psychedelic veganism

why do people go vegan or vegetarian after taking psychs? like, not personal feelings, the actual reason, does it F with someones soul? karma? just plain secular logic/ethics?

While Im sure that may happen for some it hardly sounds universal. You even are first person ive seen even claim this. It probably occurs just from sympathizing with the animals more or being more aware it's an animal and just starting to think that feels weird. So purely emotional in most cases most likely.

>>12460 Not really, I'm a carbivore after lots and lots of psychs.

>>12460 Going vegan after taking LSD is literally what happened to me. Pet theory is that psychedelics increase empathy, and once you empathize with animals it gets harder and harder to justify murdering them just to satisfy your taste buds. And nowadays it's easier than ever to adopt a healthy vegan diet, so there's no excuse to not go vegan.

I'm an omnivore, and i justify meat eating with the fact that it is the most natural thing on Earth, that heterotrophic life forms use the organic substances of other life forms to build their bodies and fuel their actions. The problem with that is, we don't live in hunting-gathering societies, there are actually hundreds of billions of animals are suffering in undescribeable horror, and we call this food industry. The lowest point was late 20th century imo, life conditions of animals in the industry became somewhat better as far as i know, at least in civilized countries., but it's still horrible, much worse than a human prison. There are meat and eggs called "free range" if i remember the english term for it correctly. Free range animals live like traditional farm animals before the industrial revolution, so grassing on a large area, without physical coercion. Most of these farmers also believe in the bio thing, that is not using steroids, not using antibiotics if not super necessary, not using superfood additives or whatever they are, and not using pesticides on the plants that the animals eat. Of course this makes the meat a lot more expensive. If i can allow myself, i still buy these free range bio meats and eggs. I've cut milk and diary out of my diet due to hormonal imbalance effects, which are present without using any exogenic hormones on the cows. I have to admit that the whole vegan thing repulse me. Not because they don't eat animal products. It repulses me because most of the products i've seen to be eaten by vegans, are highly processed, overpriced, taste like soykaf, and carry this whole globohomo vibe with their advertisements. I actually like the vegan foods cooked from market-bought unprocessed plants by one of my relatives who is vegan, but really intelligent. (i don't know if this is just a prejudice by me based on the loudest people, but most vegans don't seem very intelligent, actually they seem to follow trends and fashion mindlessly). To answer the question, psychs often produce mystical experiences similar to meditating religious people. A lot of these have a tradition of being at least vegetarian, because of respecting the soul of the animal. This sounds nice, but several religious sources state that all life forms have soul (that includes plants and fungi, and they didn't know about bacteria and archea when they wrote those texts, so i don't know if they would have involved them too and consider eg. MRSA to have a soul). Empathy is another important factor, they just can't stand killing of animals. Empathy is usually highly raised during and after psychedelic experiences. I always had this great idea, that we should demolish the meat industry, and make it so everybody who wants to eat meat, have to kill the animal from which the meat will come from. Pussies who are weak minded, wouldn't eat meat because they would be too much of a two-faced pussy to kill an animal with their hands and see it with their own eyes, but they are totally okay with it if it happens in industrial complexes far from them. I would be able to hunt and kill animals, but i would only do in an amount that is absolutely necessary for me, and would never kill animals for fun (it wouldn't be fun at all actually) or money.

>>12768 >nowadays it's easier than ever to adopt a healthy vegan diet Vegan food is just industrial waste with flashy marketing and higher profit margins. You might want to ease up on the corporate propaganda before the brain damage is irreversible.

>>12770 I didn't realize legumes, nuts, fruits, and vegetables constituted "industrial waste with flashy marketing and higher profit margins."

>>12769 >make it so everybody who wants to eat meat, have to kill the animal from which the meat will come from >yet in the first paragraph mentions how he buys "free-range" meat You are literally the "two-faced pussy" that you described.

>>12771 I am pretty sure they're talking about stuff like "Beyond Beef" and other such foods

>>12460 I still eat meat but way less. It's the empathy plus expanded sense of self plus intense philosophizing. It sounds ridiculous saying you can't draw a fundamental distinction between yourself and a chicken, but while you are tripping that's maybe not so easy, depending on how you react to it. If the distinction is impossible, and you behave this way towards other animals, how can genuine goodwill and trust exist at all, even in how you regard yourself and behave within your own mind? Any violence seems internalized as corruption and disloyalty and self harm.

