Estrogen for males

A friend of mine proposed to give me 1mg of estrogen per day to keep me young. He said that the dose is so small that it shouldn't change me as a person. Does anyone have experience with using estrogen here? I've done a load of drugs and never experienced any permanent problems but I'm really skeptical of hormones.

I dont know much about those things but it sounds like there might be natural ways to get the same effects. Swallowing hormone pills daily even for slight effect seems like a bad idea.

What do you mean by keep you young? That could mean a lot of things. Go into better explanation of what you want to accomplish.

>>8943 >He said that the dose is so small that it shouldn't change me as a person. Load of soykaf, a low dose of estrogen will make your body think you are going through female puberty - you will start growing tits. Estrogen doesn't keep you young, the best it can do is make you age like a female (with all the caveats such as menopause).

Men have better skin (and less wrinkles) because of testosterone. I don't see how estrogen would keep you young, unless you're worried about balding.

>>8949 Menopause is caused by lack of estrogen. Aging only indirectly causes menopause, by stopping estrogen production. >>8950 >better skin (and less wrinkles) Doubt >balding Caused by DHT, estrogen has no effect.

>proposed to give me And how much is he taking? This sounds like some kind of Pygmalion fetish - you should probably stay away from him if you don't want to wake up tied to a chair and missing your penis.

>A friend of mine proposed to give me 1mg of estrogen per day to keep me young. Sounds like a bait but I'll reply anyway. Do you want to grow breasts? If not, better don't take it. Estrogen won't grow you a second X chromosome, which is probably the true reason woman live so long. Males have only a singular X chromosome, which means they don't have spare version of genes. If a gene is faulty on a male's X chromosome, his cell/body lose the function coded by the gene. If a female has a faulty gene, she still has a copy/alternative version of the gene allowing to preserve the function. Singular copies are easier to damage by mutations, so males can lose the functionality provided by the X chromosome faster.

>>8953 This sounds reasonable, but if any lainon into genetics feels like going into more depth about it, I'd appreciate it.

tranny reporting in, your friend is trying to pinkpill you and turn you into a sissified femboy. what you might want to try is getting estradiol cream (you can buy this OTC I believe) and rubbing it on your face like a moisturizer basically. I know of a cis doctor who specializes in hormone therapy who does this >>8953 this sounds fake, gonna need sauce on that. it seems like this was something that was speculated about a few years ago, but I've found at least one study that contradicts the claim: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180213112548.htm also if it was just the extra X chromosome, people with klinefelter syndrome should be living as long as natal females or at least longer than natal males, but that isn't the case.

>>8953 Having the extra X chromosome might be part of the reason why women tend to live longer, but a much simpler explanation is that men are far more likely to do dangerous soykaf.

>>8955 Not OP but what's up with the cream? I've heard of this from someone else before but I would think it wouldn't stay localized and absorb into the body effecting other areas. Too late to save me probably though so just curious. Only one X chromosome is expressed in each cell while the other is suppressed. This doesn't happen uniformly though so females are actually mosaics of chromosome expression. This is why calico cats have the patterns they do which is a visual example of this. Fur colour is on the X chromosome so usually only females are calicos.

>>8955 >this sounds fake It's not. Note that I said "probably". I haven't conducted any research and I suppose there are also genes that help females live longer. >gonna need sauce on that. Basic biology course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterozygote_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygosity#Hemizygous https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_chromosome#Function >Genetic disorders that are due to mutations in genes on the X chromosome are described as X linked. If X chromosome has a genetic disease gene, it always causes illness in male patients, since men have only one X chromosome and therefore only one copy of each gene. Females, instead, may stay healthy and only be carrier of genetic illness, since they have another X chromosome and possibility to have healthy gene copy. For example, hemophilia and red-green colorblindness run in family this way. So by analogy male cells are more prone to becoming dysfunctional, if an important gene gets damaged (mutations happen all the time, even if the cell is not replicating). >>8956 That too, but males do age faster.

