Capital Hill Autonomous Zone

Surprised this isn't being talked about considering how many anarchists/anti-establishment people frequent here. I myself, haven't had time to stop by and check it out in person myself, but I'm interested in talking to people who have experienced it in person. What do you think about it? Do you think it can develop into a successful model for a leaderless society? For sake of sanity, let's try to avoid parroting whatever the media or social media is saying about this and form our own opinions/beliefs on the matter.

>leaderless society >has warlord

>>27763 Do you have a source for this or are you just repeating what right-wing and neo-liberal media is saying? Some egomanic on twitter calling himself a warlord does not make him the warlord.

>>27762 I dislike this "autonomous zone" because it was spurred by idiots who are trying to make an ex-con/porn star/drug addict and a COVID19 positive thug as a saint. Not to mention fools who are giving public talks on how we should eliminate whiteness and whatnot. I hope the coppers give them a good beating. >>27764 If I go out on the street and keep shouting that this is my street it doesn't make it mine.

>>27765 Anon is right, the place is comdemned to be a whorehouse/junkies pit, nobody is actually building something useful there besides weed and raves, this whole blm/"anarchy" of todat is pure bullshit, is practically the feminism of 2 years ago who cried that everything was offensive, but with nigger violence and it only will make life worse for those blacks who are actually good human being

>>27762 The problem is that the whole thing is completely overwelmed by SJW/Race/etc dynamics that are rife across all American politics. I get that they are going for a French ZAD-like occupation in the area, but it just doesn't work in an American context. American activism and radicalism is so overwhelmed with identity politics that it can't even do basic things that other radical movement elsewhere in the world can achieve any day of the week. Fix your internal issues with identity and create a semi-coherent united front and then try to do fancy maneuvers. The energy from something like this is drained instantly if people engaging with it aren't all on the same page as to what the fuarrrk they are doing.

>>27763 >>27765 >>27768 >>27769 most of you just confirmed that you haven't seen a single first hand account >>27762 most of lainchan is a drop of anarchists and the rest is cryptofash/neolibs

I'm skeptical of it, precisely because of this: >>27769 >>27771 >most of you just confirmed that you haven't seen a single first hand account Post those first-hand accounts then.

>>27771 I went to the one that is currently ongoing at the University of Chicago, I have much more hope for it than the one in Seattle. You are correct though, I am not in Washington.

>>27769 >American activism and radicalism is so overwhelmed with identity politics that it can't even do basic things that other radical movement elsewhere in the world can achieve any day of the week. absolutely true. The instant the CHAZ came into existence, "activist" circles on twitter exploded trying to claim it for this or that tendency or race or whatever. Single-issue activism is the way of the American left and it's a soykafshow. Look up the Spanish civil war and how much they backstabbed each other even in the face of a fascist invading force -- that's exactly what American lefties would do in that situation. Except they'd be posting on twitter about it. Something good might come of the CHAZ. I doubt it though, the vultures are already circling. Most likely it will end up being one of those things that academics reminisce about in forty years as if it's some kind of great last stand. I don't pay attention to any news about the CHAZ because I firmly believe that nobody really knows what's going on and news will always try to spin it. My parents believe some idiotic bullshit about it.

>>27776 cont. >My parents believe some idiotic bullshit about it. and I've seen some people on twitter making grandiose claims. Everyone is ideology poisoned. Anarchy does not have an ideology.

>>27768 Do you even notice how in the same post you can claim that these protests are unnecessary bullshit and right then after go on to complain about the niggers... My opinion on the CHAZ is that it's an exciting experiment and where it will lead to will be interesting to see. Sure such an experiment will have to rediscover and face all the usual troubles of power and organization, with a new perspective, new tools, new ideas. If it all falls apart and in 40 years academics will still be talking about it it will have been the most important event of this year for sure. When the hippies made their communes many of them fell apart in nasty ways, and many of those hippies went on to greatly influence global society and those kind of experiments are still being made all over the world with lessons learned from the pioneers. I think some respect is due, CHAZ is under military threat from the federal government and with all this pressure they will have to figure out what it means to be autonomous, how to prevent corruption... All these things we theorize about now can be tested. You can't argue against testing by saying that it might fail horribly! Mobilization of a community to talk, interact, do things. This is what drives history forwards and is the opposite of the apathy that is both complained against here and perpetuated in the asinine picking apart of every action and highlighting only the bad to suggest that nothing is ever worth doing. This is not about you or me, this is about the people of Seattle and we can stay on the sidelines and not do anything even if we were to recognize that this is more important than anything that we do. Is our ego really that fragile that if we were for a moment stop spinning everything as bad we would collapse in some kind of existential crisis? Here on our screens we can spin anything we perceive any way we want, so what conclusions we draw is always our responsibility, it is always virtual and never real! Understand that if you hate everything that you see on your screen that hate comes from you by choice.

>>27762 It's masonic street theater supported by the govt. If people did this for real they'd probably get gunned down or at least thrown in prison. nwo wants it's slaves ("citizens") obedient. they fake wars so of course this is fake. https://www.bitchute.com/video/MAhnDM3crW4/

>>27762 I haven't been following it too closely but I think it's alright. A lot of the people involved seem kinda silly, lots of Tumblr-tier identity politics. But anything that moves the Overton window away from the establishment should be celebrated imo. Perfect is the enemy of good, if nothing else it might help inspire a better version in the future.

The mayor gave them entry. Its for this reason alone in no form some success of anti-establishment. They are gov-sanctioned in essence. What I'm missing is what is it going to be used for.

It reminds me of the occupy wall street protests. Much like occupy wall street, I expect nothing whatsoever will come of it since it's just a bunch of unemployed potheads whining about how hard their lives are without any coherent demands, plan or message. Could be wrong.

>>27771 Please elaborate instead of brewing soykaf.

The chances are slim for them to succeed, the best outcome is for them to become something like Christiania in Copenhagen. >>27786 I'm not sure, since the zone isn't just a protest against something ("wall street greed"). >>27769 You're probably right, but it's often been said that these dynamics are the result of a dead left, incapable of doing anything in the real world. A prospect of real-world achievements might revitalize a non-toxic alternative -- or it's failure could just reinforce it. >>27780 Any post linking to bitchute immediately destroys it's own credibility.

うるせえんだよ ゴミ共が

>>27780 No doubt about this. There is no way the man would allow this if it werent for its benefit. Now the way i see it they aim to hit 3 birds with one stone. They will herd the antifa into that place and cause some sort of disaster, either a epidemic or unrest, then they will blame it on the antifa. First they get another chance to discredit anarchism and enforce public opinion that the state needs to run peoples lifes. Second they get not only to silence people who possible know what really went on inside those riots and get rid of a dissident group. And last but not least if provides a distraction from soykaf like http://stateofthenation.co/?p=16789 If you anyone thinks those vaccines are what they seem they are idiots, they want to genetically modify people as explained in https://www.bitchute.com/video/mh4QsVo6ilYP/ >>27793 >Any post linking to bitchute immediately destroys it's own credibility. Oh so should we only trust youtube, facebook and twitter? You dont have to like or believe any but goddamn if you think the mainstream is telling the truth and anything else is a lie fuarrrk off. Its a messed up state of afairs, i dont particularly care about antifa but they are steered to fail and discredit anarchism. I hope they come out this fine and a finally have a working government free zone but i cant see this happening there.

