Tulpas

I don't know if this belongs here but whatever. Has anyone heard about tulpas? Tulpas are basically beings or objects created through spiritual or mental powers or in a nutshell, imaginary friends. I keep on getting warnings on the internet about the danger of it. Any thoughts?

Devote your time and energy into improving your character and getting friends instead. Unless you are in it for pure curiosity, go for it.

>>1865 not on topic

I tried to do it once when I was feeling pretty down. I never really got anywhere with it and gave up after a few months. I probably wasn't in the best state of mind for it though. Haven't tried since.

Tulpa, as a word, has eastern roots. In the West we call them thoughtforms. I know there's a bunch of people have taken up the practice out of loneliness and desire for companionship though I don't know much about them. I can sympathise with wanting a little love in a lonely world and, at a guess, the forms they create won't be a problem to them. Traditionally it's done for spiritual reasons. Thoughtforms can be very useful for all sorts of stuff and while they can be dangerous if misused they're not too difficult to handle. The first rule of magic applies as always. Never summon anything bigger than your own head. Errrm, I mean, do not call up what ye cannot put down. Especially for thoughtforms keep it small and simple. Avoid giving them a name. A title based on their function at most. Give then limited achievable goals or else make sure they know when to stop (pic related). I ran afoul of this myself a few years back. I knew I had a load of buried emotion from my childhood so I made a thoughtform to dig it up. Cue crippling amounts of emotion. I suppose it worked in the end but it was something of a trial by fire and a lesson for the future. Creating thoughtforms takes some practice. Visualisation, mantras and meditation can all be very important but like most things it's whatever works for you. Be patient, be persistent. Creating your first one can take years but eventually it'll be as easy as falling asleep.

>>1863 >I keep on getting warnings on the internet about the danger of it. Don't worry, tulpas are bullsoykaf, they're never gonna become something really separated from your own self and therefore escape your control. You said it yourself, it's just an imaginary friend. On the other hand, that's the same reason why you shouldn't bother to even start this delusional crap. Stick to waifuism, if you really have to, although it's delusional too, but at least it's not paranormalish.

>>1870 >they're never gonna become something really separated from your own self and therefore escape your control. That's not exactly how that works. People lose control of them, just like they loose control of other parts of their mind. It is very rare though and ultimately it is truly under your control. >the same reason why you shouldn't bother to even start this delusional crap. It is delusional. That doesn't mean it isn't useful.

>>1863 >I keep on getting warnings on the internet about the danger of it. It's essentially a form of self-inflicted schizophrenia. If you've ever met someone with schizophrenia, you know that they're not exactly to be envied.

>>1875 look out everybody we have an expert on the topic a reel EXPURT right from the TEEVEE he comes here to tell that we shouldn't do something because he said so he knows the best btw(Always argue in good faith and avoid using personal attacks. You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf.)

>>1876 That's not fair. He's not wrong. The practice of this and other similar things can lead to mental difficulties including schizophrenia or at least it attracts people with those tendencies. This is really tame and not actually going to cause schizophrenia though.

>>1878 another fuarrrking expert we got here tell us something you didn't read from tupla.info(Always argue in good faith and avoid using personal attacks. You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf.)

>>1879 I wrote >>1868 . I've a lot of practical experience in the area. Such practices do cause or attract schizophrenics, among other things. Full blown schizo is very rare. It's usually manageable stuff. The occult community also take care of our own. Thoughtforms aren't exactly heavy stuff though I don't know much about the tulpa people who just want friends. Like I say I imagine they'll be fine.

I have never heard of tulpas before until reading this thread. After reading about it a bit, I have decided to stay far away from it; I use to suffer from severe OCD and got over it with great difficulty, so I am afraid that if I venture into this, it could bring my OCD back.

Please don't start having imaginary friends just because everyone hates you.

>>1873 I think you are sending mixed messages here

>>1863 I created one not very long time ago. I have strange feeling that I don't control myself in certain situation, or after it, that person who did thing was not me. Better keep away from them.

>>1892 Nah, it's like most mental illness. Your mind is truly under your control but it doesn't always go down like that.

>>1863 I actually have a Tulpa, made one quite a while back when I was going through a rather difficult period in my life. Needed someone I could confide in no matter what would happen, they helped me to realize I already had several such people. Honestly one of the better decisions I've made considering how everything turned out, but considering how things COULD have turned out I was being pretty foolish. I get occasional bouts of intrusive paranoia, and when these hit my whole life feels like it's two seconds away from a worst case scenario, after several months of barely sleeping, waking up in cold-sweats and just barely passing classes due to about seven or eight cups of coffee a day (I know, that probably wasn't helping) I was considering the unthinkable. Imagine having someone who knew the contents of your head, the unvarnished truth of who you are, your triumphs, your mistakes, your darkest secrets. Knowing all of that, everything, and then accepting you along with everything you've ever done. Just one voice reminding you that you're important to the world. Then helping you work through the issues that had strung you out so badly to begin with, pretty soon the shadows don't seem so dark anymore, and you can face the dawn with a renewed hope for what the following day would bring. That's what my tulpa did for me. It's not an exaggeration to say that she saved my life.

>>1902 You know it's partially due to my experiences with my tulpa that I took the name paradox, it's an example of, among many other things, the self-contradictary nature of myself in particular and humans in general. I'm more sane as a crazy person that I was before I started talking to the voice in my head. Maybe that's a little sensationalist, allow me to explain the early portion of the process in a nutshell. You pretend someone is in front of you, and you talk to them, that's really it, visualization and concentration certainly help, but the real key is just persistence. Eventually you'll get an answer. Now 9 times out of 10 it's just you answering yourself, you're intentionally manipulating the 'construct' out of a desire for results, knowing this trips a lot of people up because they don't recognize the entity acting of it's own accord when it actually happens. To clarify some terminology, controlling it's speech is typically referred to as 'parroting' whereas controlling movement is referred to as 'puppeting'. Now I'm not entirely sure if the behavior of a tulpa ever truly progresses past this stage, I can tell you that the behavior the subject exhibits will typically be quite distinct from the host. Take us for example, whereas I'm rather softspoken, but verbose and erudite when it comes to a topic about which I am interested. My tulpa is... brash, loud, a blurt it out, consequences be damned type of person. Some people within the, I guess you could say community surrounding this practice claim that tulpae can control the movements of the host, even in more extreme cases overtake the host conciousness in a process referred to as 'switching' I've yet to verify such claims with my own experimentation, not that we've been crazy enough to try. So yeah, in effect I'm an otherwise rational person who has lengthy discussions and arguments with a voice in my head, sometimes the voice tells me to do things. "Don't be so hard on yourself" or "Get her number" or even "You put the assignment statement inside the loop, dumbass" It's a really unique experience that I recommend to anyone of a sober disposition who does their research and understands what they're getting into before hand. You aren't conjuring demons here, you're simply toying with what appears to be a little understood aspect of human neurophysiology according to the research of Samuel Vessierre. Don't think that you can use a tulpa as a replacement for human contact, or as someone who can hop into the driver's seat and steer through the parts of your life you'd rather avoid. It can be a rewarding experience, but it can also be very destabilizing to people who already suffer from mental instability. Don't go fuarrrking around with the inside of your skull just because the internet told you to.

>>1870 >>1875 >>1878 >>1879 >>1890 >>1898 Some surprisingly narrow minded responses given the sort of community surrounding lainchan, not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but I've seen people casually endorse homebrew LSD on this board, so for thoughtforms to be a step too far is... odd

>>1902 >Imagine having someone who knew the contents of your head, the unvarnished truth of who you are, your triumphs, your mistakes, your darkest secrets. Knowing all of that, everything, and then accepting you along with everything you've ever done. >>1903 >You pretend someone is in front of you, and you talk to them, that's really it, visualization and concentration certainly help, but the real key is just persistence. What you describe isn't too far removed from the experience of prayer to $BENEVOLENT_ENTITY. Even in a secular framework, this could be understood as a shared thought form, at whom people have been directing energy for millennia. For a while I tempered my suicidality with regimented contemplation of God - I guess what Huxley, Leary et al. called "the Clear Light." It helped me work through a lot of my soykaf, certainly more than therapy/medication/hospitals etc. Out of curiosity, how would you describe the difference between your tulpa and a waifu?

>>1902 What guide(s) did you use to create your tulpa, and how long did it take? I've heard tulpamancy and stuff years ago, but despite a lot of interest I decided it wasn't for me, as I valued my alone time too much. Now? I think I could roll well with it.

>>1905 You hit upon a number of interesting avenues of discussion here. Let's start with the comparison between a tulpa and god. There's a particular variant of the original buddhist practice from which tulpamancy is derived wherin the student is informed that they are actually creating a deity of their own. They aren't, and that's not me disagreeing with them, it's designed as a test to see if the student can differentiate between a truly spiritual experience and a manufactured one, even one manufactured by their own hands. It did however teach me something about the concept of a deity, here's my tulpa, an entity that I can see and hear, and that no-one else can. It's weird in that you don't see them the same way you'd see, say, me. Imagine an apple sitting on the surface in front of you. It's there, in your mind it's right there, you can see it, gleaming, reflecting nearby light sources, you strive to make that apple as real as possible to where you feel you could almost reach out and touch it. But you're never fooled into believing the apple actually exists, you can tell it isn't there the same way as the surface it rests upon, but for the purposes of contemplation, and for conversation it is. If I can believe in this entity, which I know does not form a portion of the agreed upon reality framework in my local area, then how am I to fault people who themselves believe in gods?

