Reluctant alphaism

I'm aware of how stupid and LARPy this sounds, which is why I'm posting it on an anon image board. Anyway, within my group of friends, I am the alpha male. Before me, another one of my friends was, but he just left us entirely and no longer talks to us. Recently, I've noticed that my attitude towards people has changed a lot. Whenever a more masculine guy interacts with us as a group, I always feel threatened and uneasy, even if he's a nice guy. Today, I went to a barbecue at my friend's house (he goes to a college in another city, so I don't get to see him that often) and a cousin of his that was 6'8" was there. We were all just hanging out and relaxing, but I couldn't help but dislike him. A few months ago when I wasn't the "alpha" of the group, I would have been able to relax around him, but now all I can do is feel uncomfortable and awful. Does anyone else have this problem?

yeah its called being insecure and antisocial. >cue calm explanation about how you understand what im saying but its not that in an attempt to feel validated. in all seriousness ive always been like this and now i dont hang out with guys at all. i always say its because "i just dont like guys" which is partly true but its also because i dislike any kind of competition and guys for whatever reason like bonding over competitiveness. even in conversation it can be some dick waving contest about who knows more and can talk more. The minute i hear it I ignore them. or like the other day theres a girl that always sits next to me in one of my classes and i really like what she has to say cause the class is based around the country shes from so she has unique insight and this dude took her seat and i was so fuarrrking mad that when we had to do discussions i completely ignored him and just turned around to talk to the girl instead. this isnt me being an "alpha male" though, im just being very petty and maybe because I didnt have a dad I didnt have that male bonding or whatever. when I did have guy friends id always test anyone knew that was coming in but thats just me being antisocial and distrusting. for me these are things to work on, like at some point im going to have to start treating guys like human beings. and also the "testing" thing is dumb and childish, like its a weird overly protective thing and we are adults now and theres no need for me to be so defensive. If my friend thinks someone is cool and brings them over im not doing anyone any favors by silently judging and testing them, worst case I wont talk until they leave and then when my friends ask why itl be some dumb vague reason like "she sounded disingenuine" or "i didnt like their tone when they asked me that question". be selective with your love of course, but a lack of love or connection doesnt mean you have to be disrespectful or bitter towarda someone. its not always black and white.

I cannot think of any possible solution besides seeking therapy. You sound like a 10 year old who acquired all his social skills on imageboards and modern warfare queues, but the situations you describe seem like adult activities. So either you're trolling or you legitimately need therapy, in the sense that you're unable to function around others in a healthy way.

>>13150 Insecure egomania is part of oversocialization that Theodore Kaczynski talked about. Go out in the world and try to help other people by using your "alphaness" for good and solving some real life problem. See how hard it will be. See what troubles you will have to face. Then when you come back you will have humility in your heart.

It seems more appropriate to say that you have anxiety issues surrounding your viewing the world through a particular lens that assigns "masculinity" (already a problematic concept for a few reasons) levels to everyone you think of. This is not the only lens one can use. If you allow yourself to think on the level of an animal, perhaps it isn't surprising that you could end up developing anxieties on the level of an animal. Unless you're interacting with pic related, I don't even think "alpha male" is a meaningful or useful term. It may be the case that humans are just complicated animals, but computers are just complicated machines; trying to understand your laptop by analogy to a bicycle will probably prove to be a less-than-illuminating exercise. Anxieties are, at least to a degree, products of our perspectives. Widening the perspective can destroy the anxiety. In your case, I think you'd benefit from realizing that your group doesn't really have an "alpha." As the individual who posted the intellectual arrogance thread (>>9814), though, I can't help but feel sympathy for you in your situation. The lainons in that thread helped me to see some of the flaws in how I was conceiving of my relationship to others; you may be able to get something out of it as well if you generalize the points being made.

>>13170 Just within the group. I'm not an alpha in general.

>>13188 For lack of a better word. They regularly ask me to make decisions for the group. Do I just need new friends?

>>13168 Yeah, I've always been an antisocial retard.

>>13151 >yeah its called being insecure and antisocial. yes, I'm aware of that. It's that these feelings are new and very different from anything else I've felt that's the problem, not the feelings themselves. I like to think I do a pretty good job of repressing them. I should also note that I'm only an insecure retard when I'm in a group, never in one-on-one interactions.

