Solo/loner development

Which fields are best for being a developer that just wants to minimise human interaction? I have been learning for years, and have a masters, but I still have never managed to apply for a job. This is because I don't think I can handle working IRL with people; I will hate it due to social anxiety and my general desire to be alone. Even remote work can be fraught with video chats etc. I understand nothing may be perfect. What is the best field to pursue? If I have to, i'll spend a few years working on it to prove that I'm competent, although I don't want to rely on becoming genius-level at something. I have a background in mathematics, physics, AI but it seems fairly useless

>>17922 A one-person team built Listen Notes. https://www.listennotes.com/about/

>>17923 so webdev then

Web dev in a mega corp is pretty good for this. I thought freelancing would be better at one point, but dealing directly with clients is a billion times worse than corporate bureaucracy. If you're good, you should be able to find a manager able to shield you from almost all human interactions. Software teams in large orgs are Byzantian structures of product owners, managers, project managers, secretaries, voices of customers, consultants...etc all of these create distance between the developer and other people, so you often only have to deal with a single person who says "X wants feature Y". You build feature Y. Feedback winds through the layers and appears like other feature requests. This game of telephone creates horribly vague requirements so the software you build will probably end up being fuarrrking awful, but this doesn't seem to matter for some reason. If you become valuable enough, you can set terms e.g. work remote, skip all meetings, communicate only through email.

>>17925 not him but what's freelancing like with nobody around? lonely? I want to know since I plan on doing it for a while

>>17928 it works on your machine, but it dont work on client's machine, he has some weird security policy which prevents program from saving logs, so you must debug through teamviewer

>>17922 I believe unethical hacking is the best field that has minimal human interaction

>>18129 How should one enter such a field?

>>18301 Apply here: https://www.cia.gov/careers (^:

>>18301 First learn hacking, plenty of resources here in other threads and on cyber security sites, learn to use the tools and gain experience on how to attack sites. Then ditch away your ethics, being willing to expose yourself to serious punishment if you get caught for profit.

>>17922 With enough abstraction, people are just like the machines you seem so good at. You just need exposure and experience to understand them and a ton of patience. If you are really sure about that, research jobs at university usually will keep you isolated and mostly isolated apart from the occasional lecture or public presentation.

>>18321 wait, are you mistaking hacking with cracking?

>>18469 unethical hacking is cracking

>>18470 That's the point I was making

>>18321 Would you mind mentioning a couple of these cyper security sites? I know handholding is frowned upon, but there's so much content to sift through in the catalog, I've already spent hours in book threads looking for reviews of each individual book to check whether it was worth downloading it, in an attempt to avoid just collecting tons of material I'll never read. Still, throughout this entire process, I can't recall coming across links to other websites other than 2 forums and slashdot, and I suppose forums require some basic knowledge already. I'm aware understanding things like networks and OSs is a no brainer before wanting to get into sec, but it still would be nice to have a list of places to look up when the time is right. I've been trying to compile resources and download what I can so I don't have to bother looking for more stuff in a while and just study what I have.

Listen lainon, a lot of people in CS and other tech related industries make money they don't deserve because they have basic social skills with 0 talent or knowledge about tech. And people like you who don't trust themselves force companies to hire these leeches. Every day, i'm baffled by the sheer lack of meritocracy and injustice in my industry. We need people like you among us. You don't have to like social interactions, but they're not as bad as you think they are. They just are. You're simply vibrating your vocal chords to communicate, and there isn't an ideal way to do it other than the way you already do. Please reconsider, and trust yourself.

