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Lains, where do you draw the line between wanting privacy/anonymity and wanting to reap the benefits of social media, dating sites etc? I've been struggling with it lately. On one hand I feel walled off and isolated, on the other I feel safe.

I guess that depends on how much you want to be a part of the wide vast array of people who align themselves with youthful society. When in rome do as the romans do.

i feel like if i cave in and gave up my values for facebook i would lose a major part of what defines me. what am i if i dont have any values?

>>1118 If what defines you is your fb profile you have some serious problems

>benefits of social media, dating sites yeah no

Talk to people irl, problem solved. For me, there is no point in keeping a contact whom I don't see regularly, and if I do see them often, then I don't need to keep a catalogue of my friendships in the databases of 3 letter agencies

I don't have to draw that line because I don't want to reap the benefits of social media. I don't even know what those benefits would be. As terrible as privacy concerns are on social media, the real reason you should stay away is because it's a time sink, or worse. I remember a thread a while back where people were discussing their addictions to social media and the ease of digital communication in general, where they felt like they had to be talking to someone at all times. At some point it becomes meaningless noise and you feel more isolated than ever even though you're in constant communication with 5+ people. I couldn't really relate, but I can see that sort of thing in some people I know. It doesn't look healthy. Just manage your relationships without it. You're not missing out on any enlightening conversations or deep personal connections. It's all noise.

>>1121 >>1123 what do you do when people only plan stuff through facebook groups?

>>1119 I think you miss the point, it's not having FB or not having FB that define you, but your attitudes towards FB and other sites definitely form a part of who you are, and if your attitudes are totally fluid then what does that make you? - if it doesn't make you a pragmatist, it makes you gutless.

>>1126 Be more proactive. My friends only plan stuff through facebook but I still go because I go out of my way to get in touch and ask what's going on.

>>1131 If I text people every weekend asking them for the heads up, they just tell me "we put it on FB" and eventually get sick of me asking. Every single one of my friends is involved with music and with events involving 100-200 people they don't have time to communicate with everyone. People just start treating it like a hassle, like you want special treatment. No one makes paper flyers anymore. There are community websites with anouncement boards and no one posts on them. I don't think we live very similar lives, you and I. OP seems to get it though.

>>1099 > the benefits of social media, dating sites etc? Compartmentalize you shoycaff! Be pseudonymous if you need to, facebook doesn't really verify your identity.

benefits from social media? that's nonexistant better to keep yourself off the grid

Isolation is a very bad idea for most people. Seriously, it is really bad. Give out as much information that allows you to have fun. It's not going to make you vulnerable.

I don't like online dating or social media, so I virtually never participate in them. I'm doing okay, although there are still good reasons to remain paranoid while online. Not using social media on a daily basis isn't going to stop any and all chances.

>>1137 >facebook doesn't really verify your identity LMAO they literally require photo id or passport, fuarrrk outa here

>>1164 Not if you don't want to verify your identity.

>>1120 Are you really willing to stay a virgin forever instead of sacrificing a little bit of privacy?

>>1099 the main benefit to me of not having social media is the immunity to doxxing it provides. that said, i made a facebook yesterday to connect with old friends. max privacy levels, no information about me put up there other than what's required

>>1169 Who says you need to use a dating site to find sex? That's actually not how most of us find it.

>>1175 >>That's actually not how most of us find it. >neurosuggesting this isnt a cybperpunk version of wizchan

>>1178 Um... actually it's not. Judging by the variety of opinions and experiences expressed here I'd say you might even be in the minority. Some people here are even married or have had kids.

>>1180 not everyone has a workplace conducive to meeting girls not everyone lives in the city not everyone has a lot of time or money for social clubs. Not saying your way wouldn't be ideal, but there are benefits for a lot of us.

>>1181 I wasn't slagging off online dating in the first place, Lain. I was jus' sayin' that you don't automatically remain a virgin for not using it. Then I was telling some other Lain that not everyone here IS a virgin. Y'all so defensive, mang...

I have a phone and I text people with it. That's where I draw the line.

