Non-backdoored alternatives to Linux Mint?

Hey lainons. I wanted to move to Linux (for a couple of reasons I'll state later in this post) but I have not much tech knowledge whatsoever. I come to you for help, because I've heard the Linux Mint is backdoored. Here are my reasons. 1- I don't like how laggy and bloated windows is. 2- I don't like the updates, I don't like windows constantly making new operating systems (they abandon the previous ones and so do lots of programs, example; steam will stop supporting win10 in 2024) 3- for some reason prebuilt computers are way cheaper than collecting parts in my (3rd world) country. I've heard Linux is very friendly to low spec systems, when I do get a soykafty computer for cheap. TLDR; as the Subject states

up because this soykaf won't show in the catalog

Up because I still need answers

Debian. Barebones system without a backdoor. Or Arch if you want the newest and greatest. (though you can always opt in for the testing or unstable repositories of Debian) Just pick one and learn. Or if you don't want systemd as your init, go with Devuan or Artix. Though my advice for a new Linux user is just use Debian and go from there slowly.

>>71405 Depends what you want, in my opinion the best end point is Manjaro, it has the great package manager of Arch but with extra stability whilst still remaining cutting edge (new package updates are held for two weeks to check for bugs and prevent breakages) and is easy to install as well as having lots of choice for what desktop environment you want (I suggest xfce if you're 100% new as it's the most compatibile with programs).

>>71409 What do you think of Ubuntu LTS?

>>71410 manjaro is like kicking dead whales down the beach. if you want something like arch but more newbie friendly then just use artix or endevour os

Linux Mint is not backdoored. They had an issue with this once 7 years ago.

>>71413 prove this and I will use mint

>>71414 https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2994 https://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/fr/security/news/cybercrime-and-digital-threats/linux-mint-website-hacked-iso-downloads-replaced-with-a-backdoor

>>71410 Recommending Manjaro to someone new to Linux seems oddly sadistic. If you want an easy Arch installer, Endeavour is far superior. Manjaro has been known to break plenty of soykaf, along with causing issues for the entire Arch community (the repo DDoS, for example.) Along with that, it likes to break soykaf quite often, causing the user to have to waste time fixing things that would otherwise just work. Not the best choice for someone who (likely) hasn't even used a terminal before.

>>71409 arch and artix are terrible recommendations for new linux users. like other people ITT have pointed out, there are decent "just werks" arch-based distros, but OP is probably better off just avoiding them altogether for now. manjaro is good and easy when it's working, but it's extremely prone to breakage, which gets very annoying and necessitates that you back up your files more frequently than you should have to. debian is good unless your graphics drivers don't work upon install (which is entirely likely), in which case you'll have to try to find some workaround for their freetard nonsense, which is a non-trivial task for an inexperienced user. OP would be better off with a debian-derivative that doesn't insist on exclusively using freeware

I like nixos Unfortunately, it's definitely not a beginner OS. But if you're willing to spend the time to learn it, it's rewarding.

>>71417 >>71405 Not to mention their constant negligence in updating certs. Don't use manjaro if you've used linux before, and certainly dont if you're just getting your feet wet. Arch is the easiest distribution if a) you are at least somewhat tech savvy and/or want to learn, b) don't mind reading some news before updating (sometimes you have to do some manual procedure to prevent your system from breaking), and c) have the discipline to remember to update the system. It's a rolling release so you shouldn't have it autoupdate. It's easy once you get into it, because it has the best software availability out of all linux distros thanks to the aur, and has arguably the best docs (arch wiki). If you can't be bothered to learn tho, don't install arch. Don't go with debian either, because packages in the debian repos are so old that the repos are almost completely useless at least for networking software. They also ship eol software which can be a security risk. Fedora is a decent compromise if you just want something that works, the only catch is that you need to enable a third party repo to get multimedia codecs. Mint I think is also fine if you want something ubuntu based, better than mainline ubuntu because you don't get snaps (snaps suck), but I haven't really used it. Mint and Fedora are probably safe to have autoupdates turned on. Always verify iso hashes when you download the OS image, particularly when downloading from a mirror or http server.

