evangelized sober lains

anyone going straight and narrow? i left weed last summer and am struggling to kick alcohol rn. wondering who out there has experience quitting the sauce for their own good. tips, quips, narratives, etc

never quit, merely didn't start. Good luck lain. But don't obsess over it too hard, being straighedge is just about as interesting as being a weedeater; not very.

>>17487 Beware of AA (Friends of bAAl / bill, etc.) "12 Step" methods, empirically proven not to work (Canaanite derivative [mystery] cults). Do not fall for sunk cost fallacy or How I learned to start worrying about re-doing all the "steps" (levels of initiation) for no f-ing reason. Don't take a small "relapse" as a Fall-of-Babylon moment (or excuse to binge till "hitting rock-bottom, again" because of a single misstep). Sadly, what once was a decent club of "sobriety" (self medicating via enjoying the "high" of non-drinking [surrealist] life) has become a form of mystery tradition complete with original sin ("once an alcoholic always an alcoholic") and false prophet gurus ("sponsors"). In short, get the AA book, it has good/funny/relatable ancedotes about pitfalls to avoid, but don't join AA or other 12 step clubs unless you want your (ever-present / omnipotent / omniscient) "Addiction" (boogie-man/Satan/God) to forever control your life: "relapse is part of recovery". Much if not all of the [verbal] tradition that steeps 12 step groups is absent in the original AA texts (even this is somewhat preachy -- i.e., requires belief&trust in a "higher power" [which does exist egregorically), but keeps one dependent on a group/cult for one's "sobriety". In short: When you really do want to kick the habit you will do so, it's difficult to imagine otherwise. Try consciously making an effort to substitute drink with some other positive enjoyable things. I find it were enough to clearly appreciate that I were enjoying something besides booze, and comment to myself (in journal) that I had a better time without the drink.

>>17489 unhinged but weirdly correct. 12 step is a horrible cult which doesn't even correlate with success. my friend was mandated to be in a narcotics anonymous program for a medication she was prescribed - it was necessary that she be given it. she had a terrible time, to say the least. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/

>>17491 >forgot archive.is whoops https://www.npr.org/2014/03/23/291405829/with-sobering-science-doctor-debunks-12-step-recovery https://archive.is/ZSMon

>>17487 There were a few things that particularly helped me work towards sobriety. I think the point of accepting that you're an addict - or at least, substance abuser - does help in the sense of noting it isn't just the substance, its you, and changing the substance won't make the problems go away even if it lessens the impact. Secondly, realizing that forced "moderation" isn't moderation if you're having to fight yourself to accomplish that. I really had to itemize like the downsides of substance use versus the "upsides" and establish directly how substance use set me back on the things I wanted to accomplish and made it difficult for other things to be enjoyable because it was never as good as being high - and that severe up and down kept me trapped in a cycle of use and kept me from improving my life and addressing the issues and circumstances that led me to use in the first place. >the upsides of use: really just the high for as long as it lasts, the temporary avoidance of emotional issues, and enhanced "productivity" which was usually quite directionless >the downsides: the cost, the wasted time, the postponed emotional challenges, the social issues, the health impact, and the difficulty it imposed to actually address any of those problems. a big thing for me was also learning to deal with soykaf not being okay and just having to sit with that. it's honestly been a major stride for me to be able to just be at home, sober, and posting on here right now and not be panicked because of it. i've been through a lot of soykaf and a lot of it still hurts, but trying to get rid of the pain with substances just pushes dealing with it off and accepting that the pain will be there - but i can live with it - has made life so much simpler and easier. ive been about a year off crack and meth now, about eight months off coke/stims in general, and a few months off alcohol and i'm feeling better than I have in a long time. unfortunately I still think of the highs and it haunts me - but every day it gets easier. >>17489 AA groups still vary place to place and I think taken for what they are the meetings can be beneficial and participation in the various rituals isn't compulsory. I haven't personally taken part in the 12 steps deliberately in my own sobriety, but I think many of the steps (as in the literature you mentioned) can be useful. I think in particular that if being around other people working towards sobriety and frequently being around that helps you a lot, it can still be worthwhile - I have seen it help for people in that circumstance. Anyways, exercise caution and don't treat it as the only path to sobriety by any means, but it can be beneficial for the right person in the right circumstances.