>>1183 That's what I do too. What bothers me is that everyone I know seems annoyed by me using text messages to communicate instead of whatsapp, facebook or whatever they use. It also bothers me that sms isn't encrypted.

>>1187 That's interesting... people get annoyed that I don't have FB but everyone still uses text for casual, whatsup sort of interactions. There isn't wifi covering every square centimeter of this town though, that's probably not the case where you live.

>>1197 yeah most of my friends just use texting to keep in touch. I know people who use exclusively snapchat but generally those people aren't close to me

>>1137 they don't need to. they infer it algorithmically from the data your contacts provide.

>>1215 That's the part that freaks me out. They keep shadow profiles on people who've never had accounts at all. Begging the question, if FB does this then what info do the feds collect on people who don't have social media? Because simply put, not having social media makes us suspicious automatically.

>>1119 the lain you're replying to doesn't have a facebook, as per their post. read, THEN reply; and/or don't be a jerk.

>>1099 >>1131 While there isn't a plug-and-play solution, I agree with this lain. >>1132 It's important to remember that the channels you use to communicate with your people is a part of the relationship that you develop with them. Developing your freindships will mean that it's more worth their while to go the extra step for you,. Also, Networking offline is harder/more complex than with an online SAS utility like facebook, (hence the prevalence of social media) and that's just the trade off for privacy that a lain has to accept.

>>1216 It does. But it's better to be look suspicious than be dead to rights!

>>1218 > Developing your freindships will mean that it's more worth their while to go the extra step for you,. I don't think I gave you the whole picture. Outside of a few websites like this one, I have no friends at all outside of local music events and in fact seem unable to even HAVE friends in another context. What you're saying isn't exactly wrong but... I don't know, it's not something I can really act on. People use FB or nothing, period. I can't really change them. Maybe I'm not important enough for them to put that extra effort in.

>>1220 I don't know your situation and I don't want sound like I think your problem is trivial, but jsyk I'm a crazy wackadoo person and even I have a few good peeps. It took me a few years of practice and attention to learn how to maintain better relationships, though. Don't give up, lain ;)

>>1220 Protip: you don't want to be friends with people who only use social media. They're boring.

>>1220 >Maybe I'm not important enough for them to put that extra effort in. Im in the same situation, its important to not let your low-self esteem handicap you into isolation. just text them and ask if they are up to something. Besides, friendships that can develop without social media should be more worthwhile than those exclusively through social media.

>>1221 I think I may be older than I probably sounded up there. It's been a long time for me, that's the only way I've been able to connect with people my whole life. >>1222 But that's everyone. >>1223 Self esteem is a problem, true. But when I was younger we didn't even need texts, you just called and made plans, or dropped by, or just walked around until you saw someone. Now everyone has Organized Fun(TM) or they are home watching Netflix with their girl/boyfriend.

>>1224 You are just making excuses anon, you can still do that just fine. Of course you need to find people who arent too much normal people but hopefully thats what you want

>>1225 I'm not making excuses. That is the stock answer for everything on imageboards. You really don't know what this town is like, it was dull enough before everyone I was close to moved away. I don't have the resources to do the same.

>>1224 I've noticed the phenomenon you're talking about too. It used to be so easy to strike conversations with people in public and it was looked at as the normal thing to do, but now everyone is super stand-offish and everything is pre-planned.

>>1227 Someone asked me for the time recently and I gave her a blank stare for about three seconds until my brain processed the request. It wasn't anxiety, I'm just used to everyone having a phone; except old people who still wear a watch. I cannot remember the last time someone asked the time. Plus I was in the middle of typing something, which is the other part of this phenomenon of course. Maybe I should volunteer at a place for seniors. Maybe I should move into one.

>>1224 >But that's everyone no it's not. You're just not looking hard enough.

>>1228 > I'm just used to everyone having a phone; except old people who still wear a watch. you calling me old?

>>1241 Uh... where the hell should I be looking? Every-damn-thing in this town is promoted on FB. Everything. There's meetup.com and so on, with nothing of note on those sites ever. Should I be running up to strangers in the street and asking them to be my friend or something?

