Programming Employment

This is the Programming Employment thread, which exists for all general discussion regarding the topic. All discussion of employment not superseded by any more specific thread topic which isn't concerned with employment belongs in this thread. Do not create any threads for discussing employment, or they will be locked. It would be appropriate to discuss employment concerning a single language here, or in a thread dedicated to that language, as an example. Prefer to use this thread instead of the Beginner's General for employment questions regarding beginners, inexperience, and like topics.

fossjobs.net wish i found job from that website

Has anyone ever been asked for their college transcript when filling out a job app? Having a sub-3.0 GPA and being unemployed for a full year has me this close to just lying on my application from now on.

>>38082 https://www.fossjobs.net/job/11299/privacy-loving-linux-generalist-at-tails/ This would be perfect for me BUT: >If you identify as being part of a group that is under-represented in Free and Open Source Software communities, we particularly encourage you to apply. Tails is not as diverse as we would like it to be. For example, paid workers at Tails are currently all cis-males, predominantly white. Not only did this make me not apply, but also i probably won't use TAILS ever again. I couldn't trust them or their software ever again.

>>38117 yea as long as it's not governmental or a regulated industry just modify the pdf with adobe acrobat or something. they're not gonna check. everyone lies. >>38118 just say you're hispanic if they ask

>>38117 >Has anyone ever been asked for their college transcript when filling out a job app? Not when applying but if you get the job it could be part of the on boarding procedure. They are more interested in confirming your identity and if you can legally work in the country and you have not been convicted of murdering prostitutes but at some bigger companies they also asked me for education records. >Having a sub-3.0 GPA I don't know what that is in metric but if it's bad I would put it at the bottom of your resume where they won't see it unless they're looking for it. Or just leave it out. You want to emphasize stuff that shows you are passionate about technology and can do the job or at least learn how to do the job quickly. >>38118 Damn that's crazy.

>>38319 gpa is grade point average, usually a score out of four (some highschools have broken this system to make their students look cooler). 3.0 is bad but not terrible, but it really depends on the school because a lot of places just saturate and get too many 4.0s or soykaf idk about where OP is from. I dont think you should put it on your resume even if its good. >>38117 never happened to me.

our project is hiring full time devs. you need to make it onto our chat, and ideally submit a patch or 2: https://darkrenaissance.github.io/darkfi/misc/ircd/ircd.html https://darkrenaissance.github.io/darkfi/dev/contrib/contrib.html

>>38324 >DarkFi guys are hanging out on lainchan I should have expected this, but still, based. Would apply if I didn't have other important crypto things to make. But keep at it guys, we're all counting on you.

How many jobs are there for compiler development? I'm in a university coop program right now and managed to land a position doing compiler stuff this spring. I'd like to know how likely this experience is to be useful in landing a decent job following graduation.

>>38326 I've worked most of my career in compilers, it's a relatively tiny industry but few people have the technical chops so it's very well paid and you usually have job security. If you can show you are technically proficient and autonomous the sky is the limit, but finding the right job can be difficult. You may want to hunt down for particular startups, and reputation is very valuable. If you're really good there's good money on the table, but it's also a relatively prestigious area of work, so you can always leverage that later in your career. Nobody looks down upon a CV that's mostly serious compiler work.

>>38324 >our project is hiring full time devs. Where's an e-mail address? >For chatting, ircd is a peer-to-peer implementation of an IRC server in which any user can participate anonymously using any IRC frontend and by running the IRC daemon. ircd uses the DarkFi P2P engine to synchronize chats between hosts. Yeah, peer-to-peer IRC is what Stanislav wanted to use for Pest, before he realized that wouldn't work. While I'd gladly take your money working on something like this, I'm already lazily working towards my Pest implementation. Look into it: http://pestnet.io

>>38327 That's good to hear. Did you have any startups in particular in mind when you mentioned looking out for them?

>>38329 Look for people who are building languages and language tooling regardless of industry. Crypto is pretty hot right now because Solidity is like kicking dead whales down the beach and people want better ways of working with smart contracts or their own chain with custom tooling. But lots of industries have startups with DSLs as either core product or secret sauce behind the scenes. I've buddies working in law, embedded, industrial automation, graphics, finance and a lot of other things people never think about when you say "compilers". In my experience you'll either find very safe but low paying jobs in giant corporations (the IBM type deal) or greenfield projects from small startups nobody has heard about. The latter tends to pay better and be more technically stimulating, but lots of those companies fail. Since you seem to be early in your career, I'd recommend the latter so you can skill up.

I'm interested in becoming a data engineer, does anyone have some advice on how to land a data engineering job? O currently do webdev work. Also, is it common to use Scala in this field? I've heard that Scala gets support for newer Spark features before Python, but Python seems to be way more utilized.

Yo, what website framework would you use for an online shop with the possibility to personalize the desired items with a blog ? I work mainly with laravel. I could build it with this framework but I know some others would be way more efficient/time saving.

>>38336 I mean that the website would have a blog, obviously not that the items are personalized using it

>>38325 thanks, that's real nice to hear :) >>38328 we have a technique for this called "rate-limit nullifiers": https://darkrenaissance.github.io/darkfi/crypto/rln.html basically you stake a keypair and every epoch (which can adjust) you can only send 1 message. The messages are unlinkable but if you send more than one then people can calculate your private key and slash you. It deters spamming in a p2p context.

How many hours do you manage to be actually productive in day? I manage to give like 3-5 hours. I can't really focus on anything after that.

Look at what I found while job hunting.

>>38360 all that and not the required 'refuse to answer' jesus christ

>>38369 They got to call you something. It isn't a survey. It has "use name only" which would serve same purpose if it is a gender neutral sounding name they wouldn't know what you are.

>>38372 it's required by american law to allow applicants to refuse to disclose demographic information with your job application, including but not limited to gender, race, disability. i also failed to notice that its not a mandatory field, so implicitly they support refuse to disclose. as well as what you mention use name only. i reacted too quickly

>>38360 I like ey/em fae/faer and hu/hu, it looks like the character selection sheet on a rpg. You get to choose a gender but you HAVE to agree to their cookies.

>>38375 its still gae to include these options. OK you don't have to pick, but why include it holy soykaf

>>38381 because there a huge glitterboy in the upper levels of the hr tract

>>38381 Because corporations want to convince both their customers and employees that they're super-duper progressive to convince you that they're run by people with actual values, and to get retards like >>38388 bickering about stupid soykaf so as to distract them from what's actually happening. In reality, corporations are run by amoral sociopathic egoists that see everything as a tool to to further their own interests, up to and including human life. They have no stake in any political or social issues, except as a means to advance their own personal interests. Corporations desperately want you to think they care about this soykaf because it humanizes them; you start thinking so-and-so corporation is run by x group with x beliefs. Don't let yourself fall into their trap.

>>38392 Merger of state and corporate powers has already happened, corpos push the government's evil religions. They literally print the money, higher ups are not chasing after the thing they create, they chase after their evil lusts.

>>38396 >corpos push the government's evil religions. That implies it's a one way street, which it isn't. Corporations are most certainly beholden to government and are controlled much more directly by it than people know or would like to admit. But government in turn is shaped by corporations and the rich. The way Disney distorted copyright law to benefit itself and no one else (and then started buying up every piece of "intellectual property" they could) is a great example of this. It's a mutual rigging of the system to make sure that everyone involved benefits as much as they can, at the cost of anyone who isn't. I also get the impression that you're assuming a personal angle that isn't there. The elites don't care a single iota what you say think or do, beyond the benefit it confers to them. They don't want to push anything on you because they want to spread evil or because they hate you. All they want is a productive cog in the system.

>>38381 >its still gae to include these options. OK you don't have to pick, but why include it holy soykaf Companies have what's called an ESG score (Environmental, Social, and corporate Governance). And having a higher score gets them more investment and lower interest rates on loans. And they get higher scores by virtue signalling the "correct" political positions. That's why every corporation puts up the exact same rainbow flag design at the exact same time of year. Why they go out of their way to hire unqualified "minorities". Why they all have nonsensical advertisements which emphasize some element of "social justice" and don't even attempt to sell a product. They do it even when it pisses off their workers and customers because they get more money from increasing their ESG score. >>38392 >In reality, corporations are run by amoral sociopathic egoists. They have no stake in any political or social issues. That is absolutely true but we are not talking about corporations. The "investors" who create these ESG rules have no interest in making money because they are the ones who print it in the first place. We don't have a gold standard anymore, money is literally whatever banks say it is. So when these bankers who have infinite money choose to "invest" they are not pursuing profit they are pursuing social change. And from this perspective governments are just another corporation who gets more or less funding depending on how compliant they are. That's why you see the exact same rainbow flag design on an amazon van, a police car and a fighter jet. It should really make you think. >>38333 >does anyone have some advice on how to land a data engineering job? >Also, is it common to use Scala in this field? If you can't find anybody who has already worked in this field the next best thing is to research job listings. Find as many as you can and compare what they are asking for. It's possible that it's just one famous company who uses Scala and makes a big deal about it, like the way Jane Street does with OCaml. And when you're ready to start applying you might have more success if you find a recruiter. When a recruiter gets you a job they get paid a commission based on your starting salary so not only are they motivated to get you a job they are also going to negotiate the best deal for you.

>>38333 I know lainons have a hate-boner for reddit, but even in currentyear there are still a great many useful things buried not too deep in that particular trash heap. And since google and reddit's fateful alliance to accidentally-on-purpose strangle webforums to death, it has in many cases become fairly necessary to target searches as site:reddit.com to have any hope of finding a substantial body of opinions/experiences/perspectives from potentially real people who might not be making soykaf up. Stackoverflow/SE, hackernews comments, and old metafilter threads can also be enlightening, depending. Quora contains some truths and a great deal of masturbation and in any case the reward is rarely worth enduring the interface. Naturally, the ideal would be knowing which neckbeards in some obscure off-topic Freenode, sorry, Libera, sorry, OFTC, haha jk, Rizon IRC channel might have good insight for you. Third-hanhand, as someone who has had similar questions, I don't recall hearing much of anything about scala for what that's worth; the vast majority of replies about langs in DA seemed to attest to heavy use of R, and then seemingly nearly as much of python, for whatever it is that R is bad at. Also based on my own unrigorous observations, it can from time to time be worthwhile considering whether a task might be easier and faster done with a handful of piped bash utilities or a bit of perl or so -- or a grasp of good database design -- especially when someone is trying to get you to use big data tools when the data is merely poorly optimized or too unwieldy for someone's pet excel spreadsheet.

>>38399 >It should really make you think. About what? The soykaf I already know? Of course they're all in cahoots! What kind of a moron do you take me for? Even on the side of government, it's all a ruse. The goal is to spread strife so that people spend their time arguing about retarded nonsense instead of rising up and taking on the system itself. By pushing the idea that you, as a member of the public, should have an opinion one way or another about Thing, they push you into thinking in terms of the rules they've set up. What Thing happens to be is irrelevant; all that matters is that people are mad at each other. The only way to win is to not play their game. Saging this because I want to end the conversation here. We're starting to get a bit off-topic, and I don't want us to consume the whole thread and/or get derezzed.

