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>>>/R/27660 >This has never been an anarchist chan. Fair enough. Can I just say that while it's obviously mainly not a chan for discussing politics, I legitimately though the mods and and a significant portion of the users had anarchist sympathies; that it was an understood undercurrent if not an outright topic of discussion. Like I said there is at least one banner that expresses and an anarchist view directly. Right wing posts are deleted more often than anarchist posts. Anarchy threads were tolerated in cyb for a while. From my point of view there is a thread of resiting an oppressive government that runs through cyberpunk media, which seemed to make anarchism a more relevant point of view than other political perspectives. A decent chunk of 'hacker' culture as I see it has relations to anarchism or the left. I will admit that, of course, that it is my own bias that causes me to view things this way. Obviously I want to discuss things I'm interested in (including politics) with people willing to put more effort into their posts than on other sites, but I don't want to do that at that at the expense of undermining the generally good-natured helpful culture.

>>>/R27660 >What are you hoping to achieve? making lainchan more tech oriented than what anarchists did >It's not like this place was overwhelmingly anarchist when you came there were anarchist generals, and they outright told me to "get out, this is anarchist chan" They also tried to astroturf the /cyb/ board with "cyberpunk is anarchist in nature" that seems like anarchist enough >I mean either that or why hurt your own plans by telling us about them? im just shitposting, ignore me >could you explain? yes I can >political pushers are still going to post whatever they think they can get away with as long it brings new info to the table and doesn't outright talk about politics, or use any political terminology I am fine with that Anarchists talking about how Red Army hackers steal corporate info of americans? Fine with it Fasc1sts talking about weev and GNAA, and hacks they have done? Fine with me as long the discussion of technology continues, no matter how much political undertones are, its okay >Doesn't sound great to me. I like /lit/ and /zzz/ and so on I am not talking about those boards, but boards like /cyb/ need a restructuring (ie, not allowing politics), /civ/ needs to get deleted, and /feels/ either needs to become a self-help board where people try to get others in better mental shape through cognitive behavioral therapy or it will go into /circlejerk/ mode, if it isn't anymore (don't know because I don't visit) As long as there is contribution about the topic, and not stagnation or degradation of information being produced and contributed then the board doesn't need to be purged Thats at least my opinion

>>658 >this isn't an anarchist chan >it's just been ~60% about anarchists doing anarchist things, with technology built by anarchists, to live out literary genres that contain overtly anarchist messaging >it's just had threads about scamming and squatting and dumpster diving, but apolitically >it has a zine, but an apolitical one >punk is in the name of the overt cultural movement but no, that's not political either >hacking is totally apolitical, who wants to go to defcon this year, what's ~el8 Here is a quiz to determine if you are a cyberpunk or a salaryman/gangbanger wannabe/tourist >When you read Johnny Mnemonic, did you root for the lowteks or the pharma megacorp? >When you watched the Matrix, did you root for Neo, or Agent Smith? >Have you ever been to a concert you thought was pretty cyb? If so, was it in a basement/someone's house/a church/a general-purpose community space/an art space, or a place that has a dedicated part of the architecture to collect money from participants? If the answer is "didn't care, didn't care, don't leave my house," you are maybe a sociopath and a tourist in the cyberpunk community at large. If the answer is any of the pharma corps, or Agent Smith, you're a wannabe. It's great that you've bought into the corp meme. I'm sure you'll be successful one day. Just like the 50s, you will have a wife, three kids, and a big car, because nothing ever changes, right?

>>659 >don't know because I don't visit bruh

>>658 >A decent chunk of 'hacker' culture as I see it has relations to anarchism THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS, hacker culture (due to practical use being illegal) along with earlier BBSes and later websites about free distribution of information or privacy (such as TOTSE) have always had relations to anarchism. While I don't condone or agree with anarchism, one would have to be stupid to say that a board that covers the topics Lainchan does has no relation. Authoritarian groups that show interest in those ideas however only do so because it benefits them at the time, and the moment they get any power they will immediately turn on those ideas (see those who support banning encryption on 4chan, and how there are actually threads about whether encryption should be legal or not on 4chan).

>>659 I used to contribute much more to tech discussion but as an anarchist I don't have an interest in helping those I know will use the knowledge I give them against me. I am also the poster who started the "cyberpunk is inherently anarchist" meme and it has worked out great. The rupture has happened, everyone can see where everyone else stands, and live or die, lainchan can fight this fight now. The community will either live, and be stronger for the conflict having happened, or die, and be deserving of that death. Either way, I will deny you and your kind this resource. These are the weapons the next war will be fought with and regardless of what happened to weev after getting raped in prison (abolish prisons), you are at a clear disadvantage now and I will see it kept that way one way or another. I have more comrades here than you. We are the most valuable bloc on lainchan because we live in the forefront of this struggle and it has made us strong. We're the ones writing the software you play with, because we need it to survive. Isis Lovecruft, Moxie Marlinspike, Daniel Kahn Gillmor, the entire Riseup collective, and even Jacob Applebaum and Julian Assange, rapists though they are, are OUR comrades, not yours. They are on OUR team, not yours. Apolitical cyberpunk is the bastardized degradation of our movement, watered down and tube fed to people like you who think a metaphor written by two trans women is the best way to talk about your rightist radicalization. I think if you want to take anarchism off lainchan, you should do it the whole way. Don't use GNU/Linux, don't use Tor or GPG or Tox or Ricochet or Signal or even fucking Cryptocat, don't talk about phrak or CDC when it didn't suck or any of the hackers that were on OUR team, don't use our images in your banner. Drop the "punk" from the "cyberpunk," rename /cyb/ to /pet/ but only talk about Syverson's onion router and no mixnets, and stick to discussing hardening OS X like the rest of the HN-tier yuppies. You can't have both. It doesn't work like that. If you think our team is so good you want all our shit with none of our work, maybe you should think about switching.

How can you guys talk about this for days and days?

