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what IDE/Editor do you guys use? for shell config editing i sometimes use nano but for everything else pretty much i use Geany. what do pro1337 haxors use?

Neovim for anything that doesn't require a full ide like Java/kotlin. I use intellij for those. I usually just install a language plugin for neovim and then auto complete for Coc.vim if it's available.

>>18264 In what sense does java need a full IDE?

>>18263 Vim and only vim >>18264 Not bad lainon

>>18263 VSCode

>>18266 I might sound like an asshole, because I bet Java works for you very well. What is the biggest program you wrote in it?

emacs, but I need only lisp, latex and occasionally perl or c...

My most often used programming tools vim + grep + awk + cscope + gcc + git >>18264 Last time I did Java was years ago and vim was sufficient. So what do you mean by it requiring full ide?

>>18271 nothing big, I'm genuinely curious. Wouldn't clever text completion just do the job? I do realize tests and the such are comfy. What are some features you use a lot?

>>18271 Not OP, but I personally use neovim and have used it for a rather large Java project as well (a compiler based off of Java). I personally much prefer using it over getting a Jetbrains IDE, although I can see why people would prefer the latter. I'm just really comfortable using vim.

>>18277 All the auto completions I tried for Java were pretty lackluster compared to intellij/eclipse. Especially if you use some build framework like Gradle it makes it difficult for auto completions to find the classes you import. I just use the vim mode since it's pretty good and do Gradle builds from the terminal. I also get the ultimate edition from my uni for free.

>>18279 To add more about the features I use. The one I use frequently would be rename functions/variables, code generation and the integrated debugger.

neovim for everything. i try to keep my plugins to a minimum, but i do use neosnippets and deoplete, plus pencil for writing latex. i'm was initially not entirely happy with the lack of integration with reference documentation, but i've recently found that there is usually a readily available compatibility plugin that will e.g. change the shift+k man page lookup to something more appropriate based on the file type (like `help(whatever)` for python), and usually make some other sane configuration changes. there are still plenty of things that don't work exactly how i'd want them too, but over time i'm sure i'll work most of that out. does anyone know what's the best way to have neovim crawl back through includes to find definitions for syntax highlighting and to let you easily jump to function definitions and stuff? i know its possible to do this within your own code with ctags but this doesn't necessarily work in every other language and i'm a bit hesitant to set up a cron job or something to regularly build a tags file from my /usr/include directory.

I am using doom-emacs. I try to use it for everything. >>18272 Where would you say that Emacs is lacking?That is if you think that Emacs is missing anything important?

>>18263 Hey OP can you post that whole code? Anyway I use Neovim with the Qt gui but am trying to transition to terminal only with tmux.

>>18283 Yeah sure #include <iostream> #include <fstream> //file manipulation library #include <complex> //complex number library using namespace std; float width = 500; //sets parameters for image size float height = 500; int value (int x, int y) { //calls 2d coordinate variables complex<float> point((float)x/width-1.5, (float)y/height-0.5); complex<float> z(0, 0); int Num_Intgr = 0; // calls integer as zero while (abs (z) < 2 && Num_Intgr <= 20) { //defines parameters of mandelbrot set z = z * z + point; // defines complex number equasion Num_Intgr++; // increases integer value by 1 } if (Num_Intgr < 20) // checks if left operand is less than right if yes then true return (255*Num_Intgr)/20; // else return 0; } int main () { ofstream my_Image ("mandelbrot.ppm"); //defines filename for image if (my_Image.is_open ()) { //writes blank red ppm image file out as an image my_Image << "P3\n" << width << " " << height << " 255\n"; //left operands r moved by number of bits given by the right operand for (int i = 0; i < width; i++) { for (int j = 0; j < height; j++) { int val = value(i, j); my_Image << val << ' ' << 0 << ' ' << 0 << "\n"; } } my_Image.close(); } else cout << "Could not open the file"; return 0; }

>>18263 I've been a long time emacs user, then I found out about spacemacs, and I must say it's a pretty good experience. Spacemacs is a pre-configured emacs, with preconfigured packages designed to integrate well with each other. VScode has some pretty nice features (especially git integration, also liveshare is pretty unique), but, well, it's still microsoft thing.

I use a very bare bones emacs, only a few plugins for essential things but not majorly changed, I feel as it comes it's good enough for me, also yes I am a white mode degenerate, I find it nice and inviting, I personally don't dig this new make everything dark trend, but that's just me. I feel as it comes I can get around just fine both for personal projects and work stuff, which considering how messy our codebase is, emacs handles it amazingly. Ironically enough I don't use org mode that much tho, I'm more of a fan of rst for general documentation. Pictured is a small program I made to try to read and write csv's with common lisp, no libraries. Next I want to have it plugged to telnet so I can shove it online and see what kind of disaster happens lol.

i use vim at work a lot. i write a lot of golang and i like vs code for that honestly.

>>18283 >tmux map the command leader key thing to ctrl+j instead of ctrl+b if you haven't already. you will definitely thank me later.

>>18296 I've mapped it to C-SPC. Much easier and faster.

>>18290 I see you fell for mememinalism. That doesn't work with emacs. You're not getting the full power. Just use vim. You'll benefit more from it.