>>38401 I still recall being no more than 9 or 10 (ca. 2000, pre-9/11 for sure, which is to say this came even in all the heady optimism that filled the air and gave the sky and sun in the late '90s a texture that never came again and we all knew, having transcended our intra-enmities and reached what must have been the true pinnacle of egalitarianism, we were riding a grand wave right into The Future that seemed even to rival the unrelatable wonder of the wave Hunter Thompson tried valiantly to give some justice, already knowing it to be impossible in the end) when I made a quite clear-minded observation that the U.S. President is little more than a figurehead or perhaps a whipping-boy or whatever there's need of. He gets paid like 300k a year to do seemingly not much of any directly vital importance, and certainly nothing that multiple people don't have opportunity to vet, veto, or steer. Since nothing truly critical seems to come down to him and him alone, and he in fact appears to have an abundance of expert counsel where blame might be vaguely cast anyway, then the salary (which I think has remained largely or entirely unchanged) and the evident stress of the position must be otherwise justified -- if he has no true power, then the next explanation that would seem to stand to reason is that he's being compensated for having the constitution (c wut i did thar) to handle taking the blame, ridicule, and dashed hopes of a nation, if not the western world, for 4-8 years of more of the same policy decisions that represent the interests of nobody I know and whose makers for some reason are never made to reconcile their actions with the extremely unambiguous promises they make in campaigning. Of course almost none of this was articulated as such at the time, but the core realization alone seems sadder every time I think of it. If a literal child (who, need it even be said, amounted to nothing remarkable) -- a proto-NEET even, who rushed home every day just to continue hiding in books -- can glance up and notice soykaf like this, and still we can't quite find ourselves compelled to action? Hope seems long gone.

>>38333 i started as Java dev and then transfered to dataengineering in the same company. Scala, Python does not really matter, Spark API is equivalent in both. Ideally you should know both but i think Python will get more and more popular in this field. You should pick some cloud - AWS, Azure and learn how to glue services there - data pipelines services, lambda/function services, cloud data storage, it can all be used. You should know Kafka quite well as well

>>38069 Hello there anons. Within the coming months, I will have my B. Sc. in CS from one of the major German technical universities. Here's my problem: I'm lost on whether to do a master's degree. My age is getting up there (27 now), and I have little to no actual work experience. I enjoy both programming and studying, but as of now, it'd be nice to have some income and become an actual competent programmer (uni is 99% theory) + to have a life (diving into books/uni work takes away all my time and I fear I'll never live). Whenever I ask around irl, people either tell me: > Without the M. Sc., you'll regret it, because "Bachelor gibt es wie Sand am Meer" (everyone has a B. Sc.) and you'll never get the M. Sc. once working. It does matter nowadays to have a M. Sc. or > The M. Sc. is a waste of time. B. Sc. is enough, just work and never look back. Do you guys have any advice? I might do a Bioinformatics M. Sc. if I do go back, but I'm still looking into that.

>>38500 just reading your post, it sounds that you want to go into industry. The work/life balance and ability to actually start writing code is probably more valuable to you that whatever theoretical knowledge or marginal salary increase that would get after several more years in academia

>>38502 > just reading your post, it sounds that you want to go into industry. You are correct, I do want to go into industry and get my hands dirty. Work on projects and do my own (for which sadly, I personally have no time with all of the uni coursework). The tone of my post probably gives it away, but I tried to keep it neutral. I guess I have a case of FOMO. Where once I go into industry, I permanently lock myself out of whatever I could have gotten from putting in another 2/3 years. And vice versa, if I don't work now, I'll be 30, be behind and rapidly reach the stage of agism affecting me. My thoughts may be bs on both ends, pardon my inexperience. What I secretly hope, is for someone to greenlight the thought in the back of my head, that going into industry is the correct step and it'll serve me better. But be honest. If getting the master's serves me better in the long run, I'll gladly learn for another 2/3 years if I have to. > The work/life balance and ability to actually start writing code is probably more valuable to you that whatever theoretical knowledge or marginal salary increase that would get after several more years in academia Thanks for this anon. I'll keep it in mind, will probably find a job while doing my thesis.

>>38503 Unless you want to pursue a very specific career, for example, ML, optimization, or something like that, a master's won't make that much of a difference in the end. The two or three years of work experience you could get while you'd be in a masters is the big differential here. Although I'm speaking about my (small) experience with Switzerland and not Germany, so it *could* be different in there, but I highly doubt it. In the end though, you should just do what you want to do. It's not a race - technology is not going anywhere and there will be jobs tomorrow and in three years.

>>38500 Unless you have a desire to work in a niche field where a masters will help you, don't do it. I made the mistake of losing a year of my life to grad school. I don't know about the state of Europe, but in the US it only gets worse every year for new grads looking for jobs as CS graduation rates are on the rise and people who don't get jobs become influencers and pump out propaganda about how great life as a developer is.

>>38500 > Without the M. Sc., you'll regret it, because "Bachelor gibt es wie Sand am Meer" (everyone has a B. Sc.) and you'll never get the M. Sc. once working. It does matter nowadays to have a M. Sc. That is a load of BS if you ask me. Alot of the people here in my country say that "Work for 2-3 years and then go for a M. Sc.". I know a few who did this, then worked along side the M. Sc. and are still doing something or the other while working. Man did a PhD in some AI related stuff and then is completing his course in law while working as a top brass in management in XYZ company. Anon, I don't think you will get locked in once you start working. Just try not to increase the amount of liabilities before you start your M. Sc.

So, I recently managed to land like, a real sort of adult tech employment after graduating. I'm quite pleased. At the same time, the work is more sysadmin-y. I'm often debugging a scientific users' program or workflow, running big data transfer pipelines between research installations, and if I do any programming it ends up being mild HTTP REST API stuff in Python. How do I play this? I make a good "six figure" salary (although I live in a HCOL area, so it just about cancels out to "not impoverished"). At the same time I fear that sysadmin-type stuff is a road to relative stagnation. One doesn't really create value/features/whatever so much as act as a glorified janitor. What's the career path? If I'm to have a family or to own a home I need to increase this salary, to, more like 150-200k. I have an embedded project I am working on in my spare time. It is a niche project that will probably not see that many units sold. That seemed somewhat relevant to mention. I can do like, real "systems work", web development, and not just purely janitorial stuff too. Best

I feel bad for being extremely mediocre and incompetent and still getting good jobs. When I started the computer science course in 2009, there were 50 students in the same class, and I ended up dropping the course in the third year because I couldn't reconcile the time with the job I'd got. In that third year, there was just me and six other students who had started with me. I was always the mediocre student, I always depended on others doing their jobs so that I could copy from them. I was never creative and hardly did anything worthwhile at university. I was extremely lucky to pass an internship recommended by one of my professors. That internship guaranteed me better jobs in the future, but not on my own merits, but simply because I had the name of company Y printed on my CV. It's still the same today, I was "lucky" that one experience ended up taking me to another "better" one, which brought me to one of the biggest security companies in Europe. Meanwhile, I had colleagues, both on my course and at work, who were infinitely better than me and didn't have the same luck. Many of them have been unemployed for months, while I, a mediocre person, am employed and earning a better salary than most of the people I know. And no, I have no intention of resigning because of this, but I confess that I feel relatively guilty that the programming job market is so full of incompetent people. I'm part of that rotten statistic. What I do when I get the chance is that I nominate some colleagues who I consider to be competent in their work to work with me, but obviously the final decision is not mine but that of the HR staff. I'd like to be able to "change" the way HR staff hires. The current way opens up a lot of opportunities for incompetent people like me to be hired, while objectively good people end up being left out.

Big Rant For context, I'm a cybersecurity intern at a big corpo company (not FAANG but definitely one of the biggest company), Got hired by them oncampus. I used to work in a start up before this and was told by all of the adults that I will get something to learn in a big corporate company that I won't in startups (Spoiler alert: That was a big load of BS) Now fun begins, I thought it was a cybersecurity internship so maybe some cybersecurity and AI work? well guess what, nope, I am doing software development for them and it has no relations to cybersecurity. I was like yeah whatever, software development is my daily stuff so got ready to build whatever the project is. For the first week, my mentor/buddy at the company was working on their stuff and I was working on the llm related setups cause I didn't have the code ready to copy and paste from somewhere. Had to rewrite. From the next week, plans changed and the first phase was meant to be a simple button kinda frontend that they were working on (200ish lines of repetitive code). They tell me to start working with them on that code and well work work work and while working, they'd make me screenshare in the name of "working along with them". Me and everyone was like "It is her project so makes sense, she might be stressed" right? Then slowly, they'd just start offloading their work onto me? Like the manager would give them task A and give me task B and they would say let us drop on a call after the meet And in that they would put task A onto my head and say do it. And this would lead to task B getting left out. And when updating on the status, they would say "yeah this is done", "Yes working on it" and stuff like that and not "Yeah <myname> is working on it" or "Yes, we are working on it". It just looks like they are stealing credits from an intern?! come on how low do you have to be in life to do that. Also another thing to confirm this was when the manager pulled out a word file with all of the names of on going projects, my name wasnt there? but the mentor's name was there against the project? Okay? I see. The interns on the other team had their names infront of what they are working on so doesn't make sense why my name isn't there even if I am the only intern in this team. I joined the company cause I wanted to learn something and that the culture will be better than startups. Everything I am doing is what I have already done once so well not learning anything. The culture? I was learning more at the startup while being exploited less than what is happening here. Atleast over there, someone wasn't posing to be my senior and I knew I had to figure soykaf out. Over here, I ask the buddy something and they make me figure it out with little input from them while making me screenshare. Now, Startup, rarely any code reviews but there were some for knowledge transfers etc. Over here? Code is written by me, Reviewed by me, and pushed to production by me? I think I missed something... oh yeah last I checked, interns aren't supposed to be doing that. Training? whats that friend I can't even switch cause this was a campus hire and it is my last semester so I basically stuck here (they will decide my marks for this semester) All that is happened is that I lost a better offer from the startup and now I am just here stuck with soykaf cause this company has a good name. (There is no use in that either) Anyone else got this soykaf going on? (ofcourse while getting exploited as an intern)

>>38600 >they will decide my marks for this semester This is where you fuarrrked up. They know they've got leverage over you, so you're going to get exploited. Make the best of it, do the work, but never give extra. Think about how you're going to spin it in the interview for your next job. It's good to have responsibility as an intern, especially at a big corp where most interns just play on their phones after doing 5m of tasks a day. It sounds like you're on those update meetings, so be vocal about what you're doing. If it gets worse meet with the manager about it.

>>38600 >they'd make me screenshare in the name of "working along with them" Yeah this is training. >Then slowly, they'd just start offloading their work onto me Well you didn't really need much training. So they gave you experience instead. >my name wasnt there and earlier in the post >plans changed Maybe remind them your name is missing from the document? >not learning anything Are you sure about that? Seems like you are learning a bunch of stuff, some of it is probably stress induced though. >getting exploited as an intern lol they are going to give you a job offer

>>38607 >Yeah this is training. ;-; that's some wild way of training me. >Maybe remind them your name is missing from the document? Yes! I'll do that and get it on there. >Are you sure about that? Seems like you are learning a bunch of stuff, some of it is probably stress induced though. Yep, I'm sure about this. Atleast not learning anything much from them since I have implemented all of the concepts once before working here. But you would be right that I couldn't see what I learnt because of the stress >>38606 >Make the best of it, do the work, but never give extra. This is something I am actively trying to work on. I treat all of the projects I work on with utmost care, so I end up hyperfocusing on it and hence the over delivery sometimes. Most of the rant was cause I got jealous that the other interns were being treated like interns while I am here managing production servers and taking on some heat as if I'm their employee lol This won't be my first time acting like an employee, My previous internship was at a startup and those guys had much more than this. Left that for having a senior look at me and maybe learn a thing or two from them but eh? Nvm that now Gonna keep my head up and work properly. >>38607 >lol they are going to give you a job offer Hahaha I'll be glad if that happens. I'm still job hunting to look for what other companies are building.

>>38324 why you guys have such a cück mentality trying to get jobs with big corps when you can work on free software and cutting edge crypto/p2p while being completely anon? come home white man, come work on darkfi. or i guess you need an actual job application with interviews and stuff cos you are afraid to just make a single commit? genuinely curious what the obstacle seems to be. we are searching for ideological free software devs to get in early and be rewarded with upside after launch rather than hiring normal people from linkedin or wherever

>>38513 >>38517 >>38524 Thanks anons, that takes some of the worry off my mind. I'll sit and think about your posts and make a decision when it comes down to it, soon. Godspeed to you guys.

