Vlang

V is another soykafty C alternative out there. Its memory handling is kinda fuarrrked and the devs seem like soyboys, but otherwise in a pretty language. Anyone lainons have any V projects?

>>24345 I've literally never heard of it in my life.

>>24345 At least provide links and info for soykaf people've never heard about.

>General rule 4 - You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. You just killed a thread. RIP

>>24345 they mean this https://vlang.io/ last i heard about v it was promising a lot and delivering not so much. weirded out by how they're porting doom to their language instead of making a doom style fps engine from scratch. i'd think the doom engine has a lot of code and design optimized for the hardware it was initially written for but doesn't make sense so much today, especially when people extend the engine to support massive maps, 3d models, and different gamemodes like cart racing and 3d platformers. making a programming language all of a sudden became a hobby, so many people seem to be doing it nowdays. jai, zig, odin, .... okay actually maybe there's not that many, it's just in the past it was basically unheard of and seen as "impossible" to make your own programming language and now all of a sudden a lot of people have come out or are coming out with new programming languages and making your own programming language is a common topic people talk about. i suppose there are older ones too - dlang, haxe, rust.

>>24355 >okay actually maybe there's not that many, it's just in the past it was basically unheard of and seen as "impossible" to make your own programming language and now all of a sudden a lot of people have come out or are coming out with new programming languages and making your own programming language is a common topic people talk about. Well, designing a programming language is a part of some univ courses. Yea, most of them are not too complex tho. But still there is quiet a number of people who at least attempted basics of such.

>>24345 V stands for VAPORWARE

>>24345 doesn't this language leak memory with hello world?

>>24355 Hobby languages have always been around, but since most of them are either limited in their usefulness and/or overlap very heavily with an existing language, they get forgotten with time.

>>24359 No, V is for Virgin

>>24363 I dont know about hello world, but it does have an issue with memory in general.

>>24389 Meant >>24361

>>24355 Don't you dare compare zig or odin to this crap. The author of V is a fraud. He has absolutely no clue about compiler development. All of his claims are either exaggerated or plainly false. The V "compiler" was originally implemented without any kind of parser. It was literally just a series of string replacement operations which translated V to C. It has evolved a bit since then, but it's still soykaf. Stay away from that language.

>>24393 lol how does this even happen

>>24393 How is happenlance coming along?

>>24393 String replacement is all you need. Problems weren't

>compiled >has repl What kind of soykafty language is this?

>>24708 MLs have repls and are pretty good compiled languages, hell, even C has a repl. Reasons why vlang may be bad have already been pointed out itt but your point comes from outright ignorance.

>>24345 >V I'm Johnny fuarrrking Silverhand.

>>24709 >c repl When did this happen? >MLs' repl Don't they just interpret it into bytecode?

>>24361 The V compiler wastes/leaks wam when compiling hello world is what you are thinking. I do not think the hello world executable itself leaks wam. Given that claim was made during the pre v0.2 version. Not sure if it still does or does not. >>24393 Yikes, take a break from the ad hominem. All software is like kicking dead whales down the beach/is crap, move on. Some people try to rationalize this by saying their selection of software is less harmful but at the end of the day, we are only human. Crap is crap, and we are all polishing a turd. Yours might be big, it might be small but it is all a turd. You would think by now cargo cults would be better understood on how they are detrimental to software engineering. It gets so tiresome when people forget what their noggin can do and never critically examine rather than parrot vapid claims. For what its worth a lot of the strong opinions on V are mostly from how people feel about the developers. They (the developers) do not respond to criticism well, then again very few developers of any projects seem to. Poettering, JWZ, and even Linus have had bad reactions toward valid criticisms. The difference is they all are protected by necessity (of their program/project) or their cargo cult. V is still young, there is no v1.0 release, and there is nothing critical written in it. Yet the amount of vitriol for something so infantile seems are bit unwarranted to me. Especially when the standard library changes so much through each release. By no means am I saying V is good but at the same time I am not saying it is bad. Rather can we be constructive with our criticisms.

>> 24708 Practically every major Common Lisp implementation is compiled and has a REPL.

>>24361 >>24389 lol

>>24757 I can reproduce the results for V you had. It made me curious about Zig since it was mentioned before in this thread. The Zig compiler sends a SEGV signal.