>>13221 Well, then, I'm not sure how being the decision maker relates to feeling anxious around tall guys unless you have an underlying framework that connects the two (like, for instance, an improperly animalistic conception of human relationships).

>>13224 I wouldn't say that it's an "improperly" animalistic conception. Even though humans do have the capacity for intelligent thought, that does not mean that instinct (at least, in a healthy person) disappears at all. Having evolved from lower animals, to feel unease from being around a person who is physically superior to you is natural, and in line with any concept of dominance.

>>13170 No, it's not. The entire oversocialization segment was about a lack of ability to rebel, and the theft of societal values to simulate a feeling of such.

>>13228 "No, it's not" as in "Theodore didn't speak of insecure egomania specifically" or ?

>>13227 Humans, though, are capable of "reprogramming" their impulses in a way that animals are not through the application of higher thought. In this case, I think OP needs to realize that physical size is not the best indicator of the threat that someone poses under current social conditions, among other things. Honestly, I think that cases like OP's probably have more to do with watching too many nature documentaries than relying on old instincts, by which I mean to say that we're dealing with a mentally-constructed (through the use of human faculties) approximation of how humans "ought to think" as animals rather than the lower-level programming that constitutes how we actually think as animals. Perhaps that's a mistake on my part.

>>13229 Yes. To say that it’s oversocialization is one thing, but claim it as your own. Kaczynski never said that.

>>13232 I(op) am the only one replying to you, just to be clear. I do not watch nature documentaries, and while I am aware that humans are capable of “reprogramming”, you should remember that that is harmful and unhealthy, and the general term for such is “brainwashing”. In addition to this, physical size and athleticism is and has always been an indicator of a threat. If it were not, bouncers would be entirely useless. However, what I am referring to is my newfound discomfort in these situations exclusively when I am with my specific friends which have taken on a beta nature in regards to me. I can still have friendly interactions that aren’t forced if I’m by myself, and I actually like to be around more athletic men, as they tend to be able to keep up with me in terms of energy, where my less athletic friends tend to be lethargic.

>>13150 >>13234 Sounds like your specific problem isn't with inheriting the big boy pants from your ex-friend, it's the angry baboon reflex you keep getting when you see another big boy. I'd suggest reading some of Geoff Thompson's work, he's a self-help guru who used to be a bouncer, and Jack Donovan, who's written extensively on the dynamics of the male group.

>>13234 I contest the idea that any reprogramming is harmful. What makes you think so? If you're willing to break down your muscles and rebuild them stronger, what's the problem with breaking down old frameworks and replacing them? Also, "brainwashing" generally refers to a particular social procedure that pressures individuals to conform to group standards. I think it's hardly the same thing when an individual "freely" (inasmuch as anything we do is free) chooses to change his/her mind. Physical size is a good indicator of the threat that someone would pose if it came down to a physical fight. That's a big if under current conditions, given the rates of incidence of violent confrontation and the equalizing effects of modern weaponry. Realistically, you should be more nervous when you ride in a car than when you look at a large man. The way that you see large men as especially relevant threats and feel the need to divide individuals in your group into "alpha" and "beta" suggests to me that your problem is your reliance on a paradigm that is out-of-touch with the reality in front of you. You want me to give you a solution within that paradigm, but I suggest that you change the paradigm instead. It is easier to cut the Gordian Knot than it is to untangle it. By the way, I didn't literally mean that you watch nature documentaries necessarily. I'm referring to overexposure to popular theories regarding animal behavior.

>>13236 I really shouldn’t have to explain why brainwashing is harmful. Also, if I have to do so to conform to today’s heavily unnatural society, wouldn’t it be better to change the circumstances rather than my own mind?

>>13236 Come to think of it, the relaxation one observes in many domesticated dogs upon being introduced to a stranger demonstrates how these thoughts and feelings can be altered even in lower creatures. You may think that a dog has lost something valuable in losing its lupine instincts, but it's only appropriate for the dog to adapt to its new scenario, specifically that of a symbiotic relationship with humans. This works on two levels: the dog truly has less to fear from humans than before, and not being inclined to lash out at strangers allows it to blend into its social environment in a way that no wild wolf could. As a human, you are a creature capable of "domesticating" itself. I don't see any reason not to take advantage of this capability.

