Drugs, nootropics, and rituals for social anxiety

I suffer from social anxiety, and it's safe to say that many others here suffer from it as well. Throughout my life, I've thrown away lots of things that were handed to me: A life changing job, friends, higher eduation, even a girlfriend at one point. I've ran away from these things so I could sit alone in my room. I've been an asocial NEET for about 2 years, interrupted once by a failed college semester. I did not have friends during my mandatory education. No part of my soul wanted to run from these things. It was my brain that decided that what is stressful will be avoided. With the blogpost out of the way... Lets talk about anything we can put in our bodies or minds to alleviate social anxiety, and to function well in social situations. It doesn't have to be a drug. We can talk about anything helpful: supplements, mindset changes, breathing, pure willpower, exercise, or all the way up to narcotics. I have no experience here, but a good substance might have some of the following aspects: - Not obscenely unheathy, either for mind or body - Low tolerance buildup -- can be taken 5 days a week and remain viable - Easy to procure -- I'm fine with illicit, but legal is a plus - Unimpaired cognitive function -- long term, and while on it And most importantly: - Very effective I value your personal experience as much as links to papers. Thanks lains. I believe we can all have a life worth living.

Porn and gaming have become my drug of choice when dealing with social anxiety and while it helps with the stress and fear, it also makes me more antisocial. I start comparing myself to people I see onscreen and obsessing over how imperfect and boring I am or how dull my life is. I'm trying to get out every day, little by little, starting with low traffic areas so I'm not stuck inside all day but I still wear a covid mask because I'm so nervous and embarrassed and about how I look. The upside is that it does boost my confidence for some reason.

>>12692 https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/13/things-that-sometimes-work-if-you-have-anxiety/ https://www.orenjaysofer.com/blog/2018/anxiety https://www.psycom.net/emdr-therapy-anxiety-panic-ptsd-trauma https://troof.blog/posts/nootropics/ https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/06/amy_schumer_offers_you_a_look.html These are good starting points but i need to know why you're anxious in the first place. You went from having decent success to having nothing because stress got to you, so presumably you couldnt handle it, it overwhelmed you, and now it's hard for you to get back on your feet. Drugs themselves won't do much, nootropics barely do anything. I think the last link I posted will be insightful. No matter how much reading you do or effective drugs, it'll all be a "defense against change" eventually you have to do the thing. Might seem obvious but the post puts it in a way that sticks with you

>>12692 >It doesn't have to be a drug. Try Zazen meditation. Also, Here is archive with all kinds of meditations: https://archive.is/lQE5j >but a good substance might have some of the following aspects: >... I'm sorry to kill your hopes, but I'm not aware of any substance that's very effective but doesn't buildup tolerance fast. The best drugs for anxiety are benzos but they are unhealthy long-term and they certainly buildup tolerance and cause physical addiction (you can even die if you have used benzos at higher doze and you suddenly stop taking them). I have read about the benzo and I recommend that you avoid Xanax/alprazolam and Valium/diazepam. The reason for avoiding Xanax is that it can cause the worst kind of benzo addiction according to many (ex-)users. The bad thing about Valium is that it can accumulate in your body because it's fat-soluble and it has long biological elimination half-life. For more relevant post, see the benzo threads: >>12278 && >>10492 As for personal stories, I use Valium every now and then and it works but I become more depressed after stopping using it, if I have used it for more than 1-2 days (my daily dosage is max. 5mg x 2). Also a tip: do not go and see a doctor (a GP or psychiatrist) and ask for benzos only. You should ask if you could get something for your anxiety and then ask for also benzos. I would recommend that you don't start using SSRIs or SNRIs, though. I would ask your doc if you could get benzos and Remeron/mirtazapine instead (alternatively, you can just don't take the anti-depressant pills). If you ask only for benzos, some doctors think that you are just going to take them and drink alcohol. The reason for avoiding SSRIs and SNRIs are (mainly) the side-effects (also, they can actually cause agitation, restlessness and worsen anxiety. depending on how your body reacts to them). Note that mirtazapine is also sedating drug (it also has anti-histaminic effects). >Unimpaired cognitive function Avoid neuroleptics (for example: Seroquel). Seroquel is a "fashionable" drug at the moment and a lot of doctors prescribe it for variety of reasons (even just anxiety/GAD or other conditions that don't have symptoms of psychosis).