I use neovim with ncm2, however I have an allergy for plugin managers, git is enough for me with the following simple shell function to bulk update: gitpull() { cd $1 git pull echo $1 } gitup() { DIR=${1:-.} for dir in $(ls $DIR); do Dir=$DIR/$dir if [[ -e $Dir/.git ]]; then gitpull $Dir & fi done wait } >>18302 Why? vim is not minimal emacs, there are lots of solutions for that as jove, mg, zile to name a few.

>>18281 ctags does the job for me, maybe i'm not understanding you? universal-ctags and ctrl-] jumps to every func definition.

>>18322 I just don't know how people usually manage ctags. Do you have it run automatically whenever you install a new library or do you just do it manually when you need it?

emacs, except when working with scala, where I use intellij. I was quite a happy ensime+emacs user, but I needed a refresher every time i used it, cause ensime was so odd and I just didnt use it enough, but one day this happed https://ensime.github.io/, and that metals crap crashes my emacs. I think once you wrap your head around the emacs way, its kinda hard to use any other thing. It just feels strange not being two key presses away from your system's source code. but I mainly like the ability to script and automate tasks. At work I always get the "boring" tasks, like we need to write a logger decorator and decorate this whole project so it does proper logging. Thats 10 lines of e-lisp, but a half week boring as fuarrrk task if done by hand. And when it comes to tooling, magit its pretty handy. The other neat feature, which I believe is available in other systems is org-mode. I pretty much do all my programming in org, where I keep notes, and just upload that as documentation, and tangle for production. I am a hybrid role, business analyst / developer, and its a great way to communicate and present reports to both technical and non technical people. if you have the chance, use org. anyways, some people here say that they like the emacs """minimal""" but I fully embrace it. Other than IDEs for my programming, I play roguel-ike, use kanban and other corporate red tape, I run a D&D campaign from emacs... dont do email tho, cause I want to go to tech-support when I have issues with that.

>>18323 >I just don't know how people usually manage ctags You are right. I don't manage them, vim-gutentags does it for me. I needed something to be 'plug and play' and since it was recommended in a lot of places i gave it a try, it works flawlessly almost always, and i'm sure that when it doesn't work it probably is my fault, for those moments ctags -R solves the issue.

spacemacs & emacs -nw

>>18263 I emacs everything. I just like my configuration way too much that I navigate through my files and get to refactor in the most simple to the most complex manner possible.

Visual Studio for serious projects and Sublime Text for smaller things.

Emacs. My preferred programming languages are Perl, Scheme, Common Lisp and C

>>18263 Vim with tmux.

>>18344 what does tmux add that vim's window system doesn't have? I'm curious

I am much more productive since i discovered VSCode SSH mode. I can

>>18347 not him but for languages with a REPL/interpreter it's nice to have a shell running on the side. i also personally find it easier to do some file operations in a shell instead of with vim's ! command. i don't use tmux for this though because i have a tiling window manager so it's sort of redundant.

plain vanilla vi(m) (code is only text after all)

>>18274 vim + sed + gcc + git

>>18347 >what does tmux add that vim's window system doesn't have? I'm curious deataching from terminal device?

I use Emacs by default, but recently have been trying to use IntelliJ for Android Development, and I feel so unproductive. The only thing that helps me is vim emulation, because otherwise I'd keep on uses Emacs keybindings. But the recent discussions on Emacs future have made me kind of sad, with so many people claiming it's obsolete (because of VSCode).

>>18263 Iintellij IDEA for both Java and Rust. Works really well imo and I don't see any reason to change my IDE for something different

>>18363 >But the recent discussions on Emacs future have made me kind of sad, with so many people claiming it's obsolete (because of VSCode). Who's making those claims? I don't think that vim or emacs are going anywhere in the near future.

>>18373 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23107123

>>18357 key combos that I already have memorized

There is only one editor.

>>18373 Of course I disagree, I think that Emacsen and vi-clones will outlive VSCode by a long margin, but this kind of talk scares those away who are learning/want to learn, because they are lead to believe that it's not worth learning a tool.

>>18378 i've seen lots and lots of people talking about vscode recently. any idea what is so appealing about it? it seems to be converting people who aren't even using visual studio. is it just another editor in the atom/sublime tradition that techie software dev types get hyped about every couple years?

>>18382 >is it just another editor in the atom/sublime tradition that techie software dev types get hyped about every couple years? That's exactly what it is, the only reason why it's being mentioned currently is because github is trying to push it hard onto people and they're trying to make it more integrated.

>>18382 Sane defaults out of the box, lots of plugins, and works well with a lot of languages. I've used it in the past, since it integrated well with the workflow of my old team (i.e. we were all using the same linter / auto-indent tools, so pull requests weren't full of diffs just based on indentation differences). Also, it has a decent vim mode, so I was happy. Trying to transition to Doom Emacs now, started because of org-mode, but I'm actually growing fond of it for regular programming. Still, the debugger is not as nice as the one in VSCode (I'm running pdb on a terminal window). Any good Emacs debug packages out there?

I wrote my own editor in C with no external dependencies.

>>18386 What data sructs and algos for holding lines/files? Zipper and allocation of mem in chunks?

>>18377 zoophilia/10

>>18394 It's nothing sexual. We only pray to the golden GNU.

>>18384 >Any good Emacs debug packages out there? I haven't tried it, but realgud I've seen been recommemded.