>>1268 Yes, you should totally do that. Id be your friend if you asked me in the street.

>>1269 Ignoring your obvious sarcasm let me explain. People here will walk to the other side of the park to sit on an empty bench rather than sit on one where a stranger is already sitting. Waiting for the bus, people line up ten feet away from each other. The only time a stranger talks to you, they turn out to be a (literal) schizophrenic.

>>1270 It's a soykaf world we live in now, and it's probably only going to get worse....

>>1270 Is this a joke about Finland or your actual experience? I regularly speak with random strangers here

>>1271 protip: the world has always been this way, people just have rose-colored goggles on.

>>1588 I'm surprised this thread is still here. Where did I say I was from Finland? I'm not.

>>1099 >benefits of social media and dating sites Ah yes, because more meaningless distractions and opportunity for women to laugh at you is totally worth it.

>>1099 I use facebook to talk with people, but I do not upload pictures or give out personal info of any kind. you want a private digital conservation? use IRC

>>1099 Its easy to stay away from dating sites when you know nobody will want you anyway.

>>1169 Firstly: >>1175 Secondly: sex isn't that great; you're not missing out on much.

>>1672 >sex isn't that great but the abscence of it is fuarrrking agonizing

>>1674 That's because you care. Stop caring. It will benefit you.

>>1676 You can only stop caring after you've tried at least once.

>>1677 lies

>reap the benefits of social media, dating sites etc? ...

>>1681 I draw the line pretty easily because there is no advantage or benefit to using "social media" that I suspect youre talking about. However this image board is social media. A lot of websites / services are social media. IRC is social media as well. I guess basically, I tend to only use social media that respects my freedom / anonymity. pic not related.

>>1187 Why wouldn't you want to use whatsapp? You can basically make it function as encrypted SMS. >>1270 >>1593 Where do you live? I won't disagree that people generally prefer to keep to themselves in their day-to-day activity, but I've had plenty of conversations with strangers on a park bench, bus, the grocery store, etc.

>>1706 >Why wouldn't you want to use whatsapp? my only beef is that it's facebook-controlled. I usually recommend signal instead. Besides that it's excellent.

>>1797 Not him, but that's one of my only complaints too. The other being that it automatically adds all contacts it finds in your phone.

in whatsapp you dont control the private keys and they can be intercepted by the trusted third party.

>>1132 I struggled with a similar situation; my university posts most of its announcements on Facebook and Twitter. Also, most of the campus organizations post their events and announcements on Facebook. What I decided to do is make a Facebook account with only my name, phone number and an email that I don't use; I didn't upload a profile picture, didn't add more than 7 friends, didn't post any info about myself or my interests in the "about" section, didn't install the app on my phone and didn't tell many people about my account. I mostly use my facebook to keep track of my uni's announcements and other important things, but I have never posted anything, liked, shared or commented on anything. I really hate that my uni forces us to use Facebook. Richard Stallman comes to mind when he mentioned that schools that use proprietary software are making their students dependent on this software. Using Facebook for posting important info is very similar to that.

>>1806 If they use facebook to post important general info it should be a public forum so you don't need to make an account to view it. For your current situation you could set up an RSS feed to receive messages posted so you never have to actually look at facebook and just contain it in your preferred RSS reader and not add friends so no expectation to look at anything else. The fact they required you to use facebook involuntarily (as opposed to clubs) is sickening. As usual, people just don't realise how effective freedom respecting alternatives can be or the existence of them.

