My Jaded Life

This isn't an attention seeking thread. I'm hoping to learn from someone who relates to me and how he managed to feel a little better. If i can't achieve that, atleast i was able to externalize my worries so i can see them more clearly and vent a little. It's just random thoughts put together really. I don't think there is anything wrong with being "normal". I believe anything can be an improvement to my dry and monotonous way of living. I've been sheltered my entire life which is why i'm so inadept and incompetent. I'm not talking about social skills (i've always mimicked those to some extent and i i know how to get by i don't care about that). I'm talking about life skills in general. I have no idea how to cook, maintain my hygiene like routines and shaving, paying utilities, etc… Just the thought of losing my mother, my caretaker, one day makes me anxious and sad. I don't know how to act and think. I don't know how i feel like how do i know i'm feeling this or that at any moment ? Because of this lifestyle, i had also always been afraid of people. I think i projected how i felt about my parents when i was young into other humans. I never had any serious social contact so i'm afraid of doing anything they deem unacceptable. I'm afraid i will anger them. They will bare their fangs at me, punish and assault me. I don't care about the world, making it a better place or anything along those lines. I just want to be comfortable and satisfied in my own little cocoon. However i can't even accomplish that because i'm numb. I can't feel pleasure or enjoy anything and it hurts. I don't have any motivation or energy in me, hell i'm even surprised i wrote this much. A typical day for me involves browsing the internet and watching TV all day. It's just a mindless circle of downloading and deleting, installing and uninstalling usually the same things over and over, switching between tabs and channels every 10 secs hoping something happens and staring at a stale page. Never actively pursuing anything. I never really enjoyed media and i never finish anything i started. I have no inspirations or aspirations really, except some momentary infatuations. They are some shallow obsessions i get from time to time with some occupations like drawing or "computer stuff". I have no specefic skills to be honest so i feel helpless and lost. I then just make excuses like saying it's because my computer is trash or it's because my parents raised me wrong. I can't achieve any of my goals or get down to my personal projects. I just spend my day doing nothing. I want to better myself. This lifestyle had also affected my health. I sleep in my bed all day so i have these constant headaches and suffer from nausea. I feel like my bracrabls are melting and i know for a fact that my languages are degrading. What should i do to be a little more happy ? or atleast to not feel empty ? How can i fill this void in my heart ?

My recommendation would be to just stop watching TV and going on pointless internet sites. As I have found, if you do the above, the day just goes and you get nothing done. Then, all that is left is doing something, anything with the time you have. My void is currently being filled with writing a chip8 interpreter, a task that takes a while and it actually quite interesting. You need to find something interesting to do with your time and suddenly you will feel less empty.

>>26206 If you have the money for it, go see a therapist. Fixing this kind of problem is their job. It's good that you're able to articulate how you're dissatisfied with you life. Try picturing yourself in a better situation. What does that look like?

>>26206 Start small. Make a meal, something good. look at recipes if you don't know how. Go for walks. Get off that TV and you will find something that you enjoy

>>26206 >no idea how to >cook Learn to. >maintain hygiene >pay utilities Set reoccurring alarms on your phone (if you have a phone) - If no phone, make a document with a list of daily tasks, print out a stack of them, and check things off as your day progresses. Be verbose about it, too. >I want to better myself Write down everything about yourself that YOU don't like and want to change. Tackle them, one at a time. Prioritize them in a list of "easy" to "difficult" and do them in that order. Don't rush through it, either. These things take time. >How do I fill this void There will always be a little bit, but you can mitigate it via self improvement. I wrote some soykaf for you. 1. Take a shower 2. Brush your teeth 3. Clip your nails 4. Clean your room 5. Start a load of laundry. (Don't know how? It's time to learn - Ask your mom.) 6. Take all the garbage and put it in the garbage can. 7. Meditate. Yes. I am serious. Go sit in a quiet place with no distractions. Set a timer for 20 minutes. Sit still, stay quiet, and everytime a thought pops into your head: Try to stop having that thought. Your objective is being able to control your own thoughts. You need mindfulness before you can stop being a stupid nigger. 8. Exercise. You don't need weights. Do push ups, squats, crunches, burpees. Don't over do it either. Go for a walk. Cardio is never bad. Now it's time for some introspection. 9. Get a piece of paper. Write down everything that comes to mind for the next 30 minutes. Why 30? Because 29 is too short and 31 will make you spazz out. Incomplete sentences are fine. Just write it out. Once you hit 30 minutes, write the date+time on it. Grats on your first journal entry. 10. Now figure out what you like and want. Goals. What do you not like about yourself. What do you not like about society and other people. What about things you do like about other people and society that you aren't? Write that all down. Now you have some form of direction. Work on that list. 11. Now you've got all this, it's time to eliminate all that wasteful time spent. Stop watching television and block websites in your /etc/hosts file that waste your time. 12. Now actually fuarrrking do them. Here is some more ideas: >start your day with a glass of water. End your day with a glass of water. >Jog a few times a week. Need a number? Jog 4 times a week. >Find a list of books and start working down that list. Can't find anything? Check out "Great Books of the Western World" - They're actually great. >Visit your elderly relatives on the second weekend of every month. Bring them something sweet that you know they like and have a cup of coffee and just talk to them. Wondering why this is so specific? Pick a different time then. >Read "How to Read A Book" by Mortimer, then "The Trivium" by Sister M, then read Meditations by Aurelious. Why these books specifically? Because you don't really know how to read, you probably would have to ask what the trivium is, and meditations helps you look inward and be a better person. Plus you could use a little comprehension of stoicism. Don't worry, they are short books. I've included three images that I think you'd find to be useful. I wanted to not include an image - as you likely will simply save it and never open it or apply it. However, I have my own tasks and such to do. Don't roll on the "SIG" images. Simply just do them.

>>26209 Therapists don't fix your problems. They try to guide you to do it yourself.

>>26211 >pasta aglio e olio > impressive meal Literally what drunk italians cook for themselves at 5 in the morning

>>26219 I didn't make the list. I'd recommend coq au vin, since it's easy but tastes good... Japanese curry is always a good one to go with. That was a weird thing to criticise anyways.

I really have this thought in my mind that I'm a sleepwalker or exist in two places at the same time, either that or OPs post described exactly how I feel too, it's frighteningly accurate, get out of my brain. I feel like a walking talking corpse all the time, I have no aspirations, I have no skills, I have no interest, I have no soul. I spend my days in exactly the same way, wake up, lie in bed for a couple more hours, go on the PC, play video games and browse social media until I get tired, go to bed, repeat. All the half-arsed dreams I had growing up withered away and died because I never really enjoyed them or desired them, only the prestige of having them or the ability, not because I had any actual interest in it, that happened with absolutely everything from learning a language to learning "computer stuff" as the OP puts it, learning any form of art, and so on. I have developed a severe failure impairment and inferiority complex because of this, and I can't with any effort attempt something without feeling like a failure and a piece of trash, no matter what. I never made any friends growing up because I had complete social anxiety, I might be a sperg, who knows. And even then I can't even make proper friends in the autistic image board circle because as opposed to those people, I don't have any actual redeeming qualities, no interests to discuss or argue about, no beliefs to debate, I'm just a hollow shell, and nobody cares about people like that. I'm trying to get my hands on a therapist who isn't already fully booked from the surrounding nutjobs in my area, and that is turning out to be a real challenge, at this point my only desire is to die, thanks to my country's gun control efforts I can't impulsively buy a gun and blow my brains out, and all other methods require too much effort for my inept brain, or are too frightening/long-delay for me to carry out without chickening out, I'm a coward. I can't give you any advice on your problems OP, since I'm suffering in the same way, I wouldn't be writing this otherwise. All I can say is that I hope you can find some luck with getting proper help, as you said, your issues make it hard for you to help yourself, sheltered upbringing, so you really need to find someone.

