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Monetization ruined the internet and well technology. Instead of playing video games with friends, gamers started broadcasting their gaming to the general public and called themselves streamers. People started watching them play video games until the streamer built up an audience. Perhaps, the streamer branched out into other topics such as commentating on the news or pop culture or current events or whatever randomness and started calling themselves YouTubers. Eventually, such streamers and YouTubers became surrogate friends to their audience, so the the audiences demanding more community initiatives such as social media, group messaging or even forum platforms. This community building is a lot work and effort and time for the streamer/YouTuber. So much time that it is difficult to get a real job so the streamer/YouTuber started wanting to get paid for the content they are producing and started calling themselves content creators. Meanwhile, corporate conglomerates and big business companies decided to try profiteering off the content creators by injecting ads into their content or paying them for in-video sponsorships. Now the audience wants the same shout-outs as the sponsors get, so platforms started internal revenue generating features like paying for a mention in chat or external membership subscription models with perks such as joining Discords or Q&As sessions and all other parasocial solutions. People are essentially paying to be friends with content creators/streamers/YouTubers. Worse, it became sexualized with the introduction of OnlyFans where porn is now parasocial too. It's all so pathetic and commercialized. There is no fun or enjoyment or passion in anything on the internet anymore. It's all profiteering ventures and brands and sponsors and affiliates.

causality chain is a bit different: Pre-release access to big titles made game journalists reliant on publishers. Game journalism became a marketing department for publishers. Gamers started making their own websites to fix the bad game journalism issue. The sites had costs, some grew big and now they had to run a business financing the sites from marketing because nobody was willing to pay for it from gamer side. Once youtube became a thing they started releasing video reviews because that had 0 hosting cost to yourself. Video call tech popped up, livestreaming camwhores commercialized it. Someone got the idea lets offer streaming for normal things. Streaming games became a thing. Streamer audience grew and became commercially more important than many old media press outlets. Old media started to viral market to kids by creating new talent agencies that would employ streamer/influencers as their public faces. Right now the biggest streamers on the most popular streaming platform all belong to a disney owned talent agency. Visibility and rankings are manipulated metrics that rank industry plants above genuine people. YT seems to have caps on how popular you can get if you are a normal person and got caught manipulating visibility because they had p-score metric visible in the page source. In short 1. publishers subverted traditional magazine game journalism 2. gamers made their own journalism online on yt/steaming 3. publishers subverted online gamer journalism

And what are *you* doing to change it lil bro

>>83089 >Monetization ruined the internet You can say that again. *Everything* on the internet is a scam now. The search engines are useless because of all the commercial links crowding everything else out. The rest of the links go to commercialized click-bait sites posing as hobby/information sites.

monetization is the problem, it is also the solution if you simply pay people for the data they create instead of ripping them off, that is enough to create a middle class instead, 100% of what would've been in the pockets of the ones pulling the levers and producing the content for the platforms gets extracted and transferred upwards never to be heard from again voodoo economics trickles up people need to get used to paying for soykaf they want to find on the internet. when i exhausted all my searches for some info, offering a bounty, suddenly someone had it. wanting everything for free has a cost. in many ways, we still never recovered from the dot com boom's crash. we never fixed the broken parts of the internet that failed catastrophicly at the turn of the century. instead, we just got gold-painted bandages on top of a gaping wound that needs stiches. what you describe is a horrible outcome, but its just the result of a bunch of incompetent idiots who have all the creativity beaten out of them through education running the show, there are plenty of solutions waiting in the wings that just need dev time essentially

>>83094 Agreed. Removing monetization won't solve anything. Nothing is free. We just have to change the way we pay for services. If we all pay for a better internet, we'll get it. It all starts one at a time. People should want to pay for a vps to host a website/content People should want to pay for an online open source privacy respecting tool People should want to donate to forums/boards to ensure quality content and discussions People should want to have basic online direct donations rather than sponsorship or deals or any other corporate manipulative nonsense It's possible, but it requires a certain level of competence that most people don't have.

