Anyone Tried Leonurine?

Leonurine (also known as SCM-198 in research) is a pseudoalkaloid that has been isolated from Leonotis leonurus, Leonotis nepetifolia, Leonurus japonicus, Leonurus cardiaca (motherwort), Leonurus sibiricus, as well as other plants of family Lamiaceae. Leonurine is easily extracted into water. I got some recently but was unable to find any reliable dosage advice online. Whats up with this stuff? Seems like it has potential. Accidentally posted this on another thread, sorry.

Are you biologically speaking male or female? How much do you weigh in kilograms and are you planning on taking this daily or just once as a larger dose? And potential for what? All the info I find is health related. Seems rat studies often use 50 mg/kg/d. I am not confident on my ability to convert this to a human dose since I am not much into mathematical formulas like the conversion for that, especially if the studies did not disclose age and weight of rats used id be on the cautious side.

>>17808 I am a male and weigh about 125lb but that is not gonna be the same as for rats.

>>17809 >125 lb male Are you 14 or something?

>>17810 No, you're just obese.

>>17811 Only person I know that's 125 lb as an adult male is like 5 ft tall, or they're 14 years old.

>>17810 >>17811 >>17812 its been a while might be 130-140 now idk, im not a weightf-g

>>17799 >>17808 >Whats up with this stuff? >And potential for what? All the info I find is health related. If you find something you think can be used as a drug, check the usual suspects. 1) Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonurine 2) Erowid : https://www.erowid.org/plants/leonotis_leonurus/leonotis_leonurus.shtml 3) Bluelight : https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/wild-dagga-leonotis-leonurus-is-it-dangerous-maoi.830390/ +psychonautwiki for more common ones Summary: Smoke 2-4 flowers at a time until effects are felt, or drink a tea with a decent number (4ish+?) of flowers, steeped below boiling point. >>17809 >I am a male and weigh about 125lb Skeletan-kohai returns. Please eat more skele-ko, I want you to be healthy. Let me know if you get any effects, I've been sober for too long and it'd be fun to have some plants to try out.

>>17809 > I am a male and weigh about 125 lb but that is not gonna be the same as for rats. Yes. Dosage differences has to do with body weight and surface area of an animal etc. So about 57 kg you are. According to these a lab rat can weigh around 0.150 kg (150 g) is their standard weight. https://www.ijper.org/sites/default/files/IndJPhaEdRes-56-3-600.pdf https://www.jbclinpharm.org/articles/a-simple-practice-guide-for-dose-conversion-between-animals-and-human.pdf I found some better rat dose info on leonurine. Apparently NOAEL is used most frequently for determining dose in human studies. It says for rats it's 1000 mg/kg as safe but suggests 10 mg/kg for daily use. Just have to convert that to human dosage. With the range they listed on rat weight I am unsure if their study had rats a bit underweight from the norm or not. This paper used a hot water suspension extraction method. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247770854_Toxicity_assessment_of_Leonuri_Herba_aqueous_extract_orally_administered_to_rats_for_13_consecutive_weeks So uhh HED = human equivalent dose Km = average weight in kilograms divided by average body surface area which is 37 for a human and 6 for a rat If we go by averages HED (mg / kg) = animal dose (mg / kg) × Km So then HED (mg / kg) = 1000 (mg / kg) × (6 / 37) HED = 162.162 mg / kg Now same for the daily usage case HED (mg / kg) = 10 (mg / kg) × (6 / 37) HED = 1.621 mg / kg Then just multiply by your weight in kg. You get 9243.243 mg (about 9.243 grams) in one go or 92.432 mg daily. In theory at least. Someone should check my method to make sure I did it correctly. You also should ideally do more research not take this at face value beyond just being an educated guess from someone not too familiar with this procedure. >>17811 You may you have an eating disorder thinking above 125 is obese

>>17824 > You get 9243.243 mg (about 9.243 grams) in one go or 92.432 mg daily. While the idea is fair, I'd be REALLY wary about converting doses this way. Pretty sure the variation in active from rodents to people can be many orders of magnitude, but I don't have any sources off-hand. (To check, we can do this same conversion for a few common drugs ala morphine, amphetamine, etc.).

