is that the cops did something very, very wrong, so wrong that they deserve to be punished as criminals. The particulars of who they did wrong to are irrelevant for that.

>>31007 *state and federal prosecutors, my bad more local prosecutors don't usually have that option.

>>31005 Two wrongs don't make a right. Or in this case however many wrongs George Floyd made before this is irrelevant. The cop acted irresponsibly and immorally by holding him in the position he did. It was involuntary manslaughter. >>30994 >What is BLM if not "we are perfect and police is the problem"? According to wikipedia: "Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized movement advocating for non-violent civil disobedience in protest against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against Black people." Emphasis on decentralized meaning there are no leaders. Demonstrations by those identifying with the group are open and spontaneous. It's disorganized nature opens it up to be hijacked by people with other intentions. Which it has been. Opportunistic people of all races have taken advantage of the protests to riot and loot. Why haven't they (rioters and looters) been tried and convicted for their crimes? The police departments across the united states have been overwhelmed by the protesters. When large numbers of people commit crimes in amidst chaos in urban environments it becomes practically impossible to police thoroughly.

>>31009 I feel kind of bad for the cops, at least in this enviroment. Out of all the things fuarrrked in the US, the police system is admittedly somewhere on the list but definitely below a lot of other horseshit. It's kind of screwed how much publicity this gets over worker strikes.

>>31014 >It's kind of screwed how much publicity this gets over worker strikes. idk if i'd say I feel bad for the cops. they've had it unreasonably good for a very long time. however, this is a very fair point. I think it's reasonable to say that blm is only getting the mainstream attention it has because it lets the rich influencers and brands play along. stark difference from immediately before floyd's death when a rent strike and unionization of essential workers were on the top if the leftist agenda. what ever happened to that?

>>31018 >stark difference from immediately before floyd's death when a rent strike and unionization of essential workers were on the top if the leftist agenda. what ever happened to that? BLM came in and drowned out everything else. This is pretty standard for the US left to be honest... they're ruled by trends and the news cycle as much as anyone else. You hate to see it.

We live in a society

>>31018 >>31025 Considering the whole imminent economic collapse, getting people distracted by identity politics seems like something corporate overlords would be highly interested in. It's a bit hard to take a protest movement seriously when corporations cheer them on their own turf while the others are just gagged. I would not imply that the whole thing is completely industry-backed, quite a bit of it owes itself due to burger culture's own lunacies, but the spotlight is definitely being manipulated.

>>31009 >Why haven't they (rioters and looters) been tried and convicted for their crimes? The police departments across the united states have been overwhelmed by the protesters. When large numbers of people commit crimes in amidst chaos in urban environments it becomes practically impossible to police thoroughly. It's because the police are government foot soldiers and the government also supports these race riots that are going on.

>>31038 >and the government also supports these race riots that are going on. considering they are often provoking them, this is correct.

When I see the videos people are indignant about, the guy suddenly takes a break and starts running and the cop shoots him. Why is this bad exactly? Do the cops not yell "freeze"? If people could simply run away when the cops arrested them, law enforcement would be completely useless. Oh we caught this perp and- oh well he ran away. Next time maybe! I don't get it, if a cop says FREEZE you freeze. Like it or not, you are a citizen under your country's law, and the cop represents the law. If you run and the cop shoots you, the cop is doing his job. I don't understand what's so hard about it.

>>31043 >this young man was unarmed and the cop shot him in the back!! how do you shoot him in the front if he's running away? that's not possible in our Euclidean reality. maybe don't run away when the cops arrest you? >he resisted arrest and he died while the cop subdued him because he was ODing! maybe don't do drugs when you're outside so you don't accidentally die? maybe stop resisting arrest? who the fuarrrk cares about these people when there are law-abiding citizens who kill themselves on the daily? It's so offensive to me that a drug-addicted thug is placed in a position of relevance over literally anything else what a stupid, twisted idiot world

>>30726 >>30978 >>31007 >>31009 >involuntary manslaughter >manslaughter That's not what they're charging Derek Chauvin with solely, they are charging him with second degree murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter too: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derek-chauvin-murder-charge-3-minneapolis-officers-charged-george-floyd-death/ https://www.foxnews.com/us/minnesota-ag-keith-ellisons-motion-to-join-cases-george-floyd-slaying-single-trial The rest of the officers are charged with aiding and abetting second degree murder and aiding and abetting second degree manslaughter. To me, it seems like they are trying to satisfy the masses with the murder charges since there isn't anything that proves Chauvin intended to kill Floyd out there yet. The videos show that Floyd got himself into the position where he died, and that he said he couldn't breathe long before anyone applied pressure to his neck. So then Chauvin used a then approved method to subdue him since he was forced into that situation by Floyd who was struggling: https://www.lawofficer.com/neck-hold-used-by-minneapolis-officer-was-approved-by-department-policy/ I don't really see what is so controversial about the actual case, beyond the heightened charges to satisfy mobs of people, since they are not charging the MPD itself with something.

>>31043 Shooting someone should be the last resort of the police when the caused by them escaping is too great. If you are unarmed then the police should give chase and physically stop you, the punishment for resisting arrest should not be the police officer serving as judge jury and executioner and just killing you. Plenty of other countries have police that don't shoot you when you run and they seem to do fine, the apparatus of the state has a lot of resources available to it that means regular criminals that escape and are identified will just be caught shortly after regardless.

>>31007 >I was asking why they kept choking him out after he was subdued. That was how they were subduing him. If they just left him he would hack kicked off again. Maybe they shouldn't have kneeled on his neck specifically for so long, but they had to do something. >in theory, sure. In practice, not so much. Your elected representatives create the law. The police use the law. The judges judge the law. If the same person made up the law, decided you were guilty and killed you all on the spot then that is actual tyranny. As it stands, liberal democracies like the united states and as far from tyranny as humanity has ever gotten so far. You should be more grateful. >usually the judge will command the jury that they are only allowed to decide that the law has been broken, not whether the law is just(this isn't true, but it is what the judge will say). I don't know about "usually" but that is correct. The jury can acquit you for whatever reason they feel like. That's the whole point. It's a final democratic safeguard against soykaffy unfair laws or overzealous police/prosecutors. >Generally they also complain about their much higher poverty rates, their government not properly representing them, their neighborhoods called "bad", their soykafty schools, etc etc Compared to what? Compared to white people? But white people live their lives in a completely different way so of course they have different life outcomes. There is nothing unfair about that. It's like you sit on the couch all day eating junk food and then cry how unfair it is that you're fat. As if the healthy people who worked hard to stay in shape are to blame for your situation somehow. That's how ridiculous BLM is. >Why should they matter? Because that's the first step. If black people did everything white people did, same family structure, same education, same work ethic, same (low) crime levels and still poorer and getting shot by police then absolutely that is a clear case of injustice and these riots would be justified. But that's not the case is it.

>>31052 Why isn't it OK that the police shoots you if you resist arrest? I think it's perfectly OK that the police shoots you if you start running. I know I wouldn't resist arrest or start running like a stupid idiot, so I am fairly sure I wouldn't die if the police arrested me (oh I forgot, they would have no reason to do so so I wouldn't get arrested in the first place). Just don't run and don't resist arrest and you won't get shot. It this too complicated? You're not surrendering all your rights, this is simply what you are supposed to do when law enforcement arrests you. Americans seem to be against law enforcement because it's a "communist" thing, I'll be laughing when all these innocent, kind human beings that you protected over law-abiding citizens with start raping and killing unpunished.

>>31055 Believe it or not I don't give a crap about race. I see the same things happen with white trash hooligans. They're soykaf people who broke the law while on drugs, they resist arrest and while they scuffle with the cops they die. And their soykafty families start bitching because they see some money down the line. If anything I think the cops should be protected and should have carte blanche when you stop cooperating. If you're not OK with the cops' decision then you express your opinion after you cooperate during arrest. It's not that difficult. In the specific case of Floyd the cops were doing things by the book so I wouldn't even put them on trial. If Americans think the manual is wrong and want cops to just ask perps to please stop doing what they're doing and do nothing more than that if they want to keep their job, they should have a vote about it. But I would also remove their citizenship if they complain when bodycam videos of cops asking >pretty please with a cherry on top, stop raping that woman come up on LiveLeak.

>>31009 >Why haven't they (rioters and looters) been tried and convicted for their crimes? The police departments across the united states have been overwhelmed by the protesters. I'm not sure I understand your point. Why are people "protesting"? Partially because of the lockdown. Many people just wanted to go outside and being there for a "good" cause washed away the guilt of breaking quarantine. Partially economic, if you don't have a job then looting becomes more appealing. The rest is pure racism. Those poor subhuman monkeys don't know any better. It's down to us superior white people to fight against oppression for them. Look how noble and anti-racist I am. Why are the police overrun? Because Trump withheld federal assistance. Mostly because it would play into the stupid narrative that because he's nationalist and nazis were nationalist that makes him a nazi. But also because the burning cities were liberal soykafholes and not his constituencies so he had nothing to gain and everything to lose by helping. Why is media stirring this like crazy? Because it's an election year and the billionaires who run the media monopolies and related industries are desperate the get Trump out of office. Because he is his own man (or at least not their man), so they can't pump him for political favors the way they can with a Democrat president. There's also an international angle. The U.S. is engaged in a multi-front cold war with China, Russia, Iran etc. and they are doing everything they can to destabilize and weaken the US. Getting half the country shouting "fuarrrk the police" and the other half shouting "fuarrrk the niggers" is exactly what they want.

>>31054 Its not ok because it violates the Peelian principles and damages the ability of the police to actually do their job. The wider public views it as disproportionate which means that when people see it happen it damages public trust in the police making their job harder and eventually resulting in riots like what we are seeing. Thanks to the fact that the police is filled with humans who can be corrupt, stupid or evil means that we will inevitably see incidences of them being shot when they weren't actually fleeing or resisting, making the shooting of fleeing suspects that aren't an immediate threat makes this less likely to happen and thus increases community trust in the police. Also supported by the Peelian principles of which modern policing is based upon is the idea that the police should only use lethal force as an absolute last resort (guns should always be viewed as lethal because of how hard it is to shoot to wound in a tense situation) and that the police should deliver people to the judiciary where they can have due process, obviously them being dead prevents. Them going straight to lethal force opens it to abuse. Thats not to say they should never shoot fleeing subjects, should you have an armed subject then shooting them as they flee is the correct response as they could be moving to attack or take hostages, likewise if letting them flee is going to lead to actual death.

>>31058 Ok but those cops were following the procedure. The man was resisting arrest, he had to be restrained, he was high on drugs. If the man didn't resist and the cops beat him to death I would understand it. I am sure cases like this happen, but this wasn't one of them. The cops shouldn't be put on trial. What Americans should push for if they hate this scenario is a vote to remove law enforcement, but whenever someone is raped or killed by a criminal or their son destroyed by drugs or whatever other bad thing they don't want to happen, they should be handed a mirror and a pamphlet reminding them that they voted for it.

>>31057 Some of those cities refused federal intervention and were slow to act locally against rioters and looters (Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis). People got murdered in CHAZ/CHOP because of this shart, and there were reports of businesses in the area being extorted. Mayor of Portland joined the protest against the federal courthouse and opposed the federal intervention, Mayor of Minneapolis sort of just rolled over for the riots in his city.

>>31061 >It's the politicians' fault! >It's Russia's fault! Oh shut up. It's the sheeple's fault. I'm gloating over the social collapse of the US. It's gonna be wonderful to watch all this feel-good crap crash against the wall of reality. Maybe the rest of the world will learn something and put people in their place before democracy goes too far.

>>31060 u sey guy was resisting and had to be restrained? How about no body touch anyone else unless violent crime in process? fuarrrk ur heavy handed protocol

>>31062 Never mentioned Russia at all. It is pretty clear that politicians want this to be a political thing for the election season. >It's the sheeple's fault. The masses are pretty dumb in America, sure, it is funny that social media is basically a command and control program for some people now.