>>38621 The cybersecurity intern here from >>38600 Would love to work on darkfi but keeping my sustainability first would be a better idea I suppose? Gotta get paid to sustain myself. I use FOSS for whatever I can so can't say that I don't follow the free software ideology. Currently trying to get a PR merged into tinygrad repo (not that significant but it should make lives a bit easier with an additional function) so I am not afraid to make commits either. I love programming and would love to contribute for as long as I got the resources to do so. I don't necessarily follow the anon ideology. I like it but a form of trust is always appreciated between a group. As long as I get paid, I'll make good software. Doesn't have to be the greatest 10x engineer pay, I am not that. Quote a number for a junior in USD for me to not stick with big corpos like you said. I love working on cutting edge technology and tinygrad is one of those so can't say that I am lying xd Drop an email to establish further contact here: lainanon69@protonmail.com I'd join darkfi but I think it is a better idea to first establish that it is me and you that talk to each other.

>>38621 >why you guys have such a cück mentality trying to get jobs with big corps when you can work on free software and cutting edge crypto/p2p while being completely anon? come home white man, come work on darkfi. damn bitcoin retards are so charismatic and normal, I wonder why no one likes them

>>38648 Some of them are good but the ones who lick crypto's feet are the ones who weren't loved in their life

>>38646 > junior $4k 3 month trial, then bump to $6k/month > mid $6k trial => $8k > senior $8k trial => $10-12k add me on our chat here: [contact."narodnik"] contact_pubkey = "Didn8p4snHpq99dNjLixEM3QJC3vsddpcjjyaKDuq53d" >>38648 sounds like you don't do or make anything so i'm not concerned with your jealousy

>>38661 I was already talking in the #random channel [contact."airpods69"] contact_pubkey = "CoHPDJS6NzjLJKHq2dp3SPi4gKuPppmFGhwHVdmGsdT1"

>>38662 same intern here >>38661 Would be a good idea also to drop an email and you can confirm that it is the same person "airpods69"

Picture unrelated. >>38600 >they will decide my marks for this semester >>38606 > This is where you fuarrrked up. They know they've got leverage over you, so you're going to get exploited. Guess what I just got my ratings and they gave me average ratings HAH. (That too after making me build a feature in an hour without helping me out with my blocker so fuarrrk that soykaf) Well, now I am done with working hard for them. The ratings are going to decide my marks and if you gave me average ratings for my hard work then I am gonna give you average work back. Oh also this was just a mid semester evaluation so if now after all the work I got average, then I think it is safe to assume I'd get average ratings later on. Gonna start talking more to the manager about the progress than her. Lets see how it goes

>>38694 > Over here? Code is written by me, Reviewed by me, and pushed to production by me? not recommending this but what's stoping you from pushing a backdoor to their server

>>38695 Pride and I want to make stuff which solves a particular problem that a group is facing either using a product or a service. Nothing is really stopping me from pushing a backdoor but I have no reason or have the will to do it. Not like they don't pay me so it just boils down to having no senior to mentor me. *shrughs Would like to know your moral reasoning or thought process behind doing that.

how does work quality in the West compare to something like from SEA/India? I'm from SEA and our work quality doesn't feel so good compared to white people. Our project is a web-app built with Next.js 12 and Laravel. One dude from the United States helped our team but he just made a lot of mistakes in his pull request. I think Western programmers are smarter and produce high-quality code while we SEA programmers just create and ship features.

>>38723 I don't think you should dismiss your skills because of your place of birth. Most western programmers are like how you've described sea programmers (as an American). Very few Americans have the privilege to go to a good school that actually teaches their soykaf well too, especially during childhood.

>>38695 not saying i would do it i was just curious if you just could've,i wouldn't do it because it would probably bite me if they find out, i don't necessarily care about the morality of it if that much too ,but if you're misstreating you employees as a company you might need to be causiouse about what they push to your production repo

>>38118 That's just the HR new hire trying to get more brownie points. I don't think it's an actual meter that they'll start to hire more diverse employees, because we all know that no one who's like that would ever apply for a job at TAILS of all things.

>>38551 Bump. Does lain have any advice?

>>38747 >>38551 Im sorry I keep seeing this and then hoping someone with better advice than I could give you some thoughts but I guess no one will. First of all its probably worth thinking about what you do actually want. Do you want something that feels useful and important ? just crave money ? think you'd ideologically hate yourself if you worked someplace you politically found distasteful ? Maybe you're too fresh to have a well developed opinion on these questions. Sounds like you probably interface with academics or people who basically are academics. Do you find their work interesting ? seem like something you could do ? You could look at going to gradschool, or even just trying to cooperate and help them out, maybe even get your name on some papers. Academia isn't necessarily a great and reliable place to make money, but it can be if you're good and in the right field (in ten years, that is). Otherwise this could just maybe help you feel more useful, and build up a more interesting resume. If you want to have a family then have a family. I know people who are in areas just as expensive as yours or worse making less than you by a lot, and with multiple kids. You could manage. Don't put it off. >hobby projects IDK how things are nowadays but having a blog with this sort of stuff seemed to really help getting jobs a few years ago. People looking at applications get a lot of people where its really not clear can do anything or know anything. If you have a blog with some even not very impressive and perhaps quite incomplete projects that can help a surprising amount. For what its worth even if your job is janitorial feeling, that doesn't make it not useful. World is made up out of a lot of people most of them not doing that glamorous work. If you're doing good work and actually making things better in a small way I think there's some honor in that, lots of people do worse. Some people are bad at negotiating. If you get another job, do try to push the salary up a little bit. Keep in touch with your classmates or friends, they can be good ways to get other jobs later on. Good Luck!

>>38723 Consider studying the fundemnetals of CS that your schools don't teach you if you want to get good at computer science. Most Westerners are fairly bad at computer science and the schools teach the subject poorly. You can ascend your area and education and be better than most westerns with determination and self study

Has anyone attended an online school like WGU to get their degree? How has your experience been? I was thinking of going for this option because it would be more convenient for me and the other state schools in my area aren't very prestigious anyway (plus they are pretty expensive). I'm looking to go for CS to get a Bachelor's and I already have an Associates degree from a community college. As for job prospects, I'm currently looking into web development or cloud engineering.

>>38402 I did somewhat the same, at somewhat similar time and age, but it was actually spelled out to me by certain american science fiction author in the 50s, I think, so nothing new under the sun. The situation is dire but in a different way. You are making wrong assumption it does matter. It was actually like that for almost 100s years, so nobody living unless vampire, practically remembers anymore, how it actually should be.

>>38844 Not to be a pest, because I probably don't fully disagree with you, but "how it actually should be" is a meme. The human condition, for better or for worse, is primarily (although not exclusively) shaped by things like science and technology. The Neolithic revolution didn't happen because some guys decided "hey we want everyone to be farmers now lol"; it happened because we discovered agriculture, and those that went along with it outcompeted those that didn't. There's no escape from the ruthless march of progress besides death and/or some kind of apocalyptic event. You can delay it, and in certain limited circumstances temporarily reverse it, but at the end of the day, those that embrace progress are the ones that win history. In other words, Ted was right, but for the wrong reasons.

>>38865 >at the end of the day, those that embrace progress are the ones that win history. Elite units lose to numbers. Low tech persists because resource limitations constrain gearing everyone out. AK47 hasnt got the best stats but its commonly called best because it was best at being mass produced. I would say electron is the same soykaf in programming - its garbage in performance but its reliable easy to use garbage which is why its finds wider use than better tech nowadays.

>>38326 There are still a few healthcare companies who use proprietary languages and probably need people who can modify their compilers/interpreters. I'd assume the same is true in a few other specialized industries. The issue is these proprietary legacy languages are horrible and outdated so you're going to be tasked with doing band-aid fixes at companies with subpar salary bands if you go this route.

>>38069 I'm looking for a new career. I have three choices: should I go for... (1) IT networks/sysadmin (2) Ai (3) embedded systems programming/IoT I know how to use and maintain GNU/Linux (Arch, Gentoo, Debian), I know basics of C, Python, R5RS and Bash. But I'm interested in your opinions. Also, are there job opportunities in these fields?

>>38917 AI is saturated so I'd say don't go into it for a career, keep learning bout it from the side lines though. Embedded systems programming is fun and good for a career if you like dealing with low level stuff. I'd say pretty good scope over here since advancements in AI or any other field usually depends on the hardware so you won't be out of the CS world. Sysadmins are needed for a multitude of reasons ofcourse, you got the right knowledge too, basics of Linux, python and bash so you can get into it easily. Just my 2 cents. AI might not be a good field to enter but you can if you believe you got what it takes and have the hardware to run models with.

Yeah I totally agree with the guy above. Personally, just go sysadmin, that's what I'm planning. When you said AI I was like uhhh... maybe not. Just remember you just do a job to get money and eat hotdogs and soykaf and it's really nothing else. So, I would pick sysadmin. 1) It's more accessible 2) It pays well 3) You work with computers obviously that's what you want 4) Most likely your scripting skills will come in handy depending on what you end up doing, there are different kinds of sysadmins. 5) Room for advancement 6) Etc. IT is a rewarding career I hear, so go for it.

Hi, I am an undergraduate and I keep hearing how important a portfolio/github is. Any ideas what I should make? Should I do leetcode?

>>39012 Yolo, in the same boat as you. And yes, github is super important since it shows the work you actually did and the quality of it. No one will give a damn about the quantity if you do good work. Quality can be a very subjective thing. Quality for you ,anon, would be doing something which you are uncomfortable with and it is a bit out of your comfort zone. Maybe try helping out a user with a issue in some open source project that you use? Then if you can learn about the technology behind a project, do that? and Maybe try making a small mock clone of the project, this should let your understand the project well. You could even make a contribution to the project in question or maybe just drop in what you think and how it can be done, the community usually is glad to help you out through it. Learn! Leetcode is also important so don't forget to do that. No, I don't mean doing thousands of questions of that soykaf. No. The concepts of data structure, that will help you out from your junior days to your senior software development days. Those who say it wont, they are just making soydev stuff using frameworks, real problem solving needs Data Structure and Algorithms and you can practice that either using leetcode (easy way) or implementing the learnt data structure in a project. I personally did both, Blind 75 from Neetcode and also implementing data structures in my projects. The more you learn lad, the better it is! > Any ideas what I should make? Well, make whatever you want to? If you wish there was some app to do, maybe, record your voice and jot down important points from it, make that app yourself instead of going to the app store/play store. I mean it is just a clone but if you got time, do this. Problem solving is what you want to do instead of specializing in a specific field unless you know that is where you want to be! Don't forget to also keep posting about what you did. Write a blog about what you learnt and post it on linkedin or some place. This gives you a memory lane for future you to go through and see how much you learnt if you end up feeling depressed and like a loser (I do even though people say otherwise, so trust me) You got this, anon! Post up again soon about how things are going.

I have a job interview tomorrow and I have zero (0) projects to show because I couldn't be bothered to code during my free time in uni. I'm also really bad at selling myself or communicating in general so I'll just embarrass myself and be done with it. Feels extra awful because I got this interview through nepotism so that's a squandered opportunity that most get only after sending soykaf ton of applications

>>39028 Suggesting leet code is fairly advice. One can learn data structures better by studying them and playing around with an implentaiton, api, and getting a feeling of the Big O of operations. In many applications common data structures naturally occur. From there you can implement some of the structures found and use your own version instead. I'd recommend writing in lisp as the lack of sugar let's the users version appear the same as the base languages. Leetcode is really only there to grind for FAGMAN interviews which is a waste of time, as there are more high leverage study methods that isn't memorizing answers. I studied purely functional data structures before a Jane street interview when I was first starting off, which is vastly superior to Leetcode grinding

I studied networking but currently I've been going more into webdev stuff, right now I'm working on migrating/recreating an old site of a nonprofit from Drupal7 to Wordpress and making a mobile application of it. Through this and from family and friends I've found potential to do more websites and I'm thinking of starting a company for selling my services, webdev and various IT consulting. I'm thinking of using my contact to this nonprofit as a foot in the door for other nonprofits. I don't really like webdev at all and I'm hoping to study for some certificates to eventually get a stable DevOps job in the future. But gotta stay busy and keep working and collecting experience even if it's not perfect.