>>27795 These people are organised, the government has no choice, if they go in and slaughter these people they will face even worse backlash, they don't want to disturb the bees nest. I do agree though with this >I hope they come out this fine and a finally have a working government free zone but i cant see this happening there. It's a cool experiment which is sadly currently clouded by endless fake stories to discredit it. So do you think cancer treatment is also a way to 'genetically modify people'? Just because it is mainstream doesn't mean it is immediately disingenuine. Of course mainstream media is garbage, but it doesn't mean you are forced to go in the complete opposite direction and create this own fictional world inside your own head. Don't we still have a containment thread for this? A lot of people won't take you seriously at all If you spout this in not-entirely-relavent topics, not that bitchute is not credible, but the information is just garbage. Do you know how genetic modification works? I highly doubt it, and I hardly doubt credible biologists are spending their time on bitchute, or Facebook or twitter for that matter. The top comment on your bitchute link is talking about how Bill Gates is... actually a woman. I am not making a guilty by association claim here, but these are the people that believe in your niche ideas, does that not tell you ANYTHING about these beliefs? >Gov't, MSM, Hollyweird, Royalty, Sports, music industry....transgenders....anyone and anyone of influence/money, like Bill Gates. The world is saturated with them. Brad Pitt, a girl. Jennifer ANiston...a boy. .... Angelina Jolie, boy, Beyonce...boy, Celine Dion, boy, JayLo, a boy, Donald Trump, girl, Melania, boy, Michele Obama...boy, .... even Mrs. Cleaver from leave it to beaver, Barbara Bilingsly...a boy, and on and on and on.... This club goes back further than Roman times. The inverted world, inverted people; all rebellion against Prime Creator. Why all this push to transgender people, confuse the children. It is easier for demons to possess you when you mess with your sex. Transhumanism. Does this sound like the work of rational, intelligent individuals interested in finding the facts out about biology?

>>27796 >The top comment is bad therefore the video is bad this just opens an obvious attack vector. Dont like it? Post about snakemen under it. Its garbage now.

>>27796 >your argument is disingenuine You should actually watch the video then post criticisms about what is being said in the video & not rant about the comment section https://www.bitchute.com/video/mh4QsVo6ilYP/ The video is talking about the lack of oversight in the involuntary vaccination through mosquitoes experiment, this experiment failed as the subjects got infected by the disease that the modified mosquitoes were designed to prevent.This type of experimentation with nature is dangerous because if the mosquitoes escaped the lab or if this technology is weaponized, there is no ethical stop on these people & nobody stops them as the people responsible for stopping them (government) don't care or are extremely corrupt what this guy >>27795 is saying about "to genetically modify people" I think he was referring to MRNA vaccinations: https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline/therapeutic-areas/mrna-therapeutic-areas-infectious-diseases This is the experimental soykaf that is being rushed into the market and I am no antivaxxer but the people pushing this (gates/moderna/bioport... etc) have a bad track record for pushing bad products into the market & causing harm

>>27797 Come on it's not bad, it is braindead retarded, along with everyone else. Obviously many factual videos on YouTube have cringey comments, nothing to this scale however, you are muddying the water with this analogy. You are free to look through all the comments to see the general rationality of these people. >>27801 Are you not going to address that your fellow vaccine conspirators are all retards? That is certainly relevant. You can't just dismiss what you don't like as a 'rant'. I'm not a biologist and I'm certainly not going to be educated by some rando on bitchute about vaccines and mosquitos. Yes you can weaponise mosquitos that carry certain chemicals, you know what you can also weaponise? fuarrrking mosquitos full stop, they kill millions. But the people here are crying about "oh no the mosquitos dying will harm the delicate ecosystem!!!" as if this isn't part of what is being consider by these researchers. And the thing is I don't have a problem with 'regular' people analysing scientific studies, the problem however is when charlatans twist it into a narrative. The video could be excellent, but if every idiot who views it interprets it in a way that leads to a conspiracy involving Bill Gates being a woman then the video ISN'T very good since it hasn't increased knowledge or awareness, it has muddied the water of scientific discourse by pandering to people who want to write their own little fantasy about what is happening in the real world. >no no you can't criticise people... you must watch my bitchute video and debunk it word for word... There have been many big fuarrrk ups with regards to vaccines in the past. It is legally EXTREMELY difficult to get a vaccine out there, to get any drug out there is difficult, and needs to be extensively tested. This isn't just bill gates selling you soykafty windows 8. Your theory also maintains that the governments don't care if a mosquito was let loose that could kill humans. Do you know how stupid this is? The 'government' is just as susceptible to mosquitos flying around as anyone, this would kill without discrimination, why would they ever be lax about this? Even if they could all buy amazing underground bunkers to protect themselves, then the mosquitos kill all the workers, guess what: then these rulers won't have any money! Let me guess, next the mosquitos will contain special DNA that doesn't hurt anyone who's jewish, right? It is not in their interests at all for biological warfare on this scale. Mistakes can occur with experimentation but if you think this is some sort of conspiracy to ''''modify your genetics'''' (everyone who reads this is laughing at you, never say that soykaf again dude) then you are deeply mistaken.

>>27771 >single first hand account There are many

>>27804 to be honest that isn't that bad just some people arguing, considering literal buildings being burned, a few people arguing about a street preacher telling people their going to hell is ok or not is pretty tame

>>27804

>>27805

>>27806 >>27804 >the one guy causes problems and holds a speaker hostage, he isn't getting choked out or shot just being held and talked to calmly that this isn't appropriate, > video name is "I can't breathe" street preacher comes starts trouble, he doesn't even get hurt and using that to say how """chaotic everything is""" Considering how the police have been acting if they were on the scene

>>27795 >Oh so should we only trust youtube, facebook and twitter? Well, at least those platforms have more or less normal people using it, while bitchute is a safe-space for conspiracy theorists and white nationalists. >>27804 Is this just an american thing, or why do all US protests devolve into kindergarden-tier fights?

>>27802 >Obviously many factual videos on YouTube have cringey comments, nothing to this scale however, History documentations on youtube have almost always some "accept jesus, this is a trick of the devil" comments. Most of the retarded spam just doesn't register anymore as abnormal since you got used to it. Some have the extra special kind. Like "the war was just started to secure the secret alien tech in ancient ruins located there" " i heard they captured a real giant in iraq from my mil buddy". Youtube can be as crazy as you wish it to be.

>>27806 >chaz farms 2.webm What is that person doing? They seem to be mentally ill, why isn't anyone stopping him from fuarrrking up their garden? >>27808 hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

>>27810 >while bitchute is a safe-space for conspiracy theorists and white nationalists Only because Youtube derezzed those people for having 'undesirable views'. Anyone who still uses Youtube and thinks they're on a platform of free speech, is asleep. >>27808 This is one of the ANTIFA agents. >"We want you to give us everything" He said with his sweet, silky voice. >"Because if you can't give us your money, how do you expect to give us your material, lands" I'm surprised he didn't demand the white women to get on their knees and beg for forgiveness.

>>27763 >leaderless society >has warlord Because anarchy is a myth. There will always be a dominance hierarchy And when you strip out police and justice and rule of law, then violence is king. >>27778 >My opinion on the CHAZ is that it's an exciting experiment and where it will lead to will be interesting to see. Unfortunately it's not much of an experiment. At best they will just relearn what humans have known for thousands for years about civilization building. At worst they will learn nothing and keep claiming it wasn't "real" anarchy/communism. >You can't argue against testing by saying that it might fail horribly! You absolutely can if the scale of the experiment is too big e.g. the USSR "experiment" killed fuarrrking millions of people. But you're right in this case because it's just a small part of a city nobody cares about and people are not getting shot for trying to leave yet.