I learned vim and used to do all my editing needs in it. Then I found vis https://github.com/martanne/vis. I had been using it for the last 1-2 years, but sadly I never learned to use it to its full potential. I still don't understand sam :( Right now I did a fresh install and I'm veering away from "minimalism". Until now, my editing environment was just vis (or vim with no plugins and a really short vimrc) + shell in a tiling wm or tmux. I just installed emacs+spacemacs and I'm figuring it out to see if I like it. Also, when I'm programming with other people (college friends, competitive programming practice) I use Sublime Text. I can't expect my friends adapt themselves to my way of editing. Also also I've used intellij when I have assignments in fuarrrking fuarrrk Java fuarrrk. I hate it, it's slow as soykaf, but I can't be assed to figure out a way to organize my code in a project that can actually be imported in intellij for grading. Maybe it's just me being dumb tho.

>>18263 Xamarin for ASP.Net Web Android Studio for Mobile Programming Notepad++ for pretty much everything else

Aaaaaaatom

>>18377 This is impressively high quality artistry for being GNU fan-art.

>>18400 >vim with no plugins and a really short vimrc Your missing out on some useful features. I use vim but CtrlP, NEERDtree, Tagbar, ctags is the minimum I need to use it confortably. >Also, when I'm programming with other people (college friends, competitive programming practice) I use Sublime Text. I can't expect my friends adapt themselves to my way of editing. What the fuarrrk that have to do with anything? Are you using the same machine in the same time to program? The editor generate a text file, you can all use different editors and collaborate on the same project.

>>18422 >I use vim but CtrlP, NEERDtree, Tagbar, ctags is the minimum I need to use it confortably. O_O I worled in kernel development and I was fine with just vim and scope. And thats several millions SLOC.

>>18422 >Your missing out on some useful features. I use vim but CtrlP, NEERDtree, Tagbar, ctags is the minimum I need to use it confortably. See >>18424 You can really manage with little in vim. For me, if I started adding plugins left and right, it would just start to resemble spacemacs so I just cut the middle step. >What the fuarrrk that have to do with anything? Are you using the same machine in the same time to program? Yes, that's the point of competitive programming. A problem set, one computer and three people trying to beat every other team in 5hrs.

>>18419 That's because I'm not a fool and actually know how to draw and paint. https://decent-userna.me/php/galleries.php

>>18426 Hands up, I'm taking all of your pepes. Loved reading through land of lisp, neat to find drawings based on it years later.

>>18424 >O_O I worled in kernel development and I was fine with just vim and scope I'm not saying NO here, I just said that he is missing on a lot of good features that make your life easier (I forget to mention easymotion btw.). All those plugins are to make my work more enjoyable. Hell, if I had to I could use purely him but why? I could even use the old vi but that would be painful as it lacks a lot of features that vim have (I sometimes use it to modify some scripts on the fly on machines that don't have vim installed).

>>18440 I've always considered vim to be somewhat "feature complete" if that means anything. And I was always far from using it's full power. If I needed any somewhat specific operation on text I could usually compose it from primitives and use a macro. Granted, I never really had to do big projects nor did I have too many files opened. But I mever really found it lacking for somewhat small complete projects consisting of a few (upto 10 or 15) C files, of which I usually needed but 3 at most plus perhaps a couple header files at once.

>>18400 vis looks cool, i'll probably end up switching to it in a few years if its still around and improving. if i switched to vis right now i'd have to write a bunch of lua to get it to be a comfortable enough replacement for vim, but i've been moving more towards writing my own scripts for simple extensions and unix power user soykaf instead of relying on repo packages and plugins, so it's definitely on my radar for when i get better at doing that. also, does vis have block selection? i use it all the time in vim for doing stuff like commenting out blocks of code.

>>18451 >also, does vis have block selection? i use it all the time in vim for doing stuff like commenting out blocks of code. Vis has multiple cursor support that far better than anything that has been hacked into vim. Select a region and then call :x/^, that should insert a cursor on every line.

>>18451 Really this >>18455, never in my life have I been so at home with multiple cursors. Worth noting that those seem to be inspired by kakoune, another editor I gave a chance a while ago. It looks pretty cool, but it does depart from vim-way of doing keybindings in an annoyingly weird way (similar enough for it to feel like you know how to use it, different enough to hit yourself in the toe frequently because you actually don't know how to use it.) Also, vis is frickin fast and efficient. I don't know how do they do it, I haven't been bothered to look at the source, but damn. Once I needed to do some modifications on a 200MB CSV dataset (something I could have done with sed if I wasn't completely dumb). Vim shat its pants. Sublime slowed down to a crawl. Gedit crashed. Vis didn't even flinch. Amazing editor. fuarrrk spacemacs, I'm going back.

>>18363 >But the recent discussions on Emacs future have made me kind of sad, with so many people claiming it's obsolete (because of VSCode). I want to stress that the supposed unpopularity of Emacs may be caused by a selection bias. People willing to bend over for large corporations are probably more likely to trust Microsoft and use VSCode, having Github accounts, and pretend to program by copying and pasting from StackOverflow while also participating in its surveys. My point is it's not surprising that Emacs users would be underrepresented in polls, especially when one considers so many poll websites nowadays either run directly on megacorporation infrastructure or use some other garbage JavaScript. As a recent example of this, I happen to be the only one who helped someone organizing a community poll; everyone on Reddit was content to discuss how awesome it would be and leave it at that. I don't use Reddit, to clarify. Anyway, when the poll was finished, I learned it was running directly from Google, and I still tried to participate, but it required JavaScript, so I didn't participate and I didn't tell anyone I knew about it, and I told the organizer as much. So in conclusion, I don't think anything of these polls. These people live in a bubble and, like moths to a flame, will coalesce around whatever's brightest in the immediate area. If someone can't imagine programming without Github or StackOverflow, short circuit to disregarding the opinions.