Hey, I have a proposition. Could we add "lainchan is not feminist, anarchist, leftist, rightist, stallmanist, or anything like that. It is a community of various kinds of posters with whatever views." to the front page, rules page, etc. for reference? Arguments that consist solely of a categorical dismissal paired with a 'lainchan box' (eg. Your views are clearly fascist, lainchan is anarchist, therefore you're wrong) should be banned on sight. A possible stylistic element: (USER HAS RED TEXT. LAINCHAN IS NOT RED. THEREFORE BANNED)

>>664 Well people here seem to love themselves some juicy politics, and lainchan-politics is still politics y'know :^ )

>>664 For many people, their technical work is very much intertwined with their political views in a way that is together a core part of their identity. I don't think this is a character flaw. I would say that it is better to be aware of the political implications of your work than to ultimately be used by people who are, whatever your opinions are. That said, I'm fine with an attempt to downplay political views here if it helps preserve the overall quality of posts and OC. >>663 This guy seems to be false flagging.

>>664 /po‌l/luters have admitted in the old thread that they are intentionally stirring up drama and will only stop if you ban the anar‌chists. Why are they allowed to use this site?

>>660 >>this isn't an anarchist chan >>it's just been ~60% about anarchists doing anarchist things, with technology built by anarchists, to live out literary genres that contain overtly anarchist messaging Kalyx said so himself >>it's just had threads about scamming and squatting and dumpster diving, but apolitically Don't you think right wingers do those things? Just look at top of /p0l/ and you see doxing and hacking. >>it has a zine, but an apolitical one zines are political? dafug >>punk is in the name of the overt cultural movement but no, that's not political either you're a retard >>hacking is totally apolitical, who wants to go to defcon this year, what's ~el8 it is, no matter how its used for >Here is a quiz to determine if you are a cyberpunk or a salaryman/gangbanger wannabe/tourist >buzzfeed level quiz take your circlejerk garbage out of here here's a compilation of smug anime girls for your effort at damage control tho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28sF2-amfMI

>>668 >muh conspiracy theory

>>667 >This guy seems to be false flagging.

>>664 we gots that hard on for the bantz m8o

>>670 What about these >>27634 >>27647

>>673 whats wrong with that tho?

>>674 >>673 tbh theres no proof of "intentionally stirring up drama", just him saying that he wants no politics

>>675 He admits being the spammer.

>>676 where does he do that? the "p0l spammer here"? It sounds ironic to me

>>677 poe's law. Even if they were being "ironic," it doesn't matter because the intent was lost on the audience.

+1 for appreciating kalyx-sempai and the mods We have a thousand image-boards on which to shitpost. What drew me to lainchan was the greater quality of discussion available here and the amazing community of like-minded Lains. If lainchan dies either through a slow decay or more immediate action I will miss this space. Thanks Kalyx for making it exist in the first place

Just make ALL politics against the rules.

guys guys guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iz0WWkd-WQ

>>681 I like world peace better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QPdTA5HOqM

>>679 Thanks http://pilotredsun.bandcamp.com/track/thanks

I think the best measure (baring in mind the resources avaliable) is to heavy-handedly remove political posts for the time-being. That way this whole shitstorm is removed from the foreground.

>>670 This was explicitly stated. Of course, it implies that it was actually a single cognitively-dissonant oldlain who's leading this particular putsch, not a recent invasion of alt-right. So the problem is a little more difficult to solve. (This was in the last thread, the oldlain alt-right asked if anyone knew why he only spammed civ and cyb. The answer is that those have been traditionally anarchist boards [though I usually post anarchist stuff on r unless it's explicitly technical]. These posts were deleted. This fits with the "nobody cared I was a goodthinker until the anarchists started rubbing my cognitive dissonance in my face so now I link lainchan from halturner.net" screencap posted in the last thread.) >>667 Not a false flag. I immediately stopped contributing on lam, tech, cyb, and similar when it was obvious there were alt-right here. When they're gone I'll stop yelling about not spoon feeding people and go back to being more gentle. Or I'll be posting on my own chan with hashcash and a total ban on patriarchal behavior, though I'd rather it not come to that. >>669 Ban evasion, argument from authority, the alt-right definitely couldn't hack it's way out of a wet bag before weev got buttraped (abolish prisons), zines are a punk/DIY thing which is political, good argument, that's like saying nuclear weapons are apolitical (that is exactly the converse of your statement in fact, explain what my point is here if you get it otherwise I will assume it goes over your head), what did you get on it are you a cyb? To everyone calling for lainchan to be apolitical: what does cyberpunk mean to you and why are you interested in it? This is not a snarky question.

>>684 This just appeases the spammer. This is literally a Chamberlain-tier strategy.

I was thinking about shit n stuff Now I am aware nobody here gives half a shit about my opinion for I'm just another faceless anon (though for the mods I'm probably a very bitchy IP). Still. I think I'm going to stick around. I like this place and I don't want to just hand it over to the stormkids. Well... that's actually about it. I'm just going to try and keep the quality in my posts to try and resist the takeover. I like this place and the staff has been doing a decent job.

Why can't we just get along? Why can't those of you enjoying the political discussions be nicer to those you disagree with? It seems like it used to be like this, for the most part.

>>684 Its getting out of hand, lainchan was never about politics really Kalyx, just kill it off

>>688 >political discussions be nicer to those you disagree with this never happens in real life, it'll doubly never happen on the internet. >>686 none of this would be happening if the anarchists didn't get a mod-sanctioned general on /cyb/, then cry when people with conflicting views are allowed to express them on /civ/ because "dis is an anarchist chan safe space okay mods please help no le platform for le fashismis :("

>>690 There used to be Marxism generals but Marxism isn't very cyb. Nobody was ever okay with alt-right on cyb. You can read the pride general as a good example of pre-this one guy's anti-anarchist putsch political discourse on lainchan.

>>690 Also nut up you fucking liberal. No fucking platform.

>>663 >The community will either live, and be stronger for the conflict having happened, or die, and be deserving of that death. Do you know who you're paraphrasing

>>691 >nobody was ever okay with alt-right on cyb. You can read the pride general as a good example of pre-this one guy's anti-anarchist putsch political discourse on lainchan. >no /p01/acks ever visited this site because they didn't start posting about it until anarchist babies co-opted this site unlike you, edgy p01fags can keep their dick in their pants. Also >alt-right are nazis stop drinking the gawker kool-aid, kiddo. >>692 >everyone I don't like is a liberal/reactionary/nazi neck yourself

>>692 I'm fine with there not being anarchist threads if alt-right posts and threads are also deleted. Not letting lainchan become a platform for alt-rigth views like other sites, is worth not talking about anarchism directly here.

there's just something about meta-level political ``discussion'' that makes me feel that the discourse is going nowhere. also, many of you sound like pretentious wannabes; makes me feel less sad about this site being perhaps sold. Kalyx, my nigga, keep on hustling, keep on stacking that paper, baby.