The root cause is avg person is stupid. Product cycle is: 1.startup -> 2.gain market share with quality -> 3.reach mainstream -> 4.sellout -> 5. sell trash with established brand image for shortterm profit if people weren't stupid 4/5 wouldn't be possible. That said +1 to simply fund what you love. Fighting the industrial complex over controlling consumer cattle has bad ROI. The best course is to foster the products you love to keep a niche market for quality alive.

yeah the way greed is behind pretty much most online interactions nowadays is pretty fuarrrked up. its not like you win by ignoring it either. eventually with money involved everything becomes performative until the performance itself becomes another custom deeply ingrained in the soykafty minds of people. for every dollar earned there's a sucker with a dollar less, and you have this train of thought self-replicating endlessly through a society of suckers playing themselves for what they are. algorithmic engagement behaviorally trains people into certain ways of thinking and acting. just by putting money between human interactions they automatically unleashed an awful self-replicating machine of greed and stupidity that leaves zero room for organic thought or expressions. everything is as the astroturfed algorithm says. it's very sad instead of blaming people I'd blame the economy though. or rather forcing people to apathetically serve the abstract societal machine without really giving a fuarrrk and baiting them into wasting a lifetime through greed. >>83095 op's point was more about how it affected just socializing online but you're mentioning soykaf about codependence instead of doing it by yourself. normalize doing soykaf by yourself. its free. if you don't want to then pay the neighborhood's nerd not some faceless company ready to scam you.

When invidious was down a while back, I was forced to use YouTube and realized how dysfunctional it is. Its almost impossible to find the video you are looking for, especially if its old. You will be thrown a dozen supposedly similar videos that are NOT what you were looking for. You will be given trending videos that have nothing to do with what you typed into the search bar and, unsurprisingly, they are all political propaganda designed for CNN views or polacks and corporate ads.

The greatest part about a free market is that you have alternatives, or even the free will to not use such services. That's like bitching about how bananas are the worst fruit but still deliberately choosing to strictly eat bananas instead of let's say apples? You don't like apples? Then eat grapefruits. You don't like grapefruits? Then eat watermelons. The list goes on until you find something that you like, you're horribly generalizing this whole thing like websites are 1 big sovereign state instead of seeing the hosts, e.g twitch, like mules that are entirely driven by the people

>>83099 >entirely driven by the people views are manipulated with viewbotting/embedding and site algorithms / promotions altering visibility. Also remember microsoft tried to create a competing streaming service to twitch, they burned a lot of money but it didnt work so they pulled the plug. And Kick only exists because twitch derezzed gambling streams so they gave away a niche market. People bitch about the present state because they would love to not use the dominant platforms but not using twitch/yt means losing 90% potential views in the english speaking ecosystem.

>>83099 Based and true >>83100 Monopolies do exist but that's not just because of monetization

>>83099 while this is true its plainly not the case that the internet of today is the internet of lets say 2010. There's a lot of things that are different. Im not going to say that OP is right and monetization is to blame here but things have changed and something is to blame

>>83099 The great thing about free market is that it's a fraud. The choice only exists on paper and that barely. In fact it's manipulated just so you keep your mouth shut. The average quality of a product has been deteriorating over years and even earned itself a soykafty name "enshittification". It's real. Now go show choice. There is none. People were never hard to manipulate.

>>83102 Monopolies have become bigger and bigger with time to the point we're essentialy forced to them. See 83098, YouTube's monopoly is so large Google got to a point they don't need to make it even work. It's THE WEBSITE for videos nowadays, regular people use it for their memes, music, vlogs, etc. Companies use it for their trailers, music videos, etc. YouTube's alternatives work, though. They have to, otherwise their users would just use YouTube instead. This is why GNU/Linux appeals to the user's choice and freedom more than Windows usually does. Microsoft can do whatever and people will still use it wheter they like it or not, it became THE OS for computers and comes pre-installed in many computers. Many complain about the automatic updates, yet, they still use it. There's a mistake here, the IRL free market isn't the same as the internet market. Mcdonalds can't force you to eat their slop, Google and Microsoft can and easily, it's very different. Google has the monopoly of E-Mail, Video sharing, Searching... All of their monopolies are so big they've become the standard for many. Not to many they're also interconnected. I don't think you can make an YT account without gmail. >New phone? Make a hecking Google account! >Default search widget? Google! >Default software store? Google? >Videos? Google's YouTube! All preinstalled on many devices... >>83103 >Now go show choice. There is none. Ever consider that people like you could be the source of this problem? The ignorant herd that just uses what they know is bad instead of using a lick of effort to use something else?