Why does Trump care about this at all. Bro they ain't been here a week and it's falling apart. Funniest soykaf since HWNDU

>>27811 No I don't see this because I am not watching conspiracy videos made by conmen. I've explained in detail about how this conspiracy is peak stupidity, you can either respond to that or you can focus on how >YouTube has weirdos too... >>27813 White nationalists? Believers in the genetic modifying mosquitos? Anti vaxxers? These things aren't damaging to society at all, what an outrage! How dare YouTube take away my freedums! >zero responses as to why they would create mosquitos to change peoples' 'genetics' even though you can't fuarrrking control mosquitos Wow it's almost as if it's a completely false claim that has no foundation in the real world. Now I do wonder why it's on bitchute hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>27821 >history documentaries >conspiracies the fuarrrk?

What's this?

>>27822 Ancient aliens doesn't count. I look up some ww2 documentaries and it's just people making jokes and soykaf, where one of the highest rated posts on this specific video used to inform people is talking about a grand conspiracy where bill gates is a woman. Clear disparity here

>>27821 You're missing the point. Youtube has double standards, yet claims to be a platform of free speech. I'll explain it by using your examples. >White nationalists? Yet anti-white tendencies are rarely derezzed, if ever. >Believers in the genetic modifying mosquitos? >Anti vaxxers? So? Let them. >These things aren't damaging to society at all, what an outrage! I can think of a dozen things that are being broadcasted and praised that are equally damaging to society. The problem would solve itself IF youtube was a free platform, but it's completely controlled by 'them' Also, I suggset you refrain from overusing your mock ('Freedumz' 'hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm') since it makes you look too desperate.

>>27826 So you choose to take one serious but disregard the other when they are on the same level.

>>27827 Where does YouTube claim to be a safe space for you freedom of speech fundamentalists? Feel free to point me to the whole host of YouTube channels hosted by black nationalists who wish to ethnically cleanse white people. >oh no black people can't laugh at how white people wear socks and sandals no... this is literally white nationalist level soykaf here. >so? Anti vaxxers kill people directly by not getting vaccinated, that's how illness works. The mosquito thing is less important I agree, but in general conspiracies are a waste of time. You may not care but I would like to see everyone be as intelligent as possible, this cannot occur if you travel down a rabbit hole so deep you believe the world is flat. After you allow that, no one will ever be able to prove anything to you that is mainstream. People are so well aware that bitchute is some garbage website full of detestables that it was even stated in the original post with a full on defence, implying they regularly get shut down because their information comes from such a place of degeneracy or false information. So yeah I am allowed to poke fun at those who think YouTube is a demonic force for evil because it won't allow morons to convince other morons to buy their books about how bill gates has a vagina. Who are 'them'? >>27829 We've established they are not the same. One is harmless jokes, one is serious disinformation that kills people (vaccines). Keep feeding money to these bitchute charlatans, everyone else will just get on with their lives while you die at 50 because you spent your 20s worrying they will unleash the genetic-modifying mosquitos on the public. And no I don't take YouTube seriously either, my main source of information isn't 10 minute videos on whatever streaming platform you prefer.

>>27762 >surprised this isn't being talked about Why? This only exists as a publicity stunt, any mental real estate you afford them is a loss.

I am enjoying the drama it has caused if nothing else.

>>27821 >>27822 >>27826 >>27827 >>27829 >>27831 Stop derailing, make a thread for youtube alternatives. Both bitchute and yt are soykaf the former only spies on you a bit less than the other. Don't use either

>>27831 Does Bill Gates have a Vagina? >>27836 Sorry, you are right ofcourse.

Back on the CHAZ topic, I think a big problem with it is that we haven't learned our lesson from Occupy. Maybe this is just a new cohort learning to fall in the same pit that we did back then and I am just too old now but from my POV this is just Occupy 2.0 Literally all the same beats are happening. Particularly annoying is the SJW soykaf dragging people into endless side meetings about things that are unrelated to what should be the current tactical or strategic outlook. You can debate reparations after you have a long-term established hub, to get to that point you have to actually act tactically with your occupation to make it more long lasting and sustainable. Second the way they are dealing with the media is the same as what happened at Occupy. The asymmetric headless style of organizing means that people doing the actual organizing or taking on leadership roles never want to be saying so outright. So what happens instead? The media look to whoever will talk to them, which is mostly the drunk bums or oogle hippie travelers. So the weird tales being spun by random idiots is what gets broadcast on national media outlets rather than a coherent narrative. I get that not engaging with the media is a good anarchist strategy, but at the same time that essentially means you give up the ability to write your own narrative at all. Lets face it the narrative that is being put forward in anarchist outlets isn't actually getting traction. The nonsensical gibberish being spouted by random idiots is becoming the mainstream narrative. The lesson to be learned is you really don't need a leader or whatever but you need to have a team delegated to be in charge of crafting press releases and making statements. Even the most horrible statement coming out of such a delegated team would be better than what the media is showing at present. You can even see that this argument is correct within this very thread. Half of the posters even here are spouting random nonsense that they saw on twitter because the CHAZ people didn't control their own narrative at a critical time.

>>27839 this 1000% While alot of them are good for in the moment small things controlling the narrative is their biggest failure. Not that the MSM helped any. But the biggest issue is lack of organized system, you can still have non-hierarchical systems and still be organized and functioning.

the CHAZ is a great example of how people will believe literally anything that anybody tells them if it supports their pre-existing beliefs. You could tell a leftie that there is a unicorn there and they'd believe you(after writing a long twitter thread about how denying the existence of unicorns is anti-black) and you could tell a fascist that the CHAZ is literally run by Al Quaeda and they'd believe you(after making sure to repeat the same bullshit story across as many websites as possible, especially lainchan).

Honestly didn't think Seattle could get cringier til I saw this. If you think any part of this isn't a pathetic juvenile LARP then you must be retarded as the people playing this children's game of anarchism. The army or even police could steamroll that place any time they wanted, they are letting the glitterboys play their game til they get tired of it.

>>27849 reading news the rights take is actually "see they are doing everything they shame us for, use force and make borders for their own segregated space"

>>27853 it's called hyperbole friendo.

>>27854 I find it more entertaining than your hyperbole which is why i posted about it. Gotta share the joy

>>27852 There is something stopping that force, oh wait it's called public opinion. It is almost as if the police can only use force when it is socially acceptable to do so, and when it isn't socially acceptable they are neutered puppies whining. So no, they can't do it anytime they want, they want to do it now.

>>27856 where was public opinion when demonstrations got beat with water throwers and heavy gear before? Nobody gives a soykaf. They literally got even a building opened up for them. So they got direct help and not resistance.

>>27857 wow, it's almost like public opinion changes over time!

>>27852 Police are becoming more hesitate public opinion isn't on their side, 54 percent support the burning of the percent[1], if they keep going as they have been, more people with become more supportive. Right now, the protests seem to be on the starting end of winding down, if they just stay away people will go back to normal, with no fundamental ( or more likely minimal) change happening. With boogaloo actors[2] (2nd civil war starters) and and the more militant side of antifa increasingly getting more organized I don't see this ending well. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/54-americans-think-burning-down-minneapolis-police-precinct-was-justified-after-george-floyds-1508452 [2]https://www.npr.org/2020/01/10/795366630/boogaloo-is-the-new-far-right-slang-for-civil-war >>27852

>>27773 >I went to the one that is currently ongoing at the University of Chicago What's it called? Do they have any info online?

