Never Have I Ever

Ok Lainon's, in this thread we admit our deepest darkest dirtiest programming secrets. That's right, triple D's. What are you most ashamed of? I have used Linux in many flavors for over ten years... I have never written a script.

i write everything in C. not because i'm some hardcore system programmer, but because i can't for the life of me figure out how to use classes properly.

I miss Atari BASIC and catch myself writing programs for it in my head as I walk places.

I still do not know how to use single IDE as I only work on small demos or PoC for my own pleasure.

Never have I ever pushed a repo to github. I also use windows because I'm too lazy to figure out how to set up xorg and nvidia for my laptop.

>>8824 classes are glorified structs say you have typedef struct person { int age; char* name; } person; void person_birthday(person* p) { p->age++; } then you call it like this person* dave = person_new(24, "Dave"); person_birthday(dave); assert(dave->age == 25); person_free(dave); instead of that, with a class you write it like this person* dave = new person(24, "Dave") dave.birthday(); assert(dave->age == 25); delete dave; The code for the definitions is similar to the first code snippet, except instead of taking an argument called person* p and using p, you remove that argument and use the this keyword instead.

I developed a distro suited to my needs, which is installed in 4 or 5 different laptops. Currently I'm posting from my windows 10 gaming pc

I've programmed in 10s of languages, but I'm not a programmer. >>8828 Run a live CD? You wont have to worry about xorg until you are comfortable to, or you may find you don't need to for a distro you choose.

65% of my programs are just a bunch of if statements

I've never felt the need to delve deep into vim or try emacs. Navigating with just keys seems to cumbersome to me. I just use sublime with add-ons.

>>8829 yeah i understand them on that level. i "know" c++ in theory. it's just that every time i use them it turns into a fuarrrking mess of unnecessary abstract classes and virtual methods and polymorphism and.... just give me structs and opaque object design pls :| i admit this is just me being a bad programmer. that's the point of the thread after all

In 10 years i never made a commit to any project that was not controlled by me.

I've never been able to properly understand any code which I didn't write

>>8833 Vim has mouse support too. Quite nice imo, and navigating within a line using e, w, f, b, etc.. is quite nice.

>>8825 I can relate to this, not same lang but I won't mention which one

>>8832 are you me, lainon?

>>8852 Turtle graphics? Garry Kitchen's Game Maker?

>>8822 Most of the projects I start I don't really have a good reason to do other than "I think it's cool". Example: >I'm making something that processes images with this library I found >Oh cool. Why? >Iunno Like, motivation isn't really an issue, I just have a hard time justifying *why* I'm working on a particular personal project over another.

I spend more time setting up my environment to be productive than actually being productive

>>8886 I used to to this. It was like a rabbit hole. I'd grab Arch cus I wanted to be minimalist, set it up, set up dwm just the way I wanted it, set up whatever language I wanted to use, set up vim with scripts just the way I wanted it, and then read programming books into the third chapter and end up watching anime. It might be partly maturity, but I think just settling with a distro that works pretty much out of the box lends itself to being more productive. Like I had a wicked dwm setup that I still have saved in dropbox but it has no use for actual programming. Now I use Ubuntu and Fedora and I will probably never look back seeing all the projects I have completed all the way through. Along with all the packages and libraries that can be scooped up with just a click. I didn't see the value in the "top" distros until I saw so many programmers using them. I had to think about why they used them until someone pointed it out that the less time you spend setting something up, the more time you have actually programming. Arch taught me some valuable lessons about the Linux environment that I will never forget though. I still use the arch wiki from time to time. So many nights wasted on color schemes...

>>8822 I've used computer since I was born, and was always a pretty fast typist, but I've never typed correctly in my entire life. My left hand is used just like a normal hand but my right hand chicken pecks

>>8835 That's nothing to be ashamed of.

>>8888 The fact you have ADHD isn't Arch's fault. I installed Arch, installed X11 and i3, installed a bunch of programs, learned i3 basics and am now extremely productive.

>>8919 Not once did I say it was Arch's fault. Yes, I do have ADHD. Having a minimalist system that you can do so many things to in order to make it "yours" does not lend itself to someone that can get lost in all those different things. A system that has what I need from the start allows me to concentrate on what matters. Why you took a defensive stance is beyond me. I never said arch was bad and in fact stated it benefited me.

I don't know exactly, so I am just going to tell a story of when I started programming php (I don't use php anymore). >Made an entire chat and hosted it. >Published in a forum so people could test. >Got hacked, my real name and the school where I studied got leaked by the script kiddie. >Started being paranoid with privacy since then. I think the vulnerability was in the cookies, not sure. I was 14.

I'm most ashamed of never finishing anything of my own. >>8921 >A system that has what I need from the start allows me to concentrate on what matters. A system that does things slightly differently than what I want leads to me spending hours trying to change that. So for me, the initial time investment for setting up Arch the way I wanted it to be really paid off, since I haven't changed much in years. Not the guy you were talking to btw.

I've been programming since I was 8 with BASIC, and never stopped, I'm actually pretty good at this point and I'm finishing up my degree in CS very soon. But in reality, I can't find a single side project that I am passionate in. Other than school assignments that I hated, I never had a single project that I actually completed, not even little ones. Most of the time I never even start on projects because I'm just too intimidated and feel like a complete idiot. I have so much of the technical knowledge and background on tech/programming that everyone around me kind of defers to me and assumes I know what the fuarrrk I'm doing. But I literally have no code to show for myself at all. I have no idea how to motivate myself to work on programming projects when they all seem like such useless pointless toys. Even things that I think would be real projects, I just can't be motivated for because they would literally only be me creating them for money. All this despite the fact that I spend all day reading programming books, with no other obligations. I hate myself for feeling this way.

the other day I seeded rand with malloc because I didn't feeling like including time.h

I suck at automating anything, or even keeping some basic housekeeping in my OS, after about 4 years programming and being able to use lisp, C, and some others to some extent, I am struggling with turtle graphics. I used MS Word to arrange a bunch of pics in a page for a printer, I didn't even automated the download of the pics. Keep tuned for more

I keep getting errors that my boot partition is completely full on Void, and I have just been ignoring it. Instead of cleaning it up I just delete a couple older versions of the kernel each time I update it to free up a few mb. Then everytime I install updates it redownloads all the old versions of the kernel I deleted. So instead of fixing the problem I've just stopped downloading updates entirely because I'm too lazy to fix it and too dumb to know what to do, and the computer hasn't stopped working yet so I just keep telling myself not to worry about it.

After four years of school and two years of being a software engineer, I hate programming

>>8824 Unironically Read SICP. It treats OO well by having you implement it.

>>8962 Dont hate programming, hate school. I always hated what got shoved down my throat. Its why i am a neet, but atleast i have some passion in my life. You need to find something that you are excited about having but also working on, then maybe you get your joy of programming back. Also glad to see im not the only programmer who does some fuarrrked up soykaf here.

>>8822 I started a bunch of projects just to leave them when I hit a roadblock. I come back to those projects just to write a few lines then slack off until I decide to switch to another project or play vidya. I can't seem to create medium to large sized programs

I know just enough of multiple languages to have an idea what is going on and yet I don't ever write my own code because I have no imagination for such things. I prefer messing with someone else's code and stealing from stackoverflow >>8825 I know that feel, I miss Qbasic and AppleBASIC, as it is what I taught myself with one of my friends in middle school. >>8833 I always found both to be a giant waste of time and less productive than a more traditional style editor with syntax highlighting. I learned both but it takes me orders of magnitude longer to do simple tasks compared to a simple text editor even notepad.exe is better. >>8834 Just learn C instead, I did and do not regret it. I learned enough C++ to know that it is a mess and does not get any better the more you learn. >>8957 People consider me old fashioned because I do not automate anything. Sure it might take longer manually but at least it gets done right without wasting hours trying to debug code. >>8958 For this reason I have always questioned the sanity of having a separate boot partition. I dont even separate root and /home because I view it as a bunch of restrictive nonsense that serves no purpose. Oh yeah, I actually prefer Windows XP over Linux for most tasks, although I can use both at an equal level. Maybe I am just an idiot doing everything wrong, who knows.

Despite doing a lot of infosec projects, I have no idea how most shell code work.

Whenever I make myself notes, a schedule, or comments in code, I write GOTO instead of TODO.

I create bloatware for a living. A day without adding unnecessary features to the application is a day wasted.

>>8868 nothing wrong with that. that's the best reason.

>>8976 It's kind of an art unto itself.

I haven't programmed anything in a year. I've been so busy

I have been using linux for 10 years and yesterday I learned that mysqladmin exists

>>8822 I mix C and sepples code in the same project

>>8942 Get a job as soon as you are out of school. You'll find passion there, since milestones will be set for you, and you won't have to worry about setting them yourself. There is nothing wrong with this.

I have written software for a F500 which used my homemade cryptography library.