>>8943 >A friend of mine proposed to give me 1mg of estrogen per day to keep me young. Assuming you're a male, that's the first time I see a man openly worrying about staying young. I'm genuinely interested in the thought behind that worry, if there is one. >He said that the dose is so small that it shouldn't change me as a person. If that's exactly how he worded it, it's a huge red flag. Sure, your personality might not change (assuming it doesn't), but your body will, and it will surely not be "keeping you young". You will probably also grow boobs (From the gynecomastia wikipedia page: Gynecomastia is the abnormal non-cancerous enlargement of one or both breasts in males due to the growth of breast tissue as a result of a hormone imbalance between estrogen and androgen.) Hormonal imbalance can also lead to a myriad of other different problems but I can't list them off my head right now.

>>8960 >Assuming you're a male, that's the first time I see a man openly worrying about staying young. Not him, but I'm a transhumanist and I want to extend my life.

>>8960 > Assuming you're a male, that's the first time I see a man openly worrying about staying young. I'm genuinely interested in the thought behind that worry, if there is one. Wait, people don't generally worry about their mortality?

>>8943 Bro... wtf are you doing. Don't listen to your rando ass friend and start messing up your endocrine system. We already get pumped full of plenty of xenoestrogens as it is.

>>8961 A "transhuman" is just a medicalized person-as-a-commodity and your (marginally) extended life will be miserable. This stuff is obviously a trap set by rats. You should be slightly more wary

>>8964 >A "transhuman" is just a medicalized person-as-a-commodity And who told you that? I decide what it means for me anyway. >your (marginally) extended life will be miserable I know what I'm doing. I'm becoming a scientist for the purpose.

>>8965 I'm not so sure pills can be considered a very transhumanist concept. Transhumanism from what I've always known it, is mostly about replacing the biological with technology. And I see pills as still working in the biological category. I've noticed pills and other methods to live longer have become more popular among some "transhumanists" and I've seen that as mainly a strategy to live long enough to see their transhumanist dreams become real. Honestly, the future is going to be hell. Try and reduce your lifespan, instead of extending it. You'll thank me later.

>>8965 You're a scientist? Well this is awful experimental methodology. Scientists don't experiment on themselves for several good reasons. A big one is that your sample size is only one. With no control. Don't act like it's science if it's not, and please for your own sake don't take hormones just because some guy told you it might make you live longer.

>>8958 Anti-aging Topicals don't usually go systemic unless they're highly concentrated or over applied. Here's a study that claimed no signs of systemic hormone changes with estradiol https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8876303/ That said, I think the current course of action most dermatologists recommend for effective anti-aging is minimizing sun exposure, applying sunscreen daily, using a topical retinol cream (adapelene is over the counter now, retin-a and tretinoin are prescription grade), and possibly LED therapy. If skin aging is the main concern, those are likely more effective starting points than estradiol cream.

>>8962 I thought he was referring to appearing young. If he really wants to extend his life, then hormones are the last thing you worry about if you have no hormonal imbalance.

>>8972 Yeah, I know. I'm not deluded by pills, I'm going into biochemistry to understand the mechanism behind aging to fix it. Again I'm not OP, but yes, people do want to live longer. >Try and reduce your lifespan, instead of extending it. You'll thank me later. Thanks for the advice but I can't give up yet. >>8973 I'm not OP. >You're a scientist? Not yet. >Well this is awful experimental methodology. Scientists don't experiment on themselves for several good reasons. I know that, I didn't imply experimenting on myself. I need to make a thread for transhumanists not to be affiliated with OP who will grow breasts.

>>8961 You are looking for things that stop telomere degradation of your cells and taking cells from younger people like red blood cells offered by Ambrosia. Both of these are of course satanic, so use at risk of your mortal soul.

>>8977 >I need to make a thread for transhumanists not to be affiliated with OP who will grow breasts lol I'll drink to that

DONT take estrogen, might as well fuarrrking poison yourself. Estrogen is proven to be pro-inflammatory.

If you want to extend your life, improve your lifestyle. Dont eat seed oils (extremely inflammatory), dont apply chemicals to your skin and eat real vitamin AEDK. If you want a magic pill, then go for beef liver.