>>27866 Here are some photos. I don't know if it has an official name yet, people were calling it 'The Chicago Commune' as a riff on the paris commune, but I don't think that they really came together and decided that was the name. If it lasts a few more days a presence online will probably start to form.

>>27867

>>27868 A couple more.

>>27869 >3rd image Kalyx sure looks different.

>>27876 Made me chuckle

>>27876 I wonder how kalyx is doing these days. Last I heard he was a vagabond and taking far too much LSD.

>>27876 Who's kalyx?

>>27867 >>27868 >>27869 The irony of this entire situation is that it's still capitalist but it is just chaotic with little to no organization at all and most of the people there live in squalor with the majority people living in tents, it's like a grand social experiment.

>>27815 These things matter a hell of a lot more than theoretical musings on the internet even if in those musings one never risks failure, no, EXACTLY because in those musings one never risks anything.

It is funny to see how hilariously bad it all is, like wiemar on steroids.

>>27864 Americans are delusional, I can't believe an entire nation of mentally ill children have been ruling the world for centuries. >I resisted arrest and the police shot me! Yeah maybe don't resist arrest, idiot.

>>27905 >supporting getting shot imagine being such a willing slave

>>27898 >like weimar on steroids yeah the Weimar era which is known for petty fights, shouting and twitter egos. sure, exactly the same. Grow the fuarrrk up, you aren't some political genius. Learn history and basic policy before spewing your opinions.

>>27905 what country are you from?

>>27906 uh. other anon. I am from eastern europe. Even our police doesn't generally shoot people (they loved using batons during the '80 tho, but hey! Communism, what can you do?). I suppose there might be something deeply wrong with US' society (and cops themselves) that makes them so trigger-happy. Also, I am curious. What the fuarrrk do your unions do? How could you escalate it to the point where cops can do whatever they want?

>>27914 >What the fuarrrk do your unions do? How could you escalate it to the point where cops can do whatever they want? Anon, unions in the US barely do anything these days, and few even want unions now. We have also always handled riots and protests that overstay their welcome this way. Though our police don't generally shoot the protestors, though we do tend to shoot them with rubber bullets if they refuse to break up and fight back.

>>27915 *labor unions barely do anything. trade unions/guilds are still fairly powerful at the local politics level (although I read that their membership has been dropping), and well... the police union is pretty powerful. actually a lot of public sector unions are because the government can't indiscriminately smash them like private companies have been able to get away with recently.

>>27916 That's probably because the police are the only people who actually need a union these days.

>>27914 a cop is much more likely to be shot and killed by a black in the US than the reverse

>>27916 Okay, they are powerful. But how come someone with charges (and police can get them) can continue the service? From what you say, it sorta looks like our situation with the church. Because it was very important during commie times, nowadays if priest got outed as paedo, he got a slap on the wrist and entire thing was silenced. >>27920 kek. This sorta sounds like cops are more afraid of the people they are supposed to be fighting with than the other way around.

>>27921 Wouldn't you be? They get almost no training and 1 wrong move in constant high risk situations causes a global chimpout.

here's a different perspective: Same soykaf happens in your own country. There are always some cops who get too trigger-happy or too easily scared and kill a suspect. Its just that media doesn't report about it. And if you wanna be specific US media doesnt report about asian or mexicans killed either. They just go beserk if its a black guy cause it must be obvious racism.

Cop apologism? Jeez, and you bozos calls yourselves cyberpunk? fuarrrk the police. They're just another gang.

>>27922 pathetic... I fully understand that I dont grasp the dynamics that happen here, and neither poster can give me full picture.

>>27924 >>27925 Feelings and personal politics have nothing to do with facts, police are human beings too. I don't like dealing with them because they are dangerous idiots, but there's real reasons why this is the case.

>>27931 >police are human beings too. sure, so do other gangsters.

>>27925 does that really surprise you? Browse /hum/ you will find little that is ether cyb or punk.

>>27942 was meant for >>27931

>>27763 Yep that's how anarchy works. It's also how civilization works, just the warlords are way older and the wars happen a bit further away. Which ain't nothin but all political power relies on the power of physical violence at the end of the day. And there will never be a time or place where there are humans without the effects of political power.

>>27931 Lol thanks Ben Shapiro. What exactly are the facts in this case and how are they relevant? I hate it when people try to sneak in their own opinions as being facts just because they say so.

>>27920 Citation needed >>27922 Maybe because the cops and their defenders think of people complaining about summary executions on the street as chimps. You know, eventually they'll just start killing you people right back. And you don't seem to have noticed yet just how many more of them there are than you. If you think you're gonna win that one, you're sadly mistaken.

>>27852 Lol you have way too much confidence in the physical power, support, and numbers of the authorities. The full might of our military failed to subdue fuarrrking Vietnamese peasant farmers. They are all hot air. You really don't wanna see how hard they'd get pounded if they had a domestic guerilla war. Not only would they not have the right tactics or force, they would have to navigate a constant PR quagmire, their personnel would constantly desert, and more and more of the general populace would reject and attack them as time goes on. They'd get buttfucked hard. The US isn't prepared for domestic insurgency at all. They're all show and no substance. Also you're calling them a larp and glitterboys but look at yourself--posting anime girls with Kalashnikovs or whatever. You're twice as embarrassing, at least they do things in the real world. You're too cowardly to so you hide in cyberspace and make fun of them from indoors.

>>27922 At least they get some training. And they are not the ones most at risk, they have the guns and the backup and an organized power structure supporting them. Maybe they should inform themselves about what being a cop is like and accept the risk instead of being giant constantly-panicking babies about it. They can choose not to be cops if they don't have the necessary constitution, corporeal courage, and nerve. I don't wanna hear them bitching anymore. If it's that scary, then turn in your badge and gun and go work somewhere else because it's not for you.

>>27880 Correct decision imo

>>27839 They've occupy'd this thing faster than Occupy. As soon as the media branded this the BLM protest it was over. Not that it had a chance anyway. There were organised and paid ANTIFA and undercover cops crawling over the whole thing from day 1 The truth is the real enemy is the media and yet they've been completely fine. As always. It disgusts me. >>27852 They shouldn't though because these people are already destroying themselves. This whole CHAZ thing is the funniest soykaf since Shia la Buffs flag

>>27928 They get trained to always assume worst and see every civilian as an enemy combatant instead of trying to defuse situations. Its a known issue that has been pointed out for years now.

>>27956 meant to reply to >>27952 Also forgot important detail: This has been pointed out by people involved in the training. So it wasnt just some complaining keyboard warriors.

>>27952 Newsflash, this is exactly what's happened. Quality people don't want to be police. So what's your argument now? Lmao.

>>27762 I don't live in the US myself but since my society has faced some forms of anarchy for some unidentified years, i can say hat the leaders that are popuar among a specific group of people whether religiously, politically and/or even scoially due to social media will always take the chance to rule among these sheep, thus the society won't be perfectly balanced, as a result, you'll notice an increasing hared between these leaders that can be seen in society outside of their heart physically due to the unorganised society, don't get me wrong, i do support anarchy and I do believe that the highest and the purest form of a state is a ststeless state, but it requires time, and a long-term plan in order to avoid the negative consequences.

>>27955 The media always get out unscathed, it pisses me off.

