Collapse

I'm looking for a non-US perspective on the possible collapse of the US empire. Imagine two scenarios: 1. Weakening and increasingly isolationist USA 2. Total collapse of the federal government Now how is this going to affect your country? I think one could approach it from three interconnected directions: 1. Economic effect, this one is fairly straightforward. 2. Foreign policy effect, the effect of US military withdrawal and new regional powers arising as more important to ones foreign policy than the USA 3. Cultural effect, ultimately this will change too and I don't just mean the lower level effects like what media we consume on our screens and what values we uphold in everyday life but more importantly the old international institutions created in the American century crumbling such as the UN, WTO, WHO, World Bank and perhaps new ones arising to take their place, possibly changing jurisprudence around the world. Does anyone know of any analysis related to these topics?

>>24692 I'm not a specialist in the field of politics nor history, but I can imagine the collapse of the USA as slowly weakening and burning out. Considering the oil deposits are running out and even if not, regulations to prevent global warming will be needed, the USA will loose its position. They will be busy with their droughts, desertification and changing ecosystem.

>>24700 Oil deposits aren't and probably never will run out because we are constantly creating new ways to access it, it is only the easy-to-access form of oil that is running out in places like Saudi Arabia, the only civilized country that needs environmental policies is China, they by far generate the most pollution in the world and their CO2 emissions have been going up, not down in recent years when compared to their rivals.

>>24692 What exactly is this "US empire", Anon?

>>24710 >Oil deposits aren't and probably never will run out because we are constantly creating new ways to access it, it is only the easy-to-access form of oil that is running out This is a bit off topic, but I can't see how this could be true. Oil deposits come from plants buried there hundreds of millions years ago and aren't regenerating. Oil technology didn't make any advancement for many years and right now. For example in Canada, getting oil is so inefficient, you get only 2 barrels from 1 barrel of energy used. If a place is "less accessible", then it isn't profitable enough to be worth drilling there. >the only civilized country that needs environmental policies is China, they by far generate the most pollution in the world and their CO2 emissions have been going up, not down in recent years when compared to their rivals. This isn't true either, look at picrel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions#/media/File:2019_AQAL_Capital_and_Tom_Schulz_variwide_chart_%22Worldwide_Co2_emissions%22.png USA has double the emission per capita compared to China. And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions#/media/File:Total_CO2_emissions_by_country_in_2017_vs_per_capita_emissions_(top_40_countries).svg USA having only about 300 million citizens produces half the CO2 China produces while having 1300 million citizens. In other words, China produces only two times more CO2 while having about 4 times more people. Both American lifestyle and Chinese overpopulation are dangerous. But actually we all need to reduce the emission to 0 now in order to not to kill the ecosystem.

>>24713 >This is a bit off topic, but I can't see how this could be true. Oil deposits come from plants buried there hundreds of millions years ago and aren't regenerating. Oil technology didn't make any advancement for many years and right now. For example in Canada, getting oil is so inefficient, you get only 2 barrels from 1 barrel of energy used. If a place is "less accessible", then it isn't profitable enough to be worth drilling there. The technology is advancing, but it is kept from the public eye due to NDA's, trade secrets, and so on, there are countless teams at work to make acquiring oil from places like Canada more efficient and less costly when more and more demand starts climbing for oil in regions in Canada, then progress will move on faster on those projects and eventually their goals will be achieved, where there is demand, there is money and innovation to be made. >This isn't true either, look at picrel. Yes, a person in China will likely generate more CO2 emissions than a person in the US, but I think you should also take into account how the average wage in China is about $4000 and thus people there will usually rely on alternate forms of transport that generate much less CO2 and therefore overall results in them generating less CO2 than the average American. The issue is that there is minimal if any environmental controls in China and the pollution has only gotten worse over time, in the graph I have shown, western countries are getting much better at dealing with emissions and have actually reduced their CO2 emissions, we need to focus on China if we really want to deal with CO2 emissions. >But actually we all need to reduce the emission to 0 now in order to not to kill the ecosystem. Unfortunately Anon, that isn't happening, unless you want to cause a global economic and social collapse, that is impossible in many ways.

>>24714 *a person in China will likely generate LESS CO2 emissions than a person in the US I swear I'm dyslexic.

>>24700 oil comes from plants. coal is just charcoal. "fossil fuels" is just marketing / a scam

The US will lose power once other countries advance alternative energy sources. It has been too stubborn to diversify so it could fall behind if it doesn't do anything in next few years. Even if that doesn't happen fossil fuel supplies will run out anyway. Also the US is already losing power as more countries aren't relying on the US dollar as the standard exchange but increasingly the Chinese currency.

A tantalizing idea, but it seems more likely to me that it will go full Reich mode and kill billions in war. China has turned out to be better at capitalism than the US is, it's only a matter of time until the US gets desperate. Fascism will be voted in. Dissenters will be rounded up and shot. It's only a matter of time at this point. >>24710 >the only civilized country that needs environmental policies is China, they by far generate the most pollution in the world and their CO2 emissions have been going up, not down in recent years when compared to their rivals. it does not follow from the fact that China is the biggest polluter that they are the only country that needs environmental policies. >>24714 >The technology is advancing, but it is kept from the public eye due to NDA's, trade secrets, and so on and how do you know about it then? >but I think you should also take into account how the average wage in China is about $4000 and thus people there will usually rely on alternate forms of transport that generate much less CO2 and therefore overall results in them generating less CO2 than the average American. It does not follow from the fact that wages in China are low that, if they weren't, people would switch to using more heavily polluting forms of transportation. >The issue is that there is minimal if any environmental controls in China and the pollution has only gotten worse over time, in the graph I have shown, western countries are getting much better at dealing with emissions and have actually reduced their CO2 emissions, we need to focus on China if we really want to deal with CO2 emissions. focus on everywhere. Western governments and corporations are responsible for a lot of that pollution anyway. >>24713 >But actually we all need to reduce the emission to 0 now in order to not to kill the ecosystem. The ecosystem will be fine. A mass extinction event ain't soykaf, it's happened before and it will happen again. The people are fuarrrked. >>24711 NATO, the World Bank, the UN. With the possible exception of the UN(which also has backing from China and formerly the USSR), these are essentially the military and financial instruments of the American Empire. The United States has already essentially laid claim to the entire Western Hemisphere, and have defended their claim heavily. They have troops stationed in dozens of countries worldwide. There is nothing for that to be called besides an empire.

The US will collapse from internal struggles. Its political landscape gets increasingly polorised each passing election. It has come to the point that none of the parties are willing to work on anything across the isle. To pass any actual law a party needs to control both the Senate, the House and the Presidency at the same time, and even then there is always the fillibuster. This polarisation has made it possible for either party to throw out any candidate, even the most hated ones, and thier electorate will still accept it. After all, we'd rather have our asshole than thier asshole. In this procces all old standards are abandond. Are Executive Actions suppposed to be Laws? No! but they are now. Is the President supposed to use an emergency adress as an adspace for Target? No! but he does now. Are you supposed to Impeach a president at the most flimsy excuse? No! but we do now. This is a path that only goes in one diraction, towards the utter disregard of all institutions that hold your country together And then there is the American military, which has become a money black hole with an unquenchable hunger. Moreover, for each dollar it consumes it gains more power to demand for bigger and bigger budgets. This may not end until the military is so big that the economy just can't keep up anymore. And the populous can;t do nothing to stop it because the polarisation has effectivelly removed them from the little control they one had. I am writing this from The Netherlands, a country where the biggest political crisis of the last decade outside of corona is about Nitrogen disposal, not which of the two 80yo senile rapist to hand the nuclear codes. If I compare the United States with my own country I can only see one that is spiraling towards collapse. Within my lifetime there will be a revulution/civilwar/something in America. I don't know who will come out on top in that struggle but I do know that Russia and China will use that struggle as an opportunity to take control internationally. My only hope is that the European Fedralist project pans out well, so that Europe can take the place of the US as the sort of democratic power block of the world. Unfortunatally the Eurocrisis has revealed a powerfull devide between the stingy north and the carefree south and dissolved any sense of trust between the two. Maybe India will be alright when it finally figures out its soykaf? Most likely not though. My perk is that my country is willing to play the lap dog to any country that becomes powerfull as long as we get to make some money out of it. So we'll probably remin out of conflict.