>>8822 Oh well. People call myself a programmer despite me never writing any code that's not an exercise from the internet. Besides, I can't even set up Ubuntu for C developing nor I know how to use the console. Plus this. >>8836

Never have I ever gave python application ability to call bash function through root to check if process ID is running because another python application would crash after 700 loops with memory error that I wasn't willing to fix so I simply bodged the whole thing

So I decided to quit my job, the one where they made me use an ugly inhouse programming language. Next, I went to this huge, flashy company and asked for a job. They told me I would again be working with an inhouse programming language and I was too much of a pussy to turn it down. Or maybe I wanted to make my parents proud or something. I don't know. Please kill me. I hear rumors that the managers here want to convert C++ to C# in some of their soykafty old programs and I am ready to get on my knees and beg for a chance to join those projects. Please god, please give me a chance.

When I was in school I thought that the reason I hadn't written any apps or contributed to open source was because I was a soykafty programmer. Now that I'm working I realize it's because I'm content, lack discipline, lack initiative. Good ol' basic personal issues. ... (And I'm still a soykafty programmer. That's just not what was holding me back.)

>>9300 Same except I'm a decent programmer and started college 3 years early. I haven't written a line of code in weeks and the only project I'm working on is unfinished indefinitely

>>9289 >I can't even set up Ubuntu for C developing what do you even need to do? surely gcc is installed by default, right?

>>9308 no it isn't, you need to apt-get install gcc first, or more typically apt-get install base-devel or whatever it's called

I have ADHD and the only time i feel completely relaxed and not hyperactive is sitting in front of my computer, listening to comfy music, programming, posting in chans and IRC's. ADHD is fuarrrked.

>>8965 >don't hate programming, hate school I hope I can adopt this view. I'm working and taking classes at the same time and the combination is draining my will to live. I become more cynical and jaded about technology every day. >>9277 >F500 I don't know if that's horrifying or hilarious.

>>8822 I am a selfish programmer, the only things I've programmed outside of work has been things that ease my workflow. Outside of that I've contributed very little to anything.

>>8868 >oh cool. why? >because it's cool you're doing things right lain.

>>8822 I abandoned an entire community of, shall we say "unsavory" power users right after an update that broke all the user scripting. Rather than face the music, just let them rage then fizzle out for years. Now I'm actively designing a complete rewrite that will piss off the few remaining diehards to perhaps replace them with new blood. Feels like I've been seduced by the dark side.

The only thing that really motivates me to work on a project is if other people care about it. If I post my progress online and no one seems to care, I'm convinced that there's no reason to work on it because nobody would use it if it was finished. Because of this, I tend to give up on most of my projects. The only ones I've ever finished are short-term ones where the basic functionality can be finished in one day and most of the kinks can be worked out over the rest of the week.

>>9547 used to be me too, until i realized more folks will try out a finished project with a bit of polish than yet another half completed thing online somewhere.

>>9526 Power users of what may I ask?

>>8923 I think the vulnerability is yourself I just found you again. Remember OPSEC anon 23

>>8937 >>8921 or just use manjaro architect and get the best of both worlds

>>10162 in your opinion, in what ways is it better than arch?

I'm just here for the aesthetic , don't know anything about programming.

Not sure if I'm ashamed, but... My company uses an old version of Perl for everything. We have probably a million man-hours of imperative style perl code. I discovered some scripts made by a guy that were beautiful, so I wrote a personal style guide based on it. I then wrote an improved style guide that makes all of my perl code look like Java. Everything is a class. All tests are done using an object-based test framework. I can now bang out Perl code lightning fast, but for the life of me I haven't got the patience to debug the dogsoykaf left by the other engineers. I'm now writing a tool to streamline debugging dogsoykaf perl code. Jesus fuarrrk, its awful.

>>10163 not really better, just less time consuming to get to the same result, an arch install with thet programs I need installed.

>have no idea on how to deal with a big project >can only program efficiently while high on Ritalin or Adderall

I've been around for a long time, and always make the wrong choices. Examples: "Virtualization? Sounds like a niche thing, I won't bother learning it." "I won't benefit much learning Java with its 'shove OO down your throat' design, I'll spend time learning C and Scheme instead - C because UNIX, and Scheme because I'll be a better programmer." "Windows is annoying, I'll just stop using it altogether for a couple decades. I'm sure I won't miss much, there's TONS of UNIX jobs out there." "Linux is getting further and further away from the UNIX philosophy, I'll focus on the BSDs instead." "Oh crap, my girlfriend's pregnant, there's no sysadmin jobs for UNIX guys around here, so I'll drive a truck for seven years. Surely that won't hurt my career too much." I went back to school and got my bachelor's in CS back in December. Guess how easy it was to find a job?

>>10201 >"I won't benefit much learning Java with its 'shove OO down your throat' design, I'll spend time learning C and Scheme instead - C because UNIX, and Scheme because I'll be a better programmer." >"Windows is annoying, I'll just stop using it altogether for a couple decades. I'm sure I won't miss much, there's TONS of UNIX jobs out there." These aren't particularly wrong depending on what you want to work on.

>>10203 There's not much exclusively UNIX/Linux work out there, and especially not in my area (I live in the great plains). Ignoring Windows hurt me pretty bad. And the lack of Java isn't necessarily bad, but given that more than half the jobs I see are C# jobs... I did start a new job last week, but it's maintaining machines that use code mostly written in BASIC. Like, actual BASIC, not Visual Basic. That's not exactly where I saw myself when I started school, but hey, it pays well enough.

>>10201 > Guess how easy it was to find a job? Unless you are dealing with other issues, the answer is "about as much work as writing a 25-page paper on a subject of your choosing". Your whole post carries with it that an oft-seen style that indicates that something totally unrelated to 'missing the e-boat' is at work here. I'm regularly depressed, never graduated high school (much less college), spent considerable time homeless, addicted to heroin, etc and I seem to be having an easier time of being a programmer than you. > "I won't benefit much learning Java with its 'shove OO down your throat' design, I'll spend time learning C and Scheme instead - C because UNIX, and Scheme because I'll be a better programmer." I've had people reach out to me through gh for having the answers to ch. 4 of SICP up. It stands to reason that if you seriously know Scheme you'll be twice as desirable. Everyhigh paying job here *demands* experience with a language like Scheme (even if a qualifier "like scheme" is more bluntly formulated as "is a hipster lang"). Unless you're doing android development or something genuinely incredible, Java exp. is a bad look. > "Linux is getting further and further away from the UNIX philosophy, I'll focus on the BSDs instead." Again dude, the highest paid guy I work with is a total Plan9 nut. He literally uses it for his main (at work he virtualizes in qemu). The fact that you've been typing pkg_add all these years doesn't quite mesh with a lifetime of joblessness.

>>9526 That’s not how dialectics works.

>>10208 I'm guessing location could play a big part. I work remote at a job I moved to get, then transitioned to remote after a few years., and have no intention of moving again. I'm dreading having to find a job where I moved to. I know a few programmers in the area, and there are jobs, but it seem like everyone just works on c# business soykaf or insurance company websites. There aren't even many embedded consulting places that would give me a tolerable commute and could be potentially a little more entertaining.

>>10187 this is the experience of most small shop programmers no? working with the same tools the company always has and dealing with the culture that develops (for better or worse) around them.

>>8822 Never have i ever duplicated code for efficiency. i've only duplicated because java makes it so hard not to sometimes.

>>8868 Nothin wrong with that

>>8826 I can relate here. An IDE is overkill for the small stuff I work on.

>>8886 So I'm guessing EMACS.

>>8833 It feels really productive and ~empowering~ once you learn a few shortcuts though, after learning how to use Vim I cringe at the thought of taking my hands off the keyboard while typing soykaf It sure takes a while to learn it all and set up proper configurations though

Not really programming, but about 97% of all my Linux usage was with Ubuntu, after which I started using Manjaro after my friend told me it's like actual user-friendly Arch. Right now I'm only using a 160 GB HDD though, so my Linux programming setup is just Ubuntu WSL on Windows 10, with vim as an editor -- I find it better than most "Linux on Windows" alternatives, and I only have a Windows partition so I have more space for installing a game or two. My graphics thing is an old Intel thing so it's mostly incompatible with games on Linux and especially newer games that would require some OpenGL equivalent to DirectX 10 or 11.

>>8923 I wish I was one of those people who learned programming while very young and not after deciding to study computer science. Not the reason why I wish this, but maybe then I could have decided on a different area of study.

>>10384 I was one of those people who learned programming while very young and then i decided not to study computer science. I still ended up doing programming for money though.

>>10387 I wish I had learned programming before university. Everyone whom I heard has done so seems to be so far ahead in terms of not only programming knowledge but technical computer knowledge as well, while I constantly feel left behind and have a hell of a hard time. That's not to mention all the stories you hear of successful people in the software business or video games industry who always have a story to tell about how they started programming BASIC as kids or had an Apple ][ in the '80s or something.

>>10388 Thing is with those stories though, most of the time there's more to it than just "had an Apple II or C64 as a kid and programmed on it". For one, there's the fact that their parents even had enough disposable income to buy a computer in those days.

>>10389 >there's the fact that their parents even had enough disposable income to buy a computer in those days we can also extrapolate that the parents probably had some degree of computer-related knowledge if they bothered buying something like that for their kid. i think that's a big part of it too: having someone to ask if you have questions. i learned HTML when I was about 10 because my dad knew HTML. i didn't learn to program because nobody in my family knew how to program and they didn't want me fuarrrking around with our only computer.

