Tobacco/nicotine

are lainons addicted to nicotine? how to you use it and how much per day? when did you start? I smoked cigarettes 5 years and now I'm on snus

Dark green american spirits for me. Of course they're not """safer""" but they're tasty. Been smoking since summer 2019, about a quarter pack a day.

not addicted currently but have used every form of tobacco in existence a lot except for dip and chew both of which i never even tried once. but ive had snus, snuff, rape, cigar, pipe, cig and nic vape plenty. these days I only smoke cigar occasionally. started using tobacco 14 years ago.

I quited smoking cigarets and vape but after 2 month i started smoking hookah, so, i think it's addiction. BTW, hookah need more time to prepare, smoking and reapeat, so it doesn't bother me.

Was gonna put this in nootropics but I can't find it. Anyway, so I bought these 2mg nicotine gum, but I now realise I don't actually know what I should use them for, I have no particular interests. Anyone know some keystone habits I can use nicotine to speed up? It's the stuff meant for getting off cigarettes.

>>12289 I started smoking first year of uni, almost five years ago. Puffing a cigarette is a comfort for me. I tried quitting multiple times but the first thing that happens gets me a cigarette in my lips. I started leaving alone and pay for my own soykaf two years ago, i recently bought a vape cause it's cheaper here in Greece, 11 euros for 40ml get me through a month or so. I used to do a tobacco pouch in three days, i rolled cigarettes. a tobacco pouch of 30g is around 7.50 euros here, I fuarrrking hate vaping, i crave cigarettes and i never will stop liking them. But in order to save money i have to smoke vape. Good thing is i smoke less. Cause like i said i don't like it much

Smoking from almost 20 years now. Pipe smoking. I started smoking pipe before smoking tobacco (smoked herbs).

i used to smoke dokha now i just smoke normal pipe tobacco currently macbaren dark twist

Been smoking 20 a day for ~15 years. Want to quit but keep failing.

>>12355 >I started smoking pipe before smoking tobacco what? I don't understand. you smoke something other than tobacco out of a PIPE?

I just discovered snus a few months ago and it is a fantastic nootropic. I've also found that it is not really addictive at all compared to cigarettes, which is nice >>12343 >Anyone know some keystone habits I can use nicotine to speed up? reading, writing, and gambling

I've don snus fir 20y or so but got diagnosed with mouth cancer last year so I quit. Needless to say I would not recommend

i started with no nic vapes after trying nic vapes at parties bc i wanted to be able to do party tricks. then someone let me have their old rig. now i buy a new lost mary disposable every 2-4 week s depending on how stressful. :)

>>12819 NtL But I think I will pick up crypto gambling and writing

>>12819 You can get nicotine pouches without tobacco if you want all the benefits without the harmful soykaf

I just ordered some nicotine pouches to check the nootropic effects. I'll mainly use them to help with coding and philosophy

>>12929 >>12930 Why not just get nicotine patches or nicotine gum?

>>12933 Nothing wrong with that either. in my country the patches are 3x the price compared to pouches and I can't stand gum How long do I have to wait before I can post without getting the flood soykaf? Applesoy please at least give me a fuarrrking timer or something

>>12929 i think if my source of nicotine didn't taste like complete soykaf i would become dependent on it. that makes snus a winner in my eyes

I've been smoking on and off regular cigs for 15 years. Since covid I've tried to vape. Vape does feel indeed better, easier and lighter. SInce the smoke is not heavy poisoned with all smolls. But still.... In the end all this stuff messed up how I feel... I felt lazy after vape, didn't wanted to get out of the bed all day long vaping. So I decided to drop vaping, since when you have it around you have no self control. And nicotine messes up your nmda, nicotine receptors, it desentesize receptors to your natural acetylcholine in body. which alters focus, memory, blood pressure. Is tobacco worth it?

>>13028 Worth it? I mean it's worth quitting, I can't say I'd recommend any tobacco products if it's just nicotine you're after. It's the same vice + a chance of developing some horrid cancer or other ailment that will most likely ruin your life.

Started smoking in the military. Never smoked or used any nicotine products beforehand. Started with bumming a few off of a buddy here and there but turned into me buying my own packs soon enough. Now I smoke anywhere from a quarter to a half a pack a day depending on what's going on that day. Lucky strikes if curious.

Alright I've tried nicotine twice now. Basically for me this drug doesn't really work well. I experience no elevation in mood or feelings of well being. It makes me very slightly nauseous and pretty dizzy. The only good thing is that it counteracts sleepiness and lets me do my work even if I feel tired before using it. The only times I can see myself using this garbage is if I have to get soykaf done in the evening because the half life for me at least is way less than caffeine so I can also get sleep after. Pretty disappointed and I'm going to keep consuming caffeine daily instead. It might be that if I used this daily I would get rid of the negative side effects but the positives are so bad that it's not worth getting addicted. I did read also that using nicotine halves the time of caffeine in the body so if I've taken too much then I can get rid of the excess but I can't really see myself benefiting from this in the future. For the reference I used 4mg pouches under upper lip if anyone cares.

used nicotine pouches, cigs, currently on vape, started a year ago

>>13224 >started a year ago how old are you, why did you start?

I wish I could come home to a woman with a pipe going and filling the apartment with that nice warm smoke. I remember hugging woman who smoked and it is a great thing and I crave that. Any ways got two cans of tobacco and it was 72 dollars I really need to switch back to smoking or just gum.

>>12289 1 pouch is usually enough for me although the taste can be quite off-putting.

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of the physical sensations of nicotine withdrawal/hunger are very similar to the sensation of the (short) nicotine high? A slight buzz/drilling sensation in the head, mostly near the front of the skull, is how I would describe it. The hunger pangs are persistent for a longer amount of time and for whatever reason more of an itch, while the high is short lasting and relaxing. But if you focus on it, in my experience, they are very similar sensations. Anyone else have this experience?

>>13379 I know exactly what you mean by the hunger drill that feels kinda good on your head but I think the nicotine one is still a bit different from it

>>13392 thanks for care lain, it already was bad (drinking weed and suicidal gf made a situation in which I've had to change school), but its getting better haven't drunk hard alcohol and smoked for half a year

>>13393 No worries, we all have it tough in this world. I wish you best of luck in your complicated situation, when things seem dark remember that I at least have faith that you will prevail.