>>18463 As far as I remember, their trick is to use memory mapping so that they don't have to load the entire file when it's opened. Something along those lines is discussed here: https://github.com/martanne/vis/wiki/FAQ#why-did-you-write-it-in-c, but I'm not sure how up-to-date it is. Either way, it's what vim should have been. Not a failed attempt at doing what Emacs does better, but an actual improvement on vi. >>18474 It makes sense, knowing/participating in Stackoverflow polls probably isn't and using a editor stochastically independent factors, but I don't think this argument helps that much, even if it's true.

>>18474 This I don't participate in polls, becauce it's on bs javascript infested websites.

>>18263 I just started using Lazarus https://www.lazarus-ide.org Ive used vim, geany and emacs in the past - - I'll use vim if I'm in a shell, but have no love for it and gave up on emacs after forcing myself to use it for a year at work. I just found it was a hindrance more than a help. I've dabbled with micro and howl and a few other niche editors but haven't really found a "home" in terms of an editor. Using lazarus for the form editor mostly, otherwise I'd probably get by with Geany

I've been in love with Vim for a long time now, but I only recently learned how to actually use it for Java development. I started using eclim (http://eclim.org/) a few months ago, and it's been amazing. Eclim provides an interface for vim to speak to a headless eclipse server. It provides all the stuff you need, like autocompletion, for methods that you just don't want to/can't remember. I still think it's actually quite bloated, which I'm not a fan of, but it's a good start to ditch the GUI, which I hated. And don't get me started on vim emulation... Uni has been forcing me to use Visual Studio for the past 2 months and I can't stand it. I'm amazed by how people can use it. Not to mention the 2GB(!) I had to download for it. That's insane for something I want to edit text with, no more (maybe autocompletion and syntax highlighting). It's been driving me crazy how the solution system works, the compiler, vim emulation (which is pretty much just remapped keys), it's slow and resource hungry, etc. I'll be really happy once I can quit using it. >>18400 vis seems really cool. I wanted to learn more about it today, but so far the only upsides I see is a smaller code base and bulk editing of already existing text. Since I rarely do the latter idk if it's really worth getting into. >I still don't understand sam :( me neither :( >>18422 >NERDtree I never understood the apppeal of NERDtree. What is it that you do with NERDtree that netrw can't do? Whenever I want to go looking for a file in a visual file explorer in vim, i call :e %:h to be in the folder of the file I'm editing and I'm good from there. >>18455 >Vis has multiple cursor support that far better than anything that has been hacked into vim. Why is it that people like multiple cursors so much? I'm doing just fine with vim's visual block. I don't think I've ever been craving multiple cursors when using vim. >>18475 >As far as I remember, their trick is to use memory mapping so that they don't have to load the entire file when it's opened. That's really nice to know. I read a bit about how it does that and it's quite interesting. Thanks lainon!

That feel when no Sam or ACME users so far ITT.

BTW while it's nice that editor may open and work on huge single files (I tested opening 900MB file in vim) - it's in most cases a pain in a butt to work with such files in that manner and batch approach with use of sed or awk makes more sense.

>>18263 For programming and LaTeXing files, I use emacs. I tend to disagree with many people that say the default keybindings are unintuitive/difficult (but I've also been using it for like three years now. The biggest game changer was making caps lock CTRL). I love how easy it is to extend the editor, and I recently made scripts that automatically compile a LaTeX project I'm working on when a file changes (basically make + inotifywait). It's amazing how a five line bash script can save my hands from carpal tunnel. emacs's magit mode is also immensely helpful in helping me work through merge conflicts. That, and using emacsclient has made starting up an emacs instance a non-issue for me (despite having a ton of elisp in my configurations).

>>18489 >Uni has been forcing me to use Visual Studio That's violence. >vis seems really cool. I wanted to learn more about it today, but so far the only upsides I see is a smaller code base and bulk editing of already existing text. Since I rarely do the latter idk if it's really worth getting into. Well, the learning curve if you come from vim is almost non-existent. Granted, I'm not a "power user" or whatever you wanna call it, but the only time something I tried to do didn't work was :s/foo/bar/g, and the editor was kind enough to tell me that I should use :x/foo/ c/bar/ instead. >Why is it that people like multiple cursors so much? I'm doing just fine with vim's visual block. I don't think I've ever been craving multiple cursors when using vim. Intuitiveness imo. Whatever you enter, it just happens. Not only that, you see it happening, it's interactive. You can do something and then just do whatever else in the same selection and everything just works as you expect it to, without fingers breakdancing across the keyboard. Of course, I do not see it as an essential feature, but in some situations I do miss multiple cursors. >>18490 Lain, I tried, I really tried, but I'm just dense and need someone to give me a hand. Sometimes you just need to output some code from your brain into a file and you stop caring.

>>18489 >Uni has been forcing me to use Visual Studio Hahaha, what a little bitch you are. Tell them either free software or gtfo.

>>18377 I want thelat png

>>18506 *that

>>18351 How pretentious is it to use vim if you only do light editing on it? I really like some of the functions.