>>8868 good

>>10393 I don't know, I started at age 7 mostly from books. My dad and his friend taught me a couple of beginner's things and then just read books. ...though yes, we were that family with a little disposable income and one parent who had some experience.

>>10405 fair enough. i certainly admire people who can teach themselves at such a young age.

>>8822 I've never learned how to program. I have no fuarrrking idea what I'm doing. I can sling code together and solve problems, and solve them quickly...for some reason I'm better at it than the other fuarrrking boneheads I work with, but I'm still ashamed at my lack of knowledge about how a computer really works. I failed at life in other jobs and I picked up "coding" out of sheer desperation. I am the worthless hack all of you purists constantly soykaf on.

>>8892 I don't type correctly either. I average around 85 wpm but I only use the left "Shift" key. All uses of Shift occur via the left hand. It really slows me down, I'm sure I could type much faster if I had correct technique but I can't be arsed to fix myself now, 28 years of typing wrongly is pretty difficult to unfuck.

>>10208 Yeah I don't know Java, don't know, C, don't know windows...don't know soykaf. I'm a "python programmer" who got a random ass job somewhere, now I'm writing a weird mix of .NET, vbscript, php...god knows what else...we have databases in 3 flavors of SQL, I don't know what the fuarrrk I'm doing, but somehow I have a job.

>>8834 Welcome to OO, it's a design flaw.

>>10211 My immediate impression as well. You can't just take a list-formatted plan and label it with the steps of the dialectic

I program almost exclusively in newlisp. I know it's flawed language with trollish name but it's just so fun and comfy it grew up as part of me. It helps I am not professional 'software engineer' but a layman who needs occasional scripting for data manipulation and basic utilities and ncurses based game clones .

>>8832 >65% of my programs are just a bunch of if statements Do functional programming and it will rise up to 80%

>>11106 What you said fits about most languages. I used lots of lisp(s) including newlisp and yeah its a comfy language actually, not all that different from most languages and the fact that its still around proves its actually something that works.

Made a discord bot on a raspberry pi. Crashed every 6 or so hours or some soykaf, couldn't figure out for the life of me why, so I just made a python script to run that python script and kill itself at boot. Sun Tzu once wrote a book called the art of bodge. Also the fact I used to use Global variables everywhere like 4 years ago when I wrote soykafty python code. I still hate myself for not knowing better implementation and misunderstanding scope lmfao

>Linux >never written a script How is that even possible? Why would you do that if you know bash commands?

>>8822 Sometimes, when I have to write a script, I use C++ because I always forgot the syntax of python/bash.

I program exclusively in lisps because I'm too stupid to understand more complex languages.

My first attempt at learning to program was age 17 C++, now at age 29, I have tried to learn, assembly, forth, python, Lua, perl, Javascript, ruby, haskell, and countless others. I still can't program, I know the concepts, I think I understand them, but I can't get from A to C, let alone Z. I can't do anything non-trivial. Now 11 years later, programming consumes my mind, but no eureka moment yet that let's me succeed.

>>8822 I don't actually do anything meaningful at my programming job. I just make it look like I do. It's not hard just do a lot of debugging and testing and file issues.

>>11273 I look a lot more busy than I am at work as well, but more so out of necessity. There's hardly enough work to do to keep me busy and the project I'm on suffers from 40+ minute build times after certain changes are made. >>11200 might just be imposter syndrome.

>>11200 It depends how hard you try to learn the language. The challenge is to stay motivated, but if you keep learning by reading books and practicing your kills, there should be no problem.

>>11200 I feel like the same and we are almost the same age. I have the understanding of concepts that even some friends that are programming professionally can't grasp but then my practical projects are all fuarrrked up or really simple. I seem unable to organize anything more complex than a simple script and that is really painful. I think I'm a programmer, then I feel I'm not. Even concentrating on the same project for days seems hard. I've tried to find people that would co-operate with me and that is what I find to be the most helpful thing I've had in my endeavors. Having others to talk about in a project makes me be more interested and less blocked. Take my suggestion and try this. I found that what I lack in practicality I make up with out-of-the-box solving solutions because I have delved in theory for so long. The leap is hard but it is doable, just keep going!

>>11286 I think you probably have an unrealistic view of professional programmers. Most of the programmers I work with, especially on the entry level, are not that great. It doesn't matter, because work gets broken down into sizes that are digestible to anyone familiar with the language and basic concepts.

>>11337 That's probably true given that I've never met professional programmers. I have expectations based on books and studying programming on my own, but I guess that work can be done with much less. I lack in practicality in programming, by diving too much on theory and having not trained the practical side, so when approaching problems I get stuck in things I've read about but I'm not ready to implement. Thanks for your post, it was kinda enlightening - in a strange way -. I guess I just need to try simpler things.

>>11339 You have to consider that books are often written by people with decades of experience and PhDs, often by people who teach the subject of their book professionally. E.g., professors at university or the people who offer classes at the professional level. Same goes for any other reasonable metric by which you might study programming. You're not going to study the average or the entry-level programmer. You're going to mostly study people who have been in the industry or in research for decades. And when you study programming, you don't see the research, debugging, whiteboard, or googling that lead to the results, you just see the results. You probably don't need to do simpler things, just focus on breaking down the complex things you want to do into smaller pieces.

How to Design Programs - read it.

>>11341 >breaking down the complex things you want to do into smaller pieces. that Is the essence of programming after all

I've started learning a functional language 2 or 3 times and just stopped.

>>11369 which one(s)? a substantial portion of my day job is automated using Excel.

>>10382 > after learning how to use Vim I cringe at the thought of taking my hands off the keyboard while typing soykaf Are you me?

>>11380 Scheme and Haskell

>>8833 the worst part about learning vim is watching other people use vim.

>>8822 I work for my company as a software engineer. I don't really know how to code. I am given a task, design a UI, do it any language I choose. It really just has to work. I don't even know what an abstraction is nor what OOP is. I only took basic mechanical engineering classes in school. Despite that I am highly respected, everyone is impressed and happy with what I do.

>>8822 I have given up on learning vim and/or emacs. I can't stand modal editing and emacs' keybinds are retarded and overly complex. I used a terminal text editor called micro that's basically just nano on steroids but it was buggy. I just switched back to Kate.

>>11438 That's a shame. I have seen a lot of people start with newer editors and be unable to switch to Vim and Emacs. I'm sure you can still get a lot done, just don't hate on guys who use those editors. I've seen that happen a lot.

once you get used to vim editing, you can never go back. Most of my keyboard shortcuts are vim-style these days in almost everything I use.

>>8834 >every time i use them it turns into a fuarrrking mess of unnecessary abstract classes and virtual methods and polymorphism I personally prefer C but write both C (mostly at my own projects) and C++ (mostly at work). Recently I started to see a pattern that my personal projects in C are more frequently finished then the ones written in C++. In work however it not a issue for me to write in C++. That made me wonder if the reason of that isn't my mind set. While making my private project I don't have a clear design vision and just hack the pieces of code I need at the moment. At work however I have a clear goal to reach (I exactly know what I need, either because it need to work with the existing code or because I have a documentation that describes it very well). I think this style of writing code on the go during my personal projects is biting my back more if I write C++ then C. C++ requires more a thoughtful approach during coding. It's that or the fact that I can't abandon my project at work as I do abandon my private projects and just keep on working on the project despie it having flaws. Maybe you have a similar problem?

I started computer science 7 years ago at age 21, never graduated or got a job (other than a research assistant position in the university, which I eventually kind of deserted), I've failed a ton of courses and am not even close to graduating, as I can't do much more than 2 or 3 courses at a time. I really want to get a job but I act too lazy and make my life too disorganized for me to make progress in university, even though I'm actually somewhat decent at programming and have a real interest in CS in general. I just procrastinate doing stuff I have to do until well beyond any time window of recovery, so to speak. What's "best" is that I used to have other creative veins and passions in life, like drawing, playing music, learning Japanese, or writing, but I have kinda given them up and become a lifeless drone that doesn't do anything he likes and yet still procrastinates his "duty" of studying CS stuff and doing assignments and whatnot. It also doesn't help that I moved to another city where I don't know anyone, so my friends with whom I had shared interests and whom I could see in a regular basis have become just "internet" friends, and are no longer part of my "real life". (I kinda inserted patches of text in random points in my post as thoughts came to my head, so sorry if it my post doesn't feel entirely structured and coherent) I also tend towards not sending my resume out to companies because I'm too afraid of being judged by my academic record, in terms of internships, and because I don't really have anything to show, in the case of full actual jobs. I live in a country where most of the top universities are public and free of any cost, and admission doesn't require a curriculum review, you just do a high school knowledge test and those with the top scores get in, I study in one of those (supposedly it ranks in the top 10 in Latin America), but for CS, since it doesn't have particularly high demand, the lowest admitted score in my entrance year was rather low. My family covers my living costs but yeah, they aren't happy about the time I've been taking in university. I reckon I probably should quit computer science, but then I feel like I'd be finally throwing in the bin all the time I spent trying to get through it. And I don't know what else to do with my life, either. I'm a pathetic human being, and I only haven't killed myself because I don't have the courage to face the potential pain or eventual feelings of desperation or regret once I actually try to do it. So that's my, uh, darkest, dirtiest, presumably somewhat programming-related secret.