Started vaping in 2018 since I heard it could help with attention/focus (I have ADHD which I am not on any medication for). I noticed an effect early on where I seemed to have an easier time operating under pressure and controlling my mood that dropped off at least some, but I've definitely seen lasting improvement in my ability to stay focused. I get the brain scratches after like, 90 minutes at most now. And laws in my country keep the amount of nicotine that can be put in juice pretty low.

>>12360 When I was young I made up a pipe with bamboos and used to smoke green tea (it's quite good to be honest). Then started tobacco later. I sometimes smoke green tea again for the memories. >>13373 tfw no pipe gf. I try to convert my GFs to pipe smoking. Some of them enjoy. My pipe herd :)

>>13392 i doubt that. So many people say that in their 30s hangovers are so bad they stopped drinking in high quality at all, because when they were young they felt totally fine next day but now they suffer few days on same dose. Soi think it works the same with other drugs, like DXM which may be potentially cardiotoxic or cocaine so its much worse to do those when you are old and your organism is weaker and not gettting regenerated as well... So i would say - have fun when you are young, do drugs, not obvious you will be able to do it after you are 30 or if they even will be fun anymore

I used pipe tobacco with a dry herb vaporizer for over a year. I actually feel good if I use it once or twice a day but it's just so hard to control the urges that I'm quitting cold turkey and I'm using small doses of magic shrooms to help me with that. I'm sad as fuarrrk to be honest. Problem nicotine is that it makes me feel anxious or numb. a couple of days without vaporizing it and music feels nice again.

20-30 of mevius daily, recently started to roll cigarettes myself, using redmont tobacco and mascotte tubes was smoking pipe earlier, but accidentally broke it when was clearing it meh

>>13521 >was smoking pipe earlier, but accidentally broke it when was clearing it I know that feel. That's why it's important to have at least 2 or 3. It's nice having multiple pipes you can use depending on the mood and the type of tobacco.

>>13489 As usual this is a half-truth and crass oversimplification. Things like that are about your margin of error decreasing and old damage coming to haunt you. At 30 you're no longer young but if you feel old it's squarely on you. Take care of your body when you're young and you'll be able to enjoy yourself with relatively few changes later on. Don't use yourself up and you won't feel used up.

>>13529 yeah, plebs. at 29, i feel exactly as young as i did at 20. the only difference is that i say a bit less really stupid, embarrassing stuff. alcohol doesn't feel worse, either. hell, barely look different- i get carded no matter where i go with an 18 age limit.

>>12289 Been using GABA and nicotine gum and makes me bee less soykafty. Also been taking DHEA.

averaging at a pack a day, cigs

Does nicotine cause stress in high quantities? I've been putting these things under my lip for 2 years now after getting addicted, gradually moved up to high strength (10 to 12mg) and noticed the high strength ones fuarrrk me up mentally everytime I do them, especially if I start chaining or even chain the low strength ones I get a rush of hyperactive thoughts that jump around and change topics, the best I can describe it is static/fuzz/noise (not literal) in my head, my mind isn't calm at all contrary to what nicotine is supposed to do, my mind becomes very distracting. My tolerance is high as fuarrrk now, I stopped getting any pleasure from nic and consume it out of habit and to function. However once it wears off, my mind stabilises and becomes tranquil for an hour or two and I get cravings again and the cycle repeats >TL;DR stopped feeling the benefits of nicotine and induce stress/mental noise instead

>>14364 All stimulants can increase anxiety, only possible exception is if you have ADHD then sometimes it is calming

>>14367 I have ADHD, it was calming initially but now it fuarrrks me up

>>14370 Watch your dose. Higher doses are going to take you for a very unpleasant trip, but if you take only what you need you'll start feeling the benefits of it again. You can more or less gauge your tolerance from your consumption habits, so don't go beyond your comfort zone and don't take nicotine as an immediate way to cope. Regulate your intake and you'll start enjoying it again.

>>14371 You're 100% right, I will go back to low-strength from now on.

>>12343 nic gums aint soykaf, it's nowhere near a cigarette in the morning to really wake up

>>12289 I smoke ciggies, started around 2 years ago? At first it was once or twice a week or sometimes less, maybe two ciggies a month and soykaf like that. Nowadays with how things are well, it really depends on the day but I'm trying to not go over one pack a week/2weeks. to be honest not thinking of quitting as of now just trying to control the addiction and it is helping in these rough times.

>>14367 I thought about this too, but there are so many people who claim cigs help them calm down, it can't be they all have ADHD. I don't think I have ADHD either, but I can physically feel coming down when I smoke.

>>14458 Think about how quickly nicotine acts, and how often another fix is needed throughout the day. It's a stimulant, so once started, the habit needs to be constantly reinforced, causing baseline mood stability to falter without, and bringing about peace when used. I think it has everything to do with the addiction, instead of the mechanism of action, necessarily.

Tobacco is the most difficult drug to find information of online. For instance, I want to know if smoking effects in utero baby. Not that it effects me, I can't get pregnant. If I look it up, it says yes. But if I look it up 'does second hand smoke cause cancer' or something it will also say yes. >>14567 Don't talk about 'mechanism of action' as if you have any knowledge of this topic. You obviously don't. Calling nicotine a 'stimulant' is kindof retarded. It does not have the same mechanism of action as any other stimulant.

>>14589 It is a stimulant. Any research through Google, DuckDuckGo, any search engine of your choice, really, will tell you the same. Humble yourself, and quit acting like you've smoked for any length of time. Some of us have decades on you.

>>14636 I was under the impression that it was the kind of thing that has both stimulating and relaxing properties. A lot of different plants are like that.

nicotine is for retarded gymbros and stacies

>>14637 Yes, and the effects are supposedly dose dependent, but I've come to believe that it's both stimulating and relaxing at every dose. The best explanation I've heard is that while nicotine stimulates the brain, making it a stimulant for cognitive tasks, it relaxes the muscles, making it a relaxant for physical tasks. In this way it can be both stimulating and relaxing.