Spent the last couple of days playing around with the latest build of V. I like what it can do, but man am I fighting to find any community packages that are up to date/compile out of the box. Most of the good graphics libraries (raylib in particular) have multiple bindings but none compile after you do a v install. Even the flagship vlang/ui module has compilation issues. Seems like the only module that is somewhat reliable is vex, and I am so done with webshit. I really want to like this language, but it feels like Rust circa version 0.5.0

>>24345 I'd like if you gave us a link to their website or something. I can't just look up 'V' and expect to find anything.

>>24757 That also includes the compilation process. V is not the only program wholes interpreter/compiler leaks memory. No the real funny is that a program compiled by v still leaks memory PicRel is the demo program, shown on vlang.io, leaking memory

>>24757 Sorry unrelated, but whats that font and bg? looks sick

>>30110 Ran from Texhnolyze http://www.minitokyo.net/Ran+%28Texhnolyze%29 It's an anime made by the 3 big brain dudes that made SEL. But unlike SEL (which is low-IQ cringe internet-escapist waifu-bait from their early neet years), Texhnolyze is awesome, their learned, matured masterpiece.

The only things I know about V is from that blog post "V is for Vaporware" ( https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 ) that slammed down the compiler pretty hard when it was revealed. It's a pretty old article though, it probably improved a lot in the meanwhile. I don't see why anyone would choose to use V though

>>30125 It has not improved. The author's approach is still to hype broken and/or nonexistant things.

>>30137 Actually, it has improved. Memory leaks are something you can fix with autofree. "Looking in vlib/v/gen/c/cgen.v I see that _vcleanup() is only populated if autofree_used is true, and indeed if I do instead v -autofree -o hello-autofree.c hello.v the _vcleanup() function frees all the resources." https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/9327 They plan on making the autofree option the default when compiling, but I'm not sure if they've done that yet. Either way, the problem is easily remedied by setting a single option when compiling and the language is in alpha. Seems pretty good so far. Though as someone learning to program currently, it'd be nice if there were more learning resources from the ground up. I don't exactly see the point in having all these "alt-C" langs (Rust, V, Nim .etc) if none of them come with learning resources that teach concepts from the ground up. If I knew C with its relevant concepts already, I wouldn't be learning these langs.

Always on image boards I see among the listed "main features" of a given programming language some reference to the political views or masculinity of the developers. Surely whether or not a programming language is worth using is determined by virtues of the programming language itself. And the political views of the creators are irrelevant? Why even mention it?

>>30969 >Surely whether or not a programming language is worth using is determined by virtues of the programming language itself. Argument could be made, that if you are going to use language, you are inevitably going to interact with its community (when you are looking for help on forums or StackOverflow). If you hold values vastly different from those of the current developer community, it might be unpleasant experience (for both sides). Views of the language creator might be irrelevant to the community, but it seems plausible that they will shape it a lot.

>>24345 >https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/14895 >Programs built with the V compiler no longer leak memory by default. Stopped reading right there...

>>24359 (me) V's interesting, actually, because vguy has put a ton of work into the superstructure of the language, so to speak. He worked on repls, hot code loading, running Doom in an OS, v fmt, adding a GUI tetris example--before nailing down the basic memory model of the language. He is poor in CS rigor but rich in putting in the work, and it makes for an oddly satisfying language and I can no longer smear it as vaporware. If you set out to break it, you'll break it. Even if you don't set out to break it, if you rely on the guard rails of the compile they will fail you and you'll fall to your death. But in the meantime you can carefully write code and have a pretty good time. Or look at it like this: you could use an FP language and have a rock-solid core language, and then wait for decades for the community to never quite add the conveniences. You could use Rust and have a pretty solid language pretty good tooling and then wait decades for incremental compiler speedups. Or you could use V and have a post-apocalyptic shanty town with futuristic conveniences and compiler speed, and only wait years for the core language to solidify. Tradeoffs.

>>32312 Or you could use common lisp, which has the aforementioned tools along with a solid core (albeit messy and inconsistent). Even hacking at a low level is very pleasant in CL

>>30969 Why are you surprised when the vast majority of people on imageboards these days are larper pseud neonazis who turn everything into some inane culture war soykaffest instead of ever having anything on topic to say

>>32318 true, CL has a lot of that by default, and a large standard, and multiple good implementations. V advantages vs. CL are 1. it's not Common Lisp. I could elaborate but you get it, right? People choose languages that aren't CL all the time already. 2. it can produce libraries that other languages can use via the C ABI and without GC 3. it can more easily make small binaries, even static binaries. 4. it has a faster compiler. Keeping SBCL running in SLIME doesn't make compilation fast. 5. better concurrency, even as immature as it is. Clojure and Erlang don't have point #1 in their disfavor, but they have other more obvious drawbacks.