>>24718 >The US will lose power once other countries advance alternative energy sources. It has been too stubborn to diversify so it could fall behind if it doesn't do anything in next few years. It's interesting that I read this post not long after having read this: https://www.city-journal.org/next-generation-nuclear-power The US is still investing in nuclear fission projects, so this is neat. >>24737 >Within my lifetime there will be a revulution/civilwar/something in America. I'm American and also believe this. Plenty of people think otherwise, for some reason. >I don't know who will come out on top in that struggle but I do know that Russia and China will use that struggle as an opportunity to take control internationally. I've read somewhere that Russia has promised support for Texas if it wants to defect from the rest of the nation. It's not unreasonable other countries would try to take advantage of collapse like this. >My only hope is that the European Fedralist project pans out well, so that Europe can take the place of the US as the sort of democratic power block of the world. Democracy is a terrible form of government. How can you look at the US and still believe in democracy? It doesn't matter if the US has real democracy or not. People gradually voted for more and more, until entire populations with no place leading government action could vote, and it's practically impossible to wrest voting rights away once given. >Maybe India will be alright when it finally figures out its soykaf? It's 2020; is India a superpower yet? No, I don't think India will ever be alright. Just look at it.

>>24740 >The US is still investing in nuclear fission projects, so this is neat. Fission is great. The EU also has its fission reactors and research. >It's 2020; is India a superpower yet? No, I don't think India will ever be alright. Just look at it. Don't know if it's because you're American, but Americans often miscalculate their rivals/enemies. Just like you created Chinese superpower by using their cheap manpower. Once you stop supporting China and move your factories to India, you'll create a new superpower. Remember how American businessmen supported Nazi Germany before the WW2? Ford and friends. The USA spoon feeding its enemies is one of the funniest things to see in history ever. It is going to kill your country, sorry for saying this.

>>24722 >it does not follow from the fact that China is the biggest polluter that they are the only country that needs environmental policies. That's why I said that we need to FOCUS on China for environmentalism, not that no other country should have environmental policies. >and how do you know about it then? I don't, we only know that they are happening because innovations and new technologies in that field are released every few years or so, and thus it must mean that they are developing these innovations in secret up until they are announced. >It does not follow from the fact that wages in China are low that, if they weren't, people would switch to using more heavily polluting forms of transportation. My reasoning for that is when people can afford things like cars, then more and more people will purchase them when a new car can cost around 20K and most people in China make only 4K yearly, it causes many more people to go with cheaper routes like public transport, which in turn generates less CO2 overall. >focus on everywhere. Western governments and corporations are responsible for a lot of that pollution anyway. But Anon, I've already shown you evidence that the western countries have been dealing with the environment fine, and that China is the big country that needs to be dealt with first and foremost. These corporations wouldn't even be polluting if they weren't encouraged to ignore any care about anything except money. >NATO, the World Bank, the UN. With the possible exception of the UN(which also has backing from China and formerly the USSR), these are essentially the military and financial instruments of the American Empire. The United States has already essentially laid claim to the entire Western Hemisphere, and have defended their claim heavily. They have troops stationed in dozens of countries worldwide. There is nothing for that to be called besides an empire. But Anon, the US doesn't run those, NATO is a military alliance between western countries, the people in charge of NATO at the moment is a British man and a Norweigan man, not the US, the World Bank isn't run by the US either, it's decisions are voted on by member countries..... not the US. The UN is probably as far as US-controlled as it can be, the US regularly makes votes and decisions there that are consistently shot down by China and Russia. Have you done any research for these organizations?

>>24742 Why do you guys always blame the US government for stuff it had basically no control over back then?

>>24742 I don't think it's impossible for India to become a proper world power, but it would be very difficult. They have a LOT more baggage in the way of development than China did.

>>24716 It's not the same thing but yes the powers that be derezzed making moonshine for a reason. Happened right once the cars were all buying massive amounts of petrol. They could have been designed for moonshine. Rich oil families manipulated everyone and we have had the status quo of oil sense then. The rich will just buy up other assets such as factories that make safer or renewable fuel. They are just the rich guy that buys the stuff. They came to the USA as rich lords and kept being rich there. It's not just the oil industry but the USA literally always has had an oiligarchy. The land dying would make them move back to the old world where they came from with their money keeping them in power the entire time. Such is as it has always been. You can't just have the rich and powerful go away. They relocate. >>24718 They would force people to be afraid of giant lasers (not really lasers but still) and make everyone have it be illegal to own the giant energy source like they did with moonshine and nuclear weaponry. I've even seen newspapers talking of banning solar panels before in the USA. The powers will control what they feel like controlling. >>24692 Rome didn't fall in a day so it really cannot die. It would relocate it's organized rich that went to the USA to control the ignorant masses from the old world in the first place. Five eyes is old world after all. You know and imply the USA is all over old world. It's because the USA is basically the UK and always was. The USA can't fall without taking every single first world country with it, and maybe a couple of second world countries too as first worlds hate second world to the core of their being and would refuse to let them take over.

>>24740 >fission reactors During war time one would simply bring a nation to it's knees by nuking the trillion dollar fission reactors as a war strategy. It's not neat it's a mistake. We need to use less energy not more. Just change how it's made if you're afraid of the environment falling apart, but that would change the status quo and rich old money that owned the oil fields are also basically the law makers. So it has not yet switched to other methods. when it does the rich will sigh really hard and put to work their rich people IQ's at making sure they have a finger in every pocket of alternative energy sources. Just buying the land where any factory is solves the issue. >>24740 The USA has always hated itself. It's why it has the largest crime rates, prison rates, and is the most violent first world nation. It also always calls police action wars. What's that tell you? We never have NOT been having wars in this nation, with others and itself. War evolves to police state bullshitery. First world nations are 'above' war since the cold war. No real wars happen. Just petty policing.

>>24745 >Why do you guys always blame the US government for stuff it had basically no control over back then? I didn't say anything about the US government in my post at all, but to be honest every American is responsible - businessmen for buying bonds of the Third Reich or moving production to China, the government for making it possible and people for choosing the government (likely). >>24764 >During war time one would simply bring a nation to it's knees by nuking the trillion dollar fission reactors as a war strategy. You're talking about pure, pointless destruction. No one wants that. Currently wars are profitable, because there's oil to steal from other countries. Why would you destroy a fission reactor, if you can just use it? Future wars will be for fresh water and cool, arctic land to live in.

>>24779 >I didn't say anything about the US government in my post at all, but to be honest every American is responsible - businessmen for buying bonds of the Third Reich or moving production to China, the government for making it possible and people for choosing the government (likely). You say that as if Poland, France, Britain, and the USSR didn't also seal their own fates during those times.

>>24744 > But Anon, the US doesn't run those, NATO is a military alliance between western countries, the people in charge of NATO at the moment is a British man and a Norweigan man, not the US, the World Bank isn't run by the US either, it's decisions are voted on by member countries..... not the US. The UN is probably as far as US-controlled as it can be, the US regularly makes votes and decisions there that are consistently shot down by China and Russia. >Have you done any research for these organizations? You have to look a bit beyond the figureheads. These organizations were created by American hegemony. None of these things exist in a vacuum, you have to account for the historical context they are in. As a simple analogy imagine the world government structures are an online game, everyone is invited to play but the rules are made according to certain traditions originating from certain countries and the whole thing is hosted and secured by one country in particular. Do you imagine a global hegemon could've acted any differently? By putting itself the de jure figurehead of everything, do you think that would not have had consequences? Eisenhower brought about a great expansion of covert activity and really pioneered its use in foreign policy. I am not sure what are you trying to debate here, that it never happened? Is it really so hard to look a bit beyond the surface... much of it is undeniable history already!

>>24783 >You say that as if Poland, France, Britain, and the USSR didn't also seal their own fates during those times. I'm not sure these countries invested in German military as much or at all compared to the USA.

>>24791 Considering what they allowed to happen to their countries at the hands of several other countries, I think that investing in the German military would have been a best-case scenario.