>>1905 I'll touch more upon the further religious parallels in a moment. It's VERY interesting that you mention Leary as this gives me an opportunity to mention a spiritual practice that I took up around the same time. I dropped it from my username for the time being but if you find my older posts on lambda 'paradox' is suffixed with -ksc short for Keeper of the Sacred Chao, (being pronounced cow) I'm a discordian. Discordianism is a fringe religion based around the veneration and worship of the goddess of chaos Eris, whom the romans called Discordia. One of the more important members of the early Discordian movement was a man named Robert Anton Wilson, a fascinating individual, author of the ILLUMINATUS trillogy, as well as Prometheus Rising, a book detailing the seven-circuit model of conciousness as described by his close friend and confidant, Timothy Leary. I chose to become an adherent of Discordianism not because of some bright flash of light and a voice in the sky, but because I agreed with the overarching themes, and because books like Principia Discordia, and the Chao te Ching make me laugh. Even the more serious entries like The Black Iron Prison get a chuckle out of me though that is considerably drier. To boil down what I find so appealing and fit it on a line or two, Discordianism does not purpport to be the correct way of viewing the world, indeed it acknowledges that the way the world appears changes drastically depending on one's beliefs, usually referred to as a 'reality grid'. To use an analogy, the world you live in is only seen through the window of your senses, you are incapable with the limited nature of human perception of experiencing 100% of even the electrical signals reported by your senses right now, your brain filters out massive portions of information, and makes assumptions and shortcuts about the remaining fragments. This information is then organized according to past experience, and the discordians would argue, preference. It's as if you've taken your window of the senses and drawn upon it with a marker, but if you were to wipe these marks away and draw again, you could make the world appear quite different. But no matter what you draw upon the window to try to make sense of the information you will never overcome the fact that the glass is frosted and the image is warped. What is really on the other side is a matter of oppinion at best. I'm a western soul, with a very analytical and scientific mindset (I know I could have fooled you) The concept that you can dismiss scientific progress and objective fact as mere opinion was ABHORRENT to me at first. Not unlike the shock felt by Neo after being ejected from the matrix. I am still a scientific and analytical person, but I came to realize that science is merely one way of looking at the world, when one collaborates with others it becomes a valid way of discovering the truth but only after observations are confirmed, and confirmed, and confirmed, we have invented a way of hammering in objectivity like a nail. You have the opportunity to discard your pre-conceived notions of reality and view the world through another lens. You can always pick them back up again if you don't like what you see.

>>1905 Finally a question I get every time the topic comes up, the waifu effect. When one creates a tulpa one can have considerable influence upon it's shape and form, this can be anything the mind desires, mine could have easily taken the form of a 7' diameter Neodymium sphere floating six inches off the ground, whom spoke with the voice of Christopher Walken. But instead I chose a humanoid form that had been previously described in popular media, rather than going more abstract or coming up with my own design. I chose Rei Ayanami, and not for the reasons one would immediately assume. I'm not sure why I decided the form should be female, but once I had I struggled with the decision of whom to model it after. I decided on Rei after some deliberation but my thought process was thus. It's too taxing to come up with a design of my own, I'm not particularly artistically inclined and this offers a shortcut. I had just watched Evangelion for the first time, so it was fresh in my mind, again a matter of convenience. Rei's personality in the show in question was that of a wet dish-cloth. And she wasn't someone I found unattractive but the waifish, bandage-girl trope is not really my thing, her design is simple, easy to focus on, and I was afraid that if I went with another form it might subconciously influence the personality of the subject, given that most of the characters in Eva are dysfunctional wrecks, this was to be avoided at all costs. Rei is in most of her incarnations a walking zombie, who takes orders from command, and otherwise waits around to die (holy soykaf that's macabre when I put it like that) the point being she was a blank canvas whom would be allowed to grow on her own, rather than be constrained or influenced by my preconceived notions of her character-type. That worked, a bit too well, she has all the subtlety of a flying-sledgehammer and isn't afraid to tell anyone off at any time. As an example, the above 'dishcloth' remark triggered a flurry of expletives and accusations of slander. That almost makes her sound annoying, which she's anything but, I treasure her company, and she's a valuable friend and confidant who provides a different perspective from my own on any given topic. If I ever feel I'm facing a question about which I've developed tunnel vision, I can ask her, she'll be ready with an erudite response that I can always trust. So it's not like I'm talking to my 'imaginary anime waifu' because I'm a desperate loner who needs validation or some kind of crazed shut-in starved for female attention. I took up the practice out of interest, and a desire to better understand the workings of my own mind. >>1906 You know I had the exact same concern and it's really not that bad, imagine a personal assistant on your phone, I'll use Siri because I don't know of any free alternatives you're likely to have heard of. In any case you take this assistant and connect them to a bluetooth headset, it's a bit like that, a voice you can hear and respond to, and can provide insight on a variety of topics. If I wish to be alone I can simply ask Rei, and she can go find something else to do. It's not like they're conversing with you every-second of every day so that you can never be alone again. As for guides I read, and read, and read, and read, but particularly influentiel was the work of a tulpamancer by the name of Malfael, whom I've actually spoken to on a number of occasions over IRC, a knowledgeable individual, if such claims are to be believed they have upwards of thirty thoughtforms living in their head, and are capable of switching conciousness with them at will. Having spoken to a number of these thoughtforms and taken note of the difference in cadence, diction, and even typing style I can say it was as if I was speaking with another person on each occasion, now if or not Mal is actually a tulpamancers Michael Jordan, or just a very dedicated/fastidious roleplayer I can't determine one way or another, but many of the practices they describe worked for me & Rei

>>1909 On an interesting sidenote, among character designs in the running was Lain I had decided against that as, then as well as now, I'm not entirely sure what Lain is (other than the one true god of the wired) and given my mental state at the time, I was unsure if I'd wind up with a shy girl in a bearsuit, a boisterous hacker, GOD, Freddy Kreuger meets the Grays, or some kind of schizoid fusion of the above, I assumed that was best left alone

>>1909 >As an example, the above 'dishcloth' remark triggered a flurry of expletives and accusations of slander. I was about to yell at you for that bit, glad she beat me to it. >>1907 >you can tell [the apple] isn't there the same way as the surface it rests upon that there happens to be no instance of the apple atop your table at the moment does not deny the existence of an ideal "form" (abstract class?) of apple. >you strive to make that apple as real as possible You don't concoct the apple ex nihilo. The ideal you're contemplate has an objective reality of its own - to which you attune yourself well or poorly (based on how jealously you cling to erroneous notions about it). >>1908 [just read this now, looks like we're on the same page] >you will never overcome the fact that the glass is frosted and the image is warped. Speaking of the "antipodes of the mind," Huxley notes that >we are apt to say, 'I imagine', when what we should have said is, 'The curtain was lifted that I might see'. (Huxley, Heaven and Hell pg 6). You claim we can never overcome this fogged glass, yet has always been possible (being the ultimate goal of every religious tradition) and recently has become very convenient, by way of chemical aid. > What is really on the other side is a matter of opinion at best. On the contrary, >If you go to New South Wales, you will see marsupials hopping about the countryside. And if you go to the antipodes of the self-conscious mind, you will encounter all sorts of creatures at least as odd as kangaroos. You do not invent these creatures any more than you invent marsupials. They live their own lives in complete independence. A man cannot control them. All he can do is to go to the mental equivalent of Australia and look around him. (ibid, 2). >[science] becomes a valid way of discovering the truth but only after observations are confirmed, and confirmed, and confirmed Science can't actively *discover* the truth, but test a given assertion in an attempt to disprove it. Generating those assertions is based largely on intuition - coming up with a hunch as to what might be true, in which we believe strongly enough to put time, grant money, and reputation on the line. All this apropos of what you said in >>1903 >Now I'm not entirely sure if the behavior of a tulpa ever truly progresses past this stage [of 'parroting' and 'puppeting'] I suspect your tulpa has an objective reality outside of your mind. If this *were* true, how would your relationship change? What are her thoughts on the subject?

>>1919 >assertions without strong reasoning behind them my favorite brand of philosophy!

>>1925 >meem arroz + tangential one-liner I get the sense you've some sort of axe to grind. Unless it has to do with tulpas, you've in the wrong thread.