One way to neutralize a potential activist is to get them to be in a group that does all the wrong things. Why? 1) The message doesn't get out. 2) A lot of time is wasted 3) The activist is frustrated and discouraged 4) Nothing good is accomplished FBI and Police Informers and Infiltrators will infest any group and they have phoney activist organizations established. Their purpose is to prevent any real movement for justice or eco-peace from developing in this country. Agents come in small, medium or large. They can be of any ethnic background. They can be male or female. The actual size of the group or movement being infiltrated is irrelevant. It is the potential the movement has for becoming large which brings on the spies and saboteurs. This booklet lists tactics agents use to slow things down, foul things up, destroy the movement and keep tabs on activists. It is the agent's job to keep the activist from quitting such a group, thus keeping him/her under control. In some situations, to get control, the agent will tell the activist; "You're dividing the movement." [Here, I have added the psychological reasons as to WHY this maneuver works to control people] This invites guilty feelings. Many people can be controlled by guilt. The agents begin relationships with activists behind a well-developed mask of "dedication to the cause." Because of their often declared dedication, (and actions designed to prove this), when they criticize the activist, he or she - being truly dedicated to the movement - becomes convinced that somehow, any issues are THEIR fault. This is because a truly dedicated person tends to believe that everyone has a conscience and that nobody would dissimulate and lie like that "on purpose." It's amazing how far agents can go in manipulating an activist because the activist will constantly make excuses for the agent who regularly declares their dedication to the cause. Even if they do, occasionally, suspect the agent, they will pull the wool over their own eyes by rationalizing: "they did that unconsciously... they didn't really mean it... I can help them by being forgiving and accepting " and so on and so forth. The agent will tell the activist; "You're a leader!" This is designed to enhance the activist's self-esteem. His or her narcissistic admiration of his/her own activist/altruistic intentions increase as he or she identifies with and consciously admires the altruistic declarations of the agent which are deliberately set up to mirror those of the activist. This is "malignant pseudoidentification." It is the process by which the agent consciously imitates or simulates a certain behavior to foster the activist's identification with him/her, thus increasing the activist's vulnerability to exploitation. The agent will simulate the more subtle self-concepts of the activist. Activists and those who have altruistic self-concepts are most vulnerable to malignant pseudoidentification especially during work with the agent when the interaction includes matter relating to their competency, autonomy, or knowledge. The goal of the agent is to increase the activist's general empathy for the agent through pseudo-identification with the activist's self-concepts. The most common example of this is the agent who will compliment the activist for his competency or knowledge or value to the movement. On a more subtle level, the agent will simulate affects and mannerisms of the activist which promotes identification via mirroring and feelings of "twinship". It is not unheard of for activists, enamored by the perceived helpfulness and competence of a good agent, to find themselves considering ethical violations and perhaps, even illegal behavior, in the service of their agent/handler. The activist's "felt quality of perfection" [self-concept] is enhanced, and a strong empathic bond is developed with the agent through his/her imitation and simulation of the victim's own narcissistic investments. [self-concepts] That is, if the activist knows, deep inside, their own dedication to the cause, they will project that onto the agent who is "mirroring" them. The activist will be deluded into thinking that the agent shares this feeling of identification and bonding. In an activist/social movement setting, the adversarial roles that activists naturally play vis a vis the establishment/government, fosters ongoing processes of intrapsychic splitting so that "twinship alliances" between activist and agent may render whole sectors or reality testing unavailable to the activist. They literally "lose touch with reality." Activists who deny their own narcissistic investments [do not have a good idea of their own self-concepts and that they ARE concepts] and consciously perceive themselves (accurately, as it were) to be "helpers" endowed with a special amount of altruism are exceedingly vulnerable to the affective (emotional) simulation of the accomplished agent.

>>31065 cont. Empathy is fostered in the activist through the expression of quite visible affects. The presentation of tearfulness, sadness, longing, fear, remorse, and guilt, may induce in the helper-oriented activist a strong sense of compassion, while unconsciously enhancing the activist's narcissistic investment in self as the embodiment of goodness. The agent's expression of such simulated affects may be quite compelling to the observer and difficult to distinguish from deep emotion. It can usually be identified by two events, however: First, the activist who has analyzed his/her own narcissistic roots and is aware of his/her own potential for being "emotionally hooked," will be able to remain cool and unaffected by such emotional outpourings by the agent. As a result of this unaffected, cool, attitude, the Second event will occur: The agent will recompensate much too quickly following such an affective expression leaving the activist with the impression that "the play has ended, the curtain has fallen," and the imposture, for the moment, has finished. The agent will then move quickly to another activist/victim. The fact is, the movement doesn't need leaders, it needs MOVERS. "Follow the leader" is a waste of time. A good agent will want to meet as often as possible. He or she will talk a lot and say little. One can expect an onslaught of long, unresolved discussions. Some agents take on a pushy, arrogant, or defensive manner: 1) To disrupt the agenda 2) To side-track the discussion 3) To interrupt repeatedly 4) To feign ignorance 5) To make an unfounded accusation against a person. Calling someone a racist, for example. This tactic is used to discredit a person in the eyes of all other group members. Saboteurs Some saboteurs pretend to be activists. She or he will ...... 1) Write encyclopedic flyers (in the present day, websites) 2) Print flyers in English only. 3) Have demonstrations in places where no one cares. 4) Solicit funding from rich people instead of grass roots support. 5) Display banners with too many words that are confusing. 6) Confuse issues. 7) Make the wrong demands. 8) Compromise the goal. 9) Have endless discussions that waste everyone's time. The agent may accompany the endless discussions with drinking, pot smoking or other amusement to slow down the activist's work. Provocateurs 1) Want to establish "leaders" to set them up for a fall in order to stop the movement. 2) Suggest doing foolish, illegal things to get the activists in trouble. 3) Encourage militancy. 4) Want to taunt the authorities. 5) Attempt to make the activist compromise their values. 6) Attempt to instigate violence. Activisim ought to always be non-violent. 7) Attempt to provoke revolt among people who are ill-prepared to deal with the reaction of the authorities to such violence. Informants 1) Want everyone to sign up and sing in and sign everything. 2) Ask a lot of questions (gathering data). 3) Want to know what events the activist is planning to attend. 4) Attempt to make the activist defend him or herself to identify his or her beliefs, goals, and level of commitment. Recruiting Legitimate activists do not subject people to hours of persuasive dialog. Their actions, beliefs, and goals speak for themselves. Groups that DO recruit are missionaries, military, and fake political parties or movements set up by agents. Surveillance ALWAYS assume that you are under surveillance. At this point, if you are NOT under surveillance, you are not a very good activist! Scare Tactics Such tactics include slander, defamation, threats, getting close to disaffected or minimally committed fellow activists to persuade them (via psychological tactics described above) to turn against the movement and give false testimony against their former compatriots. They will plant illegal substances on the activist and set up an arrest; they will plant false information and set up "exposure," they will send incriminating letters [emails] in the name of the activist; and more; they will do whatever society will allow. This booklet in no way covers all the ways agents use to sabotage the lives of sincere an dedicated activists. If an agent is "exposed," he or she will be transferred or replaced. COINTELPRO is still in operation today under a different code name. It is no longer placed on paper where it can be discovered through the freedom of information act. The FBI counterintelligence program's stated purpose: To expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, and otherwise neutralize individuals who the FBI categorize as opposed to the National Interests. "National Security" means the FBI's security from the people ever finding out the vicious things it does in violation of people's civil liberties.

>>31061 >Some of those cities refused federal intervention and were slow to act locally against rioters and looters I guess that makes sense. The politicians directly involved didn't want to be seen as being on the "wrong" side by their voters. I know a lot of people on the left were really hoping that Trump would send in the army just so they could jump up and say "See! He is a facist after all!!!1" >>31063 >How about no body touch anyone else unless violent crime in process? I point a gun at your face. Do you want bystanders to do something before or after I pull the trigger?

>>31070 Making empty threats seems to be a recurring pattern for the senile man in charge. Combine that, other officials deliberately pulling their punches for their own reasons, and Brand™ support and you've got this situation. >>31065 >eco-peace The environmentalists seem to have been drowned out too, strangely enough.

>>31063 >How about no body touch anyone else unless violent crime in process? I think people who smear monuments should be shot in the head and thrown in a ditch. Harming the history of your own country is the most vile of crimes, you owe your entire worthless life and your cans of paint to the people who died before you. If you're dissatisfied then build another monument that is better instead of destroying. Destroyers are the absolute scum of the human race.

>>31073 Well they are monuments of destroyers, idiot. Fill every space with monuments? Idiot. >I think people who smear monuments should be shot in the head and thrown in a ditch. You're a destroyer, idiot.

>>31074 Destroying a negative force is a positive act, and a necessity if you want to keep building the future. The monuments that stand in your country are not killing anybody. You are mad that I think your life is worthless because you openly hate and destroy the makings of others instead of creating anything or sacrificing anything that is yours. You lose arguments and you want people removed. That's all you can do, and this is why this new society will never produce anything and will collapse as soon as any effort will be required to maintain it. You cannot create, you cannot even fight. This revolution is only happening because law-abiding people are letting you do it. If people started shooting every thug spraying on a monument you'd pull back in a nanosecond. Because this whole act is cowardly, it's vile, it stands on the kindness and civility of others and you know it. I have not seen ONE genuinely creative act from the little new progressive society. It's all destruction, "subversion" and other forms of smearing things that are beyond your reach. I really despise you Americans, you are so stupid and thankless, like children, you have these guns and you puff your feathers like a turkey all the time, yet when it's time to get real you just bitch and moan. Go full scale war, see who comes on top. Remove the cops you so hate, and tell people to use the weapons they own to do justice. You can't even imagine how ugly things would turn and how quickly the facade will crumble. And stand assured that in a lawless state, someone would take care to stand guard and shoot people smearing monuments., because the monuments matter more than you.

>>31075 >Destroying a negative force is a positive act, and a necessity if you want to keep building the future. I stopped reading right here, the debate is about what the negative force is.The point is defeating corrupt police forces, racism and authoritarianism. Not the monuments, the forces the gov uses are unjustified. If you think harming a monument is the issue here, you are mistaken.

>>31076 >The point is defeating corrupt police forces, racism and authoritarianism. Not the monuments, the forces the gov uses are unjustified. If you think harming a monument is the issue here, you are mistaken. The point is rewriting history. >“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” The West has been over-representing minorities since the 70s, not a single day goes by without a mention of women's rights and racism and other stuff that is nonexistent in the Western world compared to pretty much everything else, all while white people kill themselves and nobody acts or cares or mentions it. US veterans kill themselves and nobody cares, instead you smear their graves like the most disgusting cowards, after they fought for your country, whether they were mislead or not in doing so. I've seen so much open hatred for men, white people, or anybody perceived as "privileged" from this progressive, faux-peaceful movement that backing it in any way would be delusional. How is this any different from the swastika and pointy hats folks? Ironically, their methods are the same. They also smear monuments, they also smash stuff. If this is about the cops why smash monuments? Why smash the stores and houses of honest people who had no role in this? Point me to the people in this movement who condemn these acts and I'll stop putting you in the same box as natsocs.

>>31078 >“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” What/Who are you quoting? That's a very strongly worded, very vague statement. Almost as if it wasn't meant to further a discussion as much it was meant as propaganda. You're statement can't really be refuted if you don't name specific cases of records being destroyed or falsified, books being rewritten, pictures being repainted, statues and street buildings being renamed or dates being altered. In any case. I'll assume you are referencing specifically the desecration of and push to remove confederate statues and monuments. Lots of the confederate monuments were built many years after the civil war indeed after the emancipation of slaves and the civil rights movement in the united states. Surely the inclusion and ease of mind of all the citizens of the USA is reason enough for removing public reminders of the of regimes that used to enslave a large portion of the US population specially since, given the date that they were built in, are of no historical value. As for statues and monuments that were in fact built during the confederacy why not put the in museums? Confederate leaders after losing the war agreed that symbols that would inflate division in the US should not be publicly displayed, for the sake of the integrity of the country. Anon, forgive me for presuming to know you but, I believe you allow biased talking heads and media outlets on the internet to inform you on current events and social issues. Breaking away from traditional media and the "mainstream narrative" does not mean completely rejecting overly right wing or left wing outlets. It means consuming a bit of both, cross referencing both and scrutinize both so that you may distill the facts of any given event/issue over which you might form your own opinion. The same goes with history. Fight your bitterness and cynicism.

>>31080 that is a quote from the book 1984. It is frankly not relevant. If you build a statue of a person it's because you view them as good and worthy of being immortalized. People tore down Lenin statues when the Soviet Union collapsed for pretty much the same reasons. There is no destruction of history going on, except in the case of textbooks whitewashing or glossing over the social upheavals of the civil rights movement and the genocide of indians. It is the capitalists who triumphantly declared "the end of history".

>>31081 >It is frankly not relevant. 1984 is the most relevant book you may read right now by far (but you won't, because you are incapable of making efforts). No, what's happening in the US right now is nothing like tearing down the statue of a tyrant and celebrating your country's newfound freedom, there is no Soviet Union collapsing in America, it's just racial hate and misdirection, and the cops have nothing to do with the end goal. This is the removal and rewriting of history so it can be rewritten into a pleasing PC narrative, and then again into something else entirely because why not, over and over as it is needed. Imagine Europe destroying all the monuments because they were made by imperialists or slavers - people owned slaves in ancient Rome, do we destroy all Roman monuments? It's happening in media as well. Do you know that older movies are becoming lost? Soon you will not find the originals anywhere. You'll only have the remakes, updated to be PC and representative of the beautiful progressive society we are building for ourselves. And then the remakes will disappear, and you'll have a new, updated version, another remake, the old version discarded. Actually, there never was an old version. It's happening with scientific articles, it's happening with encyclopedic sources, with the news themselves. Everything's being reviewed and rewritten in the name of progress by people who are incapable of one tenth of the good will and tolerance that evil white pigs they so despise. The internet has granted corporations and decision makers to manipulate truth at the most basic level. And as long as the poor will keep infighting and hating each other, destroying their heritage, destroying their communities, the truth will stay in the hands of a few people. And the only people with the spine and intellect to prevent this are trivialized, removed and killed off quietly.

>>31081 Lenin statues are in high supply, but a lot of these statues that are being torn down are not. >There is no destruction of history going on, except in the case of textbooks whitewashing or glossing over the social upheavals of the civil rights movement and the genocide of indians. So only your chosen issues matter? Come on, Americans get a romancitized version of the civil rights movement where MLK, the Black Panthers, and Malcolm X could do no wrong. Native Americans (in reality, various seperate discrete tribes in North America and not one contiguous group) got conquered and lost, it has happened to many civilizations and tribes throughout history. What exactly do you want, should the victor just surrender to some random blob of various tribal authorities?

>>30460 Complete establishment scam. I don't think I've heard a single one of these drones mention police quotas or unions a single time in the months this has happened. Nothing but pointless symbolism and assault against randoms

>>30466 >>- image/video/audio from the ground >I have something better, memes. Valid reason to completely disregard your opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZTWTXD2HA0 Ecstatic truth in all its schizophrenic glory

>>30487 Thank you for the good read. You speak of dismantling the economy and goverment, but what would be your system of choice,what would you replace it with, what should have happened and how would it ideally work out ?