>>83104 >instead of using a lick of effort to use something else For example? Morons like you talk alot about doing it yourself, yet what you can do about a bunch of evil governments without taking up a gun is beyond me. There are no alternatives. That's the whole point of a monopoly - try as you might you'll still have to use their products one way or the other.

>>83107 The low effort way is to use opposing country services. In west you can use chinese platforms for open discussion of the west just as they can use western platforms to openly discuss their government. Its why the us wants to ban tiktok - didnt comply with their own propaganda.

>>83107 >yet what you can do about a bunch of evil governments without taking up a gun is beyond me. Not sure what this is supposed to mean, but just like in technology self-sufficiency exists in real life >try as you might you'll still have to use their products one way or the other. Not surprised you're a defeatist. I haven't used Windows or Chrome in my computer in years.

>>83100 >views are manipulated with viewbotting/embedding and site algorithms / promotions altering visibility. Only Twitch and the like have the problem with viewbotting and I can imagine that it's quite easy to tackle by looking at the frequency of the comments, or not letting people cash out instantly, I do agree that it's an issue, but that is bordering fraud rather than unfairness, and I'm sure that corporations like Twitch are quick to call in a lawyer if it's harming their profit margins. I'm saying that only Twitch and the like have this problem because, let's say on Youtube, they also have the like/dislike/comments placed in the algorithmic calculations, they also take notice of the part of Youtube the said user is on, they recommend it to more that reside on that part and then it keeps spreading out until it becomes stagnant, I'll get back to the analogy User A likes E and he likes Z video so the algorithm will recommend it to B, B likes E but he's also fond of F, he likes Z video so the algorithm will pass it to C who likes F but also partakes in G and he happens to like Z video Now the video will float in the E,F,G circle and keep on spreading to the other letters until it becomes stale, and that's when the video dies out. There's definitely way more esotericism in the algorithm than what I've explained but I feel like that gets the main idea clear, viewbotting it would greatly damage the video since let's say every bot is in the default area, O, since training the bots to partake in a different community is a hardship that nobody is going to endure (making google accounts with good proxies which are rare, then training them to specifically dig into a part of content and then finally automating them to act like real humans in context of watching the video, commenting, and liking), if you got the skill to do that, then you're better off doing something else since that's once again, bordering fraud. Viewbotting is irrelevant nowadays since it's close to impossible to make it look legit even if no one looks into it too deeply, the embedding part is indeed a problem but it is again, fraud >Kick only exists because twitch derezzed gambling streams so they gave away a niche market Doesn't Kick only have a 5% revenue charge while Twitch takes up 90% of that money? I remember seeing a video talking about how it's impossible to run a streaming site with that little of a split but that's not the point of this argument so I'll digress. >>83102 >while this is true its plainly not the case that the internet of today is the internet of lets say 2010 There's no accurate science that can reason this so most of it is just guesses, my guess is just that people change. Corporations follow trends so it just takes one big company to do something for the others to follow up, no matter what that is. >>83103 >The great thing about free market is that it's a fraud [...]In fact it's manipulated just so you keep your mouth shut You should elaborate more, I can't argue in good faith if you give off vague descriptions on how you interpret a free market.

>>83110 Bots dont kill twitch profit. Chatbots are in the IRC channel of twitch but dont create video load. So it doesn't affect their income. Secondary as a streamer they just say "someone else is viewbotting me im a victim". Next bad bots dont chat but implementing chat is trivial - just repost. Your bot doesnt understand whats going on but it can pick up other peoples posts and imitate them. And the existence of bots isn't even a question since everyone saw the obvious yt bots with some softporn profile pic repeating a comments. The old state media channels seem also to use fake discussions because i've seen obvious bot posts get "thank you for your comment" where the commenter posted about a current war on cooking video... I think they are trying to setup fake interactions to replace real posts so they can control perception and the bots bugged out. Lastly im also on freelance progammer sites and seen occasional offers to write chatbots for reddit. They build and sell them from places like india where income is 1/10th of west. Its good money for them. As for YT they had the p-score scandal - people found every video got a rating in the website code labeled p-score. They looked at the ratings and the result was dead old media channels with 50k subs got higher scores than popular private people with 250k subs. In other words YT manipulates what you see and looking at who gets benefits its likely paid deals. As for profit margin on botting don't forget poor countries like india exist and their sallaries are 1/10th. You can buy viewbotting for cheap because its good money for them. I like to lurk freelancing coding sites and ive seen job offers to write chatbots.

