Memory Erasure/Editing

This may go on /diy/ because they may have ways of building neural interfaces, flashy things or even hypnotic songs that can accomplish this, but drugs are the only approach which has actually had some success up until now, which makes drug use the most reliable approach. There are lots of questions that go into this. How do you erase only specific memories without wiping out your entire identity? Are there any side effects? How do you obtain the necessary substances? Discuss all these and more here.

>>6381 Destroying the part of your mind that stores memory is easy with drugs... the problem is you have NO control with how much of your brain you destroy. >Toxic leukoencephalopathy represents a process of structural alteration of the white matter. It is caused by substance abuse including drugs such as heroin, cocaine, toluene and ethanol. We reported the clinical, radiological and autopsy findings of a rare case of toxic leukoencephalopathy following chronic methamphetamine (MA) usage. A 34-year-old man with a 3-year history of MA abuse experienced progressive sluggish state, limb weakness, inability to stand and eating disorders, followed by rapid progression to coma and death. Arguably one of the "safest" causes of memory loss would be as an effect of Benzodiazepines >make the nerves in the brain less sensitive to stimulation, which has a calming effect. See the link for a list of how different medications cause memory loss https://www.aarp.org/health/brain-health/info-05-2013/drugs-that-may-cause-memory-loss.html#quest1 If you wanted a way to suppress memories, there are psychological methods of that but they usually result in significant emotional trauma

>>6382 >If you wanted a way to suppress memories, there are psychological methods of that but they usually result in significant emotional trauma can you elaborate on those methods?

The goal shouldn't be erasing memories but creating an emotional detachment or new emotional association from the memories or altering the memories. https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-have-figured-out-how-to-to-erase-your-painful-memories Why do you want to do this? What is the goal?

We may need a new board because this is an enormously broad topic that could fit in /diy/, /drug/ or even /hum/, and just having it on a single board means you get only one type of expertise. Honestly, this board and society in general should have a discussion about the ramifications of the widespread ability to alter or erase memories. Few works of fiction even in cyberpunk or associated genres have covered this in anywhere near the depth it deserves, even those which are specifically devoted to this topic. Short of having the ability to travel through time or finding Aladdin's lamp, it's probably the ultimate societally disruptive power and also the ultimate in battle if an MIB-style neuralyzer was made. You can have a trunk full of plasma rifles and throw cars with your fully cybernetic body, but Agent J can just walk up to you and wipe away your entire life in one flash, rendering you unable to use any of that. If you include memory editing in this, then you could instead have an agent with a false memory dispenser that instantly convinces an enemy to switch sides and use those cybernetics and plasma rifles on his former comrades. To contribute to the direction laid out in the OP, how does amnesia induced by injury or dementia differ from amnesia induced by drugs? >>6385 >The goal shouldn't be erasing memories If a person has the right to commit suicide, then they have the right to erase their memories if they want. >altering the memories Isn't this much more difficult than simply erasing memories?

>>6386 When I say "should" I mean out of reality rather than a scifi fantasy. It's about practicality not an ethical claim. Read the article. Our memories get altered all the time. The hard part would be altering a memory exactly the way you want. It may be possible by combining drugs used like described before and in the article and use it with hypnosis. To erase a memory is much harder because the path to a memory may include a whole lot more than just a memory and it would be ridiculously dangerous and stupid to try to destroy the neurons in a targeted area when we don't actually know what they do.

>>6386 >altering the memories >Isn't this much more difficult than simply erasing memories? Actually no. There are entire fields of memory studies where people get fuarrrked with and there are techniques for questioning that embed non-existent memories in peoples minds. Also memories experience a lossy compression of sorts, and they need to be reconstructed during recall in order to clearly remember. Since the memory is stored as a framework outside of trauma memories (flashbulb memories) you can easily manipulate the way things like speed, distance, and size were observed due to perceptional differences.

Since benzos seem to be the preferred drug-based method of memory alteration, how do you get them on the cheap? And once you have them, how do you use them for this?

>>6390 That's a stupid idea. It makes new memories not form as easily. Have you been reading replies?

>>6390 Not all benzos are the same. Some have little to no effect on memory, instead being prescribed for anxiety. Others have only anterograde effects on memory. Only a few can affect memories already formed.

>>6392 I have a relative addicted to lorazepam that is prescribed that causes memory blackouts of current happenings. What ones damage recall of old memories? Even then you couldn't control which memories are damaged.

When you engage in recall, memories enter a state of flux. During this period, they can be forgotten or erased. When you sleep, your brain performs "reconsolidation" to encode it back into a long-term format. Lab experiments have shown that if you recall and engage deeply with a memory you wish to erase, and prevent consolidation (interrupting sleep during REM in particular, or preventing sleep) will result in the memory being weakened, or even eliminated. Furthermore, if you recall something, and begin to reimagine it in a differing light prior to reconsolidation, you can effectively overwrite the offending memory. Generally with multiple interventions of this sort, you'll be able to effectively rewrite/erase any memory you want. The obvious problem is you need to sleep deprive yourself to pull it off, which can be difficult to accomplish without external aids.

>>6382 For most of the drugs listed in this article, the effects go away after you stop taking the drug. Obviously this isn't what someone wanting to erase memories is looking for. >>6397 I've heard of this before, but nobody ever mentioned anything about needing to be sleep-deprived for it to work.

>>6401 I've not heard the sleep deprivation either. I'm the one who posted here >>6385 .. I do think it's possible BDNF levels may be involved though. So basically temporarily increase BDNF or use a drug that mimics it such as ​7,8-Dihydroxyflavone and it may help with altering memories. https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201464

>>6410 >BDNF levels I think it may have more to do with GABA levels. BDNF acts as a GABA inhibitor, so it's still true that it has to do with BDNF levels, but GABA seems to me to be the significant part. Short-term memory is transferred to long-term memory during sleep according to classical models of the brain, and GABA is important in facilitating sleep. Having low levels of GABA would mean that you'd be sleep-deprived. But maybe it's more complicated than this. Alas, I'm not a brain surgeon, which is unfortunate because this is basically brain surgery.

>>6434 My train of thought was that the BDNF would increase neuronal plasticity of the brain. This would require either and / or hypnosis and use of drugs to mimic the desired emotions associated with a memory. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-60096-1

Weed is famous for inducing failures of memory. Could you use certain strains of weed to duplicate the (hypothesized) memory altering/erasing effects of benzos without the horrible dependency? >>6386 >the ultimate in battle if an MIB-style neuralyzer was made People would just start wearing eye protection like the MIBs' own sunglasses. They're already doing this because the George Floyd rioters have been using lasers to blind people.

>>6528 Depends on someone's age and whether you're talking long term or short term memory. Clearly not a good match.

I see we're going full Lain now.

>>6529 Elaborate? There are so many strains of weed it seems premature to categorically dismiss it like this.