>>26206 Also might be of interest to you: 7 Ways to Maximize Misery by CGP Grey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o

Get a job or enroll in school, even if it's a soykafty 2-year program. When you're a NEET your time becomes worthless, and you treat it as such; you have nothing to look forward to so you lose your motivation, you don't talk to people so talking to people becomes terrifying, etc. It's a vicious cycle that keeps people trapped in the terrible state you're in. Almost nobody can live on intrinsic motivation alone, and living this kind of life, with zero structure or goals, will turn even the most passionate person into a lifeless, directionless husk (I know this from experience). In order to improve your life in a sustainable way, you need to do something that imposes an external structure/routine on your life and set realistic long-term milestones and commit yourself to achieving them. Or at the very least start seeing a CBT therapist. If you don't do these things then I guarantee that your life will never get better than it is right now.

>>26222 > I can't with any effort attempt something without feeling like a failure and a piece of trash, no matter what. I feel the same way, I constantly think of death and then I try to re-examine my life for some hope but i realize that I'm never going to make it out of this place mentally and I'm like damn I'm probably going to actually end up killing myself, this is it, this is my life

It's very relatable. I'd imagine a large minority of young men are in the exact same situation from the looks of it. and the problem is that a lot of the advice given by people is really ignorant, as if we don't already know that having friends, or eating healthy, or exercising, or quitting our vices is good for us. the part that makes it so painful is that we all know how to have a good, healthy, meaningful, fulfilling life, yet we just refuse to live it. it can feel insulting to our intelligence being told to do all these amazing things, and just be cool, and hardworking, and healthy. i manage to do it 10 or 20 percent of the time, but the other 80 percent of the time, I'm burnt out hard. that's my life, don't tell me to try harder, cause I'm already trying my hardest. i hate being this pessimistic. I've done cool, brave, bold things in my life. I've worked hard, and taken risks, but that was when i felt i had the energy, and i don't right now.

>>26219 >Cherrypicks one thing to bitch about in a sea of good advice. >>26311 >yet we just refuse to live it. For who would be living a good life, if not for yourself?

>>26312 *For who would you be living a good life, if not for yourself. e

>>26211 I hope OP will find your reply useful but I think it's ignorant answer because all those tips won't really have effect on the deeper problem that OP is facing. I don't suggesting that self-discipline is not important, quite opposite habits are crucial for proper life structure. But we all know about it. Bigger issue is a lack of social stimulus. Which is the thing that most of the people who are posting this kind of advices are taking for granted. Without connections to others we become soulless shells seeking only temporary pleasures. The thing is when you are at zero with your social life it's crazy hard to get to one. Habits, and other things that's easy part. Trust me. >>26312 We live with others and for others. We are social animals. Our best memories a lot of times involve others. Most of the time when you ask terminally ill people what they regret the most is that they spend too little time with family and friends.

>>26316 >all those tips won't really have effect on the deeper problem that OP is facing I would agree with you if everything we do were in a void. The reason I often suggest things like this is because these things have the ability to lead one to an answer. It's a one off example, but better than nothing: I was a depressed, paranoid NEET with a few stints in the mental hospital, no friends, etc. Now I'm still depressed and paranoid, but a lot less so as I can rationalize things. Dude, I don't want to die anymore. I'm not a NEET, I've got a really good path laid out thanks to planning and such - I am even pretty close to closing on a large plot of land with a house and everything. I have been working on this for over 5+ years. I wouldn't have this if I hadn't worked at it. It's one step at a time. It is like kicking dead whales down the beach, it's not sexy, but that's what you learn if you work out and dedicate time, etc. etc. I am still not great at talking to people. But I am less worried about that. Did you know that most people do not know how to talk to people? It's hilarious when you pay attention to others. Half the time it seems accidental when something works out. The social stimulation issue: You simply figure out your interests and go try to find groups or such for these things. They tend to exist. The hardest part is taking that leap and making it happen. You're more likely to actually do this if you have confidence that would be built from something like working out >Hey I went from barely being able to do one push up, to doing 150 per day without issue. So, I can do this. >I went from knowing nothing about computers to being an authority on [insert computing subject here] It's amazing what a little earned confidence can do for you.

>>26317 Not OP. At this point, living for longer than a decade in this state, I've come to the conclusion that confidence is not something you can gain, but a personality type. It's a spectre, a ghost, an apparition. This is all alien to me, I'm not cut out of the same cloth as the superhuman types who can learn whatever they want with their functioning memory building, with their functional passion and desire, with their confidence and strength and grit that came out of nowhere, like magic. This doesn't sound real, it can't possibly be real, I've never had this, like anything else that everyone else who is functional has. At this point being a dysfunctional, immature peter-pan dickhead with nothing going for him is a part of me now.

>>26335 Personality type? But lainon, I was in this state for 2 decades. I include my single digit age. I realized the world was trash and tried to kill myself at 8 or 9 years old. Figured that's probably a good starting point. I dropped out of high school, didn't get my GED until I was 22, and I didn't even study or anything. All I did was show up. My mom drove me there. I was addicted to robotussin, alcohol, and such. I was a friendless loser who played video games all day. Ther was no confidence then. >inb4 oh, it must be some hidden bla bla bla Then you're just making some excuses and I guess good luck.

>>26340 MBTI? That horoscope for men? I've got fuarrrking idea, most of those online tests for that assume you are a functional person, and asks you for strengths, they aren't cut out for those who have no strengths in anything. But I usually get an INTP from them, sometimes jiggling into INTJ or ISTP or other soykaf. I also remember getting a solid 100 or a 99 on the neuroticism scale with the Big Five. Growing up I just bumbled through life, never really studied because I didn't know how, and if it had any effect in the first place, don't know how to drive, don't know how to feed myself, signed up for uni, got soykaf grades and collapsed after two years. Felt like killing myself since I was 14. I'm not addicted to alcohol or cigarettes because I never had enough exposure, I can't afford them and they take effort to buy, so I never got hooked on them, my addictions are soda, junk food and internet. I barely eat to satisfy hunger, only to beat stress, if I had some soykaf like heroin or ketamine to shoot up I would forget to eat food, I already forget to drink water, if there is no soda to get my sugar high I just don't drink anything, piss is orange all the time. I'm this anon by the way (>>26222). I can't get inspired about success stories, hearing stories about alien skinwalkers getting over this soykaf makes me want to smash my head against the wall above anything else.

>>26317 I'm glad you were able to get your life in some sort of order. That's really admirable. I also hope that your situation with mental health and social life will get better. The thing that I tried to point out was that relying on those tips may be unwise in the long term. And I'm saying that because I know what I have gone through and saw what happen to the other people in similar position. Inaction is of course not a solution. But those little things won't stand a chance when terrible things occur. As I said - habits are great, they are cornerstone for a good life. But we need social connections. And I'm not talking about some people who you meet twice or something. I'm mean real connections. I truly believe that person without family bonds is fuarrrked. As of physical training I agree - it's great. I'm doing it for years and I love it. It helps with my mental state. But proper confidence lays deeper in a psyche. It's not something we can change with a couple of push-ups. I speculate it is defined in our early childhood. In summary what I want to say is that to make lasting change we not only need to create healthy habits and work hard. We have to have some sort of social connections that will keep us on the path. Because our motivation and strength may not last long. Especially when we will face bigger problems. We all heard those stories when someone is trying to do all those smart things and routines only to fall short after some hiccup. And that just imprints in mind that "whatever I do it won't change a thing" it's called learned helplessness. I personally still didn't recover from that.

>>26316 This is one of the reasons why an externally-imposed routine is important; if you're working a job, going to class, or volunteering then you're forced to socialize. >>26317 Good on you for escaping that life. It's not easy, but it's worth it. >>26335 >I've come to the conclusion that confidence is not something you can gain, but a personality type. That's not the case at all...people lose and gain confidence throughout their lives, and anybody living like a socially-isolated, directionless loser is not going to have confidence.