>>31082 Not that anon, but: >but you won't, because you are incapable of making efforts Come on man, don't resort to personal attacks especially since it's against the rules (rule 3). Surely whatever points you want to make can stand on their own. In the interest of finding the truth let's argue in good faith. >This is the removal and rewriting of history so it can be rewritten into a pleasing PC narrative The removal of some statues (they can be saved and put into museums if they are of historical value, which they not always are as I pointed out in the second paragraph of >>31080 ). Ancient Rome was a long time ago, 2773 years ago. There are no Roman citizens and no roman slaves today. The emancipation of slavery in the US was only 158 years ago. The civil rights movement was only 66 years ago. The systematic oppression of blacks in the US was not that long ago. To this day there are still systematic institutional actions that keep blacks down economically and educationally. Not to mention the overtly racist political strategies (there are audio recordings of politicians admitting to it being racially motivated) aimed at limiting the civil agency that blacks have in their own communities (the southern strategy, gerrymandering). >It's happening with scientific articles, Science advances, yes. As new research informs older theories, these change into a new consensus that fits newer data and observations. Before certain advances (scientific and societal) the scientific consensus was that the sun revolved around the earth. Historical records will remain of the most prevalent theories, as they have now . After all we depend on them. Science is built upon the shoulders of giants. We cannot keep advancing it if we do not know the history of experiments done before. The scientific community knows this and the appreciate it. The class struggle is real. And I agree with you that large corporations and institutions, if not as a whole act against the interests of lower and middle class people, then are at least headed by economic elites who explicitly have such an agenda, or even, the capitalistic system by it's very nature promotes wealth accumulation for the very few and therefore necessarily poverty for the vast majority. This combined with the history of racism in the United States, and around the world, culminates in easily exploitable racial tensions. Don't feed into it. Realize there is a bigger conflict at play.

>>31088 Not him but what is happening right now is just globalization. The end goal is having an equally poor society across the world and an ever shrinking percentage of rich getting richer. As long as you fuel discord by affirmative action, racial tensions, enmity between the genders with retarded role reversals, etc. nobody will look in the direction of the rich.

>>31089 >Ancient Rome was a long time ago, 2773 years ago. They weren't 2000 years old when they were made, you know. >The removal of some statues (they can be saved and put into museums if they are of historical value But this isn't what is happening. This is just people taking selfies with monuments they vandalized because fuarrrk white people. I didn't say that the monuments must be kept, though I doubt America will have any monuments standing 2773 years from now if they remove everything "problematic", but the way to go about this would be a civil protest and a call for a vote to remove them. You live in a goddamn democracy, why don't you just use it? What about monuments that aren't confederate? You're being disingenuous by implying that those were the only monuments targeted. What about the stores? Did they just target racist people when they went around smashing stores? Do you have videos of people checking for confederate flags before smashing and looting? Again, give me an example of this movement unanimously condemning the wrongdoings and excesses and I'll back them up. You won't find them. Just like you won't find examples of the LGBT community sparing a word against misandry or condemning the psychos who want to kill all white cis men. The "you can't be sexist against men" or "you can't be racist against whites" angle is what prompted me to 180° about this stuff.

>>31090 not him but im asking the same question everyones talking about whats going on and we should stop it but noone is suggesting any fuarrrking alternatives give me your ideas then

>>31093 >give me your ideas then I don't have any ideas because I don't care, nor I believe human stupidity (the one and only cause of all our problems) can be cured. All you can do is watch the train-wreck happen. Probably the only thing you can do is take a page from the prepper's handbook. I'm not into that, but that's what I would do.

>>31092 BLM is a decentralized movement (>>31009). Any statement made in the name of the movement by someone identifying with it can disavowed by others identifying with it. Opportunistic people of all races (who might not even identify with the movement) have taken advantage of the protests to riot and loot. >the way to go about this would be a civil protest and a call for a vote to remove them This has been done multiple times across the united states. Barriers of institutional racism, lobbying, and ignorance have prevented their success. This does not excuse criminal behavior but hopefully it gives you some context. Organized repression of the civic agency of lower class people inflates racial tensions, and the result is events as you have observed in recent years. The cannot be only to increase criminal persecution. That is only a correction. Prevention requires institutional reform which will not come without growing pains. The correction might discomfort a few higher class people, while the prevention will definitely go against the interests of many.

>>31096 The solution cannot be only*

>>31096 >BLM is a decentralized movement (>>31009). Any statement made in the name of the movement by someone identifying with it can disavowed by others identifying with it. Opportunistic people of all races (who might not even identify with the movement) have taken advantage of the protests to riot and loot. Then why does this decentralized, headless movement suddenly become as compact as it gets whenever someone tries to point out that smashing and looting isn't civil, to call that person racist nazi etc etc? This is such a soykafty way of taking no responsibility and making no statements whenever it's convenient to do so. When ISIS made terror attacks, the Muslim community would at least say that the terrorists were "not real Muslims" or otherwise condemned the terrorists' acts. It doesn't take much to disassociate. See this is the kind of thing that pisses me off, this is the same as "you can't be racist against whites". The same movement who puts forward this soykafty manifesto of non-association is the same movement that cancels people who didn't post the black square on Instagram. So full of soykaf.

>>31093 I mean if you want to stop a cadre of global capitalists from playing off demographics into pointless conflicts you kind of need a huge plan that's beyond the means of this board. BUT a lot of the world (even on the eve of the pandemic) is dissatisfied with their governments and seem poised to replace their leaders, so some of them have an idea of what to strike against. However, this specific thread deals with the US's handling of its own protest movements. Of which the first step would be shifting media attention, or getting the other movements to make more noise to the point that they can't be ignored. >>31096 You're saying in theory anyone can disavow it, but not posting examples of people actually disavowing rioting and general destruction. While it's decentralized it gives off the impression that their pettiness as more important than the livelihoods of random bystanders. Like a microcosm of American cowboy diplomacy, it's masturbatory self-justification.

>>31099 I understand your frustration. Don't allow media outlets shape your understanding of these events though. Whenever possible get it straight from the horses mouth. Or, failing that as it often isn't possible, consider both the narratives that are being pushed regarding the events, this way you might get a more objective view of things. Of course in addition to this, apply your own scrutiny. Decentralized movements are difficult to be held responsible mainly because we cannot attribute specific actions to them. Far right movements as well as far left movements in the distance themselves from actions they don't condone this way. As you say terrorist movements in the past have taken advantage of this in the past to further their agenda. Al Qaeda members, when captured by US government agents and interrogated would claim that their agenda all along was to attack the weak Americans by taking advantage of their tolerance and political correctness. They would state that all muslims, in fact, held their beliefs but would not show it. Convenient lie for them. It promotes paranoia whether or it's true. The United States as a direct result to this unfounded information pushed disastrous campaigns in the middle east that wasted incredible amounts of resources and achieved next to nothing. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture )

>>31102 OK but do you have any outstanding cases of people under the BLM umbrella publicly condemning the smashing and looting? As I said, there are notable cases of Muslims condemning terrorists. A ton of them in fact. Where are the peaceful BLM protesters who condemn the looters? The movement is very compact when it comes to calling people racist if they didn't openly support the movement, are the same people similarly compact when it comes to condemning the looting?

>>31103 https://www.paloaltoonline.com/blogs/p/2020/06/03/black-lives-mater-on-the-topic-of-protesting-and-looting https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/hampton/black-lives-matter-757-speaks-out-against-protest-misconduct/291-195de63c-e885-4fd1-ae18-d4b442f60113 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/31/george-floyd-protesters-condemn-opportunistic-looting-violence https://www.foxnews.com/media/blm-chicago-looting-steps-on-message

>>31104 All right, the CNN guy sums it up for me. I'll forget the jadedness and assume the internet and the soykafty people on it have warped my view of things.

>>31082 >1984 is the most relevant book you may read right now by far (but you won't, because you are incapable of making efforts) lmao, what makes you think I haven't already read it? >there is no Soviet Union collapsing in America really? Because it sure does feel like it. >This is the removal and rewriting of history so it can be rewritten into a pleasing PC narrative, and then again into something else entirely because why not, over and over as it is needed. can you provide a specific example? >people owned slaves in ancient Rome, do we destroy all Roman monuments? Rome is also no longer in power. I would also like to point out that a lot of these statues were put up fairly recently, like the last 50 years or so. They aren't historical artifacts by a long shot.

Feeling pretty good since I don't live in a soykafhole where people begin destroying property after an junkie dies on overdose.

>>31113 Same, though I do live in a soykafhole where people held a protest for him. For the life of me I can't understand why do these idiots care about some literally who American nig. They either don't know or are intentionally ignoring the fact that like 9 blacks died over there because of alleged police brutality/"systematic racism".

>>31105 Actually you know what, screw this. I'm so goddamn tired of affirmative action everywhere >I want to promote black/queer/trans/female people! When white males are the largest suicide demographic. Go to hell. I'm so sick of seeing this crap everywhere.

>>31102 >Don't allow media outlets shape your understanding of these events It's always funny how everyone on all sides thinks the media is against them.

>>31106 >can you provide a specific example? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html >The 1619 Project is an ongoing initiative from The New York Times Magazine that began in August 2019, the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative. https://quillette.com/2020/02/17/sorry-new-york-times-but-america-began-in-1776/

>>31116 I dont know if i should laugh or cry. In my small corner of the world there is somewhat of a punk scene that i sort of know a little. Last time i went around town i saw this sticker of some leftwing antifa thing, it read something like "anti-transphobic action". It used to be the exact same sticker content around town but with "anti-fascist action" and without a rainbow flag in it. Its bewildering to me how in just a few months the supposed punk scene that was to stand against injustice and tyranny by the big man and its corp buddies suddenly became some movement to fight transphobes. This is beyond reason, how did in a few months people who have suffered all sorts of discrimination by the establishement, both legal and illegal, somehow turned their priorities to fighting transphobia in a day and age where governments have taken drastic fascist measures like never before in the world. Im not american and luckily for me there were no house arrests out of scare done unlike most of the world, but still i cannot believe how easily these people turn over. How does "transphobia" and "racism" seem important in a situation where measures are taken that can reduce our basic freedom to free movement and economic survival is at stake. Its clear to these people are being steered into a situation that is being used against the people.

>>31119 It's hard to stay neutral when this stuff is so methodical it feels like deliberate social engineering.

>>31117 That's because none of us are oligarchs.

>>31117 funny how you find it funny

If Blacks were really so oppressed for being Black, they can always just move to Liberia, Ghana, or Nigeria and they can take the Ghetto Monkey Lives Matter Nike-lickers within the White community with them. One of the worst parts is that this is began with some methhead ODing and then getting misrepresented by big corporate (((media))) as murder. As a result, that cop and his associates will be denied a proper trial. As for police brutality and overreach, it all derives from excessive laws and regulatory code which all carry the weight of the realistic probability of police violence since all laws are enforced with either systematic violence or the threat of it. It has nothing to do with genotypes or phenotypes other than how half of all homicides are performed by Blacks despite Blacks being less than 14% of the US population and how 90% of Blacks killed in homicides are done so by other Blacks.

When did lainchan get infested with /p*l/ idiocy ? None of these people were here a year ago I swear

>>31093 Literally start mass murdering the 1%

>>31123 who cares m8

>>31119 >Its clear to these people are being steered into a situation that is being used against the people. Co-opt a movement and castrate it with identity politics. It happened to Occupy, and it happens to any left-wing movement that's even slightly threatening to the establishment. Hell, it even happens to non-leftist movements, just instead of "twans wites uwu" they get pushed further right until they're another boogeyman for the media. I want to say they even tried to pull it with BLM a few months ago. Remember all those media companies self-censoring to remove "blackface" and such? Wouldn't be surprised if that was staged to distract from the movement's actual concerns. Like the police brutality that started the whole thing.

>>31124 Not American here. The whole BLM has not left a very positive impression in many people (seriously, how can you make of a serial criminal some sort of Saint?). Also the whole looting, burning and violence things probably has created a lot more of animadversion against them than any poltard ever could, so it's no surprise that kind of feeling is getting more widespread now. The media going full bootlick does not help much either since many don't trust them anymore.

>>31128 You can widen the scope. Gates famous slogan embrace extend extinguish used to kill software competition sums it up universally. As long as you are larger you can take over smaller groups and run them off the cliff. It will cost you maybe even more than them but you can afford it while they die.

>>31117 I never implied that it was. I just want to point out that people who only consume media from one side are guilty of a bias that sees them seeking out only the narratives that conform to what they want to believe. Both lefties and right wingers are guilty of this. Please read thoroughly.

>>31130 >As long as you are larger you can take over smaller groups and run them off the cliff. It will cost you maybe even more than them but you can afford it while they die. I feel this is why Google and other megacorps love to signal that they hire dead weight based on discrimination, other companies are now held to the same standard or they're labeled as racist, but while Google can afford wasting money on tokenism, a small company denies itself the advantage of meritocracy. This is also how they're doing to destroy open source and Linux.

>>31132 in a way its nothing new. Large companies are traditionally on the forefront to lobby for regulations to create hurdles. Once you are at the top you got to make sure to kick the ladder down so nobody can start competing with you. That said its even worse since this year as they did some big adjustments. The way things work now is fed pumps money into hedge fund, hedge fund pumps money into allied companies. Hence catering to the leadership gives you a guaranteed income. Company profits are thereby decoupled from servicing consumers as gov is now your best customer. And of course fed paying doesnt mean that you don't pay. Printed money makes you relatively poorer. They are indirectly forcing you to pay for companies that act against you in their interest.

>>31129 Not American either, most of the family is concerned between pandemic deaths and unstable jobs along with being split across several borders in a rapidly shrinking world. The whole global economic meltdown is more of a worldwide concern so BLM comes across as kind of a joke. Though admittedly we have some poltards here but I think a lot of the non-memeword criticism here is valid.