>>24790 >You have to look a bit beyond the figureheads. These organizations were created by American hegemony. None of these things exist in a vacuum, you have to account for the historical context they are in. As a simple analogy imagine the world government structures are an online game, everyone is invited to play but the rules are made according to certain traditions originating from certain countries and the whole thing is hosted and secured by one country in particular. Do you imagine a global hegemon could've acted any differently? By putting itself the de jure figurehead of everything, do you think that would not have had consequences? Eisenhower brought about a great expansion of covert activity and really pioneered its use in foreign policy. I am not sure what are you trying to debate here, that it never happened? Is it really so hard to look a bit beyond the surface... much of it is undeniable history already! Anon, this is pure speculation that you couldn't prove, does it really matter if the US is hosting the UN and the world bank? It doesn't even host NATO, and as I said before, the US doesn't control them, decisions made in the world bank are voted on by members of all kinds of countries, and the same goes for the UN, if the US makes a decision or action that other countries don't like in those organizations, they can shoot it down. With NATO decisions are made upon by unanimity with member countries, meaning that the US doesn't have control over it either. Unless you can prove that some MGS tier conspiracy is happening and every country in the world is controlled by the US, I really can't believe what you're saying.

>>24779 A nation could grow to dislike a nation that has such reactors for any reason. To manipulate it for any random reason you would destroy some reactors to make an ultimatum. >I have taken from you one eye/hand/etc, do no cross me a second time That's human nature. It's to control the one you hated whether through 'policing' or one nation attacking the other. The USA bombed the food supply during WW2 to starve the Nazis. This killed their slave race. The jews starved due to such battle tactics meant to crush spirits, to get someone to say "okay I give up stop hurting me you win and I will do whatever you want". If the reactors were half destroyed you'd beg the enemy to be your master if you were so reliant on them rather than risk losing the other half. You'd thus have a nation on it's knees. These reactors would be too expensive so there would be a small number to target. It's a blatant tactical weakness that would downright tempt other nations to control you just because they can. Because that's what it means to have a flag. You want your flag to take over other peoplpe's flags. I can see Korea nuking the USA right now if the oiligarchy were this stupid to put money into creating an electric ran world of electric planes, cars, etc. Korea is self sufficient. It can nuke it for soykafs and for giggles. >oh look the USA is talkking soykaf about politics lol time to commie.exe their negative words against our nation >:) religion is another one >allah says to nuke the heathens The world will never run on a rainbow farting capitalist ideal like you assume it can.

>>24796 >The world will never run on a rainbow farting capitalist ideal like you assume it can. It kind of is though.

>>24806 The free market system is a blatant lie. Drugs derezzed. Sex derezzed. X person getting X weapon or product in general (like amazon banning batons and bulletproof vests) are derezzed. Human experimentation is derezzed. I'd say rainbow farting but we have for profit prisons now, and before that they gave tickets to punish people and just kept making new laws to get more cash. How is that rainbow farting? Ban religion and the rainbows might start streaming out of rectums. Maybe. Though I very much doubt it because of how money is a cunt made to control peasants through the art of stealing from them. A king invented it. No rainbows if you ask me. Taxation is theft and money was invented to tax for the sake of the royals, of whom are the few. Such misfortune that causes. The very nature of money and capitalism is bad. Very bad. As in cruel. What rainbows are you thinking about? Capitalism is anti-freedom even without religion. To rule what does a king do even without religion making ethics? He forces people under him using elite soldiers and commands them accordingly to the best of strategies. For his benefit and for his immediate peers benefit or partial benefit. The first thing he does is ban peasants having swords. To this day anyone that might rebel is derezzed a gun. Even further no guns in bars where I live. There are many places they ban having guns. A cop can ask you to put down your beer in your own front yard here. Beer you bought. But you don't control it becuase there is no free market. The market is very controlled. If a rich guy wants to he can go get an escort, drugs, whatever, just go on a boat cruse in international waters where the boat is legalized to do whatever it wants via it's flag. The feudal system is not rainbows, though it is coming out of buttholes.

>>24806 "We're flying! I mean, how can you say we aren't—we haven't hit the ground yet!" -a dumbass jumping naked from a high cliff

>>24812 Anon, some restrictions, regulations, and oversight are necessary for a market to function properly, without them a market could theoretically function, but it would be anarchic, unstable, and subject to failure and disaster, countries like the US learned this the hard way through many recessions, panics, and depressions, eventually, they learned that situations like those are preventable with proper management. Adam Smith himself even mentioned that regulations and oversight are necessary for a market to function properly, if this system has been working as well as it has been, and people like Adam Smith supported it, then I think it's the correct way to go.

>>24817 >...countries like the US learned this the hard way through many recessions, panics, and depressions, eventually, they learned that situations like those are preventable with proper management. Are you seriously fuсking able to say this with a straight face? Especially right this moment, when we are indisputably heading towards a massive global depression the likes of which has not been seen since the early twentieth century, perhaps even worse? In what way have they learned to manage this? They've learned to exploit the flaw and make it pump money and resources upwards to them, but they don't want to stop the boom-bust cycle. It vastly benefits them.

>>24824 >Are you seriously fuсking able to say this with a straight face? Especially right this moment, when we are indisputably heading towards a massive global depression the likes of which has not been seen since the early twentieth century, perhaps even worse? In what way have they learned to manage this? They've learned to exploit the flaw and make it pump money and resources upwards to them, but they don't want to stop the boom-bust cycle. It vastly benefits them. Of course I am, the FED and the countless market regulations were created to give the market much better stability and control after the panic of 1893 and the great depression proved what can happen when the market is left unchecked a small event snowballs. The reason we are in a recession right now is because virtually every business is closed at the moment due to disease, and we're trying to keep it under control, no matter what system that exists, when just about every business is shut down or has to massively downsize, it will hurt the economy no matter what, the only time when that wouldn't happen would be a time when robots manage everything. The FED and the federal government have been a massive help during this crisis by pumping money into markets to keep the economy afloat and have kept the vast majority of people safe from what back in the day would have been a total economic collapse, like it or not, businesses need to be helped in this time if we all don't want to suffer. And who is [them[/i] Anon? And why exactly is it bad for recessions and growth to occur if they are a natural part of the capitalist system?

>>24827 >And why exactly is it bad for recessions and growth to occur if they are a natural part of the capitalist system? the fact that they are a natural part of the capitalist system is why capitalism is bad. The fact that people won't be able to get basic necessities in the future, because of a temporary shutdown that doesn't even eliminate important supply chains, is a reason why capitalism is a completely untenable economic system

>>24829 >the fact that they are a natural part of the capitalist system is why capitalism is bad. The fact that people won't be able to get basic necessities in the future, because of a temporary shutdown that doesn't even eliminate important supply chains, is a reason why capitalism is a completely untenable economic system Like it or not, there are always good and bad times in life Anon, and the market is always fluctuating and changing, the thing is that because of the safety net we have now, a recession does not mean that everybody goes hungry like it used to, everybody is still getting basic necessities, essential work is still continuing, and supplies are still moving around, give it some time and eventually things will get better and the market will be up and running like normal. It is completely fine and it is what allows us to keep moving on in these difficult times.

>>24827 >Who is them? The upper/ruling class of course. The people who manage these markets. If you think we're going to just come right back from this because the fed adjusts some interest rates, you're delusional. We'll see if this turns on and off like a switch. Spoiler: it won't. You're like one of those people who believe the '08 recession ended because the stock market recovered and MSNBC or whatever said so. Everybody just got into precarity jobs and have way less earning power than they used to. The fed has not kept the vast majority of people safe. They've kept corporations and investors safe. Their job is to guard the global neoliberal economic system, not the actual household economics that supports the citizenry. They are fine with us living on the edge of destitution forever, slowly normalizing that until people like you actually believe it's prosperity. >why is it bad for recessions and growth to occur if they are a natural part of the capitalist system? Circular logic. You're just saying that anything capitalism does is good because you assume capitalism is good. And the growth is concentrated only in one class in society. The vast majority of people have not experience real, material growth in their wealth or quality of life for decades. Our productivity has never been greater, but our adjusted wages are flat. If you're insulated from that, it's because you're fairly well off. And good for you. But you're out of touch with the realities of being poor in America. Am I staunchly anti-capitalist? No, not really. I think that capitalism is a flawed system, but it's one of the best we've been able to come up with so far. But that doesn't mean you idolize it, fetishize it by fellating fuсking Adam Smith, who is totally irrelevant. You still try to come up with a better system. We came up with capitalism as a significant improvement to what existed before, but it's not the final rung of the ladder. We have no reason to deify it that way. That is capitalist realism, which is a mirage. We can invent something that fixes the problems of capitalism, but first we must separate our egos from it and admit that it is worthy of critique. We need to acknowledge the problems even if we do think it's our current best system. Does that make sense?