I'd say it depends but I am against it. One hand you need facebook for certain things or you may get blacklisted from certain things in real life, on the other the entire time it feels like its prepping you as cattle to be sold at auction, keeping things kosher when you use it. I stopped getting angry at these companies for their censorship when I realized they did warn people, they warned them all about what they do and how they do it and why(its their tos) and that they'd give warnings but the entire time it feels like I was beef being corrected into the right pasture. And on the other hand. It gives you a way of reconnecting with certain folks or staying up on stuff back home. It acts as a good way of connecting bullsoykaf accounts together so you don't have to have a million(most people don't know about things like guerillamail) and they're generally garbage at maintaining passwords. But rationally I'll give the warning to anyone who is smart enough to take it, if you have kids, or are a kid, get fuarrrk off that soykaf, learn opsec start practicing it, it won't protect you from the nsa but it will help you in the long run, its like brushing your teeth and exercise theres a lot of benefit to it. Social media is junk food you're better off if you don't start and things get better when you drop it.

>>1807 I don't know why I didn't think of using RSS before; thanks for the idea, anon! :) Still, there is the problem that most student organizations use private groups, especially if you're part of the staff; I am part of the IT club's staff at my uni and they have a private group for the staff to discuss new events, ideas, etc.

I've very seriously considered giving up social media lately. My core group of friends would still be accessible via text messages and Skype so I wouldn't have to worry about being too alone. I waste too much time on Facebook and the like pointlessly chatting with people who I know wouldn't hit me up unprompted if I just vanished. This may sound dumb but I am old enough to remember an internet before social media and though it sounds like I'm a bitter, old fuarrrk shaking his fist at clouds, life was just better before it. Even if it's just me fading into the background, I wonder if cutting it out of my life, even if just for a six-month trial run, might not improve every aspect of everything for me. Has anyone else here tried this?

>>1808 I can appreciate this sentiment so very much.

>>1828 I'm not sure what you'd consider an improvement. But I've never regretted giving up social media. I don't miss talking to most people in those sites nor read their inane ramblings. Realize that you'll most likely lose contact with a lot of people and grow distant from the rest, with all that it implies. If you think you can bear with it then go ahead. In my case, it was hard at the beginning but got used to it. To the point that just thinking of going back to use those services makes me want to hurl. On the bright side, you'll have more time to focus on things that matter to you and none of the drama that takes place in social media.

>>1828 yes, it has all the strengths and weaknesses you'd expect. Feel more free, get to focus on a lot of other things and life becomes simpler. Also fulfilling to be true to yourself and realize it's the right way forward. At the same time you're giving up a lot of peoples preferred modus operandi for chatting / disseminating information. People for whom tech is not a hobby are super resistant to trying new / more open forms of messaging or social media too; because there isnt significant press behind it.

>>1831 This is some real talk.

I dont give a soykaf about privacy. If I am arrested or killed because of something I said that reflects more on society than it does on me and I wouldn't want to die any other way. Theres lots of things you could say are retarded and make assumptions about my character based on that but I can say whatever happens your social media isnt probably going to be what fuarrrks you over. I understand the fight. The funny thing is I deleted all my social media except for snapchat. Not because of privacy it just made me feel weird when someone ive never seen would say "hi anon" and know my name at college. That and half the time a week after posting a picture I hate the picture and want to take it down.

>>1847 we need more people like you in the world, the wall between places like this and the regular clearnet.

>>1848 this is the regular clearnet Tank

>>1855 this is clearnet but I wouldn't call it 'regular'

>>1847 >says he doesn't care about privacy >probably has locks on his doors and passwords for his email accounts and uses tls at some point during the day >cites privacy concerns in post Hate to break it to you....

>>1953 It's like an advanced version of those old people that say they have no privacy concerns then get freaked out over things like the NSA having copies of genital pics sent between then and their spouse.

>>1956 >>1953 Nice one smartasses, you know what I meant. I don't care if the government has my google searches and browser history. I don't care if non free software is leaking my keystrokes to microsoft or wherever. Not I don't care if people break in my house or steal my accounts, those arent even privacy concerns. Thats a whole different kind of concern.

>>2091 so you wouldn't care if the government installed cameras in your house? Or if Amazon went through your trash?

>>1847 >>2091 >Not because of privacy it just made me feel weird when someone ive never seen would say "hi anon" and know my name at college. That and half the time a week after posting a picture I hate the picture and want to take it down. What do you think privacy is? Those are privacy concerns. Any time there is information about yourself, e.g. your name or a picture, you don't want known by some group of people, e.g. strangers at college, that is you desiring privacy.