>>17826 That is the more conservative mathematical formula it seems. When I use something automated like this https://acmeresearchlabs.in/animal-to-human-dose-calculator/ I get 53512.47 mg/kg (53.512 grams / kg) which would be 3050.211 grams in one go or 535.12 mg/kg daily which would be 30.50184 grams daily for OP. This seemed like far far too much instinctively so I did it manually using one method in one of my links. Alternatively in case of something like this you can just look up what the usual dosing is in traditional Chinese medicine. They would't be giving anyone quantities that are fatal on casual observation, though they may be using doses potentially harmful long term if no human studies are conducted. The negative risks seem more an issue for females as many only apply to them so there is less concern for a male but this is a supposedly GABAergic compound so caution should be used.

>>17832 just to demonstrate how far these sorts of conversions can be, I tested it with morphine LD50 (300mg/kg in rats, estimated from [1]) using the acmereresearch conversion tool: 300mg/kg, 1kg rat, 60kg human, estimated LD50 is 4661mg/kg. Note than an actual lethal dose of morphine is around 200mg+ [2]. testing the other method you gave: HED= 6/37 * 300mg/kg = 48mg/kg or 2.9 grams of morphine this is FAR more sane, but still off by an order of magnitude. takeaway: HED by body-surface area method is the best of a bad bunch. props to lain for finding some different methods. don't use these methods to estimate actual doses, if the drug is a total unknown always start as low as you can and work your way up (e.g: 1mg, 2mg, 5mg. etc). [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-morphine-LD-50-by-strain-and-sex-The-morphine-LD-50-was-determined-for-each-of-the_fig4_344240675 [2] https://www.addictionresource.net/lethal-doses/morphine/

>>17857 Honestly id question reliability of an article written by an addiction group not citing sources. I would think there is a chance of them rounding numbers to simplify for memory purposes or it is possible they are using animal dose for reference and converting it with some unstated formula instead of actual human case reports. So it certainly complicates things if they don't cite all their sources and methods. Considering this compound acts on GABA perhaps it is better to also look at lethal dose of a benzodiazepine for comparison. For alprazolam which Pfizer claims the NOAEL is 25 mg/kg/d in rats so for reference one would need to find studies that mention what the lowest reported overdose was in a human at perhaps? Though case studies are not always reliable either because there can be unknown factors like other drugs used unknown to coroners. Seems there is a reason why there is competing animal to human dose formulas to use.

>>17860 >Honestly id question reliability of an article written by an addiction group not citing sources. I would think there is a chance of them rounding numbers to simplify for memory purposes This is fair. I tried to find actual LD-50 data, but it was shockingly unavailable (only blood-levels, but I have no idea how/if it is even possible to convert those to estimate original dose consumed). For reference, typical recreational doses of morphine in non-tolerant uses are ~15mg, and 30mg+ is considered extremely heavy (ref: psychonautwiki/erowid). A dose ~10-20x being near the LD-50 is not an unreasonable assumption for morphine. > lethal dose of a benzodiazepine for comparison Probably no such thing, at least not in practice with real humans. Benzos on their own are hilariously hard to overdose on. Only when combined with alcohol /opiates do you see any real risk of respiratory depression/death. sources (I don't feel like looking for a """real""" source, so anecdotals for now) 1) Had a friend consume ~30++mg of phenazepam, IIRC normal dose is ~0.5mg, experienced zero negative health effects (besides the ~7 day blackout) 2) Had another friend attempt suicide with one of the *zolam analogues back in the day, IIRC he ate approx. a 100x overdose, again, no negative health effects besides the blackout and related injuries. another thing to note: leonurine looks like a soykafty gabaA agonist (~10-100 fold weaker than diazepam, i think) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27524967/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-5-uid-4, figure 5 shows the inflection point of the effect curve is around 100uM) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC345232/?page=2, fig 1 shows the inflection point of the effect curve ~0.1-1uM Surprisingly, I couldn't find a "clean" statement of binding affinity for either of these, so take all of this with a fat grain of salt. Since it binds the 5-HT-3A receptor much more tightly, I would expect any negative side-effects to come from that. anyways BACK TO THE MAIN POINT OF THE FUARKING THREAD OP, did your candy-ass eat this soykaf yet, or are you just jerking us in circles for no reason?

>>17870 im doing so many different herbs, extracts, and alkaloids, im tryna be careful with anything that im unsure of. want to try it soon. thanks for making this a good thread guyz.

Old Pee here, finally gonna get around to trying this stuff. Hopefully sometime today.

I've done plenty of wild dagga (the informal name for the plant in your post) plenty of times, both flower leafs and stem. It's psychoactive, but it's very meh. Nothing worth writing home about. Don't waste your time or money, I recommend blue lotus flower instead.