>>39034 Hey anon, how did it go?

>>39074 Actually pretty well. They didn't ask about projects at all but I was also severely sleep deprived so I might've acted weirdly without knowing. I'm still waiting for the reply but I feel like I did not embarrass myself after all!

>>38069 What happened to the computer science industry? The moment I graduated in 2023, me and almost all of my fellows are still unemployed a year later. What the hell? Where did the opportunities we were promised go? How can I still make it into the industry?

>>39148 Market is soykaf right now. It'll improve, or it won't, who knows. The main thing is if anyone ever told you that you can get a high paying job without any real skills and hard work, that was a lie. There are still jobs, you just have to be better than the other thousands of CS grads with no experience.

>>39148 companies are legally required to hire locally first. So they make a obligatory fuss how there are no local hires before they can grab underpaid indians &co on visas. And secondary there is no cost for them to creating legions of unemployed while picking up the best people in a over saturated market. Also fb made news pretending to hire while instructing HR to only post job offers without hiring to front as a growing business to scam investors. My guess its a lot more common than just one company.

>>39148 Like the other anon posted, the market is like kicking dead whales down the beach for the moment. I;m a bit more optimistic and think things will improve eventually, though who knows when that will be. What I would do in your shoes is apply to any and every posting. Make sure to filter job postings by most recent, I've had the most success getting call backs by doing that. Oh, and because the market is like kicking dead whales down the beach, you might have to take a crappy software job to start. My first tech job was crap, I had a narcissistic boss and got paid peanuts, but I was able to leverage that experience to get a better job.

>>39148 I got a job by focusing on the science behind the actual field I was interested in rather than the "CS"... Sounds dumb, but I got a job because I knew about orbital mechanics and basic DSP, not because I could write C++.

>>39151 Wait til they find out about the amount of coding jobs that Applied Physics / Math grads are taking from CS grads because entry level programming is dog soykaf easy.

>>39148 Tech corps are banking hard on "AI" and/or cheap foreign labor making traditional low-skill code monkey jobs obsolete. You'll have to have actual domain-specific knowledge or expertise to get the high-paying white collar job you were promised in college.

>>39170 >Make sure to filter job postings by most recent This! Another thing is to reach out directly to whoever posted the job. I got a job six months ago. There were a thousand applicants in one day. They closed the listing, but I was genuinely interested, so I emailed the CEO (it's a startup he posted the job). >>39199 is also sound advice.

>>38697 you're a cybersecurity intern rite? show them the hole

>>38621 >for ideological free software devs to get in early and be rewarded with upside after launch sure but how about you pay a monthly $10k salary until then it's not hard just take a loan you will be rich anyway right, crypto-onii-san

>>39148 you believed what you read on the internet, silly nobody wants juniors, they want seniors. you're in school until you're upper medior/senior in their eyes

>>39221 The cybersecurity intern here. It's pretty late and I just logged off from work. Been getting milked way too much F. What do you mean by "show them the hole"?

>>39223 >sure but how about you pay a monthly $10k salary until then it's not hard just take a loan you will be rich anyway right, crypto-onii-san Yolo, not the same guy but >>39225 >you believed what you read on the internet, silly >nobody wants juniors, they want seniors. you're in school until you're upper medior/senior in their eyes Nobody wants seniors either imho They want cheap labour who can do the work...

>>39223 >sure but how about you pay a monthly $10k salary until then it's not hard just take a loan you will be rich anyway right, crypto-onii-san Apologies I misreplied earlier. Anyways, if I were you, I'd give it a shot. :D Trust the cybersecurity intern.

Oh my fuarrrking god, it's all sociopaths isn't it? The tech industry is fuarrrking brutal. I thought my skills were normal as a sheltered teen, but NO my skills are something 0.5% or likely less of the global population could ever dream of having. And the people with these skills tend to be ABSOLUTELY INSANE, like zero empathy. WHAT THE fuarrrk!!! I'm just a nerd that likes automating silly tasks and customizing computers yet it's getting me paid so much so easily. It's making me want to disappear and live in nature.

After graduating this spring, I managed to get a contract position maintaining COBOL for an insurance company. What am I in for?

>>39288 Sorry I can't ansert your question, instead I've got more questions How does one get a COBOL job today? How do they know you are good with COBOL?

>>39308 I didn't know it was COBOL when I applied. The job listing made by the contracting company didn't mention that. The insurance company expects me to learn on the job, and I think COBOL dependents are willing to take anyone with enough CS experience at this point.

>>39283 Story time? I can relate to this to some extent. Either way, I wish you godspeed in your endeavors.

>>39311 >>39308 yeah finance things, im pretty sure some banks are still using it too

>>39200 My team lead graduated with a math degree, easily one of the smartest people I know and a great coder.

I'm gonna graduate at 30 am I cooked

>>39354 Nah, plenty of people I work with graduated at or around 30. As long as you're good at what you do, you won't have issues. Most of the people I worked with who graduated at this age however have been abysmal (some didn't even know what a ternary operator was!) so being good in the technical side is a massive plus.

>>39355 >As long as you're good at what you do I'm not yet but I'm hoping hard work will pay off

>>39355 gotta be more specific. There is a difference in not memorizing terms and not knowing the application. Ive been using a? b :c for a decade but i never considered what people call it because i had no need for that. Had to google term operator to know what you mean.

Hi lainons, I just lost my job last month and now I can't find anything. I'm a web developer for 5 years, mainly Javascript, React and Next.js. I live in the Philippines and man it is like kicking dead whales down the beach. I also do not have a college degree. Any copium for me or advice that can surely help me now? All the jobs I have sent were not replying, maybe they are fake job postings. Maybe it was my resume, I'm not really sure. I really need to eat while still pursuing my career, applying for a dead-end job will not help me.

About 6 years ago I graduated in CS from an esteemed honors state school. I've been a neet ever since. I graduated with no portfolio and no programming skill. I never even took calculus 1. I have been profoundly depressed ever since. I can't do anything anymore and I have not touched a computer in 6 years. Is there any hope for me? I just feel so sad. This whole thing has been ruined for me.

>>38350 Kinda the same, even when I was working in an office I would get all my good work done before lunch and then after that I kinda just sat around and watched YouTube and kept rebuilding everything. Maybe other people are build different or whatever but I really only have so much mental energy to expend thinking about code. After moving to working from home I work even less. Somedays I do literally nothing and just come up with bullshit in my meetings. That's just because I'm lazy and easily distracted though.

>>39355 Do you need to be "good"? Because I interned at a place, and I hope I'm not inflating my own self image. But the people I worked with don't strike me as particularly great. They were great mentors but I didnt feel like an idiot compared to them.

>>39386 >honors state school >never even took calculus 1 >no programming skill Not exactly sure how this is possible. Anyways,if you actually have the degree, you have such an insane leg up on people who have no degree and are going through bootcamps and whatnot. Just... do some projects?

>>39377 I work with an offshore team in the Phillipines but they don't do webdev. With that much experience you should be good. If you can't get interviews have someone review your resume and call in any favors you have to get recommendations. >>38350 Don't obsess over being "productive" every hour on the clock. Your boss is stealing surplus labor anyway. I get 6-7 proper development hours in and the rest goes to meetings or breaks. I used to be more of a slacker, but the secret everyone who gets soykaf done that I know uses is to time themselves and take breaks (also timed). I do 45m work, 15m break where i physically step away from the PC. If I feel like I'm really in a flow I put the break off for later >>39386 You'll need a narrative about what happened, but you can probably land a Junior dev job if you try. You can just lie as long as it's not something they can verify e.g. caring for elderly relative.

I've been working as a web developer since 2019. Tomorrow I'll have my first interview for a senior position on an European company. The recruiter said it wouldn't be a technical interview but I will be asked about my career. What exactly they expect from me? They already know I'm not a senior webshitter right now, but they were fine to continue with the interview anyway. What can I say to impress them? What would you expect from a mid level programmer trying a senior position?

aa0f636a3822417307934e80762c96926d8909f5b93c3e82efbe2de922c23e37 For europeans and north americans lainons, do you guys see realocated employees as a threat for you? I'm dreaming about being realocated to anyplace far way from my mother country, but the bar set for jobs there are very high (I'm consider myself a good developer, direct converting my salary is 5k USD) and job applications there ask for differenct kind of skills (alogorithm, design system AND specifc knowledge of the job itself). I'm studying your model of interview and hope one day get some opportunity but for you natives, how do you see working with foreing employee? If anyone have mercery of this miserable developer, any recommendation will save my life. I really claiming for help INB4: flood detected

>>39508 I think most programmers are retarded subhumans who are overcompensated considering their skillset. Third world labour can absolutely replace the majority of these jobs and drive down wages, which is a good thing. It's far more likely that this happens than LLMs replacing any jobs.

>>39508 The reason this doesn't happen anywhere near as much as you'd expect is the level of developer quality is vastly different from country to country. I don't mean this to try and dunk on you at all either, the differentiating factor is the level of communication skills. I've 100% worked with excellent developers from all kinds of third world soykafholes but the thing they all had in common was flawless English. And I mean flawless. You can practice algorithms all day if you like but if you can't even spell it in English you're going to have a bad time.

>>39508 I don't have any recommendation on the relocation side as I've worked mostly with offshore contractors. Be prepared to leetcode. Practice explaining what you're doing out loud in English while you solve them. A prop like a stuffed animal or rubber duck helps. Also seconding what >>39510 said. >developer quality is vastly different from country to country This is largely determined by the investment into educational infrastructure. It's why India, Philippines, and China take most the US contracts though Latin America is closer. >all had in common was flawless English If you can read and write on this site unassisted you'll have no trouble with the language barrier.

>>39508 You need to improve your english. It's clearly insufficient. - You need to be better than "functional". When discussing complex fuzzy concepts you can't be struggling with the language, you need to be focused on the problem. American software engineering places a high premium on ability to speak and write. - Having an accent is fine. Don't worry about discrimination. Half the guys I work with are from foreign countries on work visas, nobody cares. We all make too much money to worry. That being said, I've been at a few companies where they outsourced work to guys in Eastern Europe, and you probably don't need excellent English for that. Those guys will have more useful advice for you than we would.

>>39509 What do you mean when you say "most programmers?"

>>39508 If I ever see someone who is a foreigner at my company I'll try not to help them or hire them because I know it's going to depress wages for actual Americans It's unlikely you'll ever get sponsored to leave your soykaf hole country via a tech job the best you can do is make a lot of money and try to get in through marriage or etc. The reason western tech jobs have so many applicants is because there are 2000+ people in your situation applying to all our jobs to be immediately rejected because the company does not sponsor visas.

I think you guys are seriously overrating the impact of AI, Twitter layoff fiasco, etc. and downplaying the actual factor of rates being 3x+ what they were during 2021 and early 2022. The Fed is inducing a recession to prevent inflation and there's nothing we can do about it on a macro level. Best thing is probably to have a backup plan in an industry that is not rate dependent >>39354 It doesn't matter when you graduate, if you have good tempo and put in 50-60 hour weeks combined working + upskilling you'll outpace 95% of devs soon, a junior at faang makes more than seniors elsewhere >>39283 A portion of people who are insanely good at tech are very autistic, sheltered, privileged, lacking empathy, and just generally not great people because they're compensating for some very serious issue with their self esteem. I dated one and it got really fuarrrking annoying. >>39203 The vast majority of the current tech downturn is due to rates set by the fed and not because AI has started automating any serious amount of work yet. >>39148 Rate hike to try to avoid hyper inflation after fed irresponsibly printed trillions of dollars for PPP fraud and other programs like paying people more on unemployment than they got working during covid Too many people went into tech and that was fine when we had historically low 2% interest rates which were essentially corporate welfare (quantitative easing) but was not sustainable

Is there actually good reason not to go for COBOL jobs, or is it like the story of $100 on the ground and nobody picks up it up because there couldn't possibly be $100 just sitting on the ground for anyone to pick up?

