What's Up With Lemmy?

From what I've seen and heard, it doesn't quite solve the problem of free speech since bad actors just de-federate your sub(reddit)lemmy, ban your account from their federated server/sub or just outright refactor the code in such a way that you'll have to constantly, painfully manually update your code base to keep up with the rest of the federation. in other words: it is censorship central. also, it has a karma system which misses the point on so many levels since the karma system only enables the hivemind to steer the conversation. but perhaps the most annoying thing about it is that it's basically not properly indexed. for two reasons: 1) it's because most guy-search-engines probably avoid indexing Lemmy results on purpose. 2) the main index/gateway <https://join-lemmy.org/> purposefully removes listings of instances they don't like. so even if good instances exist, well... good luck finding them I think what lemmy is missing is an integrated, specialized search engine that is instance-agnostic. where you would look up a term, say "cooking" and it would find all instances that specialize in the topic of cooking. so you get everything related to that in one feed related to "cooking" from all instances. such that it simulates a global "subreddit", effectively smoothing out the experience. as for the problem of accounts, I'm not sure how to solve this one. also, removal of the karma system is a must. doing this should fix Lemmy. anyone interested in a fork? >inb4 lemmy show you the door

>got baited by the Lemmy pic >turned out to be about reddit for people who think they're too good for reddit Get out of here with that soykaf

>>88063 > it doesn't quite solve the problem of free speech since bad actors just de-federate your sub(reddit)lemmy It's not a problem of free speech when someone just walks away not wanting to listen to you. Your content is not taken down, it's not censored, you are still federated with everyone who chooses to be so. In Fediverse, instances dedicated to extreme politics like those for megatankies or turbonazis can form cliques that are federated with each other, sort of webrings, depending on how severe their brain damage is they might get federated with some neutral instances. > it has a karma system No, it doesn't. There are individual vote/downvote counters for posts/comments, they don't go anywhere beyond the post/comment. They are not summed up into some unified karma counter per user like on Reddit.

>>88080 It's a user interface issue. From the user's perspective, the federation should remain intact. Instances can freely disassociate and "defederate" from one another, but user accounts should not be blocked from accessing other instances solely because they are linked to "problematic" instances. No one should have ownership over a topic, such as national socialism. Control over such topics should not rest with any group, including national socialists. Everyone should have the freedom to choose whether to view content related to this topic, but this choice must be made on an individual basis. When you defederate your instance and prevent users from commenting, you effectively isolate those users. This undermines the concept of free speech and creates an echo chamber. The decision to view or not view specific content should be made solely by the user. I'm not suggesting that your instance MUST allow users you prefer not to include. However, since instances represent topics, it becomes problematic when a group effectively controls a topic through their instance. Popular instances can inadvertently become authorities on certain subjects, which raises concerns. Do you see the issue here? Rather, I believe that topics should encompass several instances that correspond to them. This way, users can choose which groups (or instances) to join or not join, and which groups they are allowed to join that represent a topic. No one should have a monopoly on topics. This is a design issue with Lemmy.

>>88157 >but user accounts should not be blocked from accessing other instances solely because they are linked to "problematic" instances. Why not? that's kind of the point of it all. You choose an instance that aligns with your values. You could always make another account on a different instance, but if you don't follow their rules you get derezzed. Simple. >The decision to view or not view specific content should be made solely by the user. Many instances choose to defederate through democratic polls. So it's actually decided by the entire instance if they wish to defederate. As for your last point, yes, certain instances will have a 'monopoly' on topics. But with transparency in modlogs the only point of 'control' is the culture surrounding the topic. If it just so happens to be filled with one type of person who all agree on the same thing then that's just some unfortunate luck. There is governance on Lemmy that aims to hold mods/admins accountable for abuse of power. And overall, sure, the system isn't perfect. But it is a gigantic step in the right direction compared to something such as reddit.

>>88157 >>88174 I agree with both of you, Lemmy isn't perfect, but it's a huge step forward. Current meta is to use multiple accounts on different instances. Luckily Lemmy makes it very easy to register them. Some instances don't even require email verification.

>>88157 If you want to use someone elses instance you have to pick someone who aligns with you. There are instances that federate with everyone. If you really must have total control you are free to host your own instance. It doesnt take much.

