Nicotine as study drug/ADD self-treatment

Why I tried it: I got sick of waiting forever for an ADHD diagnosis and started taking nicotine (gum, lozenges, patches) to self-medicate my ADD. I've never smoked in my life, and I decided to try out nicotine because, in its isolated form and in low doses, it is totally harmless, but is a proven stimulant. Nicotine increases people's short and long term memory, increases focus and concentration, and importantly, it puts dopamine in your brain. When isolated from the other chemicals present in tobacco and cigarettes, its addictive potential is also a lot lower. I did some Googling and learned that there are in fact a small number of peer-reviewed studies that suggest it is particularly effective at dealing with inattentiveness (much less so hyperactivity), which sounded perfect for me. I went and bought some 2mg nicotine gum, and since then I've bought 2mg lozenges and 14mg patches. My experience: After a few weeks on nicotine, my experience is that it really works. My productivity has roughly quadrupled. I'm getting all my chores done, I'm getting homework done on time, my room is clean, I've started cooking meals, I can do job apps and taxes with little mental friction (just take a lozenge if I start to get exhausted), and when I get home after a long day at work I no longer feel any mental exhaustion. I can study and read tough books without constantly getting distracted. I no longer feel like I have to compulsively check the internet for updates and hit F5 on reddit, 4chan etc. I also don't feel like drinking alcohol as often, which is positive even though I would mainly drink weekend nights. My short and long-term memory has increased a lot. Where I would previously have to keep checking something or looking it back up, it now just pops into my head. I also don't feel any mental exhaustion anymore, even after a long day at work (but still feel normal tiredness). Nicotine hasn't solved all my problems, but right now I feel like I'm actually able to deal with life. If I eventually do get diagnosed and a doctor offers me Adderal, I'll try it, but I don't feel like I need a medication anymore. Side effects: I've consistently experienced intense/memorable dreams since starting nicotine, which is neutral (most of them are cool, some of them are scary-- which is pretty normal for dreams). If I don't take off the nicotine patch at least an hour before going to sleep, I wake up with a very slight headache, which goes away when I put one back on. I don't wake up with the headache if I do take off the patch an hour before bed. There's a very positive interaction with caffeine-- without nicotine, caffeine makes me nervous and doesn't help me focus at all, but on nicotine, I get no negative effects from caffeine. As for delivery methods, I don't recommend nicotine gum, as it gave me a sore jaw after a few days. Patches are the most convenient method of taking nicotine, and lozenges are a good way to modulate your dose when needed. As for addiction/dependence, I'm not really concerned about it, for the same reasons a lot of people aren't concerned about Adderal addiction/dependence. Cost/accessibility: pretty cheap if you get patches online or get the mini lozenges in large packages. Totally legal, no prescription required. Available online, at Walmart, CVS, etc. TL;DR: I think nicotine is a seriously good stimulant that will greatly increase your productivity, it should be one of your first choices if you're looking for a study drug or something like that. Also a real treatment for ADD/ADHD or mental exhaustion.

I second this, nicotine is great. Even aside from the a e s t h e t i c of a late night smoke, it's genuinely a great drug. This is a pretty interesting talk from Will Self (you may remember from the psychogeography thread a while ago) about nicotine, I don't agree with some of it but it's interesting nonetheless https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldx7LKA7aBE Oh and don't start smoking guys.

I tried half of a 2mg nicotine gum and i wanted to puke, is there a tolerance buildup or am i just weak?

>>1644 Were you following the instructions? You're supposed to chew it until it tingles and then park it on your gums, not constantly chew or gulp. 2mg gum is really not a big dose.

>>1645 I did follow the instructions, but I might ave swallowed some saliva. Maybe I have a nicotine sensitivity? I'll try the full 2mg and report back.

Don't do the gum. I swear to god that soykaf is meant to get you hooked and keep you hooked. Its so strong nothing short of dip will work for you. That wouldn't be so bad were it not so expensive. Idk about the patches but I assume they have a similar problem. I recommend getting a vape. Much easier to control your doses and it's one of the cheaper options. Just be aware that its easy to just chain vape all day, so get some low nicotine juice to placate the oral fixation aspect so you don't end up really dependent. Then get the good high nic soykaf for when you really need it. Fwiw I also have ADD and I smoked cigs for years.