>>24692 I just finished and very much enjoyed Huntington's Clash of Civilizations. It's not about US collapse so much as how our relationship with other civilizations will develop, but you may find it interesting.

>>24817 Anarchy isn't real. It's a spook invented by X king to trick people into paying taxes and being controlled. It's to trick people into thinking the warlords via 'anarchy' are not the same lord ruling you right now. This is anarchy. Capitalism in practice is anarchy, but anarchy isn't real. Only the feudal system. It's all a bad mind game that only the easily fooled fall for. >sex with whore means no nuclear family >no family no society >ban good >sluts allowed though It's anarchy. They 'try' seemingly to stabilize things and fail. Hard. Every time. With everything. Even speed limits. Everyone breaks it because they refuse to agree with the corrupt man charging them not only tax to be ruled but even moar money to be given a ticket. The speed traps meant to suprise you so you get the ticket, them shortening the yellow light and putting cameras to catch you when it's safe to run the light but you still get a ticket anyway. It. Is. A. Giant. Lie. It's just the fuedal system. It's lords laughing and taking advantage of the ignorant masses. The ingorant masses thus revolt, civil unrest destroys the country. To avoid that they do 9-11 of which makes every intelligent person in the world with common sense put a hold on even trying to make the world a better place to avoid absolute dystopias. Leading to further stagnation because the feudal system deserves no science. No flying cars for you. >>adam smith Never heard of him. I ignore existence of meaningless celebrities to take away their power. No hearing the rich and powerful, no power would they have over the masses. I am insulted by even hearing of this person. I will look it up thus now to even see what this person has to do with anything. >17 hundreds guy Ancient history does not apply to how the modern world behaves. Benjamin Franklin applies more because he said that people shouldn't trade freedoms for safety yet we just do that all the live long day like giant retards.

>>24795 Do you really need a MGS tier conspiracy to notice that when one country is significantly more powerful than those around it it will de facto control them. Speaking of conspiracies... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y810FrRvgw

>>24830 >Like it or not, there are always good and bad times in life Anon the argument is that many of the bad times that we experience are avoidable, but are not avoided, due purely to our organizational structures. >the thing is that because of the safety net we have now, a recession does not mean that everybody goes hungry like it used to, everybody is still getting basic necessities, essential work is still continuing, and supplies are still moving around the safety net gets thinner every day. This is also a natural part of capitalism. > give it some time and eventually things will get better and the market will be up and running like normal. It is completely fine and it is what allows us to keep moving on in these difficult times. pic related

OP here, I wasnt really suggesting a discussion of "is the USA going to collapse" or even how, but rather looking for insight on the eventual consequences of collapse to world politics. Surely some agencies around the world are looking into it and hedging their bets?

A total collapse of the US is unthinkable. Hell, its more likely theyll annex canada then that theyll just fall over themselves. But when theyll turn inward, stop funding the global “dont do warcrimes, accept westpfahlian statehood and at least pretend humans have inalienable rights“ rulebook, abandon their protection of shippinglanes that deliver cheap oil and food to the world (or start asking for payment) then things will look more like in the 1600s again. Rich empires and federations raising armadas to guard their shipping lanes while harassing each others shipments (kenya letting millions of breathmasks for europe dissapear at the airport, china attacking south east asian fishing boats and Iran targeting saudi oil harbours as of recently might be forebears), ressourceful lands being in turmoil as said greater nations try to install puppetstates and anyone inbetween scrambling by to keep some local production and autarky, maybe tax some services for the big players. Fun. It would be only reasonable if culture and moral values would localise as well. Maybe there will be all kinds of revivalist talks. Erdogan likes to larp as an Ottoman sultan as the statepress brandishes irredentist maps, there are now selfacclaimed tengriists in the Kyrgise upper middle class and Indian nationalists sucessfully albeit slowly seek to undo the religious neutrality of their government. However, the world will continue to stay connected formally and espeacially the elite which will still be able to afford flights. Universal Popculture stereotypes of how a sovereign nation should dress and worship might be memed into reality. Zoroaster was a Kurd and Rwanda is what they forecasted with Wakanda back in our grandparents days. So actual cultural barriers should be more subtle then when mountains sufficed to seperate people. In contrast, elites uncomfortable with the new state of worldaffairs and unwilling to reenact old identities anew as statesmen with Nabatean characteristics, might use the void the americans will leave by propagating alltogether new but probably authoritarian governing methods. “the instability of the world threatens progress so we must cram it down your throat after our liking with martial methods“ Venezuela trying to adapt an official cryptocurrency comes to mind. More desperate states with a wider net of human ressources might create cultures not as much formed by religion and ethnic history but by models of control or market. Water backed currencies. Eugenic reforms. Strange inheritence laws. Mandatory social media presence. As borders arent cast in stone by the UN anymore and deglobalisation might lead to a few reality checks on certain straight lines. Who will herald the second breaking of sykes-picot? >your country Germany integrated itself totally to the american order with some naughty sidesteps towards russia and china when it came to cheap gas and securing export markets. Our country is absolutely overaged and even mass migration couldnt replenish the youth. A country filled to the brim with retirees and those who want to soon is not a very flexible society and it shows in our politics. The american retreat will catch us by suprise and leave us exposed while internal unity will be challenged over the missing handouts of an ailing social-state. The southern europeans will not pay their dues or work until 70', then die and we do not have the military capabilities nor the martial values necessary to bully them into it. The french however have the martial capabilities and a hold on nuclear energy to bully us into paying the southeners with them taking the credit for this compromise. They will totally try this. European solidarity is a rather shallow thing if noone pays for it. An alternative would be germany swinging east. Our far left is deeply russophile, so are parts of the far right, both would love some heavy handed authoritarianism, albeit I see german chauvinism not as a desirable quality for a sino-russian vassal so a government seeking stability in a russian-german “friendship“ will be leftleaning with some civic nationalism if its aimed against america. Germanys role in a world resembling the 1600s wont be that of a rogue powerhouse but as prized buffet for its adversaries who use it as their political battlefield. Der frechen Völcker schar, die rasende Posaun, Hat alles diß hinweg was mancher sawr erworben, Die alte Redligkeit vnnd Tugend ist gestorben.

>>24878 >A total collapse of the US is unthinkable. we have a state governor referring to his state as a "nation-state" and getting very little backlash from his citizens. Said state is one of the only ones in the federation that has(or had) a booming economy and significant food-growing capabilities. If California splits off the federal government will have to significantly reform. Given how brittle it has gotten, this may simply fail to happen.

>>24878 A total collapse of the US is almost impossible, but there. After reading your post, I figured I got a good sense of your thought process; > We got ships, but due to loss of funds there is gunna be some WILD soykaf in the seas as ships start harassing each other for valuable goods Agreed, lainanon, probably to less of a degree than you'd hope/expect though... When do I get to sign up for a 'Tour of Duty' on a captured steel hull online and sail with pirates for nothing? > localized cultures due to resources becoming less globalized, due mostly to lack of global trading of resources Got me again. Yes, people might have to peel themselves away from their mystical screens and monthly-fee video scams long enough to realize there is more to life than Bed -> Screen -> Coffee -> Car -> Screen -> Car -> Bed Thats gunna cause more localized culture, due to actually having to deal with people, even if its at a distance (right now) or in your face 24/7 (soon) > your country Well, fuarrrk, I am an ameri-cunt If the whole thing collapsed today, there would be soykafloads of wailing on every social media outlet the likes of which have never been seen. There would be, for the first week, just some mayhem followed by cleanup crews after the crowd blew off its steam. People can talk all the fuarrrk they want online, but as far as I've seen, once boot hits concrete, they're already ready to retreat. So soykaf goes south, we recover relatively easily but with alot of dragging feet as the same people who wailed on their cellphones are wailing as they don't get exactly what they want out of it. > Some nation takes advantage of the moment of weakness ....Who? > Nations in South A / Mexico / Canada Any south american/mexican state lacks the firepower for such an endevour, and should they want some kind of annex type BS, the ol US of A would have to get the better part of the deal > China Whew, that'd be a great joke. China would have to be sailing for a minute to get here, and in that minute, we would already be preforming threat assessments on each and every one, preparing to box another world power. But thats stupid Mil soykaf. Neither wants to, nor will. > Russia (...nah) > Europe (also nah) > Anybody else (???) > Personal Theory/Story What I could see is several smaller gangs in Mexico seeing this as an opportunity for some good public affairs and consolidation of power. They stop shooting at each other (perhaps) long enough to realize they could be alot more than punks with AKs and drugs. Proceed to do so, and as several measures Amurrika has taken to prevent illegals get loosen'd in some areas as those personnel are 'needed'. While this is happening and trade goods are getting through unnoticed, they decide to spread them out further than usual. People get out of this to find drugs/weapons are soykafloads more accessible than before. Crime rates do their thing and go up. Attempts to stop it have all but ended in vain or a very low-level dealer getting shot. This is in tandem with the already high unemployment rates, and very high bills. People start abusing drugs in new and interesting ways to deal with life, more reported robberies of gas stations and the like, more news of soykaf like firefights in the street and weird soykaf managing to hit the street on an unprecedented scale. USA doesn't 'Collapse', it eats itself alive