>>658 >I legitimately though the mods and and a significant portion of the users had anarchist sympathies Bullshit if you ask me

>>684 >>689 This. Cyberpunk is not so deeply intertwined with anarchy that we can't have one without the other, that's bullshit. I appreciate that the anarchy people haven't done anything wrong, but bringing up politics at all is bound to cause problems. If the anarchy people want a place to discuss anarchy, I'm sure there's an anarchy-based chan out there. Everyone else who wants to talk politics can discuss it on 4chan/p0l/ or something. No reason they can't browse here and participate in a cyberpunk forum as well so long as they seperate the cyberpunk from the politics and discuss them in two seperate places.

I think whether lainchan is anarchist is basically the same debate as whether punk is anarchist - there were some anarchist punk rock bands that went back to the very beginning, punk was influenced by anarchism but not all punk bands were necessarily anarchist. >>697 I'm sure many of us have sympathies of some kind, but few of us are actual anarchists >>698 let them have their threads - politics are unavoidable, and we've had anarchism generals since lainchan started. Banning politics in general isn't gonna go well, especially (and this is really cliched) on a cyberpunk site.

Is it normal that the nazi shitposters who are shitting up this site and spout "muh free speech you are the real fascists" everytime are the ones who want to censor all (so mainly leftist) political discussion? /po1/ shitposting is not political discussion btw. It's just shitposting. Personnally, political discussion does not bother me as long as it is on topic.

>>665 you should add "cyberpunk ain't punk guise"

>>699 >we've had anarchism generals since lainchan started I was here in the beginning, no you didnt

>>698 >>701 Then delete /cyb/ board all together The only thing of value to salvage from there is hacking general

>>660 >it's just been ~60% about anarchists doing anarchist things Ridiculous number. Maybe 5% at the very most and even that is a push. More than there are in society at large, sure, but then that's true of the right people as well. It's a little fringe chan and fringe views tend to be overrepresented here. >>663 You need to regain your sense of perspective. >"cyberpunk is inherently anarchist" meme and it has worked out great Great? Open your eyes and look around. We're currently talking about if we should ban you and your friends for being agitative, trouble making, lying dicks. Good job mate. Big win. >lainchan can fight this fight now. You come into a temple to my goddess and try to turn it into a warzone and you expect me to thank you for it? I understand you have your perspective and you're going to project that onto others, as we all do, but you need to understand most of us just don't care for your petty worldly fight. We're here to love lain. >Apolitical cyberpunk is the bastardized degradation of our movement >bastardized degradation You said a moment ago that you started the "cyberpunk is inherently anarchist" meme yourself. You are a liar and a bad one at that. >FOSS is anarchist. Ahahaha. No. >>685 >The answer is that those have been traditionally anarchist boards No they haven't. He spammed those boards because the anarchy thread was on /cyb/. Why was the anarchy thread on /cyb/? Because there was no /r/ when it was first made. /r/ was made in response to the fact that /cyb/ was being used as a /r/, the anarchy thread was left where it was because nobody really gave a fuck because it wasn't a big deal. >Not a false flag. Do you know why they think you're false flagging? They're an anarchist, or at least have sympathies and are trying to reconcile their beliefs with your behaviour. Doesn't it say something to you that even your allies want to distance themselves from your actions? >I immediately stopped contributing on lam, tech, cyb, and similar when it was obvious there were alt-right here If you are unwilling to at least try to get along with those who disagree with you then you don't have a place here. You're lied to us. Tried to manipulate us into supporting your politics with memes that probably wouldn't work on a 14 year old. You've pissed us off to the stage where we want you and the other anarchists who, until now, were valued members of the community to be gone. You've shot yourself in the foot and declared it a victory. Even your comrades are assuming that you're their enemy. You have sown discord and hostility. There is no victory here. Not for you, not for anyone. It's just been senseless. >>690 >this never happens in real life, it'll doubly never happen on the internet. Yeah. It's always going to be a problem and people will get angry etc. The real problem is that people stopped even trying. They thought that their agendas were justification to disregard the well-being of this community in favour of pushing their own views of the world. >>702 They have been there a long time. It's the idea that it was anything more than just a thread an anarchist made that gets me.

They are trying to associate themselves with lainchan by any means necessary "Cyberpunk is anarchist" "We have been here from beginning" "Lainchan is anarchist and feminist place" Argument from authority? Kalyx himself told you that lainchan isnt anarchist, fuck off Your long lasting grip over lainchan is over kiddos, we can finally go back to talking about technology BAN THEM ALL KALYX

reposting the poll http://www.strawpoll.me/11001163

>>704 They were here a long time? Fine, but thats just like saying "this place is mine, I saw it first", it just doesnt make any sense

Lainchan is russian imageboard made by russians and for russians. I mean, we even have a seekrit /layer/ circlejerk. I request banning all non-russian IPs. Annex lainchan, slava rossiyi now.

>>27412 11 What other lainon said: > I want a a board about hobbies, techologies and art, not a propaganda platform. Politics wouldn't be so bad if some people weren't so obsessed with it. Even in a thread regarding the future of Lainchan people are arguing about political choices/opinions.

>>705 Whoa no. I know I had a go at that guy but it's not really fair to lump everyone who's politically aligned with him in the same boat. At a guess it's only been 2 posters who've been a problem on the whole lying to push an agenda thing and I don't even want them banned. I just want them to take a step back and look at what they've actually achieved with all this. They haven't been ideal posters but lain still loves them. That said, something needs to give. If you're unwilling to even make an effort to get along with those who disagree with you then this isn't the place for you. Trying to turn it into somewhere that caters to these environmental needs simply isn't working. Please, this is lain's house, put aside your hatred while you're here. >>707 >Fine, but thats just like saying "this place is mine, I saw it first", I don't think that's what that poster was saying. I took it more than we've had politically charged threads for ages and it hasn't always been so much of a problem.

Count me in as another vote for banning politics. The people who argue endlessly about politics online view it as their religion, and think that it's somehow their holy duty to convince you of their ideology. Their minds are already closed to the world. Nothing will change them, and they will never stop spewing their shit, so it's best to just send them somewhere else. This applies to both the left and right sides of the scale, of course. They think the exact same way as each other, even though they would both hate to hear it.