Love the stuff, I actually came to it through http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine researching nootropics and trying to find, sort of, very safe, well studied stimulants/nootropics to use before jumping off the deep end and hitting cerebrolysin and NSI-189 semax etc. Anyway I'm also a never smoker. First time i tried it popped a 4mg gum and jumped on the bus home. Serious nausea and dizziness/headache. Tried this a couple more times with the same results. Then i started cutting the gum into fours, and iv been chewing them ever since, its not actually like a jittery/anxiety stimulating feeling, more like a calm but focused and kind of dizzy but not too dizzy to take you out of focus. The best effect of nicotine I've felt is as a mood stabilizer, really makes me feel chill/calm/happy, and that in turn stops me falling into depressive thought loops.

>>1647 >I swear to god that soykaf is meant to get you hooked and keep you hooked. It's meant to relieve the immediate urge to suck on a user. You are using a product intended for existing addicts who were hooked years ago.

What about dripping e-juice on your skin?

>>1640 interesting question actually, I was aware nicotine is not the whole truth in the whole "smoking causes people to die" stereotype we've been living with for the past few years, especially after watching that Will Self video (thanks a lot >>1642) above I felt prompted to actually research a bit. Nicotine, like many other substances, are totally natural for our body to take, as they are found in tomatoes, potatoes and such. Nicotine is in fact a neuroactive substance but actually has "weak reinforcing properties" [1] on its own. The FDA also (quite recently I think) determined that nicotine replacement therapy products don't have to label the addictiveness of nicotine anymore, granted they don't contain any carcinogens: "The changes that FDA is allowing to these labels reflect the fact that although any nicotine-containing product is potentially addictive, decades of research and use have shown that NRT products sold OTC do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence." [2] So I do suppose the addictive components of tobacco are mostly additives, which was new to me, I thought the additives were solely the sources of all the carcinogens, but it actually makes perfect sense that big tobacco giants are trying to find new substances to increase that potential for addiction. A paper with the title "Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats" [3] (the title already gives a good idea of its contents) greatly suggest that MAOs (MAO-A, MAO-B) for example play a major role in the addictive properties of tobacco. I guess the use of nicotine for productivity is actually not a meme and I'm all the more interested in trying it out for my writing/programming/music listening or perhaps even relaxation. I never smoked tobacco, and I only ever took larger amounts of nicotine through the added tobacco in the few pots friends shared with me (which I absolutely fuarrrking despised for its taste, the tobacco I mean). I'm in no need for any sort of medication, and while people generally seem to suggest the use of nicotine replacement therapy products for these kinds of medication purposes, nobody seems to suggest nicotine to sort of "enhance" some of the daily productivity/relaxation routines like writing or enjoying some exquisite music. My question to you is, would you recommend the use of gum/lozenges/patches (I'm especially fond of the patches) for the kind of purpose I expressed earlier? I saw some people ask the same question as me, but all the answers feel based somehow. more interesting stuff https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-nicotine-patches-used-as-stimulants-I-was-never-a-smoker-but-the-patches-felt-great https://www.quora.com/What-would-a-nicotine-patch-do-to-a-non-smoker [1] http://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593.full [2] https://www.integration.samhsa.gov/health-wellness/NRT_Label_Change_0413.pdf [3] http://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593.full>>1640

>>1650 I've read it works, but it sounds riskier, less consistent, and less convenient than a patch or lozenge. Cheaper though.

>I guess the use of nicotine for productivity is actually not a meme and I'm all the more interested in trying it out for my writing/programming/music listening or perhaps even relaxation >My question to you is, would you recommend the use of gum/lozenges/patches (I'm especially fond of the patches) for the kind of purpose I expressed earlier? For me personally, I tried it out of desperation and lack of access to prescribed meds. However, since it's harmless, it can't hurt to try it out. Even if you're a normally-functioning adult, nicotine will enhance your ability to focus on coding/writing/etc. As far as entertainment goes, I haven't really noticed a big difference in music-listening, but I can follow along with the plot in movies and anime significantly better, as well as reading books of course. For relaxation, I can't say I've experienced a "wave of relief/relaxation" using nicotine, so unless you vaped high doses I doubt you'd feel much. However, it does reduce general anxiety. I usually had minor anxiety over some social situations, noisy/crowded stores, etc. which I don't feel when I'm on nicotine. In my experience, it makes me slightly more impulsive because I don't worry about things as much, I just go ahead and do them.