>>39543 What job are you finding? I've never seen one of these mythical postings. And they want graybeards who are already experts in cobol or old esoteric systems. Like the rest of this industry they don't want to train you

>>39544 I never looked for it, just seen many people saying it's so easy and pays a lot.

>>39544 its not that they dont want to train you, the issue is that there was only one person who knew how to do it at the company and they retired, they couldnt train u even if they wanted to

>>39543 I remember a city government, it may have been New Jersey, asking for COBOL programmers back in 2020. Now, the programmers weren't needed anyway, it was just an excuse, but I'll never forget that the programmer with this valuable knowledge was asked to work for free.

there are libraries that will do matrix multiplications on gpu, modern gpu has 1000+ processing units so its beating cpu by far if you can parallelize a task. Just gotta find something with C bindings if you need C also fml >>39675 fat fingered and now suffering "flood detected" >-< please implement empty = discard post when you already have a post limit

Nearing the end of a coop internship (paid) at a company I wanted to keep good relations with for future options. I get the impression that I blew it. In nearly three months I have merged only two branches, and they've mostly been assigning me information gathering tasks. Stuff like profiling programs, finding bottlenecks or quantifying the possible gains from optimizing a module. I haven't written much code, and all the code I do write is for throwaway purposes and won't find its way into the repository. I haven't been given any negative feedback though, so I can't tell if this is because of my previous performance being sub par or not. Should I just directly ask my supervisor if that's the case?

I'm a Go developer of 2 years and I have an interview for a .NET role tomorrow. My C# knowledge is limited to a udemy course, but it's something I want to get into as it is a very popular language in my country. How can I display that I can learn quickly and be a good fit for the job? Yes I am aware I should have built projects but this opportunity sort of fell in my lap. Projects will happen after this interview if I fail.

>>39679 Yes, set up a meeting to find out what they thought of your performance. Tell them straight up that you are interested in working for them. Be forward with your wants and questions. It sounds like now is the perfect time to do this.

I'm so fuarrrked. I don't even know what I like anymore. I left my last job at the worst possible time because it was driving me insane and I wasn't eating or sleeping. I don't even know if I like this stuff anymore. I've been applying for almost a year to entry level positions. I'm thanking my past self for having the forethought to save up as much of an unemployment fund as much as I possibly could, but it feels soykafty to blow my savings on just haunting my apartment and applying to jobs that I won't get while working on portfolio projects I don't care about. It's not the end of the world, there are swarms of food service jobs in my area once my funds run low but damn. I put in so much work on the technical side of things, and performed well in college and in internships and co-ops, but it still isn't enough to have people look past my abysmal people skills and admittedly soykafty (read: working incredibly intensely and then falling off) work ethic. I can't be too mad, what's happening to the industry now especially in the junior to mid range positions just seems like chickens coming home to roost, I just wish my younger self had decided to keep tech as a hobby. I never specialized in anything because I liked all of it, and now I like none of it. I hope this doesn't discourage anyone, if you have more fight than I do you'll be fine, I just don't. If you have something you love then keep with it, otherwise fuarrrk it. Being a barista isn't so bad

>>39716 What do you wish you were doing instead? I've been unemployed for like 5 years and I'm nearly 30. I'm fuarrrked. I've been going to school part time for the past couple years to possibly get a degree in software development, but I'm already starting to think I should have kept it as a hobby, not that I dislike tech stuff I just don't know if I'm ready for corporate bullshit to ruin something that I enjoy. I also don't know what else to do. I don't know how to make money

>>39288 Update, it's been over a month since I started this job, and I still haven't done any real work. They pay me for nothing pretty much. All I do is go to the daily, 9am scrum meeting and say "in progress, no issues". What's in progress? My "training", which I don't know what actually entails or when would be considered complete. I have a senior member in my team(which I think is just me and him) who's supposedly responsible for training me. I've had a few calls with him, where he rushes through using this archaic terminal front-end for mainframes called an ISPF through an emulator. The thing excepts inputs that don't even exist on a modern keyboard like the "PA1" key. Honestly, it's not COBOL that's unattractive about this type of work so much as the tooling. He also mentioned something about documenting some code so I can learn, but also said he doesn't really care about it and our manager just mentioned it to him at some point. Honestly, I'm worried they'll randomly fire me. It's a year long contract and I haven't checked whether they can do that or not. I think I'd rather not know.

>>39723 if you give up on this job, spend forty hours a week at your desk learning marketable technologies.

folks i made this meme to express humourosly a choice one makes at the start of their career. you ask yourself, am i going to be one of the computer guys, or is this just going to a be job? personally i look at the people for whom it's just a job, and i don't understand them. if you're not in love with computers, this soykaf seems like it'd be miserable. i'm sure the non-computer-guys look at me with similar confusion about my life choices. it's a false dichotomy anyways, it's all truly very blurry. but i think some of you might enjoy this meme anyways.

>>39723 I had a job like this, it was really sucky and really awesome at the same time. Getting paid SWE money to sit in my parent's house and watch YouTube videos all day. Be careful, you might find yourself a few years down the line looking for another job with nothing interesting on your resume and your skills will get rusty if you don't use them. I'm going to guess it's a big company? They don't value you, you're just another software engineer on the payroll numbers. You probably won't get fired unless you do something unbelievably stupid or the company starts losing a lot of money.

>>39723 A buddy of mine coasted and did nothing for two years in a situation like this and now he’s fuarrrked for finding a job. Nobody wants to hire a slacker that clearly did nothing for two years at their last job. Start looking for a new job now.

>>39732 IDK how it is for programmers right now but for harder engineers the situation seems pretty rough just for the time being

>>39725 Why is this k8s red and on the right? There seems to soykafton of demand for devops dudes

>>39739 This. Should have been Nix. You really can have both though. Just got back from the club with my coworkers and fixed a bug that's been pissing me off. >>39732 >Start looking for a new job now. Leaving a junior position after a month is gonna look a lot worse than not having your contracted renewed a year in because you're a slacker. Take it from someone who got canned for slacking and went on to find engaging work. That lain should be begging for tasks or more likely this >>39724

>>39682 Update, I've gotten a final interview. I will be given some code and tasks to do and I'll need to talk through my thinking as I do them. I'm gonna try and study as much C# and .NET as I can. I'm so fuarrrking used to using google/AI while coding.

>>39731 >>39732 How would they know that I didn't do anything? I now have something to put on my resume, and I can just lie about not doing anything. Either way, I should definitely start learning something useful. Thinking about getting an AWS developer certification. Or something... I'd appreciate ideas.

>>39747 It’s really fuarrrking obvious when someone doesn’t have anything to show for the last two years. Expectations rise rapidly after your first few years of experience. It’s hard to lie about these things when someone starts digging in. Suggestion for a project: Make a little website that you can upload a video to and let you trim/crop/compress it. Orchestrate using k3s, write your server in golang (or python) and have it basically just wrap ffmpeg. Use AWS, try to only use ec2/s3 (avoid EKS/ECS). You’ll learn network routing, docker, kubernetes, AWS, API design, the full stack. Actually, probably best to start with an image compression/resize service. Probably easier than video. You can also skip learning all those brutally complicated technologies I mentioned and use nextjs/vercel, or something similarly simple. You can then put your video tool behind OAuth, and set it up with Stripe so people can pay a buck for the service. Boom, you’ve made a whole startup. Obviously this isn’t going to be getting users or making money, but you’ve gained EXTREMELY useful skills that can kickstart a high-paying career. Doing this is much harder than it seems, but if you accomplish this it’ll probably change your life. In my part of the industry certificates have negative value, it’s a sign you’re the wrong kind of engineer. But they may work for your industry, and they may have educational value.

>>39748 How common is it for people to work on personal projects while having a full time SW job? No one in my workplace does this, including me. Obviously it will set you apart for future opportunities, but the best devs in my workplace put all their focus on the companies product.

>>39725 >if you're not in love with computers, this soykaf seems like it'd be miserable. give me a 6 figure salary with little physical exertion and i'll find happiness wherever you send me.

>>39750 >six figure such low ambition

>>39748 your writing style and your view is so familiar i swear, torp?

>>39749 Personally, I only do side projects for fun nowadays. Most recently made cli version of Conways Game of Life in C. I try to maintain some degree of aptitude with languages and technologies I'm not using professionaly right now. But it's really just a hobby I pursue for luls rather than as a career aid.

>>39752 no sorry. >>39749 it's not common but it's not very rare.

>>39749 Fresh out of college SWE here, working in a startup and I try my best to make out time for personal projects or atleast try making out time for open source contributions. (though been really bad at it, but we try). Company specific projects are cool but personal projects are more enjoyable and nothing for upskilling myself. Just fun and games programming challenges. AI related SWE engineer, started off with blockchain and GPU programming XD

>>39754 Is that CLI Game of Life available on GitHub? Love to show my professor and play with it myself.

>>39777 >(((github))) It's not online anywhere yet but I'll post a link in this thread when that changes.

>>39777 https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life Enjoy.

>>39723 you need to find something to occupy yourself. you need to keep learning or create a schedule to teach yourself something new. i've been in your situation and you will go insane or into depression at the prospect of being laid off because you have zero impact at your job. take this time to learn the ins-and-outs of the systems while you can so you can at least have some amount of leverage under your belt. and then coast while creating a healthy schedule.

>>38328 Same here lainon, I get unofficially paid to work on backend projects for matrix.org.

Internship is coming to an end. My supervisor's superior asked when I graduate. This seems to imply that they're interested in hiring me following my graduation, is there any other way to interpret this here? I answered the question straightforwardly, but haven't gotten a reply. Not sure what to think

>>39866 I wouldn't get my hopes up if that was all I had to go on. They might just want to know when to cut off your access. Good luck, though.

For Java programmers, how did you get your first job? I have some basic Spring projects but without any experience I feel like I'll be like this forever.

>>40020 At least state your country of location. Stuff looks different in the US and in Poland and in India etc.

>>38324 Still hiring? Kinda bored so I'll drop in a PR or two.

>>38552 If you get the job and keep it, you are competent for the job. >>38600 the right move here was to confront the manager for better pay but this seems to have been 7 months ago now

>>39074 >>39078 Edit: They ghosted me after the interview. No reply whatsoever

>>39723 >Update, it's been over a month since I started this job, and I still haven't done any real work. They pay me for nothing pretty much. All I do is go to the daily, 9am scrum meeting and say "in progress, no issues". What's in progress? My "training", which I don't know what actually entails or when would be considered complete. lmao that's pretty Kafkaesque

2030's HRs be like

>>40113 Hey there kind lainanon The same cybersecurity intern here! I did ask for a better pay when they were offering a job but they denied it and said can't do it. I already had a more competitive offer at the time so I said that it's all good and ended the relationship there. Been alot better since then and I'm starting to get into open source dev as well

>>40137 Don't ask your employer for better pay. If you already have a job and you want something to change that will in any way degrade the company's profits, the main motive behind their existence, then they probably aren't going to give it to you because you asked. It's better to organize a strike with your colleagues and make demands that will benefit you and your colleagues.

How do I get out of a JS developer job? The job itself is perfect except for the fact that I'm tired of writing in JS. I don't even know how people switch stacks. Should I just apply to jobs even though I have no working experience in the language? I'm pretty sure I can pick stuff up quickly but it seems like I'd have a significant disadvantage compared to other applicants.

Is uuhhh unpaid internship worth it? I have a CS degree and I have started to write programs during my free time. I wonder if it's better to just keep on doing my projects or be slave labor for some time

>>40196 Not really. Even consultancies and government jobs still pay something. I'm surprised you can't get hired at all with a finished degree. Is the job market for programmers that bad in your neck of the woods?