>>18509 Not at all, just use whatever is the most comfortable to you.

>>18493 > default keybindings are unintuitive/difficult One thing I have found is that people tend to conflate intuitiveness/difficulty with familiarity. emacs is just different to other software, so people tend to take that as hard, but they are just unfamiliar. I myself use default keybindings, which by the way are default because they are the default in most unix programs like bash. I just learnt those 7 years ago, and I have been happy since. There is nothing wrong with changing them if you have other commands you are more comfortable with, THAT is one of the reasons to use emacs.

>>18506 >>18507 There you go.

>>18509 That's pretty much all it's good for to be honest. But seriously, there's nothing wrong with that. Even though I'm a full time Emacs user, I prefer to use vi in the terminal. >>18523 This. I have enabled Emacs keybindings in GTK apps, and that also helps.

>>18490 Well I'm not a full time user of either, but they are among my favorites. I like Acme way more than emacs. Actually I'm just stuck to emacs because APL and Lisp (Common Lisp, not ELisp), but it also makes more sense to use acme in it's native environment, which is plan9, this due to the file interface on plan9. Granted, I haven't tried how that is emulated in my unix system, I guess poorly. On the other hand, there are things that I do find annoying. First, I can't move around using just the keyboardm except in a very limited way. I do get that the mouse is faster for random access, but when I need to move down a line or two, or back a few words, or delete the last word I typed, I really hate to take my hand off the keyboard. They say I need a thinkpad with a clit mouse but I can't afford thst just now (and I live in the middle of nowhere, I need to go to the city to find one in the first place). Then is the issue with the 3-button mouse. I don't have one. As for sam. It's sort of the same. Structured regexes are fancy. I think it's a great iterarion on regular expressions (Which should be requisite knowledge for every computer user), but honestly I haven't found myself needing them. Then again, I really really don't do much. And sam's primary interface is... well just a notepad for the file and the command area on top. Kinda like using ed, though ed seems better jntegrated with it's environment (bare text), So I prefer vis. Vis I think has the best from both worlds. Modulo the pretty face and file interface of acme. >>18509 call me a pretentious cunt then (Bitch I might be), but I like knowing that I have the ability to do magic even if I usually just type and do a few on-spot corrections (mostly on typos).

>>18509 I'd say that's one of Vim's strengths. Open up a config file, change something quickly :wq You're done by the time a good chunk of editors would have finished launching.

>>18529 > They say I need a thinkpad with a clit mouse but I can't afford thst just now (and I live in the middle of nowhere, I need to go to the city to find one in the first place). I have one, getting used to using the mouse for jumping around is still hard. Especially for small stuff like moving up or down a few lines, but I guess that could be easily patched.

I use a rather bloated Neovim setup, realistically all I need is gutentags and ale.

>>18542 i've noticed that my clit mouse has made me avoid using an actual mouse when i'm on a desktop. like my reach-for-mouse muscle memory is totally gone. >>18543 neosnips + deoplete is super nice. i use it extensively for LaTeX and html because they're so verbose.

>>18490 i have arrived, the acme user. not for little edits to stuff that i happen across in my terminal, but full projects or whatever i toss into acme. acme ROCKS!

>>18544 Thanks for telling me about neosnips, I'm definitely going to use it over UltiSnips

>>18544 >i've noticed that my clit mouse has made me avoid using an actual mouse when i'm on a desktop. like my reach-for-mouse muscle memory is totally gone. I'm actually using an external thinkpad keyboard, because it has the clit.

>>18556 OK, than now tell me do you really think that text editing needs use of pointing device? I tried using acme and sam a decade ago but was thrown away by need of mouse usage. But I switched to a trackball since, so maybe I would give it 2nd chance.

>>18566 make yourself a present and get a trackball

>>18568 Not lain, but can you suggest a few good models?

Nano for scripts, Emacs for everything else. But I want to make my own. Right now I'm learning ncurses for that reason.

>>18393 I literally just read all the text into an array.

>>18272 >>18282 >>18290 >>18335 >>18333 >>18324 >>18343 >>18377 >>18571 I use emacs with vim

IntelliJ with vi-mode OSSCode with vi-mode neovim

>>18534 Yeah that's also something I appreciate a lot. I do a lot of document-wide regex replacements and formatting so for me it's perfect. I don't really know if Vim is inferior to things like VSCode when it comes to full fledged programming but at this point I find it more convenient to do everything by entering commands, I doubt I'll ever go back. It pretty much changed the way I use text editors from the ground up.

>>18569 visit a trackball thread on >>>/Ω/

>>18622 If you ever need to use VSCode, there's a plugin for vim keybindings. Not as smooth as Vim, but works well enough.

I have never used Vim or Emacs. I intend to learn one of them. I have come to the conclusion that Emacs is superior to Vim. I can use TRAMP to SSH. If I want Vim keybindings, I can use evil-mode. I can also make Emacs startup instantly by running it as a server. I went though the Emacs tutorials. I plan to watch a tutorial series on Emacs too. But I am still completely lost in Emacs. I tried out Spacemacs, and it confused me even more. When using Spacemacs, I did not know what keybindings were default and what packages were additions. So I intend to learn vanilla Emacs, and make my own configuration. What is the best way of learning Emacs? I so overwhelmed by Emacs.