I love my job doing software engineering, I hate the fact that it drains any desire for me to do it recreationally.

I call myself a programmer (and a hacker for some instances) before, even though I only know SQL injection, basic HTML, and some CSS

>>11485 Yeah I think you're right. I'm not a professional programmer so I was never forced to use C++ in that context. Maybe I just need to do more clear planning before I start each project. It's easy to rewrite a few functions or append things to a structure in C, but if I get the object structure wrong in C++ it can mean rewriting huge sections of code, potentially the entire project if it's a small one.

>>11498 stop masturbating and dont use the internet for a month

>>8956 >the other day I seeded rand with malloc because I didn't feeling like including time.h Oh god why, post snippet pls

>>11510 Possibly partly the overjustification effect. Super common in programming. I think it's also just the aspect of spending 8 hours a day doing one thing makes it less desirable to do it when you don't have to.

>>8832 >why not switch/cond

>>13182 > Why not match

>>8822 I use emacs and vim with key arrows and I don't care to learn movement shortcuts, I program slow and never felt the necessity to speed things up. I am not able to touch type, also.

I'm a member of Mensa but I struggle with learning Haskell

graduated with cs degree couldn't find an entry level developer job worked at data center under contract for 2 years didn't learn any transferable skills sitting around past 6 months wondering what to do haven't programmed anything in a worse position than before I went to school

>>13279 CS degrees only matter to HR to jack themselves off As someone who's dealt with a lot of recruits, that the vast majority of entry level people can't code, regardless of academic achievements So here's what you should do > don't aim for anything too prestigious (no C/C++, no asm, no microcontrollers) > learn a good language for a career (python, JavaScript, php, java) >build a simple project in whatever you want (again, nothing too prestigious, simple image uploader) >answer leetcode questions in whatever language you choose

>>13245 IQ doesn't mean much, I'm high IQ and have high IQ internet friends who are dumb retarded children. I struggle with basic soykaf like learning Spanish.

>>11498 Graduating is the easy part, you just need a B bro. Some unis even lower. Getting a 4.0 is the hard part. Like literal retards can get a degree, but it's actually comprehending and retaining what you learned that is the hard part.

For the longest time I used to write if (variable) { variable = false; } else { variable = true; } instead of variable = !variable;

>>8824 the only proper use of classes is not using them OOP is just a cargo cult t. embedded programmer who code in C

>>8822 >What are you most ashamed of? I write a lot of Excel/Access VBA in my day job.

>Maybe I am just an idiot doing everything wrong, who knows. Hey, we've all been there at some point. You can always get better. All it takes is lots of practice.

>>13315 American universities are notorious in first world countries because like half the people get A. Grading system is absurd, i dont know how anyone fails there

>>8822 I have used currying in production Java code.. something like Function<String<Function<Map<String,Integer>>> }

Never have I ever successfully installed gentoo. Posting from a windows 10 gaming PC too. >>8824 >i write everything in C. not because i'm some hardcore system programmer, but because i can't for the life of me figure out how to use classes properly. OOP is a tool for code reuse. It potentially beats having lots and lots of `if`s / `case`s where you manually write out every useful code path that a class MRO would take.

I give advice about things I have never experiences myself. I'm increasingly bad in giving specific advice and started to hand out general bullshit.

>>14823 > OOP is a tool for code reuse. A lot of people use it like that, yes, but it never has been or will ever be universally agreed upon. It is not for everyone. It never will be for all situation. One real-life example: > I do realize that Object Orientation is like kicking dead whales down the beach, so I tried to do libr API following some sane and basic OO concepts. > No inheritance source: https://github.com/radare/radare2/blob/master/doc/oo.md Also: > Why OO was popular? > Reason 2 - It was thought to make code reuse easier. > I see no evidence of 1 and 2. source: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming/why_oo_sucks > “Implementation inheritance causes the same intertwining and brittleness that have been observed when goto statements are overused. As a result, OO systems often suffer from complexity and lack of reuse.” – John Ousterhout Scripting, IEEE Computer, March 1998 > > Inheritance is more trouble than it’s worth. Under the doubtful disguise of the holy “code reuse” an insane amount of gratuitous complexity is added to our environment, which makes necessary industrial quantities of syntactical sugar to make the ensuing mess minimally manageable. > > Although reuse is a big win of object-oriented languages, it is also the case that these languages have extremely poor modularity properties with respect to class extension and modification. For example, it is easy to override a method that should not be overridden, or to reimplement a class in a way that causes problems in subclasses. (Luca Cardelli: Bad Engineering Properties of Object-Oriented Languages) source: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming/ Also, most adherence I've seen at accounts when employees code for a corporation (as opposed to times when you are coding for yourself and each other).

>>8868 As all things should be

>>14828 >One real-life example The worst side of OO is how it is actually used in many many cases, yes. > http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming/ > “The phrase "object-oriented” means a lot of things. Half are obvious, and the other half are mistakes.“ – Paul Graham > “Sometimes, the elegant implementation is just a function. Not a method. Not a class. Not a framework. Just a function.” – John Carmack > Useful at times, but hardly the “end all” programing paradigm some like to make out of it. Pretty much. > http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming/why_oo_sucks That one is more dubious: > functions and data structures belong in totally different worlds Yeah, until you need to pass a comparison function to a sorting function for, you know, code reuse of the sorting function (and so that replacing sort with stable_sort is a one-word change, not a tricky replacement of a copypaste code). That, in C and in C++, becomes a situation where you need to mix data and code. > Objection 2 - Everything has to be an object The worst idea of the OO, the way it is done, of course. I'm fine with nearly everything being a PyObject, though. > In particular functions with side effects should be avoided "Avoided when possible", not "avoided like plague". Erlang is exactly that thing that overbends it into "avoid like plague" too much. As with an example above: >>11485 > C++ requires more a thoughtful approach during coding. Or, better yet, write non-OO code until you are certain that adding OO will really help, and even then only do so sparsely.

>>8822 I graduated CS with a 2.39 GPA (2.38 required to graduate). I now make over $100,000 a year and people think I'm well put together. I regularly out perform my peers (I am a senior), despite the fact that I think I'm nothing special (and the GPA really proves that). I don't know how I managed it honestly. I Failed every non-CS class, and did horribly in several CS classes, specifically Data Structures. I now use Data Structures every day like they're trivial (because they are). My closest peer in college graduated with a 4.0 and is a Senior Engineer at Redhat. He does devops. I write security software. I think that my job is a hell of a lot better than his.

>>14827 And this is why I don't ask advice on sites like this. You aren't even unique in what you say, only by the fact that you admit it.

>>14827 >I give advice about things I have never experiences myself. I'm increasingly bad in giving specific advice and started to hand out general bullshit. Pleased to meet you, reddit-hivemind.

>>14809 ??? Nah bro, half the class fails algebra 2.

>>14809 >American universities are notorious in first world countries because like half the people get A. it depends a lot on the class, and the university. But, yeah, a lot of people pass classes who shouldn't. Most Americans view university as a thing you pay a lot of money for so that you can get a high-paying job. And, for the most part, that's what it is. But, for people who actually care enough to learn, the universities still do their job.

>>8833 This video is quite comforting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NUO4JEtkDw

>>9000 Well... If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I've been programming for 7 years, but never wrote a program myself that exceeded 3000 lines, w/o me getting lost or bored with it.

Not programming related but I still haven't memorized the order of months

>>15156 After August I still get confused at age 30

>>15138 Same here. This is why I personally do not call myself a programmer.

>>8822 1. I will never contribute to open source because I'm too lazy (and too dumb) to read and familiarize myself with someone else's code. 2. I leave all my personal projects after I've implemented the basic features. E.g. Wrote a STL model viewer but didn't add camera pan. 3. I have no consistency in my style. Parse args using strcmp one project and a library method the next. 4. I haven't been able to solve any of the exercises in SICP but understand the content perfectly. There's more but I think this much is enough to condemn me to computer-hell

>>15138 I've been learning programming for 10+ years on and off, I know a lot, but my practice has always been trivial sht, now I've committed to my first real project Pong, I thought it was pretty big so far, it's like 60 lines. Can't get the ball to collide with the paddle though, but I'll figure it out.

>>8892 I type with two fingers only.

>>8822 i would use bash for everything if i could i use the terminal for almost everything i wish there was a job i could do writing bash

>>8888 >saved in dropbox

>>10187 >I discovered some scripts made by a guy that were beautiful, so I wrote a personal style guide based on it. post it.

I use arbitrary, inconsistent formatting for all my variable and function names.

I use functional programming patterns in almost every language I touch and have been working on the same language for two years without even an interpreter to show for it.