>>30986 I don't even know how you can get on topics of politics there. The worst I guess is like license issues. Cause some might not agree with your views there. But beyond that's it's genuinely hard to get into an argument. I've asked for help in few programming communities, and I just go >My problem >What I tried to do >Can anyone help me? It's borderline impossible to expect anything besides a very technical answer to this. And usually that's how far 99% of interactions go. Unless you want to work directly on some language or something. But still, it should be doable. I don't think many contributors are friends who hang out with each other daily that they need to be compatible.

>>32324 I don't think you understand the modern SocJus tool's mind. Your sane position perfectly mirrors rms' and guess what reaction this got. The point is that CoC and similar stuff are the equivalent of planting flags in the ground, like playing a game of Risk. Why does it explicitely mention divisive stuff like "body positivity" or "gender identity and expression" instead of just saying "keep it technical"? Answer: because it wouldn't serve its real purpose, then; because if you comply with it, it doesn't matter that you agree with it, you implicitely aknowledge these positions as intellectually valid. Now waiting for the lefty banhammer to fall.

>>32325 Damn, forgot the file upload and the idiotic "spam" filter.

>>32325 >>32326 Well, I would say that RMS is in a differerent place since he's actually behind one of the biggest, if not the biggest, political movement when it comes to software. So he will have to deal with that sort of things one way or the other. But I can't say it impacts me that much if you I care about it. If I hate the 'x' license, I can just use a different license. Same applies to libraries and their licenses. You know, no one is really stopping me from using rust and adding nigger+ license to everything I write. I'm sure it would get some people mad on the rust team, but what can they do about it?

>>32325 If you think lainchan is a "lefty" website then maybe you're the one with a problem, not everyone else.

>>32325 >you implicitely aknowledge these positions as intellectually valid. that's all you, actually. What the flags really do is serve as a "not welcome" sign. It's like playing loud classical music because you're sick of your black customers. That's what I find so offensive about "inclusive" "safe space" language, it's in fact about making a non-political space hostile and exclusive of political enemies. People will even drop the mask and acknowledge that. There aren't daily discussions of how great some of Hitler's generals were on the V discord, but other communities openly worry that without sex pest Coraline Ada's CoC, all the nazis online will find their community to be the one place they can finally talk about such things. >>32328 >political if you're an environmentalist and you have an eco-PAC and you cry about bears and deer for 20 hours of the day because you can't sleep very well on your bed of fresh bark and pine leaves, that doesn't mean you want to get dragged into every other imaginable issue. This is a bad example because environmentalism is easily related to most big political issues, but say whether to rename a street to honor someone, or whether to add an official holiday, or what color to repaint the city's new indescribable public art, this is taking away from the bears.

>>32335 >that's all you, actually No, that's just how it looks from the outside (people "not caring" also fall into this case). Or a compromising weakling, which isn't much better, really.

>>32335 I usually don't like this social justice programming crap (changing master to main, ...) but the fact that CoCs actually work has really sold me on them. I and these people don't want people discussing nazi ideology in their programming language github. I want to keep politics out. Before reading your post I would've said anyone using a CoC is a bit stupid, but now I am considering putting one in some of my own projects. Can you give me an honest reason why I shouldn't given that: 1) I don't believe the same things you do. 2) I don't want to be a jannie for people talking about politics in places they shouldn't be. 3) These documents are effective at keeping troublemakers out without me having to put any effort in.

>>32355 >Not once has a "programming language" been a platform for Gnatzees Oh, right, sorry. There have never been instances of technical forums devolving into political flame wars. >You're a fuarrrking idiot finding excuses for pushing banal propaganda No, I want to get rid of idiots. If someone cares more about a text document than they do about the software, they weren't going to contribute anything of worth. It's like hanging corpses off your city walls. You might not like the smell of rotting flesh, but it keeps people in order. >rudeness, offtopic or personal attacks All things that a CoC bans. So logically the people who were doing these things are the ones who are the most affected by CoCs, and so the ones who will avoid projects with them. >propaganda Explain to me how asking people to be nice is propaganda. Show me the propaganda in https://gnu.tools/en/documents/social-contract/ (that isn't related to free software and copyleft).