>>8943 Selegiline prolongs lifespan in tested mammals by 40%, or so I have read in some meme picture long time ago. An empiric way to prolong lifespan is to increase ratio of activities that bring you joy to those that don't. A short joyful life is better than long eternal life of suffering, but consider those who would suffer your loss. I am not talking about jerking off to cartoons and eating industrial food as a main source of "joy" for those who still think it's what is good for them because they know nothing better. If you look at old people who live relatively long, over 90, over 100, they all have had good mental and physical exercise in form of genitive activities, loving family for psychological support. Sad zombies who throw away their kids at 18, rot in retirement homes and men who drink themselves to death at 55 obviously have nothing of that. Is your current arrangement at young age of the first, or second? Consider simpler choices before taking any form of technologically-assisted medication.

Sounds like your friend wants to fuarrrk your ass, and wants you to be more twinkish when he does it.

>>8955 >tranny reporting in, your friend is trying to pinkpill you and turn you into a sissified femboy. what you might want to try is getting estradiol cream (you can buy this OTC I believe) and rubbing it on your face like a moisturizer basically. I know of a cis doctor who specializes in hormone therapy who does this is his name Powers or something like that?

>>8975 Hm I see. Darn since i liked how my skin was when i was younger. Probably too late for hormones on skin to change anything. Red light therapy I am a bit confused by as it seems to do good some parts of the body and harms others since ive read it can increase cataracts. Dermatologists worth anything are actually against drug based sunscreens because many increase skin cancer risk ironically. Only mineral based are relatively safe but they also usually cake on or are tacky feeling.

>>8950 No. Use retinol and sunscreen to keep your face youthful. >>8951 Estrogen can prevent and even reverse balding. Not sure about the dose but it needs to be enough to block testies.

>>8973 >Well this is awful experimental methodology. Correct. >Scientists don't experiment on themselves for several good reasons. Plenty of scientists experiment on themselves. Getting double-blind volunteers is a huge hassle, so experimenting by and on yourself is an easy first step to find good hypotheses. Afterwards you must of course do it with proper methodology before you can publish.

>>8943 im a tranny so i have a lot of experience with estrogen. 1mg will not do soykaf >>8949 > low dose of estrogen will make your body think you are going through female puberty - you will start growing tits this isnt really true. your t will btfo 1mg of estrogen and the most you will likely experience, if anything, is firmer more erect nips, very doubtful you will get far at all in growing tits. very unlikely will stay young/get soft skin or anything like that because you need a consitent decently high amount of estrogen to do that. 1mg simply isnt enough.

>>8976 >If he really wants to extend his life, then hormones are the last thing you worry about if you have no hormonal imbalance. I thought that the male endocrine system factory settings burn you out faster? e.g. eunuchs living longer

>>8943 Chaotic hormonal levels make you age quicker not slower. This is true for body builders. Your cells work on either an estrogen or testosterone basis. Being male you naturally have a high testosterone level compared to females. Putting estrogen in your body creates a whirlwind of chaos of both high e and high t creating stress on your cells. Aging in effect to cell failure goes by a limited number of cell replications before the cells are programmed to stop replicating - this is why caffeine and anything that effects metabolic rate positively ages you quicker. In effect the opposite direction downers which slow your metabolism makes you slower/dumber but makes you age slower. Going this route you're effectively trading intelligence and body efficiency for a longer body existence.

>>8943 your friend wants to trick you into trooning out

"Reverse" tranny here, what >>8955 says is correct. I would be concerned about this friend's motives. Topical estrogen would be relatively harmless and only effect the areas you apply it to though. >>8958 Interestingly, topical estradol is in fact localized only rather than systemic. It's common for transgender men on testosterone to be prescribed this to treat the effects of atrophy downstairs, because of how it's able to treat the issue without messing with T levels. >>9076 Powers is a quack imo but in fairness he does get a lot of things right. Though yes there's a good chance that's probably where this individual got their information from. A lot of the mtf trans that spend a lot of time on chans and are extremely obsessive about this type of information are typically Powers stans. Anyways, hope that information helps.

>>9199 >Chaotic hormonal levels make you age quicker not slower. This is true for body builders it is indeed true for bodybuilders but they inject androgens to be completely fair. I think that trannies are revolting but I unironically believe that they're right when it comes to the effects of hormones on aging, just look at how better your average woman ages compared to the average man. The meme of "the wall" is pure cope.