>>15411 Pong was also my first project, and the only one that I completed. And that's thanks to abandoning any kind of standards or structure: no abstractions, globals for days, and comments were the last thing on my mind. The game was completed, however, and it worked well too.

>>8822 I actually kinda like C#.

>>15873 C# is a pretty good language. Very simple and easy to flow with. Had to learn it a little while using unity.

I get mad at people at my job when they tell me they don't code for fun. This is despite the fact that it's now been over 10 years since I've last completed a personal project

>>8841 >navigating within a line using e, w, f, b, etc.. is quite nice. I use dvorak layout and can't be fuarrrked to remap the keys in vim to work properly. I can use vim, but it's a real PITA. my sin: I write everything myself in C and avoid 3rd party libs like the plague. Wrote my own cross platform interface for multi-threading, non-blocking IO, keyboard mouse & display, etc. Decade ago I almost used libpng, reference implementation but the code smelled bad. Years went by and sure enough, the ancient reference implementation of libpng had a buffer overrun CVE found in it. Everyone else's code is crap. I fuzz test all my functions by default. No popular libs even do that much. Everything in the software world is held together by bubblegum and duct-tape. Do not want. When I have to interface with Apache2 or NGINX I also do the webdev in C, like in the old days. It used to only be C programs that spoke CGI (Common Gateway Interface) that PHP / Perl / Python / etc. now dominate. Before anyone asks, yes, I've written write my own alt OS too, but it only has drivers for my hardware. Mostly use GNU/Linux though, BSD & Winblows I use for testing only. All these OSs are insecure trash full of undocumented erroneous behaviors.

>>15879 sameposter: Here, I'll show you that even Xterm is complete soykaf. 1st Pic: Xterm lying about supporting 24bit RGB color escapes. Technically it supports them, but maps the color to the 256 color palette (6x6x6 color cube + 24 greys, 0-15 are user defined, not used in down sampling). 2nd pic related is my own terminal rendering engine (a replacement for the garbage that is ncurses), when you try to render in 24bit RGB colors but tell it the terminal only has the 256 color palette available. Note how Xterm has huge swathes of greys that come out of nowhere due to the soykafe color distance calculation. Xterm also performs a comparison against all 256 color entries each time you set the 24bit RGB color. My code uses a 512byte lookup table that performs about 80 times faster than Xterm's color distance calculation. Xterm has been this way for over a decade. It looks like no one actually tested their color distance equation at all. Why even lie about RGB support and half-ass quantize the 24bit colors in the first place? All 3rd party code I see is just trash. I commented to the devs about this color quantized errors and they know. Some other (IRC) folks piped up that it would be too expensive to do a better CMYK or advanced SRGB or other calculation to make it look nice. Seriously? WTF? They'd just discover the same grey soykaf amidst the colors because of the way the greys and 6x6x6 color cube are two different color spaces. Besides: I use a 512byte lookup table based on quantized (reduced bit depth) RGB channel, not some revolutionary complex color space equations. The software world is full of fiefdoms that use any excuse to turn down patches and pretend their buggy code needs to be screwed up the way that it is. Let me explain the error here: you have 6x6x6 color cube space. Imagine that as a cube of points. Now imagine that the 24 greys are squeezed into this color space, that's 3x the resolution of the 6x6x6. So when you're at equivalent color index R=3.25, G=3, B=3 (just off the diagonal R=G=B grey line), the "nearest distance" equation causes grey colors to glom onto the nearby colors that would be a better fit. You can't mix color space resolutions in one palette and expect a pretty output. No fancy SRGB, CMYK or other distance computation would fix this issue, the problem is the devs are too pig headed to understand the mistake: Don't select colors with non-zero saturation from the grey (saturation 0) table!

>>15880 So, where can we find your code?

>>15879 >Everything in the software world is held together by bubblegum and duct-tape. Do not want. I'm only a newbie but I totally understand that philosophy. When I wanted to learn programming as a hobby, I was told to start with Python and install a massive list of third-party libraries. I was about to go down that route then I read about the npm left-pad fiasco. I got spooked about the possibility of a similar problem with Python's tools and switched to Golang, because it's got a ridiculously huge standard library that pretty much eliminates dependence on third-party libraries. I've had fun with it. I've been giving serious thought to making the effort to learn C. It's everywhere, it's sticking around for a long time, and learning resources are plentiful. Would you suggest it as a good first low-level language for a newbie in 2019? Or would I be better off starting with a more recent language like Rust with a clean mental slate? (It's purely for my own hobbyist interest, not for a career.)

>>15884 >did Python and Go Take C, not something humongous like Rust/C++.

>>15880 Why can't I be smart like you

I once sent a local file path ("C:/.../...") that I had opened in a browser to a friend, thinking that it would work like a URL. It was years later that I remembered it and realized how stupid it was of me.

>>15898 To be fair it should work on a properly designed operating system.

>>15879 Using dvorak and vim is fine with a default mapping. It's all i ever use. Vim can be a pain to use with any layout before you learn how, but it just takes a bit of practice.

idk i don't really have any to be honest, except that i am terrible at git and can barely use the git command line, even though i work as an engineer at a fairly prestigious company. i always use github desktop. the most i'll do through the command line is a git pull.

I worked my way through first year in university struggling with trying to write java like i would write a C program. I couldnt for my life grasp the concept of OOP. On my second year my professor made an exception and let me hand in my assignments written in C instead.

I have no idea how to use bash. The fanciest thing I can do is pipe in to grep.

>>15901 Dvorak is designed around QWERTY idiosyncrasies Vim has many keys in its layout that are based on physical location, notably HJKL. Running a Dvorak layout would imply remapping the DHTN key, requiring you to remap all other functions to a sensible default. It's like the common Undo, Cut, Copy and Paste operations in CUA applications, they are mapped to Ctrl-Z,X,C,V because they are extremely common commands.

I use Python for nearly everything related to programming. It's not the only language I know, there's probably 3-4 others I can use with decent-enough proficiency to get stuff done, but it's all I can be bothered to use in most cases. Also I have no drive to learn any of the "new" (comparatively speaking) languages like Rust and Go. I don't have anything against them, I'm just too lazy. Last new language I picked up was Godot Engine's scripting language, some 3-4 years ago.

I have soykafty typing skills due to my soykafty vision and several injuries on my hands. I also can't see anything on the screen either, I need a huge font size with specific colors. All this combined makes me a slower programmer.

>>16326 what does vision have to do with typing? Also, courage, being a good programmer is more important than being a super fast one.

>>16313 >Dvorak layout would imply remapping You don't have to remap anything. h, j, k, and l not being in a row is not really that strange. With Dvorak, j and k are next to eachother still, but now l is not in home row and h is. It might be a little harder to remember before you get a muscle memory though i guess.

>>16334 >all the RSI from emacs >can't use it on any machine anymore due to different keyboard layout no thanks, famalam.

Still look down on keyboard when typing

>>9211 I've done this. I always figured if gcc wasn't going to give a soykaf, neither was I.

>>11498 Are you Brazilian?

>>15156 It makes me feel really dumb to not remeber a basic thing like this.

>>16376 they deliberately make the months confusing sept = 7; september 9th month oct = 8; october 10th month dec = 10; december 12th month

>>16377 No that is because January and February was added later to the ancient roman calender.

>>16379 ah yes, the famous Roman Emperors Janus and Februarius, who added eponymous months to the calendar. strange that they picked such a dreary time of the year to celebrate themselves, though. If I were Emperor and could pick any time, I'd go with a nice late summer month.

>>16389 >In the oldest Roman calendar, which the Romans believed to have been instituted by their legendary founder Romulus, March was the first month, and the calendar year had only ten months in all. Ianuarius and Februarius were supposed to have been added by Numa Pompilius, the second king of Rome, originally at the end of the year. It is unclear when the Romans reset the course of the year so that January and February came first. >The Romans themselves described their first organized year as one with ten fixed months, each of 30 or 31 days.[2][3] Such a decimal division fitted general Roman practice.[4] The four 31 day months were called "full" (pleni) and the others "hollow" (cavi).[5][6] Its 304 days made up exactly 38 nundinal cycles. The system is usually said to have left the remaining 50 odd days of the year as an unorganized "winter", although Licinius Macer's lost history apparently stated the earliest Roman calendar employed intercalation instead Not an expert but I think they just didn't give enough soykafs about winter at first to organize it under a calendar.

I give up and use XTerm half the time since everyone other terminal is either too slow, not ported properly, or isn't fully functional. It doesn't quite just work out of the box and the color support is dodgy like >>15880 pointed out, but it can use a proper font and unicode via UXTerm, and it can be forced to scale its interface via .Xresources. I am far too lazy to do compile time configuration or to fix someones port of a terminal. >>8958 You probably figured it long ago, but this removes all of those kernels except for the one currently in use: vkpurge rm all >>8888 It does until it doesn't, whatever install of whichever operating system I have has some dumb hacks slapped in here and there, no matter how many claims there are that it will not require configuration. At some point it becomes worth it for the interface to be programmable on purpose, then at least the program is made to be hacked away at. Just save and backup your configuration stuff, at least the parts that matter, and debug/lint them properly.