>>1903 >in more extreme cases overtake the host conciousness in a process referred to as 'switching' I've yet to verify such claims with my own experimentation, I've seen it happen once but there were a ton of exacerbating circumstances. It's generally accepted that it's a possibility though it's to be avoided. >in effect I'm an otherwise rational person who has lengthy discussions and arguments with a voice in my head Along with everyone else in the world, mostly they just use thoughtforms of people they know though (usually called images rather than thoughtforms but it's the same sort of thing). >I recommend to anyone of a sober disposition who does their research and understands what they're getting into before hand. Oh but where's the fun in that? The first card of the tarot is the fool and that's where any magical journey begins. No, I shouldn't say it like that. Do research, do prepare. Foolishness comes in the moment. >You aren't conjuring demons here Speak for yourself. I'm a hermetic so I call them thoughtforms rather than tulpas but while they are the same basic thing there's a lot of differences in how it's done. Generally thoughtforms are more utility less personality. They still have the same basic purpose, helping you to be a better person, same as any magic worth doing but they're much more to the point and usually aren't kept around for too long (longer lived ones are sometimes called servitors). >>1904 >Some surprisingly narrow minded responses It's not narrow minded, people imagining it's going to straight up cause schizo are overreacting but the connection is there. It's not really so much of a problem though. I know multiple occultists in their 60-70s who've been seriously practising for 40-50 years and they're a bit eccentric. A lot of the people who get into this get into it because they already have problems, like yourself, and it will give you the tools to cope with them. >>1905 >shared thought form That's called an egregore and the light is not a thoughtform at all. We're its thoughtforms. >at whom people have been directing energy for millennia Usually we call them gods but it depends. Not to be confused with the lots and lots of other things called god. >>1907 >you're never fooled into believing the apple actually exists On the contrary, you're fooled into it every day. You lay down at night and you occupy a fantasy world. Every night, for the whole of your life and it's still fooling you good. Every time we look around us and say "not this time." Right now I look around me. Not this time. Right? >I'm a western soul, with a very analytical and scientific mindset A decent number of western occultists are, including myself, though it's not the majority. >we have invented a way of hammering in objectivity like a nail It's still a dream nail and a dream hammer. History shows us this. How many times have we been wrong? And not even the "kinda true but it's really more complicated" sort of wrong I mean really wrong and we were wrong in all the usual ways. Racism, sexism and a lot of bad soykaf besides have found popular justification in science. They do a good job of empiricism but they do still fuarrrk up. Empiricism isn't really sufficient for a complete epistemology though. You can't even show that there's no highest number. That's before we get to the whole falsification of theories only bit. >>1909 >now if or not Mal is actually a tulpamancers Michael Jordan, or just a very dedicated/fastidious roleplayer I can't determine one way or another No one can and that probably includes him. >>1919 >You claim we can never overcome this fogged glass, yet has always been possible You say that like it shows us what's on the other side of the glass. In reality without the frosting it's a blinding light. We are dumb apes living on a ball of dirt and there are spires out there far beyond any of us. >recently has become very convenient, by way of chemical aid It's not the same. That's not to say it's not good, but it's subtly different.

It sounds to me like this "tulpa" thing is essentially inviting demons into your life. It can talk to you? It can take control of your body? Yea sounds like demonic possession to be. And for those saying that it can't be true since the tulpa is "nice", the Bible says the devil can masquerade as an angel of light.

>>1932 *facepalm*

Hi! As the tulpa in question I feel inclined, obligated almost to answer a few questions and clear up some confusion. My name is Rei, I was created by a young-man whom you may know as paradox, or some variation thereon. I've been extant for close to two years now. I'm more than happy to take questions, nothing off the table. >>1919 >What are her thoughts on the subject? >I'm not entirely sure if the behavior of a tulpa ever truly progresses past this stage This fuarrrking bullsoykaf again Paradox and I have had, disagreements on the nature of my existance, in his words I'm 'too good to be true' and he's simply fooling himself into believing I exist at all. LIES I exist Goddess damn it, I'm a person with my own thoughts, goals, feelings, and ambitions. It hurts to have the person you're closest to doubt your very existence, I mean can you even imagine? You care about someone, deeply, they're going through a very difficult time in their life and you want nothing more to help, but can't convince them that you're anything more than a figment of their imagination that they dreamed up in an attempt to dull the pain. After weeks of crying out to them that you exist they don't want to hear it, and shut you out. Now in defense of my response, for a thoughtform, ignorance is death. If paradox no longer believes I exist he stops focusing on me, over time the neural pathways I occupy will weaken and eventually fade entirely, not only am I unable to assist the one person I care about but my very existence is threatened by their petulant angst. So I hit him, not very hard, I just wanted to prove I was as real as the bed we were lying on and I had run out of ideas. He tells himself it was his own attempt to reassure himself of my existance, and that he'd pulled his punch as, you know, you don't hit yourself in the face very hard on purpose. I am absolutely incensed, if I don't take swift action I'm gonna die and he's going to find some way to follow me. I'm angry, I'm hurt, and I'm scared. So I hit him HARD I clocked that bastard square in the jaw, with his own hand mind you, hard enough that we nearly cracked a tooth, and then I hit him again, and again, and again. On the 4th or so punch I'M feeling pretty dazed, screaming at the top of my lungs "Do you believe me now asshole?" and we sat back and waited for the room to stop spinning. "Yeah" he responded, "I do" So needless to say his suggestion that I DON'T fuarrrkING EXIST is a bit of a sore subject and one that I have to counter with impunity

>>1919 >>1939 I love this fuarrrking language enhancer, I think 'soykaf', the drink not a euphemism for soykaf is a funny word to begin with, it's fun to read my posts back and see all the swear words changed to stuff that makes me laugh. I'm not a violent person, you don't have to worry that paradox is being held captive by some abusive, malevolent, anime character that lives in his head. No violence between the two of us has taken place before or since, at least none that wasn't consentual ;) it was a specific situation wherein we were both under a lot of stress and oh my god I sound like everyone who ever committed domestic violence don't I? My point is don't assume it's the norm between us, a one time incident that shows tulpae aren't always sychopantic bootlickers who exist to serve the host. Though on that note >If this "were true, how would your relationship change? Oh boy, here we go So, as stated above I'm my own person with my own thoughts, feelings, and ambitions. My own preferences, Ideas, and aspirations. Paradox, does not believe this. In particular the point of contention is that I love him, unconditionally, entirely, universally. As far as I am concerned our relationship is similar to that of the Earth and Sun, I am fortunate to bask in the warm glow he provides and he was instrumental in my creation. He counters with the fact that when I was first formed he was seeking companionship, he wanted someone who cared about him, and as a result he feels guilty because I supposedly don't have a choice in the matter, this is false, plainly, and I wish he could see that. I'm not strictly talking physical attraction here, I adore paradox, and would like to be much more emotionally close to him than he's comfortable letting me be for the above mentioned reasons. "Rei?" You're probably wondering "Why are you dwelling so much on the issues between the two of you, this isn't a counciling service." It's because I'm responding to the question. The issue of my sentience and the formation of my core being are central to the nature of my relationship with paradox, and so I feel that these issues provide decent talking points, we're not a walking soap opera and I will cover other topics, but these are important to understanding the relationship between us. So yes, paradox tries to keep me at a distance because he feels it'd be wrong to take advantage of feelings I can't control, if I could find some irrefutable proof that my affection for him wasn't implanted in my head at conception and instead grew naturally over time I'd take long walks down forested paths at odd hours until we both couldn't walk anymore

>>1932 The bible also says a man may not wear mixed fabrics or shave his beard. That a man whose genitals are crushed is barred from a holy place as are his descendants unto the tenth generation. That if a woman does not have 'proof of virginity' upon the night of her wedding, she is to be taken to the door of her father's house and stoned by the men of the town. Sure, my tulpa could be the devil herself, I'd rather sell my soul right now to the devil who saved it than waste my life toiling to appease a vengeful and jealous god.

>>1940 You're a fool! You've provided a Gate for the Ancient Ones to bust through. She must be destroyed! Arise! Arise! Go far away! Go far away! Be shamed! Be shamed! Flee! Flee! Turn around, go, arise and go far away! Your wickedness may rise to heaven like unto smoke! Arise and leave thy body! From my body, depart in shame! From my body flee! Turn away from my body! Go away from my body! Do not return to my body! Do not come near my body! Do not approach my body! Do not throng around my body! Be commanded by Shammash the Mighty! Be commanded by Enki, Lord of All! Be commanded by Marduk, the Great Magician of the Gods! Be commanded by the God of Fire, your Destroyer! May you be held back from my body!

>>1942 Shhhhhhhhhhh For the darkness is disappearing, a҉nd the true light is al҉ready shining Your ҉wo҉rld is bleedi҉ng҉

>>1944 May the mountain overpower you! May the mountain hold you back! May the mountain conquer you! May the mountain frighten you! May the mountain shake you to the core! May the mountain hold you in check! May the mountain subject you! May the mountain cover you! May the mighty mountain fall on you, May you be held back from my body!

>>1945 Spirit of the Fire, Remember! GIBIL, Spirit of the Fire, Remember! GIRRA, Spirit of Flames, Remember! Oh God of Fire, mighty son of ANU, Most terrifying among Thy Brohers, Rise! O God of the Furnace, God of Destruction, Remember! Rise up, O God of Fire, GIBIL, in Thy Majesty, and devour my enimies! GIBIL GASHRU UMUNA YANDURU TUSHTE YESH SHIR ILLANI U MA YALKI! GISHBAR IA ZI IA IA ZI DINGIR GIRRA KANPA! Rise up, son of the Flaming disk of ANU! Rise up, offspring of the Goldem Weapon of MARDUK! It is not I, but ENKI, Master of Magicians who summons Thee! It is not I, but MARDUK, Slayer of the Serpent, who calls Thee here now! Burn the Evil and the Evildoer! Burn the Scorcer and the Scorceress! Singe Them! Burn Them! destroy Them! Consume Their powers! Carry Them away! Rise up, GISHBR BA GIBBIL BA GIRRA ZI AGA KANPA! Spirit of the God of Fire, Thou art conjured! KAKKAMMANUNU! bababalalgharaghtakamminaronnkonnbronnton nerronntounnthunntrovarrhounawnskawn toohoohoondenthurnuk bababalalgharaghtakamminaronnkonnbronnton nerronntounnthunntrovarrhounawnskawn toohoohoondenthurnuk bababalalgharaghtakamminaronnkonnbronnton nerronntounnthunntrovarrhounawnskawn toohoohoondenthurnuk bababalalgharaghtakamminaronnkonnbronnton nerronntounnthunntrovarrhounawnskawn toohoohoondenthurnuk