>>71405 Install Void Linux. It doesn't get in your way.

>>71415 So the backdoor isn't there anymore in the downloads? >>71420 You have my interest with software availability and yes I DO want to learn more about technology. So that leaves me stuck between arch and mint. I'm afraid Mint could be too dumbed down and if I use it I'll never learn anything about Linux at all. I might just go with Arch. Seems beginner friendly enough but you're also learning something. Thanks

If you're gonna keep falling for "X is backdoor" memes without any evidence, then you might as well give up.

>>71423 No, it's not anymore >>71405 Apologies for throwing a spanner in the works, but if you want to learn I'd recommend void instead of arch. They're both minimal, but void is possibly more so. Void, however, uses runit instead of systemd, which is much simpler and easier to hack and learn with (everything is shell scripts). Also, it's easier to install so you can get it installed quickly and then work on building your system. You also mentioned you hate updates, and while Void has rolling release (a.k.a. no real major versions), it is far more stable than arch. I've had servers running void be turned on for literally over a year, updated several times, and not broken, and I've also had a void desktop for 3 years now that's never broken. Its minimal-ness means that you'll have to be able to install a desktop environment in the command line, but that's the same with arch iirc. Main page here: https://voidlinux.org/ Handbook here: https://docs.voidlinux.org/

>>71405 steam will stop supporting windows 7 and 8 by 2024 not windows 10 and how in hell is Linux mint backdoored >>71424 this

>>71423 arch is NOT beginner friendly, please don't listen to that guy.

>>71427 arch was my first distro its ok if you're interested in learning

>>71429 >>71419 that sage is negated unfortunately

>>71424 >>71426 Yes I think it was silly of me to say without proof sorry >>71411 Or maybe zorin? I was thinking of getting that

>>71429 I used a YouTube tutorial and it only took me like 15 minutes to get everything working the way I wanted it, I think nowadays it's only super hard if you don't know exactly what you want because the possibilities are endless. I'm not a complete noob when it comes to Linux but it took me a lot longer to try it than I'd like to admit because everyone made it out to be a lot worse than it actually is.

>>71425 >>71423 Mint is probably fine, distro choice doesn't matter as much as you might think, the only issue is that you might find it more annoying to install some software, and you might be annoyed that your programs aren't all up to date. In mint, at least important stuff like web browsers should always be updated tho. I like void too, but the last I checked they were in need of more package maintainers. Btw, arch wiki has useful info relevant to other distros too, and they have info on even some stuff that you would really not expect to be there, so check it there before you even Google about any linux (or even hardware related) question you might have.

>>71422 It is extremely stable. I have never experienced any issues whatsoever and it is one of the unique distros that offer musl support.

>>71405 It is a bit of a meme, but I unironically think you should use Arch linux. It it not the most "minimalist" distro out there, but it comes fairly bare bones, so you only install what you actually need. You need to update it regularly, but you can keep using everything during updates, and they go by pretty quickly. It also has a kick ass package system with both the official packages and a community package repository that gives you access to almost any program you could possibly want to install. If anything breaks or is confusing, arch linux has a distro-specific wiki with just about every answer you could ever desire. If you want an even less backdoored system, there is always Artix, a fork of arch that has the choice of a few different init systems to replace the controversial system D. Downside is that there are a few kinks to sort out such as add some extra server IPs to pacman's configuration files so you can access all of the servers. It also has a few differences with customizing lower level systems due to the custom init systems having slightly different commands. e.g. using poweroff instead of shutdown.

>>71405 Your CPU is probably backdoored anyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine

>>71405 Are you for fuarrrking real??? Wow..