>>24879 You have a president that tweets all kind of stuff as well. Your politic climate may have gotten much hotter but it seems to give individuals in power much more leeway to just say stuff then in other countries, here they word significant disapproval of a thing, may it be internal or foreign policy with a set sentence (we condemn sharply/most(!) sharply) that hasnt changed since many years. Just an anecdotal example but language seems very ritualised. Your politics are bombastic and hyperbolic in comparison. Still, looking at america it seems rather invincible, are the underlying structures, call them deepstate or not, not too powerful to keep the whole from drifting apart?

>>24881 >You have a president that tweets all kind of stuff as well. the difference is that the president says random bullshit, while this use of "nation-state" is definitely a political tack. You hear people, very normal people with very middle-of-the-road political beliefs, talking about it like it's a real possibility. >Still, looking at america it seems rather invincible, are the underlying structures, call them deepstate or not, not too powerful to keep the whole from drifting apart? they are very powerful but I think that they would not be able to stop a seperatist movement. Independence is a very deeply entrenched part of American culture, and mass brainwashing/media manipulation is not very effective. Yes I know about Cambridge Analytica -- and I think they overstate their effectiveness, just like every company does. More importantly I think a lot of the "deep state"(which is mostly transnational corporations) wouldn't really mind the collapse of the US. They can just use PMC's these days to get the same effect as a colonial war, they don't need the US military so much any more, they're already diversified worldwide. The only segments of the "deep state" that I think would resist is the military-industrial complex, which is highly adapted to imperial America and would fall apart if America fell apart. Like the rest of the federal government, it is too rigid and bureaucratic to be effective any more. Could seperatism lead to civil war? Maybe. California for instance, has enough leverage on the rest of the US that they might be able to avoid a civil war, if they play the game right. Other states might not be so lucky.

Maybe collapse of governance structures. https://slate.com/technology/2020/04/coronavirus-cyberpunk-science-fiction-government-politics.html

>>24833 >The upper/ruling class of course. The people who manage these markets. If you think we're going to just come right back from this because the fed adjusts some interest rates, you're delusional. We'll see if this turns on and off like a switch. Spoiler: it won't. You're like one of those people who believe the '08 recession ended because the stock market recovered and MSNBC or whatever said so. Everybody just got into precarity jobs and have way less earning power than they used to. The fed has not kept the vast majority of people safe. They've kept corporations and investors safe. Their job is to guard the global neoliberal economic system, not the actual household economics that supports the citizenry. They are fine with us living on the edge of destitution forever, slowly normalizing that until people like you actually believe it's prosperity. Okay? Why is it wrong if their businesses and therefore the entire economy overall grows with the cycle of booming and busting? I never said that we will come right out of it once the lockdown ends, it will definitely take time, but getting back to normal at the moment should be the main goal, the FED and federal government are the only reason why this crisis hasn't become another 1893 or 1929. I think that we recovered because the real GDP has been at heights not seen before, there are more people working than ever, and there has been no financial crisis since then. I'm not too sure about that, could you prove it? When unemployment is so low that it's arguably unhealthy, I doubt that the majority of those jobs are just disposable and low paying jobs. Are you angry about inflation? That is a natural part of every currency that it loses value over time, but the key is keeping it manageable, and it has been managed great throughout most of the 2010s, though it remains to be seen what effect the stimulus package and loans will have since they are still ongoing. Anon, they have kept the vast majority safe by protecting those businesses, if they simply allowed the businesses to fail, then it would mean that the entire economy would fail and everybody would go without a job and would lose their money, and not only that, they have also stopped people from being forcefully evicted and in some cases even stopped rent payments and of course are implementing the stimulus package, they are keeping EVERYBODY safe, from the impoverished poor to the wealthiest of people. >Circular logic. You're just saying that anything capitalism does is good because you assume capitalism is good. And the growth is concentrated only in one class in society. The vast majority of people have not experience real, material growth in their wealth or quality of life for decades. Our productivity has never been greater, but our adjusted wages are flat. If you're insulated from that, it's because you're fairly well off. And good for you. But you're out of touch with the realities of being poor in America. I'm not saying that 100% of what happens in capitalism is good, what I'm saying is that what happens in it is a natural cycle, and it has brought us a definite improvement in life in almost every way over time. In the figure, you can see that HDI and therefore the quality of life HAS been steadily been rising for quite a long time. I also disagree that wages have changed at all for ages, while the actual dollar amount has changed a lot, the actual purchasing power of it has remained relatively the same for about 60 years.

>>24884 In the end, my argument is just that, capitalism isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, and that you really need to check to see if what you're saying is actually correct. And the way I see it, there is no better alternative as it stands now.

>>24839 >Anarchy isn't real. It's a spook invented by X king to trick people into paying taxes and being controlled. It's to trick people into thinking the warlords via 'anarchy' are not the same lord ruling you right now. >This is anarchy. Capitalism in practice is anarchy, but anarchy isn't real. Only the feudal system. >It's all a bad mind game that only the easily fooled fall for. Anon, relax, I was saying "anarchic" as in chaos and no rules. >It's anarchy. They 'try' seemingly to stabilize things and fail. Hard. Every time. With everything. Even speed limits. Everyone breaks it because they refuse to agree with the corrupt man charging them not only tax to be ruled but even moar money to be given a ticket. The speed traps meant to suprise you so you get the ticket, them shortening the yellow light and putting cameras to catch you when it's safe to run the light but you still get a ticket anyway. >It. Is. A. Giant. Lie. >It's just the fuedal system. It's lords laughing and taking advantage of the ignorant masses. The ingorant masses thus revolt, civil unrest destroys the country. To avoid that they do 9-11 of which makes every intelligent person in the world with common sense put a hold on even trying to make the world a better place to avoid absolute dystopias. Leading to further stagnation because the feudal system deserves no science. >No flying cars for you. Um... what? Companies don't pick and choose which rules to follow, those who tried shared the fate of robber barons and Enron, which is to say they ended up stopped and ultimately dissolved. I'm really not getting what you're trying to say. >Never heard of him. I ignore existence of meaningless celebrities to take away their power. No hearing the rich and powerful, no power would they have over the masses. I am insulted by even hearing of this person. I will look it up thus now to even see what this person has to do with anything. >>17 hundreds guy >Ancient history does not apply to how the modern world behaves. Benjamin Franklin applies more because he said that people shouldn't trade freedoms for safety yet we just do that all the live long day like giant retards. Anon, at least do a little research beyond reading a few lines of text. He was one of the most if not the most important people behind the creation of the economic system today, and it has lived on for hundreds of years, he very much has had a hand in how the modern world behaves, from how an economy should be managed, to the role that the government should have in the lives of people and the economy. I think that you should really relax and think things over, you aren't being very coherent and you're clearly frustrated.

>>24882 >the difference is that the president says random bullshit, while this use of "nation-state" is definitely a political tack. You hear people, very normal people with very middle-of-the-road political beliefs, talking about it like it's a real possibility. You say that as if it's a new thing.

>>24847 >the argument is that many of the bad times that we experience are avoidable, but are not avoided, due purely to our organizational structures. That is partially true, in the past, we did go through many events that could have been prevented, the .com bubble and the 2008 recession were preventable, but it was more of an issue with the people running it than the structures itself, they became overconfident in themselves and deluded that the bubbles that were happening were booms and thought that nothing could go wrong and that they shouldn't interfere with it even when the signs were present to them, now that things have changed, I would say that we are in much better shape in these structures, one of the key things to do when managing these systems is to have the right people running them, and for a while that wasn't happening. >the safety net gets thinner every day. This is also a natural part of capitalism. No Anon, the safety net is not getting thinner every day, it is only growing, it's evident from how many safety measures have been put in place by the federal government almost every week to deal with the growing crisis. >pic related Believe it or not, once the lockdown ends, things will get better Anon.