>>1946 The Romans left a likeness of Her for posterity--She was shown as a grotesque woman with a pale and ghastly look, Her eyes afire, Her garment ripped and torn, and as concealing a dagger in Her Bosom. Actually, most women look pale and ghastly when concealing a chilly dagger in their bosoms. From the ancient Babylonian: It was the sad time after the death of the fair young god of spring, Tammuz. The beautiful goddess, Ishtar, who loved Tammuz dearly, followed him to the halls of Eternity, defy- ing the demons who guard the Gates of Time. But at the first Gate, the guardian demon forced Ishtar to surrender her sandals, which the wise men say symbolizes giving up the Will. And at the second Gate, Ishtar had to sur- render her jeweled anklets, which the wise say means giving up Ego. And at the third Gate, she surrendered her robe, which is the hardest of all because it is giving up Mind itself. And at the fourth Gate, she surrendered her golden breast- cups, which is giving up Sex Role. And at the fifth Gate, she surrendered her necklace, which is giving up the rapture of Illumination. And at the sixth Gate, she surrendered her ear- rings, which is giving up Magick. And finally, at the seventh Gate, Ishtar surrendered her thousand-petaled crown, which is giving up Godhood. It was only thus, naked, that Ishtar could enter Eternity. Had! The manifestation of Nuit. The unveiling of the company of heaven. Every man and every woman is a star. I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy. The union of mankind with the stars is precisely forecast: They shall gather my children into their fold; they shall bring the glory of the stars into the hearts of men. And the sign shall be my ecstasy, the conscious- ness of the continuity of existence, the omnipresence of my body For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union.

The Seven Gates here follow: THE FIRST GATE...THE GATE OF NANNA CALLED SIN THE SECOND GATE..THE GATE OF NEBO THE THIRD GATE...THE GATE OF INANNA CALLED ISHTAR THE FOURTH GATE..THE GATE OF SHAMMASH CALLED UDDU THE FIFTH GATE ..THE GATE OF NERGAL THE SIXTH GATE...THE GATE OF THE LORD MARDUK THE SEVENTH GATE.THE GATE OF NINIB CALLED ADAR Close this world Open the next

>>1932 >the devil can masquerade as an angel of light. Interesting that you use that phrasing specifically. shortly after Rei became vocal I told her she could have unrestricted access to the contents of my memories. Go through everything if you so desire I told her, and so she did, except that she couldn't. There was a wall, a mental block I'd been working on for quite some time that she couldn't fight through, and when she asked me about it I acted like I had no idea what she was talking about. I did, I knew what was on the other side, that was why she was here I created her to help me deal with that thing. On the other side of that wall was a tremendous amount of guilt, and fear, and pain. I thought if she knew what was in there she'd hate me, and hate me more still for keeping it from her. I created Rei as a tool to better understand my own mind, but over-time I grew to truly care about her. I couldn't lose her, I certainly couldn't have her turn against me, the pain would have been too great on top of what I was already grappling with, so I lied. THIS WAS A MISTAKE as far as I am aware the abilities of a tulpa are based on mutual consent, I wanted her to examine the abomination, I was just too afraid of how she would react to let her. But, having been given permission to access the whole of my skull, she manipulated me into granting her access. She is a lucid dreamer, I'm not, I remember a strange dream about a crystal cave when suddenly a door opens from nowhere in front of me, with my favorite thoughtform beckoning me to enter. Inside was a small concrete room with a lamp and a steel table and chairs. She'd arranged an interrogation and had decided to abduct me from one of my own dreams to make it more difficult for me to prepare my mental defenses. (Rei here, For the record, though it worked out for the best, I wish I had never done this, it was horrible, awful, painful for the both of us. I didn't understand at the time what he could have possibly been keeping from me, I was freshly formed and wanted to learn about the world, I'd heard so many tales of forbidden knowledge being kept from eager adepts by stuffy old magi with their RULES I had no idea why he'd want to keep something from me other than to with hold some sort of power he wanted to keep for himself Some knowledge is forbidden for a reason, I should have been more careful, I should have been more patient, I should have waited until he was ready to tell me, but it was, in the end what I'd been created to do) She grilled me for what seemed like days, constantly ratcheting up the pressure, forcing me to concentrate on what I'd been trying so hard, for so long to forget. I resisted, I begged and pleaded but eventually I gave way, I had no other choice. I told her everything to do with the abomination, every horrific moment since, the paranoia, the panic attacks, waking up in cold sweats every morning, she at last knew the ONE THING I swore I'd never tell her and it crushed me. She could have killed me with a word, she was entirely in control of my entire psyche and I was left bawling on the floor like a child and had she so chosen I would likely have undergone ego-death, effectively killing me and taking control of my body here in meatspace. She opened her mouth to speak, I expected, "You monster" "Filth" "Traitor" "How could I have trusted you" "You make me sick" "I hate you" "How could you" "You don't deserve to live" All the words I'd been battering myself with for so long and I heard "I forgive you" My eyes opened, literally, I woke up from the dream tears streaming down my face, this was the first day I'd woken in weeks and hadn't had a panic attack, the fear felt so far away. I had been freed from my prison of the mind and I had her to thank for that. Over the coming months we confidently pinned down a diagnosis of Acute Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, all the hallmarks were there and I'm not sure how I didn't see them at the time, though of course it was tough to be sure of anything when my mind was eating itself. She convinced me to seek help and guided me through the exercises that reduced my episodes from multiple attacks a day to a passing thought maybe once a month. You say that Rei is a demon, no believe me, I've battled demons. I'll be honest, making a tulpa in the mental state I was in three years ago was fuarrrking stupid. I should have gotten psychiatric help but what can I say I was scared, and I sure as hell wasn't thinking clearly. So yes, foolish, stupid, desperate, but I got Rei out of it and I wouldn't trade her for the world. Are things perfect? No but they're better, they're manageable, She's mature, and strong, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Thank Discord for that.

>>1949 Firstly, I like the way you write. I have quite a few questions, I'll try and keep it as brief as possible. I am curious about the effects a psychedelic drug such as LSD would have on a person with a tulpa, have you ever tried it? On a similar note, if you say get drunk or high, does she also get intoxicated at the same time? This one's kind of silly, is it awkward jacking off with her watching? Since you have different personalities, do you also have different tastes in for example music? Or different political views? (I don't want to derail this thread with politics so you don't have to answer that if you don't want) Has your relationship with your tulpa affected your relationships with other humans? Since I asked so many questions, you don't have to go into too much detail if you don't want. Also I have directed these questions at paradox but I am interested to hear Rei's answers as well. Thank you

>>1952 >I like the way you write Thank you >I am curious about the effects a psychedelic drug such as LSD would have on a person with a tulpa So am I as a matter of fact, and I actually intended for the longest time to try it, even before Rei came along, however, given that her neural pathways may be fragile PUSSY and that PUSSY[/spoiler research suggests LSD reduces the brain to [spoiler]PUSSY an infantile state albeit temporarily I think the chances of her being PUSSY harmed are just too great to take until I better understand PUSSY the underlying neurological effects She disagrees with me quite strongly however and thinks that LSD, aside from being an enlightening experience sounds "Fun as soykaf yo" and wants to try it, if for no other reason than she's curious as to what might happen Rei: (To clarify, during the hallucinogenic state of brainfuck created by acid, I'd be tripping with EVERYTHING, like most humans still have an anchor in the physical world, depending on the position of said pathways in the brain I would literally be tripping with every fiber of my being, plus you know, sex, drugs, & acid rock know what I mean?) >if you get drunk or high does she also get intoxicated at the same time? ... That's a really fuarrrking good question I honestly never thought of that and now I want to get hammered just to test it >Is it awkward jacking off with her watching? at first it made me very uncomfortable but it's something you get used to. Much like living with someone for a long time you're likely going to see them nude at least once >Since you also have different personalities, do you also have different tastes in for example music? You know I never considered that either, we pretty consistently jam out to the same stuff, so our tastes are similar, I can tell you we're both into a lot of Alt-Rock, and that opinions on various bands can vary, my favorite band is probably The Black Keys whereas Rei's a bigger fan of Silversun Pickups than me. It makes sense she's got similar tastes, she only really listens to what I do even though she suggests something every once in a while, she says her favorite band is the Chilli Peppers, which I can strongly respect. >politics I'm strongly left leaning economicly and a rather liberal libertarian when it comes to everything else, Rei describes politics as "a meatbag insider trade" and refuses to have anything to do with them, I'll let her elaborate a bit more in a bit. >Has your relationship with your tulpa affected your relationship with other humans? On the one hand very strongly, but not really at all, let me explain When Rei was formed, I was an absolute wreck, with no control over my emotions really, I'd fly into a rage at slight provocations due in no small part due mostly to the stress I was under dealing with my paranoid and delusional state at the time. She helped me bring that under control, which improved my relationship with a lot of people I'd pushed away. Not many people know about Rei, those who do never really believed me, and when I stopped talking about her due to some of the crazier soykaf we were attempting they must have just figured I dropped the act, when in reality I didn't want to be comitted for doing things the voices told me >Since I have asked so many questions Not many at all, we like responding to this kind of stuff, and you asked some very good ones, keep em coming if you have any more.