>>710 >If you're unwilling to even make an effort to get along with those who disagree with you then this isn't the place for you first of all, its not me who is making the ruckus secondly, you don't have authority to tell me this isn't place for me fuck you

>>711 +1

>>709 So you want a cyber board, not a cyberpunk board. Just admit you're a tourist. It's okay, actual cyberpunks realize our dangerous freedom is alluring to wage slaves. Even the alt-right wants to get in on it, the cognitive dissonance behind this is the reason for this conflict in the first place. This was an inevitable conflict because cyberpunk is going to attract cyberpunks. If you wanted to discuss configuring your w32-8.1 Thinkpads and nothing else, you should go to thinkpadchan. Cyberpunk is obviously about more than Thinkpads and neon.

>>703 This, cyberpunk triggers me. Could we change the theme of this site to something less indicative of degeneracy, like cyberclassical? Punks are drug addicts and nonconformists, I don't want to associate with them. While we're at it, we should probably delete lit and art: they have nothing but degeneracy on them now. There isn't even a redpilled general on lit and there's just all this non-representational "glitch" art on art. These boards encourage degeneracy and they have nothing to do with tech.

>>712 I have no idea who you are. It was a blanket statement meant for anyone who has been causing rukus. It certainly wasn't aimed at the person I was responding to. My apologies if you're them and I gave this impression. Also I don't need any authority to speak evident truths. The mods don't seem interested in banning your political opposition (though a blanket politics ban does seem on the table) and you, whichever side you're on, can't drive them out yourself. Deal with it. >>714 >actual cyberpunks Nice try but nope. Cyberpunk is a literary genre and in the words of ESR, "Don't call yourself a ‘cyberpunk’, and don't waste your time on anybody who does." Cyberpunk is a genre we're interested in not part of our identity. We're hackers, that's the identity you should have gone after. Step it up senpai.

>>716 Right, you're a tourist. I think citing esr rings a little hollow because he obviously has his own alt-right agenda. when you're living in a van surviving on cryptocurrency and freelancing to support your political projects it becomes hard to ignore the similarities. fortunately, the culture around the genre (which you so enjoy ignoring and minimizing) has such a nice praxis. Cypherpunks are the only anarchists really making movement in this decade. We set ourselves out to fight asymmetric warfare against the surveillance state and we're winning. What's more cyberpunk than that? Also, I don't really want to call myself a hacker any more. Hackers work for the government now. The ones that don't are part of the pg-VC wealth extraction project. Hacker used to be a political term in exactly the same way cyberpunk is, but we lost that struggle when they let feds into DEFCON. (This is one of the reasons I'm adamant about not allowing cyberpunk to be similarly watered down - you're probably too young to remember it, but I remember when hackers had teeth, bark and bite, not like the lapdogs around today.) I'm still waiting for anyone to answer the question at the end of >>660. If you aren't interested in politics, that is in changing the material reality of society, what attracts you to cyberpunk? Cyberpunk is so fundamentally about the struggle between those with resources and therefore power and those with knowledge and therefore power that I can't see what would attract someone not interested in engaging with that struggle. It seems like the apoliticals are mostly interested in Thinkpads, not cyberpunk.

>>717 >>714 Fuck right off. >>716 got it right. Cyberpunk is a literary genre we're interested in and calling us tourists and saying that we're not "cyberpunk" if we don't believe in anarchy is some of the dumbest bullshit I've ever heard. Congradulations on your award.

>>702 >>704 Anarchist generals started up in /cyb/ about a year ago sometime after new years; that's when I stopped lurking so much and actually started contributing. >>714 >actual cyberpunk What is this, 1992? Holy fuck you actually think you're unironically cyberpunk. Nobody gives a shit. We just got over this argument in /q/ back in April. Just stop.

>>27412 22 However, the class traitors (you know who I mean) have to be reined in in my opinion. It has already tainted almost all aspects of many imageboards, and threatens the unique character of lainchan. >>27433 >ban the radicals I might be biased because i'm one of the groups you want to have banned, even if as I'm guessing you'd want it to be implemented like the underage rule, where revealing your age incriminates you, but I really think this is an overly harsh and wrong course to consider. >>27374 It's your complete disregard and aggressive hatred for a differing opinion that is the issue. It is also highly prolific. You believe that you are in the minority and that you are the silenced ones, so you corrupt everything with your own exclusive viewpoint.

>>705 >>711 This +1 >>a million smug anarchist posts >You're a tourist No, you are the tourist. The front page says cyberpunk is dead. Kalyx says lain isn't anarchychan. Most of us just want to talk art or tech without it being derailed into a religious war between anarchists and fascists. I tried to find something equally as smug coming from the equally shitty fascist side of the coin, but they seem more content with spamming than with being smug. >cyber"punk" The genre was coined by media. Gibson isn't a fan of the moniker and never set out to write anything punk. His works are apolitical and nihilistic. People in his books don't fight for a cause, they are forced against their will and fight to survive. There is no such thing as irl cyberpunks. Politics are religion in this day and age. No good discussions or OC can come of this. Make lainchan about technology and arts related to it. Global ban political posts.

>>720 >You corrupt everything with your own view Irony

>>722 Do you really believe that socialists have any grip on the hegemonic ideology of the masses? In reality, we have none at all; far less than the growing mindshare that the ultimately neo-fascist alt right mob controls at the present. If you really believe that socialism equates to the watered down blur between liberalism and social democracy that the left generally shows to the world today, you are the one who has the failing of logic.

>>715 Hahahahha, good one I dont actually have anything against drg and lit >>718 They will just ignore and report you Or call you a sh1ll to slide "anarchist underground movement" They're zealots, and will sink this chan with their p0litics

>>723 >socialism, failing logic etc. What does socialism have to do with my post? >>722 I wrote that the anarchist poster >>720 telling the fascist poster >>27374 that he corrupts everything with his own viewpoint was ironic when his post literally starts by accusing people of being "class traitors". If that isn't irony, I don't know what is.