>>24886 Congratulations. You responded to literal word salad. That post looks like it was written by a hidden markov model.

>>24890 It's not word salad. Word salad is: "saw the aardvark revive the beach-ball! Sacred stem without strife!" I meander without entirely making an essay out of my thought process. I tend to type out streams as if you could read my mind rather than proofreading and altering what I have read. Just because you can't put yourself into my shoes it seems incomprehensible to you, of which has a lot to do with why society is so so very awful. If it doesn't make sense to you you assume I'm mentally ill and without logic. You are wrong. Type out everything you think and see how stupid it can look yourself next time. >>24886 Chaos and no rules is what we are evolved to operate within the parameters of. We are that chaos. >do moar research I have no motivation to waste my time reading about people that failed to create a utopia. I already came and said what I wanted to. This conversation has gone too far. Not that I won't keep responding.

>>24891 >I meander without entirely making an essay out of my thought process. I tend to type out streams as if you could read my mind rather than proofreading and altering what I have read. Just because you can't put yourself into my shoes it seems incomprehensible to you, of which has a lot to do with why society is so so very awful. If it doesn't make sense to you you assume I'm mentally ill and without logic. You are wrong. Type out everything you think and see how stupid it can look yourself next time. >Chaos and no rules is what we are evolved to operate within the parameters of. We are that chaos. >I already came and said what I wanted to. This conversation has gone too far. Not that I won't keep responding. If this is your stream of consciousness and actual genuine and serious thoughts, then I think you need to re-evaluate yourself.

>>24887 it has more support now than before.

>>24889 >but it was more of an issue with the people running it than the structures itself, they became overconfident in themselves and deluded that the bubbles that were happening were booms and thought that nothing could go wrong and that they shouldn't interfere with it even when the signs were present to them the issue was that they were allowed to behave irresponsibly, and were not even punished for it. >now that things have changed, I would say that we are in much better shape in these structures, one of the key things to do when managing these systems is to have the right people running them, and for a while that wasn't happening. how did this change? What laws were passed that made a real estate bubble impossible? Are you aware that land prices are exploding across the US? >No Anon, the safety net is not getting thinner every day they literally are. People aren't able to get their unemployment checks. Banks are allowed to directly take their UBI payout for overdue payments. Most people don't have even the measly health insurance guaranteed by Obamacare, which has been constantly underfunded and attacked from all sides since it began. Social safety nets are incompatible with capitalism. They only exist because otherwise socialists would have pulled off a revolution. >it's evident from how many safety measures have been put in place by the federal government almost every week to deal with the growing crisis. too little too late. As always. >Believe it or not, once the lockdown ends, things will get better Anon. sure, eventually. Hopefully we will stop doing the braindead crap that we've been doing, such as letting parasites known as "landlords" and "banks" collect free money just for owning land.

>>24858 The reality dawns, none seems to care whta you intended the thread for, they just want the right posts to >quote before they can say what they wanted to say all this time. >>24891 >I meander without entirely making an essay out of my thought process. I tend to type out streams as if you could read my mind >Type out everything you think and see how stupid it can look yourself next time. That is the recipe for word salad, yes. You seem to have an attention span of a minute or two at best, in a constant state of hurry. Probably schizo, suffering withdrawal or on something. It's pretty obvious from the waifuposting as well that you're trying to uphold some internal image/narrative to yourself. You're fun, wanna join our IRC2020 server and be the new pet? >I have no motivation to waste my time reading about people that failed to create a utopia. Their attempts are of value. Intelligent and with effort, there's lessons to be learned yu no.

>>24915 I actually used to use IRC a lot a few years ago. I use adiIRC lately. Also, I 'let' the psych majors diagnose me as schizoaffective. They're wrong though. I am just trying to get on SSI with what might work. I'd probably get kicked out of the IRC though for talking about how all drugs should be legal or how much I like large objects up the butt since the 9th grade and other related or non-related health problems and or how much I want to kill my father too often and thus be kicked out or muted. As dead as IRC is if muted things get pretty dull, fast. >>24892 As a militant agnostic I am always reevaluating my life as my very memories could be an illusion, but then I realize no one else is doing it and seemingly an instinct of a desire for fairness makes me stop being so zenmaster-esque.

>>24915 >>yu no that's hilarious by the by

>>24980 >yu no yu no comrade.

isnt this very telling of the american decline https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/16/g7-backing-for-who-leaves-trump-isolated-at-virtual-summit USA tries to strongarm the WHO by pulling funding but in doing so alone is exposed as not really having that ability to strong arm anything so much anymore

>>24987 Americans wish it was a strongarming effort, but it's just another isolationist measure, very harmful in the long term for them.

I would make a wild and out there bet that the current decline of the liberal world order and private entities doing coups and winning elections around the world is blowback from the drug policy regime where drugs are kept illegal but always available and traffickers protected by CIA and the trade used a piggybank for covert operations, as this has led to increasing amount of capital flight from the public into the darkness from where it is increasingly controlling the world.

>>24692 Maybe have a look at French "collapsologie" theory. It's not focused on the US but since the US is part of industrial civilization you might get some insights. The biggest name in that area is Pablo Servigne.

>>24752 and yet; China figured it out

>>24692 >economic bad. my country's biggest trading partner is the US. but i guess we can switch to a less cancerous alternative or china >foreign policy don't know. my country is peaceful but the countries surrounding it aren't as much. plus we have no army so we can only hope that nothing bad happens. >cultural fuarrrk US i hate their the cancer that they have exported unto the world and if the US collapses i hope their soykafty culture does too.

>>24752 not really. pre-industrial china was considered a soykafhole by many at some point. india just needs to industrialize more and modernize, just like china did (although china killed tens of millions in the process)

>>30436 To be fair: Any industrializing country kills people, it's kind of a side effect of industrialisation in general. The speed and size of the contry are just factors.

>>25639 This is a virus and the dying organism that hosts it.

>>24692 >I'm looking for a non-US perspective on the possible collapse of the US empire. It's all going to go to soykaf in the worst possible way and I'm going to be extremely unhappy until I die. Things will radically shift toward the scenario in 1984 except a few details might change e.g EUSOC instead of INGSOC with China at the head openly buttfucking us all. I doubt we'll have any full scale wars because people are sheep now and they would just flee their country unless you force an exploding collar on them but I doubt they'd make better soldiers than the average Chinese mainlander who has no feelings at all. We are castrated countries competing in a global market built on ruthlessness with countries who drown female infants because they're a burden.

>>30449 Id rather argue most of the world will become low tech 3rd world country like with shanties, food shortages, drugs, gangs almost everywhere. Meanwhile some huge megacities where the populace is computer controlled like in china but with actual neural manipulations, like bci, transcranial magnetic stimulation and forced drug injections. Its going to be a lot like thx-1138 or logans run where most of humanity will be controlled and trapped in self running systems as meat robots, while the majority of the world will be like mad max where the leftovers fight to survive constantly. Id also rather argue its going to be the UN and its owners that officially is going to call the shots and running things totalitarian with an iron fist. Id argue the UN built up the chinks to get exploit them into their own self destruction and let the rest of the world clean up the mess then crown themselfs masters of the world.

The USA is going to go full fash before it collapses. It's already in the cards. Trump isn't a fascist, but he is paving the road for one. The collapse is going to come when they inevitably lose a war they start. It'll take a few decades no doubt, but the writing is on the wall.

>>30522 I don't know anymore. I imagined this kind of backlash but today I am not sure. People are actually getting cancelled not just for misdeeds but by association, and there doesn't seem to be a framework supporting all the Natzee people who have to work in Natzee companies. Anybody who needs money to survive or has a family will just drink the cool-aid and play along, especially considering that the vast majority of consumers are young and young people are sheep who care more about being accepted right here and now than their future. I can't blame them for not standing up to the insanity. It doesn't even matter if it's all fabricated or grossly misrepresented, social media has shaped public perception in the US one way or the other and it's been used to enforce this weird totalitarian policing so damn efficiently. A whole bunch of old people died from Corona too. Corona was so great at further separating the older generation from the younger that it might as well have been engineered for it. Or maybe the brains behind the media campaign were just that good. Either way there will be no right-wing reaction, only a slow descent into a Big Brother scenario with full support of the people. Not that I would've liked to have actual extreme right wingers in power, but it's sad that people have lost all their will to fight.