>>8956 There is some additional research being done now to determine if the higher rates of genetic disease are due to chromosomes or testosterone levels. The tl;dr right now is yes/no/maybe depending on the disease/condition in question. Higher testosterone levels is correlated to a higher chance of a lot of health issues such as heart disease and diabetes rather than the actual chromosomes, for example. These are risks that you're required to sign off on when doing the paperwork for medical ftm transition. We're supposed to sign that we acknowledge that we'll be at a higher risk for all these scary diseases and they make a really big deal about it, but the reality is that our risk levels have just shifted from the typical female range over to the typical male ones. This shift in ranges is apparent in the blood labs we regularly have to do.

>>9230 Males are subjected to circumcision an unnecessary potentially fatal surgery at birth, generally speaking have more dangerous jobs and hobbies and make up the majority of murder victims. Those factors of course are a big factor in differences in average lifespan. The only edge Im aware of females have off top of my head is they better heal from traumatic injury which has lead to research into suppressing testosterone for the fatally wounded thinking testosterone perhaps supresses some healing factors. >>9232 Is there data actually saying it's same health risks among trans men and cis men or are you only assuming?

>>9236 >Is there data or are you only assuming? Having been on HRT for nearly a decade, that is what I've been told from every single specialist I've been to so far. Most of my body composition at this point is about on par with a man with no testicles who's also on HRT and most (not all, some are still understood as chromosomal) of my health risks are the same my father's and grandfather's for the most part, besides things like testicular/prostate cancer, which is not in my family history anyway. (Plus I have no reproductive system) I don't know where it is in this spreadsheet (it's a collection of thousands of links to actual studies on transgender people) but I do remember reading through a few of them in here that seemed to back this idea up as well. I just woke up and I don't have the time to dig through it right now but if I find them later maybe I'll post em, but for now just so you're not empty handed and if you're interested to look through more than what I talked about, here you go: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/

>>8943 You are literally turning yourself into a soiboi. Literally. Stop taking estrogen, it won't make you young. Plato saying that you should castrate yourself to prevent balding wasn't a word of advice to be taken as dogma. Holy fuarrrk. You're being groomed into turning into a literal train station. God damn, don't let yourself become a goddamn locomotive just because you're afraid of going bald or something, you're gonna grow tits, you're gonna turn ugly and flabby, and worst of all you're gonna be fool'd by some soykafty advice your friend gave you.

>>8943 This better be bait, if not you're a moron for believing that guy. Dont ruin your hormone balance. >>9281 This. If he actually wanted OP to "stay young" or whatever he would tell him to eat healthy, exercise, get enough sleep, etc.

>>8959 hi, im a biology major X-linked disorders are way more about heredity than mutations during the course of your life. if a mutation happens in one of your cells, it only affects that cell and any daughter cells descended from it. therefore if the egg that created you had a fuarrrked X chromosome it'll be ALL your cells if you don't have a backup. additionally, women always have one of their two X chromosomes shrivel up and become nonfunctional in every cell. in that manner they're pretty much just as vulnerable to mutations during their life as males are. i believe women tend to live longer because testosterone is just kind of rough on your organs. therefore it's likely that trans women will live a bit longer and trans men a bit shorter, at least assuming they begin hormones early. it's not certain, but the mere presence of XY vs XX chromosomes does almost nothing once someone is an adult. im unsure but i don't think the Y chromosome is expressed much past natal development and maybe puberty

>>9981 i thought of a good example! testosterone for your organs is kind of like overclocking your CPU. it raises your metabolism and can boost performance, but will reduce lifespan in the long term.

you should take about 2-4mg of estradiol by sublingual tablet daily. i would personally recommend combining with around 50mg of cyproterone daily also to enhance the effects. at these doses, it is recommended that you get your blood work checked regularly for an over-abundance of one thing or another. now to get onto results. so, definitely will notice and improvement to - by "age" standards - skin, hair, and likely general demeanor. you'll get a lot less invasive thoughts in several ways, most of them pertaining to your body; this is the "aging gracefully" part, which is critical to your youth. next, a key effect will be the introduction of specific traits into your context, while others are eliminated. this is just part of the process, there's nothing to be concerned about. it's basically, a little mild discomfort during some induction period that varies over a few months. there might be some new inclinations, for sure, especially around the computer space. you will likely find that there are several aids to your programming toolkit that previously were absent or went unused. overall, broader access is part of the bargain, and you'll be much more functional overall. over the course of your glowup, things will be improving across the board. my personal attestation is that this treatment works. it has done wonders for me and many other folks. it's very cloak-and-dagger sometimes though because it isn't very well studied or understood. but, really, once you find your place with those who pursue this radical forward step, you'll find your life irrevocably bettered. there's also a bunch of customizable options that come along a little further into treatment, so i highly recommend you look into those, budget permitting.