>>40165 Are you tired of JS or WebDev, if its just the JS you still have Go, Python, Java, C# and PHP to migrate to. Best way to change stack is to build something for yourself, some tool that will benefit you, while doing that do it only new stack.

My previous client's job is over and I started a new one. I was very comfortable before: it was stuff I knew how to do and I started the project so I was king. I got moved to a new client for maintenance work and I am out of water: this is completely new stuff for me, I know next to nothing about cloud computing and i am also missing all the knowledge of the project. This is so frustrating, all the tickets seem so simple on paper and yet I'm struggling so much. I thought I was a much better programmer, this is a real hit to my confidence

>>40196 If you’re stuck in the cams graduate hell where you can’t get a job no matter how much you try it could be worth it. Why is slaving yourself away worth it ? Because they literally don’t care about anything other than what you can do . Programming is just a skill and you will gather lots of different skills that may or may not make use of programming in order to absorb them. Of course , all of this only applies if you wish to seek a nice position in some nice corporation and life a nice life that you choose to. Your personal projects are like going to the gym. Your muscle is yours to develop . You should if you wanna get strong

>>40165 Learn other languages ! There’s so many resources out there. Here’s an idea for a project you can do in any language: build your own FTP client and server. Learn about implementing security with openSSL libs and turn it into SFTP. Do some sysadmin work: leave it running in your home server, do some port forwarding and access your ftp server from Starbucks thru ur laptop . It’s fun and educational Obviously none of that constitutes work experience. In order to do that: use git actions or azure devops (free) to set up some pipelines written in yaml that just check if your newly pushed code builds or not. And then you can tell them you have pipeline know how with projects written in (insert language here). Get the azure free trial and write some soykafty Powershell code to spin up a VM from your hacker windows CLI. Choose pubkey authentication as preferred ssh auth method. Choose all the soykaf you want so that when they ask you things you can tell a cute Silicon Valley tale about why you chose it . Choose windows . Choose some bull soykaf hippie Linux distribution . Choose Life But yeah the more you do for yourself the more you’ll learn. I wouldn’t cry too much about JS though, I’m on the same boat and it sails without a lot of problems u know

I'm about to graduate with my CS degree in may, no job lined up yet. I guess I should start looking. I have 20 months of programming work experience from coop but I don't really feel particularly competent. 16 months were at the same company but they only really hire masters/phds for full time employees so I don't expect to be able yo arrange anything with them. Any advice? I hear the job market is bad right now

>>40231 Thank you, lain. I needed that.

>>40414 If the 16 month internship kept asking you to come back there’s a good chance they’ll hire you on as full time. Try to reach out to any managers you were useful to at that company. Don’t worry about policies.

>>40196 Anywhere that can't pay you isn't worth working for. You should just lie on your resume, network, interview prep, continue portfolio work, self teach to fill in gaps if your education was subpar. Consider moving to an area with more tech jobs. At least in the USA, any company with unpaid interns writing code must be a fuarrrking soykaf show, and they will teach you bad habits anyway. >>40165 The vast majority of the job is understanding protocols and how the stack functions. If you know how to write a full stack app with js you could start with swapping out the back end lang, or DB, or auth method, etc. >>40020 Lang really doesn't matter so much as the product the company works on. Java at a scientific computing place and Java at a CRUD place are going to be very different beasts and how you approach them should be very different too. >>39723 Idk if you're still around but for a lot of these older proprietary companies the training period can be 6 months to a year, just chill out and ask if you're doing well with your manager. Do extra stuff in your free time or apply for jobs if you're bored. I have a similar job and they're transitioning me to devops soon and paying me to do google cloud certs. On second hand though what you said makes me think I lucked out in comparison, because we had modern build pipelines, testing, version control, all that.

Can Lain give me some advice please? I've been working as a Linux admin for 1.5 years now. At work I've automated quite a lot of stuff and started writing various scripts and tools; started with shell scripts, then I wrote a few internal and external tools in PHP and I'm currently learning GO in my free time. My biggest project used in production so far is an Ansible web interface designed around the quirks of my work environment. It is ~2500 LOC of mostly PHP and a some Python to integrate with Ansible (that's still considered really small I think, no?). Lately programming these tools has become the most fun part my job for me and I kind of want to grow more into that field. At my current employer that isn't really possible. I am the only real sysadmin besides some network guys, supporters and my boss - who is pretty knowledgeable but these days has little time for actual hands on work and for being a mentor sadly. 5 months ago I started pursuing a comp sci degree part time, to better my chances at jobs, to maybe one day use it to get the fuarrrk out of my country and because i just personally wanted to do it for myself and get a depper understanding of what i'm doing. For the last few weeks I've become really unsure of where I wanna go in my life. I kinda like the classic Linux sysadmin job, but being a dev also sounds exciting. But in that case I'm not even sure which niche. Webdev - with more of a backend focus sound interesting. I'm probably to dumb for low level soykaf. Do devops guys do real meaningful development or is it just like build and infrastructure automation? When I'm looking at listings now, I'm honestly getting really intimidated. So much stuff I don't know. x years experience in that, y years experience in that. The country I'm eyeing to maybe one day move to has a pretty big shortage of devs but seeminlgy little need for sysadmin guys. But currently that's more something I'm fantasizing about rather than an actual plan. Maybe that's subconsciously influencing me though? Should I start applying for dev jobs soon? Or should I wait like 4 years until I have my bachelors? I'm planing to create some projects in GO in the coming months and release them on GitHub. I have some ideas for actual useful tools I think. Probably also learn some of these soykaf JS frameworks. I really hope someone can extract some meaning out of my ramblings and give me some meaningful advice. Thanks Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA!

>>40560 >So much stuff I don't know. x years experience in that, y years experience in that. I think these kinds of listing are just qualities they find to be optimal for the job they are hiring for, but not a necessity. They are nonetheless intimidating for me, too. It gives an very vague idea of how big their projects are, imo.

>>40560 if you're doing that stuff you're already more competent and qualified than most devs with >5yoe. the average dev learns the bare minimum to halfass the job and then stops learning. really if you just get your foot in the door at a job doing the kind of dev work you want to do, maybe do some practice projects, the rest is stuff you should learn on the job and not waste time in uni. also, realistically, probably nothing is stopping you from developing those skills in your current position. learn modern software engineering best practices, learn about the best modern tech stacks and apply it to your current job. some suggestions if you're not doing this already: >set up CICD pipelines for your projects with automated tests >set up monitoring/observability >set up fault tolerance, disaster recovery, etc >stop doing bash scripts (NOT maintainable) and write your scripts in the language you want to use professionally (eg that could be python, c#, rust, go, whatever) >get everything properly tracked in Git with good branch management, code reviews, etc if you haven't already >virtualize/containerize your systems where applicable. get reproducible builds and deployments. >stop with the PHP if possible and switch to something else. that language is not fun or cool these are all things that are required of professional devs and are applicable to your job probably. The more you automate, the more free time you have to do dev work... Just automate things but make it look to your manager that you still have the same workload. Then you get to decide what to work on.

>>40513 Thing is the first eight months were under a manager who is no longer at the company. And in the most recent four months I've been pretty useless. I wonder if I've bombed any good impression with my recent performance. I'll still bring it up to my current manager and see what he thinks

>>40560 thats really funny because i really want your setup. I love Linux sysadmin work and would love to try and automate every part of the job that interacts with my systems. currently im just a lowly hospital tech support worker so im just building my resume but i dont want to work in devops in a big corporation, id rather have something like your setup. but to each their own, if you feel like compsci is for you, you may just have to start from scratch. or get a devops job for a company that wants to get bigger in your country

>>40560 What kind of dev job do you actually want? That does change the play a bit. If you want to keep doing ops-adjacent stuff, then I would say yeah you should look for a new job while you work on your degree. You're already qualified for a junior devops role at a lot of small companies, and doing actual sanctioned devops with a devops job title will be a lot better for your resume than doing a bit of automation on the side. For other dev roles it's probably still better to get into an actual devops position, but it's a bit less important since it probably won't be viewed as directly relevant experience. The other thing you should consider when looking for your next job is that getting a role you don't want at a company that does the work you do want to do is still a strong step in the right direction. For instance, if you wanted to get into embedded programming you should be looking for junior devops jobs at companies that work with hardware. Once you've done that, find the intersection between your role and the devs' role and get good at it. In the hardware example, this would be getting really good with fixing arcane compiler issues. If you wanted to do ML, this would be setting up pipelines for model training. You get the idea. Use your ops skills to your advantage, most devs don't have them. Just don't get pigeonholed as the "ops guy".

>>40560 >>40571 Thanks, that's some good advice. >stop with the PHP if possible and switch to something else. that language is not fun or cool The thing I like about PHP is that there's a really low barrier to just get started. I'm not aware of any other languages for webdev where it's that easy to whip something up with very little preperation. Personally I don't think PHP is bad (at least modern versions, I heard older version were different) but it does get a bad name; saying you've build something in Go or NextJS immediately sounds more exciting than saying you've build something in PHP. I'm not planing to use PHP for any new projects at least, since I wanna focus on other languages. >if you're doing that stuff you're already more competent and qualified than most devs with >5yoe. the average dev learns the bare minimum to halfass the job and then stops learning. I feel like I really haven't gotten a graps of what is actually required of me. Sometimes full time devs seem like these geniuses to me that I'll never catch up to and sometimes I see posts of devs that are on paper qualified but seemingly know less than me. >>40601 For someone who's set on the sysadmin path and likes a pretty relaxed sort of environment, my job is really great actually. I've started in tech support too before moving into this position and enjoyed it for most of my time here. >>40603 Thank you. That's pretty helpful. I'm leaning towards backend web development right now. But if there'd be some amount of Linux ops still involved, I think I would like that. I think I'll go read some more Devops job listings and stuff to get a better idea of how much I'd like that sort of work. For now I think I know that I wanna do *more* development but I'm not really sure how much of my job exactly I want it to be.

>>40618 >I feel like I really haven't gotten a graps of what is actually required of me. Sometimes full time devs seem like these geniuses to me that I'll never catch up to The average dev is not setting up every single part of a website. Where I work, cloud infra, CICD pipelines, monitering/observability, auth, fault tolerance, etc. are all done by totally different people or have an entire team dedicated to just that aspect. You should know them well enough and do a basic version but you will get a job whenever someone likes you enough and thinks you will be useful. This means very different things based on the company, location, and state of the market. It could just mean being decent at general programming and DSA, and you won't even be tested on more advanced stuff like databases, networking, etc. they might just let you learn that on the job, however this doesn't happen as much anymore. Really with where you're at you should be spending like 20-30% of your time networking because you are employable atp unless your projects have legitimately terrible code. Software development is not a credentialed profession, you could technically give your nephew with no coding experience a job, they just have to like you and most reasonable people expect some amount of effort & ongoing learning.