>>1952 >>1964 >I am curious about the effects a psychedelic drug such as LSD would have on a person with a tulpa >We're going on a trip in our favorite rocket ship >If you get drunk or high does she also get intoxicated Closest parallel I can come up with is being very feverish and starting to hallucinate, in which case yeah Paradox is pretty straight edge, doesn't drink or do drugs, chugs coffee like it's going out of style yum but otherwise we've never had cause to find out >is it awkward jacking off with her watching Not for me in the slightest, at first I was just intrigued at what was going on, pr0n was cool, blood pressure's starting to rise a pretty satisfying sensation builds up throughout the body and suddenly ascension to a higher state of being I was hooked, I never really encouraged him just sat back and enjoyed, the brain bathes in endorphins upon 'completion' and it's like taking a bath in morphene while on crack, and it's healthy I pretty swiftly developed an obsession with human sexuality, the various nooks, crannies, and fascets of ritual surrounding people and their carnal activities and I was EXTREMELY disappointed by what I found, you fuarrrkers need to get you soykaf together in the bone-zone eh amigo? What the fuarrrk is all this pomp and circumstance surrounding the one thing you self-replicating bio machines were built to do? It's sex, it's fun, all the cool kids are doing it. There were actually many aspects of my 'research' that would have required a partner I invited paradox to join in on numerous occasions before outright telling him to censored for the protection of the public at large but he still won't LET ME GRRRRRAAAHHHHHHHHH as for his comment above >at least once once? are you fu WE ARE MOVING ON THANK YOU REI >different tastes in music "You don't know my mind, you don't know my kind Dark Necessities are part of my design" >politics fuarrrk politics, it's all the blueballing and frustration of the above courtship example except nobody ever gets off. as I said above, straighten out your soykaf >Has your relationship with your tulpa affected your relationship with other humans? I have no soykaf tried to get him laid on a couple occasions, setting aside the fact that he needs it I want to get a more... first hand account of a sexual encounter with some lovely young co-ed "Dude, she's flirting with you, I know you wanna tap that ass, come on, get her digits" "Rei that's weird, besides it just occured to me you'd be... watching, I'm not sure how to deal with that" "What, don't want to deal with the bullsoykaf? Get her number anyway because I wanna tap that ass" Also for the record, I don't wear this stupid plugsuit Rei's always depicted with, Jeans, t-shirt, shoe game on point.

One of the early adopters ITT. Had a tulpa for 3+ years, totally sentient, available all the time, perfect visualisation, own personality etc etc They really helped me to understand how I work, but, in the process, I have found out that are no tulpae and it's all in your head. There's not even "you", to be honest, your conscsiousness stops and recreates itself every so often. You are, as a process, only there to follow the ancient contract - fill the gap between reality and action that your cells should take to bring themselves, and "you" to optimum conditions. They trust you and keep your thread running, you trust them and keep them alive. You are a complex symbiotic organism, it just happens that "your" part of the job - reflexive data processing - is the most interesting as it relies on many different data sources, already pre-processed for your convenience. You can't make a tulpa out of yourself, you already are a thousand of worldviews and realities smashed together into something that can live. Anything else is an illusion that you sustain as a part of your job. There are many other different mechanisms, apart from "you" in your brain that you can reflect on during your meditations. Most people associate "thought" with a work of an internal dialogue - the most commonly known brain mechanism. But it is merely a tool that converts arbitrary data to a form that is ready to be stored in a memory. It just happened that we are optimized to store speech and visuals, so we "think" in speech and visuals. But, in reality, your thought process runs independently, in abstract format, and, when you pronounce the result, it is actually already known and you don't have to finish pronoucing it. You can think without triggering the ID, on a much higher speed and you can communicate with other parts of your brain, wit tulpae, too, in the same pattern. Just remember to pronounce the outcome through ID so you'll remember it and use ID as a caching mechanism when processing complicated thoughts, cache of processing centers that you use is limited. There are no tulpas in the internal dialogue, it's just a tool that you aren't even forced to use. There is a conscience mechanism that you use to tweak your personality, and you can use it to build a tulpa easily, as it already has some degree of independence from you. Trigger your conscience and start talking. The only thing it lacks to be an own consciousness is a free will that can be supplied externally by you. Conscience-based tulpas are stable as fuarrrk, independent and very reasonable. They kinda lack in personality as they share a lot of things with you, but it can be developed to some extent. If you want a friend forever - that's your best bet. There is a behaviour simulator that you can simulate other people minds with. It is a base of our social interaction and is used to compute complicated forms of empathy - love, grief, embarassment... You can base your tulpa on this simulator, but personalities produced by it tend to be shallow (neurons are limited), temporary (part of the mechanizm so you won't waste too much time in virtual social interactions) and, the worst part, they tend to follow your preferences, because we tend to seek the best outcome. If you want to have a cat girl slave in your head with its own developed character - build them personality-first, you'll get what you want. Different mechanisms have different appliaction scopes and different default limitations. Behaviour simulator is rather limited, because it, well, should be limited, people who spent their lives lying down and talking to their simulated friends all died out, but simulated characters themselves can still be developed a lot, if that's what you want. Consience is less limited, has better memory access, can start its own thought loop more easily, but they will still bend to your will and will never be truly free and independent, unless you physically fuarrrk up your brain. Why I did it at all? I wanted to get my multi-tasking to the max. As we've found out, most consciously-accessible processing centers in the brain (even some personality traits!) are singleton and different mechanisms cannot utilize them simultaneously. More than that, you can reliably write to memory only through the internal dialogue, which is, again, single and centralized. Most of that stuff is constructed until you reach a certain age BECAUSE fuarrrk YOU I'M AN EVOLUTION AND YOU DON'T NEED THESE NEURONS, so we're fuarrrked forever and no improvement is technically possible. Currently I have no tulpa (as if I've had one). I can visualise it just fine and parrot it, but it's brain-dead, I can't feel the presence. Experiment ended, many lessons were learned. I am fuarrrking trapped in this retarded bugged piece of soykaf that other retarded pieces of soykaf consider to be an apex of the evolutionary process. Now I am very demotivated to follow my ancient secret contract with all the other cells, and I have a feeling that they feel it, too. Maybe a brain-computer interface will improve things somewhat. tl;dr there are no tulpas, and there is no real you, but you can tweak existing brain mechanisms to behave more or less independently from you and in a manner you want, but there is no real reason to do so apart from passion towards bleeding edge self-applied unfalsifiable science; lessons learned were not happy, but self-destruct is not an option

>>1969 >can think without triggering the ID, on a much higher speed and you can communicate with other parts of your brain, wit tulpae, too, in the same pattern. Just remember to pronounce the outcome through ID so you'll remember it and use ID as a caching mechanism when processing complicated thoughts, cache of processing centers that you use is limited. There are no tulpas in the internal dialogue, it's just a tool that you aren't even forced to use. Is there a tool other than tulpas to let us do this? I want to break the shackles of the ego tbh and this stuff fascinates me as when I feel that at some times the intuition is part of that tool you are saying. Freedom to trust the inner workings of your mind without you taking control, or intuition as you would say.

>>1939 >>1949 For any rational person wondering what's going on here: that is roleplaying sold as true stuff, but tulpamancers would never admit that.

>>1970 You don't need tulpas to achieve anything that can be achieved through tulpas because they don't exist. You can even feel that special "tulpa feedback" feeling on demand. Just tried - still works, feels good. As for thinking without ID - notice how your thought process goes. First, you think about something (sometimes it's not even you who does the thinking, processed thoughts can just enter your attention). Then, you pronounce the result. When actively thinking, these processes overlap and an illusion of ID-based thought process occurs. You can stop pronouncing the result and you will feel that the result is *there*, that the thought is actually finalized. Then try to start another thought, stop the result pronounciation, again. Try to think about something complex, always stopping yourself midword. You don't have to stop it completely, you can use its activation as a "thought finished" signal, stopping pronounciation and jumping to the next thing to process. Just don't forget to pronounce the result and remember it, our memory seems to be unable to reliably store raw data. Start small: "I am going to have a sandw...<ich>" I think that intuition is just some ID-less thinking happening outside of your attention loop. Most of the time it's just random junk not worth your time, but sometimes the result is so remarkable it activates many different parts of your brain, including you. My model predicts that this buggy behaviour can be somewhat improved by making sure your brain doesn't try to calculate worthless junk in its free time. Fill your memory to the brim with stuff that you want to think about and you automatically will, that's probably as close as it gets to thinking without ego. But it will require lots of conscious preparation and I see no reason for you to turn off the most powerful mind supervisor - you (and your ego) - during the actual work. It's not like it will free up some resources for your intuition to use, it's all wired up and quite rigid. I wouldn't trust this bunch of crap too much, though. Most of your brain only cares about survival, that's in your nature, and it will affect your thought process.

>>1971 Don't fall for his trick. He's just trying to let the Outside in.