>>12773 most of that stuff is made out of that. I dont get why its so popular to hate on these vegan stuff. is the marketing dumb? yeah. but its just flashier names for stuff that has already existed forever. its not some new chemical concoction. you're falling for the marketing

>>12772 1. Keeping animals are regulated by the city, in my city no farm animals can be kept at all. I would have to move to a much smaller city or outskirts, which i plan to do. 2. Hunting is highly regulated too, you have to go through lots of tests and pay a soykafton of money, just to be able to keep a hunting rifle. Then you have to pay a soykafton of money for the corps that own the forests. There are people who got seriously punished for bringing home roadkill animals from a road running through a forest owned by such a company. Hunting is nothing else than a hobby sport of the superrich, at least here. 3. Actually you are somewhat right, i am a two-faced pussy at the moment, but i'm working hard on changing this. I'm planning to move to a self-sustaining self-built farm, when i made the money for it. Calling the majority of people two-faced pussies is just my experience with them, some of them go as far as attacking hunters for killing animals, then go into the supermarket and buy 10 kilos of meat, of which 2 kilos spoil and end up in the trash. It's really hard though here. EU makes everybody report their wells, after which they will have to pay taxes, making irrigation very hard for small farms, and only easy for big corps with high profits from industrialization techniques (huge amount of pesticides, GMO, overusing fertilizers and exhausting the ground, applying third world immigrant workers for pennies, having a financial state and size that allows them to use satellite controlled automatized vehicles and equipments including drones) Please don't misunderstand me, i'm not a primitivist beleiver, i'm not against modern industrial techniques. i'm only against two things: -Destroying small farms. Being able to produce cheaper products for the market is not an attack on small farms. Strict government regulations tailored to support big multi corps are, and that often regulatory bodies only enforce the law on the small and weak, and let the big fish do what they want (i could list at least a hundred cases in which severe nature harming is happening and nobody cares, because the harming entity is a huge corp with political connections). -Stop harming the nature, stop injecting poisons into the food-chain and stop industrialized animal cruelty. Nature has it's own ways of cruelty, being bit by a black mamba is extreme torture, i've heard, some animals are slowly dissolved alive in stomach acid of other animals, etc. But the industry of humans has all means to stop the torture. About the poisons in the food chain: Do any of us realize, that the current and at least the next few generations of children are and will be, unavoidably ill, defective, both on a genetic level and a development level? Adding mutagens, teratogens, carcinogens and other toxic soykaf to the food chain is not only making currently living beings sick, and not only making the environment less comfortable to the future generations. It actually is an evolutionary catastrophe of the human gene pool.

>>12773 fake meat is totally optional to a vegan diet. Personally, the only fake meat I eat is soy chorizo and seitan (and tofu, bu that doesn't really count as "fake meat").

>>12778 People will go off about "vegan propaganda" while not realizing they are wholesale stooges of animal agriculture propaganda. The relevant example here being the idea that vegan food is all "processed industrial waste," when in actuality the majority of a vegan diet comprises natural ingredients. Further, as you point out, even the processed vegan foods aren't that bad (especially compared to non-vegan processed foods). Pic related lists Beyond Burger ingredients; there really isn't anything notably bad here. And you know what's absent? All the carcinogenic hormones pumped into livestock that ultimately show up in "real" meat. [*also, why is lainchan telling me to make a "better post"? This is frustrating af trying to find what buzzword is triggering this*]