>>26335 >>26348 You are not inferior to others. Please try to be kind to yourself. I can relate in some ways and I think I have idea how you feel but did you consider that maybe eating soykaf makes you feel like soykaf?

>>26364 Well then, how does one gain confidence if you need confidence to do something that gives you confidence? It's a catch-22, people who have reached rock bottom with their humanity have nothing of value and no connections that can help them grow back into a healthy state. >>26365 Well, it's obvious that I am inferior to everyone, I know nothing, I like nothing, I can do nothing, I am passionate about nothing. Even on this website where the average person knows about tech, likes sci-fi or cyberpunk media, and has convictions and values related to economics, politics, society, what have you, I am an anomaly, the one guy who only lurks, half-assedly reads what people write and forgets it the next minute, never saying anything, because anything I could possibly say is wrong or stupid or uninformed. Everyone I ever knew was smarter, better and stronger than me, and they were people who were either flaunting themselves or gave me half-assed sympathy or soykafty advice which I followed and gave up after not noticing any change. I worked out, I took a diet, I watched my food, I tried things, nothing ever worked. I can't be kind to myself because I am trash, I know it first-hand. And no it's not diet, I do eat normal stuff, mainly because I live with my parents and eat what I'm given, the junkfood is just an indulgence, and even then it doesn't change anything when I don't actually have it, which is somewhat often. Being alive is like kicking dead whales down the beach, seeing so many people get out of supposedly the same state that I'm in out of pure luck or external help that I will never have feels like mockery to me.

>>26366 > Even on this website where the average person knows about tech, likes sci-fi or cyberpunk media, and has convictions and values related to economics, politics, society, what have you, I am an anomaly, the one guy who only lurks, half-assedly reads what people write and forgets it the next minute, never saying anything, because anything I could possibly say is wrong or stupid or uninformed. I don't think you are an anomaly. There is probably handful of people who can relate. I had been burning out of all my interest for years. And as of today I'm completely empty, I'm not giving any output to the world whatsoever. So I think I have idea how you may feel. > people who have reached rock bottom with their humanity have nothing of value and no connections that can help them grow back into a healthy state. Hit home

>>26366 >Well, it's obvious that I am inferior to everyone Naw I'm sure there's someone even worse around. >I am an anomaly, the one guy who only lurks, half-assedly reads what people write and forgets it the next minute, never saying anything, because anything I could possibly say is wrong or stupid or uninformed. See? This already makes you better than the people who also know nothing but post their stupid opinions anyway. It shows a willing to listen and at least try to learn, rather than assuming anyone cares what you have to say.

OP here, i like what my thread has become. I'm like always excited to see what reply will i get everyday and it's kind of fun. I still can't muster enough motivation to do anything which is like kicking dead whales down the beach and i'm pretty much what fellow lainon said. I FEEL nothing, i DO nothing and i KNOW nothing. People here in this board delve into these deep soykafty conversations about various topics and i have absolutly no clue what they are saying. It's like i'm reading hebrew when i'm browsing the tech oriented boards. It's all pointless. Just downloaded gigs of books about computer stuff and various fields. I'm pretty sure i won't read none of it.

>>26367 >I don't think you are an anomaly. It's at least somewhat comforting that people understand my feelings sometimes, but it doesn't really change anything about my situation, and I can't feel happy about it. It's dreadful, I hope you can escape this, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. >>26369 >Naw I'm sure there's someone even worse around. My definitions of worse seem to be different then. A jobless NEET who pees in bottles is better than me in knowing about certain things and being passionate about them, like anime, or video games, or maybe he has a hobby like playing guitar. He has no value to society but he has value to person to person interactions, I don't. An african in the middle of the savannah living day by day still has culture, family, relationships, he might not be smart or see the bigger world but he has solid ground underneath his feet, an identity. A country bumpkin from middle america has friends he drinks beer with, discusses his passions of watching football or shooting guns, he might live in a poor household but he's mature and has learned how to live with his resources, maybe he knows mechanics and can fix a car, he can surely drive, I don't. These people all have something I don't, I'm a piece of moldy dough without yeast while everyone else is a loaf of bread, grown, with intricate texture and taste. Underdeveloped, like a miscarriage that was revived by some form of necromancy. >It shows a willing to listen and at least try to learn, rather than assuming anyone cares what you have to say. No, it just shows a fear of being defeated and emasculated by people who know more and expose my Dunning-Krueger effect. I don't learn, I don't form memories from lack of positive brain chemicals reinforcing them, I like to listen because that at least distracts me from my own thoughts, and I know that nobody cares about what I have to say, because I have nothing of value to say, nobody ever cared about me and nobody will. >>26370 I downloaded that old /g/entoomen book collection and it's been sitting on my PC for years, I have cracked open like two books from it, one on C++ and another on 3D graphics, I read through the C++ book and did all the exercises during a vacation, but I never learned anything. I won't touch it again because of shame and lack of feeling, but even if I did, I would learn nothing from it, I never do. Sorry if I hijacked your thread, it's just something that gives me a lot of pain every day.

>>26373 There is no such thing as hijacking a thread. You just gave me another ressource i can mindlessly download and hope it will transfer to my brain somehow so thanks. It looks neat and organized. I wish i can JUST DO IT. Some people think it's so easy...

>>26373 >He has no value to society but he has value to person to person interactions, I don't. This thread is full of people who don't even agree with you but are having a cordial discussion about your ideas anyway. Your posts are coherent and articulate. That makes you more important than the guy who pees in bottles and argues about which animes are moe or not, or just goes to comments sections to degrade other people's efforts verbally.

>>26377 The thing is you can, you just won't. My mother once told me something along the lines of "Stop being a pussy".. that got me moving.

I've had a similar experience to yours, where our experiences diverge is the fact that i got "lucky" to have been considered more of a nuisance by my parents, so i had to either starve to death or learn to do meatspace management. By your description you're comfortably numb and if i were in your shoes, i honestly can't think of anything that would get me out of this situation besides necessity. You mentioned personal projects, why did you even start those projects? Is it pride or just the joy of making something? Understand what made you do these projects, something had to move you towards thinking of starting them, the idea of having them finished drove you towards thinking they could be a good for you, fulfilling in some way. Dig into that, not necessarily with a specific goal to pursue those interests again, but with the goal to understand why you wanted to pursue them in the first place. Maybe you'll discover these projects were just a way to pass the time and your motivations can be placed somewhere else entirely. That's what i did at least. Sure, physical hunger is a powerful motivator but what really drove me out of this pit was constant self examination. Not everyone has purpose handed to them, so i had to build it myself and figure it out what is it that drove me and how to best live my life in a fulfilling way. Find what drives you, who you would like to be and why, then act on those principles. If you find nothing and decide you have no reason to leave your current lifestyle, then don't. What is killing you is doubt, so dig into yourself until you're sure of who you are and where you want to go, whatever the answer is. Life is painfully miserable, sometimes you just need more time, context or environment. Either way, you can never make any progress if you don't know what you're progressing towards.

>>26388 I think you read too much into it.Those goals are just stuff i made up looking at some external stimuli because it catched my attention but i never really thought much about them. It's like a bunch of fantasies i daydream about every once in a while. Like that one time i saw my pc repair guy in his shop and he was stuck in this tiny cramped room with old wires and cases on top of each other making two columns and it was a legit mess. I kind of loved that scene. I'm not comfortable or uncomfortable. It's this state of bleakness i have. I'd rather be uncomfortable because then i might realize what is wrong with me and work on it. I just want to have something and like feel things. I have none of that. You know ? It's hard to explain.