>>14642 nothing wrong with being a retarded gym bro and fuarrrking stacies. Pros: >get to be in shape >get with women who are also in shape >share a cigarette with a half naked woman on a balcony at 3 am cons: >none

>>14654 My friend got into full-time bodybuilding after his first breakup 4 years ago here's how it turned out >no money >depression still persists >unhappy with his natural gains, switched to injecting roids >attempted to go back to uni >dropped out again >works as a gym wagie now earning just above minimum wage >hes abit introverted so he never approached any gym stacey nor have they approached him >finally struck luck on Bumble after numerous attempts >apart from eating out with her once a week he has no other hobbies or projects The point from my post is to go gym as a side hobby and not your main one. The retarded gym bros fuarrrking stacies aren't losers that browse imageboards all day and were already high up on the social ladder before they even the gym

I don't want to be a bummer and derail the thread, but I wanted to ask if lains who have vaped/smoked cigs for a while if you still get any enjoyment/pleasure out of doing it. When I tried my friend's vapes it felt like I was floating on clouds. I got my own dispo and even a couple days of one or two sessions daily and it's not hitting as hard. I don't want to be stuck with just wanting it to feel normal and honestly I think I'm looking for a reason to quit, because I feel the urge to do it but when I do it's not as good. Sorry for the blog I guess I'm looking for confirmation that I should quit before I get too deep into it.

>>14764 you should quit. t. used to smoke cigs. now i don't. lungs feel better.

>>14764 Don't ask why you shouldn't do something, as why you should do it in the first place. The only reason to smoke paper cigarettes is to conform to a social norm of what is considered cool according to corporate entertainment. Vapes at least add some entertaining chemicals on top of their addiction chemicals to make you start. Why anyone would willingly do any is beyond me. Why anyone would do so knowing it will kill them make me worried about mankind.

Has lainon tried Medusa-Filters? Can you recommend them? i mean for weed of course

>>14764 Quit pronto I finally did after 15 years of smoking tobacco in every way imaginable.

Nicotine seems to fuarrrk up my digestion bad if consumed < 2-3h since or before meal-time. I'm probably getting a colon-cancer from this garbage

I used to be addicted, I used to be very addicted. Big time chain smoker, every waking second of every day I was sucking up that smoke. Been clean for 3+ years now, I'd probably be dead by now if I hadn't been.

>>14364 >zyn This stuff impressed me. I'm not a smoker but I've tried a few cigs and enjoyed the nicotine buzz quite a bit. I tried a zyn pouch and within 10 minutes I was so ill I nearly vomited. I don't indulge in this sort of thing very often but I've taken near heroic doses of mushrooms without any nausea for the entire duration. I wonder why that is, zyn seems like it should be a fairly "clean" way to get nicotine. Is it just my lack of tolerance?

Should I get into nicotine for the brain boosting aspect Is it really always dangerous and there's no healthy way to take it in

>>14963 It’s not dangerous to chew pure nicotine or take it transdermally in the proper dosage.

>>14954 The nausea is a different kind of nausea, it's what happens when you have too much nicotine circulating. But you are right on the money, in my experience, nicotine pouches hit way harder in general and without much acclimatization to nicotine your body responds like you have taken too much. If you build up some tolerance with nicotine, you won't usually have that reaction. >>14963 The keyword is tolerance here also because the more you use nicotine, the less of an effect will it have. If you want to consistently make use of nicotine for brain boosting aspects, you need the diligence to space out you nicotine consumption and not up the dose. What happens to most users is that they begin taking it daily and then they play with the number of nicotine hits they take for the day. I for example forbid myself to indulge in it for the first half of the day. Also the other lainon is right, it's absolutely not dangerous, in fact some are arguing that nicotine has neuroprotective properties. Still, it does raise your heart rate so if you wanted to stay as healthy as possible you wouldn't be taking nicotine. On the other hand, the ills of smoking cigarettes are much, much larger.

I have only tried nicotine gum hoping it would help my memory and maybe give me a mild buzz but i felt nothing at lower doses gradually working up each time i tried and noticed no memory improvement and raising it a few times more only made me feel nausea and made me vomit. I dont plan on using it regularly just when I want to try to cram info into my head better or recall something specific. Maybe gum doesnt consistently release the nicotine properly?

>>14975 Wait I can't swallow any at all or just not swallow immediately after chewing? Well that's inconvenient. It's been a while so I'm not sure how I chewed it but it is possible I did that on accident. The nausea came on oddly quickly. Felt nothing else but that though. Well maybe I will have another go some time.

I stoped smoking cig someday i don't know why, yes is bad and i meet someone that die by cancer lung but i was still smoking time to time, i don't smoke weed so much so is not like i replace that suddenly I started to feel very disgusted and although sometimes I want to smoke because I feel sad but something stops me, it's strange >>13373 Better find a stoner girl, the smell is better

>>14981 There is enough nicotine in many nicotine juices to kill someone and nicotine can absorb even just through your skin so it's very dangerous to spill.

>>14985 I've been dabbling with ashwaganda and maca and foods that increase blood circulation so that I'm not overly dependent on caffeine. Food is harder to dose but I've had success with legally available herbs for that little alertness boost.

>>14963 Nicotine pouches are an option. Those are safe. Start with 4mg and if you don't want to get addicted take it only once per day and you wont have problems. The half life is pretty short so it's great for smaller bursts of concentration for a specific task

>>13056 ive also tried nic twice now, once vape and a cig and the effects are disappointingly mild. should i still try some gum as a last ditch effort to have fun or just stick to benzos? also would it be nice if i was combining benzos with nic?

I tried my first cigarette when I was 9 when I knicked one from my mum's packet. I started smoking regularly when I was 12 (back in the 90s when you could buy 20 for just a couple quid). I'm 40 now and in all that time I have only been without cigarettes for 11 months due to a severe chest infection that needed regular draining. I moved to rolling my own cigarettes when I was 16 in the year 2000 because even back then the price increase on tobacco in the UK was ridiculous. Today a 50g packet of rolling tobacco costs nearly £40. Meaning a kilogram costs around £800. So for £800 I go on holiday for a long weekend or a week in cheaper places whenever I need tobacco and buy it wherever I visit in Europe and bring back a kilogram of it. So not only do I get a nice holiday, I get a supply of tobacco that will last me most of the year.

>>16104 How do you store your tobacco so it doesn't dry out? I do much the same with pipe tobacco but it gets very crispy.

>>16105 Keep it in its original packet until I need it, stored in a tupperware container at the back of a cupboard that doesn't fluctuate in temperature much. The packs are sealed so they keep. It's only when I put 50g in my tin I carry about that it'll start to dry out, but that takes a while.

Nicotine seems to get my systolic blood pressure from ~130 to ~145 which is enough to deter me from it

>>16107 do you move around a lot? my blood pressure only gets higher if i don't do jack soykaf

>>16112 nah I go running for 1h every other day. Other than that I barely leave my house.