>>27949 The facts are in the context of the reply chain, fuarrrking read it you petulant child. This is such a slow board you're really going to act stupid and demand to be spoonfed just so you can act like an idiot? The FACTS as you no doubt monologue the worse with ridiculous intonation, is that cops are in danger, disproportionately so from blacks. Their behavior isn't arbitrary or simply racist, it's a learned response to their fuarrrking surroundings. Any statistic corroborates as much, you're far more likely to be killed as a policeman by a black than any other group, and you're far less likely to be killed by a policeman as a black than the reverse. All of this outrage is completely phony.

>>27961 I mean yeah, I agree with that completely. Quality people don't become police, and the few good ones fail to control the bad ones or reduce any of the problems. So there aren't any good ones in effect. So they should have their personnel cut severely. There just needs to be less of the bastards.

>>27966 Where are these facts? I don't see anything cited in here. Just a bunch of heresay and some graphs without sources. But get mad anyway lol, definitely makes you seem credible 🙄

>>27965 At the end of the day, the media is only various businesses fulfilling demand for their products and services.

This protest is starting to remind me of something....

>>27969 >fulfilling demand for their products and services. You mean Advert fodder? >>27956 This has been my biggest complaint with Law Enforcement for years. One key difference between the Military and Law Enforcement is soldiers are trained to kill then trained to not commit war crimes, and solve problems without having to kill if possible. Law Enforcement teaches that "any interaction can be deadly," and so increasingly huge sums of money are poured into making police the most efficient killing machines in their communities. In the United States there are special grants that local police can use to fulfill Homeland Security missions like responding to terrorist incidents and mass shootings/bombings. Instead of using these grants to help train and equip specialists or applying those towards crisis deescalation, the SWAT teams get a contract to train with mercenaries and a shiny new armored vehicle to roll up on jamals house because he had an ounce of weed. The bigger issue is not racism, but police acting as a pseudo militia without rules of engagement (they feared for their lives, so any means is fair game). Police militarization is the cause, the perceived "racism" is a symptom >Police do no knock raids/act like dicks etc. >Loose trust with the community >Instead of gaining trust they just get better equipment >Use better equipment to dominate the "threat" >Communities loose more trust in the Police >Bad apples join the police because easy jobs >Power trip because they can >Learn how to kill >Killing is easier than deescalating a situation, just make sure you say the magic words "I was afraid for my life" But really, Who TF was teaching neck kneeling as a valid method of detaining a suspect. There are a number of other valid maneuvers, but neck kneeling seems like one of those overexaggerated tactics used by third worlders with no discipline and maximum violence. I bet they use Viet Cong tactics to interrogate the suspects they do catch.

>>28035 >Who TF was teaching neck kneeling as a valid method of detaining a suspect Its been noted that police regularly get training by guys specialized for handling extremists. Those guys focus accordingly entirely on giving the target no chances. Bodyweight on neck sounds good when you rather have him dead than escaping and it has to be something simple you can teach even the dumbest guy in the two weeks training camp you have. As for why, far as i know the military sector simply rediscovered police as an untapped market to sell their second-hand goods cause there was nobody else they were legally allowed to sell their old toys to. The rest is just fallout from that.

>>28035 nailed it. Shame this whole this has been co-opted by entirely BLM/ANTIFA/MSM morons. All you gotta do is take away their military toys. At least that's step 1

>>28038 that the whole point of defund the police. take the huge piles of money they would use to gun down innocent people, and reinvest it into the community at large and deal with the issues that cause it in the first place.

>>28039 Seems like it's just subversion to privatise them.

>>28039 >innocent people Like george floyd?

>>28044 >latest was 2007 UH MAYZIN

>>28044 >He commited a crime 13 years ago, went to prison for it >using it as evidence to neurosuggest he deserved to die This is why the system doesn't work. What is the purpose of the justice system if a person who commited a crime, was judged and paid his debt to society by being his freedom taken for 5 years as punishment will still be stigmatized for what he did 13 years later?

>>28046 >>28047 the dude brutally beat and robbed a pregnant woman in her own home. He deserved to die. https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/houston-years-george-floyd-dj-screw/

>>28044 >neurosuggesting that cop killed him for whatever he did over 13 years ago >>28041 mind the edge

>>28049 >neurosuggesting that cop killed him for whatever he did over 13 years ago I did not and it does not matter. He made a good job anyways.

>>28048 And was judged guilty of it and went to prison. What's your point? A system that offers no opportunity for redemption is doomed to fail.

>>28052 >And was judged guilty of it and went to prison. What's your point? A system that offers no opportunity for redemption is doomed to fail. There's no redemption to a guy that '''brutally beats''' and robs a '''pregnant woman''' in her own home. This is called psychopathy. He should have been executed when he did this horrible thing.

>>28047 Pretty much this. If there's no plan to rehabilitate, then anything less than execution is just jerking around.

YES GUYS THEY MIGHT BE GETTING REDPILLED. THEY'RE SO CLOSE

>>28048 Doing something bad does not justify being killed over an entirely separate incident in an inhumane manner many years later. George Floyd's failings as a human being have literally nothing to do with the situation. Whats relevant is his death. People are protesting his death and the various other deaths that have occurred under similar circumstances. "He was no angel" has literally nothing to do with the argument at hand

>>28062 lmao the CHAZ people have never trusted corporations. If they did, they're way stupider than I thought they were. >>28054 If he deserved to die for that then he should have been executed for that. Nothing about that incident justifies what happened to him later.

>>28072 >lmao the CHAZ people have never trusted corporations. If they did, they're way stupider than I thought they were. It's ironic that they are still supporting capitalist businesses and the current liberal system when they claim to be against it.

>>28076 *Also, you should have expected them to be dumb after what they have attempted with the "garden" and how the entire "zone" has been run in the first place.

>>28076 how so? Or are you one of those people who expects a collective with no well-defined ideology, which controls a few blocks of territory, to set up a fully self-sustaining society in a few weeks?

>>28072 >lmao the CHAZ people have never trusted corporations I don't know about the CHAZ lot specifically but this entire thing has been the ultimate blackpill about how normal people are ultimately just corporate drones. Gushing over censorship because of a slogan (Black lives matter etc).

I was there before the police left. I think its' durkin realizing that the police only fuels people's dissatisfaction which was eventually going to result in the police station getting burned down. That would motivate more violence and result in the whole city getting trashed. I don't think CHAZ will last it will become like occupy but as long as the anarchists feel like they have a clubhouse she's essentially disarmed the protestors who will cause the monetary losses that would otherwise force her to come to the table. I don't want riots, looting and arson but I like the threat. We had the civil rights movement, the million man march, BLM 2015 and yet black people are killed every day. American workers are some of the most mistreated in the developed world. The GOP and corporate interests still have a stranglehold on public policy. We'll get the bare minimum that it takes to go back to normal and then SPD will announce that CHAZ is getting cleared out.

>>28037 You have no idea what you're talking about. The military doesn't train like this. It's just gullible cops who like sitting in "classes" where the instructor glorifies their job and makes them feel like soldiers.

>>28099 Don't have to believe me. Just look up who trains them. They have even training sessions on youtube listed. I dont remember the groups name but as said the guys who they got to train with were a special division. Its exactly because it was so ridiculous that regular police got trained by people meant to handle extremists that it got attention.

ōgi you are cute

>i-its about racism and police brutality

>>28127 wrong thread buddy >>26904

>>28039 In the polices defense, many US police departments value life so little that they calculate that having a cop die is more profitable than having him survive because legal fees. They would unironically get cops killed so they can payout a life insurance policy than risk a situation where they have to pay long term costs. This also contributes to a lot of disgruntled and on edge police who are more willing to act aggressive if it raises their chances of survival. This was told to me at Uni by a number of people who quit being police. Not that it makes it better, but it shows how the funds are put in the wrong place. Also some police can get free toys from daddy gubmint, and they see a free tank as better than a paid for van (not realizing that the reason the gubmint got rid of it was because upkeep costs were too high or it needed too many repairs).