>>30539 >Either way there will be no right-wing reaction, only a slow descent into a Big Brother scenario with full support of the people. Not that I would've liked to have actual extreme right wingers in power, but it's sad that people have lost all their will to fight. fighting over which overlords will rule them is hardly worth doing.

how to get qt collapse gf :(

>>30522 >>30539 One of the defining aspects of fascism (which differentiates it from your usual authoritarian dictatorship) is its mobilization of the masses and the idea (or pretension) of a national renewal/revival/revolution/justice. The problem with this is that the self-proclaimed fascists of today are inert (though maybe a bunch of nazis being too 89IQ to function isn't really a "problem"). The successful fascists made an effort to court the youth and to channel violence (Giovinezza and all that), while your usual extremist masturbates over old/dead men in between insisting some random hate crime was actually a false flag. And when they do try to act politically all they can do is fall in line with the usual republican party script. They come off as inert despite all their bravado. While not right-wing, cancel culture is the the closest analogue we have for the idea of aggressive mobilization and the assertion of "moral" justice. They attack in the name of progress even if all it does is aggressively enforce existing societal norms. All it's missing is a ruthless leader willing to channel it and a more defined enemy. Then things would get really fuarrrking spooky.

>1. Weakening and increasingly isolationist USA If were assuming this means a Russia 1991 tier scenario where they become so weak economically that their basically forced to shut themselves out international affairs then we see an Independent Europe / Strong european Union to counteract Russia. We see basically all of East Asia asides from India get added into China's co-prosperity sphere or whatever and the Sino-Russian alliance breakdown with India probably joining Russia. Monroe Doctrine may hold and goverments in the americas may stay loyal to the US out of pure economic dependence but we could also see anti-american actors like Nicaragua, Cuba and Venezuela with the help of someone like china causing a domino effect all across the western hemisphere. >2. Total collapse of the federal government Russian Civil War / Chinese Warlord period before they all either unified behind the CCP or KMT. Im Australian >1. Economic effect, this one is fairly straightforward. We are very close with america economically. Them crashing out global affairs would pretty much turn us into a chinese vassal. >2. Foreign policy effect, the effect of US military withdrawal and new regional powers arising as more important to ones foreign policy than the USA China probably funds Communist party revolutions all across east and South East Asia and signs agreements with their new goverments. Australia and NZ sign trade deals and alliances with them out of pure necessity. Taiwan falls. South Korea may not 'Fall' but a peace treaty and reunification bent in favour of the CCP/WPK/North Korea is implemented. >3. Cultural effect, ultimately this will change too and I don't just mean the lower level effects like what media we consume on our screens and what values we uphold in everyday life but more importantly the old international institutions created in the American century crumbling such as the UN, WTO, WHO, World Bank and perhaps new ones arising to take their place, possibly changing jurisprudence around the world. Were a very Americanised society at the moment in Australia but we also have people listening to K/J/CPop and all that stuff as well so i assume if america withdrew we would begin to borrow more from asia overtime

>>30874 build a homestead, look for survivors.

america has been collapsing since 1991, when they tried to force a war on Iraq and failed, thus they forced sanctions on the country instead till the invasion of 2003, that country, baathist Iraq, is what kept the middle east stable and out of terrorist orgs, it used to be part of the global economy till everything changed immediately, the empire of america is now spending way more money in the middle east in order to clean the mess they caused after removing saddam, many problems that would affect the influence of the west negatively in that oil rich region whether when it comes to the iranian influence, the terrorist militias or the remaining regimes, look at lebanon now, it used to be called the Switzerland of the middle east, now it's a total mess, due to the weak govts that accepted the iranians into their country, due to iran getting stronger using the new Iraqi govt, due to, again, the americam invasion, this is nothing but an exaiieemple, now the US is forced to decrease the iranian influence there, spending way way more money in that rather than helping their economy, so this is only exclusive for the middle east, this region caused for these miserable years in america, nothing but useless military advancements for wamerica has been collapsing since 1991, when they tried to force a war on Iraq and failed, thus they forced sanctions on the country instead till the invasion of 2003, that country, baathist Iraq, is what kept the middle east stable and out of terrorist orgs, it used to be part of the global economy till everything changed immediately, the empire of america is now spending way more money in the middle east in order to clean the mess they caused after removing saddam, many problems that would affect the influence of the west negatively in that oil rich region whether when it comes to the iranian influence, the terrorist militias or the remaining regimes, look at lebanon now, it used to be called the Switzerland of the middle east, now it's a total mess, due to the weak govts that accepted the iranians into their country, due to iran getting stronger using the new Iraqi govt, due to, again, the americam invasion, this is nothing but an exaiieemple, now the US is forced to decrease the iranian influence there, spending way way more money in that rather than helping their economy, so this is only exclusive for the middle east, this region caused for these miserable years in america, nothing but useless military advancements for what? no one knows specifically, but if america maybe spent money on their economy, healthcare and education instead i think we wouldn't have seen the country unstable enough to even control a virus with ~2% death rate, hat? no one knows specifically, but if america maybe spent money on their economy, healthcare and education instead i think we wouldn't have seen the country unstable enough to even control a virus with ~2% death rate,

>>30896 >Monroe Doctrine may hold and goverments in the americas may stay loyal to the US out of pure economic dependence This point could be disputed. In many countries of the Americas, China has already surpassed the US as the main economic partner. The stronger ties are probably cultural, but these are slowly being eroded as well. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can add something to this. >China probably funds Communist party revolutions all across east and South East Asia and signs agreements with their new goverments. This is what China is doing in Africa for his Belt and Road. They sign agreements with the governments, but rather than funding revolutions, they don't care about government systems, unlike the US which "forces" countries to adopt democratic systems (not making a value judgment here). Funding revolutions would destabilize the countries where China is investing and that's a no-no.

>>30905 Monroe doctrine is weakening today(along with the US's grip on the world) but the fact is that the US has basically declared itself as the owners of the Americas and have forced other countries in the region to submission for over a hundred years. >>30896 indeed... people talking about collapse like it's new. It's not new. All great empires have been destroyed.

>>30449 >I doubt we'll have any full scale wars because people are sheep now and they would just flee their country unless you force an exploding collar on them but I doubt they'd make better soldiers than the average Chinese mainlander who has no feelings at all. Do you know how hard US and EU soldiers train? They have no feelings either. Getting rid of aversion to killing is standard practice in all military training regimes. >We are castrated countries competing in a global market built on ruthlessness with countries who drown female infants because they're a burden. lmao, the US has performed mass sterilization and genocide before. They also have no problem bombing civilians and torturing prisoners for sport. If your entire measure of how powerful a nation is is by how ruthless it is, the US is still probably top of the pile. Dunno about Europe but Germany, France, Britain, and Russia all have dark pasts that could be resurrected in an instant. Besides, who is this "we"? From my point of view, it is no worse to be ruled by some external power than it is to be ruled by a local kingpin. Both are soykaf. >>30489 >Its going to be a lot like thx-1138 or logans run where most of humanity will be controlled and trapped in self running systems as meat robots, while the majority of the world will be like mad max where the leftovers fight to survive constantly. I mean, that's pretty much already the case. Thing is it doesn't work too well because humans keep trying to mess with it for shortsighted personal gain. As more and more functions are computerized this may stop being an issue, however human society might simply disintegrate before then. In capitalistic/neoliberal countries, people are already on the edge of killing each other all the time. There is no unity whatsoever. We're one bad famine away from complete breakdown of all social institutions.

>>24692 I'm not an expert but i will try to say my opinions >1. Economic effect, this one is fairly straightforward. Mexico will be very affected, usa is the principal economic ally, but maybe china will start take over (this is happening for all latin american country) >2. Foreign policy effect, the effect of US military withdrawal and new regional powers arising as more important to ones foreign policy than the USA Usa rules Mexico, and without it China will take his role >3. Cultural effect, ultimately this will change too and I don't just mean the lower level effects like what media we consume on our screens and what values we uphold in everyday life but more importantly the old international institutions created in the American century crumbling such as the UN, WTO, WHO, World Bank and perhaps new ones arising to take their place, possibly changing jurisprudence around the world. O don't know this, i think this will not change

>>30951 >3 I can see Chinese media companies going out of their way to bail out movie/game studios so as to keep major IPs churning out the usual. A lot of mainstream movies already have their content restructured to dig into the Chinese market. Actually being owned by the Chinese would make them go into full-on propaganda territory (or at least even more than before).