>>16122 A guy once told me that you have to exercise more than you'd think to keep it down and use nicotine without it blowing up back up. He cycled 3 times a week for few hours and said its never been high since and he is a heavy user of tobacco. Besides those numbers you said aren't that high.

>>16124 Good to know, thanks! I'll try running every day now for an hour with more intensity. Also it might just be that it spikes because I dont use it regularly but merely a pouch per day. At least with non regular caffeine users the occasional cup spikes blood pressure or so I've heard so I presume the same would happen eith nicotine. After one pouch I never feel like taking another. It's simply the opposite for addictive for me. Works great for short study sessions

>>16160 > I dont use it regularly mean to say "throughout the day"

I started smoking about 8 years ago, switched to rda vapes after a couple years and then switched to disposables last year out of laziness. I've found the disposables to be more addictive than even cigarettes, I can't go 8 hours without anxiety attacks from the withdrawal. It's horrible. I'm currently trying to taper down and switch to gum to save my lungs, I tried the pouches but didn't find them as satisfying as gum or vapes.

>>16165 Do disposables use nic salts instead of freebase nicotine in regular RDA/RTA vapes? If so, yes, it's HIGHLY addictive. The nic peaks like a real cig or even a bit more iirc (fast and hard). And you can vape almost everywhere all day long compared to real cigs. You become like a lab rat with an unlimited supply of cocaine lol. I smoked regular tabacco for years, started vaping (RTA freebase) + a bit less real tabacco, then switched to vape-only. I tried nic salts for a few months and found myself searching under my bed/desk to find any leftover bottles/pods like a fuarrrking crackhead.. couldn't control myself, vaped non-stop until my heart was pounding like crazy.. I would not recommend salts to anyone. That soykaf is like the crack version of nicotine. Stay away from it. (Or try it only if you know you can control yourself)

>>16167 What could be the reason for this? Euphoriant substances where both the salt and the freebase can be smoked are rare or at least are not among the most popular ones from which we gathered a large pool of experiences from the users. In the case of cocaine, the freebase (crack) is much more addictive, but the salt (cocaine powder) can't be vaporized and inhaled (notoriously the most addictive ROA aside from IV) so it's not a fair comparsion. In the case of meth, the salt (crystals) can be vaporized and inhaled, and it's fast hitting, super euphoric and super compulsive, (much more addictive than sniffing the same substance ofc), but we cannot make a comparsion because the freebase is too caustic to inhale. The only substance that comes to my mind at this moment, which is a powerful euphoriant and i think i've heard about people vaporizing ang inhaling both freebase and salt, is MDPV, but i never gathered enough stories about each, to compare the methods. Do you have a hypothesis about the more addictive nature of vaped salts of nicotine than vaped nicotine freebase. I thought about that freebases are mostly hydrophillic and salts are mostly lipophillic. Lipophillic substances are known to cross the BBB easier and cause a more steep concentration curve leading to stronger rush, higher potency, shorter duration, and more addictive nature. (eg. see morphine versus its esthers). But this doesn't have to do anything with it's form before its consumption, because once a substance is inside the blood stream, the blood pH and the pkA of the substance decides whether it exists as protonated/unprotonated. So there must be something after it's consumed and before it is completely in your blood, which is obviously the process of absorption. But the lungs are designed to absorb oxygen, which is totally and absolutely lipophillic, and hydrophobic, then how comes the more hydrophillic form of the substance gets absorbed better in the lungs? Do you know the mechanism behind this?

>>16170 I fuarrrking swapped it up: > I thought about that freebases are mostly hydrophillic and salts are mostly lipophillic. other way around obviously: freebases are lipophillic, salts are hydrophillic.

>>16167 yes, all the disposables I've tried use salt, they also contain higher levels of nicotine than I was using with my RDA setup, they're all 20mg/ml where I am. I was travelling and forgot to pack my vape so I figured I'd give one of the Elfbars a try, I wish I'd gotten cigarettes instead. This thing gave me a rush like nothing else I'd inhaled before. They're also very sweet and for sure spike my blood sugar, which I'm also worried about.

I still am, but I just moved to the UK for the semester and holy soykaf cigs are expensive. UK users how do you handle?

>>16173 Get a menthol non elfbar hahaha

>>16174 As I mentioned here; >>16104 ... duty free. If you're a foreigner coming into the UK for school, buy it in the duty free at the airport, or if its cheaper locally, but it where you live and bring it in with you. If you're travelling from outside the EU, there's a particular limit (first image) and if you're travelling from inside the EU, there's no actual limit (second image) but you need to be able to justify having as much as you're brought in (personal use and giving away as gifts, they don't want you selling it and cutting out HMRC).

>>16179 I should also add that since the UK is no longer in the EU, your limits are the first image regardless of whether you're flying in from the EU, or outside the EU. The second image is the limits for arriving in Northern Ireland which despite being a part of the UK, has a unique situation because of Brexit and the whole border issue. So flying into Belfast in Northern Ireland, or Dublin in the Republic of Ireland gives you the second image duty free limits.

>>16179 I've heard about buying duty free in other places, but unfortunately I'm poor and don't think I'll be able to fly out somewhere for a while (trying to get an under-the-table job...). I made the mistake not buying anything at duty free shops in the airport, I wrongly assumed UK smoking culture would be as strong or stronger from where I'm from in the US south. UK tobacco seems... different, too. The cigarettes don't feel as strong and seem to burn faster, and the vapes are essentially scams where I can't feel a buzz at all and they all die the next day. The only comparable tobacco to the US's is rolling (I got some Amber Leaf today) but even then those papers seem to burn quick.

Just received a huge order of nicotine pouches. I have smoked ~3 times before and never had much of an effect. I also tried sniff tobacco once and it gave a rush that lasted for a couple of minutes. This stuff is in a different league. At first a kind of uncomfortable "spicey" taste that doesn't mix nicely with my cold and sore throat. But the euphoria and alertness is unlike any nicotine product I've tried before. Similar to having drunk a lot of tea but without the anxiety. Don't wanna get addicted to this stuff but I can see this as an alternative to alcohol in social situations and to boost focus when I have some important work to do.

Only tried the 6mg "Velo Blueberry" so far. Most of them have 8mg and above. They'll propably blow my socks off. Will give some to family members who are chronic smokers.