>>31124 you seem to be forgetting about /civ/

>>31007 <But how many bad decisions did Floyd make to get himself into that situation in the first place and why do you think none of that matters at all? >Why should they matter? Justice is defined as the ratio between inputs and outputs. If we both pick 100 berries and both get paid $100 then that's fair. If we both pick 100 berries but I get paid $100 and you get $50 then that's unfair. And likewise, if I pick 100 berries and you pick 200 berries but we both get paid $100 that's also unfair. So you need to look at inputs *and* outputs. The problem with your position, and BLM in general, is that you're only looking at outputs (black people get killed, boo hoo waa). When you look at the inputs (those black people with violent criminals high on drugs) then suddenly it doesn't seem that unfair anymore. If you want to make a real case for injustice then you need to find cases where blacks and non-blacks give the same input but get different outputs. But that doesn't happen very often because American society is actually much fairer than you give it credit for.

>>31251 what is this nonsensical hogwash? >If you want to make a real case for injustice then you need to find cases where blacks and non-blacks give the same input but get different outputs. But that doesn't happen very often because American society is actually much fairer than you give it credit for. the biggest unfairness in American society is between rich and poor, and black people tend to be poorer.

>>31253 >the biggest unfairness in American society is between rich and poor, and black people tend to be poorer. Then why focus on them being black?

>>31253 >the biggest unfairness in American society is between rich and poor, and black people tend to be poorer. Race is not an input though. If a white person and black person put the same effort into education and work then they will end up with comparative levels of wealth. The problem is that african-american culture has a radically different approach to education, work ethic, family structure and crime. So of course they will end up with different levels of wealth. That's not the system's fault. To follow on from the analogy it's like if I pick 100 berries and get paid $100 and then you don't pick any berries and fuarrrk a sheep instead. Who's fault is it that you have $0? So "muh wealth gap" is not a valid argument in and of itself. You also need to prove that the poor people in question actually did something to deserve anything except being poor. On the other hand if you're some kind of Marxist and think everyone is entitled to the same level of wealth just for existing then you should realize that's a very niche and flawed perspective you are fighting from.

People who think the protests are about BLM are bugmen and rubes. It's like a dog looking at your finger rather than what you're pointing at. The protests aren't about race. They're just the libidinal explosion resulting from covid lockdown. They latched onto whatever convenient rational explanation wandered by, but even in the minds of the people caught up in this libidinal trance there is no understanding that this is not what it's really about. They think they're pursuing justice or whatever, but anyone watching from the outside can see how flatly absurd that is. They never really cared before (twitter whinging notwithstanding) and they don't care now. Soon they'll forget all about it and nobody will question a thing. It's a contact sport combined with a dance party, abstracted away and charged with the incredible tension of shared trauma and the perception of heroic, youthful righteousness. At its core it's quite literally a sexual fantasy. But it's also a twisted outburst of ego-anger because the American people and culture has truly been disrespected and robbed in a real and material way... but they can't admit it for political reasons. They have to deny their own humiliation because they've been so thoroughly tricked into pursuing some other class's interests instead of their own. Probably lock their cocks in cages at night. It's just the usual terminally retarded people who inhabit the desacralized corpse of American leftism like worms. White people spasming and sperging with self-hatred and political confusion, because they've been mk-ultrad and psyoped and don't understand the difference between symbols and the material world anymore. They're really thrashing out in frustration against recent losses of dignity and economic status, along with being cukked by an authoritarian regime that won't let them go out to celebrate or socialize or even have sex lives. This is an esoteric, cultic phenomenon, not a consciously-planned race-based political struggle. The people taking part will never really understand what they did or why. So don't try and divine it for them either. There's no meaning in it. It's just spectacle. They got their freedom stomped on and are doing what they honestly should be doing, but they're too cowed and submissive and psychosexually twisted to admit their true rationale and are doing this embarrassing racial justice LARP which in fact subtracts massive amounts of energy and public sympathy and credibility from real racial movements. They're vampirizing it for their own libidinal needs. If only they'd attack the proper people.

>>31125

>>31257 Because then you can trick all the poors into bickering with each other forever and demanding symbolic goofery nonsense instead of organizing together based on tangible demands

>>31264 Put it better than I ever could

>>31251 You're not looking at all the inputs either. You're ignoring the entire history of racism in the US. Which was not that long ago and still affects blacks to this day. >>31264 LOL. That's a nice word salad with no actual points. If you truly believe this garbage, take a step back, take a deep breath and seek out information about the history of racism in the US (it goes beyond the civil war and the civil rights movement, there's plenty institutional racism today e.g. gerrymandering, the southern strategy). Understand the nature of decentralized movements and their vulnerabilities. >The people taking part will never really understand what they did or why. You're letting yourself get riled up and making broad assumptions about groups of people. Don't let yourself be led on. It'll take some of your time but do some research on the movement. Research beyond watching some select clips on youtube and political talking heads. If you're just trolling then, good job, I guess.

>>31264 >they've been mk-ultrad and psyoped and don't understand the difference between symbols and the material world anymore my favourite line in this since it captures it so well. All I see it worthless symbolism. I don't think I've seen one activist even mention police quotas or unions. Thats how you know it's all fraud. As soon as newscorp had cememnted that it was "black lives matter" then it was finished

>>31264 I'd wager that in this third wave of recent race riots, the people involved have a pretty good idea of what they're in for. What was it, once is chance, twice coincidence, and three times a trend.

>>31281 >>31264 Memes. If people see that splashing yourself with a bucket of water is trending (what cause what that for? I don't remember) they will splash themselves with water. If they see a dance gesture where you stick your face against your elbow, they stick their face against their elbow. If they don't like it, they do it "ironically" because in one way or the other, they have to do it. If you are against the #thing you have to #downwiththing. It doesn't matter what it is, just follow the meme, the meme is good because it's trending, or the meme is bad because it's trending so I will talk about it just the same. Oh it's #worldvegan day I'll eat vegan today because it's trending. Or I won't and I'll use the hashtag to say I won't. Oh look this person died and there's this #narrative, let me post about the #narrative. Follow the meme and write down the tag to mark that you went with the meme, if the hashtag is popular then what you are doing is good, or being against it is good because that's sort of popular too. People's lives is a conga train of memes now. No identity, no self, just memes changing every day and people just following them. And with memes you neutralize personal action in one's community, neighborhood, family, etc. Your family will never be trending, your community, your job, your persona life will never be in the spotlight. People give up their own selves to follow something else's spotlight, somehow believing that it's within reach and some of the light is shining over them too. It's like philosophical c*ckoldry.

>>31278 >That's a nice word salad with no actual points. Are you just refusing to argue with that poster while trying to argue? Come on now, it makes no sense. >there's plenty institutional racism today e.g. gerrymandering, the southern strategy Gerrymandering happens in all of the USA, no party is exempt. >If you're just trolling then, good job, I guess. What would you call your own post? Have some self awareness, it has no substance.

I wish those protests would be /cyber/ like the Hong Kong ones in the end it's just an old school type of protest that happens in France every week as for the ideology, there's clearly some hypocrisy and lots of misunderstanding going on. A humongous junkie getting killed accidentally and a fuarrrker that thinks he can just walk away from a police officer and get into his car while at gun point are pretty dumb things to provoke such ruckus Maybe one day people will start protesting against corruption, privacy violation and other actual problems with the system

>>31294 All about feel good. They start soykaf with nerds but never touch gangs. They will never touch real targets cause all of them can fuarrrk em up. I bet a lot of the demonstrators are also only there to get a free day off. I know it was true for my class back in high school. Nobody cared what it was about it just mattered that going there = no school and so we went.

>>31294 Different mindset, different culture. Or rather they have a very outdated mindset. >>31303 I kind of want a day off but I really don't want to give them any support.

>>31278 >seek out information about the history of racism in the US Dude, I know. I know all that stuff is very real and serious. This is your problem though. There's a transference you've allowed between those very real and serious things and anybody who says that they're against that. You need better political instincts. You're still young and naive. Everybody has ulterior motives, it's part of politics and human nature itself. Some of the people who protest are very serious about these issues, but the vast majority are not. They're just following a libidinal charge, or else they're exploiting those causes to redirect their power towards their own causes and class interests. It's exactly like big corporations getting all wokey to insulate themselves from PR backlash, legal liability, and attract good young talent since all the young college grads are very into this performance (they're also young and politically naive). It's revealing that you think my problem is that I am not informed about US history and civil rights struggles. That's just condescension. The real issue is that these people clearly aren't aligned against any of that. Everyone has a good reason and a real reason. For everything they do. Progress is still possible, but you have to control a movement and account for people's internal agendas—not foolishly deny them, or reactively brand people who point that issue out as simply being trolls or from the other political factions. Also believe it or not it takes "word salad" to describe anything nuanced like this. You think that's some kind of own, but in reality you've just been conditioned to believe anything longer than a short paragraph or tweet is an unhinged manifesto. People should correspond with enough detail to demonstrate they care and actually do a subject justice, not just bicker and own each other online. "Discourse."

>>31310 Just go to the pub down the street and wear some good running shoes just in case

>>31282 They're economic riots disguised as race riots, not race riots. I will stake everything on that.

>>31284 Yes, exactly. Which is why I think the only way to really get out of this with any effectiveness at all is to attack what's unique about these moments: the hypercommunity. Humans have always been caught up in the influence of ideology and culture, but our recent one is functionally different through sheer quantity and ubiquity. Not enough people experience silence or separation from dominating narratives of thought long enough to form truly spontaneous and organic counter-movements. Ever in their lives. We don't have culture and counterculture; we have a monolithic culture with a puppet on one hand to provide the meaningless but engaging and soothing illusion that there is cultural divide: that there is freedom of thought. There's not really much overt ideological discipline or thought enforcement. But we've built a worldwide machine which obviates the need for that. People's individual spirits and minds can't escape the massive black hole of gravitational pull sucking them all together into a cohesive mass. Not when it's this dense and concentrated. We need to be more spread out. I'm still not sure how to accomplish this, beyond hoping that people eventually hit a psychological limit and decide they can't abide the internet anymore and leave en masse or even dismantle enough of it to reduce its effectiveness.

When it comes to yelling at people for not raising their fist when theyre trying to eat... Who looks more civilized now? It's almost as if you can not be racist and not want to be bothered while eating at the same time. I guarantee that that couple who was harangued at that restaurant have since been cancelled into oblivion, or are on the first track to being fired from their jobs. Absolutely retarded.

>>31259 >If a white person and black person put the same effort into education and work then they will end up with comparative levels of wealth. How can you be so retarded that you can clearly outline the problem but fail to acknowledge it? What you’ve said here is absolutely true. But blacks don’t have access to the same educational opportunities as rich whites. Just like poor whites don’t have access to the same educational opportunities as rich whites. Because they’re poor. Blacks also cop a systemic disadvantage because the American ruling class is still butthurt about not being able to own them anymore, but it’s not dissimilar to the state of white trash (except at some point the American ruling class realised they make good cops because their lack of education makes them easily pliable and willing and eager to follow their orders).

>>31316 Yeah, that was some of the most dl baby brained political impotence I've seen in a long while. I get that it's not representative of much of the movement (just the woke white hyperlib fetal alcohol syndrome victims) but what a colossal balls-up. Like what's going to fix institutional problems? Apparently bullying and harassing random nobodies into raising their hand. Yeah good job you nematode dumbasses. God damn that's stupid and pathetic. So obviously just a case of pathology and compensating for enormous loserdom with mob sadism. You can tell that they'll let literally any failed adult child willing to take on debt into liberal arts college. And it does enormous damage to the movement. Don't these types work useless media and PR jobs? And this is still how awful they are at signaling. Shooting themselves in the fuarrrking cock to make even more of the country unsympathetic and also accomplishing nothing of substance. Black people must be so sick of these smelly twats. God that must be so fuarrrking frustrating.

>>31318 >But blacks don’t have access to the same educational opportunities as rich whites. This is apex fallacy, comparing rich whites to poor blacks. The point is that non-rich people of all races have the same basic access to education, libraries and the internet. So if blacks are still worse off then the problem is with their own culture or genetics. >How can you be so retarded that you can clearly outline the problem but fail to acknowledge it? Because I'm not "retarded", you are just stuck in an ideological bubble and can't compute any information that doesn't align with your worldview. >Blacks also cop a systemic disadvantage because the American ruling class is still butthurt about not being able to own them anymore That would imply the "American ruling class" are all confederates. But the richest states and cities all have an extreme leftist slant. So that argument doesn't make any sense at all. It's also not a given that blacks are "systematically disadvantaged" in any way. They get more than their fair share of welfare, funding and affirmative action. >realised You're not even american. Where does all this insight come from about what the "American ruling class" are thinking and how all cops are "white trash" etc? Got any sources?

>>31321 Im not the dude but i can give you a local insight. Germany is basically a province. We get us media 24/7 so people act like they are involved because the news cycle focuses more on whats happening in us than in germany. We had demonstrations over this. So we got our npc's hijacked by foreign affairs. There are a lot of people who soykafpost likwise. Plebbit is a good example, while the majority is us theres a significant ammount of europeans brewing soykaf about us affairs.

>>31319 >Black people must be so sick Yeah that's why they're killing themselves en masse. Oh wait.

>>31322 I understand why you are interested and how it affects you but you can't tell me what US cops are like if you don't even fuarrrking live there.

>>31333 My point was people believe themselves well informed because us news is all they consume. Not saying they are right nor do i participate in any of it. On another note i do believe the posters are about equal - most people have no contact with cops, its either way just people repeating what the same media sources say regardless of where they live.

Remove the BLM and Antifa and ship off the survivors to a tiny island in the Pacific. No guards or cafeterias required. People who think that Blacks are oh so oppressed in the US should consider moving to Liberia, Ghana, Congo, or Nigeria preferably in the ghetto sections or out in the boonies.