>>28131 How can a department influence this? Avoid giving him body armor or what?

>>28102 https://www.academi.com/ (formerly blackwater) One of the most notable. >>28081 >Or are you one of those people who expects a collective with no well-defined ideology, This was ironically the whole point to begin with... They went in with "Revolution now - Solution later" which was hilariously naive. The fact that they have no well-defined ideology means that they are bound to collapse as they have no unified goals or reasons to even work together. The only reason they worked together was because of some meme sense of getting rid of the Seattle PD which have been useless ever since the Seattle Mayor and friends told them they can't enforce the law since it makes the government look bad and too oppressive, all the while crime has been on the rise and homeless drug addicts openly brag about assaulting people and robbing stores and how they are immune even when arrested sometimes more than 60 times only to be released as soon as they get to the police station. CHAZ probably had no problem seizing control of their zone... But just like the children that they are, they are going to find out how hard life is about to hit once people have to actually find a means to survive that does not include your $15 minimum wage working at starbucks. Also leld at the homeless people stealing all their food. At least the ones who survive starvation and the infighting will hopefully realize how futile the entire experiment was and they might actually come to their senses and learn a little about living outside their BLM/ANTIFA/SJW fairy-tale world.

>>28132 Certain use of force policy, giving out boy armor that only stops pistol rounds (because "plates look too militaristic"). And a number of other decisions made by the financial department who determines that killing a suspect or having a cop die is cheaper than arresting or having someone get wounded. Sometimes police will not hire former military just because they are likely to survive and or actually stop criminals (that would incur costs for the Police, easier to just let them die) the public reason they give is "they could have PTSD" or "they are too violent and are killers". Cops are underpaid, overworked, and given almost no training on communication, so killing someone to make it back to their families at the end of the day seems reasonable- to them. Meanwhile, the military is opposite, they are given free healthcare, free housing, free food, and training in communication, because it is more costly on the global scale to make a bad decision and kill someone without good reason (international incident). The military gets weeks of use of force training and instruction on rules of engagement. A good example of how this plays out in law enforcement is how former veterans will often try deescalating a situation by assessing all of the factors, including determining if the suspect is a threat (some just want suicide by police). In one notable instance, an officer was trying to talk down a depresses man who wanted to be shot by police, and after 10 minutes of talking, several other police arrived on scene, saw the man had a gun and unloaded on him. The first officer was fired because "the suspect had a gun and he did not shoot" despite the fact that he was not trying to use it and was obviously trying to get the cops to kill him and he had the situation under control and could have shot if his live was actually in danger.

>>28133 >The fact that they have no well-defined ideology means that they are bound to collapse as they have no unified goals or reasons to even work together. Having no unified goals implies no constraint on methods. If you aren't trying to build anything, then you never have to worry about the means corrupting the ends; there's nothing to corrupt. That's how reactionary groups and terrorists can justify attacks on personal freedom, murder, intimidation, and mob violence. Dumb people think anarchy means "no rules" when it literally means "no rulers".

Chaz is over. https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/protests/seattle-police-capitol-hill-chop-chaz/281-6253a20a-127b-4cd7-93dd-43f3f008afd0 It was one hell of a run, but police have broken down the barricades, arrested dozens, and have retaken the zone. How do you guys feel about how it went and ended?

>>28651 sad excuse for an anarchist insurrection

>>28651 >How do you guys feel about how it went and ended? Typical Marxist mistake of overthrowing (well, trying) the status quo without having an improved system to replace it. Marx figured that if he could rid the world of capitalism, an ideal form of communism would form naturally in its place, which of course it didn't. This wasn't so different. Naturally, given their list of completely impossible "non-negotiable" demands, their demise was inevitable at some point. There's so much they could have done better, but that said, I'm impressed it lasted this long. I hope it will inspire better-organized insurrections in the future.

>>28653 >I'm impressed it lasted this long. The mayor is a pinko and initially supported them, even proposing that the zone would create a "summer of love", but then the looting, rapes, and shootings happened and the mayors hand was forced to finally crack down on it. Had the mayor not been a pink blooded American, it probably wouldn't have lasted more than a week or two.

>>28651 >In a Blotter post, SPD said there were 65 reported offenses inside the CHOP between June 8-30, 2020. Police said the offenses include aggravated assault, larceny-theft, rape, and two homicides. There were a total of 37 offenses during that time in the same area in 2019, according to SPD. So besides being the murder capital there was also rape and aggravated assault going on? I think that it ended too soon, I wanted to see at least a couple of more homicide cases, I hope at least that people who got arrested will get a lengthy sentence.

>>27806 lmaoing at the retarded christpreecher

>>28666 hi satan >>27804 idk about you guys, but i honestly love how streets look on those videos

>>28655 you really believe cops?

>>28669 Could you disprove the claims?

>>28670 no, but just because the cops say something is true doesn't mean it's true.

>>28669 The trans dude who ended up locking his twitter account and who wanted to give CHOP/CHAZ to the natives was exposed by his trans boyfriend that he's a physically abusive asshole and the what's-his-name-again black dude who was arming people was essentially responsible for the death of the first person because his goons didn't let the cops in to secure the area for the medics. I wouldn't be surprised if other lowlifes were doing even dumber things which never got recorded. But you know, something about Feorge Gloyd, give me $10 and lick my shoes.

>>28672 oh, I wouldn't be surprised if those were true. I'm just saying "the cops said x" is not a very good reason to believe x. Considering how cops commit perjury regularly.

>>28673 Yeah, I don't believe x just because the cops said so, the way CHAZ/CHOP people decided to conduct themselves also plays a role.

>>27852 >smoke coming out of the barrel >unfired cartridge being ejected >other cartridge falling from...somewhere hmmmm

>>27869 >selling fruit for USD through a wireless credit card reader going through the banking system wow much independent very autonomy

>>28048 He deserved whatever his sentence was, unless you oppose rule of law and support mob justice, which you don't because you're a bootlicker.

>>27883 >C'mon now... I used to have a cap from 4/g/ where he said Lainchan was a mistake... oh well, still mad about that one time he fuarrrked the site >>27821 >>27827 [spoiler]Mosquito gen modding has been proposed to stop mosquito from reproducing as an alternative to DDT. If one assumes that some diabolical organization wanted to use a viral delivery method for gene modification, one could conceive the conspiracy that mosquito could be a vector (OMG ITS MALARIA THAT GIVES YOU THE GAY). Someone should make that youtube video to be honest[/spoiler] >>27816 I think that CHAZ just goes to show that people can self form into communities with limited government pushback because it can become political plutonium that is too dangerous for anyone to get near without risking severe social judgement. People at my work have become enemies because of their differing views on it. Seattle has historically had a large punk/anarchist/anti-establishment movement, but usually they just kept to themselves. Now that CHAZ supposedly has a "Social Justice" connotation, it is a pivot point for those who either support "the BLM/SJW movement & getting rid of the police and & CHAZ" or those who think that "CHAZ is bad" and by affiliation the SJW/BLM movement and police disbandment (or whatever the fuarrrk they want this week). Any one person who tries to shut it down will be seen as similar to the feds at WACO, if it falls apart by itself, it is just another example of how "not real" communism has failed again. >>28651 oh...