>see thread about lemmy >soykaf Yes it has down/upvote, but even that is for instance to choose. Hexbear for example only has upvotes. It also doesn't affect anything but the singular post/comment Federetion is federation, just an instance wide blocking of content, and forming your won instances-wide communities if so happens. And btw, you can always host your own instance that federates with everyone with you being the sole user and proprietor. To be honest I love good critique of lemmy, for example the shenanigans the .world folk are doing are glowing. I remember when they tried to HIRE (WITH CV) UNPAID MODERATORS, plus the office and all other typical reddit stuff that came with the migration of reddit people onto lemmy (who didn't want anything but the aesthetics to change). The good thing is, it is contained mainly to few instances, biggest being .world. Bad thing, they are the biggest ones due to reddit migration. My personal favorite instances are: https://lemmy.sdf.org/ - SDF is SDF https://hexbear.net/ - Leftist folk all around, fragmented from the "Reddit" instances due to politics. Heavily recommend checking it out. https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/ - Mainly anarchists with Copyleft focus. Good instance, more attached to the "Reddit" side of lemmy. https://lemmygrad.ml/ - From tankies for tankies https://lemmy.ml/ - The instance made by devs

>>88580 > hexbear, lemmygrad, lemmy.ml I consider all three tankie instances. They're also defederated from a lot of others. My favorites are perhaps sh.itjust.works, ani.social, dbzero0, and programming.dev

>>88581 Liberal scratched lol Muh tankies. Lemmy.ml isnt defederated from no one but a literal right-wing pit. Lemmygrad and Hexbear employ the same mechanism, but for their more left nature are defedarated from the rest of more "reddit-lib" fediverse. Pushed mainly not by tankies themselves but the other side. to be honest faithful post. But come on, calling lemmy.ml tankie?

>>88582 Bruh, "ml" stands for marxist-leninist, sure it is. I prefer instances that have no singular political ideology focus. But if I were to choose one extreme, I'd choose anarchist instance, and in some corner case when no better options available, "free speech absolutist" one. Because yeah, in case of total censorship I could even tolerate some of those alt-righters at least for their anti-censorship stance, even though I have nothing else in common with them.

>>88583 > free speech absolutist > alt-righters PS: Oh well, I guess I live in the past then, but I prefer it this way.

> Lemmy.ml isnt defederated from no one but a literal right-wing pit https://federation-checker.vercel.app/ Btw, found my main instance in "blocks" list.

>>88063 Used one of the kbin frontends back when those were still around, but at the end of the day it suffers from heavy fragmentation (as with all fediverse based platforms). Still might try selfhosting a personal instance so I can browse/post without worrying about admin shenanigans but dunno if lightweight server software exists for lemmy.

>>88585 Yes, those instances are overwhelmingly child-porn and alt-right cesspools. The concept of de-federation is unbelievable straightforward: 1. Users are associated with whatever instance aligns best with their hobbies and personality; 2. Users can interact with each other even if they are from different instances; 3. You are not entitled to an audience part 1: users can block you if you're an asshole, even from another instance; 4. You are not entitled to an audience part 2: if you're an asshole to many people on an instance, that instance can block you; 5. You are not entitled to an audience part 3: if you create an instance with lax moderation policies, it will quickly become an asshole factory, and upon seeing you reply to every report with "lol kys user," other instances will block yours; 6. If your instance gets derezzed, you may (politely) ask to transfer your account to another instance that doesn't have an utter soykaf reputation. You may want to study points 3 through 5 carefully.

>>88676 Kek, I only provided that image to show the federation state of lemmy_ml, which is in the same position as lemmygrad and hexbear: no one wants to have anything to do with them and they don't want to have anything to do with others. Those three represent a small commie insider trade cluster isolated from the rest of the fediverse. And I'm fine with that. I wouldn't mind seeing their soykaf though, but I'm not actively interested in it. > those instances are overwhelmingly child-porn and alt-right cesspools Cope. I couldn't find a single CP or alt-right instance on the list. Instead there are some furry and anime instances, even some leftist instances, just not tankie leftist ones.