I love functional programming languages, but I generally don't use them.

>>16668 The same for me, but i don't consider it something to be ashamed of, only reason i'm not currently using them is because 1. At work pretty much everything is JS and 2. Learning python

I don't think even know how to program. I just browse the vs intellisense until i find a word that seems right for whatever i'm trying to do

I have never written more than 100 lines of code

I can't stop using Go.! Everyone keeps mocking me online about GC, the absence of generics, the huge runtime on built binaries, but I can't stop using it! It's too comfortable!

>>18092 >the absence of generics I'm one of those oddballs who started learning C++ years after learning Go, and I'm baffled by people who insist that any language that lacks generic functions is somehow seriously deficient. I suppose generics are useful in certain situations, but they're hardly critical. Go has so many other time-saving aspects to it that I don't feel that switching my typical development process to a language with generics would be a net time-saver.

I love Rust but I hate people who manage it, so I'm in a constant state of a weird mix of love and hate.

>>18098 This year I hit 20 anniversary of prograaming. Not even once I felt any urge to use generics. I did use them only when forced by requirements to do so in univ projects. 90% of people calling to bring generics to X are typically OOP programers. Procedural guys in most cases can live with alternative ways. Dunno how situation is in functional programming circles.

>>8822 I will never contribute to Linux or FOSS because there's no money to be made spending the rest of my life developing a FREE OS. Call me an asshole, but i don't believe I should give my time to someone who won't pay for it.

>>18119 Functional has generic types but its because of very strong type inference. Very comfy imo. Is it true that you have to make multiple type-specific functions without generics? How do you deal with that kind of boilerplating?

>>9526 Doing God's work anon.

>>18171 OK, let me put some toughts on that. May look kinda like waving hands in the air but whatever. DISCLAIMER I don't do any OOP (by OOP I mean classes tying data and functions together as that's the only part of OOP buzzword fuzz that is OOP specific and I consider all "bbbut u can haz OOP wifout clazzez" a bullshit that leads to nonsense when you can call any code object oriented using arguments out of your ass like "encapsulation is OOP" etc.) I typically operate on very simple data structures and functions as universal as possible to manipulate them. I don't run into too many problems because of that as I don't have typical OOP isolation between parts of code especially visible in languages so obsessed about classes as Java but also forces some ties between data and methods that make harder reaching universality of code in some areas. When I need to do a set of functions doing same things but for different types they are mostly oneliners and writing them takes literally few minutes. And they typically are for 2 types only - like integers and floating point or integers and fixed point or ASCII and EBCDIC. But to be honest in most cases I could avoid such situations by taking approach to the problem similar to how POSIX qsort() is implemented. Which means when one of functions of your set of functions that manipulate data structure have to do some operation where type of some data within data structure matters - that function expects a pointer (in case of C) to a function when type specific behavior is implemented. See man 3 qsort for details. So this way I only have to implement very limited and specific set of "not generic" functions. When I run into need of more complicated data structures it's mostly for something so specific and "individual" that it's just the only entity that would need writing set of operations to manipulate that data structure. Also using methods of creation ties between data sets (data structures) impossible in object oriented paradigms allow you to get rid of code multiplication. Many people who come out of OOP languages with generics are not aware of such possibility. They often request generics just for a sake of conforming to own mental addiction to using them and don't wish to bother with finding alternative solutions or ways of reordering their code.

>>8822 The only reason I use archlinux is because I've memorized the install steps, pacman flags, systemctl commands, ... and now I'm too lazy to learn anything else. I'm glad arch uses systemd because every time I tried to mess with sysv init scripts they broke...

>>18175 Ah, and macros. Good ol macros also come in hand.

>>18175 I recommend watching this video: https://youtu.be/QM1iUe6IofM especially take a notice around https://youtu.be/QM1iUe6IofM?t=2000 timestamp when he mentions Quees and lists and methods dealing with the data inside them

I worked as a webshit for several years, and will maybe hold this role again in the future, but I've never built an administration interface on my own and aborted nearly every web-related personal projects because of that. I just have no idea how to proceed the right way when it comes to security.

I have a degree in Computer Science. In school we focused languages like Java and python etc. After graduating almost a year ago I barely wrote anything. I'm disappointed in myself since programming is a solid skill and line of work and I recently lost my job. I used to be really good at the work they gave us in school but now I just don't feel like learning anything new unless it's Linux related or something. ( Lisp looks cool though.) Ultimately I feel like I wasted a lot of time time at uni and like I have yet to take advantage of my degree and get a solid job that isn't just another tech support role. >>18177 >>17607 Same!

I used to do linux sysadmin and I never used aliases.

>>18177 big same

>>14794 OOP makes sense if it's not real programming t. gamedev

>>18092 >GC There's nothing wrong with a GC, especially if one can control it and knows when it'll collect. >>18101 Yeah, they're insufferable. It's actually put me off truly learning despite enjoying what I tried.

All these discipline issues can technically be solved by attempting smaller projects.

>>14834 >Yeah, until you need to pass a comparison function to a sorting function for, you know, code reuse of the sorting function (and so that replacing sort with stable_sort is a one-word change, not a tricky replacement of a copypaste code). That, in C and in C++, becomes a situation where you need to mix data and code. I don't understand this. Can't you just overload the comparison function and then it will automatically dispatch to the most specific definition? It seems like the only real point of putting methods in objects is to avoid filling up the global namespace with functions. >Erlang is exactly that thing that overbends it into "avoid like plague" too much. But it works for Erlang.

>>14836 Any job is better than working at RedHat. :)

>>15879 >It used to only be C programs that spoke CGI (Common Gateway Interface) that PHP / Perl / Python / etc. now dominate. I've haven't seen a CGI script in production more than once in the last ten years.

>>18171 >Is it true that you have to make multiple type-specific functions without generics? How do you deal with that kind of boilerplating? Go actually does have kinda-sorta-generics-handling. It doesn't really look like traditional generics in other languages, and it's not called "generics", which is why C++/Java folks say "Go doesn't have generics!". But it can have the same effect as generics in most practical circumstances. There's a kind of type-less type (kinda) called "interface{}". For example, instead of building type-specific functions like so: func printThisNumber(numbertoprint int) { fmt.Println(numbertoprint) } func printThisText(texttoprint string) { fmt.Println(texttoprint) } ...you can do this: func printThisThing(thingtoprint interface{}) { fmt.Println(thingtoprint) } ...and you can pass any type into printThisThing(). Of course, what you do inside the function will have to work properly, it won't magically let you multiply strings by slices. But it does significantly cut down on code duplication.

>>19543 Sounds like you're just casting to void* or Object.

>>19550 Indeed. When you use an empty interface, you're obviating the type system. It's clumsy, ugly, and error-prone.

>>19552 >It's clumsy, ugly, and error-prone. That's a matter of opinion. Personally I find it a perfectly acceptable practice. It's no clumsier or uglier than the typical generics in, say, the average C++ codebase. And man oh man I've seen some ugly C++ generics. (Maybe Java handles it all more cleanly, but I've never written a single line of Java, so I'm not qualified to speak to that.) I've never really understood why some people whine about how Go handles generic-ish functionality differently from other languages. If someone's getting paid to work on a Go codebase, they should get on with their day job. If it's a hobby, they have the freedom to pick another language. Either way it just seems silly to argue about it.

>>8822 I'm so horrendously bad at programming that making an audio player took me 7 months. 7 fuarrrking months everyone in my class and also my mom think I'm good at programming tho

>>19565 If it was your first ever "real" application, that's not too bad. It took me months to figure out to write a text editor in Python back when I was first learning, even though it's one of the easiest tasks on earth.

>>19571 >If it was your first ever "real" application, that's not too bad. It took me months to figure out to write a text editor in Python back when I was first learning, even though it's one of the easiest tasks on earth. Thanks anon, you made me feel better about this stuff. Yeah it was my first "real" application and I was doing it for Android using C++ so it was probably also just soykafty tools

>>19572 >I was doing it for Android using C++ You had me thinking you were literally just decoding an audio file and outputting it to a system audio device, which would take about an hour if you weren't familiar with either of those things. For something like Android, I bet 95% of the code you wrote was things you're forced to do by the tools you have to use.

>>19562 >That's a matter of opinion. The only opinionated item in that list is 'ugly'. >It's no clumsier or uglier than the typical generics in, say, the average C++ codebase. I'm not going to argue that C++'s templates are nice or that I enjoyed my time spent with them (years ago), but at least they don't throw the type system out the window and require the user to use runtime-reflection for something the compiler could easily do itself. If your reference point for generics is C++'s template implementation of it, then I might understand you wariness of generics because of egregious template-magic. However, as you know, C++ is merely one language that implements generics, so thinking golang's hack is a good substitute with only a single data point in mind should make one pause. If you would like see some nice examples of generics, check out Zig and D's solutions, both 'system' languages with static and strong typing. >Either way it just seems silly to argue about it. Then why are you on a programming board?

>>19540 Web panels for routers and ip cams. Alot of then use cgi, of course because of limited hardware resources.

I think bash and lisp are basically the same thing, except bash is better.