>>1653 This is really interesting. I have ADD and I might just have a look into this. I also struggle with getting work done and focusing on a single thing at a time.

>>1656 thank you for your insight. I suppose I shouldn't expect too much of an effect from nicotine. Although the effects you described do resemble what I use caffeine for, albeit caffeine is probably not as strong comparably. >>1640 did mention that nicotine and caffeine can yield positive effects when used in conjunction. In the end I'll just have to try and see for myself. >>1657 Yeah indeed, it seems like it is worth an attempt at the very least. In your case with ADD it might even help you concentrate, that is what several sources seem to suggest. I'm not very familiar with the difference between ADHD and ADD (is ADD comparable to ADHD minus the hyperactivity part?), so I can't be of much help there. Finding studies that specifically target ADD and the use of nicotine is significantly harder in comparison to finding some about ADHD and nicotine. There is this case report [1] (beware of potential placebo) and this other study, which both emphasize that nicotine can help relieve some of the symptoms: "People with depressive-spectrum disorders, schizophrenia, and adult ADHD tend to smoke heavily, which suggested to researchers that nicotine may soothe their symptoms. Common to all these disorders is a failure of attention, an inability to concentrate on particular stimuli and screen out the rest. Nicotine helps." [2] This passage specifically targets smokers, althought the article does go the extra mile to discern plain nicotine from cigarettes: "... Nicotine has always been regarded as medicinal and enjoyable at its usual low doses. Native Americans chewed tobacco to treat intestinal symptoms, and in 1560, Jean Nicot de Villemain sent tobacco seeds to the French court, claiming tobacco had medicinal properties and describing it as a panacea for many ailments. Higher doses are toxic, even lethal—which is why nicotine is used around the world as an insecticide. Yet few of the horrendous health effects of smoking are traceable to nicotine itself—cigarettes contain nearly 4,000 other compounds that play a role. ..."[2] That's about all the credible stuff I did find earlier regarding ADHD and nicotine, though the general consensus seems to be that nicotine does in fact help without putting your health at a great risk. At this point I'd be curious enough to try. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446482/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC526783/

Here's an excerpt from a pdf some lainon posted a while ago

>>1657 OP again, if you have ADD and aren't medicated, I really encourage it. Do your own reading/research to make sure it's right for you, and then give it a try. 2mg lozenges are the best way to test it IMO. >>1658 ADD is just the old term for the Primarily Inattentive subset of ADHD, meaning not really hyperactive. Here's a study that specifically tests a nicotine analog and nonsmokers who have ADHD: https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/news/19991202/nicotine-patch-help-concentration#1 https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/ajp.156.12.1931 (study uses a nicotine analog) I also recommend reading anecdotes from people who vape, as their experience is more in-line with that of users of patches/lozenges-- some key differences are that vaping does give faster spikes in nicotine dosage, and higher doses. At higher doses, nicotine stops acting as much as a stimulant, and acts as a depressant. This, among other things, actually reduces abuse potential (compare to people who go on adderal binges).

>>1659 Do we know if it has the same effect on people who are smokers? Not looking for justification, I smoke the cigs regardless. I just personally feel more alert after one, however that could easily be me frying those receptors by smoking more than is beneficial and needing it to be at a normal level now. That's mainly why I ask. If me as a smoker is ever at this higher performance when I smoke, or just what was normal/worse performance. It seems like its saying yes but I may not be getting what "not tobacco-deprived smokers" means.

>>1667 My understanding is that "not tobacco-deprived smokers" are regular smokers not in withdrawal. So you should see benefits with pure nicotine even if you're a regular smoker.

