Ergonomic chairs

What is the best office chair for long hours of programming? I'm tall and I can't decide between the Steelcase Amia, Steelcase Leap, and Haworth Zody. Any advice?(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST, You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf.)

Just saw that I got a warning for not providing enough detail. I wanted to start a general thread about ergonomic chairs without introducing too much bias, but if that's what the mods prefer, here goes the backstory. I'm a tall European and going to start a remote job soon. Together with my personal computer use, that's 11+ hours per day of sitting in one chair, so I thought I'd get a pretty decent one. I watched the BTOD tier list at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEbbgaMrZVY and the best chairs according to them, excluding the custom ones, are the Herman Miller Embody, Steelcase Amia and Leap, Haworth Zody and Fern, Ergohuman Gen2, and Neutral Posture XSM. Where I live, used Herman Miller chairs are a lot more expensive than used Steelcase chairs. I can get a Steelcase Leap, Steelcase Amia, or Haworth Zody at a decent price. The Amia is a lot cheaper than the Leap and supposedly about as comfortable, so I've narrowed the choice down to Amia vs Zody. People say that the Amia is extremely sturdy and durable. It doesn't have a tilt lock or adjustable lumbar support depth, though, only height. The Zody has more features: in addition to everything in the Amia, it has an adjustable lumbar depth, a forward perch mode, and the ability to lock at any degree of recline. However, a lot of people say that the recline mechanism wears out over time and eventually breaks. So that's my dilemma. What are your experiences with premium ergonomic chairs? Have you ever used them? How did you like them?

What use is an ergonomic chair if you are just going to slouch or hunch over anyway? Either use a zero gravity chair with good back support and hook up a monitor you can view full reclined over you or hell just lay on the floor with a monitor above you. That or get one of those kneeling or standing chairs since that probably is more ergonomic than a normal chair form. I havent had any fancy chairs so i cant suggest any though.

>>78126 i heard kneeling chairs are ass, but the man claiming so was certifiably obese. it could have been a skill issue on his part. i personally do think ergonomic chairs are dumb, and the real value of a chair starts and ends at the cushion and your own posture. i am sitting on an ergonomic chair as we speak and i can say, i prefer the dining chair, and even the plastic lawn chair i had a couple years ago. i think i even prefer the bass amp i was using up until a day ago.

>>78129 I think it would depend on what the angle and level of pads on the knees. They also probably would bother people who get up a lot because your legs are somewhat locked in so getting up is more a challenge for some people.

>>78129 repairmen got knee issues from crawling on their knees all their life. Modern work safety standards require knee padding. I think we can learn from that that sitting on knees is dumb. You can make it less bad with padding but why even go there? >>78123 i had cramp issues in the past doing 10h+ daily but none of them were from chair, desk height, monitor height, keyboard too far away so your arms have to hover forward were issues that i had to fix. The only important aspect with chair is right height so you position relative to desk is good. Also if you wanna help your spine get a gym ball to sit on occasionally. Gives variable movement unlike a chair. Treat it like an exercise, its not for permanent sitting.

>>78137 >i had cramp issues in the past doing 10h+ daily but none of them were from chair, desk height, monitor height, keyboard too far away so your arms have to hover forward were issues that i had to fix. Yeah, I thought of that too. I'm going to get a used crank-adjustable standing desk without actually using it in the standing position, just so that I can dial in the perfect sitting height. But since I'm going to be sitting so much, I figured why not go all out on ergonomics and get a high-end chair too.

>>78138 i got a painters desk, its height + angle adjustable. Slight angle seems to be more comfortable. You can get inclined keyboards of course but that doesn't incline mouse / tablet.

> I need an inclineable adjustable table improvise, adapt, overcome

>>78137 > repairmen got knee issues from crawling on their knees all their life. Modern work safety standards require knee padding. >I think we can learn from that that sitting on knees is dumb. >You can make it less bad with padding but why even go there? That's their full weight though and on the knee cap so it doesnt seem relevant. >gym ball Arent there chairs made to be ball like but have a little more stability and back support?

Why not stand? I've always wished I had one of those adjustable standing desks.

>>78158 the last image is dude putting his weight on knees. As for gym ball no support is part of it. You supposed to move a bit in all directions. Its basically a passive workout for spine while you sit and do something. That's also why its not for permanent sitting - too tiring maintaining good posture on it. >>78159 Standing still is worse than sitting - source is factory line workers. Studies showed them doing worse than office sitters.

>>78161 The weight would be divided between knees and ass I'd assume and some it's more on shins than knee caps. What would stop you from slouching on the ball though? Since all that matters is centre of mass to staying on it, the ball doesnt care what your posture is. Sitting is bad for you, standing is bad for you, laying down is bad for you, walking too much is bad for you, What the fuarrrk am we supposed to do? Lol

>>78162 moderation :) stick to the age old advice. sit at the desk comfortably, and every 20 minutes, take 3 minutes to stare at something 20 feet away to give your eyes a break. once an hour hour, stretch for 10 minutes, and never forget 60 minutes a day of getting your heart rate up with physical activity. watch your diet too, you would be shocked just how much damage unhealthy fats, salt and refined sugar does to your mind. your other option is to allow your corporeal form to wither away and pray to the machine god you get the chance to upload your consciousness before your body gives.