>>18728 >What is the best way of learning Emacs? I so overwhelmed by Emacs. see >>7270

>>18728 Ctrl-h , then t will open a tutorial. Start with stock emacs, and add packages one at a time as you find things that you want in your editor.

>>18728 C-h v --> describe variable (type in the variable name after invoking the function) C-h f --> describe function (type in the function name after invoking the function) C-h k --> describe key (type in the keyboard shortcut after invoking the function) M-x --> call the specified function (type in the function name after invoking M-x)

>>18263 Just Vim most of the time, with some plugins. I used to like Atom and then used VSCode for a while, as it's just a kind of preconfigured Atom, but I tried to set up Vim to develop big projects and it just worked. When I move from computers I just bring my .vimrc with me so it works nicely. The exception is Java. I use Intellij now, but I wanted to to get into Eclipse, never used it. What you lainons think about Eclipse? >>18349 You can use :term to get a shell inside vim, or you could easily make a shortcut.

>>18728 For basic editing, your really only have to learn how to cut (M-w), copy (M-w) and to paste (C-y). Switching buffers is basically just C-x b, and C-x C-b for an overview. Window managment is C-x o to switch focus, C-x {1,2,3,0} to change the layout. Searching is C-s. The rest is just like whatever you're used to (arrow keys, home/end, mouse operations, etc.). M-x is the main keybinding to invoke all other commands, that maniputate buffers or modes. I think the best is to get used to these basic differences first, understand the few core concepts, and then think about how you can improve. How to select what you want to select. How to jump wherever you want to go, in a buffer and between. Familiarize yourself with basic modes (c-mode, lisp-mode, ada-mode, or whatever you use) and subsystems (dired for directory manipulation, compile, occur, whatever else). Casually browsing the Emacs manual should suffice for that, whenever you're bored. With these basics, you should be able to understand Emacs a lot better, and the initial investment should start to show first returns. Basic understanding of the help and the customisation system will ensure that you're independent, and don't rely on shadey bloggers and youtube videos from 2013. Whenever you're ready look at what packages might interest you. But avoid rushing into it, since some packages might confuse you or your current workflow. Always try to understand everything you use, then you should be on the safe side. >>18742 The "modern" alternative to C-h v and C-h f is C-h o, that summarizes all information if can find for a symbol in one help page.

Featherpad and I run in terminal.

>>18772 basically this, I started using emacs and vim like 13 years ago and rarely bother to use any other functions of editor than copy, paste, search, save, open, swich window.

turns out I really like using Vim with splits and running just about everything directly in it. What am I going to miss out on if I switch to Emacs?

>>18769 Last time I used it, Eclipse is strictly worse than intellij, and slower besides. >>18263 Mostly neovim. For some languages I want very specific static analysis that would take too much work to set up in vim and use a different editor (with vi mode) Typescript, Rust -> OSS Code Java, Kotlin -> IntelliJ

>>18796 Emacs can do everything vim can and more. Sounds like you want to use your editor for as much as possible. If so I have good news for you about emacs.

intelliJ for when I'm working, mostly for scala sublime at home for working on my python scripts/any other programming needs

>>18796 Pretty much this: >>18872 If you're piling up vim with plugins to do things besides text editting, might as well use Emacs with evil mode. Try Doom Emacs, you might like it.

>>18567 I'm back but the answer is it's probably not required but it's certainly not detrimental. Momentarily grabbing your mouse doesn't take that long when you're typing, and half of the time when I'm editing I'm using my laptop anyway, so I just use the keyboard shortcuts for 2/3 click with a trackpad and it's fluid imo. The mouse is the least important part for me. The way everything seamlessly interacts with itself and with your scripts is far more central as far as I'm concerned, and the mouse is more of a curiosity that takes a hot minute to get used to. Ngl once you're using keyboard shortcuts to simulate middle/right clicks like I already am on my laptop, the mouse is effectively just being used as a pointing device, and a mouse is unambiguously better for that purpose than a keyboard imo.

>>18876 >>18796 I'm gonna do it, I'm going to try Emacs

>>18963 >Momentarily grabbing your mouse doesn't take that long when you're typing for a lot of people the issue isn't the time it takes to move your hand to your mouse, it's the break in workflow and focus that is distracting. if your fingers are on your homerow and you nead to reach over and find your mouse, the disruption in focus for that is the annoying part. if you're not bothered by this, congratulations on your good fortune. if you are, it is like kicking dead whales down the beach

>>19380 Sometimes I feel like it's more than the break in workflow caused by a mouse. With keyboard shortcuts in Emacs or Vim, I can be extremely specific in what I want. If I want to delete the third line down, I can do it without needing to watch the cursor move to the line. I just need to know where I am and the buttons to get to where I need to be and do what I want. This is efficient, but also very satisfying. Seeing a change you want to make, keying in the sequence to change it, and observing the result is very enjoyable, like returning a type writer back or snapping a square of chocolate from a bar.

>>18728 Read the info pages. C-h i Accept that you don't need to understand all of Emacs to use it. Also, ake sure you have all info pages that come with a standard Emacs install. Debian puts them in the non-free repository. >The EmacsManual and other free manuals licensed under the GnuFreeDocumentationLicense that exercies the Invariant Section provisions have been deemed unfree by Debian and others. https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsManualLicense Yes, the irony is immense.