>>26393 I know. What i meant is that you should attempt to understand yourself, and that is the only way out i can see. The goals you choose don't matter by themselves, but for some reason the guy in a tiny cramped room fool of hardware inspired you, it caused a reaction. When you see an executive in an office or a skater in a park you don't feel any reaction. But when you saw the guy in a room full of hardware you thought it was cool. That's a lead, that's something to hold on to and try to understand. Understanding what stimulates you is how you create your own path and cultivate hobbies, interests. And cultivating hobbies and genuine interests is how you develop a personality. It's a way out of limbo.

>>26222 >>26206 You know what helps me. Ketermine. Just a small bump every week. For a few hours I can actually think without it just being a cloud of anxiety.

>>26373 >>26366 I think your accessment is true. you are nothing. now heres an insight: everyone starts out as nothing. reason people know about cybersec is because they read about it. reason people know politics and philosophical is because they read about it. reason people have phds is because they spent 8+ years getting one. of course things wont magically come to you. stuff is earned, slowly, painfully. luck is made. of course you are far behind people who have been investing in themselves, creating themselves, for 10+ years, while you did nothing. so? you start where you are, nothing, build basic function and take it from there. every little piece of personhood is made. of course, if you are depressed and lethargic you have to work on those while beeing depressed and lethargic. wich is slow, painful and inefficient. do you have something better to do?

>>26423 Yeah I've already heard that from someone else in my life. I have nothing better to do, I have a million things I could be doing instead of sitting here, but I don't want to anymore. Everything's a waste of time. I can't learn things, I don't remember, I don't enjoy, I don't grow, this has been a constant my entire life. I just want to go to sleep and never wake up again. It's been so long that this is a part of me now, changing in any way would require me to completely die as a person and replace myself with someone else who can actually care, and by that point I'm not me anymore. Most functional people run on a mental autopilot that is their own motivation, their personality and such pushing them to do things, I don't have this.

>>26437 This thread itself indicates that you don't want to continue being as you are. If you don't want that, you have to do something about it. Nothing will happen otherwise. Even asking for help IRL, it has to come from you, nobody else.

>>26348 I was confused for a second why you mentioned MBTI... I get INTJ or INTP. Apparently, it is entirely normal for someone to move between two or even three. I wasn't trying to "inspire" you. I'm just telling you that you are flat out wrong. If you completely dumped the sugar, you would be doing a little better. I wonder if you've had your first kidney stone yet. I remember mine. I did this thing where I drank Dr. Pepper or any other soda I could get my hands on, for literally years straight, and stayed away from water. It caught up to me after a few years. haha hurt like a motherfucker. I shot a ton of blood into the toilet, crawled out into the hallway moaning "please kill me" LOL. My mom woke up and drove me to the hospital. >>26363 I see, I understand where you're coming from. Sometimes it is hard for me to remember that human beings are social creatures, because I work exceedingly well in isolation. One of the things I can say I am extremely luck about is having so many people in my family that haven't bailed on me, especially if you consider that the majority of people tend to come from broken homes... Maybe I used to be, but I am absolutely not equipped to help anyone out with that, short of just saying "Go make your own family" - And if you can do that, you likely don't need help, right? >>26366 >catch-22 It's not a catch-22. You don't need confidence to self improve - You just need to show up and do it. Self improvement won't end all your problems, but it is a damn good start. I'm not just talking about working out, either. Anything that advances you, in any way, or shows you that you are capable of anything. Gardening is a good way, you have to dedicate your time, daily, and at the end: You quite literally get to experience the fruits of your labor. The real issue is maintaining that confidence - When someone things you have an ego and feel like they need to knock you down a peg. Here's the thing: I have almost no ego. Every time my raisen-like ego starts to swell up a little bit, it deflates within two weeks. "haha I finally am starting to understand mathematics! WOO---oh, wait. What the fuarrrk is THAT?" I soykaf you not: I experience this every 8 - 10 weeks. A lot of people are going to lose their minds when I say this - But reading a lot of extremist right wing literature was probably the most helpful to me. I know, there is a lot to unpack here - But this is the key take away: Those people (notice: I'm not including myself.) needed someone to blame... But what I took from it wasn't "da j00z" or "da leftists"... It was the self. My "scapegoat" is the self. I need to take control of the self, shape the self, and most importantly: not do it for the self, but for those around me that I care about the most. Then once I learned the concept of accepting the things I cannot change (stoicism), I was pretty much set to make soykaf happen. >>26442 This is just the truth. We can't pull you up without you at least putting in some effort. A lot of information is here to get you on the right track - But you still need to actively try.

>>26449 >haha I finally am starting to understand mathematics! WOO---oh, wait. What the fuarrrk is THAT?" I soykaf you not: I experience this every 8 - 10 weeks. Me too. I think math is exceptionally good for this because it's so deep and there's no upper limit to how difficult it can get, plus there is absolutely no fame in being good at math. The only people who will ever understand or care about your mathematical accomplishments are other mathematicians. You might get respect but even close family members will have no idea what you do. Unfortunately that comes with a second, more insidious type of ego, the ego you develop for believing that you are 'enlightened' and are better than everyone else for it. Very hard to get rid of that one. I think a lot of the point of Buddhist monasteries is to get rid of it. >>26206 >I don't think there is anything wrong with being "normal". I believe anything can be an improvement to my dry and monotonous way of living. odd... I find being 'normal' to be dry and monotonous. I guess it depends what you mean by 'normal' though, if you mean having friends and being sociable then you're probably right. >I'm talking about life skills in general. I have no idea how to cook, maintain my hygiene like routines and shaving, paying utilities, etc… Relatable. I almost didn't graduate from college because I forgot to fill out a form. I don't think this is necessarily a shelteredness thing... I wasn't particularly sheltered, but it is definitely a common opinion that I may have some kind of autism spectrum disorder. The particulars don't matter, what matters is that some people just aren't good at functioning in the modern atomized, bureaucracy-filled world. Don't beat yourself up over it. Grigori Perelman won a Fields Medal and he is a recluse who lives with his mom. >A typical day for me involves browsing the internet and watching TV all day. It's just a mindless circle of downloading and deleting, installing and uninstalling usually the same things over and over, switching between tabs and channels every 10 secs hoping something happens and staring at a stale page. This happens to me very often. The way to break out of it is to just start doing something else. Read a book, go for a walk, literally anything. Don't say "I can't" because you absolutely can, I don't want to hear that soykaf.

>>26442 Well, I do want this all to end, but I don't want to invest the work into ending it, because I feel too incompetent and lazy to do it, and I don't believe it would make any difference. That's the thing, I want end results but I don't want to do the things that are needed to take me there. I want to have a hobby but I can't like anything, I want to go into therapy but I can't bring myself to do my searching properly, I want to die but I can't bring myself to commit suicide. It's fuarrrking tiresome, I just want to disappear. Even so looking for doctors is a fuarrrking chore in itself because I'm getting zero help on this regard. >>26449 You said "Personality type?" and I thought it was a question instead of a rhetorical question, because I was stupid and forgot what I was talking about. And the success stories part was me replying to your >>Hey I went from barely being able to do one push up, to doing 150 per day without issue. So, I can do this. >>I went from knowing nothing about computers to being an authority on [insert computing subject here] soykaf that I've heard a million times from people who are fundamentally different from me. I have no ego, I have an anti-ego, everything I try fails and I hate myself for it since I'm an incompetent piece of trash, no matter how little I try there's always someone around to tell me that I'm worthless and I believe them because they're right. You talk about getting this feeling of "I don't understand this" every 8-10 weeks, well I get it daily for the past 10 years, with no feeling of understanding ever. I was trying to do C25K as a workout a year ago and I gave up on it because my knees hurt and my brother laughed at me when I told him that it starts with brisk walks and he tells me that he runs 10km a day with no sweat. I don't want to take control anymore, it's effort for no gain, there's nothing worth anything for me at this point, I just want to die and give some ghost spectator control of my body so they can do more than I ever could. Either that or I'm still gonna cruise through my soykafty life until I get lucky with finding someone who can help me, or failing that just get on ketamine or some soykaf.