>>723 >Do you really believe that socialists have any grip on the hegemonic ideology of the masses? >muh "this is anarchist place, get out" Just make up your mind, boynie supporter >far less than the growing mindshare that the ultimately neo-fascist alt right mob controls at the present. Your microagressions are triggering me, I need my safe space >If you really believe that socialism equates to the watered down blur between liberalism and social democracy that the left generally shows to the world today, you are the one who has the failing of logic. If you want to talk about politics lainchan isnt for you

>>726 >If you want to talk about politics lainchan isn't for you. +1

>>708 Ban all ukranians

After a while of deliberation, I feel I have to agree with the call to depoliticise Lainchan. A part of me wants me to grow some teeth and demand no platform for fascists, but I don't think this is the correct or moral path to follow; I'd like to occupy the moral high ground. What defines Lainchan? Whatever it is, it is not one single ideology, and while it's been nice to have a place free of the alt right infection for so long, you realise why we cannot ever have nice things. For me, it's a chill, friendly attitude and high quality long form posts, along with cyberpunk aesthetic and philosophy, and even though I'm not an anarchist, I still feel welcome here. The quality boards (/tech/ and /lam/) don't have any politicking anyway, at least I can't see it.

>>729 I think I need a conclusion, so: yes, I think that politicking on Lainchan should be banned, or filtered at least, or countered in any way acceptable.

>>728 The country analogy for an ideology isn't the best as people in a country may not agree with the views of the country. I'll bite anyway. If the ukranians are unanimously planting their flag on this site and claiming it their exclusive territory, then yes, ban them. >>>27751 Has the right idea

>>717

>>731 >If the ukranians are unanimously planting their flag on this site and claiming it their exclusive territory, then yes, ban them. I agree, crimea is russian

>>733 I was using the terrible country analogy for political ideology. Let me rephrase my original response in >>731 >If the anarchists/fascists/other political group are unanimously planting their flag on this site and claiming it their exclusive territory, then yes, ban them.

>>733 So is lainchan, btw tbh fam

Mods really ought to make a decision on this political bullshit or this thread will go on forever and kill traffic to all the other boards. +1 ban politics

>>685 Okay, I'm on you political side but let me explain why I thought you were false flagging. >>663 >I used to contribute much more to tech discussion but as an anarchist I don't have an interest in helping those I know will use the knowledge I give them against me. This is kind of absurd. Unless you have a bunch of 0-day exploits, it doesn't much matter what knowledge you drop on lainchan. Not posting about basic programs on /lam/ or mostly basic hacking techniques on /cyb/ doesn't really make t more difficult for alt-right people to hone there skills. The good thing about lainchan is that it's a nice environment for discussing these thing with a greater proportion of folks who know what they're talking about. Security through obscurity is always the worse practice. If you're anarchist developing software related to privacy, while it may help individual fascists in the short run, it still subverts their ultimate goals. For example police and military use TOR but I absolutely want it to keep existing and not be replaced by some super secret anarchist only tool. And anyway lainchan is public. Even before alt-right folks became more vocal they were here and possibly benefiting from your contributions anyway. They could pretend to be anarchists comrades to throw you off even more. >I am also the poster who started the "cyberpunk is inherently anarchist" meme and it has worked out great. I mean, I don't have an argument against this but it sounds very silly. >all those people you mention Riseup doesn't worry about potentially helping people who have diametrically opposing views very much. I'm not even sure DKG is an anarchist, and I'm pretty sure Assange isn't. Right wingers using the term red pill is a total non issue. > if you want to take anarchism off lainchan Eh, this isn't really what I want, but if it prevents it being a platform for the right, there are plenty of other places to talk about anarchism in detail.

I would do something about this sooner, but I'm at work.

>>738 You got a job? Congrats, man. Thanks for the site and your dedication to making it better.

>>738 where did you start working kalyx?

>>738 Stop slacking off and go back to work

The quality dropped with the advent of political holy wars in the form of whole threads or shoehorned into good threads. The mainstream net is obsessed with political shouting matches that are getting more violent and extreme with each passing year. Other chans fell victim to these holy wars and as channers migrate to other fringe communities to talk about their hobbies and post interesting projects or original content, the warmongerers aren't far behind; ready to claim lainchan as their nation and use it as a soapboxing platform for their political agenda. They really believe that they have the power to change society and the political landscape They don't. It seems more like an excuse to feel like you are doing something important with your life when in reality we are all insignificant. These people think they can shape the world to fit their needs without realizing how much the world shapes them.

>>742 deep but not as deep as your mom

>>738 hey kalyx I'll finish university in ~2y and get a job. My 2nd paycheck will contribute towards lainchan if you can keep it up in a sane way till then. No monies now because broke student. Seeing as the discussion level is quite low not only in this thread, but in general on the board, try to answer these questions: * Was discussion level better 1y ago, 2y ago, ... in the beginning? * Did it degrade because there are more political posts? More of a certain worldview or generally? Was the board apolitical n years ago? * Will it become better if you ban all political posts, certain views, or certain threads? * What do you think should be on a cyberpunk board? * What do you think should be on a lain chan and why is there almost nothing about lain? oh and personally, I dislike the tech threads on cyb. Software, hardware, haxxing as in breaking servers, running servers and other /g/-topic discussion isn't what's /cyb/ in my opinion. So independent of any opinion on political discussion, do you think cyb should be a technical board? picture /cyb/ related.

>>744 It would complete the big three computer branches: computer science/programming in /Λ/ , Information technology in /tech/ , and computer security/cryptography in /cyb/ (maybe rename this /sec/urity?). >I dislike tech threads Computer technology and related fields (electronics) is a large part of this board and why many (including myself come here). Even /art/ has a computer art lean. Cyberpunk here implies the genre and aesthetic (several mods have already stated this). >Why is there almost nothing about lain? Lain is a cyberpunk anime that is very tech and conspiracy heavy. Lain is attributed as an internet deity (in jest) and reflects the sites theme of cyberpunk aesthetics and tech orientation. If you want to talk about lain, there is a whole board for her /lain/ and an animu board /w/ .

>>744 >Software, hardware, haxxing as in breaking servers, running servers and other /g/-topic discussion isn't what's /cyb/ in my opinion. I would argue that the 'cyber' in 'cyberpunk' neccessarily includes such topics. And the level of discussion about them here is at a much higher standard than any /g/ I know. >do you think cyb should be a technical board? Yes, but not purely. Earlier you ask "What do you think should be on a cyberpunk board?", to which I would say the topics mentioned above; but also biohacking, creativity, literature, and (here we go) politics. >Will it become better if you ban all political posts, certain views, or certain threads? No no no no no no. Censorship *should not* be the answer. Politics goes hand in hand with cyberpunk themes and concepts - authoritarianism, anarchism, socialism - they all come into play in various ways. I am personally of the opinion that people can think and express whatever the hell they like, without interference. It is also fine for their views to annoy or antagonise other people, and for said people to speak out against it. It is *not* okay to silence either side in this, or otherwise 'no-platform' discussion. Unless someone is breaking a rule, their post is just as valid as anyone elses. Boot note: Good luck with your studies!