Honestly it's a human brain issue IMO. Even before we built a first house or domesticated our first animal hominids were already unusual with the rate at which our brain developed. It did so in a very short ammount of time because the advantage was so great. As a result our whole physiology is suffering the results of this fast development. For example, 1 in 300 people is schizophrenic and that's the same number for more traditional communities. It's so common in humans and is not precedented in other apes that scientists are trying to see if that gives some evolutionary advantage by allowing shamanic practices to occur and thus creating a protoreligion from ancestor worhisp and communing with the spirits through a schizo shaman seeing hallucinations. There's also a stoned ape theory of course. Another quick example would be that our birth is premature due to heads being too big so we give birth before a child can do pretty much anything. So what am I talking about pertaining to the question at hand? It's just another brain anomaly. It's rare among people that do psychodelics and they describe it as increased empathy. So maybe that's what it is. The experience changes their value system and they become this homo sympatheticus what only eats plants while horses and other herbivores do eat meat from time to time to replenish some nutrients and supplement the diet. Perhaps at some point food production would be possible just from some microbial or protist cultures and they will switch to that, because turns out plants are also alive and have some degree of awareness.

>>12782 Wtf are you trying to argue? That veganism is analogous to schizoism because...horses eat meat? Which is completely false? (See at least https://horserookie.com/do-horses-eat-meat/) Please try to make a better post next time.

>>12783 I didn't argue any of that, you just extrapolated it. As for horses and meat, see the pic from the article you posted. Horses are herbivores and consume plants to live, but they do occasionally consume meat for a variety of reasons. The same can be said about cats that consume some plants to vomit or get high (picture of jaguar on psychodelic vine not included, but have this https://youtu.be/OqGDv0KCJl8 ) My argument was that some people who weren't vegan before psychodelics by their own admission had their empathy increased much more that some other people that took it. This indicates they probably had a different neurobiology. I must clarify that I'm a neurobiologist and simultaneously have Bipolar disorder type 2. I also knew a Schizophrenic collegue at work who was a good guy, if not a little eccentric and deranged here and there. So I don't consider being neurodivergent an insult.

>>12460 Happened to me after taking 400 μg of LSD a few yeas ago. Amongst other things like seeing fractals, I had a massive ego death and it felt like my awarness was now "behind" and prior to everything else that I observed, exactly like pic related. I became disidentified with just about everything; everything was reduced to mere sensation. As a result, there was a complete flip in the way I oriented myself and I was far more aware of the initial emotional state of consiousness that gave rise to every action (note that 'karma' in a sense can simply translate to 'action'). I contemplated the matter of violence and killing people/animals and it was blatantly obvious such things come from a primitive, egoistic, and contracted state of mind; 'lower vibration' if you will, and an active hindrance to seeing reality clearly/having a pristine state of mind and living a virtuous life. Not so much a matter of right and wrong *per se*, but virtually, yeah. The whole visceral nature of this was gone the next morning but I haven't so much as swatted a fly ever since.

When you first develop awareness of your ego this makes you want to protect your ego so you try to be morally righteous and have 'good karma'. You don't want to be harmed so you don't want other creatures to be harmed. It's a childish illusion that goes away as you take more psychedelics. There is no escape from suffering, samsara, pain, or hell. Only cycles of pain and pleasure. Seasons and cycles.

>>12768 >And nowadays it's easier than ever to adopt a healthy vegan diet, so there's no excuse to not go vegan. I have no idea how to switch to a vegan diet or how to make sure I won't need to take a lot of supplements (Examples: how to get enough vitamin B12? how to get enough calcium?). I could take a multi-vitamin pill or B12 tablets but not a lot more. I think I personally couldn't switch to a 100% vegan diet but I could increase the amount of plants on my diet. >>12772 Even if you kill an animal, you don't need to be cruel to them. You should make sure the animals don't suffer while they live and that their death doesn't cause them needless suffering. >>12773 If I was a vegan, I would much rather eat real and healthy vegan food instead of consuming pale imitations of meat. I think meat replacements set the wrong expectations, "why it doesn't taste like meat?" instead of actually enjoying plant foods.

Most people I know who've taken psychedelics are not vegans. I know 3 vegans and they all were vegans before trying psychedelics. But now that I think of it, every vegan I know did eventually try psychedelics. I wonder if people who are attracted to veganism are attracted to psychedelics instead of the reverse. Probably not.

>why do people go vegan or vegetarian after taking psychs? Probably the same reason people go vegan or vegetarian normally. I don't know a single person who did this out of like twenty people I know that have taken LSD more than once, btw.