>>12692 >Lets talk about anything we can put in our bodies or minds to alleviate social anxiety, and to function well in social situations. Check out my thread on carnivory on /r/.

>>12700 Also: Certain beta-blockers (namely propranolol) can be used for panic attacks and performance anxiety (in addition to treating cardiovascular diseases and high blood pressure). You could also try those. They are probably better option than most other drugs, if they help you personally. For me, propranolol just caused some mild physical fatigue at first when I started using it (but it's has been years since I used it). Another drug that I forgot to mention is buspirone. But I don't have any experience with it. Also, another thing that come up in my mind is nicotine. I wonder if it could help because smokers say that it helps with anxiety (but it can be just their addiction, though). But you could try nicotine replacement products like chewing gum that contain nicotine.

>>12698 It's great that you're putting in effort in order to become more comfortable outside, and that you're seeing improvements with your confidence. This is off topic, but a huge cause of my agoraphobic lifestyle (I'm not agoraphobic but I live like it) is that there isn't really anywhere that I can walk. I live in US suburbs, where you can't just go out and walk somewhere. I wish I lived where there was even the concept of low traffic areas. There's no traffic here, its just dead, nothing but cars and strip malls. So be sure to count that blessing, is all. And I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble putting down those digital vices -- I'm more or less in the same boat. I've found that getting back into novels has helped me. Best wishes >>12699 >i need to know why you're anxious in the first place I don't know if there's a why or not. I can mention low self esteem and abusrd fantasies of social derision among others things, but its hard to say if they are causes or effects. They're created by anxiety as much as they create anxiety. The literal why is that I had a bad upbringing, I'm not neurotypical, and both of my parents have anxiety. Low self esteem is probably the closest to a real why, regardless, so recently I decided to stop saying unkind things to myself. I appreciate the links, anon. Reading through them gives me a lot of hope.

>>12698 Just go outside without a mask, or take it off and sit down at a park or something. I understand somewhat how you feel but realistically no one gives a fuarrrk about you, they have their own lives to deal with and anyone that could obsess over someone else's faults is a low value person in all fields (so basically worse than you). It's good that you are trying to go outside, don't worry about relationships too much either as most people are plebian tier and friendship is overrated.

>>12692 I'm not very social myself, but for the most part I think I'm just awkwatd with small talk/casual stuff. I'm almost certain that it won't help you much, but I think that unironically the most important thing is your desire and will to overcome this situation. Until a few years ago or so, while there was something that I really wanted to achieve I truly felt like I could do anything, but as soon as I lost that determination everything just crumbled apart. My one piece of advice is that you try to figure out what your passion is and just chase it to no end. Once you know where you want to be in life, you will be able to find your way towards it, and even obstacles that seemed almost impossible to climb past will suddenly seem a lot more beatable.

I'm really afraid of schoolwork, new tasks, and focusing on intellectually challenging things, and I think I'm doing maybe 20% better after going for a bike ride every day (which I enjoy), breaking tasks into REALLY small parts, and trying to live in the moment, which a therapist has I think helped encourage me to take more seriously. Still not super accomplished, and I just get up and pace a lot when I have homework to do, so your milage may vary. >>12709 I was constantly reading novels in highschool and I coped with stress and even isolation really well compared to now. Need to pick it up myself. >>12701 The concerning thing here is that I know of no historical geniuses who ate tons of meat. I've heard Confucius liked raw meat I think as a treat, and that the 1600s English believed eating beef was incredibly good, which I have not further investigated. It seems concerning that despite having the resources, no long lived historical elite ate meat as most of their diet. I think mongols and inuits are the only groups which come to mind, and neither really were known for smarts, though their bodies are healthy. My guess it it might make you strong or even happy, but it's not good mentally or we'd be seeing intellectual carnivores in historical elites. In today's world, having a diet which makes you happy but dumb just means you lose the happiness to a scam. I ought to look for diaries of some famous scholars and see if they mention diet. I also heard but did not confirm of ketosis causing loss of brain volume, and this brain damage causing happiness. I do know many rodents consume their brains in times of hibernation when they don't have food. In the mean time, I just try to eat how I imagine Newton, ect. ate, but I'm not role model.