>>31357 Liberia was specifically created as a place where freed african slaves can go to escape oppression. Like what Israel is to the Jews. Since blacks as a whole are a drain on the US economy, you could literally pay them to relocate to Liberia and actually be better off in the long run.

personally waiting for western society to crash so i can go back to not having to deal with people trying to make me feel bad for not wanting to be harassed and followed by a cop for being brown in a poor neighborhood

>>31478 Watch for what you wish for lmao

Leftists: all of this will backfire horribly for you Rightoids: all of this will backfire horribly for you too, just will take a little longer Centrists: pfft you guys will be ground up as livestock feed in the thunderdome of the future If anyone thinks this is going to advance or benefit your political movement, you are beyond delusional. This is stochastic unrest caused by an empire in decline. It is not something that has anything like tactics or salvageable meaning. It's rage.

>>31357 racism is like kicking dead whales down the beach

>>31484 there’s no much to regret here

>>31488 Not sure what your position is, but for any position I think it would be unserious to think there won't be blowback coming for virtually anyone who isn't already some kind of elite. When social unrest like this happens it makes things nastier for most regular folks in some way or another. Either from the symptoms or the disease or both. Eschatology aside.

>>31489 there’s worse, more violent ways to go out escaping the surveillance that the middle+upper class capes for when being used on the poor, nothing wrong wishing on a few days of being free to find a rock to stay under before all hell breaks loose. its dooming i know, but where else could we possibly go two seasons into _this_

>>31488 >>31489 E.g. if you don't want to be hunted by cops for being brown, you might want to look at the demographics around you and the power potential each one has for filling the power vacuum that will occur if western society crashes. If you're being strategic and not just taking on symbolic political postures, you might want to consider the possibility that such a situation would just result in way more people hunting you with even less restraint than they have now. Maybe you're in an area where you could seize strong local power and defend it effectively, have a safe community for yourself. But that's a rare circumstance in this country. Look at history as a tool, not mythology. If you're a white person doing it (supposedly; maybe your intellectual reasons cover a deeper libidinal true reason) then you would want to consider the same and how your actions—though having pure intentions—will only immiserate and destroy the very people you want to protect if you really cause it to pop off in an uncontrolled manner. What's most important? Having the right ideas and opinions, or taking actions that really improve the material world around us? Actions that improve the plight of the people you profess to be advocating? If you damage their conditions to uphold an ideal, you're just a LARPer. And you should be ashamed. We can fight for change, but not in this apathetic way in which you want to accelerate the collapse with some adventurist assumption that it will just happen to work out for you and your identitarian allies. That's exactly what the boogaloos want to do, remember? And they're actually fairly prepared for it in terms of networks and arms and strategy. There has to be better strategy if it's going to work out better; otherwise you're just going to strengthen your enemies. But as I've said in here before, this situation isn't concerned with tactics. It's not even about race at this point in a large way. Some of it is, but not most of it. Otherwise why didn't it go down like this after Ferguson? This is all stochastic anger and the unrest of a failed state. People are trying to project theory upon it, or act like they are strategizing and directing it, but they are charlatans. Nobody is controlling this. It's just going to make life more brutal for everyone except the same owners who owned everything before. If you're acting like this recent enthusiasm directly translates to real, lasting support for your movement, you're deluding yourself. All of this will soon evaporate or be subsumed into another transitory libidinal outlet. If people aren't taking that seriously, they're going to go through a lot more pain than necessary.

>>31490 Yeah I think you're being overly optimistic about that. We're not at the bottom yet. Some of us are closer to the bottom than the others, but there's so much more suffering in revolution than this. And even more suffering in total collapse. This is just a failure of imagination, but I really do understand the temptation to indulge in it. I hate it too. But once again, read history as a tool and you'll see it gets way worse. So be careful what you wish for. You don't want to live to regret it... even if you only live a little while. Which most of us would if it all fell down.

>>31492 Like who around you has farmland and real, practical experience producing enough food to subsist off of long-term? I'm talking hereditary experience, passed down for at least a generation, and a proven record of feeding not only themselves fully but also their whole community? Not Brooklyn rooftop gardens that produce nothing substantial except the hip, symbolic image of self-sufficiency. Instagram gardens. Not what greasy anarchists produce in between doing blow and using their parent's credit cards to grab food from Costco. Who has stockpiles of fuel? Vehicles to have real mobility after the crash of western civilization? Nearly every rural farm has a few diesel tanks with enough to move that tractor all season. Who has the arms and ammo? And training to use them? Who has been shooting at moving targets the most, human or otherwise? This should be pretty obvious. Who has communication networks that will survive the fall? How many ham radio operators do you know and what side are they on? Who lives in more strategically sound territory? Will you be able to lay siege on them, or will they be able to lay siege on you? Whose communities are concentrated in small areas that are hard to defend and easy to cut off supplies to? If it collapses, the faction with all these things is going to almost immediately have overwhelming, absolute power. And they will use it like any warlord has in the past. It'll be outrageously ugly for anybody else. And for them too! Because it won't take long for the purity testing and ratcheting mechanism of zealotry to kick in and make them turn on each other until they distill a clear, strong power hierarchy that can enforce an end to the sectarian infighting. That's how mad max really goes.

>>31493 >>31492 it’s irrational times right now, I’ve tried spending time in my city working to detail how our history has got us to this point but it’s seemingly just too much to argue that an unacknowledged punishment mindset has lead to civil rights abuses after the great migration, stringing on a long term formation of ‘self protective’ gang violence gone territorial that obviously no one but gang members think is cute (hell, not even them sometimes), and has opened a modern paragon of how we never really broke out of our past policing, we just have some legal liberal glitter glue on top. Cops eventually started forming their own gangs but that is still apparently just not enough to prove how broken our actions to support society is more than making it inherit deadly punishment for being brown or poor (also accounting white people). Some of these cats who get knocked out and locked up don’t even have a reason on their stops, barely even gang members, sometimes they’re just fuarrrking homeless, either way it all boils down to “resisting arrest” and “disorderly conduct”, they’re just not a headline because they’re not dead. I get that it can get worse, it always can, but now, boogaloo’s are just as much out as the anarchist and the militarized thin blue line tards who blow mental chunks at the possibility of simply helping people are on a ‘protection’ high, and I’m frankly over it if the consistent response is poor faith bullshit that only one class of people have to deal with. Maybe it’s a testament of how ‘weak’ I am but yeah fine, I’m over participating in a society that continues to shove it’s soykaf under the bed generation after generation. We don’t learn, we don’t seek to learn, and I frankly see no reason assuming that we won’t looking at how hard people shove their heads in the sand simply being able to not be a ‘person of interest.’ It can rot. I’m not seeking no power fantasy. No LARPing, I don’t want to ‘prepare’ and be ‘in charge’. I don’t want any of that soykaf, this isn’t me hoping I get to play mad max. I get that awaiting collapse is often echoed as a LARPer’s wet dream, but at worst I very simply want to have an excuse to leave all my obligations, all my responsibility to ‘participate’ in this bleeding, petty society behind and simply disappear. It’s cowardice, whatever. Unfortunately I can’t just do that, and doing so when things might just get better IS the thing I would regret.... but the collapse? It’s done, what’s next

>>31499 **I frankly see no problem assuming that we won’t

>>31499 I don't think it's weakness at all.. I get it, at least on some partial level. I think lots of people want to give up in some way or another, look out for number one. That's natural, and anyone who says otherwise is pushing something. But I guess I just wanna say: if you decide to go innawoods, don't do it impulsively. Strategy is gonna help a whole hell of a lot. And it's a totally valid move. Be your own Kaczynski or something. It's only cowardice if you consider your duty is to some other ideal, not to yourself and your family and hiding them away somewhere to ride out a bad period of history. That's up to every person's own moral calculus I suppose

>>31501 i just wish there was something that could do beyond going to The Woods, but it seems we're simply on the track to collapse. no one wants logic or philosophy, we're in decline, and i want nothing of it thanks for understanding

>>31492 >This is all stochastic anger and the unrest of a failed state. This kind of ignorance is the problem. Maybe if americans stopped being so self centered and looked around to see what an actual failed state looks like they would try harder to save the america they already have.

>>31506 Perhaps I should have said "failing state" to be more precise. It's a fear of falling so to speak

>>31516 As in the Barbara Ehrenreich book

I just want to say to any freedom fighter out there: stay safe and good luck.

>>31065 >>31066 worrisome but got buried state actor bots smh

>>31066 >>31065 What a bunch of bullshit. STOP, for God's sake, attributing to "agents" what is just people's natural behavior. People are sociopaths. The reason why all movements fail is that thanks to the internet they are both extremely discoverable and extremely easy to dismantle by leveraging on public opinion on social media. This is entirely the result of people's divorce from natural social boundaries and interdependence. The lowest common denominator always opposes "movements". The context of the internet is that of social isolation, even within "groups" and sociopaths know it. Majorities will bend over to whoever holds the knife. You simply cannot win on the internet. That's it. You don't need "agents" when you have set up social media, the absolute dreamland for manipulative psychos. It doesn't matter what your goal is, as long as your movement or group becomes somewhat relevant there will be some money involved, and people will want that money.

>>31529 But this appears to be documentation on federal police tactics. I don't understand the comment.

>>31547 >this appears to be documentation on federal police tactics documentation from when and where? what's the source? what kind of activists are they talking about?

>>31554 It's a mystery and it requires further investigation.

>>31529 >People are sociopaths Maybe I'm about to sound like an asshole, but don't you think that's it's more accurate to say that there are sociopaths among people?

>>31556 >don't you think that's it's more accurate to say that there are sociopaths among people? People who worship the sociopaths because most of the time they don't have the skills or guts to do what they do.

>>31313 sure

>>30460 I hate the way BLM openly worships black criminals as heros and then goes shocked pikachu face when others start assuming all black people are criminals.

>>31917 But everyone's a criminal? You don't go outside?

>>31920 If you can name more BLM martyrs than black intellectuals then that's exactly what I'm talking about.

>>31917 Its an observed effect in almost all activist groups, the most controversial figures get lionised because the most controversial figures generate the most press by nature of being controversial. Whenever someone uncontroversial dies the protests rarely get counterprotested or on the news which means they never get the chance to be as big while thanks to the state of the media when someone controversial dies and gets protested it causes lots of coverage which in turn causes counter-protestors and news to attract more attention which causes it to become a bigger event as more people are aware. Classic other example of this is PETA who despite managing to stop a lot of actually fuarrrked up soykaf have their entire media presence (including their own PR) be edgy provocation.

Protests aren't effective but they have nothing else really, things are still pretty blatant and all the normal ways to push for change have been exhausted long ago. Here we love copying you guys, we aren't doing BLM but we had a similar situation with the police killing a white guy after needless punishment and things scaling from a quiet mass meeting to mourn the dead and criticize the police to violence. It's just starting out, so it's a low quality copy of policemen abusing citizens and criminals taking advantage to do crime with the same "2 sides" spewing out soykaf and so on MSM is not an interesting point to discuss really. The most notable places keep pushing out their view of what is going on, while as it happened with Corona and every subject that goes around for a while, it starts fading a bit into the background once shock value is over and you run out of things to say (from a journalist pov). And the evil war to conquer your brain is nothing but a desire to feel important in the scheme of things. I think this will go until elections and be reignited after another black guy gets murdered by the cops. But all signs point to inequality increasing, more discrimination, and more reasons to protest. I find it silly that people fail to sympathize with the message because whataboutmeism, it's not like you can't organize another group and be surprised seeing how much things overlap, but that's old news at this point.

>>31924 So they're just media whores and don't care if what they're doing is stirring more hatred against blacks? >>31936 >after another black guy gets murdered by the cops None of them were murdered that's the whole point. They were violent criminals who overdosed on drugs or attacked police and killed in self defense.

>>31936 >But all signs point to inequality increasing, more discrimination, and more reasons to protest. These identity based movements are increasing discrimination, they brought back an equivalent of "colored", they made the prison industrial complex issues, drug problem issues, and police brutality issues all about American black people. >I find it silly that people fail to sympathize with the message because whataboutmeism BLM is a "me me me" movement. Why be surprised if people who aren't black and/or don't get arrested don't care? >it's not like you can't organize another group and be surprised seeing how much things overlap, but that's old news at this point. What if there is no overlap? What old news?

>>31959 >they brought back an equivalent of "colored", they made the prison industrial complex issues, drug problem issues, and police brutality issues all about American black people This is probably the thing that pisses me off the most about this. That every legitimate struggle can only be defined through their own specific axioms. Like they're the "leading" minority, like they're the only victims and the only beneficiaries with some lip service paid to others. So everything gets overwritten to be about them. I fuarrrking hate the term "PoC", I'm glad no one's directly called me that yet. It's like American Exceptionalism but for black Americans. It's all redefined narcissism. It's as cancerous as white nationalists.

>>31960 Its cause elitism was declared taboo post ww2. So the only other direction left was going down and play to be the greatest victim for benefits. Hence we have the modern victim olympics.

>>31961 What do you think elitism is?

>>31962 >Its cause elitism was declared taboo post ww2.

>>31924 >PETA's PR If somehow this works then I have understood nothing about the world.

>>31956 Sometimes its not a deliberate thing, for decentralised movements like this the media reaction can dictate what ends up being focused on because otherwise the different regions just aren't informed or incensed enough to act. It does seem to be an almost natural process at times rather than a deliberate thing although some organisations do it deliberately, I don't know enough about BLMs internal structure to say decisively whether they're chasing media coverage or just falling victim to this media effect. >>31978 It works fairly well for them, their goal with those campaigns is to get people already sympathetic to donate and avoid certain behaviors. The crazy controversial campaigns keep their supporters focused on them thus generating donations and for some of the campaigns they point out issues (e.g. the fur paint protests) they may not have known about. Its not about persuading people.