I'm always jealous when I hear people saying how good it makes them feel. I'm on 20mg per pod and I don't notice anything at all

>>16839 Have decicded to not take any more purches today since I drained 1/4 of the velo tin yesterday. I don't know what it feels like to "crave" a substance - except sugar and I sure don't wanna know. I'll save that buzz for the special moments in life. I bought way to much of that soykaf. Will give some of the tins away to relatives who are heavy smokers.

From my experience yesterday I learned that alcohol mixes very nicely with nicotine pouches. You don't even feel the acidic taste. It's just pure euphoria. If you lie down it feels like you're flying

The blueberry taste perfectly complements the earhty puerh aromas

How many pouches do you guys use daily on average?

I used to use the mouth spray by nicorette. You basically spray it on the inside of your cheek or under your tongue and it works really fast, quicker than pouches IMO, maybe 1 minute at most. But it's really expensive and I got addicted to it and used up to 8mg at once for a while. Then I switched to pouches, starting at a quite high dose and slowly decreasing the strength. In the end I used one can of 0mg pouches and quit afterwards. The last pouch with nicotine was about 40 days ago I still get some cravings every now and then. But I really want this to be the last time I quit nicotine.

>>16998 I used these sprays for their actual purpose, quitting smoking. Quitting more than a decade of heavy tobacco smoking was like this for me: -Cold turkey: Literal malding, hitting the wall with knuckles and shouting, eating 5000 calories of food. Impossible for me. -Trying to taper by tapering number of cigarettes: Just never worked, i had no willpower to not smoke a cig if i have it on me. -Switching to nicorette spray and then cold turkeying: Actually workable: The withdrawals are an order of magnitude milder than going from smoking to zero. But still very hard. -Switching to nicorette spray, and then tapering that, until reaching a normalish amount, then switching to "nicotine resinate" sucking tablets, and tapering that to 0: Smooth ride, i think anybody could quit using this technique.

>>16998 >>17058 I ended up relapsing. I'll probably run out of nicotine today and will try to not buy any afterwards. Part of me wants to be able to quit despite still possessing nicotine, considering I will encounter situations where nicotine might be very cheap and easy to buy, but I will leave that problem to future me. Not wanting to spend money or waiting for a shipment to arrive should be enough to deter me for now.

Got a lip piercing and I can't smoke for 4-6 months. I tried nicotine pouches but it's the second time this soykaf got me throwing up but I guess it's my fault for starting with 20mg, I'm planning to buy patches and or spray tomorrow.

>most here and irl have a blast on 6mg pouches >can't get a kick out of 50s oh well. it wasn't meant to be.

just tried it for first time. 3mg mint. Interesting experience. I Think Ill never try it again.

>>17413 Also doesn't do soykaf for me anymore after doing it daily for a month. Stopped for a week, but no change in tolerance. Interestingly I don't have any cravings for the stuff. When I do it after putting it off for a week I'm just disappointed that it barely has any effect anymore. I was at 16mg last time I tried it. >>16875 Had a blast getting wasted on these things celebrating new years alone.

smoking for >10 years, I still like it but recently got nicotine stain on my index finger nail

Got some 6mg nic pouches recently. Definitely works out as a good alternative when I would like a cigar but either do not have one or can not have one.

My friend handed me a cigarette and I took a drag because thought it was a joint. He was double fisting them and I wasn't paying attention. Worst experience of my life. I like smoking pipe tobacco with my friends but there's something wrong about ciggies and inhaling into your lungs.

Anyone who uses chewing tobacco or similar oral tobacco Does it still leave smells or tastes in your mouth? Or are they more manageable?

I tried tobacco when I was a teenager >be 16 >walking around town during one of those hoakey suburban music festivals >hispanic chick even younger offers cigarette >start_puffin_boy.webm >girl is afraid of getting in trouble having a cigarette so she makes me hold it >keep puffing, having tunnel vision >entire body vibrating >still think it was kinda dumb when I turned 18 it was right around the time that vapes started to become popular. they were like alibaba pen vapes with the plastic tip that unscrews and you can fit like 1.5 ml of liquid in there. and those stick batteries with a button that lights up on the side. the wick was silica. the only other thing you could get was cigalikes and they were not good at all. all the companies sold bottles of juice in strengths like 6, 12, or 18 mg/ml of freebase nicotine. it stayed pretty standard like that until juul pods came out and did something completely different, and those were way too strong. I learned how to rebuild the wick and coil in the pen vape atomizers, then I would get rebuildable tank atomizers from websites like fasttech. you could get really soykafty liquid from a chinese company called hangsen. they had a hotdog flavor. I learned to make my own liquid by mixing propylene glycol and glycerin with nicotine freebase and flavors, which were also dissolved into PG. they started having power supplies that took 18650 batteries. I learned how to make all kinds of different crazy coils with different metals. at first it was kanthal, then someone found out that nickel has a different resistivity depending on how hot it gets, and they made devices that could use this to keep the temperature steady. nickel sucked to work with, so they made the devices more sensitive and they used titanium. but that would oxidize. finally the devices became sensitive enough to work with stainless steel. some power supplies didn't have any protective electronics inside. the whole thing was just a tube where the battery goes in and you press on the bottom to slide a piece of metal in and touch the battery. if the kid made an error when they made or installed their coil, the sliding piece would get stuck on the battery and it would vent and explode in their pants. I vaped for a little over 10 years. I would buy a liter of 100 mg/ml nicotine in PG and a bunch of flavors and I would just dilute it with glycerin and it would last me a fuarrrking long time and cost almost nothing. I never got into disposable vapes. kids would get disposable vapes with nicotine salt and just throw them on the sidewalk when they were done. my cousin is young and he told me that kids would go in the woods near the road and find dead vapes. they would rewire them and try to hit them to see if there was any juice left. like the futuristic version of a bum smoking butts from an ashtray. I recently decreased my nicotine level to 1 mg/ml, then I switched to nicotine toothpicks and generic nicorette style lozenges. I'm glad I did it. vaping probably didn't make me die sooner or anything but it's still pretty gross and I got sick of it. I would still smoke a cigarette at a party if I'm drunk enough, but I would never buy them for myself.

I got 15mg pouches from a vape shop. After that I ordered 29mg pouches and those are real good. fuarrrks up my gums and lips though

Ming Cigarettes Strawberry Cigarettes Grape Cigarettes The amount of flavored cigarettes that exists and how they're all equally gross is insane. How many of you chainsmoke?