>>26366 >Well then, how does one gain confidence if you need confidence to do something that gives you confidence? you don't need confidence to do anything, you just need the will to do it. Do you think everyone who ever asked out a girl was confident in themselves? It's a matter of swallowing your doubts and going for it.

>>26454 >You talk about getting this feeling of "I don't understand this" every 8-10 weeks, well I get it daily for the past 10 years, with no feeling of understanding ever. For someone who doesn't understand anything ever, you sure are authoritative on the fact that there is no hope. >I was trying to do C25K as a workout a year ago and I gave up on it because my knees hurt and my brother laughed at me when I told him that it starts with brisk walks and he tells me that he runs 10km a day with no sweat. your brother is an asshole. Don't listen to him.

OP, I think what you lack, and so many in this thread do not understand, is just motivation. People aren't simply moved by rationality. Knowing that about the end goal, the benefits of something, the solution to a problem, doesn't necessarily result in a compulsion to move towards it. It's easy to take it for granted when you have it. For instance, you think about learning programming and you feel excited, your mind sort of goes through the possibilities, the flow of things, going from A to B to C, there is a sense that this will lead to something positive not "rationally" and "abstractly" but it's almost like you can taste the potential in the ether, if brief images of success pop in your mind there is no cognitive dissonance, you do not need to convince yourself, it simply comes out and carries you. When you come up on an obstacle, you are determined to prove the world wrong, to materialize this vision you have and each successful step feels good. That is what you lack, but seemingly in all areas of life. Most people have one or two areas where they can get this feeling regularly and that is where they usually thrive. In other areas, they feel like you, "I'll do it tomorrow", usually about exercise. They make very little progress in those areas, if any, for years probably. Knowing that exercise will result in better health or that programmers earn big salaries is an abstract thing. It's not something that will move you or result in putting significant time and effort into it. This happens because there's a distinction between two parts of the brain: system 1 and system 2. One is fast, unconscious, automatic, the other is slow, conscious and deliberate. The advice in this thread is all about improving system 2 thinking, pointing out the rationality of improvement and assuming that forcing yourself through this process will eventually become easy and automatic. It's unlikely that verbal arguments and yelling at yourself will convince system 1 because it is unmoved by such things, but rather much lower level processes like perception and emotion. Change has to happen through them. For instance, telling yourself that you can do something vs showing yourself experientally that you can do this thing. One is abstract and the other is concrete, something you can feel and touch, something that seems like solid ground on which decisions can be made and beliefs changed. >Well then, how does one gain confidence if you need confidence to do something that gives you confidence? Confidence is just the perception, the feeling, the sense that you will be successful in some activity or that failure and consequences can be handled and won't affect you much. The popular advice is "fake it till you make it", gaining confidence is about perceiving yourself succeeding enough times and remembering it, or simply dealing with the consequences successfully. Confidence is all about system 1. System 1 gets improved/trained through perception and experience. It doesn't understand abstract rationality and reasoning like system 2, it deals with very concrete things. Like, rationally a girl slapping you in a crowded bar is not that big of a deal, but system 1 knows about social humiliation and no amount of rationalizing will remove the shame. Positive social consequences are also a big push and reward for system 1. If you get rewarded socially enough for a particular behavior, you bet your sweet ass that system 1 will make a note of it and make it easy for you to do it in the future. My point is, your problem is this fast, unconscious, automatic part of your mind that is wholly unconvinced by all the advice in this thread. I do not know exactly how you can make yourself change, because I'm essentially in the same boat, albeit I do have some areas where my system 1 can thrive like programming and technology. In areas like socializing, not only am I unmotivated but I'm quite often motivated to avoid it as much as possible, often manifesting itself as anxiety and boredom around people, it's often very difficult for me to perceive any kind of positive potential in human relationships. I realize this is because of my early development and lack of success in that area.

>>26458 very interesting points lain >This happens because there's a distinction between two parts of the brain: system 1 and system 2 I've seen this sort of separation in a variety of pop psychology/neuroscience books, I really like the characterization given by Walter Mischel in his book The Marshmallow Test. He describes a "hot system" and a "cool system". The former is impossible to be aware of, functions instinctively and automatic, the latter deduces using rational thought processes and acts upon these. The "hot system" can be attributed to the more primal parts of the brain, our "reptilian brain", cortical regions that show many similarities to those of other species, while the "cool system" is very much unique amongst humans and is represented by much more recently evolved cortical regions such as the frontal lobe. He brings up many interesting points, like a study in which neuroscientists tried to figure out how much people associate with their future selves. The patterns of neural activity when thinking about yourself are somewhat distinctly different from the patterns of neural activity when thinking about a stranger. What is interesting is that these neuroscientists found that the pattern of neural activity that pops up when people think about their future selves is in many cases much more similar to the pattern of neural activity when people think about strangers, rather than themselves. This effect varies depending on how much into the future people who are put into the MRI are asked to project themselves. He later cites a cool concept called "psychological distance" (an overloaded term sadly), which is composed of variables like "temporal", "spacial" and so forth. The larger this distance, the more likely people are not to associate themselves with a scenario. If you think about yourself in this specific place at this specific time in this specific environment you are currently in, there is no psychological distance and you associate with this self you are thinking about. But if you try to imagine yourself in some very remote country, or some absurd future time frame, suddenly you don't associate this person you are thinking about with yourself anymore. It is indeed very troublesome to reign over the hot system, I recommend people to rip the book for its vast array of concrete suggestions on how to still do it. It is surprisingly grounded in actual experiments confirming some of the theory.

>>26455 >Just have will bro If someone was able to just "go for it", they wouldn't be posting in this thread. What makes people be able to "go for it"? I think you have to be in a culture that gives you a good reason to and encourages you in various subtle ways over time to "go for it". Like, I ask myself: what am I trying to achieve? Why are we going for it at all? I mean, the lifestyle a lot of us are talking about obviously *feels* bad, and yeah, not being useful to anyone and not having anything to do with your time is bad. Not having a role in society is bad. Having nothing to give meaning to your struggles is bad. If hacking your own psychology by yourself qua >>26460 was going to work I probably would have found a lifehack that worked by now. They say it's bad to blame society for all your problems but it certainly make me feel better sometimes, if a little powerless. But maybe, if the will comes largely from your surroundings and your culture, building a meaningful place can help out. And now we're back to: >just have a supportive and creative community that gives you meaning bro