>>78162 >What would stop you from slouching on the ball though? Since all that matters is centre of mass to staying on it, the ball doesnt care what your posture is. You get a feel for posture going bad because on a gym ball anything going off center shifts your gravity center and you start rolling off, that allows you to correct easily. On the chair it doesn't matter so its easy to sit in a fixed bad position. Secondary a changing "bad" posture is better than a perfect static posture. The goal of the gym ball exercise is movement, strengthening spine muscles and getting a feel for good posture so you can replicate good posture more easily when you sit on a chair. Otherwise its really like other poster said - you need to train but you cant overtrain. Moderation in one word. In theory mixing sitting & standing would be also better than just sitting but i dont think anyone got the discipline shifting desk height as frequent as necessary for it to be good. Gym ball is good cause its easy and immediate to swap what you sit on.

>>78164 Going to call bullshit on that famalam, as a habitual ball sloucher in my teenage years I perfected slouching on a ball when my mum tried to get me to sit on one instead of slouching at my computer when I would play counter strike all weekend. You can also hop on it while sitting there, but pray you don't fall off and destroy your computer desk. Just sit on a comfortable height chair and get up every so often to give your body a break and drink some water and look out the window.

Schoolchairs must be pretty cheap and allows for sitting all day.

>>78165 >You can also hop on it while sitting there The real reason to get a gym ball is so I can practice and bounce on it like i'm bouncing on my homies D so I can impress him tonight with my "Glutes"

>>78166 Those chairs hurt my tail bone a bit especially the wooden ones from being flatter.

>>78159 Prolonged standing is even harder on your body than prolonged sitting. People in retail and nursing are getting serious varicose vein issues from it in their twenties. Some ergonomists do recommend standing desks, but you're supposed to use them to get some more posture changes in - for example, 30 minutes sitting, 10 minutes standing, 5 minutes break, repeat.

>>78173 Could it just be from not moving your leg muscles? What if you do calve lifts to help circulation?