>>9281 holy soykaf i wanna be a train station

>>8943 >50mg of cyproterone daily No. This is totally retarded and will completely nuke your testosterone and your dick. It is unnecessary even for a person willing to transition. For a transitioning person, 25mg every 2d or at most daily is enough for the large majority of cases. As an anti-androgen, try bicalutamide instead (50-100mg weekly). It will have very little if any effect on your libido and sexual function (due to not reducing testosterone level but merely inhibiting its action which appears to be a critical detail in this) and there's a low risk of side effects at that dose. When it comes to estrogen, start with 1mg daily and do that for a few months (at least 2-3). If you don't notice sensitivity around your nipples, you're good. Raise to 2mg daily with caution. If you experience the aforementioned sensitivity, cease completely until it goes away. It's a sign of breast growth about to happen. Then resume 1mg. You can do either bicalutamide or estrogen or both if you're careful with your hormone levels. Many femboys seem to opt for bicalutamide monotherapy. It's recommended to get your hormone levels measured to get the dose right and ensure you aren't going too far. Just compare to reference male and female levels (early follicular / late luteal phase for the latter) and don't stray too far. Take it from a person who started transition with 2mg estradiol daily for a month, then 4mg estradiol daily (first valerate, then hemihydrate which is a bit stronger) and at most 25mg bicalutamide every 2 days. I believe breast growth initiated only after going to 4mg daily.

>>8943 >keep me young Have you tried exercise? A healthy diet? Having a decent skincare routine and hygiene maintenance? No hormone supplement is going to be a replacement for any of those things. Stop trying to 'hack' your biology and put in the work. Alternatively, embrace aging.

>>10000 Digits signify best post

>>10000 But who will profit of that? Where is the instant gratification?

>>10000 a solid number for a solid post. In a sea of glitterboys, one lain stands among the crowd.

>>10000 The gist of the argument in this post makes no sense. > stop using useful tools to make tasks easier at no gain to you > use a rock instead of a nailgun or a hammer, you don't need to make it easier or more reliable Why? Sure it can't do all the work, but if a tool helps with some work you want, you're free to use it if it doesn't have other problems making it impractical.

>>10000 >Have you tried exercise? A healthy diet? Having a decent skincare routine and hygiene maintenance? I do all those things already. Why wouldn't I also do this if it helped? >Alternatively, embrace aging You can embrace it while also recognizing that reducing the physical and mental effects of aging is beneficial.

>>10022 >reducing the physical and mental effects of aging is beneficial. estrogen doesn't do that.

Doesn't Estrogen cause osteoporosis in men? Why would you ever want to meddle with your body in that kind of a way?

>>10023 Then the tool is unfit for purpose and shouldn't be used, it isn't any more complicated than that.

>>10018 you don't get instant gratification from hormones, sad to say. op needs to take the hormones AND put in the effort. op, remember, the 2-4mg of estradiol, and unlike said before, if you go with cypro, 15-25mg ought to do good. i'm so proud of you.

I wouldnt call that a friend.

>>10000 It's as if you are assuming that OP is asking about it because he doesn't want to do any of these things? What if he's already doing all of these things and he wants to take it further? >>10023 Yes it does. Estrogen's positive effects on skin health are well-documented and it prevents aging in several ways. >>10024 It increases the risk but this applies to women in the same way as to men. Testosterone comes with its own health risks however and looking at how women live longer than men in average, it might be connected.

>>10038 >well-documented <doesn't present the proofs ???