It's stupid so many people especially rightoids are trying to make CHOP out to be anarchist. It's really right wing libertarianism meets liberal progressive identity politics.

>>28727 >It's really right wing libertarianism meets liberal progressive identity politics. How so? That statement doesn't make much sense since the majority of the people that went to CHAZ were left leaning and believed in progressive beliefs that at times could border on anarchist when you saw people who wanted to totally abolish the police. Though, their demands could have been anything since there was no organization at all, the entire thing was chaotic, and it ended in total disaster, even proving how their demands were absurd and weren't based in reality.

>>28735 There are capitalist businesses running in the area still and still getting paying customers and some of these businesses are playing along with it taking part in protests. Then there is stuff like >>27808 where there is a clear sign of desire for race based reparations in form of redistribution of wealth to POC which by no means is a socialist policy. They are placing identity over class and not even mentioning class. They also don't have a uniform goal in what to do about police forces.

>>28689 >bootlicker That's funny, take a look at this. https://invidio.us/watch?v=FiP_FPl5WJg https://invidio.us/watch?v=PEoobJEi73E

>formed because police brutality killed a black dude >ended because they killed 2 black dudes I dont know what they expected, not a single community in history survived long enough without defined roles and rules, and a force to defend those rules (AKA police, military) that everybody follows, sure there can be a leftist liberal community, but it should be structured first For fuarrrk sakes they couldnt even make a plant grow because assholes keep pissing/soykafting them Hippies make this work years ago in communities far away from the cities, why not join them instead of doing this childish bullshit

>>28737 But Anon, in socialist theory, private property and business would be allowed but not with anywhere near the power that they would have today, they would exist to provide some services and products to the workers. Segregation and racial policies can also exist on both sides of the scale, many leftist and anti-capitalist leaders like Bakunin and Malcom X believed in segregation and reparations, or had many racial beliefs that many by today's standards would call racist.

>>28751 The hippies from back then usually didn't know what they wanted back then and they got very little done at all. I wonder what they are up to now that they are all old and most of them are dead or at deaths door.

>Everyone is ideology poisoned. Probably not. My guess is that many a person is ideologically poisoned. A person who thinks that everybody is ideologically poisoned, is probably ideologically poisoned; my guess is that the ideological poison in such a case is that of inferring that a relation is true for each possible thing, from that relation being true about each thing about which that relation was evaluated. I don't know whether you are so ideologically poisoned. Perhaps you meant to say that many a person is ideologically poisoned, or that many a person is probably ideologically poisoned. >Anarchy does not have an ideology. Anarchy has an ideology. There is one principle: nonagression. All else is from that one principle. One might consider the following thoughts about the idea that some persons of Free Capitol Hill have a goal of creating a neighborhood without police: >Often, ``police'' is used to mean government policy enforcement organization. Often, a government policy enforcement organization has a (regional) monopoly or oligopoly of violence (of some type). Some such violence-oligopolists try to eschew aggression (initiatory violence), but mistake an excessively-violent response against a violent act as nonaggressive. (To be nonaggressive, it must be minimally violent.) Whether or not the person is a violence-oligopolist, if he's aggressive, I'm against him. If he's a violence-oligopolist, it's easier for him to be aggressive than if he were not a violence-oligopolist; I'd be wary of a violence-oligopolist that eschews aggression. There being, for each legitimate service that police would provide, many freely competing companies offering that service, would be better than there being only a few violence-oligopolists offering those services. There not being, for each legitimate service that police would provide, anyone offering that service, would be worse than there being only a few violence-oligopolists offering those services.

>>28765 >Anarchy has an ideology. There is one principle: nonagression. All else is from that one principle. I'm not too sure about that one.

>>28754 You're confusing property types. Private business is just another way of saying capitalist business because it is the private property of the owner. Capitalist businesses are still running and doing business in CHOP. CHOP is Right Libertarianism meets woke culture identity politics. That's why it's such a mess.

>>28840 I figured we would have to wait a year or so before the "not real communism" started. I was wrong.

>>28840 Is? You mean was?

pls stop blaming this on anarchists I bet there where like 10 there and they all left

>>28653 read marx

>>28850 It never was communist or anarchist. Capitalism isn't communism or anarchism. Its just a bunch of idpol. Nothing about the economy and they gave no coherently constant solution to police. There is just a bunch if different ideas running around. There are barely any communists, and anarchists in the entire country these days let alone Capital Hill. They didn't even get rid of police just replaced them. Raz Simone and crew acting as the private police force of CHOP. Private police is what right libertarians want.

>>28127 Im sure that anti fascist won't paint fascist symbols on statues. But it is just my opinion

>>28887 >pls stop blaming this on anarchists I bet there where like 10 there and they all left How would "real" anarchy be different then? >>28893 >They didn't even get rid of police just replaced them. Raz Simone and crew acting as the private police force of CHOP. Private police is what right libertarians want. I'm sure nobody in CHAZ wanted private police. That's just what happens when you throw away democracy and rule of law: the biggest thugs take control.

>>28944 Raz wasn't even there at the end. It was some other dumbass. But Raz wasn't the one to shoot those kids AFAIK.

>>28755 A lot of the communes in the back to the land era that persisted were religious cults.

>>28949 FWIW, a lot of the most persistent communes are either just hippies chillin' or LSD production labs (or both)

>>28944 Not him but I think any form of social movement goes against the idea of anarchism.

>>28944 >How would "real" anarchy be different then? Please don't use the vernacular definition of anarchy to reason about the actual political movement. Historical examples of successful anarchists communes are very easy to look up. The Spanish Civil War provides several. >>28951 >I think any form of social movement goes against the idea of anarchism. That seems very silly. Anarchism is about how to organize society and anarchists want to move towards anarchism. How can anarchism not be a social movement? >>28944 >I'm sure nobody in CHAZ wanted private police. That's just what happens when you throw away democracy and rule of law: the biggest thugs take control. More or less. I assume some people wanted to LARP as a militia without any rules.

>>28952 > Anarchism is about how to organize society Anarchism is everyone does whatever he wants to. Its centered around a lack of organization . All these social movements seek to convert other people into their own behaviour.

>>28961 Anarchism comes from a Greek word literally meaning lack of rulers, not lack of rules. Anarchists try to replace rulers with self-enforcing rules. For example, anarcho capitalists and agorists think society can organized by markets without rulers.

>>28981 What are self-enforcing rules supposed to be? Force needs to come from somewhere. Every manmade law is enforced by people.

>>28952 >Please don't use the vernacular definition of anarchy to reason about the actual political movement. I'm not reasoning anything. I asked what a "real" anarchist thinks CHAZ would have looked like if they followed "real" anarchy because I thought I might learn something. >just google it I regret giving the benefit of the doubt now. I'll revert to my original opinion: anarchy is dumb and indefensible.

>>28985 When you shoot everybody that breaks into your house at 3AM, pretty soon nobody breaks into your house at 3AM. "self-enforcing" In contrast, the current system is that the person breaking in at 3AM is the police.

>>28993 That definition comes back to every man for himself since third parties are not allowed to rule over your conflict. These movements are however all third parties trying to influence how other people live.

why do people always want a short and snappy definition for such a broad social movement as anarchism? There are "every man for themself" anarchists and there are "all for one, one for all" anarchists. The term means no rulers, or more generally no state. That doesn't mean no leaders and it doesn't mean nobody enforces the rules. It means that there is no permanent formal hierarchy, influence is gained by being respected and lost when you lose respect. Certain cultural groups have maintained societies that could be considered "anarchist" for centuries, it isn't purely hypothetical. Look up the Pashtunwali and see how they have prevented so many empires from encroaching on their land. Oh, right, people who ask about this stuff don't want to know what anarchism is, they just want to dismiss it.