>>13237 Once again, I don't think what I'm suggesting is quite the same as brainwashing. It's more like I'm asking you to stop being frightened by ghosts created by your own imagination. You seem to think that "alphas" and "betas" exist on the streets, while I'm suggesting that they really only exist in your classification scheme. If your mind looks like I think it does, then changing the circumstances to fit it would leave us with a barely tribal society fighting endless skirmishes with sticks. Perhaps your conceptions aren't quite so primitive as that, but it seems to me that, using my ghost metaphor from before, you're asking why you shouldn't construct a haunted house instead of dispelling your belief in ghosts.

>>13238 Dogs are absolutely lower than wolves. Why would I want to lower myself for the sake of convenience?

>>13239 It’s quite literally choosing to change circumstances that I dislike instead of changing my own nature to deal with them. Ghosts aren’t real, residual pre-industrial instincts are.

>>13237 >unnatural I just noticed this. What's unnatural about our society, exactly? Are you suggesting that it has come about through processes that are somehow unnatural? This would seem to conflict with your very own idea that humans are essentially animals. If by "natural," you mean "primitive," then fine, but that's a different idea. >>13241 >Dogs are absolutely lower than wolves. What makes you think so? >for the sake of convenience Not only for convenience, but also for the sake of aligning yourself with the true and current nature of things; your fears should reflect statistically-relevant threats >>13242 Ghosts and the fear of ghosts can be "real" from a phenomenological perspective, which is, it seems, the only perspective from which your anxieties can be real. >residual This is a good word. I might prefer "vestigial." Once again, though, I'm still not entirely certain that you're feeling true "pre-industrial instincts" instead of manufactured anxieties stemming from a constructed pseudo-pre-industrial framework.

>>13150 first. do you really believe in the whole alpha beta thing? i thought that's what incels and 10 yos believed. i'm not sure if you are looking for an advice or not, but i think a therapy could help... maybe CBT? don't know, i'm no expert. but it could help you see that most of those fears are irrational and just because someone's more "masculine" it doesn't threaten your social status.

Maybe you should compare notes with the guy who started a thread just to tell us how much smarter than us he was. Or the guy who kept telling us he was a Renaissance Man, despite refusing to move out of his parents' house when they asked him to. Maybe you should form a special secret club for superior people, and just go around explaining patiently to each other why you're better than the other two.

>>13258 >Maybe you should compare notes with the guy who started a thread just to tell us how much smarter than us he was. The fact that this poster is referencing me as though I haven't already posted in this thread specifically identifying myself as the intellectual arrogance guy suggests that he/she hasn't even read the discussion until now, being content to simply insult people uncritically. >>13247 >>13251 These types showed up in my thread, too, OP. They're apparently incapable of sympathizing with these kinds of problems, as though they don't believe it's possible for someone to feel a certain way while questioning the validity of that feeling. They can apparently only conceive of posts like yours as bragging rather than legitimate requests for assistance. I suggest that you ignore them. They apparently have nothing useful to say, or if they do, they're not expressing it in a useful manner.

>>13262 I get your point, but you should also keep in mind that people have limited patience and the way you guys express yourselves is horrible and makes you look difficult to deal with. While i agree that people who get tired of threads like this should just hide them, you guys should also try to express your ideas better.

>>13263 >you guys should also try to express your ideas better. It seems to me that the ideas themselves are offensive to people, not the presentation. I'm not sure there's any neat way to express something like "I'm upset because I think I'm smarter than other people" or "I'm nervous because I'm the alpha male of my group."