I need to make a decision: Stay on my current project: It's relatively light support work in a Kanban system—maintenance and bug fixes (although sometimes incredibly frustrating, like when something breaks only once a month during a full moon and the bug becomes impossible to reproduce later). Occasionally, I add simple new features. Join a "challenging project": This involves implementing new features throughout the year, working in sprints, and having daily standups with the Product Owner present. It's a "high-visibility" project—I've already helped wrap up Phase 1 and later worked on maintenance tasks. Each time, the manager told me to email the Product Owner for approval of changes or to explain why I was making them. From my understanding, now Phase 2 is starting, and I’m supposed to act as a Lead—but still get paid a mid-level salary. This company perpetually lacks budget, so on the current project and previously during implementation, we’ve been doing everything as a two-person team (me and another mid-level dev). There are no testers, no proper Lead, no one with decision-making technical authority, and no architect. I still feel stressed whenever I have to send an email to stakeholders with the manager cc'd, describing a technical change. Each time, I feel like they’re stockpiling email documentation against me. I’m worried this "super project," Phase 2 with sprints, might be a trap. They’ll expect me to do everything on my own because there’s no budget, burn me out with an overload of work, and then shift the blame onto me using that email documentation. On the other hand, it could be an opportunity to break out of the "crusty old mid-level dev" curse. If I take on the new project, they won’t have any reasons not to give me a raise and promote me to Senior, since I’ll be driving this new initiative. I know what you’re thinking, but I can’t directly ask the project manager for a raise for working on 2), because that’s not his role—raises are handled through a formal process. I’ve always had good feedback, and from what they’ve told me, there’s a good chance of a raise next year. I could use the argument that I’m taking the lead on a new project during those discussions. Better pay might finally allow me to move out of my parents’ house and leave "loser mode" behind. So, option 2) is riskier and might be a trap, especially since I’m not a super-expert. But at the same time, option 1) could also be a bad choice because it’s not developmental. I’m scared that if I get laid off, I won’t find another job because I’ll have pigeonholed myself as a stagnant, unskilled dev. There’s also the risk that I’ll take on this much more demanding project and won’t even be rewarded with a raise. That would lead to burnout for nothing, and I wouldn’t even be able to find another remote job afterward.

>>40633 >I still feel stressed whenever I have to send an email to stakeholders with the manager cc'd, describing a technical change. Each time, I feel like they’re stockpiling email documentation against me. This is very weird. Why do they need to know the technical changes? Sounds like micromanagement. Ultimately it sounds like you need to switch companies. Whether you want to do this partially by explaining what you accomplished on the challenging project, or chill as a maintenance programmer and do interview prep is up to you. Normally I would say do the challenging project but this sounds like a soykaf show. Only you know how bad it is.

>>38503 i am kind of the opposite anon. I hate college and studying in general, so i graduate with average GPA. I have been working for more than a year now, it is quite painful for me. I used to do automation testing, but for the past 2 months im doing intership as backend dev. What i want from this is to be able to know what the industry requires and have focus, the internet can be an infinite cesspool. Even if i failed the internship, I would still get something from it. Back then, I used to fumble all the time writing code for autotest. School is good and all, but do you really think that learning theory is enough to prepare you for the industry? The education at my college was pretty bad, so I were even more shocked when i have to do actual work. If you still decide to continue studying, I would recommend you taking on internship or doing some outsourcing work. Since you study so much, I’d suppose you would be pretty good at coding.

First time working as a software developer on a one year contract and It will soon expire and I'm kind of nervous because how am I supposed to tell if they'll extend it for another year? Should I already be looking for new jobs or am I overreacting?

>>38524 chatbot conversation

Is it even worth trying to get a software development job nowadays or will I just be stuck working with bloated webdev for projects that are destined to fail?

What do y'all think about Musk opting for more H1B visas into the US?

>>40824 To quote Elon, "all they care about is looking good while doing evil". He was always great at PR in a Steve Jobs way, while being an all around grifter. Doubling down on H1B, he's either trying to extract more value out of his stock ponzi companies following bean counter advice, or he's Epstein blackmailed into this path.

>>40824 musks position seemed to shift every 12 hours out of the last 100 or so, we don't know where he'll be in another hundred. Prior to this I seem to recall him making several statements to the effect of wanting an end to illegal immigration, wanting more legal immigration, so I'm not terrifically surprised. PC platitudes. Four years ago he was a rebbit brained obummer slimp, his politics have been shifting the last couple years. Hope this is an issue he hasn't fully thought through, seems like he could be reconsidering. Or just bowing to pressure to save face, but he is autistic. Ultimately Musk's important but Trump's the King and last time under Trump as I recall but am not immediately finding good chart we had lower numbers across the board. Trump says what he says and H1B probably isn't going the way of the dodo but that doesn't mean importing the 'top' 1% of 'talent' world wide. If Musk had a sneaky evil plan he'd pursue it under the table not broadcast on twitter. most likely said what he said because he thought it was a normal person opinion because he mostly hangs out with rootless cosmopolitans and people who don't speak up because they're used to there being consequences (and rightly so).

>>40824 US education is trash. In fact whole west is going downwhill with "we cant the kids fail so lets dumb it down" nonsense so everyone wants eastern workers because not only are they cheaper they also still have functional education. The problem is if you tell people as a company head "u all retarded because our education is trash" they wont say okay guess i will have to welfare while better people get jobs. You will get massive blowback so nobody will say it out loud. There are some educators who tried to warn but they dont get the media presence.

>>40834 First of all some of the jobs listed with people getting h1bs for are not high training requirement jobs. Second of all we have all these examples of companies like intel and many many more companies preferentially hiring people of their own nationalities. Third of all if US college education is like kicking dead whales down the beach then why are so many foreigners paying top dollar and fighting eachother to get into it, and not even just top schools, but everywhere they can go ? US education can and should be better but if you've got a large supply of adequate cheap scabs to bring over then there's less will to do so on the part of industry, and on top of that maybe you have someone in the hiring pipeline who thinks straight white males need to be decentered or that childless indians make better workers[1]. But thats not the only problem here and making the whole situation better is going to mean fixing several things at once or in parallel. In WWII we had housewives and circus freaks getting trained in less than a year to become professional welders and technicians in all sorts of industry much of it fairly skilled. Provided the population is motivated, and provided the will is there, this is very practical with a 1940 era US demography. Its possible that many americans nowadays wonder what it is that they are fighting for and simply don't see the motivation to compete for the money to live alone in squalor in what is rapidly turning into a hellish cross between guatemala mumbai and abuja. 1: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/07/19/korean-american-software-engineer-claims-discrimination-by-intel-managers-of-indian-descent/

>>40836 I didnt intend to contest that they want cheap labor or nepotism. They obviously do and i even mentioned them hiring for being cheaper. The hb1 min wage was set 1991 and never adjusted since then for inflation. You could easily double it to adjust for modern economy. Its absolutely valid and could be something worth campaigning for. That said i do believe the more pressing issue is abysmal high school education because if you block immigration then outsourcing remains an alternative outlet you have to compete with regardless and software is the easiest segment to remote work. And before even working you cant compete with immigrant kids for your local university either because your education lags ~2 years behind. They learn in high school what you only get to see first time second semester in university. That's how far behind you get with western education. Im not happy about this soykaf, im mad we get scammed this much.

>>40837 do you have any specific thoughts about how to fix highschool/earlier ? I guess there's the obvious move faster judge harsher, but curious for your more specific opinions.

>>40841 Western education sacrificed excellent students to accommodate their worst students and lost with that the ability to foster new talents. I think its unrealistic to go against this mentality as its desired by government & people benefiting from it so you have to sidestep: 1. welfare grades + difficult education = smart kids still pick good education up, stupid kids still pass so gov&stupid remain satisfied by zero dropout statistic 2. segregate and offer more challenging education for smart kids in separate classes / schools. There is already private school of course but that's not affordable for normal parents. Public education has to have its own tiered schooling system with superior education for kids who can keep up with it.

>>40841 My mother is a teacher, so I have a bit of insight into the problem, at least in the US. One of the biggest issues is how easy it is to sue the school, or even individual teachers. Schools are incredibly afraid of legal risks, so discipline goes out the window and is replaced by micro-management. Because public schools are primarily funded by local property taxes, parents view teachers like their employees, and expect them to almost be surrogate parents. Schools are pretty much a glorified cross between daycare center and prison. Like >>40845 wrote, there's a lot of concern about poor performing students, especially of the "urban youth" variety. So all kinds of stupid soykaf is invented by "academics" to address the issue, like trying to teach reading as if English used a logography. For a while, teachers have been evaluated by a something called the "Danielson Framework", which was invented by some 1st grade teacher. Basically, students are expected to teach themselves and each other, with the teacher just being a "guide". Of course, this is useless when students don't know anything, so there's a whole lot of bullshitting and time-wasting paperwork teachers have to do to get good evaluations. Because of union politics, republicans hate teachers, and have done pretty much everything in their power to make their lives miserable. The public is also largely antagonistic towards teachers, and are completely unaware that most of what they do is controlled by an ever growing number of very well paid administrators. As for the union, they're pretty much useless bloodsuckers who would rather spend money sending their high ups to fancy DEI conferences, than buying coffee. That's right, at least at my mother's school, there's no coffee, free or otherwise. You have to bring your own. So yeah, teaching isn't exactly a job that attracts the best and brightest.

Anyone have success stories regarding changing careers and living with ADHD? I work an office job, but nothing related to IT or programming, and I wish I could work from my home. I could also go for an on-site IT job if it meant getting experience so I can work remotely in the future. But my current field will never work remote. I'm a very mediocre programmer because I never stick with my projects, but over the years I got some experience with many languages and concetps, and I often even use small scripts and macros in my current office job to automate soykaf so I can do more work and then slack off. But I also have ADHD (unmedicated, but I think about going to the psych for meds, because over the years it's become more and more severe), which means I get fired up about starting a project that I can put on my resume and hopefully at least try sending it out to some postings, but I never finish it. So I guess my question is, how to stick with personal projects despite working full-time and having trouble focusing?

Any Lains working in bioinformatics, or any other scientific computing? If so, how did you get into it? I have heard that they prefer to have scientists do the programming rather than hiring external programmers to help the scientists, even though in most cases you don't actually need an in-depth understanding of the science to write useful code.

>>40867 >, how did you get into it? I have heard that they prefer to have scientists do the programming rather than hiring external programmers to help the scie i am working on the egg differentiation

>>40867 I looked into it briefly. Typically people said it is hard to make a career out of it and you need to be careful to get a bioinformatics degree at a particular place where there is a lab that may employ you. You need to intentionally socially network and build connections with the place you have targeted. There are only a few locations where it seems reasonable to do. This was the vibe i got

I'm looking for a new software engineering/developer job after some time not working (looking for one step above entry level, I have a bachelors in comp sci and some professional experience), so I have a gap in my resume I'm trying to compensate for. Does anybody have recommendations for Java, C++, or Golang certifications I can take that will actually improve my chances of getting hired? I do have several personal projects I've completed and a portfolio for the time I wasn't working but I worry it isn't enough. There seem to be a lot of certs available but I suspect a lot of them are not worth the trouble / won't be recognized as useful. Should I go for something like AWS cloud certification instead? I do have some professional experience working with AWS but not all that much. Or would I be spending my time better by contributing to an open source project?

My boss called me a weirdo, damn. I hate myself, but I also taken joy in it.

>>40973 Be anything but normal. It's good to be weird.

been applying to jobs in earnest since mid november. i got a bs in mech e from 2023 but have only worked as a programmer. worked at a small biomed startup for 5 years, mostly full time. started at a consumer tech one last april, which i still go to occasionally. since neither company has done very well and ive never had more than one programming coworker i feel like a weak candidate for most things. been applying all over, big and small, data science, ml, general swe, systems engineering. 400 applications later, nothing past a couple ghosted recruiter calls and failed coding assessments. most of the 400 is linkedin easy apply or batch applying to big companies. but i feel like i need to alter my approach. may try to go to a networking event in a few weeks. the more recent startup may take me on in some unspecified capacity where theyll mentor me in embedded stuff. besides the project i worked on they run an EE consultancy. positivity is difficult to maintain but now that the holidays are over i hope it shouldnt be more than a month or two before i land something. advice/tips/analysis/solidarity appreciated. sending all u lains a digital hug

>>40983 You have 5 years of experience as a programmer and you are not getting jobs? How is that even possible

>>41008 well half of it was while i was in school. i was on call to fix soykaf, attending daily standup calls, and working on projects every couple weekends. the company hasnt done super well and i had too much responsibility without a mentor. so i feel like on the resume it doesnt look super appealing, even tho i know i can handle the typical workload + interpersonal aspects

>>41012 do any of your friends have jobs programming ? their own companies ? old jobs where maybe they could give you references to their ex colleagues ? this is often how one gets jobs ime

How's the European job market for a 2 YOE SWE in Europe as a whole? I am planning to move to Europe (I hold an EU passport), but I'm unsure about the job market. My job has been with JS/TS, but my background is mainly low level and hacking soykaf. From what I read on HN, the job market doesn't look great. I've considered starting a bachelors there, thinking it might be an easier path. But it feels like a waste of money and time given my experience. Any advice? I know saying "Europe" is very broad, but I'd literally move to anywhere that isn't a soykafhole.