I use notepad++ on windows and vim on linux

hi snacks

>>18769 >The exception is Java. I use Intellij now, but I wanted to to get into Eclipse, never used it. What you lainons think about Eclipse? I prefer Eclipse over everything else. I've also used Netbeans and Intellij. Why choose Eclipse? -Save actions: I can't live without this honestly. It makes all local variables and method args final, remove unnecessary casts, fix formatting and indenetation, removes unused imports, add missing braces on if blocks, etc. -Maven support: Best maven pom editor of the three. You can autocomplete almost everything in the pom.xml editor. It will scan maven central and autocomplete names, version, configuration elements with documentation. Hoverdocs on anything. Command click into source on anything. -Git integration: Again, better than the other two options. Eclipse supports signed commits and partial file commits. Last I looked the other two cannot do this. It's far more intuitive and easier to visually fix merge conflicts. -Plugins: Spotbugs, Sonarlint, decompilers, bash editor, pydev, there's quite a lot of useful plugins. There's more reasons I prefer Eclipse, but it's essential for me. Using the other Java IDEs feels crippling to me.

Neovim + dein.vim + coc.nvim + language servers for C/C++ and Haskell it's enough for my hobbyist tinkering occasionally i add a custom command to the init.vim to let me auto-build the project with one key

>Nano >Vim >VS Codium Really depends on what I'm writing; quick soykaf is in Nano, longer (but still easy) soykaf is in Vim, then Codium is for larger projects.

VS for C++ Vim for anything else

>>18728 I'm a weirdo, knowing vim made it easier for me to get to learn emacs, in that I only needed to setup evil mode and from there I could basically learn everything else incrementally in a need-to-use basis, if you catch my drift, in a sense I get the feel that emacs is suposed to be configured that way, little by little.

I mostly just edit configs, do webshit, and write shell scripts, so neovim with coc.nvim is good enough for me.

>>18528 Most Emacs keybindings also work on the command line, little known fact. Anything using readline I believe uses that. I tried switching to vi keybindings in the terminal (fidling with "set -o vi" in a shell startup file, if anyone is interested) but oh surprise the Emacs keybindings are faster for me.

>>19674 >little known fact It think they have their own headlines in the manual. >work on the command line I don't think they'd work in the classical Microsoft-popularized style of command lines like cmd.exe, kd of windbg, or MS-DOS. >faster for me How much effort did you spent learning the vi settings? I learned only the vi-style bindings so far. I use both modes and use vi line editing when I feel it'd make a better fit. >>18263 I use OpenBSD base. I find for a project the size of its kernel it can be sufficient indeed.

Nice to see that I'm not the only one who uses Geany, or at least used to. Nowadays I'm trying to do the Vim meme as part of my efforts to be console-only when in GNU/Linux, in the mean time I'm still going back to Geany or Notepad++ for when I need to do thorough editing while I'm still learning the ropes in Vim.

>>19548 I wasn't aware Codium was an option, I use Code at work because work but don't want to use it at home, Codium looks like a good compromise.

>>19684 >part of my efforts to be console-only when in GNU/Linux absolutely not worth it, for it's own sake. it's good to know what to do when necessary, but limiting oneself to console-only is just a pure meme.

VIM suits me so well I don't feel the urge to try other editirs anymore. Tried VSC out of curiosity and didn't like if at all.

>>19740 I agree, you need firefox sometimes.

>>19740 >>19745 It was more like an exercise to see how far I can go rather than properly going console-only; my biggest hurdle so far has been trying to play video "correctly" instead of rendering it through the console. As for browsing the web, I don't stray very far from the usual big five or six sites everyone goes on and this place, so I was considering writing a small text-only browser so that I could keep going to those places, but I dropped the idea after becoming disillusioned with most of those sites and no longer seeing the effort to write a browser for them as worth it.

>>18289 same but with spacevim for me

>>18263 recently switched from neovim to emacs + evil purely because of better plugins.

>>19761 You can use MPlayer to play video from console, it renders directly to the frame buffer

>>18263 Vim but I'm tempted to see if emacs is worth the hype

>>19839 it's worth the hype if you're chasing an integrated computing environment like how Acme on plan 9 is. any of it's other meme features are just extra. trying to use it like vim (just for editing, just from the terminal) is viable but if that's all you want, stick with vim.

>>19839 > 45 years old editor written in Lisp at MIT > hype

>>19863 It's ok lain, maybe someone will be hyped about you, too, when you're 45.

>>18263 obee + gcc + ghc

>>18384 VSCode also works really well for whoever is on windows with its WSL integration.

>>18263 I used Emacs+Evil in the past, mostly for personal projects. Now I'm working and I am using Code (the open source VSCode) because of a newbie Linux colleague and a comfy Git integration, plus NVim/Vim when working on the server. Jupyter also is cool for messing around with ideas, the notebook form makes it easy to run ringle blocks of codes "saving" previous steps, in Machine Learning is a godsend not having to rerun networks everytime to debug.

>>20491 Talking about comfy git integration, did you ever tried magit in emacs? I recently started using it and it's amazing.

I use neovim, but I think there's something slowing it down at startup >>18348 oh soykaf a sni

emacs-gtk3 for main IDE joe for quickly editing files in terminal, sometimes vim

atom

>>20535 I used atom for a while, it's nice but such a bloated resource hog.

I use Geany for my python scripts

>>20538 I tried Geany once, and the experience was so horrible that I realized I had to learn a proper editor.