>>1649 Yeah I know that. I'm implying that the gum is there to make it almost impossible for addicts to quit. I don't have proof for this, of course.

>>1667 If you're a smoker, you're still getting benefits from nicotine, but there are too many other downsides to the other chemicals and the smoke for it to be worth it. For instance, all smokers are at a significantly lower risk of getting Parkinson's disease, due to the nicotine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5494127/ (there are many other articles and studies like this) But if you're smoking, you're way more likely to get cancer and a number of other unpleasant diseases. I suspect that the MAOIs and the restricted oxygen flow from smoking may counterbalance some, but not all, of the mental benefits of nicotine. There's a reason so many people talk about chainsmoking while they write papers and do similar work. It's not just because they're dependent.

>>1662 do you mind if I ask how much you pay for your lozenges/patches/gum? There seems to be only two different corps that sell these nicotine products in pharmacies in my country. The prices for 4mg gum @ 30 pieces is 14.28€, ~13€ for 2mg gum @ 30 pieces, the lozenges you can only buy the 2mg version of, for ~10.50€ @ 20 pieces. Patches are apparently supposed to last for 24h and are offered in 52.5mg, 35mg and 17.5mg versions, they all cost 27€ @ 7 pieces respectively. I can do basic math but I want to hear your verdict, should I simply go with the lozenges? Is it cost effective to get these 24h patches and does it actually help to have such a nicotine intake? Am I getting screwed over? It looks like the gums have the biggest market and are easiest/cheapest to get.

>>1673 Sounds overpriced. There are 14mg patches on Amazon for $30 per 30 patches, or a dollar per patch. Also on Amazon, $24 for 81 2mg mini lozenges, or roughly $0.3 dollars per. At stores the prices are way higher, yeah. I guess they just expect users to be in a hurry to get their fix. Still, I've found some decent deals at Walmart.

>>1674 that is like kicking dead whales down the beach as these nicotine products are apparently supposed to only be offered in pharmacies, and they may even be given out to people with a prescription only, I'm not sure yet. These nicotine products are advertised as sole nicotine replacement therapy products. I need to check whether I can just get them off amazon and whether that would actually be illegal.

>>1676 >that is like kicking dead whales down the beach as these nicotine products are apparently supposed to only be offered in pharmacies, and they may even be given out to people with a prescription only, I'm not sure yet. Possibly in some European nanny state, but why the fuarrrk would nicotine patches be illegal while cigarettes are still legal? Think about it. Anyway, if that turns out to be the case, vaping or Swedish-style snus (surprisingly safe form of tobacco) are still an option.

>>1678 >but why the fuarrrk would nicotine patches be illegal while cigarettes are still legal? that's what I was thinking, them being listed as products you can only physically get in pharmacies, possibly requiring a prescription got me confused. I know for sure now that a prescription is not necessary and I suppose my other assumption of having to buy them in a pharmacy was silly as well, it's just that all the pharmacies don't deliver them.

>>1678 actually in my city in US they are trying to ban menthol cigarettes and vape juice but not regular cigarettes. Also I think in most of US clove cigs are illegal but clove cigars are okay. These things rarely make actual sense. If I had to guess logic behind this its that itd be easier to poison yourself with the patches as somebody could just apply a bunch. Still is very stupid, thats just my guessing into how they reason hiding patches away behind pharmacies and not cigarettes.

>>1711 That's the tobacco lobby at work, they want their products as addictive as possible.

>>1640 I got few days ago a box with 2mg nicotine gums. It was really cheap here, 5 euros for a 24 pack. Sadly after noticing how addictive nicotine is I dropped it. I'm already dependent on some nootropics and I've to say this soykaf won't do my any good

I've also found that nicotine is extremely underrated. I started vaping just to test out it's effects and it's quite pleasant and barely addictive (although I should mention I've never found any drugs particularly addictive) All the upsides I wanted to mention have already been mentioned so here are the downsides I've noticed: Taking it before exercise causes my chest to tighten Extremely fast tolerance build up. Very similar to caffeine. For that reason I don't take it more often than once a week. Can give me a headache (I think this is mostly because the vape dehydrates me) which is relieved by drinking water or just taking longer breaks between drags.