>>17855 Menthol cigs, 2-3 in a row. Always. How do I stop?

I vape now, which is a healthier alternative to smoking tobacco (if you want to have this argument, try me), and I've got a tobacco pipe for the rare "treat." I smoke a bowl probably once every year or two. I tried a zyn pouch and it burnt like acid so I spit it out. Not sure how people use those things.

new user here, started smoking a few months ago very occasionally but i feel i'm getting hooked on the nicotine is it over?

>>12355 Ahoy fellow pipe smoker. I started because I live in a country where lots of people mix tobacco and weed, and while I generally don't do that personally, it is in the nature of a stoner to smoke with others. Generally I smoke a bowl or two out of my pipe every other day or so. I smoke a lot more when I'm high on something else, because on its own nicotine is very mediocre. The pipe in question is a nice wooden pipe I got in a head shop for a very decent price. I knew I would regret it if I didn't buy it. I was rather disheartened to learn that smoking straight weed from it is suboptimal, but putting a bit of hash in there with rolling tobacco is amazing. Cancer sticks are alright, but nothing to write home about. I fuarrrking hate snus personally. I hate how it burns my mouth, I hate the comeup, and I hate the nausea. Not for me, but the pure nicotine ones without tobacco have negligible health effects, which I must respect. Vaping is meh. I've only hit other people's soykaf so I don't know the full picture, but nothing hits quite like a wooden pipe in terms of nicotine.

started with cigs in college cuz was art student and it was the peak strategy for making new friends, mostly vape now with the occasional cigarette just for the ritual of it mostly or to have an excuse to walk outside of a function and take a breather. Its been 7-8 years now, i would like to quit eventually cause vaping is stupid its become like a respirator for me where I just hit it non stop so I dont even get a cool little buzz or get to have a "smoke break" anymore its just something i compulsively do. But im not gonna switch back to cigs because I do think even though both are bad for you that cigarettes are bad for you in a far far more immediate way, may try snus or something as I move away from vaping or maybe il just cold turkey it we shall see. Point is its no longer an enjoyable thing its like drinking water but less refreshing, im sure after I quit id still indulge in occasional cigarette. I know that sounds like a bad idea but im almost positive the cigarette high is not compelling enough for me to slowly draw me back in after i quit for awhile, because that wasnt even what happened when I first started. And ive been addicted to and quit much more enjoyable things that i will still once in a blue moon do, but none I ever did as compulsively as smoking which is why its certainly the hardest out of any addiction ive had for me to get over the initial hurdle of stopping.

>>18046 I recommend pipe tobacco for a nicotine source from switching off vaping. I started off vaping, and eventually was hitting it all day every day compulsively, trying to get a nice buzz like I used to. It was those really high nicotine disposables. So I was flooding my system with huge amounts of nicotine and not getting anything but more fiendish feelings. I took a break for a while, when I realized the vape was making me feel NOT GOOD. and then I picked up pipe tobacco because I still liked nicotine and I wanted it. Pipe tobacco is like tea where a vape is an energy drink. The rate at which you get nicotine is much lower. And it's more of a subtle intellectual lift, than a quick buzz hit. I typically would have to smoke for 30 minutes to an hour to get anything close to a buzz, and even then it's nice and light. So there's a built in limit that keeps your tolerance from getting too high, and keeps you from chiefing so much. Also, it's smelly, so I have to put a dedicated smoking sweatshirt on and go outside to smoke, as opposed to just ripping my vape wherever i am. I also decided to make a rule where I combo the pipe with another activity. I chose reading. So, whenever, i have a pipe, I read along with it. This has been great since I love to read books, and I also crave having a pipe often (it is nicotine after all) so I end up reading a lot more than I used to. You say you were an art student, if you still work on art, it could be really nice to have a pipe with it. It feels like a subtle lift that enhances whatever you are doing and immerses you in focus a little deeper. People on reddit or online forums will say they smoke pipe tobacco for the flavors and the ritualistic experience, and not for the nicotine. Those aspects are nice, but for me, it's still about the nicotine. It's just a method I've found with natural limits which keeps it enjoyable and moderated.

>>18066 That doesnt sound too bad an idea, I used to relegate certain substances to drawing/painting/printmaking but I stopped most of them, never thought about making nicotine that sort of thing. Im okay with any vice that keeps me doing what I love. I could see that being an extra good strat for actually making prints (my least favorite part), currently I rent a press and cant smoke in there but hoping to have my own space soon. I also have some loose tobacco brands I really miss from when I was rolling my own cigarettes to save money. I know pipe tobacco is different from rolling but I imagine I could find something with a similar flavor among the pipe tobaccos. Its gross but my all time favorite tobacco flavor is the ones that have this musty wet dog/wood beetle like flavor that causes my throat have this soothing itch. I remember bali shag rolling tobacco having this flavor strongly, i imagine thats not the taste most people look for in pipe tobacco but if you know any that does have that going for it itd be awesome.

20mg and some roiboos tea to end off the weak. Feels good

>>18066 this is how i feel about cigars. actually in some ways cigars i find much less "addictive" cause you can just get one at a time, where as a pipe your just sitting there with a giant container of tobacco when you smoke em and can puff all day long.

>>18040 hope you got off bro, I been using for three years, vapes then smokes then vapes, only because i found vape is more discreat. Ive been trying to get off for ages but its harder than i expected. ive not had a vape in abour four days now, Im just trying to push further and up time off it. the reason is I was in the car on a huge trip vaping the other day, all of a sudden my arms became tingly and numb, palms super sweaty, like that for fifteen minutes. thought i was about to have a heart attack while going 60mph and die bro. idek if it was the vape, but i cant take any chances.

I recently tried using nicotine pouches but found Zyn at just 3 mg hits me really hard and makes me sweat and have to lay down from feeling sort of nauseous and almost dizzy like anemic feeling. I took my temperature and found it raises my temperature 1ºF briefly then it drops below baseline by 2ºF. I found I can cut the pouches in half and just kind of use that but that winds up feeling too subtle to notice much even if I have the second half later. That burning sensation from it being so alkaline is a bother too since have to keep sipping water to make it not as bad.

I vaped fairly heavily for a couple years and quit cuz it just, wasn't doing much anymore other than give anxiety. Plus soykafs expensive, even mixing my own juice. and honestly quitting wasnt even that bad, past a couple weeks I felt fine minus cravings which were pretty regular for a few months.