Two conflicting ideas: 1. Social One is that you need people, or in general people need people in order to accomplish something. A social group is necessary in order to complete a process, perform units of work, organize around a goal. You need other brains to refine things and optimize a process. 2. Asocial BUT when you look at how things work people don't actually, well, ever need people. Everyone's doing their own thing which in most cases is doing next to nothing. Even when working at the same thing they are compartmentalized to extreme degrees, specialized into their own little cubicle performing their own little units of work, they are one little atom in the paint on the canvas of the bigger picture. And they choose this for themselves! 1. Social But then on the other hand an actual demand, a demand by other persons, of you to provide work - is what separates meaningful human work and aimless busywork. If we're to be atomized and disregard other individual humans then we can disregard the society altogether and become islands, excercise existence in futility then wither away. At this point we're surrendering our basic survival then? 3. Society So I might not be the only one here having conflicting arguments on how to approach this. It seems to me that society is comprised of people that desire to be atomized, compartmentalized, and live their individual lives all separated from society. But why? Is it because society is the "other" in their minds, separated from their experience? Has society come to a point where its members have convinced themselves that they need to distance themselves from it? 4. Decision If majority of people believe in radical individualism and desire to distance themselves from society even though society is practically the essence of humanity - it follows that this majority of people is looking to dehumanize themselves and risk survival. This is a dysfunctional and pretty much insane approach to take, and it seems to be caused by laziness - it's always easier to give up than deal with people. I think I'll go with NR1. Confusingly, major parts of society is looking to become asocial and in such a climate there is great opportunity to exert energy in social endeavors. 5. Solo software development I needed to make this post in order to crystalize the arguments primarily for myself but they could also help OP - OP you will find what you think you need, which is fulfillment of this desire to be alone. Personally I obviously find your and society's idea that we should all be alone dysfunctional and think that going the opposite direction is wiser - but to each their own. This thread will likely exist for at least a couple of years from now and I like to think in that time I'll come back and give an update on whether my approach was correct, ie has it yielded good results.

>>17922 I see a few options: 1. Aim low, and build a niche product that people want, that you can run as a one-lainon-band. 2. Work on Free Software stuff, where you can communicate over mailing lists and bugtrackers instead of in real-time. 3. Even a small increase in the amount of face-to-face stuff you're willing to handle would give you a massive increase in your options. You could use #2 as a way to take your first steps in this direction.

Not OP, but while I don't have crippling social anxiety I can surely understand the feeling, although in my case it would probably be best described as a dislike for corporate thinking. For example, I'm doing requirements engineering in uni and I absolutely hate this soykaf, it's not only boring, it's annoying. Most of it is at best a waste of time and at worst that plus disgusting amounts of "client dick sucking". Sure, I understand where a company is coming from when they talk about these things, but this need to create a thousand different methods of doing the same thing just so some HR whore can pretend like she knows soykaf and pointlessly make us waste time riles the soykaf out of me. "The first phase of X is done by blablabla" "The second phase is done in a S P I R A L!! <3<3 Always checking with the client to ensure they approve it! A-L-W-A-Y-S!!!" YOU CAN SUCK MY fuarrrkING DICK, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

>>18785 I dipped my toes in advertising and this kind of crap made me nauseous. It was worse than my customer service job. I hate modernity so much, I just want to be an artisan and make shoes or whatever the fuarrrk people actually need.

>>18785 Speaking as someone who's been working in the IT industry for 10 years now, requirements are a crucial point of our day to day work and I fuarrrking hate having to work with socially inept nerds who think the job is only about coding. Granted, the language might be a bit overblown but pay attention and learn because nobody in the industry excels from being a "good coder" - people excel because of their interpersonal skills. Back to OP's question, honestly I don't think you can get a job that doesn't require talking to people, I'd suggest you get over that soykaf real quick because social anxiety is a problem and a disability, and you should confront it and get better. It's an illness and you should fix that instead of trying to skirt around it for the rest of your life. I have a bit of social anxiety too, I have a very debilitating phobia of needles, and I wish I didn't have them, but I'm a grown up and I understand that I need to deal with them because a) I can't live in a society without speaking to people and b) I can't avoid the doctor forever. Moreover, as someone who's currently working with a software architect who's definitely an autist, it's a pain in the ass to work with people who can't communicate well and it'll get you fired constantly.