>>83110 >Doesn't Kick only have a 5% revenue charge while Twitch takes up 90% of that money? I remember seeing a video talking about how it's impossible to run casinos fund kick as an advertisement platform. Twitch is btw kinda similiar -gamedevs have to pay to run drop campaigns on twitch. So neither is financing itself fully through viewers. >>83111 fml, tried to format better and it turned worse, duplicated one part deleted another and only saw error after posting.

>>>83089 Most people don't make any money off the content they produce. They try it out for a few weeks or months, gain experience in editing and such then drop it completely. Forums work well because it's centered around the community rather than an individual. Social media is centered around popular individuals. Monetization is incentive for someone once they become popular to continue doing it. I don't get how normal people tolerate advertising because the second I am forced to watch that soykaf I stop using the website. I haven't watched twitch since 2016? Because adblockers don't really work on it. If Adblock stops working on YouTube I will stop watching YouTube, simple as. These sites are for low quality content for low quality normal people to drown themselves in. I view it as a containment center so I know what to avoid. Content in general gets worse each generation as it becomes easier to produce. The current generation is now AI generated slop so don't be surprised if soykaf becomes even worse.

>>83113 >I haven't watched twitch since 2016? Because adblockers don't really work on it. Many ways to dodge adds: vpn to poor country (advertiser want paying customers), gifted sub, nsfw tag on stream, pipe stream into vlc player I prefer twitch to yt because yt censors too much. Cant discuss anything on YT.

>>83113 >Content in general gets worse each generation as it becomes easier to produce. The current generation is now AI generated slop so don't be surprised if soykaf becomes even worse. I'll have to disagree, there are many great youtube channels creating content that didn't exist before

>>83117 sorry, the fact you refer to it as "content" already says enough

>>83113 >Content in general gets worse each generation as it becomes easier to produce. The current generation is now AI generated slop so don't be surprised if soykaf becomes even worse. This is just not true. In terms of production quality and value, content produced today is far better than it was in the past. And that is in large part due to the fact that it is easier to monetize.

>>83119 >>83117 I like technology connections and branch education I can't think of any other YouTube channels that produce anything of value that's any good. I'd rather watch a good film made by a small studio than some advertising disguised as a video by and for morons on YouTube. >>83114 Imagine actually spending your time defeating ads instead of putting it somewhere that values your time

>>83118 What's this logic supposed to mean? Everything on youtube is content >>83119 I agree

>>83121 >Imagine actually spending your time defeating ads instead of putting it somewhere that values your time Imagine getting iq filtered by adds and then coping with time efficiency. If you wanted to use time efficient you wouldnt go to a entertainment website...

>>83123 >iq filtered by ads successful ad campaigns are what drive what you watch. >entertainment needs to be a waste of time! util e dulci, this goes way back

>>83124 >humans have no agency >all you do and think and consume driven by ads, string pullers >they are also human, driven by own ads >Satan was the first advertiser, apples first sale >all thought derived from this lmao

I agree, and its only going to get worse if these guys have their way. https://magagamer.com/ They are going full corporate cock sucking.

i blame matthew prince for this, he's probably responsible just like with basically any other bad thing on the web that happened after 2008 fuarrrk CLOUDFLARE KILL MATTHEW PRINCE

FUKKK CLOUDFLARE FUCC CLOUDFLARE F U C K CLOUDFLARE

>>83089 I'm just cutting off most of my internet use and strictly using it as a means to create or host my own local media/content. I avoid pretty much all major websites now and just download what I want from them. Internet is pretty much fuarrrking unusable trash now aside from a few places. It’s our fault for getting attached to this and treating it so seriously to begin with. The internet is not the real world and frankly any time spent here not used to benefit yourself is just a disservice to yourself. We had a good run, Even this site is garbage honestly. Every niche chan is either trash or over moderated to the point posting is a tedious tightrope walk of self censorship. Good riddance to all of this honestly I wont miss any of it.

Individuals should self-host everything for mostly themselves and we should aim to build real life communities instead. Be the change you want to see.