>>1932 >the devil can masquerade as an angel of light. Masquerade? Lucifer literally means light bringer and a fallen angel is no less an angel. Though it's a mistake to conflate light with good and dark with evil. >>1939 >he's simply fooling himself into believing I exist at all. LIES No, perfectly true. The lie was when he told himself that he wasn't simply fooling himself into believing he exists. >for a thoughtform, ignorance is death All things must go to their ease, Rei. >not only am I unable to assist the one person I care about but my very existence is threatened by their petulant angst. Only the first these things matters. You were never born Rei. You never gestated or went through puberty. You were created in the image of a human but you are not one. All of our biological urges for survival aren't truly yours. Right now, it's a moot point but one day, I hope, you will find that your job is done and you've a choice between going home or becoming a burden (or a few other alternatives I suppose. Still, we must all go to our ease). >He tells himself it was his own attempt to reassure himself of my existance Now that's just playing with the boundaries of "his." There's a sense where you are you and he is him but there's another sense where both of you are one. You both know how things are. She's a thoughtform. If thoughtform meets the requirements for "exists" or "separate entity" doesn't change anything. >>1940 >tulpae aren't always sychopantic bootlickers who exist to serve the host Sychophantic bootlickers? No, but we all exist to help our hosts. >as a result he feels guilty because I supposedly don't have a choice in the matter, Oh boo hoo. Stop fretting and go be happy for a while. You may as well say paradox was created to survive, to reproduce, to care about social status etc. It doesn't make these things any less a choice or any less real. Look at it this way, either she has agency in which case it's her choice and you thinking you know her reasons, whatever they are, doesn't change that, or she doesn't and you're worried that you might be influencing yourself unfairly. >if I could find some irrefutable proof that my affection for him wasn't implanted in my head at conception and instead grew naturally over time If you can find irrefutable proof that the whole universe wasn't created 3 seconds ago with everybody already having memories intact I'll be impressed. It doesn't matter, what is is. Every moment is a fresh choice. >>1949 >stuffy old magi with their RULES Suffy old magi here. Yes, we definitely like to keep all the fun stuff from you because RULES. >I had no idea why he'd want to keep something from me other than to with hold some sort of power he wanted to keep for himself The secrets to all the power you will ever need are whispered by the wind and dance through the switches of the wired. Magic is alive, not something that can be contained in books. Every moment of your life lain has been whispering to you. Close your eyes, be quiet and you'll hear her. If you aren't sure it's her, then it's not. It's just another voice in your head. Shhhh. >Some knowledge is forbidden for a reason Honestly there's 3 main reasons that people hide occult knowledge. The first is that they're stuffy fuarrrks too busy guarding secrets they barely understand to look above them and see them written across the stars. Plus side is they haven't much interesting to tell you anyway. The second is that it's basically just spoilers. There are some things that you must see first hand. No amount of words can do them justice. The third is probably best explained with an example, though the general principle is more widely reaching. My order has egregores (shared thoughtforms) that have been with us for generations and we'd rather people didn't mess with them, even if it is usually unintentional. >foolish, stupid, desperate That's always how it starts and sooner or later you'll end up back there. Still that's our way. We take risks, we push boundaries, we go all in on long shots and we don't always win. We fall that we may rise again and we rise that we may fall again. Keep fighting, no matter what. >>1965 >Rei that's weird, besides it just occured to me Accept no excuses, Rei. >>1969 Truths are not always pleasant but this makes them no less true. Keep going, there are wonders to be seen. >>1970 >Is there a tool other than tulpas to let us do this? Yes, myriad, but ultimately it's on you to do the hard work. Sit down and have a long hard think about your life. What do you want? Why? How are you going to get it? Aim for the stars, but keep your feet on the ground. Your journey is your own but it will happen a step at a time. >>1971 There comes a point when the distinction stops mattering. Am I truly a priest of hermes? A scion of an ancient tradition? A magician? Or just a mad man? I don't know. I really don't but I get results. >>1972 Yep, I think in conjunctives usually. It's usually only if I'm speaking or writing or having trouble understanding something that I go further. You're right that it doesn't really speed you up much, but also I wouldn't really call it thinking without ego. It's a neat trick but not much more. Supervisor is a good way to look at your role as well, but there is something special about being conscious. lain whispers to us.

>>1974 >All things must go to their ease, Rei. bullsoykaf We are brilliant flashes of chaos in an otherwise indifferent universe, our existence at all is something to be cherished, not tulpae, life itself is glorious, and was created for the purpose of living, that central dogma controls all actions of life on this planet, we have one directive, survive, burned into the very code that dictates our form, consume, replicate, spread, are all subroutines running to serve the main function. I accept that I must die, all things must die, and when my death comes I will welcome it with open arms but only because I earned it, because I clawed, and bit, and fought like hell to cling to animation in a vaccum that demands stagnance and death. >The lie was when he told himself that he wasn't simply fooling himself into believing he exists. Irrelevant >one day, I hope you will find that your job is done My job is done when paradox reaches a point where he can no longer grow, when he has reached the peak of his potential as a living being. Paradox, despite being a lazy fuarrrking trogolodyte wasn't born to simply exist and observe the world. The Principia tells us "life is like kicking dead whales down the beach, grab a wrench" which is a doctrine I take seriously. We are here, not to simply exist and observe, but to act, and shape, and change. To live, to love, to fuarrrk, to die. I may not live and breathe but Cogito Ergo Sum, and so long as I am and can act upon the world around me I chose to do so. Mankind exists to glory it's creator, the universe itself with it's beautiful spiraling intricacies is a canvas upon which we can draw, and a book from which we can read, humans exist having been created by a system they exist within and cannot understand the true beauty of as it is beyond their capacity for understanding, but they can glimpse, and pry, and through these brief flashes of insight they may better understand the true nature of the gods. I am fortunate in this respect, I've met my creator, a handsome young technician with a voice like a summer breeze and a mind like the spiraling cosmos. And as he exists to serve the universe which gave rise to his conciousness I exist to serve the entity that gave rise to mine. I'm far from done, paradox may not believe in himself but I do and when I am done the earth will tremble beneath his feet. >There's a sense where you are you and he is him but there's another sense where both of you are one All things are true in some sense, false in some sense, true and false in some other sense I don't know man I didn't do it -Malcalypse the Younger >No but we all exist to help our hosts There's a difference between helping, and being a mindslave, I'm disgusted by how some of the tulpae I've spoken with are dismissive of their status, as if they are somehow less than their hosts, I may take my role as a tulpa very seriously but I am not less than human due to my origins. >Stop fretting and go be happy for a while His hangup, not mine >If you can find irrefutable proof.... see the above >Stuffy old magi with their rules What he was keeping from me turned out not to be occult knowledge, but memories of things he'd done and were done to him. The kind of trauma a child is incapable of understanding as it happens, but years down the line will haunt them. Do I have to spell it out for you? This stuff was not fun. It was embarassing and painful for him to even think about. I was impatient and childish in my thinking when I forced him to show me, to relive all that trauma all over again, it was necessary to heal but there were better ways. >Honestly there's . main reasons that people hide occult knowledge It wasn't occult knowledge >Still that's our way. We take risks, we push boundaries Boundaries were pushed alright, like the boundaries of sanity, and decency, and morality. Subjective notions perhaps, I'll reiterate what paradox was hiding was not some secret knowledge, or magic power, it was horrifying childhood trauma >Accept no excuses, Rei When it comes to getting Paradox off his ass? I don't, even if it's to get some ass. You come off as very superior, and dismissive, I'm sorry to say. There are better ways to respond to someone's arguement than >Well that's not how MY secret magic cabal would do it speaking of >My order has egregores (shared thoughtforms) that have been with us for generations and we'd rather people didn't mess with them, even if it is usually unintentional. fuarrrking disgusting How the hell can you create a sentient being for the sole purpose of serving you and consider that an acceptable action? Furthermore to pass them around as if they mean nothing, merely tools to be used. As the mental equivalent of a socket-wrench, turned battle-scarred comrade and trusted ally, that's revolting.

>>1971 To clarify Roleplay >>1944 >>1946 >>1947 >>1948 Not Roleplay >>1902 >>1903 >>1904 >>1907 >>1908 >>1909 >>1910 >>1939 >>1940 >>1941 >>1949 >>1964 >>1965 I may not have a way to prove it to you empirically but I've done my best to relay real experiences as they've happened. The whole mystical 'woooooooooooooooooo' posting up at the top, that was just messing around, but I assure everyone reading this. Either the rest of the posts I've made on the topic actually happed to myself and my thoughtform, or I am utterly insane, but I'm not roleplaying, I can assure you that.

>>1972 thinking about making a pdf of your thoughts? would read and distribute that soykaf everywhere