>>32356 -> >>32325 The concepts of "gender" and the normalization of deviant "sexual orientations" are by definition subversive propaganda, as any broad overview of history (even recent, look at the previous generations in your country) shows these positions to not be spontaneous.

>>32357 I think what you don't like about these documents is that they clarify your options. You can either be mature and work with people you don't like, or go somewhere else. There isn't a middle ground where you can insult them and openly despise their existence, yet still maintain a professional relationship with them. You also can't just expect people you don't like to erase themselves. If you call Janice from accounting a subversive deviant online and she sees it, you're going to have issues working at that company (even if you try to justify it by saying her existence is immoral). It's the same for any FOSS project. It seems more like a basic principal of decency that a person shouldn't make someone else feel bad because their preferences don't align.

>>32356 >No, I want to get rid of idiots. Unfortunately, you're retaining them with the CoC. >asking people to be nice is propaganda It's about framing and defining things. The concept of "gender" is inherently political, as it is a relatively new term (John Money in the late 1960's and on, etc. etc.) so now I can't "harass" you for your gender. What is harass? It is undefined. If you tell me you're a woman on the internet, I can believe, but I don't see what that has to do with maintaining a programming project. So, my options are to be forced to change how I, personally, respond to the way I percieve people (Despite the fact that I hold no negative feelings towards transgendered individuals outside of feeling pity and sorrow for them.) or I can get kicked out of the project that I clearly care about due to spending the last decade and a half on it. Oh and you asked about the gnu.tools social contract: >harassment-free Unfortunately, "harassment" lately can be interpreted to mean from the perspective of the "victim", anything can considered harassment. In fact, we used to make fun of this entire concept when I was a teenager. "Police officer, that man is harassing my dog!" while the lady's dog is barking at the man and the man is simply existing. >level of experience Even worse, this is here. This means that if you say "This code is not good because X, you should use Y instead of maybe we could look at Z as an complete alternative." -- The individual being spoken to might not take criticism well, in fact, it is fair to suggest that they probably do not take it well, because few people do and most people think it is a personal attack due to modern society requiring the individual to only convey a perception of perfection! What this means is that the main people on the project accepting/declining code will have to eventually make a decision when one of the more important people says "This could isn't as good as it could be" and then they have to decide if firing that "important person" is really a good idea or if they will make exceptions for the "important people"... Oh wait, guess what, this project decided, correctly, to keep him. Now this project has a hierarchy, and the leadership is the aristocrats. The code of conduct can only lead to ruination. Either by creating some super aristocracy where non-inner circle members are walking on egg shells and the inner circle members do pretty much whatever they want... or you create a situation where everyone is walking on egg shells, including the project leaders, and if at least one person is looking to "get people", then they will work hard to destroy the project. Either way. You are as short sighted as the rest of the CoC pushing individuals. >inb4 everything you said isn't possible Your rhetoricals aren't the important part here. We both know I'm right and it is only a matter of time before every (major) project that has adopted it, if it hasn't already, begun to crumble and crack. What is funny is if you actually read what I said, I'm setting up details here to correct these potential problems... But because this is a religion, and inherently political, I will not be heard.

>>32354 >CoCs actually work they work like the anti-tiger stone that I have works to keep tigers away. In the comment you reply to, it's noted that V lacks all of this Nazi discussion despite having a 'CoC' of "Be nice and respectful."

>>32356 >No, I want to get rid of idiots. If someone cares more about a text document than they do about the software, they weren't going to contribute anything of worth. this is a pretty good argument for not having a CoC, thanks. I can say exactly this to anyone proposing that one would be important, or have any use, or that they will refuse to contribute if I don't add one. >Flood detected; Post discarded. ok, see you in another few years, lainchan.

Can we please stop talking about cocks and get back to the point of this thread?

>>32312 >no longer a scam Stopped reading right there...

isn't this just go but with less blatant stupid decisions?

>>24345 >its a pretty language every time someone says this, it's a language that looks like spaghetti for any real world code. polite sage for off topic

>>32469 Go was at least designed by people with prior experience with both CS fundamentals and designing languages. It was a stupid design but they knew what they were capable of and they did exactly what they set out to do. The V guy was running on pure confidence and only made a mess. I'm not convinced he has changed.

>>24757 Eyy, qorg, you still there? I miss your site kill-9.xyz. What happened? Did you an hero?