>>13151 as this poster who implied some mean things about OP I dont believe hes "masturbating" or looking for an ego boost at all. My first few things were honestly a joke/said upon first read. I think OP is just using chan language he knows and is trying to establish he isn't a complete social idiot because he wants new advice. If he made this post without all the fluff he might get a lot of super generic replies that assume the absolute worst about his character and situation. Obvioisly, cause even with it people are assuming the worst. I think it's misguided but makes sense. Misguided because people will always assume the worst, and also because some of the generic advice is generic because its right and you need to hear it over and over again. I notice a lot of people here like to paint common problems as unique ones because they want a magic answer, I even used to do this. Depression becomes how you and only you uniquely see the pointlessness or bad in life, and antisocialness and distrust becomes being an alpha male. Theres a concept of universal beauty, that we all feel beauty the same but the feeling is brought about differently. As a result we often firmly believe our beauty is unique to us, we want to elaborate and fluff out our beautiful experiences because we dont believe the other person truly can appreciate it if we just said "it was beautiful". I think the same could be said for suffering or isolation or whatever may be the root of the problem. OP wants you to uniquely understand his antisocialness and insecurity (or to get more to a universal source, fear), when in actuality those are things that at the core we all understand the same and just in different situations. OP doesnt trust in our suffering I feel like, fairly though because likewise we dont trust in his. But still I ask of OP>>13150 to think about the core of the issue. Remove all the circumstantials, I feel like you only responded to the antagonistic parts of my post and not the rest. I often make assumptions by the way, but think of them more as questions, im just probing to see what fits and doesnt. You seem to be insecure about this position of leader, what are you afraid will happen if you lose it? Also how real is it? Not to say your delusional, far from it, I trust that you do take control a lot in your friend group. Still would others recognize you as the leader and clearly say so, or is it more of an unwilling thing. Do they often challenge you (even if in weak ways you dont see a sa threat). OP while it may be larpy, this kind of primitive alpha male perception youve laid out shouldnt be ignored. Especially if its a lens you dont normally view friendships through. Did you always in your friend groups identify "alphas" and make hierarchies and to this extent? While we might want to assume this is all in OP's head and its all a self created problem, perhaps something about his friends behaviour is pushing him fully adopt this alpha male view. Maybe he is subconsciously noticing unfaithfulness or wavering of his friends and reacting defensively. OP has the self awareness to see that it sounds "LARP"y so no need to continue harassing him and it also shows to me this an intrusive thought or perspective that hed rather not have, but he cant ignore its there.

You seem to just need maturity. The process of obtaining maturity can be hastened by going to therapy or forcing yourself to go into social situations without the same pressures you find in your social circle, without the need to feel superior to your peers. I agree with the guy above that you're just using the language you have, that doesn't make it any less pathetic though and people shouldn't pat you on the head as if this 10 year old behavior was normal. It isn't, you can't understand much less control your basic learned behavior (LEARNED, not instinctive, even fuarrrking walking isn't instinctive motherfucker you think being insecure around tall people is?). Imagine you have a son who calls everyone a nigger, it's not intended as an offense, it's something he learned in certain social circles that can be used innocently, however he should also learn context and distinction as he grows up, not everybody will view his internal jokes as innocent, nor should they. This is the equivalent of what you're doing and being (rightfully) criticized for.

OP doesn't want help with anything, OP has not taken anyone's advice seriously, as OP feels he is the sharpest tool in the shed. OP is just here to preen his feathers in front of an audience.

>>13241 dogs are lower than wolves, yet wolves are hunted almost to extinction by humans while dogs have formed an inseperable symbiotic relationship with them? Learn you some evolutionary strategies, dogs are way higher up in the food chain than wolves.

>>13281 i agree but don't agree. my way of viewing it is this, you can't go backwards and live in primal times. no one is going to forget society, even in a collapse it will eventually be built up again. We can work forwards and change things and look for alternatives but it won't just dissapear. And one thing that's occurred in society is that we've found when a few things such as brute strength and sexuality are all thats being selected for in nature, we lose out on a diversity of other mental, spiritual, etc. strengths. When we protect the "weak" we become stronger. We don't know what might be seen as a weakness at one point in time could in another time be absolutely necessary. Weakness and strength is mutable, and to pick one specific time or one specific species of animal and use that as the quota is narrow minded. There will be a time when being the wolf is superior, there will be times when being the dog is superior.

>>13282 The wolf is superior to the dog in every way. If taught from birth, it is as intelligent and more loyal than the dog. The wolf's world is gone, but that does not mean it is gone forever. Wait, and hope.