What I have found incredibly helpful as a somewhat anxious person is getting really high on Ket in my room. Lights need to be either low or fully off. You want to create a nice atmosphere for yourself, so burn some incense, get naked if you want, find some nice music that you won't need to change constantly. Proceed to get really high and dance, draw, have visions, prophecies, etc. Ideally you want to continually get higher throughout the night until you are unable to move. The next day, provided you use the experience to 'detox' somewhat, will have you feeling very refreshed and ready to take on the world. Only good to do once a week imo

I just don't bother anymore. I barely leave my home, don't talk to many people or rarely ever post online either. Sometimes I feel like I'm dying of loneliness so I talk to my computer or plants that I keep. But when I go out there in the real world I don't feel motivated to interact. I don't feel connected to other people, like I'm not human or don't even exist. I've come to accept my fate and my position in life and find a way to just live with it. When I look back at things, I feel stupid for trying to break out of this and make friends or get a job. It's like buying stuff, we always think we want something we don't really need and we're never happy because once we get it we move on to something else but the real key is to let go of that desire and not let it dominate us.

Is it worth getting pure Modafinil? Anyone had experience with it?

>>13027 Stimulants in general eliminate all anxiety and make me far more sociable, but they're not really something you can take every day or rely on long-term. Modafinil is pretty safe though and easy to get, so give it a try.

im someone whos not great with social stuff. im probably autistic or something, at least thats what i think. while acid and mushrooms has definitely helped long term, i know its not enough to fix the underlying issue. id need therapy alongside it i reckon. i used to be close to mute or nonverbal, barely being able to say anything at all, now im somewhat able to respond to someone talking to me, but i still stutter a lot and cant really hold up a conversation. little steps tho i suppose. people here talk about other substances like ketamine and stuff. i dont mean to knock on them, i havent tried them so i cant say much, i just personally dont feel comfortable with stimulants and stuff right now. im sticking to psychedelics. >>12886 while you are technically right, unfortunately you cant really logic your way out of anxiety. thats the thing about it. no matter how hard you try to rationalize whats happening, your brain still will just freak the fuarrrk out sometimes. >>12911 i wish i could give you a hug dude

Wait a sec... antisocial people can get girlfriends? Man, I must be beyond antisocial then

>>13027 moda works well for social anxiety in my experience. Took it for soykafs and gigs before an interview once and I felt like I was superior to the interviewer (plus i got the job) I'm on dexedrine now for suspected adhd but it doesn't seem to work as well for social situations.

>>12692 Henlo Try phenibut It can be found at ghetto gas station in US. Look for something along lines of phenibut/phenygam it is same thing. GABA drug so potentially addictive. Withdrawal is no different than if you drink coffee every day then suddenly stop.

>>13425 With caffeine withdrawl you just get a headache, benzodiazapenes, alcohol and phenibut withdrawl is potentially life threatening. You cant just abruptly stop once your body adjusts to it, you have to taper dosage down following a hyperbolic curve to avoid withdrawl symptoms.

I've found that the real "solution" to social anxiety is to accept that there isn't one. I've stopped trying to solve the problem and now just get into social situations anticipating being anxious. Initially, it's just as miserable as you've made it out to be in your head. But it's true what people say about experience bringing confidence, and when you're more confident you come off less awkward. A lot of my anxiety stems from how other people perceive me so this does relieve some stress.