>>746 >not okay to silence either side. I'd agree if there was an actual discussion. When it is a matter of spamming your agenda, then plugging your ears to opposition, then lashing out with more vitriol, I wouldn't call that speech, I'd call that spam. It isn't even a view to be discussed anymore, it is a full-blown belief system that requires 100% unswaying failthfulness and zeal.

Y'all are not bringing anything new to the conversation here. For the love of God stop talking about politics ITT.

>>748 OK

>>748 Then please tell us if there is going to be an official decision on a youknowwhat discussion ban or not.

>>748 this >>750 I bring it up because it seems to be an important issue regarding the future of the site; and that's something we all care about. I'll shut up about it in here though.

WE ARE HAVING AN EPIC STAFF PARTY ON MUMBLE TONIGHT AT 11PM CST YOU CAN JOIN US TOO SO WE CAN ALL TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AND START AN ETHERPAD OR SOME SHIT LETS FIX LAINCHAN WHOS WITH ME?

I jus wanna have a fun chill time, how about we do that?

>>753 with you buddy ;_;

>>745 There you go. Rename cyb to sec, rename the site from lainchan to thinkpadchan, ban anyone who talks about doing anything with this technology except checking email and browsing porn, and congratulate yourself on saving lainchan.

ITT: fags and other cancerous users thinking lainchan is worth using. Boy, by now even 8chan has better moderation than lainchan.

>>749 Checked!

Here's my two cents, but it's pretty radical. Please consider it and reply with your thoughts: No being anonymous besides one board. AKA lets all have usernames. Anonymous imageboards won't scale if we want quality. 4chan was a great experiment, but the kids who grew up on it are older and know how to game the system. Just look at it now! Bad actors and bad groups of people can pose as whatever or whoever they want and ruin the culture. It's all about who has the most people, and we're outnumbered in the scope of the internet. We're a small community, and larger communities can easily throw us off balance. Identities establish relationships between users. Identities establish accountability. Identities encourage one to make good content so they can be recognized for it. Identities make you stick to your views instead of baiting people. This is the one change we would need. Everyone else here is wonderful, even kalyx. Please reply with reasons it would or would not work. Give me reasons that we each *need* to be anonymous.

>>758 Interesting ideas. I agree that more of a forum structure (with usernames, maybe even profiles) would help with the accountability for what we all post. However the idea of an anonymous forum like this is still beneficial. It's the very lack of accountability that removes any possibility of a chilling effect on conversations; people aren't afraid to say something they don't want to be associated with. That comes with both good and bad of course. To me the good outweighs the bad. There are so few places like this on the internet anymore. This is the only one I know of where you can have good quality discussion.

That's a good point -- there's plenty of good forums, but not many anonymous imageboards. Forced accounts would break the unique nature of the site. I'll fight the system by tripfagging though. Anyways, strict moderation would otherwise solve the problem. The mods are always going to piss at least one person off by banning somebody, but enough outcry against certain instances could hold mods accountable. With that in mind, things seem to be going pretty well. Besides this politics-spam. Maybe just give bans for rambling political arguments? they're pretty pointless. What can we do in the grand scheme of politics? Unless you're talking about the physical works you have done to further your political goals, why even have opinions if you aren't making a difference? But that's a matter of opinion... I'll just wait for the lainchan mumble rumble then

>>760 > [...] but not many *good* imageboards.

>>717 I made about five posts already about how political discussion sucks and should be removed, but you opened my eyes now. Politics is, one way or another, a form of hacking society. Manipulating people and institutions and events. Tinkering with it, picking it apart, putting it back together, changing it, using it for some end or another. That is pretty relevant to lainchan. Is a guitarist also a guitar? Of course not. Surely they need and complement each other, but they couldn't be any further from -being- each other. In such a sense, I have no problem with discussing, hacking, exploring and exploiting any political ideology, see what can be done with it. But I don't want to feel anarchism in my guts, I want to gut the damn thing! I want to fuck around with various kinds of fools following this or that ideology, and then discuss my methods, results, experiences with the fellow lainchanner. A person with an ideology has made a firm choice about what is good and bad, what is sacred and desecrate, someone who draws motivation from and takes action based on these values and perspective. They don't want to change, and only learn to further their cause. A guardian, a rebel, a free man, whatever. But there's also those who are just curious, and here to tinker and learn. Those who couldn't care less about right and wrong, and don't mind corporations enslaving the masses as long as they get to learn about all this cool tech that is used in the process. May the tourist hacker space cowboys ride them ideologist cattle to the Orion and beyond. YEEHAW!

WE ARE HAVING AN EPIC STAFF PARTY ON MUMBLE TONIGHT AT 11PM CST YOU CAN JOIN US TOO SO WE CAN ALL TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AND START AN ETHERPAD OR SOME SHIT LETS FIX LAINCHAN WHOS WITH ME? BRING BEER