>>20545 I like geany because it's easy to set up. Setting up your environment is the hardest part of programming. VS code is super customizable, but I don't understand how to do it well and too lazy to learn.

Any notepad++ IDE out there? I want one so bad, almost to the point of making it

>>20570 what do you mean? like a plugin? i'm pretty sure you can set up notepad++ to hook external commands for compilation and whatnot.

>>20571 but it doesn't come with the editor (I think) and its not stable

>>20572 what doesn't come with the editor? i'm almost certain you can have the editor compile software for you (although i haven't used it in years so i could be wrong i guess). if you want other IDE stuff like snippets and tags and syntax highlighting for languages it doesn't do by default you'll need to install plugins though.

acme

doom emacs

>>18542 >but I guess that could be easily patched A sufficiently patched acme will turn to resemble emacs.

>>20685 i recently started playing around with doom emacs and it might just be the emacs package that gets me to switch from nvim

VSCode + vim for LaTeX and python Clion for C, student license is free

Emacs with a giant config My current hobby project is yet another gimmicky text editor that is nowhere near bootstrapping

>>19375 are you enjoying it?

>>20756 I fess I haven't done much on it except configuration, but I'm getting by with Evil and which-key. Thing is... Every time I want to do something in Emacs I start reading and time passes, so in the end I do it in Vim. I know I'm learning a whole suite of programs, but Emacs has made me appreciate how easy and natural to learn Vim is.

Notepad++

>>18263 I use emacs now, I didn't believe the hype at first, but after you fix the keybindings I genuinely think it's one of the most impressive pieces of software ever created. Before that I'd use vim for small edits and projects, and an IDE for anything bigger.

>>18263 Been using vim as of this year, and loving every second of it! I'm kinda interested in learning emacs also, but it's too ugly looking. Idk. just like the thought of having a whole OS as my text editor.

I gave up on emacs. I'd rather have one editor with two good plugins for what it's missing and a couple good pieces of actual software on the side than one crappy do-it-all with semi-unmaintained high school projects tacked on. The keybindings and commands are the most counter-intuitive pieces of crap I've ever had to deal with. If there's an entirely different plugin and you load it in a window that has several buffers it loads by default in one of these buffers. Why would anybody ever want that? Nothing is sane about it. Maybe another day I will give it another chance, but unless someone shows me the next level workflow that you're supposed to achieve with emacs then I'll stay on vim.

>>18264 Based but a pain to get working with Haskell

>>20959 >If there's an entirely different plugin and you load it in a window that has several buffers it loads by default in one of these buffers. Why would anybody ever want that? wat? Could you give an example?

On Linux: Vim, MonoDevelop, Wing IDE. On Windows: Visual Studio, Sublime Text, LINQPad (more of a scratchpad than an IDE but pretty good). Android Studio and NetBeans rarely.

>>18263 vis for most things, using custom LUA plugins to add support for the languages I care about. Blessed be the language server protocol, it makes it pretty easy to do. That being said anything that has vi-like keybinds is good enough.

Just neovim. Basically all I need is autocomplete and fuzzy search (Ctrl+P plugin) and i'm good

Kakoune. Pretty much default. I am not a programmer, apart from occasional tweaks here and there, and mostly use it for dotfiles and scripting.

>>21013 Are your plugins hosted somewhere we can get access to? Tried searching but it didn't throw any results.

>>18324 Very close to my own experience. Especially the part about getting used to your OS or main interface's source-code being only a few keybinds away at most. I started using Emacs because it has a decent editor that's extensible and it's in Lisp (yes that was why I tried). Then I found dired which is simply more powerful than any other file manager I had tried before, and that's before one even realizes they can extend it at a whim too (it does have image thumbnails builtin in vanilla, though I modified the program it uses so it works on videos too). These days I do most of my computing inside Emacs (save browsing & irc). Still doing irc outside of Emacs mainly because I don't feel like implementing proxy support myself. I can do most things I want in Emacs, from code-editing to controlling a music player to managing my torrent daemon. TRAMP makes remote work on my servers trivial. Eshell is pretty fun. And if something doesn't work just like I want it to, I can usually easily patch it so that it does. As for language support, LSP[1] has suddenly made things a lot better than before. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_Server_Protocol

Vi all the way. Actually Vim but only because of the extra features, such as macros and minor stuff such as line numbering that plain vi lacks. Also vim is the only one in the family with GUI support, which honestly looks nicer than through xterm, and means I can have it show unicode graphs with ease (xterm, they say, or uxrvt also support unicode, but I only care to use them in the editor so simply getting gvim is the path of least effort). If I am not using X (rarely these days), vi, neovim, vis, and vim all work for me, only that plain vi is kind of annoying when I am already used to some features. I don't care at all about VimL and pointless plugins, I use it to edit text. That said, I have tried Emacs but never really liked it. Only for SLIME and paredit, tuough I never got proficient at that. I troed acme but I really really don't like chasing things around with the mouse. I like to keep my hands on the keyboard because I do a lot of moving around and taking my hand all the way to the mouse each time is annoying. If I want to jump to an arbitrary part of text I can usually do it very quickly if I have line numbering, making the mouse useless. Emacs is probably great for languages with a repl, especially lisp. But for writing C and assembly and shell scripts I have found vi to be ,ore than sufficient. I believe I have an optimal workflow for my needs.