>>10039 Plenty you can read with a few keystrokes into a search engine .. here's a couple I found right away. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2685269/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772914/

>>10039 the proof is the entire transgender community. i would encourage the starting protocol suggested by >>10026 . That will get great results very fast, definitely the best option.

>>10041 > the proof is the entire transgender community. I am not sure this is the point you are trying to make.

>>10041 >the proof is the entire transgender community. many of them are unstable

>>10043 yes, but the question was about skin not mental health. Big question is: does taking estrogen effect the suicide rates of the persons taking it ? trans ness certainly seems to. If you're into longevity, disposing yourself to suicidal depression is not a good plan.

>>10044 It probably depends on the cards you've been dealt and your expectations regarding the results. For someone it's a fulfillment, for the other it's a soul-crushing reality check.

>>10044 >>10045 This is why you're on an image board and not out curing cancer: you're too stupid to understand cause/effect by chronically getting it backwards.

>>10044 I think it might be the opposite, that transgender people (who tend to have suicidal tendencies) tend to take estrogen, not that estrogen itself causes it. A better question would be if taking estrogen would start to cause some form of gender dysphoria. In any case, I don't see much good coming from taking estrogen to 'keep me young.'

>>10050 I recall a statistic that women make more suicide attempts and men more suicide successes. Its possible that E. increases your likely hood of trying, and perhaps being a bloke you're more likely to pull it off. Its all vauge speculation. Maybe its the risk of infertility that ruins peoples mentalhealth. Afteral, the real longevity is having children.

>>10051 Huh, that's really interesting. I would kill to talk to an actual neurologist about the effects of estrogen/testosterone on the male/female brain.

>>10051 >Its possible that E. increases your likely hood of trying It's also about the differences between male and female brain but hormones do have an effect on mood. How much, depends on the person. >Maybe its the risk of infertility that ruins peoples mentalhealth Absolutely not. For a person willing to go through the effort of transition, fertility is nothing in the face of being in terms with your body. >>10054 Personally, I could not notice the difference after starting estrogen myself nor when I took a break from it for a few weeks but I am also generally just really cold in a sense.

>>10056 >Absolutely not. For a person willing to go through the effort of transition, fertility is nothing in the face of being in terms with your body. Topic of this thread is Estrogen for Males, in pursuit of youth. Presuming it was made in good faith, 'transitioning' isnt at all relevant.

>>10050 >transgender people tend to take estrogen Trans women take estrogen. Trans men take testosterone. The distribution is roughly 50/50 so yes it was worth making the distinction. >A better question would be if taking estrogen would start to cause some form of gender dysphoria. It could, yes. Definitely something to watch out for.

>>10060 >literally cannot even operate a message board ok, found the cishet. rest of you girls, my place in 5 minutes for an orgy and pair programming~~

Another coping femboy I'm guessing? Some day in the future there will be better solutions to keep an androgynous appearance past a certain age, but we have to be pioneers by necessity. Maybe something similar to SERMS will be available for the coming generations. The skincare, diet and exercise advice is the best in the thread, messing around with endocrine is risky as fuarrrk and could wind up being counter productive. There could be something to the various supplements that get touted like fisetin and resveratrol, but they won't get you nearly as far as just living a healthy lifestyle, drinking green tea, etc. I have MtF friends irl who used their estrogen topically with good results for their skin, and as others have mentioned here Dr. Will Powers has been using that technique on himself with good results, so it's what I'm going for. I ordered some estrogen to mix into my usual skincare routine since it seems relatively safe for the rest of my body, and in a few months I'll report here if it's working out for me.

It would likely do nothing and not keep you young either.

>>8943 be a man. smoke cigarettes, die early. go hard toward death and you will be beautiful and live long

Don't mess with hormones unless you have to, lainon. You want to look younger? Do exercises, maintain a good skin care routine and diet, taking hormones is far too dangerous especially without professional orientation.

