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I heard about some expensive alcohol replacement drink called Hard Ketones and I looked up what it is and it has R1,3 butanediol which is a type of alcohol and a form of butylene glycol, which if that sounds familiar it is something used in skin care products so it should be possible to buy it from a chemical supplier but I don't know if there are any for a good price that makes it more cost effective for a single consumer than this expensive niche product. Supposedly it gets you drunk feeling but in a less soykafty feeling way more aware, and the metabolism supposedly does not create toxic compounds that make ethanol cause damage to your renal. I assume you can OD on it if you took enough but if dose is correct from what I read it shouldn't cause accumulative damage at safe doses as far as I am aware. I tried looking all over if anyone has bought the chemical and used it but i only could find info about this product when searching no drug reports or anything suggesting anyone is currently doing this. Could any Lain's clue me in why no one has been doing this and if it would actually be relatively safe to get ahold of the chemical and mix it in a drink ? Is even getting the stuff from chemical supplies too costly?

>>18146 There are a soykafton of alcohol analogues that alll do various things to your head and your health. No chemical is "safe". Tert-amyl alcohol is a classic. Yes you can overdose on these, same as with alcohol, you go into respiratory depression and die. Avoiding alcohol metabolites doesn't mean other ones dont show up with equally damaging effects. soykafs fun but dont spread the word and get it all derezzed

>>18147 >>18146 I would be afraid of having something that feels like alcohol but is a magnitude more potent. Alcohol makes me very impulsive and makes my IQ drop to equal my shoe size. That means i would fatally overdose the first time trying it.

>>18147 >Avoiding alcohol metabolites doesn't mean other ones dont show up with equally damaging effects. It metabolizes into ketones and is not known to be carcinogenic. I am not certain if it has any other metabolites though. Likely it feels very different from ethanol and effects neurotransmitters different. It isn't being sold as some gas station thing teenagers do, it is being sold online as a "healthy" beverage alternative to ethanol drinks but at a steep price which is why I considered tracking down if butylene glycol in whatever form can be found at a decent price in it's more pure form no potential marketing price increase, but I also suspect they may be only selling at modest profits because there is only so high you can inflate a price before people dont buy a product especially when it is a startup company. Supposedly R1,3 butanediol is more bioavailable than the racemic form the company claims but the racemic form seems to be studied more. I don't know how I overlooked this but 1,3 butanediol is also used in other food products not just cosmetics. As you can see the prices on this site is also steep since they are geared toward laboratories or factories likely. >1,3-Butanediol is commonly used as a solvent in food flavourings and is mildly toxic by oral and subcutaneous routes, with possible side effects including severe respiratory problems, coma, amnesia, belligerence, confusion, agitation, vomiting, seizures and very slow heartbeat. People who use butylene glycol on a regular basis and then stop using it may also experience withdrawal symptoms such as sleep problems (insomnia), tremors and anxiety. >Mildly toxic by ingestion and subcutaneous routes. A skin and eye irritant. See also ETHYLENE GLYCOL. Experimental reproductive effects. Combustible when exposed to heat or flame. Incompatible with oxidizing materials. To fight fire, use foam, alcohol foam, CO2, dry chemical. When heated to decomposition it emits acrid smoke and irritating fumes. https://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB7758265.htm it seems relatively safe but i am not 100% this is the exact same form just with longer chemical name. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1279770724004160 the only other option than purchase would be synthesis but I have no chemistry skills yet and that could be very risky if I accidentally produce the wrong kind of alcohol a potentially deadly one even if I could get the supplies to do so.

So no one here knows about this? I know there is sometimes chemist Lains here.

>>18156 a practical appeal of these things besides being like alcohol but vaguely healthier, or the simple appeal of another kind of over-the-counter intoxicating substance (that you might not even need to show ID for) is that they might not give you a hangover like alcohol does. some legal drug lab has invented another potion that accomplishes exactly that with alcohol. they're called z-labs, they're calling it pre-alcohol, and the price is incredibly steep at $12/bottle.

>>18415 I cant find this searching just Z-biotics selling a probiotic meant to prevent hangovers with that name Pre Alcohol. Z-labs isnt a very search friendly name since multiple companies use this name. For me hangovers are a non issue, I just remember to drink water, never had a hangover. Im just interested in having no or at least less negative health effects mainly for aesthetic reasons though I also know an alcoholic who has a short life expectancy but is still casually drinking despite it nearly killing him multiple times already.

>>18419 really? that's the exact process I used to find it from being given / told about it IRL. their webpage is zlabs.com . since it's exact process is by breaking acetaldehyde more efficiently than your body does, it makes the alcohol experience less neurotoxic and less toxic in general. acetaldehyde if you weren't aware is considered to be the primary air toxin, it results from the breakdown of PET and it is an irritant of human cells.

>>18435 not who you are replying to but welcome to zlabs.com, why would you not even bother checking before posting that it takes like 2 seconds

>>18435 >>18472 OP here. It's possible this Zlabs that was mentioned no longer exists but even if it does the product by description of what it does just sounds like it is dihydromyricetin (DHM) aka ampelopsin which you can find all over the place by many different companies as a hangover treatment. Not really what I was looking to get information on.

>>18146 From preliminary research, it sounds like >There is very little research available on their actual effects (most is anecdotal or apparently TikTokers, which makes me think they are probably hyping it for compensation) >It can cause some problems if you have Diabetes (keto-acidosis) where your blood becomes acidic. >Some people report no effects or diminished effects vs. actual booze. Also, when I looked up the the brand name Ketahol, it looks like it's just sold as "a great alcohol alternative" without any technical literature. https://uspto.report/TM/97829119/APP20230311111010/ Ketonaid also has a number of clinical trials for the chemical potentially, but it sounds like it is being sold as a vitamin supplement/performance enhancing substance (non-regulated by the Food and Drug administration, so they can basically make whatever claims they want about what it might do. There is a paper they claim says that it is safe and improves brain performance at https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/fulltext/2018/11000/intermittent_running_and_cognitive_performance.18.aspx Overall, the hype marketing sounds like snake oil with a few poorly pulled together studies to sell a nootropic type substance with questionable efficacy because of consumer quantities. Best I could do is find some Safety Data sheets, which basically make it sound like an industrial chemical with mild toxicity. Pretty much confirms the statement on the website https://ketoneaid.com/pages/quality-ketone-ester Literally >Many companies will literally buy racemic ketone salts from China, place them in a tub in the USA, and label it "Made in the USA" or some will use the "with foreign and domestic ingredients", which usually means 99% of the product is from China, and maybe they throw in 1 thing from the USA. I don't know how a customer is able to decipher. There are a few drugs that mimic being drunk without the hangover, but they also tend to be addictive, and are only available by prescription in most countries.

>>18474 Never had a hangover in my life so isnt really what I was concerned over just the long term effects to appearance and renal health alcohol causes. Even if it is milder than alcohol but feels similar that would be fine. Benzos font sit well with me because an emotional blunting and memory problems they cause so isnt a good solution to me and while I may try GHB some time it also likely is not ideal for regular use.