>>78175 It's definitely related to lack of movement because prolonged walking doesn't carry the same risks. But since nurses do a mix of standing and walking and still end up being at risk of varicose veins, I'm not sure that taking occasional movement breaks when standing would be enough. You'd probably need to limit how long you stand at a time, or get a treadmill. Some people do use a walking treadmill, they usually report better health but worse typing and mousing accuracy. Note that I'm not a doctor, I've just read some research when deciding on my own setup. In the end, I decided that I'll just do sitting with a break timer. Here's some of what I found: https://www.qldphysio.com.au/standing-desks-are-they-really-worth-the-hype/ >The issue with substituting sitting for standing is that standing is still a sedentary behaviour – in fact, a study has found that an hour of standing burns only 88 calories, compared with 80 calories from an hour of sitting and 210 calories for walking. As such, the association between standing and poor health outcomes is just as significant as sitting. Standing is a slightly more ideal position because there is less forward bend through the low back and hips than in sitting, however it also causes increased fatigue and much more load through the knees, ankles and feet. Which means that, overall, prolonged standing is really no better for you than prolonged sitting. >A 2018 systematic review of all available research into reducing sitting time at work found that, although sit-stand desks generally do reduce sitting time, there is very limited research to suggest that they improve health outcomes. Further research is needed before anything conclusive can be said about the effects of sit-stand desks on improving your well-being. >From a physio’s perspective, the potential benefit of a sit-stand desk is not the standing but the moving! It is shown consistently that even low levels of walking are linked with lower mortality and we know that general movement helps distribute load evenly around the body, improves joint health by preventing stiffness and increases blood pumping around the body from your muscles contracting and relaxing. So, if a sit-stand desk means that you spend more time transitioning between sitting and standing, or if more standing time increases how much you walk around the office, then they may be of great benefit in preventing pain and injury (and potentially wider health risks too). https://ergo.human.cornell.edu/CUESitStand.html >Sitting for more than 1 hour has been shown to induce biochemical changes in lipoprotein lipase activity (an enzyme involved in fat metabolism) and in glucose metabolism that leads to the deposit of fats in adipose tissue rather than these being metabolized by muscle, and extensive sitting also relates to heart disease risks, so people are advocating standing to work because this use more muscle activity (burns about 20% more calories). >But, standing to work has long known to be problematic, it is more tiring, for men with ischemic heart disease it increases the progression of carotid atherosclerosis because of the additional load on the circulatory system. Prolonged standing at work also increases the risks of varicose veins and accounts for more than one fifth of all cases of working age. So standing all day is unhealthy. >Others have proposed a treadmill workstation or a bicycle workstation or an elliptical workstation or a hamster wheel workstation. Treadmill, bicycle and elliptical workstations have been tested and typically shown to decrease computer work performance (typing and mousing slows down and significantly more mistakes are made), although for reading and other non-manual motor tasks the effects are minimal. >Sit using a height-adjustable, downward titling keyboard tray for the best work posture, then every 20 minutes stand for 8 minutes AND MOVE for 2 minutes. The absolute time isn’t critical but about every 20-30 minutes take a posture break and stand and move for a couple of minutes. Simply standing is insufficient. Movement is important to get blood circulation through the muscles. https://www.britsafe.org/safety-management/2022/sit-stand-desks-avoid-the-pitfalls >A crucial misconception is that the purpose of a sit-stand desk is to allow people to ‘stand’ to work; standing for long periods can be bad for you too – leading to varicose veins, or foot problems, for example. >It’s not so much about standing – it’s about movement – alternating from sitting to standing is where the benefit is. We recommend about five to six minutes of standing for 30 minutes sitting. https://uwaterloo.ca/centre-of-research-expertise-for-the-prevention-of-musculoskeletal-disorders/resources/position-papers/sit-stand-workstations-are-they-equal-hype >The evidence found in a number of scientific studies has demonstrated overall decreases in MSD pain/discomfort (e.g. low back pain and sore necks) with sit-stand workstation use in comparison to a standard seated office workstation [9–15]. In addition, one small study on twenty-two healthy females also reported decreases in visual discomfort with sit-stand workstation use [13]. A number of scientific studies have shown that sit-stand workstations offer positive benefits in reducing low back pain/discomfort [9,11,21–23]. A systematic review and meta-analysis recently confirmed that sit-stand workstations reduce low back discomfort [24]. >When changing between sitting and standing throughout the workday and knowing how much time you should spend sitting versus standing, the gold standard for this ratio is currently unknown. The balance of time between sitting and standing is likely different for each individual depending on their low back pain or other MSD status, tolerance to standing and/or sitting, the control over their work organization, and potentially the type of work they perform. >However, using prior research as a basis, the optimal target ratio is likely centered around a 1:1 ratio. Using this ratio, in an 8-hour day, there would be a total of 4 hours of sitting time and a total of 4 hours of standing time. What is certain, is that movement throughout the workday is key. While sitting or standing for 30 minutes is long enough for some individuals to initiate the feeling of low back pain, individuals need to change it up, sit then stand then sit then stand again throughout the day, ideally aiming for 30 minute intervals between sitting and standing and standing and sitting. This amount of time for sitting and standing is below the Guidelines from the Occupational Health and Safety Council of Ontario (OHSCO) (2003), which classifies sitting for more than four to six hours per day as an MSD risk factor and standing for more than 4 hours on a hard work surface as a workplace hazard (Occupational Health and Safety Council of Ontario, 2003). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S009174351400454X?via%3Dihub >Methods: A computer-assisted systematic search of Medline, PubMed, PsycINFO, SPORTDiscus, CINAHL, CENTRAL, and EMBASE databases was employed to identify all relevant articles related to standing and treadmill desk use. >Results: Treadmill desks led to the greatest improvement in physiological outcomes including postprandial glucose, HDL cholesterol, and anthropometrics, while standing desk use was associated with few physiological changes. Standing and treadmill desks both showed mixed results for improving psychological well-being with little impact on work performance. https://texaseva.com/posts/health-lifestyle/are-standing-desks-good-or-bad-for-your-veins/ >Extended periods of sitting have been linked to an increased risk of both heart and kidney disease. Not surprisingly, sitting has also been shown to increase the odds of gaining weight. >standing desks increase your risk of DVTs (deep vein thrombosis) and those lovely, bulging varicose veins we all love to hate. Why is that the case? Standing all day overworks your back, leg and feet muscles as you struggle to maintain one position. And, to find out why all day standing can cause spider veins, just keep reading! >Since neither option is perfect, a standing desk is still a great choice. Because it moves up and down, you can alternate between periods of sitting and time spent standing. But how often should you switch positions? Unfortunately, not everyone agrees on this front. Experts recommend changing positions anywhere between every 20, 30 or 60 minutes. And some get more specific about standing desks. They say you should not stand up to work for more than 10 minutes out of every hour. You can also invest in an anti-fatigue mat to use when you're standing up at your desk. This can help take some pressure off your lower legs and feet. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11103840/ >Results: For men working mostly in a standing position, the risk ratio for varicose veins was 1.85 [95% confidence interval (95% CI) 1.33-2.36] in a comparison with all other men. The corresponding risk ratio for women was 2.63 (95% CI 2.25-3.02). The results were adjusted for age, social group, and smoking. https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/1/27/4081581?login=false >Occupations involving predominantly standing were associated with an approximately 2-fold risk of heart disease compared with occupations involving predominantly sitting. This association was robust to adjustment for other health, sociodemographic, and work variables. Cardiovascular risk associated with occupations that involve combinations of sitting, standing, and walking differed for men and women, with these occupations associated with lower cardiovascular risk estimates among men but elevated risk estimates among women.