>>31979 >It works fairly well for them I forgot to specify "for the cause". Yeah it probably works for the company, since all their marketing stunts do is polarizing people. People who already sympathize with PETA are radicalized over the nonsense, and those who sympathize for the cause but not the company still have to radicalize because everyone who doesn't care for the cause now hates the company and isolates them by proxy. I feel like PETA is just guerrilla marketing at its finest, get money no matter the long term. What I am wondering if this is actually, objectively the best way to go for the cause - not just the company. Literally being an attention-getting whore so that you can get money somehow and get things done vs. not whoring out and getting nothing accomplished at all.

>>31962 >What do you think elitism is? Elitism is "rules for thee but not for me". The shift has been from "rules don't apply because I have money or title" towards "rules don't apply because I am oppressed or ally". Elitism is still elitism though regardless of the details.

>>32000 What you describe is nobility. Only nobles get privileges regardless of their performance. >>31962 Actual dude you asked here: Elitism is about better performing people getting more benefits. You get perfect grades you get a free scholarship, best teachers etc. . The nazis ran a "we are the best fuarrrk the rest" theme as part of their master race propaganda. Post ww2 there was a kneejerk reaction to elitism because of that. You still have scholarships but the focus shifted from nurturing the strongest to nurturing the weakest. Instead of going full speed and telling the slow to get fuarrrked the classroom now adjust to the slowest kid and tells the gifted kids to deal with it. Instead of providing a meritocratic enviroment where best grades get you entry you can simply claim your heritage benefits for a free pass. Claiming weakness gifts you more benefits than strength today. So its rational people go that direction.

>>32002 Elitism is still a thing, it's just not a question of racial elitism. Proffesional victimhood has become a career choice but only a few are able to capitalize on it. So for every twitter snowflake that's gobbling up patreon money, there's many more that don't make anything of themselves because only a few people get to find success. It changes the demographics of social mobility but only slightly since they still thrive on fame and money while others remain obscure and poor. This leads to soykaf like BLM that doesn't give a soykaf about the other downtrodden of the US. This wouldn't be too much of a problem if it was a minor protest movement among larger ones, except right now it's the one everyone that gets all the publicity and support. Meanwhile anti-rent or strikes get ignored despite going for more wide-ranging issues. >nazis If anything, the Nazis were some of the earliest adherents of professional victimhood. Among the usual Master Race posturing you had claims that Germany was being "oppressed" because they lost their colonies, playing to the angle that Germany had a "right" to be a world power. There was also lebensraum where they "needed" more land because they had too many people, despite German birth rates already slowing down. Undercurrents of racialism and ultranationalism were already ingrained in German thought (Blood and Soil literature, Ariosophy, the Thule society, Imperial Germany's own concentration camps), but the Nazi Party didn't rise until the aftermath of WWI where they capitalized on Germany's defeat by playing the victims. Victim politics were a thing before the internet, they find an easier to take hold where information can travel quickly and thus sympathy/outrage can be weaponized. The aftermath of WWII led to a reaction against racial elitism, and even then it took a while to dismantle (i.e. US segregation laws not coming down until decades after, the USSR was still shuffling around it's own minorities, post-war pogroms in Poland, South African Apartheid, Han supremacy still being a thing in China). What remained however was class elitism and the concept of online fame. So it's either money or e-cred or both, but you're still leaving a lot of people in the dirt.

>>32009 to tack on to this: the people who manage to extract the most money/get the most sympathy are the ones who need it the least, mostly. Blacks from all walks of life support BLM but especially if you're talking about the organization, and the social media frenzy, it's run mostly by middle class blacks who feel they have a right to be members of the upper-middle class. They're social climbers for the most part. Even those who say they want to destroy the class system do not act like it. I think the amplification of BLM by the news media is because they're trying to start a race war. It's a pretty standard tactic of the upper class to get people fighting each other over race than fighting with them over class. It might not even be intentional, the upper class might just genuinely believe that race is more important than class. People are remarkably good at rationalizing their selfishness.

>>32009 You're mostly right but you make a mistake in confusing the of what happened with the perception of the people. Reality for most people is the public perception.

Those arguments remind me of this a bit https://www.salon.com/2020/07/25/how-calling-someone-a-class-reductionist-became-a-lefty-insult/

>>31478 why wait until then when you could move literally anywhere else if you don't like the west?

>>32037 it costs over 2,000 dollars to renounce American citizenship and more to get a visa for practically any country

>>32038 >>32037 we're also locked in for an unconfirmed amount of time because we simply didn't care for COVID. apparently leaving the country is still fast and easy though

>>32002 >Elitism is about better performing people getting more benefits. That's meritocracy. Elitism has nothing to do with performance, that's why it never works in the long term. >Post ww2 there was a kneejerk reaction to elitism because of that. >the focus shifted from nurturing the strongest to nurturing the weakest I don't think that chain of causation makes sense. Immediately after WW2 came the Cold War. The West only won exactly because capitalism is a meritocratic system and communism couldn't keep up. >Instead of going full speed and telling the slow to get fuarrrked the classroom now adjust to the slowest kid and tells the gifted kids to deal with it. >Instead of providing a meritocratic enviroment where best grades get you entry you can simply claim your heritage benefits for a free pass. That's because academia has had an acute marxist infection since the 60s. And everyone who does teaching needs to go through academia first. Nothing to do with Nazi's. >Claiming weakness gifts you more benefits than strength today. Agreed. And what I'm saying is that's still elitism, just with different parameters.

>>32054 >>Elitism is about better performing people getting more benefits. >That's meritocracy. I think you're both half right. Elitism can exist in situations that aren't meritocratic. A country club that costs $50k/year to join is elitist but the "elite" in this case are people who have money, not necessarily people who are the best at golf. On the other hand, meritocracy can be a form of elitism based on performance although I would only define it as such if the elites are given special treatment based on their merit, rather than simply being allowed to achieve in proportion to their performance. Like a school policy that grants the best students access to a special study hall with better resources would be an elitist and meritocratic policy, but simply giving these high performance students good grades would just be meritocratic.

>>30474 This guy gets it.

>>31125 yes

>>32069 it boggles me how the right thinks a guy who worked part-time as a railway porter and a nightclub waiter to fund his studies is “master manipulator” of global politics kek that old fuarrrk barely made it to the 2nd page of forbes the american right is a laughing stock

Meritocracy is giving technical specialists political power. It tends to breed corporatism. Elitism is favoring better persons. Some elitism value performance. Don't say ``the west.'' I don't care if the thing is west of something, I'm sure `the east' is west of something e.g. the west: that's the nature of globe. Often persons seem to mistake capitalism for freedom, Oligocracy for communism. Freedom causes those that give more value to thrive. Oligocracy causes oligocrats' favourites thrive. America didn't win the cold war. (Some say it never ended.) Russia already soykaf itself internally since it started because a prussian-stateless ideologue forgot mentioning management value.

Elitism is separating one group for the rest for any reason Meritocracy is a cute word that implies people deserve to be ahead, but you can easily twist it from achievements to inheritance,malice,ability to impose fear or whatever. Just world fallacy is how we're inclined to not give a crap about those who have it worse thinking they deserved it, while still moaning because you don't have it any better for whatever reason

>>32080 >Elitism is favoring better persons. Where do I sign up? I am one of those persons!

Violent black rioters, violent cops... Just send both to Australia, and the USA will be rosy and daisy!

>>32084 Nigel, you sly dog.

>>30460 >are the protests effective? They're doing what they're designed to do, which is raise money for the DNC >your views on BLM? All donations to BLM go through ActBlue and are then funneled into the DNC for the election year. It worked really well in 2016 therefore they've amped it up for 2020. Follow the money. >MSM spin analysis. what are their apparent goals? Their goal is to help raise money for the DNC by advertising BLM. >other reasons for protests that isn't being covered? I believe the looting and arson are a way for "supportive" companies to conduct insurance fraud during the coronavirus. 1) Donate to BLM 2) BLM arranges to loot and/or burn your business 3) Protestors get free stuff 4) Business makes insurance claims on merchandise that wouldn't move due to coronavirus. 4a) Get out of a long term lease since the building is destroyed. Etc. It's an obvious scam. A legitmate protest movement would not attack and destroy their own supporters.

>>32091 >All donations to BLM go through ActBlue and are then funneled into the DNC for the election year. donations to which org specifically? There are a lot of scams with the name "black lives matter".

>>32092 He thinks BLM is some kind of monolith at some level.

>>32092 blacklivesmatter.com click donate it directs you to actblue

>>32093 https://streamable.com/ibqkfr >It's not going to stop >even after election day >it's not going to stop and it shouldn't >*smiles* Even if they lose the election, they're rich off donations. They're not going to stop the gravy train rolling, even if they win. They're making too much money.

>>32095 it's almost as though they see through Joe Biden's fakeness.

>>32307 >It's depressing to think about all the great Europeans who moved to the US to create a super power You mean hunger refugees, those who otherwise would be homeless, prisoners and explorers powered by greed? People moved there mostly not because they wanted, but because they were forced to. >Europeans should not have ever tried to make contact with niggers in the first place and their God forsaken continent. Funny to say that after years of slavery, eh? If white people were so great, why couldn't they do their job without exploiting blacks? They were just lazy fuarrrks, and you call them great? Pathetic, live in your delusion.

>>32307 You need to get your American history from somewhere other than white nationalists. Most europeans didn't move to america because they were "great", they moved there because either their idiotic puritan religion wasn't accepted, they thought they could make more money or they were so desperate they fled there. If Americans didn't want to have to deal with black people they shouldn't have imported hundreds of thousands of them to serve as slaves. No this won't radicalise people to have retarded views like yours eitber, the counter effects its going to have is turning some moderates away from the Democratic party and energise some republican voters. The amount of people that are going to actually become white nationalists because of this is going to be small enough it could be a rounding error. Your ideology is thankfully dying.

>>32308 Not the person you're replying to but I'd like to ask, are you trying to imply that blacks were crucial for the US economy? I'm pretty sure that Europe way back when wasn't a multicultural cesspool and it was doing alright.

>>32308 >You mean hunger refugees, those who otherwise would be homeless, prisoners and explorers powered by greed? >People moved there mostly not because they wanted, but because they were forced to. That doesn't change the fact that they moved there and that they have made magnificent contributions to the world and yet now we see niggers hollering, fighting and trying to shame anyone who even dares to say that Europeans are the reason why the US was a beautiful country in the first place. >Funny to say that after years of slavery, eh? If white people were so great, why couldn't they do their job without exploiting blacks? Slavery was a mistake, they never should've kept the niggers. >They were just lazy fuarrrks, and you call them great? Pathetic, live in your delusion. You're the one in delusion, without whites the world would be a horrible place. >>32309 >You need to get your American history from somewhere other than white nationalists. Most europeans didn't move to america because they were "great", they moved there because either their idiotic puritan religion wasn't accepted, they thought they could make more money or they were so desperate they fled there. See what I said above > If Americans didn't want to have to deal with black people they shouldn't have imported hundreds of thousands of them to serve as slaves. I agree, slavery was a mistake. >No this won't radicalise people to have retarded views like yours eitber, the counter effects its going to have is turning some moderates away from the Democratic party and energise some republican voters. The amount of people that are going to actually become white nationalists because of this is going to be small enough it could be a rounding error. We'll see about that. >Your ideology is thankfully dying. It's actually alive and doing really well in some parts of Europe.

>>32308 Black slavery focused mostly in the South and for the purposes of the cotton trade. And it was industry that was unreliable and was preserved by short-sighted Southern plantation owners who did everything to preserve their status quo. Meanwhile the North held the heavy industries that would characterize America's economic strength. Though that was also built on exploitation, just of the general working class. There's also the US getting free land and resources after massacring natives under Manifest Destiny. Honestly pretending blacks were the only victims of the era is one of the most annoying aspects of American introspection, which is what's annoying about garbage like this movement. >>32310 Europe was in a constant state of war and peasant rebellions until the Cold War, so it wasn't really doing "fine". The imperial phase, when they became global powers, was when they focused on colonizing and exploiting native labor in the Americas and Asia. Even then Euros didn't really view themselves as monocultural, hence the various strains of prejudice non-Anglo euros faced in the US, or why Germany and Italy took forever to unify into nations. And that's not even getting into the question of religion.

>>32310 >Not the person you're replying to but I'd like to ask, are you trying to imply that blacks were crucial for the US economy? How is cheap labor not crucial for economy? Cheap labor fueled colonialism for years. If people worked only as much as they need or want, civilization would be nowhere today. The greatest civilizations of all times always used slaves - from Egypt and Rome to the USA and China. >I'm pretty sure that Europe way back when wasn't a multicultural cesspool and it was doing alright. I'm not discussing what's its outcome now, because that's not my point. If anything bad happens due to this now, it's a punishment and karma for years of slavery and greed. They could just live those people in Africa in peace, but they didn't, so now they must take care of them. >>32311 >That doesn't change the fact that they moved there and that they have made magnificent contributions to the world Some of them were good and really contributed, some of them were greedy criminals and brought destruction and war. You're glorifying those people based of their race, which is wrong in my opinion. Surely, black criminals should be punished, but looking only at the good side of Americans and white people generally is bad. >Slavery was a mistake, they never should've kept the niggers. They have to take the responsibility now. They gave them civilization and now they have to teach those people how to live in peace, after years of discrimination and slavery. >You're the one in delusion, without whites the world would be a horrible place. It would be a horrible place, but it still is. So called white people - Egyptians and Mesopotamians brought us civilization, but they also brought war and destruction. With civilization came new ways of killing and enslavement. You shouldn't glorify these things.