>>2258 >>2223 Its evident you guys would rather win an argument and be right than understand what other people are saying. This is lainchan, naturally when someone they care about privacy I am assuming they use gentoo and have tor or i2p constantly running and don't use google. At the bare minimum they are assuming they dont use google. Do I really have to clarify "oh yeah I lock my doors and close my blinds and wear headphones instead of just blaring my stuff out loud". Is that really something I have to say, here of all places. What kind of person doesn't do these these things? Its pretty evident as I said you guys are just smartasses who didn't like the way I worded my post despite understanding what I meant. If that isn't the case and you actually think you are making some kind of point I think you are a dumbass who takes things too literally. Or you are new and don't realize the extremes people take for privacy here. Compared to these people I am correct in saying I don't care about privacy and your bullsoykaf nitpicking can't convince me otherwise.

If it can deeply harm my privacy, I don't touch it. Stopped using Google months ago for this, too. The fact that people care so little for their privacy, their identity, is kind of scary

Hi lainons, the same topic here. I tried to quit social media but had found it's difficult to do. I mainly don't use it to contact friends at all. The point here is the way of Internet communication has changed. Want to find what the internet security/anime fandom/social commentary people are doing and thinking? Current events people concerned? Gossips and rumors about the government? Emerging Internet subcultures and trends? It's a fact that nowadays social media is center where most information is exchanged and how people (especially talented and active people) organized on the Internet. Historically they are found at Usenet, BBS, mailing lists, Internet forums, blogosphere, things has changed a lot. By the way an imageboard Internet culture almost simply doesn't exist in my native language. For me, my social network told me what free software is, debated several circumstances of GPL license violations, programming tips and tricks, anime fandom, introduced me into applied cryptography, microcontroller and electronics, learned politics 101 in where I live, latest science breakthroughs, system security and hacker culture in general, got an mechanical keyboard, etc. As recent examples I also used it to tell people to donate to GnuPG, EFF, what are the problems of mass surveillance, discussions and debate about early Internet and the cryptowar, get a few watched SEL. Of course social network has its problems, lots of problems. But getting the same information in alternative ways is not easy, if not difficult. Current events? Setting up a RSS feed reader is great, I'm able to get news in a much more systematic and organized way. Emerging Internet subcultures and trends? Lurking on a few imageboards to keep up. Although I am never able to learn what happened to the Internet community in the country I live anymore... At least I know what's going on in America... What the internet security/anime fandom/social commentary people are doing and thinking? Some overlaps with the previous one since the members of a community have or related to subcultures and trends, vice versa. You'll be able to get some information about it by subscribing blogs, but other things don't appear in blogs ever. Gossips and rumors about the government? The information is really useful and needed for me, to be prepared for a even more fuarrrked up authoritarian society, sadly no other ways to access it. The Internet forum community is almost dead in my native language, good to see imageboards are still alive although in a state of deterioration. In conclusion I'm now progressively migrate the source the information from the social networks to other parts of the Internet, and I'm using it less and less now. (vichan keeps telling me I'm a spammer and go away every time I'm trying to post this. splitting my post into two)

Perhaps a better-than-none way is to start using alternative, federated social network implemented as free software, which offers far better protections of privacy, security and freedom, such as GNU/Social. I don't have an account yet, just got some disposable ones to look around. One problem is there there many people who have strong political ideologies and talking it all the time, lots of them are far-left, the rest are /p0/-right. And after you have joined you started to talk it because no other topics are inspirited, after all that's why they use GNU/Social in the first place. btw, I personally dislike those attached to /p0/ ideology, likely to be found among anime fandom and chan culture, they had found their ways info GNU/Social, muf freezepeach. Some instances found they are problematic and started to censor those servers, which creates even more issues I think... That's just my personal complaints and don't be serious... I'm okay with all the people to use GNU/Social, but the lack of interesting contents is unbearable for me. One possible way out is to forward (even one-way) existing messages from the proprietary networks to GNU/Social. I have lots of thoughts yet to say about the Internet, probably going to start a thread someday...