>>41014 yeah i have a former coworker now at a defense contractor thats been trying to get me in there and passing my info on to recruiters. got a couple references from acquantainces since i made a post on l**kedin. might try again there soon. theres some former neighbors at big companies i might try and reach out to for references as well. this process is such a hustle.....

I'm white, considering DEI hiring policies do you think it's better to say I'm hispanic or jewish when asked my nationality in interviews to increase my chances of getting hired?

>>41031 they're not going to ask your ethnicity in an interview.

>>41033 no they're going to ask it on the application form before you even get to an interview. Obvious solution is to say you're a native american, assuming you are.

>>41033 I meant the little form you have to fill out before hand

>>41039 if that pic related is real then holy soykaf

>>41040 90% of the jobs in tech are given to non whites. It either happen by chance or does it have causes? https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-black-lives-matter-equal-opportunity-corporate-diversity/

>>41042 yeah but you'd hope it would at least be because they say they have more experience, or nepotism, or stupid things like that this really is just lol im like a lesbian and sheet with an unpronounceable name

>>41043 That wouldn't explain anything, white dudes can lie about their past experience too.

>>41044 literally not a single blond head in those photos. Can doesn't mean do in equal proportion, any racist knows this.

>>41040 it's fake. It's origin is from a soykafpost on /g/. that lain is just baiting people.

>>40983 > failed coding assessments If you're getting filtered by small company's coding interviews your skills probably aren't where you think they are. Swallow your pride and apply for more junior positions. >linkedin easy apply Straight into the trash. Reach out directly to a human being with every application.

>>41046 >women gets hired over man >its fake there is a hiring quota so its happening for real its also why guys now just claim to identify as women to get a role in the quota circus like >>41044 image complains about Funniest comment i read was "Corporations found it easier to turn men into women than to turn women into programmers"

>>39725 LMAO. I know what you mean: I was interviewed by a Technical Manager that was surprised that I actually loved coding, and told me he was in that position solely out of love for money. He seemed pretty miserable if I'm being honest. I think it's people with the mentality of "chasing the current wave," which is commendable, but not something you can actualy do in the long term.

>>41048 thank you for the feedback !! id genuinely prefer to be in a junior role, but with the years i have on paper and the total lack of human contact in the job market im left feeling like i appear overqualified for junior roles and underqualified for senior ones. hiring people seem eager to think down their applicant pools by any arbitrary means. and there seems to be far more senior roles available, suggesting companies just advertise that because they want folks who can take on more responsibility. at least this is what i console myself with. i apply to everything i see whose description vaguely fits my level of experience. this is the hand it seems i ought to play. and yeah im now trying to find applications more from companies' websites and ignoring linkedin bs. still slowly getting opportunities through personal connections too. in the best case this is an opportunity for me to upskill. i spent too much time in years past feeling like i didnt want to be a programmer and not taking my learning seriously enough. thankfully i got some solid credentials at my former job and went to a great school. so even tho i spent time foolishly twiddling my thumbs i still have some fuel to propel me upward career wise. what a farce.

>>41040 It's probably real. I was involved in hiring at my last job and I did my best not to pull this soykaf, but my boss chose to interview someone who was a poor fit solely because they were female and he felt there were not enough women in the office (he told us this explicitly). She failed the interview because she didn't know any programming languages outside Matlab and had not seemed to understand we were hiring software developers, in other words had applied by mistake (She wasn't dumb, she had a math degree, but could not program, not even FizzBuzz). A phone screen or just looking at her resume would have caught this.

What are the skills that, regardless of the area, a person must master to get a job as a programmer? Some context: I know how to program and I know the tools that are used (Git, command line, languages like HTML, etc), but I have never worked in the field and I don't have a degree. What areas open up for a complete novice? The bad thing is that I screwed up and haven't made a portfolio because I'm afraid of starting something and not being able to finish it. I also don't know which language would be the ideal one; I manage and know several languages; I like C++ a lot, but the one I know like the back of my hand is Python. I'm also terrified that I no longer fit in this age of A.I. hype. I don't care how much I get paid, I just want to get something fast to gain experience (I also need to find a job). Thank you very much in advance.

>>41072 >I know how to program and I know the tools that are used To be quite honest, I have my doubts about whether you really 'know how to code and use tools like Git'. Why? Simple, you said yourself that you've ‘never done projects’ before, which leads me to think that you've never gone much beyond what a chatGPT does. Understand this, you won't be doing leet code challenges in your job, because if that were the case, nobody else would have a job, since LLMs can do 99% of leet code challenges. I would strongly recommend that you build your own projects. It doesn't matter if it's a clone of something that already exists, just do it. You need to understand what it's like to work in a gigantic codebase. Being a contributor to a relevant project can be a great way to gain ‘experience’ without actually working. There are hundreds of C and C++ projects that are actually useful to the world, just waiting for some benevolent soul to step up and help. >what are the skills that, regardless of the area, a person must master to get a job as a programmer? Now to your first question: learn programming logic. I know it sounds like a tired argument, but have you ever wondered how some programmers seem to know 10 programming languages at the same time? Well, they're not masters of all languages, it just so happens that the vast majority of languages share 90% similarities, with only the syntax changing most of the time. Of course, there are exceptions such as Rust, Lisp, Haskell etc., but at the enterprise level, more popular languages such as C++, C#, Java, Javascript, PHP etc. are generally chosen. All these languages I've mentioned have something in common: they're C-like languages. This means that just by knowing C, you'll already know almost 90 per cent of the languages. >what areas open up for a complete novice? Honestly, web development. As much as I hate it, it was the area that paid my salary for almost 12 years until I became a researcher (read premium bum lol). Just a quick search on LinkedIn and you'll realise that the overwhelming majority of vacant roles are for web developers. >I'm also terrified that I no longer fit in this age of A.I. hype I can't blame you. There were also rumours that no-code and low-code platforms would put an end to developers' work, but here we are. It may be that this time AI really will take our jobs, but there's not much way of predicting that. So just do your bit and keep studying. Or give up, I don't know. Nobody has a crystal ball to predict what the field will be like in 5 or 10 years' time. So do what you think is right for you.

Hi lain, I am about to accept an offer for working in a startup as a backend developer, using typescript. I have never used the language, and I am not particularly inspired by Javascript, but the opportunity seems good and I like the team (for what I have seen in the interviews). I also like the idea of opening a bit to front-end, even if I will probably keep backend as my primary focus, and typescript may be a good choice for this. Do you think I risk pidgeonholing myself into a corner by using typescript? I have one year and a half of work experience, first as a Scala developer, then in .net backend.

>>38324 The only reason I don't focus more on blockchain, De-Fi, Crypto, etc., is because I've seen a lot of devs get hacked. I understand that this might be a common filter for those who work with blockchain, but I'm not paranoid about security, I just do what the average dev does, so I'm really scared of starting to apply for blockchain jobs and ending up screwed. Another problem I've also noticed is that there is a kind of "prejudice" against those who work or have worked with blockchain or De-Fi. Very similar to the prejudice that some devs suffer because they have experience with online casinos, online betting, etc. Despite it being probably the best-paying area in the programming market, I'm afraid that my experience with crypto will haunt me for the rest of my career. Obviously, there is an advantage in being an early adopter, when the herd starts doing blockchain bootcamps, I could already have a few good years of experience. But at the same time, the politics surrounding cryptos make the future very uncertain. I've been programming in Rust for almost 4 years, 2 of which have been professional. I feel like the adaptation wouldn't be that hard compared to someone who's never programmed in Rust before. But, again, the fear of ruining my reputation in the market is huge. I really admire the lainons who take risks in the crypto world. I wish I had the balls.

>>41121 I don't think you'd be pigeonholing yourself at all, you've already had experience with 2 different languages and you're not even 2 years into your career. If the team and role seems good then take it. A language is just a means to an end, if you decide that in a couple years you want to work with a different language then it won't take long to get familiar with something else. It seems like you're looking for the negative in what seems like a great job.

Where can I get logic and algorithms exercises to study? Preferably in c or python. If you have sql, it would be good too. Thanks.

>>41168 Python (although you can implement them in any language): www (dot) practicepython (dot) org SQL: sqlbolt (dot) com sqlzoo (dot) net Sorry for putting the links in this format, but it is to avoid the anti-spam filter. I would also recommend that, rather than practicing algorithms, you start writing small applications. Something simple: A game with trivial gameplay (you can use Pygame), a forum with basic functionality (Django and SQL), a chatbot (for that there is ChatterBot). More than one would agree that programming is learned by doing and researching the problem domain of the application to be developed. Practicing algorithms is important, but don't neglect filling out a portfolio either. I wish you success!

I have 3 years as a software developer, there is an opening in my company for a junior data engineering role with training provided. I'm considering making the switch because: 1. I feel like I'm not a very good software dev 2. All this talk about AI, it seems like the demand for devs will decrease, while data related roles will increase. Though I'm not sure how much I would enjoy data engineering, it seems harder than software development and if I really want to get good at something maybe I should stay in the same lane that I already have some experience in. Any advice?

>>41168 Codeforces or atcoder for algorithms

I went back to windows and I'm now using a mix of visual studio and clion for C++ and C# development. The foss stuff gave me OCD and made me feel like I was being productive while objectively I wasn't. I even got a macbook from my job and I HAD to install asahi because of foss brainrot but I'm going back to macos on it and using clion there too. I'm looking forward to spending more time making things I like on my time off and less time troubleshooting unnecessary bullshit.

>>41213 Eclipse java was the best experience i ever had. You hover over a function with mouse and it tells you exactly what it does. Everything is defined with its purpose. C++ seems in contrast to generally lack this independent of whether its VSC on windows or some linux alternative because the libs themself dont document their functionality in code. That aside i generally had to fuarrrk arround with build config more on windows then on linux because apparently on linux installing a lib over package manager automatically also setups the environment variables.

>>41222 >Eclipse java was the best experience i ever had. you must be an LLM bot, what the fuarrrk

>>41072 >I'm afraid of starting something and not being able to finish it. ngmi

https://qqpost.netlify.app/home

>>41224 believe it or not some people work for money

my dream of being a backend developer has shattered. Im back to working as a full stack tester. Guess I will leave the other dream behind and focus on my current role now. Not like I want to give up, I'll study dev work on my own for now.

>>40860 >how to stick with personal projects despite working full-time and having trouble focusing I have the opposite problem of doing stupid soykaf at my paid job (like filling in time sheets, basically anything not coding related), and all I want to do is work on personal projects. That being said I think you just need to pick one day a week when you're free (so probably not a work day) and write yourself down a task that you MUST complete. It kind of is like kicking dead whales down the beach because us ADHD folk can basically only do one thing per day, no matter how small or big it is, and projects frequently need lots of small things done. But as long as you're consistent you WILL make progress. Trust me. And some days you will be able to hammer out not just one but two or even three things. A few more tips: do the task first thing in your day. If you can't start change your surrounding environment (go work in the library or something) and after you're done give yourself a reward or a treat.

>>41094 Different lainon here. I tried using chatGPT to write a resume and over the course of the past few days it ended up becoming my careers adviser. It reckons following this plan consistently for 15 hours per week will lead to long-term job security in 2 years. It looks plausible to me, but I'd really appreciate input from a human who knows what they're doing and has experience in the field. Is this a realistic plan? Has the LLM missed something critical?

>>41322 >roadmap bottom Did it really misspell "Security+"??

>>41323 That's probably me, since the canvas kept crashing my browser so I typed it instead of copy+pasting.