>>29004 Leaders are rulers.

>>29004 Anarchy is short for anti hierarchy. It's not "no ruler" it's no unnecessary hierarchy. What is considered unnecessary differs by anarchist thought and individuals.

>>28992 The Zapatistas are a type of anarchists or left libertarians. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/zapatistas-lecciones-de-auto-organizaci%C3%B3n-comunitaria-en/

>>29007 One very key aspect of anarchism is that it explicitly rejects this notion. A leader is someone who others follow voluntarily, a ruler is someone with some kind of official authority. A ruler can be a very poor leader or no leader at all, a leader might not ever be a ruler. >>29009 The word literally means "no ruler". The word ruler implies that there is a hierarchy(that of ruler and subjects), and the word hierarchy implies that there are rulers(whoever is on top of the hierarchy). The two are interchangeable.

>>29015 Yes and no. While all anarchists are against the government as a central body and against capitalism some minority have more extreme views that go beyond what anyone would normally call a ruler.

>>28995 >That definition comes back to every man for himself No, it's "ever man for himself and whoever he freely chooses to stand for, who also freely chooses to accept the help". Not quite as catchy, I know.

>>29015 I think in scope of government leaders cant avoid becoming rulers. Conflict of interests always arise giving incentive to use the willing followers to coerce the unwilling.

>>28952 >Please don't use the vernacular definition of anarchy to reason about the actual political movement. Historical examples of successful anarchists communes are very easy to look up. The Spanish Civil War provides several. Can you prove that any anarchist communes were successful? CNT-FAI attempted anarchism during the civil war, but it only resulted in them being bullied by the communists and eventually abandoning anarchism as the war came to a close, culminating with the leadership attacking one another and collapsing as the nationalists won, I don't see how you can call that successful. The other supposed anarchist communes that have been tried either existed during periods of civil war and unrest like in Turkey or Bulgaria or they are propped up and used as puppets by foreign powers, see Rojava and the SDF.

>>29088 The EZLN has remained independent for decades and the Mexican province of Oaxaca has been on-again off-again in an anarchist uprising. More importantly, as an anti-state ideology, anarchism persists even in the presence of states. No state has total control of its territory, in fact many of them have very weak control over most of it. It is also not the case that anarchists can only feel they "won" when someone espousing their ideology is in charge, what is important for an anarchist is anarchy, the lack of hierarchy. In that sense quite a lot of people live in varying levels of anarchy, and there are large groups of people who will defend their anarchist traditions over their state, even if they do not call it anarchism.

>>29089 Is the EZLN Anarchist? They claim to be anarchist, but they participate in the Mexican system by selecting candidates to try to elect in the system, they also have a system of hierarchy wherein they elect leaders to serve (albeit short) terms to lead the zones, though overall their territory been quiet in recent years, they likely only exist now because the Mexican government has bigger issues to deal with than some pseudo-anarchists in an insignificant region of Mexico. If the only thing that makes anarchism truly anarchist is the lack of hierarchy and state, then has there ever been an anarchist system? If there has been, it would only be a technicality in countries that were in a period of chaos and disarray.

>>29090 >They claim to be anarchist, but they participate in the Mexican system by selecting candidates to try to elect in the system there is nothing contradictory about that. They are interested in self-preservation, not political purity. >they also have a system of hierarchy wherein they elect leaders to serve (albeit short) terms to lead the zones many anarchists would consider this anarchist, supposing instant recall is possible. The EZLN certainly lacks many of the institutional characteristics of a nation-state. Most of the organizational apparatus exists only because they have to engage with outsiders and nation-states. >If there has been, it would only be a technicality in countries that were in a period of chaos and disarray. the concept of the modern nation-state is relatively new. It used to be that, over most of the world, most of the territory was not claimed by any state. Instead tribes coexisted with each other (and sometimes fought). Tribal governments are of a totally different character from nation-states, and many anarchists look to them for models of living with no significantly centralized authority. There are some anarchists who would not be satisfied with *anything* except for total individualism, but there are many more who would be satisfied with a decentralized form of government that does not create class divisions.

Fun while it lasted bois https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIsKMwQPxpo&t=942s

>>29101 >"White bodies in the front! Black bodies should not be in the front!" This might be the most hilariously retarded line I've ever heard in my life.

>>29101 >When you solve racism by implementing segregation

>>29109 It does sound funny but it's pretty clear the intent was to avoid saying "blacks go to the back" which is reminiscent of segregation days. >>29110 It's a naive attempt to protect those perceived as vulnerable in this case black people by using those perceived to be in power positions in this case white people. What she is missing is they are in the same boat. Police will fuarrrk you up no matter your race as long as you aren't rich. It's laughable due to it being misguided but if it weren't so filled with naivety on the situation it isn't a bad strategy. Instead they should have used rich celebrities as their human shields.

>>28985 is enforced by people yes but the rules are agreed upon not just put in place by the powerful

>>28961 read a book

>>29090 >they claim to be anarchist do they really tho? anarchists and commies like to claim EZLN is on their side but as far as I know they only claim to be zapatistas and thats it

>>29569 the EZLN engage a lot with western anarchists and communists, going so far as to invite them to Chiapas a few times. It also can't be denied that their rhetoric sounds quite a lot like anarchist rhetoric.

>>27931 >police are human beings too aw the authority figures that enforce a system of oppression are hurt aw the authority figures which have been implementing espionage, facial recognition(without the consent of the end user even) and consistently defend property aw lets cry about cops instead of the black people being gunned down constantly they deserve it more! after all, they have got to be so tired from infringing on our freedom

>>29568 Wow, what a great retort! You must've been the captain of your high school debating society, because you totally chakked his flak up with facts and logic lmao XD XD

>>32959 He doesn't deserve any more effort than what he got. The post is obvious bad faith.

>>32960 "bad faith" is just a cuter "its a witch, dont listen to her devil tongue". That aside old literature can't define modern use of language.

>>32963 it's also a way to point out that someone else is not trying to ascertain the truth, but rather trying to "win".

>>32965 again just accusation. You're not dealing with facts but opinions about the other parties bad character.

>>32970 Rather than go on the defensive and "muh witches", perhaps you should actually make a good faith argument. What the poster said (you, no doubt, given how feverishly you're going at this) was ass-backwards wrong, and comes from one of two things (1) genuine ignorance that the person should understand (again, bad faith since they failed to ascertain their own understanding before chiming in) or (2) deliberate misrepresentation (again, bad faith, since they're derailing the thread with outright lies). Either way, go fuarrrk yourself - nobody owes you fuarrrk all.

>>32972 fun fact for you: i merely wrote the last 2 posts with sage cause i didn't consider it worth front page. So it's already 2 vs1 and you're in the minority with your opinion.

>>32970 I'm stating what "bad faith" means, unless you think that's just my opinion maaan

>>32980 > 2 v 1 on a low volume chan > 2 v 1 on a lower volume thread not really compelling. > now 2 v 2 numbers of people does nothing to make your claims valid. neither mine, but I actually have knowledge while you have whimsical nothings.

>>33000 >me better than u ebin

>>33005 lol, the lain pointed out you're spouting ignorance. that has nothing to do with them being better than you. go educate yourself, then come back.

>>33005 you do know you made the whole >me better than you argument yourself. do you completely lack self-awareness, or is this just some trolling tactic?