>>17487 I went to NA for my addiction in my early sobriety days because I was told it was the only option to get clean. After months of trying to FORCE myself to identify a higher power, I realized it was just not cutting for me. Try NA/AA and if you don't like it, no big deal. But don't trip yourself out about everything they say. They say all this soykaf claiming it's the "only option to get clean", "do the steps or die", "you can't do this alone", but you could geniunely learn something from one of those programs that could help you in your sobriety if you take the bullshit with a grain of salt. I wish you the best of luck, lain

>>17487 30 days in jail will do wonders for your sobriety(and desire to maintain it) lol t. crimes man

>>17494 Not OP, but quality post. From what I've heard it's the accountability of the buddy method that helped many. But you're right, don't get sucked into the cult aspect of it. As with anything, there's a financial incentive to bad mouth competing options. Personally I managed to moderate alc with the method you described. I needed a clear head and I just couldn't have it while drunk. But I also don't have that big of a chemical addiction to it so it's easy for me to not touch a bottle and have some recreational drinks once in a while. But I'm well aware that many are not so lucky. For me it is tobacco use and porn. I've got a mountain to climb and those things make me preemptively tired. I'm aware of my addiction and the obvious conflict in goals and instant gratification. And will try to cut it down a step at a time and instead find joy in the work I need or want to do. And advice is appreciated! Also good luck, OP. I know it ain't easy but it's possible.

>>17494 >I really had to itemize like the downsides of substance use versus the "upsides" and establish directly how substance use set me back on the things I wanted to accomplish... I'm here right now. Not done any meaningful amount of the harder stuff, but spent my last few years being constantly stoned/tripping/drunk. It's been under control for the last year or so (partially due coming into the Christian fold), but even the occasional use only ever handicaps me from doing the things that make me feel good. I'm spending a few months at home where I can't use anything save for tobacco. I find it pretty confusing. There's an incredible dissonance between my intent and my knowledge/experience. I don't actually want to stop. I'm not using right now and have no will to. But when I go back to the place where I actually live, with no one to stop me, I don't have any reason to not get high. More like I haven't really internalised the reason to stay sober. I know the reasons full well. It's just an idle activity, is an explanation I realise as I type this. I sorted out my demons over this last year, I'm not running from anything. I only am addicted to nicotine. I'm just really, really used to idling. I'm not (currently) compelled to work, and so I just idle when I face the slightest inconvenience in my other pursuits. And what better way is there to idle than to get high. I have centred my life on idling, and created many systems to idle the best I can.

Sometimes just stopping doing drugs will solve your problems. Maybe you use harmful drugs because you hang out with the wrong people, drugs are too readily available, you aren't educated enough about their negative effects, you develop a habit, you become dependent, etc.. Other times you weren't happy to begin with, which is why you turned to drugs, which gives you happiness in the short term but worsens your life overall. When you try to quit things get better, but you still don't feel truly happy, so you end up using again. Fortunately happiness is just a balance of chemicals in your brain, you can maintain it by eating healthy, exercising, getting proper sleep, having meaningful relationships with others, and finding purpose in life. Some people might also find help through psychotherapy, meditation, spirituality, or fasting/keto, do what works for you. Although the brain makes up about 2 percent of the body mass, it uses about 20 percent of the energy you get from food. If you are not eating well, your brain will be the first to show symptoms. You will be surprised how much better you feel day to day be changing your diet. Eat whole grain, whole fruits, vegetables, fish, nuts, legumes... Don't eat red meat, processed foods, sugar, or anything that you personally feel affects you. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services recommends 150 minutes of moderate Aerobic activity(like walking) or 75 minutes of vigorous Aerobic activity(like jogging or jumping jacks) each week. You could do this with 30 minutes of moderate or 15 minutes of vigorous exercise each week day. They also recommend strength training twice a week, just one set of each exercise is enough to keep your muscles in shape. Good luck out there lainons, and don't give up!

>>17487 I threw away all my opiate pain pills because I was starting to become reliant on them and now I feel real sicky. I was snorting them multiple times a day, it felt like it was getting out of hand, but I assume It's still nothing compared to stuff like intravenous heroin. I kinda felt like I didn't have the willpower to taper off of them gradually, which is why I simply tossed them, but now I regret not even trying. Fortunately, I have some time off work, so I can just wallow in my withdraw illness at home.