I have been smoking for 2 years by now and vaping for a year as well. So many times I try to stop vaping but then I start smoking and once in a while when I feel like ciggerate smell is bad I buy another vape, and when it ends the cycle continues. Currently I finished my vape 2 days ago and bought a pack of ciggs without even thinking twice. I feel like ciggs are more expensive for me so I'll probably buy a vape soon. Don't know how or when I'll be cold turkey both but I don't want to continue this cycle. It has become a very bad habit for me

Anyone else been on that hape snuff grind? I been staying away from smoking completely for a while now, but now and again going for a sniff of hape. Bout to do a toot now. Cheers.

>>12289 Unfortunately. At least a handful of the cheapest local cigs a day since my early twenties.

>>12289 Not an addict. I smoke spirits once or twice a month. where I live smoking used to be pretty ubiquitous but people have moved in from mainly California and cigarettes are seen as low-class or white trash. Where is the space for casual smokers? It's a great time but it feels like you have addicts or haters. Why is it so hard to just have fun?

>>20130 i believe, we can do it bro i am >>20106 and im still tryin. try do what I do, let yourself go ok I can do it for a while but then cold turkey for n+1 days with n incrementing. doesnt matter if you break sooner but you gotta keep trying, wean off it. its like half cold turkey half not. i feel like theres no other way

>>14371 Wouldnt even call it trip, its just discomfort and feeling sick if ya smoke too much. ADHD people have it hard today. If ya dont wanna be on drugs every day you need a way of life that works with the traits. Like blue collar work. School/college/office job later just go against ur natural behaviour. Nicotine is a fairly ok way to cope.

Usually 10 cigs a day. Wanna stop nicotine but its hard.

Reached a level of smoking where I tear the filters off factory cigs bc the filters make the smoke more disgusting than the whole factory. Hear they put pig in'm for glue? But usually I roll my own with rice paper and freshly shredded leaf.

>>20148 fresh tobacco? i never thought about looking for some to buy (if its available)

>>20149 >buy it learn to grow bro

>>20150 b-but dude......my mom tho bro

Recently quit nicotine after using it from ages 13-19 and being a daily user for around the past two years. Started on the crazy 5% nic salt disposables that were the closest thing high school students knew to religion and experimented with various forms. Feel like I know most forms of nicotine intake systems like the back of my hand and have come to the conclusion that they're all very soykafty. I recently learned that the tobacco leaf used nowadays is at least an order of magnitude less strong than the original leaf used by natives and was wondering if any lainon had experience with using such plants. I've heard of grabba and nicotiana rustica and would like to test out my hypothesis that using that on the weekends is a hell of a lot better than an all day vaper/half pack a day smoker.

I used to smoke for 10 years and have been doing snus on and off for about 20 years. I never manage to stay away from the snus long term, a few months at best. Going fishing is the biggest trigger and main reason for most of the relapses. One new reason I found to quit nicotine is that it seems to inhibit neural plasticity in the brain.

>>20153 You have any links or information that you uses for coming to this conclusion, I've never seen anything myself about this that was convincing for me.

>>20145 Between that message and now, I bought another vape, but few days back I had this sudden urge to quit it, and I think I'll quit it after this vape ends, I have been mindlessly using the vape more than normal now just because I want to finish it. I'll update you all after it is empty.

I noticed my resting heart rate is faster since I started using nicotine pouches daily even though on average it is only 4.5mg a day at most and only 1.5mg at a time to spread it out and not feel sick from too much hitting me at once. Kind of difficult to sleep sometimes with my heart pounding. I constantly sip water or a drink with it or even sometimes eat with it in my mouth (chew opposite side) since the damn burning sensation. At least helps my memory recall.

trying to figure out how to get ahold of cherry kreteks. ive tried ciggiesworld but the import duties are absurdly high unless im retarded. i heard about ciggies.app but haven't looked at it yet

Anyone here smoked this before? its quite nice, the thing that i like is that the drier it stil holds up as a decent smoke. normally i just forget about baccy that goes too dry but this one is still almost as good when left to dry for awile

For the first time, I got 3 tins of 10, 14, 50mg pouches a month or so ago, didn't even feel 10 so i did the 14mg ones, once a day or so. After I ran out I started using 4 of them at a time like a hamster or something. Now only the 50mg ones are left, but they just make me feel nauseous and nothing else. Don't do them at all anymore. >>20200 Memory recall, huh? Haven't noticed any difference in heart rate, but blood vessels constrict which makes me a bit physically weaker, goes away with exercise though. >>20128 You open your lip and breathe in through your teeth to dry it out, burns less that way

>>20203 >Haven't noticed any difference in heart rate most people don't even if they have heart disease protip: excercise for 45 minutes- 2hrs like cycling and your blood vessels will always stay swole

>>20199 Guys my vape ended yesterday, and since then I have gone back to ciggs because I don't want to buy another...but I am really craving the sweet flavors of vape, and I don't know how long I can hold back the urges. I really want to quit, please let me know how I can quit both vape and ciggs. Any help I can get is appreciated.

>>20213 >please let me know how I can quit both vape and ciggs. You can't. It's impossible for you

I wish disposable vapes had more oomph to them and lasted longer.

>>20213 ay man, sorry to hear but you gotta try just try hold out a day,go back after, then off two days, back on, just make it larger until the urges are ez. ive been a bad boy sry to sey, last 2weeks theres sumthing new evryday. lots of hospital, death, dream about some1 who tramatized me. ya rough 2weeks, evry time soykaf happens i vape. first started for same thing, rough patch in life and only good thing was drink & vape with friends. now theyve forgot me and im still on this... lets end it man. cant stand this no more

>>20214 You might be right....but I want you to be wrong someday soon >>20220 Hey sorry to hear that, but I am sorry I couldn't control myself and got a Vape yesterday, I tried holding off till then but just fuarrrking couldn't and financially it was better decision because Ciggs would have easily costed me double the money for a month than a vape.... I have recently started my internship so I am earning my own money and living alone in a completely new city but those are just excuses which I know I could have prevented it but ya I am really sorry I have failed you all but more importantly I have failed myself.

My voices threaten my mom with dementia if I'm not always smoking. But I switched to a juul last year and that seems to work as well. If I become homeless I might go back to cigarettes bc they're cheaper but idk.