>>13486 this might work well for low level social anxiety, high level just turns your mind blank and into a stuttering mess. makes futher interraction with those people in the future more embarassing especially when they bring it up

I'd get a good book on/plan for exposure therapy then just find anything to work you up to deal with it, honestly nicotine has been super useful to get over me being totally drained after 5 minutes of socializing and shutting myself in for weeks. Only thing that works is exposure and approaching that properly so just find whatever makes that work for you. If you want some good work on exposure thomas smithyman is the best i've found https://www.youtube.com/@thomassmithymanphd/videos has a good book too. I've read like every big book on social anxiety this guy by far has the best grasp of it. That and the typical lifestyle stuff make a huge difference. Cut/limit sugar/alcohol, check if you have any food sensitivities (for me was dairy/eggs really annoying but I do way better w/o them), get a consistent sleep schedule. (I use a time scheduled bright blue light to wake up/regular circadian rhythm). Morning walk of any length will make a big difference/get some sun. Actual exercise will help a ton of course too. Try to eat more vegetables, I keep saurkraut and pickles and stuff in my fridge to make sure I get a base line, try bulk cooking easy stuff w/ lots of vegetables like chili/curry so you have healthy stuff on hand. Lots of memes with gut biome stuff/vegetables and it's impact on anxiety, best way to improve that is just eating a variety of vegetables every day. Make sure you are getting 30 mins-1hr of sun walking is the best for that if not make sure you are taking vitamin d. The way actual anxiety meds work is just dulling the parts of you that you need to deal with, so they make the anxiety harder to fix since you aren't actually able to deal with the root stuff. I'm pretty against those and honestly when I tried them they put me in the worst state in the worst period of my life i've had they really mess you up. This lady has some good stuff on health/body stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEbtf7uS6P8 good stuff on sleep (One interesting point is sleep deprivation makes you want to socialize less and people want to socialize with you less, you come off as sick and people will rate the same person w/ sleep deprivation much lower for being someone they want to socialize with.) One fairly specific thing i got from her was using hot baths for heat therapy. Take a really hot bath till your body temp gets to like 101.3 (measure carefully you can overheat yourself pretty easily.) and you'll be super relaxed for a couple days and it has pretty long term positive effects, basically home sauna. Also shown to reduce autism symptoms https://www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/sauna#depression Ultimately all of this stuff is just to make exposure easier though, that's ultimately what needs to happen but this does make it 100x easier but I wouldn't delay exposure till you have it all in order. My biggest issue with social anxiety was butting off working on it intentionally for so long just wasted so many years. >>13504 You have to approach it properly and build up, there are lots of techniques for really extreme cases that work for slow build ups. A big thing is also how you are approaching it, what you are expecting out of it, and how you process it afterwords exposure stuff isn't literally just going out and trying stuff. That might work for some people but like you said it can backfire, but that's why they have so many different approaching and techniques so people can figure out how to work up to it in a way that doesn't occur.

>>13479 Maybe i just never took it long enough but that hasn’t been my experience. As an update stay away from f-phenibut it gets (awrongspeakword) sometimes as a stronger version of phenibut.

>>12702 >Also, another thing that come up in my mind is nicotine. I wonder if it could help because smokers say that it helps with anxiety (but it can be just their addiction, though). But you could try nicotine replacement products like chewing gum that contain nicotine. >>13505 >honestly nicotine has been super useful to get over me being totally drained after 5 minutes of socializing and shutting myself in for weeks. I do nicotine pouches and they (seem to) help tremendously with my adhd and anxiety. could be psychosomatic but either way it's working. that said, it's pretty addicting so don't start unless you're ok with never stopping

>>13506 phenibut is hit or miss, it helps a bit but i feel its very taxing on the body (kidneys, joints, stomach) and the withdrawals are horrible. overall not worth it if you have other options >>12692 whats most effective for me and im going to go in the exact order: 1. benzos 2. nofap (idk why it just works for me) 3. cutting out or severely reducing caffeine (maybe some green tea here and there) 4. phenibut 5. meditation 6. cold showers?