>>32313 >They could just live *leave

>>32313 >If people worked only as much as they need or want, civilization would be nowhere today. this is honestly the best anti-civ argument that exists.

>>32315 I would question if this is even true. Large amounts of progress are made in free time. Remember the whole benefit of settling down in first place? More time to do other soykaf. If people would truly need to work all day in a factory there would be no room for them to improve anything.

>>32316 but that's the thing, the lower classes work their ass off so that the upper classes can have more free time, and in their free time the smart ones develop new and better technologies. Meanwhile the smart people in lower classes become expert tradesmen, criminals, or in rare cases are allowed into the upper classes.

>>32318 of course this isn't a universal but it is definitely the norm historically and in the present day.

>>32318 Innovation comes mostly from the people involved with the job. A rich neet wont improve your production line. That's how the chinese got also ahead. As the factories went there innovation followed. You can't armchair everything, the more your R&D is separated from production the more you suffer.

>>32319 I don't think it's true in the present day. What is genuinely required for a person to have free time to innovate is very minimal. Food production used to consume the majority of our labor, but it is now just a tiny fraction. We have the technology to provide everyone with the basics very cheaply; the labor of lower classes is no longer logistically required for people to explore ways to advance civilization.

>>30485 I laughed. When BLM supported Kamala Harris I knew their jig was up. Absolute BS.

>>30460 In a democratic country, yes, protests are a viable form of protest. In an authoritarian country, you get tanks thrown at you and the event suppressed.

I will give my own 2 cents, I suppose. Firstly, all the protestors are people with mental issues, such as identity or power crisis. If you want an elaboration, you can refer to the first part of Kazynski's Industrial Society and its Future. You might not like him as he is anti-technology, but nevertheless his description of the liberal phenomenon is really good. It's alike of the Nietzsche's Will for Power, where that is proposed as the driving force of humanity. In liberals(I will use this as the all encompassing term for anyone who is overly verbal about their personal justice for the minorities) who have been mentally abused by their parents/peers, and now have a serious power crisis, it will show most prominently. Their protests have nothing to do with any minorities, it's a quest for power. It's a struggle to survive, in a sense. And frankly, I have to agree with the first poster, they are disgusting. It's really pathetic when you think about how they do all they do because they feel powerless. Did you ever experience a short guy pouncing or acting tough because he feels insecure about his height? Something like that, except even more pathetic because it's deeply ingrained. They are disgusting because they have a weak spirit and a weak mind. Tgat's why I choose not to interact with them.

>>34049 well it's really worth 2 cents >everyone has mental issues you're pulling out a Plato like "everyone who doesn't see the world like me should be seen as cavedwellers"

>>34055 Someone who can not live with themselves due to their inferiority complex and incessant feeling of powerlessness and resorts to inventing problems and forcing others to fix them is obviously mentally ill. A human is supposed to be self-content and looking to develop themselves in some way, to achieve greatness. That is not possible for the aforementioned people.

>>34055 >everyone protesters are a minority of the population. They are the outlier and not the norm. My personal take is in absence of religion they found their next replacement which is the sjw cult.

>>32387 >I laughed. When BLM supported Kamala Harris I knew their jig was up. Absolute BS. It's true that it's absolute BS that the BLM grassroots support Harris. A few people claiming to be influential in BLM and looking to boost their personal brands may support her, but that's a far cry from saying "BLM supported Kamala Harris". There's plenty of us on the real left (the ones fighting class-warfare battles, and not the intersectional bullshit distraction-battles that waste brain-time and hair-dye) who are white-hot furious at the whole corrupt DNC structure, starting with Joe "lifelong slave of the military-industrial complex" Biden. fuarrrk him, and fuarrrk anyone in support of him, and if the price to pay for burning the entire fuarrrking corrupt Democrat establishment to the goddamn ground is four more years of Trump, so be it. For us old-guard left, the ones accused of being "class reductionists", the Republicans are merely the opposition. The Democrats are the enemy. Witness the recent alliance of mainstream media and tech companies uniting to suppress news about Hunter Biden. That sort of power in action terrifies me far more than anything Trump could do. Okay, that was a bit of a rant. I just had to get it off my chest.

>>32091 >BLM is an elaborate multi-step financial conspiracy You're giving the 70iq pavement apes too much credit. Step 3 is the first and only step really. >>34064 >Someone who can not live with themselves due to their inferiority complex and incessant feeling of powerlessness and resorts to inventing problems and forcing others to fix them is obviously mentally ill. Mental illness implies that what's in your head is compatible with reality. What if they really are inferior though?

>>34088 The inferiority I speak about is about being human. They are bordering on not being human. I am an optimist so I presuppose they are simply delusional or had a bad upbringing, but in your case they would simply have no place in society. If they are not human and are incapable of living like one, there's nothing to do except get rid of them all.

>>34071 You say the Republican party is "just opposition" as if there is any difference at all between the Republican and Democrat parties from a class point of view. They exist primarily to keep different segments of the population appeased, to keep up the illusion of choice, and to keep the lower classes fighting each other. Both continue to enact authoritarian policies, expand foreign wars and military spending, expand the police state, and keep the nation reliant on oil and environmental destruction. They have the same corporate masters. I think a lot of people in the BLM and BLM-adjacent movements understand this, just not the people who have capitalized on it to further their personal brands. They're trying as hard as they can to fit it into a Democrat/Republican culture war, rather than the class war that it is. The US is a one-party state and a lot of people, particularly young people, are starting to realize it.

>>34092 oh also accelerationism is stupid

>>34092 >They're trying as hard as they can to fit it into a Democrat/Republican culture war, rather than the class war that it is. >The US is a one-party state and a lot of people, particularly young people, are starting to realize it. COMMUNIST DETECTED. DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. BETTER DEAD THAN RED.

>>34092 I recommend a book called The Three Languages of politics. As a lefty you are only looking at the world through the oppression vs oppressor axis. If you learn about the other axes you will understand why different political parties exist and why they fight. The world is not as one dimensional as you currently think it is.

>>34091 >but in your case they would simply have no place in society Not necessarily. It just means we shouldn't give them the same responsibilities and expectations. We accept that africans can't self organize into peaceful prosperous communities. Either take away the expectation that they can and leave them to do what they want (preferably on another landmass though). Or take away the responsibility and organize their communities for them.

>>34100 not him but different parties exist to represent different sectors of the ruling class which might be in conflict with eachother but will unite against their common enemy if push comes to shove. since you consider yourself a "righty" maybe you're familiar with carl schmitt's distinction between conventional/real enmity on the one hand and absolute enmity on the other.

>>34100 >>34103 also kling's three axes are broadly reductive and do justice to neither "conservatives", "progressives" nor "libertarians", let alone anyone who doesn't fall into those arbitrary categories.

>>34103 >>34104 >collapses a 3 dimensional model back down into a 1 dimension >accuses everyone else of being reductive Well, I tried to help.

>>34103 >since you consider yourself a "righty" Have you considered that maybe I don't care about any oppression politics. Not just your specific version. >maybe you're familiar with carl schmitt's distinction between conventional/real enmity on the one hand and absolute enmity on the other. You realize Nazis are still technically Progressives. They just think that Jews are the oppressors instead of The Bourgeoisie or The Patriarchy or whatever. It's interesting that you literally cannot comprehend the existence of a political position that's not based on the oppressor vs oppressed axis.

>>34105 >3 dimensional it's literally just the "conservatives vs progressives" false dichotomy of american electoral politics but libertarians get to be special snowflakes because it was written by one >>34106 since you used the term "lefty" i was assuming you consider yourself a right-winger, that's all.

>>34100 >The world is not as one dimensional as you currently think it is. oh, I'm quite aware that the world is a big complicated place. It's just that I think the range of political stances that the US political system (and most others) allows to determine policies is extremely small. For instance: Democrats and Republicans disagree a lot over whether abortion should be legal. But they never disagree about whether usury should be legal, even though it ruins the lives of way more people. It's no surprise that usury is one of the ways in which money is funneled from the poor to the rich. This has to be the case because an imperial state cannot allow people to question its dogma. The USSR tried that and look where it got them. If enough people question the dogma, the active dissidents are not forced underground, and the imperial structure may eventually be overthrown. To me, an anarchist, the very existence of a state structure (and the closely related form of a class structure) is what must be overthrown. To me, there really isn't that much of a difference between a statist who wants me to have an abortion and a statist who doesn't.

>>34106 >You realize Nazis are still technically Progressives. They just think that Jews are the oppressors instead of The Bourgeoisie or The Patriarchy or whatever. That's actually kind of complicated. The original nazis used to have a left wing that was essentially as you described, it was called Strasserism. However Hitler's right wing of the party seized power, and their version was pretty different, in essence they were nationalist and regressivist, and viewed liberal Jews as a curse.

>>30460 >YOn the other hand, it is profoundly wrong to say that "black lives already matter", since they are getting shafted and killed on a daily basis. This just happened the other day: https://twitter.com/itsa_talia/status/1291760284575715329 . Check out the thread, it's fuarrrked. So let me get this straight. Guy goes on protest. Yells with a megaphone to a policemans ear for solid few minutes. Policeman goes to hospital for the damaged ear. Then the police "terrorized him". He went afterwards to the police station to see what was that all about and got third degree assault charges? Wooptie freaking doo, what a fuarrrking victim he is.

>>34114 Strasserism was just crypto-marxism that was nationalistic, not all that different from WW2 era USSR when you think about it, they wanted to abolish capitalism, have a centralized economy, and to fight against capitalism in other nations. Strasser even wanted Germany to ally with the USSR to fight capitalists.

>>34120 yup. Strasserism pretty much directly was Marxism But The Bourgeoisie Are All Jews.

>>34121 >neurosuggesting that the USSR wasn't also incredibly anti-semetic

>>34123 I don't think that was neurosuggested whatsoever, friend.

>>34123 it wasn't https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm

>>34123 the bolchevist leadership was completly jewish, jews were in fact in charge.

>>34133 That's really ironic coming from Stalin who then dismissed his jewish minister to kowtow to the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact and basically arrested every Jewish doctor he could sometime after WWII. The USSR's "anti-racist" stance in general is completely overestated.

>>34144 ussr helped build isreal more than any other country during its foundation. How does fit with your anti-semitic idea?

>>34144 The so called "Doctor's plot" is Khrushchev nonsense. Check out this post https://espressostalinist.com/2014/08/24/the-doctors-plot/ The red army saved more than 200,000 jews from fascism, liberating them from actual death camps. More than any jewish individual or organization in history. Source: Soviet but not Russian. >>34145 Stalin, believing in the right of nations to self determination, thought that the Jews of the world deserved a geographical home of their own. That is why the USSR built the Jewish Autonomous Oblast and would've much more preferred the Jews of the world to join the project. They were open to aiding Israel in the beginning but it eventually became a tool of western imperialism.

>>34145 Then basically turned against it once Israel started fighting Arabs and taking in burger money. The PLO started taking in Soviet aid and Israel was declared "imperialist". Some Soviets went pretty hard against them. https://radicalarchives.org/2019/11/15/1970s-soviet-antisemitism/

>>34230 >Stalin, believing in the right of nations to self determination Best laugh I've had all day. Regardless, the true champion of Israel nowadays is the US prez, boy what a commie!

>>34256 Not an argument

>>34230 >Check out this post Lmao, I work in history academia and nobody takes ML apologism seriously, not even those who are actually sympathetic. You are joke pseudo-historians that everybody laughs at for wasting so much time spreading false historical information that nobody important believes in anyway. No wonder these online wordpress hot takes about Soviet history never make their way into journals.

>>34107 >it's literally just the "conservatives vs progressives" false dichotomy of american electoral politics but libertarians get to be special snowflakes because it was written by one Even if we pretend the author did zero research and somehow got everything about Progressives and Conservatives wrong. On what basis do you deny the legitimacy of his own political views on Libertarianism? Did you even make an attempt to understand it? >since you used the term "lefty" i was assuming you consider yourself a right-winger, that's all. Why? You talk about class warfare and how the bourgeoisie are oppressing everyone. As far as I know everyone calls you "lefty", including yourselves. So how does this word give you any information on me whatsoever? >person disagrees with me, must be a nazi hurr durr

>>34230 >Stalin, believing in the right of nations to self determination, Is that why Hungary was flooded with tanks when they tried a little self determination in 1956? >>34246 >Then basically turned against it once Israel started fighting Arabs >started How do you think Israel was even formed? >Hello my Semitic friends, even though you don't believe the word of Allah, we wish peace and prosperity on all fellow humans so please take this land as a gift so we may live according to your own religion and culture and independently from us and our intolerant, authoritarian, imperialist death cult. Inshallah! >The red army saved more than 200,000 jews from fascism, liberating them from actual death camps. You mean they opened the gates as they passed by. Are you actually implying that any other army would have just left them trapped inside or something?

>>34282 By "started" I oversimplified. The point was that the Soviets just thought Israel would start out on their side, but then they really turned against them when that didn't happen.

>>34308 >By "started" I oversimplified. The point was that the Soviets just thought Israel would start out on their side, but then they really turned against them when that didn't happen. I see. I don't know how accurate or exaggerated the reports of anti-antisemitism behind the iron curtain are. But I know a lot of Jews did want to get out for whatever reason and Mossad ran continuous operations to smuggle people out of Soviet countries and into Israel. Having your sovereignty undermined by a tiny fledgling nation like that can't have made Stalin happy. And defecting Jews brought all sorts of intelligence with them that was traded to the CIA. But Israel also had spies stealing military and nuclear secrets from America as well. So it's not like Israel was ever really on anyone's side except their own. I don't think the USSR's relationship was Arabs was that straightforward either. Invading Afghanistan and giving military hardware to India ignited a global jihad against communism later in the cold war. These things are never black and white.