>>737 The bar used to be set much higher, believe it or not. But I stopped caring about raising it when it became obvious I was helping alt right co-opt my strategies, tactics, and praxis that are, IMO, a critical part of the success of the cryptoanarchist/cyberpunk project. Anarchists have learned most of the things people talk about on cyb: we've actually needed to avoid surveillance, fight oppressive governments, communicate securely, and engage in hand to hand combat with riot police for decades. Virtually all of the political debates on lainchan are re-hashings of the insurrectionist vs. organizationalist perspective in various ways. So when lainchan went from being a place where I could discuss praxis with comrades, to teach the alt right security culture, I lost interest, and gained a wariness against helping anyone at all. And no, we can't all just get along, because if I teach an alt-right how to do something even basic like cracking WPA keys cheaply, there's a very real chance someone I know will get killed for it. I have friends and comrades who have been engaging in disrupting the far right for years now and have dabbled in it myself. While I trust my own security culture I'm not about to risk theirs for the sake of the apolitical crowd on lainchan, whom I have very little sympathy for anyway. Generally, I subscribe to the maximum ultraist viewpoint that you should always deepen the rupture, not paper over it. So when the rightists started being vocal, I got vocal back. It would either end in empirical evidence that lainchan was not a safe place for me to develop people's skillsets, or end in a mostly radicalized community that could do a lot of real good. Defeatism is incredibly unproductive in 2016. A single botnet could decide the US election and you don't even need to figure out how to do that, you can google probably that exact phrase and find a step by step guide. So this was a high-reward (a cadre of competent cyberpunks I could call comrades) low-risk (in the worst case I've lost some designated shitposting time figuring out how to bait a single fascist) action. Even if Kalyx starts enforcing the apoliticality xe's always aspired to, that just means I'll be able to capture some part of the anarchists on a community we control. Riseup will not host lists or even email for rightists, and have always had this policy. DKG is an anarchist and I know that because we've talked about it though I think you might be thinking of John Gilmore who is also an anarchist. I think if you read Assange's essays you'll see what I mean. The fact that the rightists ape cyberpunk (indisputable) anarchist (thematically) narratives written by people they would have exterminated is I think a brilliant illustration of how out of place rightism is from a cyberPUNK point of view. That is the future you have to look forward to if they win this struggle and get to dictate what is and isn't discussed on lainchan: an extermination of the source of the ideas and artifacts that they want to consume. I think if you like there things cyberpunks make (libre software, private communications systems, decentralized networks, usable cryptography), you should recognize the need to put up with the political views that necessitate this sort of thing in the first place. I'm not okay with taking anarchism off lainchan. That teaches the alt-right they can touch us, for one, and it neuters the context that makes everything else meaningful, as >>>/tech/26505 points out. I think without us, lainchan will become incredibly boring. In this context there isn't any way to verify this, but it's my advance prediction, and I invite lains to take note of it and see if it bears out should events play out as I expect them to.

>>764 >Riseup will not host lists or even email for rightists You can absolutely get a riseup email if you're a rightist. You just have to plausibly lie, and I don't know if they even ask you any questions when you make an account anymore. You're right about lists though, but I doubt you'd be interested in that if you were a rightist anyway. You can still use their vpn if you're a rightist. >there's a very real chance someone I know will get killed for it You must be living somewhere way more intense than me if one more person who can crack WPA keys is a matter of life and death. I'm pretty sure moxie hosted a public website for people to crack WPA keys and other hashes for a while by the way. I think the benefits of people who agree with me learning to be more technologically skilled and savvy, is much greater than the risks of me helping people who don't agree with me to use those skills. If your situation is different I can sympathize. >a cadre of competent cyberpunks I could call comrades If you want that there are other places for it. Or you could create your own which would be neat! I don't think it's reasonable to try to strong arm any community towards a political ideology when it seems the majority of the people are resisting the notion. It can only backfire and make your beliefs look bad. And then you certainly won't get the things you want in that case. 'Taking over lainchan' or whatever isn't exactly smashing the state. I'm not looking to 'control' any communities that weren't specifically created by and for anarchists. It was my impression for a time that while lainchan wasn't an anarchist site per se, it was the general consensus political undercurrent. If that's wrong, I'm fine dialing it back a bit. In any case people seem more interested in preventing people from > the source of the ideas and artifacts that they want to consume. This is only partly true. RSA works with the NSA directly, and of course the NSA works on publicly available cryptography itself is probably not filled with anarchists. Stallman isn't an anarchist. I think it would be a stretch to assume Phil Zimmermann is.

tl/dr from the mod chat: cyb is being renamed to sec, kalyx is living off of lainchan donations (90% of trans youth end up homeless... plz donate), nothing is happening with politics except trying to contain it to civ, drg, lit, and art are getting merged, kalyx is advertising on 4chan (thanks dumbass) to get ``more diversity.'' they're also deleting r for no reason. kalyx is posting a recording; I have a recording as well I will post if it the recording xey post is incomplete. this was literally an opportunistic cash-grab by kalyx. Kalyx, I will pay lainchans server bill for the next year up front if you stop pulling bullshit like this. Email in field.

>>765 I have gotten rightists' email accounts deleted after they've outed themselves. Riseup provides infrastructure for comrades, not for anyone. And the point here is we don't know. I know several people who maintain ties to Klan, WN, and similar groups for the sole purpose of passing information to antifa. Their lives are endangered in doing this and I've known people who've had this go very bad very quickly. Could a Klansman knowing how to crack WPA endanger them? I'm not willing to risk it because I don't want to lose a comrade. I encourage you to think of the people who are materially engaged in the struggle against rightism before disseminating knowledge to them. You and I are the only people on lainchan who even knew about cloudcrack -- rightists don't have our expertise when it comes to this and it will stay that way if we block them from being part of the communities where they can be taught it. I'm not interested in taking over lainchan, I'm interested in maintaining its original political makeup and alignment. This was to everyone's benefit before utf8-filename lain started getting triggered by anarchism on the rare occasion when we discussed it openly. This lead to a rupture that both factions widened into the present conflict. You only have to look at a representative sample of explicitly anarchist threads in cyb (protest tech general, squatting threads, shifty business threads, the anarchism general) versus the "cyburr totalitarino genral" to see which group is more like lainchan proper. The rightposting only began in earnest in the last few months and came to a head because someone literally posted a link here on 4storm.

>>766 so basically the good things get solved and and the problems are getting left alone. sounds like kalyx

Party going well

>>766 kk gg lains, it was schway for a while.

It's still going on. Come join if you think there's a problem.

this is the log https://pad.riseup.net/p/r.44e71cc01c0fea2e785847ee433afb4d/timeslider#12312

>>772 Anyone have $6,000 to save this website from Kalyx? All they plan on doing is trying to remove the anarchists and appease the /p0l/fags, which isn't going to stop the /p0l/fags from shitposting. How long until we start seeing threads in /cyb/ (now /sec/urity) asking why posters here think government backdoors or banning encryption is a bad thing?

>>773 So if /cyb/ is getting renamed, is this still actually a cyberpunk board or is it just another /g/litterboy slum? What board do I ironically LARP on now?

>>774 It's going to be /sec/ for computer /sec/urity.