Ive been able to kick everything but kratom and nicotine. That includes alcohol, meth, xanax, adderall, cocaine, nitrous, and maybe some other things im forgetting. My biggest tip is to fully allow yourself to feel bad when you take something, often we get in a mode where say we are drinking and we drink to feel better so when bad feelings arise or anxious thoughts we shut them out so as to not ruin our high so to speak. I never had to "hit rock bottom" to quit any of these things and this is the only reason I can think of as to why, after months of using stims for most of the week id start thinking about how im isolating myself and losing touch with people and not doing anything with my life and start anxiously spiraling until id be on the floor in the fetal position crying. While high too, not on the comedown. This was exacerbated by the fact that eventually every time id start doing a substance id already start getting worried about the comedown within maybe 5 minutes. If it was meth itd be only after an hour id start feeling this twinge of a sense that it was wearing off (even though it obviously wasnt i just wasnt coming up anymore). Again leading to a whole host of anxious thoughts and fear about how bad my night was about to go. This is true for pretty much everh substance ive taken, eventually I start fixating more and more on the inevitable awful comedown where my mind will be filled with panic and pain which makes the time the substance does something for me shorter and shorter. Just naturally this makes it so the consequences massively outweigh the benefits. Its one of the few areas my depressed anxious brain has been my salvation. Its hardest to use this strategy for alcohol and painkillers and things that you can sort of just drift off to sleep on, but it will still work. And all you have to do is think without distractions for even just a bit of your high. Not everyone but many with substance abuse issues need distractions or a co activity to make the comedown tolerable and also the high itself sustainable and engaging for so long. Without these things either the high or the comedown or both can be unbearable. This might sound stupid or maybe im not explaining it very well but its something I came up with after reading about the success of some harm reduction clinic that required people get their dose and then also stay for the first few hours of their high there at the facility with just a psychologist and not much else. I had tried out AA and NA and while I learned some valuable things I dont think its the best way or even a good way. You could point to the fact that I still am on kratom and ask who am I to tell anyone anything, but I have moved past countless fairly long term addictions by now. Not only that but I still will drink very infrequently, and for 5 years now have not "slipped" back into alcoholism and not even slipped into "once a week" drinking. What I heard from people in these groups did not sound like a win to me, where they have to cut out friends and immediately run for the hills if a party ends up having drugs or alcohol and they cant even look at it. Im aware to me they would say "sure you have had 5 years of only rarely partaking in these things but trust me you WILL slip back into it... abstinence is the only way" but to that id say its exactly because they think like that that they inevitably relapse and have to live in fear of various powders and pills and drinks. Aside from the kratom which im currently working with a therapist to quit, I dont crave any of these things from my past but if they are there at a party and I dont have much going on the next day sometimes I will partake. Sometimes I wont, my way of handling this has led me to have a very internalized sense of how these things affect me and the pain and trouble they can cause and the ways they can disrupt my week entirely, and I make my decision off of that so often the decision is just intuitively no. I dont have to "resist" or white knuckle anything I just can look at cocaine and vividly imagine myself being unable to sleep that night anxiously running through all these scenarios about whether my friends still like me or not but being unable to ask for validation that they do because its 2 am and im tweaking and it would only make things worse and so i have to just sit with this unresolved problem running through my mind for hours and hours and wake up the next day in a daze cause I hardly slept throwing off my sleep schedule and fuarrrking up the subsequent days as I try to readjust. Which when I ask people who partake in substances here and there but are not consistent users nor have any substance abuse issues this their thought processes as well. They will say no to a drink simply because it wouldnt benefit them, or they have something to do the next morning, or it just generally doesnt sound good right now. That is the goal for me, there is intrinsic reasons the various addictive substances need to be quit in the first place, if there were no downsides it wouldnt really be a problem. These reasons can be realized and internalized by someone who maybe has the lack of foresight or ignores these reasons to have a better escape. That being said I still around 7 years ago partook in a year of complete abstinence from everything and I think this is important or necessary to this process if you have been abusing drugs or alcohol for awhile to remind you of what your baseline is and how these substances affect it. You cant really do what im saying without that, and thats where AA or NA does come in handy to hold you accountable and get you there. In addition one thing I disagree with NA and AA on is this "you cant quit for external reasons it has to come from within". That makes sense if you follow their logic that abstinence is the only way but you absolutely can quit for external reasons and most without substance abuse issues have external activities and people and expectations and deadlines that keep them in order and arent just a reason but the primary reason they dont just get drunk on a weekday. If they "lose" these things or people they dont just become an alcoholic suddenly (though they might for a bit) they find new friends or new activities or a new job or whatever to give their life meaning. Its not that their higher power says they cant its that they have a drive to find people and acticivities that give their life purpose and when you feel the world expects things from you or that you have something to contribute suddenly substance abuse gets in the way and isnt appealing. This myth that someone with substance abuse disorder is just so mentally different from a normal person that the only solution is to believe you are not in control of your own actions and will always snort anything someone brings into the room and you are doomed to always be an addict and relapse I think does more damage than good except in the worst of cases. If you have your brain with you still you only need to force space to really think about how much xyz substance is hurting you and interfering with your life and goals, you just need to envision the full course of your day every time you decide to drink. Go ahead and drink still, go buy that bottle, but just remember each time to stop and think about how in your current state one drink will lead to two and three and how your entire day is about to dissapear and how sick you will feel spinning in bed that night and waking up the next morning and how each day is going to go on like this until you stop. Again its very simple, you dont have to stop through sheer force of will you are free to drink with the caveat that you must allow lets say one hour of pure thinking time about your situation about what you want and about what you are doing. The other more difficult thing id say is no other substance to mask the hangover, no ibuprofren for headaches, no whatever for nausea. Let yourself fully experience what its doing to you and the after effects. Anyways I hope this helps I kept coming back to write this inbetween cleaning soykaf up in my house so its very disjointed and I dont feel I got my point across very well but maybe you can parse through it and dig what I was trying to say out if you want.