>>26460 It doesn't matter whether you call it "hot"/"cold" or "system1"/"system2", I just wish the idea was more widespread and that there was more research on practically changing/influencing the more primitive, yet more powerful of the two. At best, it seems the only viable solution offered is continually improving S2 and continually fighting S1, being hyper-vigilant about your own behavior and thoughts and then applying nudges that eventually lead to meaningful change i.e. what is called meta-cognition. This however is largely impractical because even if you are lucky enough to be aware of a particular bias, it is very difficult to change it simply by thinking really hard about it. S1 responds to experience, even imagined experience. The problem, as I see it, is to understand exactly which experience and what aspects of it are responsible for learning and unlearning a particular behavioral expression of S1. As a socially anxious person, being in public transportation makes me hyper-vigilant and naturally anxious, no matter what I rationally think. S1 seems to control perceptual processes which highlight and make salient certain parts of your experience and control their valence i.e. an ambiguous expression by another person makes me instantly think I did something wrong, even if I take the time to deduce using S2 that it's just my mind playing tricks on me. S1 also controls motivation, perhaps through the same perceptual processes of highlighting certain features of an experience and communicating a certain valence i.e. "goodness" or "badness" of something. When it comes to daily subjective experience, S1 is simply king and there is no amount of meta-cognition that can change that. And even though mainstream psychology might be aware of this distinction, pretty much all of the popular psychotherapies function based on improving S2. CBT seemingly just ignores S1 entirely, believing that all emotional disorder simply comes from conscious thinking. Even if a particular thought might reflect an person's problematic emotions in the moment, they are usually automatic and aren't the result of S2, in my opinion. Changing such thoughts through effort usually results in simply masking the original problem, making the person even more neurotic as they learn to suppress and distrust their own thoughts (not exactly a recipe for sanity). Back to the original problem, what aspects of experience are responsible for training S1. Uttering or thinking certain verbalizations is not the solution because this is engaging with S2. If they are contradictory to what S1 is telling you, it will simply feel dishonest and you will experience cognitive dissonance. Because S1 is responsible for perception, it has the effect of highlighting and masking certain parts of the experience, so you never have the whole picture even before it reaches S2 conscious thinking (the same as pondering an equation with missing elements). So changing S1 has to happen before hand, not after the fact as meta-cognitivist would like to believe. S1 only changes through experience, no amount of rational thinking does anything. Most the advice in this thread is to "just do it", force yourself to do stuff until something changes. This might work sometimes, if you are lucky enough to have the kind of experiences that result in S1 change, but that corrective experience might never come and mental energy is limited - there is only so much you can expend in bashing your head against the door in order to open it, before your skull just caves in leaving the door intact. Sometimes, all a person needs to do is "go outside" and they'll have positive social experiences that change their perception of the world, but most individuals are not so lucky as to have opportunities like that. Negative experience is even more damaging then doing nothing because S1 simply confirms what it already knows and gets stronger.

>>26458 >>26469 So what does this all mean then? If my S1 is atrophied to the point of wanting nothing anymore, then what? End of the line? Am I just soykaf outta luck by that point? And so far I haven't seen you post anything to back up your claims, though what you say does sound believable. How does one even go forward like this? I don't want to spend my entire life faking functionality just because I got unlucky and had my brain die off from environmental and genetic factors. I'll have to invest 4 times as much effort for 1/4th of the gain, it's a complete joke.

>>26606 Well, I can summarize some implications of this. 1. Unconscious, automatic (S1) processes determine your daily experience and influence/overpower conscious S2 2. S2 thinking is largely ineffective at controlling S1 processes like perception, motivation and subjective value judgments (valence) 3. S1 change only happens through the right corrective experience, right kind of learning/unlearning 4. Consistent personality/lifestyle/mood changes require consistent changes in S1 processes So, essentially, you should be focusing on changing S1 and its related processes, not by improving S2 and meta-cognition, but by going through the "right" corrective experiences. S1 is not set in stone by genetics or environment, it's susceptible to learning just like S2. It just plays by different rules and the problem is most psychotherapy (and most of the advice in this thread) is focused on S2 rules i.e. rationalizing and abstract reasoning, trying to verbally change your own mind and beliefs. Doesn't getting a job and a group of friends sound great? S2 says "of course", but S1 communicates "yikes" non-verbally through emotion, motivation and organizing your perception around confirming it's subjective value judgement of "bad" that's based on previous learning and experience. If S1 and S2 are in conflict, S1 usually wins because S2 requires mental willpower to operate which is a finite resource. How does a corrective experience look like? Well, fundamentally, it's about prediction error, new learning that contradicts old learning. It also has to be rewarding or let you successfully avoid punishment of some kind. Going outside and "socializing" is not enough, going outside and experiencing a rewarding social experience, contradictory to previous learning is what has the highest chance of changing S1. One experience might be a fluke, two in a row is a pattern and S1 picks up on those. Suddenly, perception involving that activity will tend to go on the positive side, motivation changes from aversion towards approach, S1 and S2 are no longer in conflict so it removes the usual side-effect of anxiety, tension. The exact mechanisms and rules are debatable, but you want to focus on having as many experiences that contradict your current predictions, beliefs, ideas and previous experiences, while also being rewarding or surprisingly good at avoiding punishment. Having a conscious grasp of what you're trying to contradict is also a big help, but remember that verbal abstract reasoning is only something S2 cares about. If you want to get in-depth into the neuroscience, here's a paper by Bruce Ecker on memory reconsolidation, the neurological process responsible for erasing/updating consolidated memories and the rules by which it plays. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325718926_Clinical_Translation_of_Memory_Reconsolidation_Research_Therapeutic_Methodology_for_Transformational_Change_by_Erasing_Implicit_Emotional_Learnings_Driving_Symptom_Production As far as S1 research, most psychologists would agree that automatic, unconscious processes exist and influence conscious processing, however there is no real consensus on how those processes operate, nor is there a "big picture" that ties in the multiple disciplines required to shed light on it completely. Ecker's research on memory reconsolidation seems to be a step forward, considering it ties in psychotherapy and neuroscience, perhaps creating the possibility for a practical approach to changing S1 in a clinical setting.

At the end of the day, all those advices will just cancel out each other. If you have problems with motivation and suicidal thoughts you probably should go to a doc for some pills. If you get lucky you will get through this, if not, well it could be worse. Trust me. I'm in soykafty position myself. Years of isolation damaged my brain to the point that I'm just a fuarrrking antisocial wimp with no hope. I had my last spark of motivation in the autumn when I was texting with one girl that I found on the soykafty IM. It gave me some hope, I done soykaf load of things, straighten myself out and what not. Of course, it didn't end well. First I was very insecure with myself (who wouldn't be) and people can sense it. We stopped texting, I get into deeper depression and got some health issues. After that I merged with the darkness once again. There is no future for people like me, who spend their most important time on nothing. Couple of bad decision mixed with a poor background and you're done. Like in some fuarrrking game, but there are no saves or restart. Which is a shame. With that being said you can try to be 1% better every day. Don't overextend and remember about social connections, they are crucial.

OP here, still feeling as empty as ever, nothing has changed and probably never will, trying to kill time everyday browsing the internet. I've never lived in a different way to know if mine is wrong but i still belive something isn't quite right.

>>27515 Have you tried doing any of the stuff people told you? How'd it go?

>>27516 No, it's the usual. I have no motivation for anything. Yesterday, i chronicled everything i've done for the day and it's so sad. I do nothing. I don't know any better or rather i don't want to. I have this tiny bit of interest in changing every once in a while when i get a reality check but not enough to proceed. I can't remember what happened these past few months that i sat from uni because of the lockdown. It's like they never happened. Even if i'm in uni physically, it's just the same thing. It was the same in school. It had always been the same. I don't know what to do.

>>27517 Well, I haven't read everything in the thread, so I might be repeating stuff you already heard. But in my opinion the most important thing is to exercise and sleep well, because often people get trapped in the "feeling tired all the time" mode and don't have the energy to commit to even the smallest of actions or decisions. If you do pushups every time you're about to shower for a week or so, it will already help.

>>27517 >>27515 When you're "trying to kill time" what you're actually doing is killing all motivation for self-improvement. So long as you are complacent, nothing will change. If you get off the web and allow yourself to actually feel bored or uncomfortable, then you will find the desire to accomplish something.

>>26206 I was like you until I became homeless. Nothing like real problems to fix a person or at least finally convince them to kill themselves.

>>27515 >>27517 Have you tried turning the computer off and then turning it on again?

>>28986 I mean, not turning it on again.