>>88581 Lemmy itself was made by "tankies", and these are the core lemmy instances, so if you don't like that then don't use lemmy

>>88063 > it doesn't quite solve the problem of free speech orly? did it promised to solve it? is there techical solution to a social, constitutional problem? Alex Jones solved it by self-hosting derezzed.video. How you solved it? Which particular subject you need to discuss? i2p 'solved' privacy. Hyphanet\zeronet\torrrents\odysee-LBRY\radicle.xyz solved distribution, publishing. Maybe you show us your non-js front end? Fed's verse was designed as easiliy censorable, centralized, trotskyist cesspool, where information doesn't propagate (reach destination) (unlike broadcast Librecast) & easy to spy on you. Dependent on hostings, domains & ssl registrars. A red herring to distract folk from real solutions & liberty. In Nostr, you will be censored by relays , and if you use it as microblog twitter replacement, it's a privacy nightmare, because it will send all your private data to bad-actors relays, data hoarders & data brokers, while loading dozen of JS FAANG trackers on page while you browse. You don't seem to grasp Clown Science of Clown Computing. When you put your data in a Clown, you store your data In a Clown. Do you need a clown science diploma, major, to understand clown2clown communication ? > karma system which misses the point on so many levels since the karma system only enables the hivemind to steer the conversation. on reddit karma is abused and sold by pakistani who run farms @ e-cafe. (Not even bots, but real people, with government issued id's, age verified, digital farmers) So you interested to evaluate karma inputs only from whitelisted sources. Youtube removed dislike button to scam people. It protected users from scam, spam & irrelevant information. >doing this should fix Lemmy. anyone interested in a fork? wrong. no. why you people always interesting in fooorrking someone? There are more of your forks, than real users there. Can you just contribute to fchan(.xyz) https://usagi.reisen , mitra , zeronet ? Aaron Swartz got epsteined by industry, because he didn't want Reddit to become what it became, a mandatory mobile app enforcement, deprivation of http://old.reddit.com, an account requirements for any r18 texts. ActivityPub verse became far opposite of 4chan. A reverse mirror. I didn't saw there any posts condemning Hamas, or normal good honest people supporting Trump. Fediverse is biased, sometimes smells like propaganda in Cuban mental asylum. There are few major Lemmy instances. They consist only of entertainment communities, no useful/helpful/practical stuff. Posts there are just "NEWS" and basically feel like cloned page of MSN/CNN. It does lack of users (like every other even major websites out there).

>>88686 > Lemmy itself was made by "tankies", Yes, I know. > if you don't like that then don't use lemmy No, fuarrrk you. Also, if they do anything stupid in the code, others can proceed with forks.

>>88688 > Fed's verse was designed as easiliy censorable, centralized, trotskyist cesspool, where information doesn't propagate (reach destination) (unlike broadcast Librecast) & easy to spy on you. When you say things like thay you at least have to explain why you think it doesn't propagate. It does propagate very well. Bad actors literally don't have any power or influence over anything but their instance. Lemmy in particular has a nicely working cross-instance feed. Also, federation is automatic for instances that don't explicitly block each other, when someone first time visiting some new instance, your instance will federate and pull/cache stuff from instance it doesn't know. > Dependent on hostings, domains & ssl registrars. I think it's possible to host lemmy or mastodon instance on Tor or I2P, the server can talk to activitypub through exit nodes. Users themselves stay fully within Tor/I2P and get easy outside reach because of server pushing/pulling stuff through exit nodes.

>>88688 Yes, there is a technical solution to free speech. It's called federated services such as ActivityPub. Those are literally designed around freedom of speech and association. The reasons wacky wingnuts are so rare out there are that they're too attached to authority and centralization to see the point and the rare times when they try federation anyways they immediately get defederated because they regard instance interoperability as an opportunity to be insufferable, toxic assholes and not to connect with people. Then they cry censorship because they're too entitled to realize freedom of speech doesn't mean everyone has to put up with your retarded tantrums like a beta wimp on a date with a narcissistic bitch that demands to be loved at her worst. Even under torture, you wouldn't be able to name one way PeerTube, Mastodon and Lemmy "spy on you." (Hint: keeping archives of stuff posted publicly doesn't count as spying) And YouTube didn't remove the dislike button. Dependence on hosting is literally the Internet, and as far as I know, even the most parody-of-themselves Nazis manage to find companies willing to host them and registrars willing to provide them domains and certificates. FFS Stormfront got its certificate from Google. And even if you only manage to find a host, you can bypass the other two either with an unencrypted service over IP or as an onion service. Haven't seen "normal good honest people supporting Trump" on the fediverse? That's perfectly understandable: they don't exist. Now, if you're talking about weird treasonous dishonest freaks supporting Handrot Pedon, they actually have several Mastodon instances. The biggest one is called truth.social, and AFAIK they disabled federation altogether precisely for the reason I developed in the first paragraph above. If what you want is one little post condemning Hamas, you could look up Jewish communities, post it in an instance that's not crawling with moonbats or even make your own anti-Hamas instance. Of course don't cry at my feet when you get defederated because you keep acting like a schizo irrespective of the fact you condemn Hamas.