>>18800 >hating two-faced corporate soykaftery is an illness You are unironically the reason why the world is garbage

>>18800 > I hate autists so just cure your autism bro If you hate working with people like me then dont tell me to go torture more people. Those people that you can't stand working with can't help who they are.

>>18800 >interpersonal skills Could you give some practical 101?

>>18800 >people excel because of their interpersonal skills If by "excel" you mean "climb the corporate ladder by sucking up to middle managers", then sure, interpersonal skills are the key to excellence. If, however, by "excel" you mean "not be a highly replaceable code monkey", then technical acumen, learning ability and capacity for logical reasoning is how you excel. Finding the right questions to ask and imagining possible scenarios is (often) more important in getting requirements than buttering up your interlocutor.

>>18827 Communicate proactively. When you're talking to someone, try to have some empathy about their needs/their point of view. Try to praise people as often as you criticise them. Soft skills like that aren't any easier than hard skills like learning a programming language, so it's understandable if it takes you a long time to master them. Just like with learning a programming language, the key to communicating well is practice.

>>18827 nta but here is how a few example of things helping me to be accepted/liked in the workplace and outside as a very-socially-anxious-needle-fearing nerd : - Humor is a powerful and versatile tool. It sounds pompous but it is a very effective skill to bound with peoples, defuse tense situations, and make yourself likeable in general. This is also very easy to fuarrrk it up so you have to be very careful about what kind of people your "public" is made from. A safe bet is to discard any kind of bold offensive or edgelord humor unless you really, really know what you're doing, and not being "on" 100% of the time. Somehow it's also a good way to get to know people more, you have to observe them and learn from them to know what will make them laugh. Also watched people failing at it sadly help. Definitely the social skill I rely on the most to get away being a weirdo - Keeping my mouth shut for things I disliked that couldn't be changed : Some people can't be changed, and it's better to suck it up rather than bring even more tension - A good sense of responsibilities is a must have. Nerds will give you a pass for a lot of things if you're not a total jerk, but nobody like a total slacker - Being helpful to your team or colleagues for things they struggle with; Being a doormat isn't needed, just accepting learning is done through repetition, and being patient - Saying "hello", "goodbye", "please", "thanks". Not so obvious from what I experienced, but it's the kind of little things that can give you a bad rep pretty quickly. Just dropping "hello everyone" or waving hands ca be enough I'm pretty sure working on your own, to get back to the OP, require a lot more social skills than working as an employee. There is no middleman to sign deals and get the contract you will work on. The pricing has to be enforced, you have to convince, argue and refuse propositions from clients all the time, and out of necessity.

>>18800 You read one of those self improvement shallow books and believed it huh? People like you sicken me. You are the definition of a failed normal person that goes through life playing-pretend. You can only get so far licking soles and not without losing all of your dignity and you seem to be ok, or even happy about it. Even a NPC has authenticity on them, you're just a fake, punk.

>>18827 >>18831 and >>18834 are very good advice. Other things to do: Greet people when you become aware of them, ideally with eye contact and a smile(it's hard but if you have a reputation for being autistic or anxious people will appreciate the effort). Ask people how they're doing when you're both just sitting there doing nothing, carefully monitor their response. If it is more than a simple restrained "fine" then you should engage in small talk. When engaging in small talk or conversation, very carefully monitor when you are expected to say something and what you are expected to say, missing a cue or speaking out of turn can throw off the rhythm and make people uncomfortable. When listening to someone say something, politely nod your head, try to make eye contact, make little noises and facial expressions to show that you're reacting to what they're saying, and respond with questions, even when you don't give a soykaf about anything they're saying. People just like to know that someone is listening to them. These are simple protocols that require little to no thinking, just practice and self control. Many people appreciate an eccentric autist who has figured out the basics of social interaction, and will forgive you for being confused or lost when you are out of your depth. One thing I like to do to break the ice is to engage in wordplay. Even something as simple as a funny spoonerism or a long string of consonance can make people giggle.

>>19212 Grow up and stop glorifying your inability to interact with people.