>>28986 >>28987 Honestly, that would've been an awesome fix for the "actual" personal computer, cuz it basically means going asleep :D

>>26606 I just read the whole thread, I hope you're doing better in some aspect my dude. I see you writing and I can't help but picture my brother in my head. It makes me tear up reading you. I really hope you find a way to get yourself better... Also, I think you're very elocuent and well spoken, you write almost in a poetic way, even thought you're just bashing yourself. Its sad and funny how it gets filtered out with the "fuaaark"s and the "soykafs". Perhaps you should try writing

The most effective thing you can do on your own to feel better is learn how to reject negative thoughts. What you think about has a powerful effect on how you feel. You can't directly control how you feel, but you can control what you allow yourself to think about, which has a direct and rapid effect on how you feel. Many people who feel bad have developed a whole network of interconnected negative thoughts that recur in their thinking. The trick is to be vigilant when any of these thoughts tries to "sneak in", and eject them, immediately and mercilessly. It's sort of like being a bouncer for your own mind. It's not easy at first, but it gets easier with practice. And one nice thing about it is that it starts working quickly. You don't have to plow though months or years of therapy to get the benefit.

Bruh you need to go to the doctor. You seem a little disorganized

>>34313 Well, I stopped posting here, but came back because I bookmarked this thread on my phone for some dumb reason. Five months have passed and some things changed, most for the worse, but things stayed the same like they always have. I fully dropped out of college because I couldn't keep up with the lie anymore that I was actually interested in what I was pursuing. I kept forgetting the curriculum of the past year, couldn't focus on classes, pre-rona and online, couldn't do my finals due to anxiety, and dropped out in the end, been a NEET for a while and my emptiness has become very noticeable as days pass. I made a friend for the first time in years and we have been getting along for a bit. I went into therapy and started taking meds, neither of which had a quantifiable effect. Apart from that nothing changed, I haven't picked up new hobbies, I didn't consume any new media, played the same games, randomly browsed the internet, still enjoy nothing. Thank you for your empathy, if I reminded you of your brother then I feel sad for him. So far things haven't become better at all, people say that it's a slow process but I don't want it to be so slow that my life is over by the time I can actually start living it. >Also, I think you're very elocuent and well spoken I think you're mischaracterizing me. Stilted speech is a common symptom in autism, schizophrenia and schizotypal personality disorder, might have some small autism or schizophrenia, I am not smart or well-read, I just speak like this because I have trouble speaking, and my vocabulary is extremely lacking in common terms. And some of the poetics is just me waxing drama over how depressed and fuarrrked up I am, like those tumblr/twitter retards who make their mental illnesses part of their entire personalities. I do not want to write. Writing takes world experience which I don't have as a shutin, it takes knowledge of existing works and genres gained from consuming works, I don't read anything, I had terrible grades in school related to writing tasks. Creative work in general is my bane, I wish I could be good at or enjoy at least one creative pursuit but none of them feel good to me, many make me feel shame or disgust over how bad and hopeless I am, most if not all take a significant investment in time and effort, I have plenty of the former but none of the latter. I daydream more than I do, have plenty of thoughts about what life would be like if I were a powerful politician or professional in a field or an authority on anything, I can't do so I just think of what ifs there. My time is running out more and more, five months, the year is almost over and I have not changed at all in it, like the year before it, and will probably be repeated in the coming year.

>>34338 I'm glad to read from you again. Not glad that things are not better, but that you're still around... I don't think you really need to be "amazing" at writing to write. Sometimes I just write to bent, and it feels good (for me at least), because I also realize new things about me when I do it. But don't get me wrong, my writing suck s ass, like sometimes it sounds like a 4 years old kid essay... but meh, I like it and it helps me. > Creative work in general is my bane Well I think your soul is yearning for an outlet my dude, and (for me) making art is like a weird way to "cry it out". Because its obvious that your heart is torn... its like a sadness you can't cry out because is not tears what are building up, if that makes sense. Is this "emptiness" that I also know how it feels. And man, making art is not the cure but it really fkcing helps... not sure if it will do the same for you, but nonetheless I think your heart is at capacity What were you studying in college?

>>34339 Well, it's not really about being amazing, it's about knowing if it's "for you", if that makes sense. Nothing in my life so far has been "for me", I've felt alien as long as I've lived. Creative pursuits and such are terrible, since I'm starved for approval from others, I can't really feel happy with myself doing anything, and I hurt really badly when people insult or mock me for being terrible at things. I've researched that there's a thing called Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria in ADHD, and I've been trying to get a diagnosis on that since my problems at memory retention, skill retention, and motivation were omnipresent my entire life. To be good at something you need to be bad at it first, and I can't stomach being bad at something, so I prefer being nothing. Gave up many a creative pursuit after barely starting, 3D art, 2D art, animation, programming, had some passing interests in music that faded as fast as it came, would like to shoot but local laws are stingy in my country and I have no income sources to fund anything above starvation level. I was studying computer science, the generic field for the modern Gen Z man. I thought I had an interest in computers growing up, my parents were foreigners, old and quite stupid so I was the one who had to work the home computer. Used to wonder how programs work, read source code a lot from games to get an advantage and such, but I never spent much of my free time with it apart from sudden impulses of interest, I just played games. Had some dreams of making my own programs or games and such but I could never amass the energy required to start and maintain any type of project. I used to know a friend in school who had similar interests, but he actually worked towards it in his free time, he bought circuit boards and electronic parts with his allowance, programmed simple file transfer programs, set up a server for himself, while I was just being a pretender, did nothing except play video games and browse the internet randomly. He went on to graduate from the same university I dropped out of. He's the version of me that was good, functional, proper. I am defective.

>>34340 > Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria So it has a name... I think I might have a bit of that too. We have very similar stories brother: I was good at computers while growing, but I also dropped from college (halfway to get a degree on something similar to Computer Science), I've tried every creative venture, but nothing really works. Somehow still managed to learn coding, thanks to my country fuarrrking collapsing and I needed not to die from hunger like real quick. If it wasn't for that I think we would be in the same place. Not sure, because I think your Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria is stronger than mine. I also have a friend which I used compare a lot: He "made it", he studied, graduated, moved to a nice country. Used to see myself as defective, but not anymore. Even though I feel we are similar, I don't really feel I have any advice to give you... I really wish I could give you the magic words that would make you go "oh soykaf, that's it", but I don't have them. Life is fuarrrked, but I've found that a great middle finger to it is actually enjoying it, but that's because I have found things that I enjoy and you haven't. I really wish from the bottom of my heart that you get to find meaning.

>>34341 Thanks Lain. Well, most people had no advice for me, or rather no "working" advice, many things I have heard often that never worked, because I guess my problems aren't as common, or I just couldn't carry them out far enough, another Catch-22, can't make use of advice to fix something because it needs that thing in the first place to be used to fix the thing. I'll still roam around places trying to figure stuff out, maybe having a friend again is going to help me soften up and try something again, maybe the therapy is going to go somewhere eventually, if I get an ADHD diagnosis, maybe amphetamines are going to bridge the gap there, I don't know, meaning is a fickle thing I guess. So far the road ahead is invisible for me, maybe things will never change for me, maybe I'll finally get the balls to jump in front of a train or something, probably not though, survival instincts are strong, and I still somewhat like my parents despite them completely ruining my upbringing. I hope you can do better yourself, you've got something that makes you feel good, so I hope it can recharge your battery well enough for you to try again to grow as a person.

>>34342 Thanks man, really. I'm really really cheering for you. Even thought I don't know you I want you to make it, to grab life by the horns and get to enjoy it. If you ever need to push a bit harder on something just remember there's some random dude somewhere in the world cheering for you. See you at the other side

OK. OP, as soon as you finish reading this sentence, go to your kitchen, get an empty dry cup (preferably tall), bring it back here. OK. Now you have a cup. Put it sideways onto the home-row of your computer keyboard. Ensure that, relative to the keyboard, it does not move. Write down the exact time that you put it there. When it moves relative to the keyboard, write down the exact time that it moved, then do this all again. You can use the computer, only if the cup does not move. When you can do this for 12 hours straight (of any time, irregarding whether it's day or night, irregarding whether you're awake or asleep), you have unlocked the next level: it's the same thing, but with your computer mouse instead of a cup. The next level after computer-mouse, is both computer-mouse and (face-down) TV-remote at the same time. I know it might seem silly, but it makes it (a) slightly difficult to use your `distraction' items, and (b) a small game. Notice, also, that it doesn't take up all your time; at most it takes half your time, and if you sleep well (approximately 8 hours each night), it's much easier. Tell us about each your high-score when you achieve it. Fair warning: I never tried this on myself, but a good friend of mine had a similar problem as you, and after he started playing this game, it got better.