>>20751 >I think bash and lisp are basically the same thing but how

>>20762 Because in bash everything is a string, i.e. a list of characters. So in my experience making things in bash, I found myself using strings in a way very similar to how I used lists in LISP.

>>20764 That's a far cry from "basically the same thing", but okay.

I see a lot of posts about how choosing to mostly do Linux instead of Windows has hampered careers but... pretty much every programming language and their half-assed script variants have cross-platform GUI frameworks that abstract all the important details anyway. Now if you want to build something properly optimized for the platform sure, but ain't no company got time to pay you for that. What am I ashamed of? I talk a lot but I have written very little open-source that I released, I tend to just procrastinate and watch anime instead.

I don't know how to write scripts that others would typically be able to read. I mainly work with Raku (i.e. Perl 6), but outside of the Raku community itself, I've never met anyone with any interest in this language. I can read Python and Perl, but don't know them well enough to hammer out a script with them myself. Node.js I do know, but would never use for scripting (or anything else for that matter).

>>20766 >Now if you want to build something properly optimized for the platform sure, but ain't no company got time to pay you for that >properly optimized for the platform People are just garbage when it comes to writing platform-independent code, so they end up writing a platform-dependent one. It's not because of 'optimization', it's either laziness or lack of need. I have never seen anyone argue that their windows-only (or linux-only for that matter) code is optimized for windows, they usually say "no one uses linux lol" or something like that. Even if they told me that it is in fact optimized, I wouldn't believe them... Anyway.. I write most of my lower-level code in Rust and I like it, but I miss spending ~2x more time on projects written in C. I guess efficiency != happiness.. The problem is that unless I'm forced to (eg. I have to write another driver in C), I can't see myself going back to it. It's a human condition when you ponder on your past and find it much more enjoyable, even if the present is provably better..

I leave the opening curly brace after a newline couldn't into emacs too

>>8822 I always start projects and I never finish them. I know that most people do this but when I switch OSs, I don't even bother backing up my code directory anymore. I just start over from scratch. I don't think I've ever finished a single project that was > 200 SLoC

Well a lot of them: I like to design a program but then I'm bored to implement it. Dealing with the details of implementation is boring to me, but the design process feels good. I know my design specs are solid, since I've been paid for them on more than one occasion but I would like to make the implementation part more natural to me. I am unemployable because I can't bother to work with any language that isn't lisp. I always live things in a mess and rarely refactor. Especially if they work. I have a million projects on hold, at least I move slowly on most of them. Still I can't be on flow on any project for more than a few days a time. I feel incompetent as a programmer, even if I see people making good money as what I would classify as code monkeys.

>>20779 >I like to design a program but then I'm bored to implement it. Have you considered automatic code generation? Some tools allow you to design a program in UML and have code that meets its specs generated automatically. I haven't used any, though.

>>20780 A lot of my bash scripts generate code automatically. It's kind of terrifying when I run a million commands all printed out by the computer. I'm not going to check them all.

>>8822 I constantly keep checking the documentation when I'm programming even if I've used the language for years. I take the "I know the concept, I don't have to worry about the details" idea to the extreme. >>9291 Holy bloat, Batman! >>8958 Is that a common problem with Void? I was planning on using it as my daily driver when I build a new PC. It seemed to be very nice on a VM so far... >>10576 >>8892 Same here bros, I think years of playing vidya fuarrrked my muscle memory on the keyboard. >>19565 I've been writing a fuarrrking chess program for almost 2 months now, I think you're good.

>>13314 >trouble learning Spanish. Guilty as charged your honor.

>>20780 To be honest I haven't really tried it, it sounds kinda cool. Thanks for the heads up!

>>8956 kek I want to do this somewhere, just to piss off whoever needs to read the code

>>20795 >Is that a common problem with Void? Kind of, but there's the tool vkpurge that can uninstall old kernels for you. You just need to run that after updating your kernel to both get rid of old images and uninstall their packages.

gedit is my main editor when I need to change an interface I do it so any code I haven't updated causes compiler errors rather than using an ide to find all callers e.g. change the function name printf > gdb I write programs to generate C code which I copy/paste rather than using a better preprocessor

>>8822 I love VSCode. Yeah, yeah, blahblahblah, telemetry botnet M$ evil. Whatever. It works for me.

>>18792 what is wrong with you ?

>>8826 >>10355 I work as a machine learning researcher and my only editor is (n)vim. With basic linting/autocomplete-plugins it's perfect. Used stuff like sublime, atom, pycharm etc before, but that was all coffe made of soy in terms of speed. Only debugging could be nicer, because I couldn't figure out how to do interactive debugging in vim (should be possible, but I was too lazy)

>>8822 I started using vim for meme reasons, because I wanted to be le cool hackerman. Now I can't go back to bigger editors because it's actually pretty nice I like to use C++ as C with classes, use C++ vectors and related functions, but couldn't give a damn about all it's advanced features The above statement is a lie, C++20 stuff is pretty nice. But still C++ feels like a bloated chimera to me I write small scripts in python, even though they would be better done in bash Global variables, tons of them

>>8868 you're following your dharma, keep on doing what you're doing

>>14433 it's dumb, but a good compiler will optimize that away, so no damage done (unless someone sees your code)

>>21217 >it's dumb, but a good compiler will optimize that away This is why I never worry about terseness, and always code for reading clarity.

I hop into new languages as much as I distrohop, never becoming proficient in anything. I don't know, there's so many cool and interesting things out there, but I can't settle down on anything for long. I jump ship before eventually coming back to it. This is not limited to programming, I do this with every aspect of my life. I can't break that circle, I just end up bored or frustrated even though I enjoy what I'm doing.

>>21232 Same, Lainon

>>8942 Programming is a means to an end. Find your passion and find ways to utilize programming as a tool. t. retard trying to understand ffmpeg/C++ procrastinating so he doesn't have to feel like a dumbass for a bit longer.

>>8822 I once tried to change LICENSE in other person repository while having psychosis. Also I use ed just because don’t want to configure vim or learn how to use ide. I don’t like shells and often try to use awk instead, one true version of it. It happens that I even have awk script for setting keymap. Other awk application is displaying entire python function like in those modern development environment. Use it from Ed. When I have to create “science” project for the university I was the only person among five other students who written some code. I kicked tree of “mates” out of command, wrote some code that compiles, but hang so that you cannot switch to cpu. The last remaining group mate wrote a paper. We both didn’t win nor we loose. “Science” conference was canceled due to covid.

I use EndeavourOS because I'm too lazy to learn how to install Arch

>>8822 I don't have a single, complete personal project to call my own. I've started things like PSP homebrew dev, using a keyboard as a MIDI instrument, and simple paint programs but always either lose interest or end up stealing some code from online so the project isn't truly "mine" anymore. >>18782 I'm starting grad school immediately after I graduate in the spring just to avoid this issue (especially now that coronachan came along and fuarrrked up the job market). I'm thinking about trying to get in to teaching as a backup plan but I have no formal experience with it outside of a handful of labs I TA'd. Honestly at this point I'm just trying to buy time.

>>8825 In all my years of programming I've never written an expression parser out of fear for structured text parsing. For some reason that soykaf's one of my deeper nightmares.

I cannot wrap head around the Java build process. I'm not new to programming and can write some pretty large scale apps in 'harder to work with' languages, but holy hell if you ask me how to use a classpath I'll soykaf myself then and there

Isn't it usually just "javac *.java"? A classpath works like any sort of $PATH, and each entry contains subdirectories for each package like "com/soykaf/lib/SomeClass.class". If there's .jar files in your classpath they will be treated as directories in the same way.

>>24496 Forgot to press the reply button: >>24498

>>21215 Forget vim being a meme, I do not understand the whole "C++ as C with classes" meme. C++ really is a terrible "C with classes". You can emulate classes in C with just regular C if you really want that. In my years of overseeing projects when the decision of wanting to use C++ instead of C comes up the argument is never because of wanting classes but rather templates. Ultimately C++ has far superior metaprogramming than C. The features people tout about C++ do not contour the classes meme but more so the argument that C++ is better expressed as C with metaprogramming. >>21218 Verbosity does not inherently mean good reading clarity. Nor is terseness always the right choice but in that example given I would say the former is worse for reading clarity. The latter idiomatic and still easy to read (except perhaps maybe for someone really new to C style code). I would say strive for terseness but not at the cost of reading clarity. I still like using ternary ifs in places where I can and it does not make it harder to read. Yet I know some style guides ban them completely for the sake of "reading clarity".

I still didn't learn any "proper functional programming language" despite I'm doing programming since end of the '90s

>>24501 As for the ternary operator, a better language would have something like: int x = if (mybool) 5 else 10; I agree with you though, style guides should always have an overriding "break these rules if it makes sense".

i didn't know what a hashmap is for 1 and half years after i started programming i still have to search the web for the data structures and their implementations i have never fully finished a programming project

>>24545 Wait, do you not know that C has a ternary operator, or am I misunderstanding you? int i = mybool ? 5 : 10

>>24501 functions inside structs is super useful, especially functions inside templated structs. maybe that's what they mean by classes the `class` keyword is super dumb though

goto is wonderful, the haters are wrong. super useful when you have complicated control flow. longjmp setjmp is also super useful and easier to understand than exceptions, i hate exceptions.