>>34282 >>Stalin, believing in the right of nations to self determination, >Is that why Hungary was flooded with tanks when they tried a little self determination in 1956? While I fully agree that Stalin wouldn't have hesitated for a second to send the Red Army anywhere that wouldn't immediately result in a rain of NATO nukes, it should be noted that Stalin had been dead for over three years when the 1956 Hungarian revolution was taking place. Khrushchev hadn't yet managed to rid the leadership of the remaining Stalinist hardliners by that point. I'm not one of those "Khrushchev was a nice guy!" historically-illiterate morons, but during the years when he had cemented his power, the Soviet Union was considerably less douchebag-ey on the world stage.

Many people wanted to get out of Soviet block countries, not only Jews. But Jews had somewhere to go. Also, the Soviets let them go for two espionage related reasons: the lesser Jews in Soviet block countries, the less potential spies could be recruited by USA/Israel. Secondly, by letting a lot of Jews go to the west, the Soviets could sneak some of their own agents pretending to be Jews, or simply blackmail real Jews into spying for the USSR or else their friends and families left behind behind the Iron Curtain would get hurt.

As a Hispanic myself i prefer Not to identify with these groups. I'm an Individual first and for most part I'm have empathy for my fellow man. But empathy can be used as a weapon and you would let yourself be exploited by bad actors or groups seeking to do nefarious things. when i see these "protests" something feels off like there are forces behind the scenes controlling them. I do not and will not support these people in anyway shape or form they are the establishment while claiming the victim status, While promoting dogmatic ideologies and brainwashing. It's a perfect storm, a self perpetuating cycle of misinformation,distrust,sorrow,hate,anger,vengeance, and death. blinded by fear and motivated by so called "justice" these groups feel justified in heinous acts, Hurting innocent civilians while being vindicated by the mainstream media as if nothing ever happened. these groups have the backing of the state behind them as well as funding and endorsements from corporations. Its really quite simple >person dies >it was racism >riots ensue >innocent civilians die >facts prove the situation was more nuanced than that >repeat Whoever is funding them is controlling them at the very top its not "a grassroots movement" like they would have you believe. Just a massive group of people that can be controlled to do anything they want them to do. mindless. think for yourself guys that's all

>>34328 >these groups have the backing of the state behind them as well as funding and endorsements from corporations. really? You don't think the state is pretty clearly against them, what with all the curfews and military police running around beating people? Or do you mean that some governments have chosen to actually address the issues that the riots started over rather than quell them (which only works until the next one fires up) >Whoever is funding them is controlling them at the very top its not "a grassroots movement" like they would have you believe. How do you think this funding occurs? How and to whom do you think this funding is distributed? I have read few detailed reports from people who have infiltrated these groups but if it's anything like the "militia" movement or white nationalists, they're just a bunch of lonely teenagers who want to believe in something, and there's no real leadership in any sense. Most of the monetary side of these kinds of things seems to be far away from people actually on the streets... probably because most of the monetary side is corporations and fashionistas trying to cash in on the winds of social change. Think about how Coca-cola commodified hippie-ism back in the 60s and 70s. Same soykaf here. A lot of people like to point to the blacklivesmatter.org people, they're widely distrusted among most people I know adjacent to the movement (including people who participated in riots). I've seen a few medics e-begging for funding but that's about it. The Dems don't really support this crap. Hell LA is a Demcorat stronghold and it has one of the worst police forces in the country, and they clamped down relatively hard. Dems just want to paint rioters in a better light because it makes their enemies look bad. In a year when Biden is in power you'll barely hear about the riots at all on the liberal news while they get beat down, and in the end nothing substantial will change.

>>34331 Its called hegelian dialect, you create a fitting problem for the solution you want to push. Instead of having to advertise your policy the people will beg you for it to solve the problem. You need troublemakers to legitimize the laws passed off as against troublemakers.

>>34332 >Its called hegelian dialect, you create a fitting problem for the solution you want to push I'm not much for hegelianism >Instead of having to advertise your policy the people will beg you for it to solve the problem. well that's just the thing... I think a pretty large segment of young people in the US these days don't believe that anyone in the government is capable or willing to solve problems. Basically that tactic only works when you have legitimacy and they don't really have legitimacy any more. You have the boogaloo boys thinking that the government is taken over by the jews and you have the radical socialists who think that the government is an illegitimate police state. At least among the younger and poorer populace those are the only real political options now, everything else is such an obvious lie that it can be dismissed out of hand. The two sides both believe they are persecuted and that their enemy has the upper hand, but one thing they both agree on is that the government is apparently incapable of doing its job. So, yeah, if someone is trying to create a problem for themselves to solve they're not doing a very good job of it.

>>34333 and while I do sympathize more with the radical socialist side of that divide, I just can't take them seriously. They're fuarrrking idiots when you get down to it, especially the people who think that voting is important. So, yeah. The country is fuarrrked and good riddance, but it's a bumpy bumpy ride from here on out.

>>34328 >Hurting innocent civilians while being vindicated by the mainstream media as if nothing ever happened In pre-internet times, just reporting something was good enough for media to stay in business. Now that information is free, the media needs to add an emotional punch to every headline if they want to stay competitive. Humans are very sensitive to injustice (or perceived injustice). That's why every headline is "poor oppressed person of blackness was murdered by police for literally no reason because systemic racism blah blah blah". It makes people angry and more engaged with the content. The other thing humans are sensitive to is fear. That's why the rest of the headlines are about which suburb the mostly peaceful protesters are going to burn down next. "It could be yours, click here to find out". >>34331 >In a year when Biden is in power you'll barely hear about the riots at all on the liberal news while they get beat down, Why would there still be riots after the party that funds them gains power? >>34332 Pic related.

>>34333 >well that's just the thing... I think a pretty large segment of young people in the US these days don't believe that anyone in the government is capable or willing to solve problems. You realize that the riots are the problem people want solved here, not the racial oppression fairy tails. >radical socialists who think that the government is an illegitimate police state You mean anarchists? Socialism can only exist in a police state.

>>34333 I mean you dont have to like it but it works. People would have never cheered on cutting their privacy rights and breaking constitutions while doing so without getting fearmongered with the war on terror for example.

>>34331 >You don't think the state is pretty clearly against them, what with all the curfews and military police running around beating people? Well Ive had my run ins with cops in past as such i don't like the feds or local police they are kind of in a grey area for me. But dont expect to get a gold star for laying siege to a federally owned courthouse for more than a 100 days injuring local police,dhs, and other departments by the use of lasers,hammers and other weapons. how stupid do you have to be to want to do something like that feel like its a good idea then complain when you get arrested. which by the way mayor ted wheeler of portland let this soykaf go on and on with no end in sight pulled the local pd back so this siege against the courthouse could go on and pretty much give them roughshot to do whatever the fuarrrk they want. they would get arrested that night then released the next day only to start the whole process over again. if that is not endorsement of the state I've know idea what is. which brings me to my next point why attack a federal courthouse for 100 days? what was the goal? who ordered it and why? It was a controlled attack. they wanted to drive the feds out of courthouse my question is who wanted that done and for what purpose? >but if it's anything like the "militia" movement or white nationalists having a militia is not illegal >they're just a bunch of lonely teenagers who want to believe in something that doesn't excuse soykaf. talk about a more easily exploited demographic through social media activism

>>34345 > mayor ted wheeler of portland let this soykaf go on and on with no end in sight In democracies, politicians are just a reflection of the electorate who vote for them.

>>34337 did you even read my post? My point is that it only works when the government has legitimacy >>34335 >Why would there still be riots after the party that funds them gains power? because none of the reasons people were rioting have been resolved. If you think the people on the streets are literally getting a paycheck from the Democratic party... that's just fuarrrking dumb. >>34336 >You realize that the riots are the problem people want solved here, not the racial oppression fairy tails. And look how well the government is solving that problem! Oh wait. >>34345 >But dont expect to get a gold star for laying siege to a federally owned courthouse for more than a 100 days injuring local police,dhs, and other departments by the use of lasers,hammers and other weapons. how stupid do you have to be to want to do something like that feel like its a good idea then complain when you get arrested. a lot more happened than that. There were hundreds of protests nationwide (if not thousands), and those that turned violent almost always did so in response to police aggression. Plus when the DHS moved in to Portland they weren't actually arresting people, they were just throwing them in vans and dropping them off at the police station for a few hours. Most people didn't even get booked. >what was the goal? who ordered it and why? you're assuming there was a goal and that someone ordered it. A simpler explanation is that there was no goal and nobody really had a plan. It was, after all, a stupid idea. >having a militia is not illegal I never said it was, but it's a fact that the "militia" movement is disorganized. Unless you have some hard facts, it seems pretty reasonable to expect their counterparts are too. >that doesn't excuse soykaf. talk about a more easily exploited demographic through social media activism social media "activists" and actual activists are a completely different breed.

A conspiracy theorist is someone who would rather believe that the world is known and controlled by shadowy evildoers instead of the truth, which is that the world is unknown and nobody is in charge. -Saint Sardonicus III the Funger

>>34350 >DHS moved into portland They had the right to protect federal property everything they did was within the law >those that turned violent almost always did so in response to police aggression so you are justifying violence against police who in most cases not all were just defending themselves? >Plus when the DHS moved in to Portland they weren't actually arresting people, they were just throwing them in vans and dropping them off at the police station for a few hours. Most people didn't even get booked. I literally just said that. ted wheeler and the DA refused to prosecute them thats why the feds deputized the local pd. because he wouldn't do soykaf but promote more chaos. >you're assuming there was a goal and that someone ordered it. well i might be. It seems pretty systematic if you ask me but after all it was just an opinion I was stating. Is i really so hard to believe there was a reason other than 100 days of chaos? the even have war chants to hype up the mob and attack the officers, telling them to stick together ect. >>34351 nothing to see here folks just move along. don't question anything just believe.

>>34349 which i find to be completely hilarious because ted wheeler went to the riots and got bombarded by is voting base calling for him to resign only to let the local pd arrest the rioter's instead of dhs like 2 weeks later. then they set fireworks off in his apartment complex prompting him to move lamo.

>>34353 >by his voting base calling for him to resign The rioters aren't his base obviously. Otherwise why would they want him to resign? His base is people who want to go easy on the rioters but also don't want to make any actual concessions to them. West coast liberals, in other words. If the mayor was a conservative willing to go full police state on them, or else a leftist willing to give them the reforms they want, the problem you're describing wouldn't exist. Democratic politicians are going to keep being put in positions like this until the party breaks one way or the other, which isn't going to be pretty.

>>34354 But hes letting his own city burn by cowtowing to these people he was bowing before the alter and that wasn't enough for them. so in other words give us what we want or we will burn this city to the ground which was chanted all across the country >If we dont get it shut it down this is not how soykaf shoud be run but whatever dude.

one of my relatives live in Canada is there a safe country he can move to before the dreaded election day he even showed me one of the BLM protests outside the window via ZOOM how do i help him leave America Covid 19 took his job and most airports are probably still on lockdown

>>34356 Snarky response: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation Non-snarky response: If you're looking to help an American move to another country, you're probably out of luck. The only countries still welcoming Americans are typically the ones who have fuarrrked up their COVID response even more than America has. Unless your friend has dual-citizenship somewhere chances are he's stuck in the US.

>>34352 >nothing to see here folks just move along. don't question anything just believe. oh there's quite a lot to see, and very little to believe. If you believe that there are structures, that it is systematic, that there's a puppetmaster... well that's a lot of things to believe at once. >>34356 nah he's fuarrrked. On the other hand probably not a lot will happen. I intend to smoke a joint and read a book far from any source of news on election day.

>>34367 >and very little to believe Like what you are saying?

>>34377 Well of course, everything should be disbelieved, even true things. Nothing is really as it seems after all. As a wise man once said, "What the fuarrrk are you doing here? Get out of my house!"

>>34350 >And look how well the government is solving that problem! Oh wait. Only a Democrat government can solve the problem. That's the whole point. >because none of the reasons people were rioting have been resolved. Which is what exactly? The half a dozen black criminals killed by police? The families got millions from media interviews and donations. And the men are all basically saints now. I bet you can name more BLM martyrs than black intellectuals. >If you think the people on the streets are literally getting a paycheck from the Democratic party... that's just fuarrrking dumb. Nobody said they are paid. The media lie and spin the police incidents to make people angry and then give all the "peaceful protest" coverage when those same people end up rioting. Meanwhile Democrat politicians sit back and let it happen, preventing the president from intervening. Once the "correct" candidate wins the election, the media and Democrats will stop colluding and the riots will die out like a fire without oxygen. If the "wrong" candidate wins then media and Democrats will fan the riot flames even more.

>>34396 >Only a Democrat government can solve the problem. That's the whole point. Many people involved with BLM have already said they will not stop or be satisfied if Biden is elected. Biden's "plan" for addressing it is to increase funding for police. The republican party is already saying "this is what Biden's America will be like" and they're not wrong, because this is what America is like. It's a soykafty country where the people hate their lives so much they mindlessly destroy. >Which is what exactly? excessive, corrupt, and unfair policing, lack of decent jobs and decent education, redlining, "urban renewal" that displaces people, corrupt and underfunded and mismanaged public housing... the list goes on and on. The martyrs are the spark, but they are not the reason people go out there and smash soykaf. >I bet you can name more BLM martyrs than black intellectuals. unlikely. > Once the "correct" candidate wins the election, the media and Democrats will stop colluding and the riots will die out like a fire without oxygen. There were plenty of these same kinds of riots under Obama. The democrats are fuarrrking idiots if they think this is fuelled purely by media frenzy. They're playing with fire and they're going to get burned.