>>34340 >I used to know a friend in school who had similar interests, but he actually worked towards it in his free time, he bought circuit boards and electronic parts with his allowance, programmed simple file transfer programs, set up a server for himself, while I was just being a pretender, did nothing except play video games and browse the internet randomly. >I was just being a pretender I felt this, so much so reading this has almost physically hurt me. I've been plagued by this my entire life, and at the end I feel completely empty and worthless. I haven't developed any creative, or "socially beneficial" and therefore monetizeable interests, I don't even have any real interests related to consumption or personal enjoyment, the only thing that has been accompanying me since childhood is daydreaming. Throughout my youth I would imagine myself to be greater than I actually was, and envision bright futures supported by nothing but my own delusions. Even though I'm older now and have faced reality and failure numerous times and have understood my real worth, daydreaming hasn't gone anywhere, in fact, it has become the single source of occasional enjoyment and consolation for me. Perhaps I would like to create a game, to write a book, to create art, but I loathe the process, I detest the process of actualization, whenever I bring reality into the equation, perfect dreams become tainted with imperfection, and it once again reminds me what an utter failure I am. I have all the pretense and expectations of an acclaimed artist and academic, but nothing to show for it. I am alienated from other pursuits and things in life, and yet I lack the ability and skill to achieve anything in the fields I feel like I belong to. There is nothing authentic about me. My entire being consists of lies upon lies, lies that I tell myself and others.

>>34469 Shit i feel ya. Im kinda in the same route, i gots quite a few projects, but seems they go nowhere. Even if i made good stuff i doubt anyone would even care. I blow my time on either games or drugs.

>>26458 >>26469 Very insightful posts, thank you Lain. My S1 and S2 are often in conflict with each other, but for a few days after tripping mushrooms, I always feel like they merge into one, or are more aligned with each other. In that state, I feel compelled to do things I rationally know to be "good" and feel aversion towards doing things I rationally know to be "bad". The effect wears off after a few days though. I experienced a similar effect, but weaker, after practicing a lot of mindfulness meditation (like 40min every day for weeks). This is why I believe there are other ways besides direct experience to influence S1. Apparently OP is stuck because his S1 prevents him from making the experiences needed to improve his S1. Does anybody have an idea how to bypass direct experience while influencing S1?

>>26206 read zen mind, beginner's mind

>>34508 Good book. thanks lain. Also atomic habits (s1) and the art of thinking clearly (s2) or thinking fast and slow (s1,s2), believe me they aren't soykafty self help books. As someone who by no means got soykaf figured out I'd appreciate some books that'd help during the journey lainons.

>>26206 Don't mind me, I'm just bumping the thread in order to prevent it from darwining out of existence, because the subject of >dry and monotonous way of living and people's similar experiences, their causes and proposed remedies (and their results) interests me from a sociological point of view.

>>37355 Feels somewhat like you're going against the spirit of image boards by necrobumping without adding anything of your own. If nobody has anything to add to a thread then it should die. I made my own handfuls of posts here and despite not having learned anything from anyone and not having changed at all in the half year since OP made this thread, I've kept this thread on my 4chanX watcher to see if anyone can say anything of value that would give me a eureka moment, sadly that hasn't happened.

>>37387 >Feels somewhat like you're going against the spirit of image boards by necrobumping without adding anything of your own. Is that so? I dunno anything about a spirit of IBs. I could share what I've been working on on this thread, however I'm not much of a fan of showing people things that just aren't simply finished yet or talk about things I'm not 100% confident of. But I suppose it wouldn't hurt if people were to see my "contributions", so here goes. I'm trying to come up with a cure for my (and possibly others' similar) ailment, which Mark Fischer aptly called "depressive hedonism". In short, it is a condition where the person is stuck in a local maximum trap of (low effort) hedonistic consumption at the expense of his/her potential/self-actualization/individuation. My working hypothesis is that those who aren't suffering from mental illnesses, debilitatingly traumatic past experiences, plain bad luck or poor life choices, the people who should be doing great on paper, but aren't, are suffering more or less from this depressive hedonism, which is perpetuated by weakness-exploiting mechanisms (the weakness being, plainly put, easy dopamine rushes) in our environment (Youtube, IBs, FB, vidya, movies, fashion, etc.) and sheer lack of sense of direction or point to anything in the modern world, encapsulated by the statement "nothing feels like anything", to which I've come across at least a couple of times when researching all of this. There is still much to be done in order to truly get to the bottom of things, but I'm inclined to believe that the remedy isn't to get a hobby or a job or even a gf. I think some people simply crave a point to their lives. >If nobody has anything to add to a thread then it should die. It can die in peace once I've scavenged what I need out of it. >I made my own handfuls of posts here and despite not having learned anything from anyone and not having changed at all in the half year since OP made this thread, I've kept this thread on my 4chanX watcher to see if anyone can say anything of value that would give me a eureka moment, sadly that hasn't happened. I should probably say that I'm sorry to hear that, but that's not what you're looking to hear from people. Currently I'm of the opinion that going on a psychological journey a la Jung might help people get out of their destructive behavioural loops and instil meaning to their lives, but that isn't a viable solution if it's anything other than a variant of a kind of attitude/motivational problem.

>>37402 It's fine if you don't want to share unfinished work, I couldn't really give you much constructive critique in the first place. Though I seriously doubt that you can come up with a "cure" for this, no offense, psychological issues take far more work to heal than physical ones do, complexity and such, and I don't really think of a random Lainon to have the kind of credentials necessary to develop a promising alternative to "mainstream" solutions. >which Mark Fischer aptly called "depressive hedonism" I have just looked that up and I want to say that I pretty much wholeheartedly reject the notion that there is anything outright political about this predicament, or rather that politics are a major factor of this. People don't live in vacuums, but psychology concerns itself with the individual while politics talk about the collective, society and so on. This kind of predicament doesn't seem common per capita from my view, so I'd assume it is more on the side of the individuals suffering under it, rather than a system encouraging it. If it is so rare then it's more of a problem of not "fitting in", rather than the system not accommodating the very few with special needs. It's an easy cop-out to blame the system for one's own failures, and it's in the best interest of thought-leaders for radical social movements to capitalize on those kinds of people, since they are easy to recruit, so I usually react to those kinds of arguments with outright rejection since they don't feel earnest. >those who aren't suffering from mental illnesses, debilitatingly traumatic past experiences, plain bad luck or poor life choices, the people who should be doing great on paper, but aren't I can say with 100% certainty that this doesn't describe me, as for the others, I wouldn't want to assume, but they didn't really specify it either. Mental disorders or certain personality types can be at fault for bad socialization, bad executive functions with motivation and so forth can be the fault of schemas gained through trauma (Jeffrey E. Young) or brain development disorders like ADHD-derivatives, and I can assume that getting trapped in weakness exploiting mechanism to a debilitating extent to be a poor life choice or bad luck depending on the level of agency in the individual. Assuming that people are blank slates by default is not going to give you a clean data set. Good luck with your research, even if it doesn't result in anything "useful", at least you learned a bit about people and psychology and such.

>>26397 (I cant tell if this is a soykafpost...) I'm all for doing drugs recreationally. But that's fuarrrking terrible advice, lainon. If you do drugs to make yourself happy, you're going to become dependant on them. Ketamine addiction isn't something you want.

>>40089 fuarrrk off.