>>774 Don't know where they're going to move the non computer security related discussion though. Meant to post this picture with >>773

WE HAD A VERY IMPORTANT MUMBLE MEETING AND WE RECORDED IT FOR YOU! IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE CHANGES COMING TO LAINCHAN THEN SUFFER FOR 1.3HOURS AND LISTEN TO THIS AUDIO FILE. https://volafile.io/get/U-E1P-yIw67yY/Mumble-2016-08-17-23-09-39-lainchan.org-Moderator-Meeting.mp3 You have to listen to it because everyone who transcribed added some layer of fake bullshit to it.

>>777 tldr / tldw pls

>12 different versions of cũck add kalyx and make it 13 Why the fuck isn't there an announcement or a tl.dr from one of the many meme orbiters this site's admin has ? Why do I have to waste my time on this when I already waste it on some other shit.

nevermind I'm a retard but you should really post that summary under the announcement because stupid trigger happy like me

>shadowbans hhahahahahhaahhahahhahahhah

>>778 /cyb/ being renamed to /sec/urity; threads will be consolidated. /art/, /diy/ and /w/ will be merged into /cult/ure. There were talks about /civ/ being renamed to /phi/losophy due to most political discussion being meta talk but everyone was super split about it. Paid-for community ad banners are going to be a thing eventually; we don't know how or when. Donations revamp; put emphasis on how much is needed and why. Moar sticker designs and maybe delve into t-shirts. Further emphasis on site development i.e. entry page, bring back affiliate links, look for/develop alternatives to vichan on #lainchan-dev @ freenode Mods need to stop being shit; users need to report more often. That's about it.

>>780 The mod/admin team didn't post that. They want to bury it in an hour long mp3 and a huge etherpad.

>>782 all these stickies and stuff seems kind of hysterical for that

>>784 skip around by five minute increments and you can eventually hear the real reason. kalyx is out of the air force and needs money. he literally just yells at the mods about ads, how we need "more users" because "more users = more donations." he's advertising on 4chan out of some deluded hope that will make lainchan more profitable for him. there's a hilarious clip where he goes "so make lainchan a nonprofit, and hire a benevolent dictator for life. DOES ANYONE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?" meanwhile supposedly the server is inches away from shutting down.

>>782 >/phi/losophy You mean /φ/losophy?

>>786 >/φ/losophy? Yes!

>>782 My idea: Board A: cyb, tech, lambda, diy Board B: w, lit, art, other art/media topics such as games Board C: zzz, drg, other weird/paranormal topics Board D: off-topic Others: q, layer Into the trash it goes: civ, feels (does this really need a whole board? Even if there's interest, I don't think it's healthy for the site) There should be as few boards as possible, and new ones should be created or split off only when there's a clear need for them. Politics should be heavily discouraged if not outright banned, especially outside D.

I'm reading a lot of this discussion, and it seems like a lot of you don't realize that you don't get a lot of diy and tech traffic because their are far better sites for all of those subjects. Hell, /diy/ on 4chan is faster and generally of higher quality. Most people come here just to talk about shit they can't find on other sites. Regularly that means politics. If you want to get rid of it, you do what you think you need to do, but don't be surprised if your traffic slows considerably.

>>789 Politics are everywhere. Getting away from them is a lot harder than talking about them.

The second half of the recording https://volafile.io/get/0wxdP_GIw643Z/second.flac

>>791 is it though?

rip in kill lainchan thanks kalyx for ripping me off normie windows/ubuntu cunts along with arch hipsters killed this site

>>793

>>781 Shadowbans are good for dealing with spam. They're annoying to implement in vichan however as it's all generation of static HTML. I doubt it'll get done anytime soon. >>786 That's a great idea. If we go for that name it has to be done like that. Also, there's something that's relevant but I didn't really get a good opportunity to bring it up in mumble. We can afford to be patient. The server is fine (and nobody ever said it wasn't...) and in general the site isn't going to explode in the next few weeks. A lot of the things we talked about are going to take time and it's the middle of summer when everyone is busy with other things and the site is at its slowest. That said, we've gotten a little bit of energy from this whole thing and it would be a shame to waste it. Someone with some authority should give us some simple specs that we can be getting on with. What do you want from ad banners? Or the donations page? Or a new homepage? Without a clear indication of what we should be doing people are going to be too hesitant and worried that their work won't be useful.

>>785 that's always been the case; kalyx has always used donation money to live because he's practically a vagabond. this is nothing new.

>>786 yes pls

>>795 >Shadowbans are good for dealing with spam. >shadowbans >ever go back to reddit, you don't belong here.

>>795 >shadowbans/hellbans NOPENOPENOPENOPE. Shadow bans are a cowardly mechanism of punishment.

Anyone else fap to the mumble recording?

>>798 What? It's spam for gods sake. I only talked about it because I looked at implementing it for uboa when they were being spammed with CP. I ended up just doing an easier solution though. If the mods ever shadowbanned someone for not spam, I'd be out, but I don't think they would. >>799 I agree but they do mean spammers waste their time.

>>777 Can you explain how someone added fake bullshit to the transcript? I was in the mumble and watched as (nils?) added each line as it was said, and listened as someone asked if the transcript was correct and people confirmed it. https://pad.riseup.net/p/r.44e71cc01c0fea2e785847ee433afb4d/timeslider#12312

>>799 I'd say it's only cowardly when it comes to dealing with registered users; imageboards don't have that. Granted there could be infighting among the mod team but that has more to do with trust with themselves than it has to do with anything else.

Who's excited for the inevitable _Anarchist General Culture_ thread on the new /cult/ board???

>>788 kkkalyx was pretty clear about NOT merging zzz and drg. And I agree with him there.

>>788 Board A is going to dwarf every other board conceivable. Maybe there should be a /soft/ and /hard/ board for software and hardware? /diy/ and hardware tech discussion goes to /hard/ and all your programming projects and new software (ipfs etc) goes to /soft/

Jesus most of your guys sound like cuuuucks on mumble Honestly, lainchan brings nothing to table. Its nothing new or a "cool good" community you keep advertising it as. I can get much better content on some forum or even some of more popular chans you despise. You're just stuck up pseudointellectual circlejerk that does nothing but blogpost.

>We need trusted users -- people who post in the irc and make quality posts and content Ah, so you're going to kill lainchan, since we all know what happened to IRCwheels :^)

>>807 then why are you here?

>>809 I just want to talk about cyb things like soykaf and cybernazism.

>>788 /lam/ and /lit/ should be kept as seperate boards in their own rights. They might have low posts/day but they have strong communities.