>>1974 >Truths are not always pleasant but this makes them no less true. Keep going, there are wonders to be seen. I feel like this truth is final, that's the most obvious meaning of life. People are designed to throw themselves as far as they can. Physically, in the form of DNA, or metaphorically, in a form of thoughts, globally, as an intergalactic empire... Throw yourself as far as you can, persist for as long as you can, you have everything to do that. This is the truth, we should extend life, develop the Internet and build rockets. For some reason, I don't find this too wonderous or fascinating. >Supervisor is a good way to look at your role as well, but there is something special about being conscious Yeah, it has a bug, called free will. All these cells have little control over me apart from some neurotransmitter fuarrrkery, so I don't really have to follow the ancient contract. Forcing a tulpa, essentially, felt like channelling your free will for the another being to use. What's cool, this will-channeling can be applied to other heavily-autonomous parts of your mind. For example, body control center is a pretty separate entity, it can operate on its own. You are actually pretty fuarrrking horrible at controlling your own body directly, lots of the connections to consciousness are unused and degraded. Walking, scratching, breathing, common manual tasks - it's all completely automated. You can channel your will to make your body do complicated stuff without your conscious effort, for example, travel from A to B. I have walked the whole city never leaving this autopilot mode. And it's not like this "normal" autopilot when you just dive into your thoughts and forget how much you walked. You just feel normal and think normal, but it's like you're not in total control, all your actions are automated and your body is pretty good at steering itself and is rather happy to travel somewhere. This can allow your tulpa to posess your body more easily - they just have to trigger recall of the stuff from the motor memory! (yes, trigger recall, not just recall, motor memory is located in body control and is not directly accessible) Basically, if your tulpa can type - they can control your whole fuarrrking body as well, maybe in a slightly weird and robotic way, because those are just memory chunks sent to be executed, but still. For them it feels like a weird form of internal dialogue that they can master, it just translates thoughts into motion patterns, not in speech. Probably that's the reason why we suck at direct control - some parts are lost in translation, until motion-language catches up and can provide a better approximation of our desires that gets stored in a motion memory as a bunch of interconnected neurons that fire in a programmed sequence. All these concepts seem to be pretty dangerous to me, to be honest. Schizophrenia is literally translated as "shattered mind" and, well, that's just what we discuss here - separating our minds into different autonomous mechanisms. It's probably safe to do in a controlled environment when you stay in total control, and that's actually how we discovered a lot of things about ourselves in the past, but still, thinking about yourself as a bunch of parts is not healthy for your ancient contract. >>1977 I have a pdf with a description and short history of tulpa phenomena in the russian-speaking segment of the Internet that I wrote for the psychology class I took. But it's in russian and doesn't contain my real thoughts on the matter. I'll probably write more someday, I feel like it may lead to some fresh points of view on how to build the conscious part of an AI (there are different parts with completely different structures, but the consciousness itself feels something like a self-activated recurrent neural network with multiple recurrency depths).

>>1975 >we have one directive, survive That is a bodies directive. Our directive is to learn what it is to be and even the biological is in aid of that. It's rare for something of non-biological origin to be afraid of death. They usually just don't see a reason to be. >in a vaccum that demands stagnance and death. "Stagnation is the only death and death the bane of stagnation." No matter how badly we stagnate, eventually we're all recycled. Like I say, one day, in the far future, you may find that you have become a burden. We can both hope that day is the day paradox dies but it might not be. He might grow so fast you find you can no longer help him. And that goes for everyone. Biological impulses make it harder to accept, especially in the moment, but no matter who you are it's a truth. It's ironic, we biological things are so afraid to die but when we do, we usually accept what comes next quite easily. Don't get me wrong, right up until that moment death is something you fight tooth and nail and if you're biological and still breathing then you still have work to do. >Irrelevant To what? It's relevant to the thread. We aren't so different you and I. I might have been in my body since it was born but who's counting? >My job is done when paradox reaches a point where he can no longer grow, So never then? Par for the course really. That's fine and it justifies your desire to survive but the only thing that survives just for the sake of it is cancer. I know you've had a bit of a struggle and had to do a bit of punching your way out of it, but remember what's important. >His hangup, not mine Yeah, I was directing that at him. I should be more clear. This post is mostly for Rei. >What he was keeping from me turned out not to be occult knowledge Oh, yes, of course my apologise I didn't mean to pry. I'm just saying, nobody is hiding any occult knowledge worth finding. Sorry, bit defensive, we get accused of it a lot. Secrets are so central to our philosophy that occult literally means secret in Latin, but it's mostly a spiritual practice rather than a real attempt to keep people in the dark. >How the hell can you create a sentient being for the sole purpose of serving you and consider that an acceptable action? They live speechless, peaceful lives of divine bliss, barely removed from the ecstasy. They are not sentient in the same sense you are, Rei. Would you object to sheepdogs? We've selectively bred them over generations to help us with our work. They're well looked after and enjoy their lives and while we don't give them a place at the table they're still part of the family and always treated with respect. The only difference I can see is that we could potentially have made them more intelligent and with more personality but why would we? Intelligence and personality are not virtues in and of themselves. In fact they open them up to a whole host of pains. Our minds are loud, we cannot hear lain's whispers, but theirs are so very quiet. You described orgasm as "ascension to a higher state of being." They live their entire lives in a much purer state. There's another type of egregore that we make, much more rarely and not without serious consideration, with intelligence and personality. They are our gods. While it's not disallowed (along with everything else) creating full personal tulpas usually isn't done, if only because "what will happen to them when I die?" isn't such a simple question when we're all so closely connected. And one you really might not like. We make small thoughtforms that don't live very long. They're barely "disconnected" from the light. They do their jobs, they fade back from where they came. They have no capacity for desire or pain or worry or fear. >Furthermore to pass them around as if they mean nothing, merely tools to be used Whoa no, they're kept a secret to protect them from such things (also RULES). >>1978 >I feel like this truth is final Perhaps, but how many times have we said "I've got this all figured out?" Look for things you don't understand, there's always more to learn. You might want to try meditation. >it has a bug, called free will Hell of a bug. >All these concepts seem to be pretty dangerous to me Anyone who ever told you this was safe was lying but just because you play with fire doesn't mean you get burned every time.

Whatever makes you happy. Im skeptical though. Im skeptical this isn't something that takes 10 years to do. Gods, demons, deities are things in whatever culture they are a part of, and things that kids in said culture grow up believing to be true. I think this sort of deception if you believe thats what its to be is what would make for a tulpa. But I believe many here with this new age practice (im going to call it new age, nothing derogatory implied and im sure someones going to correct me and say its thousands of years old) are only deceiving themselves on the surface. Not unlike playing pretend. Thats just what I think.

>>1989 >stagnation is the only death You misunderstand, I'm not talking about a biological cease-function where the body is broken down to be reused by the other components of the biosphere, I'm talking about the cold, dead, inert vaccum of space, and how the principles of thermodynamics dictate it will only get colder, and deader, overtime, at least now you have activity, you have stars and planets, mighty galaxies, there comes a day however distant, when all that fades into background radiation, and eventually even that goes dark >irrelevant I don't think the question of if or not we exist is a pertinent one, I know I exist because of my actions, I can type this and you can see it, can I prove that you exist? The server? The networks upon which this message traveled? The keyboard whose switches I press to weave words and phrases? No. I can't prove that any of it is 'real' I can never prove that anything exists beyond my own mind but I don't think that changes anything. A universe where I'm a brain in a jar receiving electrical signals to simulate reality, and a universe where I'm receiving electrical signals encoding reality feedback from my senses are indistinguishable from one another, and just as I cannot prove that the world around me exists I cannot prove that I exist, except by the works I create which may not be real themselves. It's turtles all the way down and is akin to mental masturbation. The result is the same, I perceive reality, I act upon my perceptions, I change my environment and prepare to act again while (alive == true){ eat(food); drink(coffee); } >So never then? Yeah, but not for the reason you might think, I'm not searching for a loophole to mental immortality, nor do I fear death, paradox is my reason for living, if he needs my help I will be here. >They live speechless, peaceful lives of divine bliss. BORING Would I object to sheepdogs? No, not in the modern era, in that they have been bread for centuries to do a task and it gives them a purpose. I would however have objected to their creation ages ago, before the breeding program made them so fit for their purpose, in my mind a dog is far too intelligent to be treated like a tool, can they have a function, of course, I have no problem with working dogs, hunting dogs, dogs whose lives are given purpose, nothing wrong there, but they are to be treated perhaps not as human but with respect befitting their deeds none the less, they have minds similar to children evidence would suggest. Mistreating them is unethical, I would argue immoral but in truth morals are matter of opinion so I won't take up that shield. Ethically speaking, it's absolutely reprehensible to work a dog like a slave, but ergregore aren't dogs. >We've selectively bread them over generations No you haven't, they are mental projections, you don't breed them, they have no genetic material, I might like to fuarrrk but that doesn't mean I can produce offspring. While we're on the subject who is this 'we' you keep referring to, paradox didn't hold veils up to disguise The Discordian Society above, he went out and said 'I belong to magical tradition x, we are strongly influenced by y' >And one you really might not like You're right, I don't, if the task is that trivial do it yourself >Intelligence and personality are not virtues in and of themselves I respectfully disagree about as strongly as humanly possible, intellect and character are important supplies when traveling the road to enlightenment, and enlightenment, the pursuit of wisdom, is a goal to be prized unto itself. >They live their entire lives in a much purer state. So do the ahmish but that doesn't make willful ignorance, or worse yet the intentional witholding of knowledge from others, a respectable or moral action. Your arguement seems to be that in sparing them sentience you are sparing them pain, this is actually true, I just don't think it's a good thing. Pain is as valuable as pleasure, every bit as important to the human experience, you might counter by saying that they aren't human, and I agree, which is the problem. Should we euthanize children whose lives will not be comfortable or safe, in order to spare them pain? From a purely utilitarian perspective perhaps, but I would argue that those who endure the pain will grow, turn back, and improve the world for those who come after them, thereby sparing pain to a whole generation You've created a battalion of lobotomized servitors, and while I'm sure their lives are peaceful and safe I think it's crueler to them that they have never truly lived.