If FSF goers want to have an impact they should make applications with the same thought put into design and user friendliness. The goal in any movement is to make the people who don't care, care. Saying "ugh stupid sheep they don't even value their own privacy enough and would take convenience over freedom". They don't have your same background, your knowledge, and even if they did they likely have thimgs they care far more about then your campaign against the destruction of privacy and also non free software. They aren't idiots. There is no immediate threat either to them personally, anything has iminent dangers or long term consequences. Technology itself has long term consequences. The chances of your average person having something actually bad happen to then by using facebook, or other convenient social media is probably far less than that of say a car accident. Its like organic foods, or clean energy. Your average person isn't going to buy only organic or expensive clean energy vehicles and power. They have way more important things to worry about, yes more important from their perspective. Your privacy and freedom business is something you find important, if somevody doesn't share that you aren't superior at all. Just as a vegan person isn't superior for being vegan, or a guy who drives a tesla isn't superior. Things that arguably have more impact than using free software, ignoring that electricty isn't reallu clean energy yet. Some of the movements people hate for acting all high and mighty have a much greater impaxt than FSF, some actually save human lives and people possibly even whoever is reading this still hates it when they think everyone who doesn't partake is stupid. Yet the main difference is unlike FSF and privacy nuts, all of these groups are attempting to make their brand I suppose more convenient or as convenient as the norm. Companies and people have made recyclying slowly more convenient, have made solar power more efficient, are working to make vegan meats that taste exactly like the original, and making organic foods cheaper. This is because they realized a long time ago this is the best way to do this in our society. And many have realized gulting or making the other side feel like idiots does very little. You may be able to find little errors in what I said but that main message is truth, that working to meet user standards rather than having users meet yours is far more effective. Yet everybody will probably just say im a dumbass who doesn't value my privacy bla bla you used your instead of you're here, they are idiots for not caring cause x, it is as serious as y. If thats your response good luck never being an aid to your beliefs, the government or whoever you think is going to take advantage of all this will be the wake up call and your ramblings will be for nothing. All while you can say see "I told you!" and save no one and help only your own ego. also i'm not criticizing anyone who only does this for themselves or their own reasons and fears. just those who feel frustrated at why no one cares about their privacy like THEY do.

>>2378 >If FSF goers want to have an impact they should make applications with the same thought put into design and user friendliness. The goal in any movement is to make the people who don't care, As for GNU/Social, I failed to find a difficult or bad user interface, The design is modern, and it seems like most elements of the web frondend are almost a direct clone of Twitter from 2013. I didn't say it is excellent but at least not bad. I'm not denying the existence of problems you stated. This is a valid point and need to be addressed in many (if not most) free software projects, and I don't have any personal objection. However, even if you checkout some "newage" products/projects which embraces free and open source (more or less), something like Signal, you'll see the users are still minorities. So it is not solely an usability problem, but a social problem here, back to the topic, the lack of a complete ecosystem of GNU/Social is largest obstacle here. I hope it will become better since the introduce of Mastodon, another implementation, that has attracted many new users from Japanese art communities. Being able to read posts from the anime artists can be a good reason to switch for some. Though the early versions have many stupid bugs caused some to complain it to be a "Embrace, Extend, & Extinguish" conspiracy, those bugs got fixed later. Hopefully the devteam of Mastodon will continue to be cooperative with GNU/Social, and maintain a unified OStatus protocol and to comply with it. Making things better.

I use twitter and tumblr very actively but I draw the line at facebook Might eventually use a dating website because they're kinda convenient but I wonder if I'll actually benefit.

>>5332 I eat liquid human soykaf and solid human soykaf and sometimes cow soykaf, i draw the line at rabbit soykaf tho.

>>2259 >Do I really have to clarify "oh yeah I lock my doors and close my blinds and wear headphones instead of just blaring my stuff out loud". Yes.