>>18489 your first biggest piece of advice is something ive been learning on my own just recently. your effort is appreciated

I thought about it and I can't really find a good reason to quit. I'm rich enough to not need to work, I don't want to be old (and I'm pretty healthy anyway), I feel good (not guilty) when break laws and violate social norms, and drugs only enhance my performance in other things I like to do. After about 20 years of doing drugs, the main downside is the stigma is a problem for other people in my life or when I'm meeting new people. I think if the stigma went away like it has for coffee there would be no problem. I take a month-long full-mormon T-break like every other year and it really gives me no benefits other than being smug over other people. Inb4 I'm just not suffering long enough

>>17487 I can’t make myself do anything positive but somehow I can stop take away bad things really easily. I used all kinds of stims and coke got a massive dui and vaped 800 puffs a day, smoked pot, tried 7-oh 2-3 times and I quit it all just because. I don’t understand it. I just did it. But some how after so much agony and effort in mental health treatment I always end up miserable ruminating in my bed unemployed doing literally nothing all day. Watching tv feels like an accomplishment after all these years. And yet… I don’t even drink coffee. Stone cold sober.

Been struggling with the need to get fully sober for the past 4 years. I overcame a decade of opi addiction via ibogaine opi detox, but since then i have still remained stuck on weed and often drinking, sometimes n2o and kava. I recently turned 31 and my living situation is about to change drastically and after 7 years I will be living with my family again. I am actually looking forward to this because my family is completely sober and does not smoke or drink, not even caffeine at all and is willing to help me in whatever way they can. After 18 years of nearly constant cannabinoid use (if not real ones synthetic/semi-synthetic ones) I really feel it being a drag on my health mentally and physically and at this time its my only "addiction". >>17494 >I think the point of accepting that you're an addict - or at least, substance abuser - does help in the sense of noting it isn't just the substance, its you, and changing the substance won't make the problems go away even if it lessens the impact. Secondly, realizing that forced "moderation" isn't moderation if you're having to fight yourself to accomplish that. I have experienced this for myself and also heard it from many long term addicts/alcoholics. Definitely true. >I really had to itemize like the downsides of substance use versus the "upsides" and establish directly how substance use set me back on the things I wanted to accomplish and made it difficult for other things to be enjoyable because it was never as good as being high - and that severe up and down kept me trapped in a cycle of use and kept me from improving my life and addressing the issues and circumstances that led me to use in the first place. This is exactly what I am going through right now and a good explanation of what makes the cycle so hard to break. >a big thing for me was also learning to deal with soykaf not being okay and just having to sit with that. it's honestly been a major stride for me to be able to just be at home, sober, and posting on here right now and not be panicked because of it. i've been through a lot of soykaf and a lot of it still hurts, but trying to get rid of the pain with substances just pushes dealing with it off and accepting that the pain will be there - but i can live with it - has made life so much simpler and easier. ive been about a year off crack and meth now, about eight months off coke/stims in general, and a few months off alcohol and i'm feeling better than I have in a long time. unfortunately I still think of the highs and it haunts me - but every day it gets easier. God bless fren. Hope you keep staying clean, it really is not easy. Lately I have found even after 3+ years I have to check myself to avoid opi relapse after going through some things. >>18481 >I'm just really, really used to idling. I'm not (currently) compelled to work, and so I just idle when I face the slightest