>>24713 There are alternative theories as to how oil and gas deposits form. It's theorized that the Earth's mantle could possible generate huge amounts of methane gas. Anyone with extensive refining knowledge would know hydrocarbon accessibility only requires a single molecular stock to generate all the needed options. Fracking is controversial, but entirely misunderstood. When done improperly it's a disaster but if done right it's cleaner than anything we've done before.

>>30964 when done properly it is also not profitable. >>30961 >Actually being owned by the Chinese would make them go into full-on propaganda territory (or at least even more than before). to be honest I've watched some Chinese propaganda movies and they're pretty good. More entertaining than American propaganda movies like Rambo. Check out Let The Bullets Fly.

It's like the Fall of Rome, history repeats itself, and any country that becomes an empire is doomed to collapse. The US/British Empire is just another kingdom that turned into a republic, and then an empire, and eventually collapses into fiefdoms. A fitting end for a state which prided themselves on re-enacting Rome.

>>30890 >One of the defining aspects of fascism (which differentiates it from your usual authoritarian dictatorship) is its mobilization of the masses and the idea (or pretension) of a national renewal/revival/revolution/justice. what do you think Donald Trump is doing... >>30899 all the good spots for homesteading are already taken. I think I'd rather buy land in some small town. Grow mushrooms and fix computers for the locals. That kind of thing. I think I have the social skills to charm them, old people tend to like me. >>30912 >All great empires have been destroyed eerily reminiscent of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVWupFBkA8 (the old man is eventually taken by American soldiers in the movie) >>32137 and as we all know, the higher they rise the harder they fall. This dark age could last a thousand years.

>>32138 >This dark age could last a thousand years. I don't see humanity entering another Dark Age unless the US or any other major country willing to take advantage of the collapse of the US will make some fatal missteps and cause an all-out long-lasting world war or, worse yet, an actual nuclear war. As I see it, once the US starts losing its global influence, a number of regional powers will emerge all around the world; we can see this process taking place right now with Turkic and South-East Asian countries, and it's something Europe and Eastern European countries have been attempting to do for decades now. China may or may not take steps to become the new hegemony, but I doubt it will. Regardless, its influence will be a major one, if it won't be actively meddling in other countries' affairs via political, economic and military influence, it's still going to be the biggest economy, and whatever trends, cultural, societal, political, economic it has, other countries will try to adopt or at least mimic. That sounds awful if you ask me. That's just my thoughts. I'm a bad fortune teller.

>>32139 eh, those things come and go... in a few hundred years I'm sure the situation will be unrecognizeable. I think really it's the whole model of the petro-state falling apart. Any state which continues to rely on oil and financial markets is going to feel the strain.

You wanna now what really brings me hope about America? The reason why I came here? It's because so much terrible things are said about it. Nobody in my country of origin speaks poorly about it, but I did some digging and found terrible things. I think every country is terrible, but in America, we know it's terrible.

>>32147 >Nobody in my country of origin speaks poorly about it, but I did some digging and found terrible things. this is exactly how most people are about America. I mean most people think the country has lots of problems or is "going to hell" but they think that the *idea* of America is fundamentally good. Also most people don't really know that their country did genocide or war crimes, and are hostile to people who say so.

>>32148 >but they think that the *idea* of America is fundamentally good. you're a fuarrrking retard.

>>32148 The ideas behind "America" include: cronyism, slavery (to this very day), wage slavery (as if it needed to be distinguished), exploitation of the poor and marginalized, and so on. The "idea" that the "idea of America" is good is you being too retarded to pay attention.

>>32160 I never said I personally like the idea of America. It's a soykafhole and always has been. But a majority of the people living here do.

It's happening! https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-now-worlds-largest-economy-we-shouldnt-be-shocked-170719 https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1203552.shtml https://www.ipsos.com/en/global-happiness-study-2020

>>33817 >Happiness in a coronavirus world >Happiest is China That seems legit.

>>33817 The economy bit and film bits aren't surprising, it was just a matter of time. However I'm extremely hesitant to trust happiness stats from a place like China, might as well trust NK propaganda. >Argentina and BR increase Why.

>>33821 american tech firms really like to replace their local workforce with remote Argentine workers. Since everyone is a remote worker now they don't really have a reason to keep their more costly American workers. considering Argentina has been in a depression since before 2007 I guess any new opportunity is going to make people happier.

>>33823 That does make sense. Still BR is weird what with being really fuarrrked with corona and people really not liking Bolsonaro.

lol I love how the cold war was just a delayed double kill, this is such a farce

>>33895 the USSR pulled the pin, got shot, and now the grenade is about to blow up on the US

I miss the Internet where you were normal >>24979

I know this my post is not about the US, but it's been bothering me and I want to hear opinions. My intention wasn't to dox myself, but any person with 2 brain cells would guess that I live in Austria. Lately the situation has been grave, the government is enacting more and more restrictions, additionally trying to further their reach. Starting with November we started yet another (quite soykaftily planned) lockdown. But what really ignites the fuse is a recent incident, about two hours ago. There has been a shootout, reported to be an act of terrorism, with apparently seven people dead (I can find conflicting accounts, but at least a person has to have died). The news spread like literal wildfire, the media started broadcasting the news in one and a half hour, and many outlets are simply showing clips off of twitter, where are the people that were in the vicinity are uploading status reports on the situation. I was aware people actually have the ability to spread instants like these extremely rapidly, but I am amazed just how fast these news have spread. You can easily find 20 clips showing different perspectives. https://nitter.net/RenovaMidia/status/1323359707764006912 https://nitter.net/GHG19hr/status/1323344876717703168?s=08 https://old.reddit.com/r/Austria/comments/jmuda9/wien_gro%C3%9Feinsatz_nach_sch%C3%BCssen_am_schwedenplatz/ I am really sick and disgusted, I loathe the idea of violence for the sake of religion. But I think the actual consequences will reach much farther. There has been a political divide between people who think the government should be more authoritative to handle the issues of our country and people who fear giving the government more control. I'm certain basically anyone who browses lainchan has thought about this conundrum. To disclose my views, I would for example never vouch for contact tracing, because any systems that are put in place are sure not to be abolished after they have served their purpose. Even for instances of actual terror, I have a hard time justifying some of the things that are being proposed. This is already extreme for some, who would go as far as to say that I am basically letting people die. In the past, it was easier to try and argue rationally how increasing CCTV surveillance for example does not actually equate to less terrorism, and there are citations that can be made to show the ineffectiveness of CCTV surveillance. This is only one concrete example of many. With our political landscape as it is, I worry what is going to happen. I am just sick to my stomach. There footage of people dying where I have walked about plenty of times, lives have been lost forever. This is almost certainly going to make our lives even more inconvenient and people on the authoritative side are going to push this issue further. The already weakening force against the abolishment of any privacy we have left is going to have a hard time arguing in the face of this and corona. I don't want to suggest conspiracies, but this is truly remarkable. People have been told to stay at home as much as they can. But this point was really stressed during the reports of this incident. The timing is literally perfect. This will also linger for a while, people might actually begin to stay at home now. I really can't tell what is actually right anymore, but this is a concerningly unstable situation.

>>34457 So many libertarians have just become fascists and national socialists, because of having to come to face this reality that a utopia isn't going to just sprout out of nowhere when there is so much rot in the society. You will first need an "iron gardener" a dictator to spill a lot of blood, to clean, in order to have that gentle society in the end. Libya and Gaddafi are a good example of this, started out as a harsh dictator and then settled into making a socialist paradise for his people. He was assassinated only for the latter, when he started to give his people freedom.

>>34457 This has been discussed intense in jan already. Economy has been on the course of collapse for a long time and they kept it on live support printing increasingly more money, the war on virus is a perfect excuse for a hard reset. And while at it you can push new taxes & restrictions which already happened at the start of this year. For example theres a new tax for leaving the eu with your company. They want 25% of all your assets now. Its an indirect admittance of were about to fuarrrk you real hard so we gonna make sure running is not an option either.