>>18777 Most errors are in your Decision stage. >If majority of people believe in radical individualism and desire to distance themselves from society even though society is practically the essence of humanity Even conservative people who believe in society over individual prefer to distance themselves from society. Megasociety is not society, because there is no unity, nobody has anything in common, there's no uniting factor other than that we are stuck together. Megasociety is dehumanizing. >risk survival no such thing in the Western world. You can survive pretty well even living out from a campervan in the middle of nowhere. And many make even more money solo-sailing all year round than sitting in a cubicle. >This is a dysfunctional and pretty much insane approach to take No >caused by laziness - it's always easier to give up than deal with people Again the opposite is true. The easy way is to go thorough college, get your cubicle job and to repay your debts over 10 years like everyone else. The daily routine within megasociety is an automatism, everything is geared towards it. meanwhile going another way is hindered by laws, difficult bureaucracy and people not knowing what to do with your special case. Freelancing requires more work, especially since you ahve no structure supporting or guiding you. Living for yourself in a log hut in the wild is also more difficult than pretending to work during your time at megacorp. Lazy is who stays in his cubicle- although, of course, it's not a bad thing to do. The easier way rarely is the worse way. > Confusingly, major parts of society is looking to become asocial and in such a climate there is great opportunity to exert energy in social endeavors It's not confusing. Social endeavours are in its core psychopathic and exploitative. You confuse asocial people with actual social people who refuse to take part in teh charade of Megasociety.

>>20274 define mega society and not mega society 1 billion han chinese seem unified

>>20274 >the Western world. I hate this phrasing, because it implies there's an eastern world. You're lumping together Japan, India, Afganistan, Russia and Singapore, even though none of them have anything in common.

>>20287 But the western world has many things in common

>>20299 Kind of, but not as much as you'd think. The US, Brazil, Cuba and Hungary are all western nations, yet they're all worlds apart.

>>20287 The idea is that the Western world is one build on basis of Christianity. The Eastern world, however, doesn't follow it, which is true when you realize that Asian countries hardly care about Christianity compared to their own religion. Obviously, Christianity in the west is not as big now as it once was, but it was big when they defined "western and eastern world".

>>20287 >I hate this phrasing, because it implies there's an eastern world It doesn't need to imply that.

>>20287 It's also lumping together the United States, Switzerland, and Finland. Which are also very different.

Yeah and west of who? I live in the pacific ocean and this east west stuff means nothing.

>>20969 >west of who West of the the Ural Mountains but north of the Caucasus Mountains, the Black Ses and the Mediterranean Sea, plus everything west of the Atlantic Ocean up until but not including Asia, plus 'straya.and kiwis, minus a few random islands here and there probably.

>>20970 If you ever left kentucky you would realize how stupid that model is.

I know this may not be the right thread to ask, but, does anyone have experience getting an actual programming job? All I can get are web dev jobs, which I hate, not because I don't like web development, but because I hate php frameworks, and I'm not allowed to write my own code.

>>20977 It's not a model of anything; it's an approximately correct statement about the geographical positions of countries usually considered to be part of western civilization. Also, if you think >>20970 is stupid, consider that it is answering >>20969, who thought an inane "west of who" etymological argument was a relevant objection to anything.

>>20980 I have one experience. I just sent my resume to as many places as i could and several months later one accepted me. I don't know if that's not very helpful, but that's all i've got.

>>20307 >>20653 the western world is western europe plus its descendants, not the western part of the map. Unified by liberty and human rights over authoritarianism, or at least in theory

>>21070 This is true, but what ties those western european countries together is what the others stated. The west, in effect, is what was stated - by chance, and by choice.

>>21070 Can we take absurd claims and post them instead in /hum/?

>>21070 Liberté, égalité, fraternité! https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/france-facts/symbols-of-the-republic/article/liberty-equality-fraternity A legacy from the bloody French Revolution... Modern France is in its 5th Republic (since 1958) and counting. :/