>>20221 If you can't quit try finding things to help keep your tolerances low. That could be pouches, drinking more caffeine, or keeping nicotine something you do strictly at work on certain days. Saying "Tuesday I'll hit my vape just while I'm at work" and sleeping or pushing through cravings past that can assist. >>20213 You can buy flavored beads to put in a cig filter. Basically the things in a camel crush or marlboro NXT. I'd just get used to those and from there slowly smoke less cigs each day/week. Try taking note of when you want a cig during the day and just not having one at certain times anymore. "I don't need a lunch cig I'm leaving work in 2 hours I'll just get a cup of coffee with sugar and tough it out until then"

i've been addicted to nicotine since 2008 and i've taken it in just about every form there is, except for dipping because i don't want to be a gross redneck spitting brown sludge everywhere. i was into vaping for a few years and it got me off smoking, but eventually i got sick of that because it seemed like it was even more addictive than cigarettes are, the ecig was practically glued to my hand at all times. i was on the snus for a while, i found a store in my area that sells general, and that was alright and helped a bit with nic cravings, but then more recently i discovered nasal snuff and that's kind of been my new thing as of late. i just take a pinch and sniff some up each nostril and get instant nic hit and a nice cooling menthol/eucalyptus flavor. my favorite brand is red bull, but because of tariffs and the pact act it's gotten exorbitantly expensive to order it to the states, but i did some research and learned that it's actually pretty simple to make your own so i've been making my own mentholated snuff with ground up ryo tobacco with a recipe i found online. here's the recipe for anyone interested: 100g tobacco flour 20mL water 10mL mineral oil 6g sodium carbonate 2g salt 8g menthol crystals (dissolve in mineral oil) 4mL eucalyptus oil

I started smoking cigs in 2011 when a friend and I decided to give it a try. Mum let my friend stay the night at my house and we went out for a walk in the countryside, at night. We found a quiet little bridge to smoke under. We smoked some Camel menthols with the little blue ball you squeeze to break it and let the menthol out. That was only time I really smoked menthol, but they never really stuck with me. I mainly liked to smoke Marlboros. I smoked until around 2023 when I moved entirely to nicotine pouches. I do about 10 to 15 of the 8mg pouches a day. I would like to quit eventually, but just hadn't got to it yet. I mainly quit smoking because I've had a history of spontaneous penumathorax, which really is like kicking dead whales down the beach. It actually reoccured 2 years after I had quit smoking. I was just out of high school the first time I had it.

>>20149 here's your key, "whole leaf".

>>20269 1 kg of gold virginia for 21 fuarrrking euros plus 7 euro shipping. wtf!? i am fking idiot not looking into this years ago. need to look up bongland laws cause im not sure if this will get pinched or not. not sure if im remembering this right but the eu/bongland laws when in whole leaf it's not subjected to tobacco tax but as soon as its processed i.e shredded it becomes a tobacco product that cannot be sold without paying the cut.

Has anyone tried buying whole leaf tobacco to make into pipe tobacco or snuff?

Just got a tin of Sasieni Balkan and have been really enjoying it. It is my first English blend. It is not as different from the aromatics that I have smoked thus far as I was expecting but a nice change none the less. It smells amazing, the smell of the tobacco reminds me of a stable but in the best possible way. My wife hates the smell of it though

Honestly, nicotine is just making my life overall worse, I think. Even though I avoid tobacco and vapes and mainly stick to snus, it really doesn't add much to my life. It doesn't even really make be feel more relaxed, more like slightly sedated. I took a break for about 6 weeks a while ago to see what it would be like, and I didn't have any bad withdrawl symptoms or anything like that, and if anything, felt more productive and focused overall. That's probably a very good sign I should just quit altogether, but I still kind of crave the buzz I get sometimes when I go without it for a day or so. Sorta like chasing the dragon, but even lamer and more stupid.

>>12289 I started smoking cigarettes when I was 13 and quit when I was 16. Now I'm addicted to a vape, but at least I don't drink or do any other drugs.

I have actually started to take a liking to nicotine pouches. They hit oddly hard though and I still dislike how they make my throat sore if I do not constantly sip water but they seem to help my ability to focus. One side effect I have noticed though is my resting heart rate is higher now and beats harder which can make me feel more restless.

>>20250 Thanks for the advice. I don't know if it helped but I haven't bought a new vape since, I did start smoking cigarettes more, still doing it. But I feel like I'll stop them soon because every day when I see the last cig in the pack I tell myself that this will be the last. It is hard controlling the urges to buy new pack but I feel like the quitting is near. The thing with caffeine is, I almost drink 5-7 cups of coffee a day, in office and also at home. I am not addicted to either, I believe it's just accessibility to cigs is what makes me go and buy it, it's like autopilot mode whenever I walk towards a shop and buy a new pack. But at least I am happy I was able to quit vape and haven't tried to buy one for around 15 days now. One step at a time.

>>20364 Ganbare!!!! Question: What is the reason you want to quit?

>>20365 It's mainly just because I want to be healthy, no one in my family smokes so I feel guilty doing it, but since I am addicted it is hard to stop it.

Ive been smoking like chimney the last few days. Over week ago i smoked some strong weed and no cigarettes, havent smoked two days after the weed trip, i didnt even have much of a desire but i needed something to unwind and take my mind of the weed. Im down to the last 6 papers and tobacco ration seem to fit in such a way i use up both in two days , i plan on quitting after that. Its such a waste of money, time and health, with weed atleast i get something out of it. I have tobacco and hemp seeds im trying to plant and never put up with going trough the crap of having to obtain mystery lung cancer again hopefully. I struggled with coming off it for a while, smoking weed helped me a lot not to smoke cigarettes, but right now i have no access and my nerves are shot so im using nicotine as cope but it makes things worse i think. >>20387 Dont forget the stench, even as a smoke i am sometimes disgusted by the smell of cigarettes, there are good smelling ciggies out there but too expensive and most only smoke other soykaf.

>>20387 I've been reading this book and it's pretty interesting, might give you some answers might not idk here it is https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=206542309

>>20388 if you want a slightly healthier alternative to nicotine really just dab or buy some pouches. most of the goods of smoking with way less immediate and obvious downsides. easier to quit too since the high is less immediate, so all you have to fight are the demons of dependence and that week long withdrawal

>>20388 Yes sometimes I also don't like the smell, I even hate when I smell my hands after smoking, I wash them thoroughly with soap for like 2 mins before going back to work. >>20389 Thanks for the book, the title itself seems interesting, will update you once I finish reading it!