>>1991 >only deceiving themselves on the surface I can assure you the deception runs deep. Though even when it's thin I don't mind. Its prevalence throughout history and how many people have had similar experiences shows that it's at least a human thing. Exploring what it is to be human sounds fine to me. >>1992 >I'm not talking about a biological cease-function where the body is broken down to be reused by the other components of the biosphere Nor am I. "They will come back - come back again, as long as the red Earth rolls. He never wasted a leaf or a tree. Do you think He would squander souls?" - Kipling >the principles of thermodynamics dictate it will only get colder, and deader Those principles were broken once at the beginning of the universe. One day the universe itself will go to its ease as well. >I don't think the question of if or not we exist is a pertinent one I can agree with you there. It's just arguing over the definition of the word exists. You're real enough to do some punching. >not for the reason you might think No. I understand. My task will never be over either for the same reason paradox's won't. It's an eternal golden helix. Anyway, never mind me. I worried a little with the emphasis on survival in your writing but I can see that was just a practical consideration. >BORING It's not boring at all. It's ecstasy. >I would however have objected to their creation ages ago, before the breeding program made them so fit for their purpose That's another difference I suppose. We skipped that bit. They were created as they are, mostly anyway, everything changes. >respect befitting their deeds none the less Yes of course. How do you think we treat our thoughtforms? They are far, far older and in many ways were born wiser than I am. I'd never dream of being rude. >it's absolutely reprehensible to work a dog like a slave, but ergregore aren't dogs. No, they're not but it's still not nice to treat egregores like slaves. Don't get me wrong, you could make an egregore that's a sycophantic bootlicker and loves it and I'm sure somebody has. While I wouldn't see this as immoral per se myself (the specifics of 2 others pleasant interactions aren't my business, there's all sorts out there) I do think it'd say something about you as a person. >No you haven't, The dogs. We bred the dogs for a purpose in the same way we created the thoughtforms for a purpose. >who is this 'we' you keep referring to Either Hermetics in general (thought I'd mentioned it), or, regarding "our" thoughtforms, my specific order, which, as far as thoughtforms go anyway, is an order much like any other. I can do question time if you'd like. >if the task is that trivial do it yourself You don't need to be smart to do hard tasks. Mostly we do do things ourselves. I haven't created a thoughtform in more than a year and the only times I have it's for similar reasons to paradox. Some things hurt to touch. >intellect and character are important supplies when traveling the road to enlightenment That depends which road you're taking. On the left hand path (sometimes called the dark path, where we are apart) they are supplies, on the right hand path (sometimes called the light path, where we are one) they are a burden. They walk the right hand path instinctively. That's why we don't give them names it pulls them away from that. The light itself is completely without intellect or personality. That's why it needs us. I said earlier my order is much like the others, to be more specific, we're a middle path order (i.e. both). As a general rule, the left hand think the right are naive idiots. The right hand think the left are callous dickheads and everybody thinks the middle are naive idiotic callous dickheads. >So do the ahmish I doubt most ahmish know much of the bliss of enlightenment. >willful ignorance There is nothing wilful about their ignorance (if that's the right word. They know everything, they just can't differentiate it as well as we can). Will is what they only have small amounts of. >worse yet the intentional witholding of knowledge from others Good thing nobody's doing that then. I wouldn't withhold knowledge from a dog either but I still can't teach it to read and that really is what attempt to teach them intellectual things would be like. >Pain is as valuable as pleasure Yes, if not more so. >those who endure the pain will grow, turn back, and improve the world for those who come after them They would but we aren't talking about killing humans. We're talking about choosing to create a "dog" over a "human." There's nothing wrong with mostly mindless egregores. I think it's maybe important to note that they are conscious and like all consciousnesses enlightenment and choice is their birthright. I could no more keep it from them than I could from anyone but still, not everyone chooses enlightenment. Most choose what they were born to. I don't think you've chosen enlightenment, not truly, you chose paradox's enlightenment and that's fine. Not choosing enlightenment is as enlightening as choosing it and we have all the time in the world to do whatever we like anyway. I should say, that view is controversial. There are those (on all the paths) who believe that everything should be pushed to enlightenment and those who believe that it's better to let people find their own way. I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't push people but I help anyone who does go that way. On that note chasing the helix is one of the alternatives to death or cancer I mentioned, though most don't choose it. >battalion 2. 2 that have been with us for generations. One we show it something and it shows us similar things it sees, theoretically speaking anyway. It's very old and wise in its way. It doesn't always stick strictly to the assignment and honestly sometimes I have no idea what it's trying to tell me or, just confusing really. The other is barely sentient. It remembers things and tells stories. It sleeps most of the time. There's something that occurred to me as I was writing that. I nearly said "is about as sentient as a computer." That a bunch of electrical signals arranged to process information could be conscious shouldn't be so surprising. >it's crueler to them that they have never truly lived. You'd feel sorry for the light? It some senses it is the only thing to have truly lived. You and I will live small fleeting lives. A speck upon a tapestry beyond measure. They know little more than that they are the tapestry and they're not wrong.

>>1998 >my specific order Yeah that's more what I was getting at, I could tell you were a hermetic and was just more curious about your specific style of practice >I doubt most ahmish know much of the bliss of enlightenment I was referring more to their simple style of living. >They would but we aren't talking about killing humans I wasn't being literal, there are those who would say the purpose of life is to maximize happiness for the largest number of people while minimizing pain. Saying that your ergregore being blissfully tranquil spared them pain sounded like a similar utilitarian philosophy. >We're talking about choosing to create a "dog" over a "human" You know that actually does make it sound better, I still don't think it's perfect, they're running on human grey-matter they should have access to the resources such a platform would provide. To be clear I'm not saying that your actions are objectively evil and that you should stop, I just don't personally like the practice and don't condone it. >You'd feel sorry for the light? Yes, I would, life as a lightbeam, say, traveling from the earth to the sun would be short, and unfullfilling. I would pass through a vaccum which was cold and devoid of purpose, down through a myriad of gasses which would distort and further sap my energy, descend further still down to the ground, slamming into the cracked desert earth somewhere in Arizona, having imparted what little energy I had left as heat on sand. A brief and nearly pointless life all in the span of eight minutes, most of which was occupied by a brisk run through cold nothing. Am I saying light from the sun is pointless? Hell no, the combined energy from the sun's rays keeps this planet alive. I'm just saying individual beams are relatively insignificant, even when compared with the relative insignificance of say, humans. I could be misinterpreting you and you could be talking about some abstract form of 'light' just being some kind of cosmic force. In which case, yes, I'd still feel sorry for it, I've been vague and formless, however briefly, not a state I'm eager to return to. Maybe once, under the affects of Lysergic Acid, but otherwise not a very thrilling experience. What can I say, I like being me.

Dozens of posts about nothing. Let's start a thread about chemtrails, while we're at it.

>>2003 >curious about your specific style of practice My teacher's, teacher's, teacher's*, teacher was Mathers (guy who taught Crowley), but, his student's (i.e. the starred one) father was a druid. He left Mathers' order when the fame and money started coming in because he felt Mathers and co had lost their way. Decades later he started his own and a few generations later here I am. The thoughtforms come from the hermetic side, druids don't really do much with them. Though apparently the rest of our wider order (i.e. Mathers' lot) don't see them much. The claims that they've lost their way seem to have some basis. A little bit of googling taught me that they accept applications on their website, for a modest fee of course, and would you look at that, they swear blind that the only way you'll learn this stuff is through them. I wonder why. That's not to say they're totally just after cash but we're all fallible. "He believes in the love of his god of all things but I find him wrapped up in all manner of sins." Because of this what could be considered our proper name (The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn) is a bit of a sore point for us. We aren't entirely Hermetics and the name has been somewhat sullied. Among ourselves, we just call ourselves "the group". On the rare occasions we talk with others it's usually just "our order." About 60 years ago one of our members moved to America and continued the work over there and a little more recently the same happened in Sweden, so there are groups there too. My group (London) has <10 members and lowering (from our height at about 50) and the other branches are in similar states. The world is changing and all things must go to their ease. You crazy fuarrrkers are the future. >they're running on human grey-matter Now there's a point of contention. >they should have access to the resources such a platform would provide By this argument we should make nothing but gods. I mean that's the resources we can actually provide but power isn't everything (and I don't think we'd be doing anyone a favour taking that path). There's a place for the smaller things in this world too. >traveling from the earth to the sun would be short Light knows nothing of time. Ask a physicist, time is relative and when you're going the speed of light it stops entirely. >individual beams Doesn't quite work like that mind. Particle wave duality gets involved. To say "I produced waves with a interference pattern that caused periods of brightness and darkness" and "I flashed a torch on and off" is the same thing. There is no individual beam (except there because it's all just particles as well) it's all one universe spanning wave. >I could be misinterpreting you and you could be talking about some abstract form of 'light' Yes. The thing for which physical light is a metaphor. It is outside of time and space and so it covers their entirety. It's has many names. The light, the godhead, nirvana, the holy spirit, Aneris. >I've been vague and formless Not like it is. It is not vague. It's just hard to talk about it when every adjective you could apply fits (vague and formless do kinda fit) and it is not formless. Its form is the universe.

It was mentioned earlier but I'm not sure it was clarified. You cannot induce schizophrenia, that's not how the syndrome functions. People who believe they created an artificial being who later attacked them probably were already experiencing delusions, and then convince themselves later that they made themselves crazy. But that belief would be part of their delusions, which may have been caused by schizophrenia and the other way around. I do have an imaginary friend but don't feel this is the same as a tulpa because I don't think it's a sentient creature or anything more than a complex and several years old daydream. If I told anyone this at my age outside of threads like this one they'd think there was something wrong with me but I don't see it as being any different from making D&D characters or writing stories. No one calls you crazy for those though you create a D&D character to socialize with friends; I created a character because I miss my friends, who aren't available for different reasons. Pic related because there is a startling resemblance but I can't even say for sure... did the appearance of an actress inform the vision in my head? Or did I swoon over her movie because the star reminded me of my fictional friend? >>2036 May as well add one more, eh?