>>10051 my hypothesis is that women have higher rates of depression, but worry more about those who will find their body since women are socialized to be more empathetic/considerate to others. where a man would be more statistically likely to use a gun, a woman would be more likely to try overdosing on pills (much less consistent). it's not set in stone, though, obviously there are men that try to OD and women that shoot themselves. >>10050 interestingly, estrogen has a mild antidepressant effect. obviously if you're a cis male it will be completely negated by the dysphoria feminization causes you, but it does exist! the key, though, no matter your gender, is that you want to avoid having moderately-low T, which causes depression. if you have it very low (~30 ng/dL) like me (a tranny) it's fine, and if you have it at normal or moderately high levels (300-700 ng/dL) like a cis man that's also fine, but around 100-200 ng/dL T is hell for everyone, for some reason.

>>10775 Yeah now that you mention it, from the people I've talked to, trans men stuck in the 200 range (usually because of doctors that refuse to increase their dose, or because it's an enby who thinks they can pick and choose what effects they get with T by using a smaller dose) always seem to be doing rather poorly, at least until they finally get their dose boosted or in the case of the envy that thinks it's a fashion statement for some reason finally just stops. 200ish just seems like a bad time.

If you are a man taking testosterone will keep you young and lively, estrogen will unironically make you more beta

>>10775 >>10051 It's very obvious that women make poor suicide attempts (that fail) because they just want to coerce and manipulate the behaviour of people around them. When the stakes are so incredibly high, people that really want to die dont just take some over-the-counter meds and allow themselves to be found. You shouldnt even count it as a suicide attempt.

>>10830 Taking testosterone or generally messing around with your body's hormone balance is a terrible idea without very specific reasons for doing so and medical supervision Guys taking test to pump their levels above the natural range for weight lifting or to be more virile or whatever are spinning the wheel, even if they're doing so with medical checkups and good gear prolonged test usage for non therapeutic purposes is a bad idea that can lead to all kinds of problems, some of the more obvious being soykafty skin, dramatically increased aggression (not increased assertiveness, aggression), premature balding and acne. Long term abuse can fuarrrk up your own system badly enough that you can't produce your own T anymore and will be stuck taking HRT for the rest of your life just for normal function. Limited test shots can be useful for men with dysfunctional endocrine systems or older men whose systems are flagging to regulate their levels and improve health though. t.Weightlifter that looked into maybe pinning test but decided against it due to the myriad downsides.

>>10832 Body builders can go crazy with this stuff but in principal this jives with what I've heard. Can be alright, but its a big risk for most people if you don't want to be dependant on drugs for the rest of your life / sterilized, for not too much a reward. Same with estrogen for women, kinda dumb, kinda screwey, kinda risky, but people do it (birth control for instance). When your older its probably ok. T/E production goes down and you've probably already had kids; if you're not totally against drugs, why not. But don't even consider it before you turn 57 imho.

The non-retarded way into anti-aging is having a good diet, good sleep, not being sedentary and finding ways to not be stressed (go to the psychologist, meditate, whatever). Optionally, natural skin care products and things like massages and things like that. Then there is the very retarded path, that seems to be very present in /drug/, and it involves having a bad diet, bad sleep, bad hygiene, being sedentary and being stressed out, and wanting some biochem bullshit to fix your personal problems or keep you away from their consequences. It's true that women are better at this, look at how the non-retarded way could be labeled generally as "woman stuff". But it's not because of some hormone. It's because they DO the stuff and generally not overdo it. For example, if you wanna stop being sedentary, that doesn't mean you should go to the gym every day and lift bulls. Just jog around the park listening to podcasts, like so many women do. That's plenty enough. Anyways, OP is surely trollin'. Thinking about the dynamics of "retards making bait threads for retards to fall for it and reply" makes me feel lonely in a way. My post is good advice in any case, so there. Now after reading the thread I see most posts are actually quite good. That's wholesome. >>10000 Oh, this guy already said it with many consecutive numbers in his post. And with less words. Slash thread. I'll just delete my lainchan account. Seriously OP should become the dubs-checking man and start believing in taking care of himself. >>10022 >Why wouldn't I also do this if it helped? Because it fuarrrks you up in other ways, like everything else out of biopharma. Plus it doesn't even help you to begin with. Unless you need help having a hormonal imbalance and getting breast cancer later on and soykaf like that. Inb4 "estrogen is natural, it's not biopharma". No one should take hormones orally or in any other way, your body makes the hormones you need out of the food you eat. That's what glands are for. >>9984 >holy soykaf i wanna be a train station You can always train-sition. EH?