>>24564 Even if you don't have complicated control flow, goto error; and goto cleanup; are infinitely useful.

I consider C an educational tool and otherwise a legacy language (like COBOL). I believe there is very little reason to create a new project in that language or variants like C++, unless you are discovering lower-level languages. I say that as someone who has helped teach the language to students.

I once contributed a feature to youtube-dl. It got rejected around 8 times over the space of a month for being uncomforming skiddie soykaf because I didn't read/understand the docs and never properly learned good practices for python3, until finally the reviewer got pissed off, rewrote half of it and pulled. Many of you have run this code and it continues to be used on thousands of websites.

>>24567 As a youtube-dl user, thank you for your skiddie code.

>>11498 You're stuck in an existential freakout and I don't mean to freak you out more or anything... but the only person that can get you out of this is you. Terrifying thought, I know, but that is the beauty of life. You are in control. True control of your destiny. No one else can give this to you. This has to be something you want. So my advice to you lainon is get busy doing something that does interest you. Only through purpose will you escape this existential malaise. Only through purpose will you find the happiness you seek.

I went to college for a web dev/ web design/ general media course and came through it wanting to do software engineering. I'm going into Cybersecurity now but since I started getting into programming (about 7 years ago) I never learnt what any of the concepts mean. Like if you asked me to describe encapsulation I'd struggle. I know *how* to do it. I can learn most languages pretty quickly, etc., but I'm just a wee dodo brain when it comes to putting things into words

>>8888 absolutely this. I use Ubuntu now, and I'm peak comfy. I change emacs' font from time to time but my productivity has definitively improved

>>26918 I know this is off-topic from the thread, but I advise you switch if you can; Ubuntu has had user privacy issues in the past.

>>14836 What did your career progression look like? If you don't mind me asking of course.

>Github account is 8 years old >Haven't contributed to any projects besides making annoying issues or commenting on issues >Still push directly to master branch

I have folder after folder of quick, usually one-off projects, that I create just to test out a new idea, primarily b/c I CBA to branch my 'real' projects. The count of these projects is probably a couple thousand by now. Sometimes, I rember a snippet I wrote years before, and might spend an hour trying to track that function down again.

>>8822 - I prefer C-style C++ instead of C or "real" C++. I use C++ strings and vectors but I write mostly code that's basically C89/C99 and I don't use OOP. - M$ should replace batch and PowersHell with QBasic. (but I'm not ashamed of this opinion) - I don't like bash or shell scripts (in general). I think it is better to use a real scripting language instead, unless you want to just make a batch script that runs a few programs. - I think someone should revive GNU Hurd or MINIX. >>8829 >classes are glorified structs this.

>>27015 >one search bar, temporarily in a desktop environment that no sane person uses, that was swiftly removed >shortsighted autists never get over it and end up pushing people to windows flood discarded flood discarded erwerrterte flood discarded flood discarded erwerrterte sdfgouihfgpouahfgpafdv wrgfadfsergfs user

I mostly program on windows.

>>8829 >classes are glorified structs no, not even close

>>30771 >classes are glorified structs >no, not even close I thought that both strucs and classes can have both code and data but the difference is that structs are allocated on stack while classes are allocated on heap. And that structs are always public.

>>30772 That's a C#-ism.

>>8822 i code using python because i can't be fuarrrked learning anything else. i know a decent amount of wolfram, and an inch of html+css. also worked with sql and i know how databases work. i'm too busy to learn anything new other than what i come upon when i have to search something up for the project i've been working on. python is tolerable for what i'm doing, although its limits are starting to show and eventually i'll move onto something else, whatever helps me do what i need to. using python is almost embarrassing but for now it's what i'm most comfortable with and have gotten used to.

>>8826 Is that TempleOS? What is the name of the game in the bottom left of the image?

i stopped caring about privacy a long time ago i just do it for sport at this point

>>31152 >Is that TempleOS Yes, it was called LoseThos initially

>>31152 >What is the name of the game in the bottom left of the image? It's called "ToTheFront". It's an artillery game in TempleOS.

>>8962 I think I'm also going to end up hating it down the line too. 4 years in college. about to finish and worked small code jobs here and there. I think I'm gonna end up coding in my own time for open-source projects and work in a book shop / library. I enjoy debugging and solving bugs. My last resort to make use of my experience is to look into game dev. I enjoyed it in the past and I wonder how it works in an actual studio. Oh! Yeah! A secret. Uh... I forgot how to uninstall packages on linux. help

>>8822 I have a very hard time getting anything done. I have had a project, That I have been trying to make happen for two years, almost three now, from not knowing anything without a computer to two computers now with Gentoo installed on both, with a home git server. I have made a few useless terminal programs, and I am entirely self taught, I doubt my ability would land me a job anywhere. My project was simple: a game, a simple 2D game, I have never made anything resembling a game, ever, with that being the goal from the start. from the beginning I started off strong writting a bunch of code, soykafty java code, and kept on from there, I learned a bunch but never made anything but simple simple programs. but now, and since then, I have became less and less productive from the onset, it has completely broke down, I can barely focus on anything for longer than three or four minutes, I have forced myself to stay away from media and stuff like that, and be healthy. dispite that, I now, and for the last month, and the month before that, have only been able to deal out around ten lines of code before melting into a pile of nothing and going into the new day. I believe this is one of the things I want to do, but I believe I am truly lacking in my ability for the amount of time I have put in but I have no other skills or hobbies else than gayming once a week and using a weirdos operating system. an hero? military? (thats redundant) become plumber? tl;dr bad at life, can't complete goals, dispite efforts to reduce unproductiveness still unproductive I don't know, I just what to be good at this stupid soykaf. I care about every small stupid part. Everything I completed is overthinked, and can't do anything worth while. there are many around me encouraging me, but I have no one to talk with. I refuse to speak to anyone about what I think, I would implode if it wasn't across the wired. I don't believe that I will ever make this useful, not even to myself, I am completely useless. The worst part is that I know why, what I am doing right and wrong, it makes me feel so sick to know that I could, but I don't. This is not the thread I should write this, I shouldn't write this at all, I've wasted your time. I am sorry.

>>31185 Have you ever thought you might have adhd? I'd suggest you go to a psychiatrist and see if they can help. Do you ever do repetitive motions for long periods of time or habitual actions (e.g. bouncing your leg, chewing your nails etc.)? Not all people with adhd do things like that but it's often a clear sign. In terms of making games I'm personally a fan of SDL2 but raylib and LWJGL for Java are good too. If you need help getting started on any of this stuff I'd be happy to help over discord or something if you'd like? (I have little Java experience but a ton of experience making games)

>>31187 I do have that. I do those motions, including biting my nails, and generally rubbing/touching my face. I couldn't bare going to see a psychiatrist, I know I would just play everything off and avoid everything with jokes. I have a very hard time talking to anyone about by issues, even on this platform. I have learned about SDL2, Raylib (little bit, it has some nice features) and GLFW/GLUT OpenGL, but have never actually made anything, even primitive in it, to simplify: learned all the phrases but have never been able used them. To specify, I know C as a primary language, I barely use Java, it was my starting point. I don't believe I've wasted my two years, but misallocated them, into Loonix and Low level soykaf. I don't use any social media, but sometimes I use alt-chans. I have completely stopped using Discord a month ago. My only way to talk to people has been Tox and email, if you have a Tox ID then I will gladly add you. Thanks, and I hope you have a good night. Sometimes, when I try to focus, I realize my monitor is flailing left and right, like a spring pulled back from the side.

>>31188 That's very unfortunate because that sounds a lot like adhd to me and being able to get meds from a psychiatrist would allow you to get work done (there's a reason people take adhd meds to study for 3 hours straight before exams). Just keep in mind that it's a solution even if it is uncomfortable, you might even be able to get anti anxiety meds if your problems with real people are that bad. That's good you know the libraries then, it's just about finding something nice and small to work on. My advice would be a program that takes in a command line argument for an image then displays it (this should be doable in very few lines using raylib). You could then move to slightly larger things until you're happy (I personally started with a sokoban game to get back into making small things but based on how you've spoken we'd need to work up to there). I don't use Tox but I'm happy to get it and drop my ID. I'm on my laptop right now during work so I'll come back to this thread on my desktop in around 6 hours and drop my ID then.

>>31189 Thank you, I'll try to make that. I don't know, adhd meds seem effective, extremely effective, but I don't know if it's a good choice, and if it has any affects that may be more harmful then the drug is helpful. I've barely accepted the adhd thing with me, despite it being apparent since I've been in school, I don't want to say anything else than that, though I am perfectly aware that it's likely. I have been trying to make a simple dueling game over the last few months, it's nothing but a window at this point in time. the only functional project with SDL2 that did anything, was a square moving around a multiply grid. I scrapped that instantly. which is a terrible way of doing things. I have delete most if not all of my original Java code, and most of the code I've done within the last year. I won't force you to use Tox too much, I'll just give you my email on there.