inconvenience in my other pursuits. And what better way is there to idle than to get high. I have centred my life on idling, and created many systems to idle the best I can. In many ways this is what I have become at my worst. I use idling as a cope and its destroying my life in many ways. >>18489 great post. a lot of things relatable in here. hope all is going well with tapering off kratom, that was one of the opis i did the most in my 10 years and the addiction to it can be just as powerful as opium/pills/heroin/fentanyl after long term use. Lately I have realized that getting stoned or drinking does not actually help me feel good and escape, I know myself too well now and have been through the cycle too many times and even when im high i often still feel like soykaf because i know i do it only because i want to ignore life and my feelings, which is becoming more impossible the older i get. All my friends I grew up with became alcoholics and junkies, most long term. Even my fren who showed me lainchan many years ago has been on kratom for and alcohol to the extreme for almost 15 years now. I think a lot more people on here are strung out then some posters may realize. >>18558 what drugs do you do specifically and how much?

I just quit. Haven't drank since. But I also have my life in order and where I want to be, so drinking is entirely unneeded for me. It's easier to quit when there's no positives.

i'm turning 20 in a few days. wasted my teenage years on relapse cycles. i think i'm done lains. i'm out. this fast life just ain't for me. i'm gonna be like the average person, just with a few extra scars, cigarette burns and probably some heart condition, but i'll be free...

op here. i was able to stop drinking last summer by using disulfiram... went back to drinking last month what with the holidays and all but i resumed the disulfiram this morning. id get to drinking relatively early in the day, so by nighttime even tho id be on my 10th drink or something (im a large-ish tall guy fwiw) id be blacked out. with family and gf getting worried, i need to pump the breaks again. unfortunately as of a month or two ago im back on weed as well, but its not nearly as harmful as alcohol for me. i was zynning for about half of last year but ive managed to kick that too for now... never got as deep into nicotine as alc/weed. so i have a black and mild every couple weeks, mostly out of frustration, but thankfully its been stable. im sure i could spin my wheels more on the merits of sobriety vs. drug use. im so keen on beating myself up over this or that so maybe its better for now i just stick to the facts. wishing yall the best.... may this be a great year for you <3

I started drinking at 14 and never stopped. The longest I've been sober is maybe 3 months. It's hard, man. I went through a lot of abuse as a kid - it made me awkward and weird. Drinking as a teen helped me get out of my shell. But even at an early age I remember just getting drunk alone and watch Avatar the last airbender lmao, or drawing. Now that I'm in my mid thirties my social anxiety is basically gone, but the desire to escape loneliness by drinking is still there; that's how alcohol has kept it's grip on me. When I get a craving it isn't even because something going wrong. It's often just because I'm bored. Sometimes I'm not even lonely, but then I drink and the buzz reminds me that I actually am - ha. A lot of it is connected to person or place. Like if my partner leaves the house for work I know she'll be gone for 8 hrs and I can have uninterrupted solo drinking time. I'll just go nuts. Be hammered by noon, cry, cut myself, cry more, write some utter soykaf, puke myself silly, take a bath, shower, and attempt to remove the stench off my breath before she comes home. This year I'm dedicated to getting sober. I'm sick of this. It gives me NOTHING. I'm literally financially successful, I've gone to therapy for years for my traumas, I have friends, I have a loving long-term partner. What is alcohol offering me??? But even as I type this, the blasted drink has it's claws in me. I don't know; some part of me craves being destroyed.

>>19877 You should stop anon, you can do it.

>>19877 I can relate to some extent. 9 months of war. Alcohol ever since.