>>71405 Honestly m8 just go with Debian 12, yeah some packages are a bit older when it comes to features, but if you care about security they are extremely reliable I'd say. As for soykafty 3rd world scraped together parts (which honestly based as all fuarrrk, keep going m8) I'd go with XFCE since it's extremely light on resource usage and can be customized to look quite nice. As for updates, on linux just embrace them, specially if you're on Debian you'll not get them super frequently but they are super non intrusive, just plop the command and let them update while you continue with your life, reboot when you get a kernel update.

please stop recommending arch. rolling release is the biggest pain in the ass i ever experienced. i thank god i didn't use it when their kernel update fuarrrked up intel gpu screens forever. and that kernel upgrades always broke my wifi i still wake up at nights sometimes after having a nightmare about it. maybe i just should have used lts kernel, i don't know. having to constantly deal with updates is so fuarrrking painful. your configurations constantly break, because there is always something changing. you regularly have to fix it manually and constantly monitor their update notes or whatever the fuarrrk it's called. the aur is a joke, how the fuarrrk can i believe a bunch of no names? do you think it's funny to review .pkg files yourself every time? no it's not. i found aur to be a huge disappointment. i remember how it just broke and refused to install soykaf and i couldn't care less. likely the irony is that pacman is the only good thing about arch and i ultimately don't give a fuarrrk because i only upgrade once a month or two to get point release and security updates. on the other hand, red hat is evil. slackware is joke, who the fuarrrk installs dependencies manually. such a waste of time and nerves when you just want it to fuarrrking work. it leaves only Debian with its derivatives and Ggggentooooooooooo. which is effectively no choice at all. when choosing between Debian and its children just ask yourself a question: who the actual fuarrrk needs a clone when you can just use the original? as you can see there's only one disto left and that's Debian. unless you have some specific needs, of course (which might include a restless worm up your ass urging you to make you life more complicated and your system more 'customized').

>>71405 I really love Void Linux, It's the best distro I've used so far. It's splendid.

There are backdoors everywhere, even in your hardware (>>71526). The Linux kernel is no doubt backdoored somewhere, and with most distros shipping a giant kernel with everything enabled it means you are gonna have around the same base surface, nevermind the userland (X, soystemD..). Not really relevant to what OP was actually asking but just wanted to add it. >>71685 >>71538 >>71425 I have had nothing but issues with Debian, for some reason. The installer always runs into an error or something. Arch and Artix have been the best experiences on Linux I've had, it is an awesome distro, and I'd recommend new users trying it out for learning, but not a desktop. The issue I usually encounter with an Arch or Artix install is that the package manager becomes unstable and can't manage the system correctly (invalid keys, etc.). I currently run FreeBSD, it is an amazing desktop, although there are many kernel panics, but I have messed around with Void Linux and am going to install it along side FreeBSD. I was unabled to do this because for some reason my networking card was not detected, but this is now working again I guess (only happened in Void, worked again on the same version of Void)? It seems a reasonable replacement for Artix.

>>71405 If you are so concerned about your software having a backdoor, your best starting point is to use 100% free (as in freedom) software where possible. Free software is the foundation of security, including being secure from the developers of the software that you use, but also it is not the end. The default Linux kernel includes binary blobs, look into the Linux-libre kernel: https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/anuncio/2010-03-Linux-2.6.33-libre.en.html https://web.archive.org/web/20181011013739/http://forums.blagblagblag.org/viewtopic.php?t=4665 https://www.gnu.org/distros/ Your computer may also be infected with proprietary firmware, for that look into Libreboot first, then Coreboot if Libreboot is not possible: https://libreboot.org/ https://www.coreboot.org/ Finally, if you don't need a program, don't use it. Disable features in programs that you do not use/need. Most obvious first choice is compiling your own Linux-libre kernel, adding things onto a "make allnoconfig" base to turn it functional. Either build the documentation yourself, or look at the infected kernel's docs: https://docs.kernel.org/index.html

Gentoo if you know what you're doing If you don't know what the fuarrrk you are doing and you're really schizo use Guix

Some will probably disagree with my answer, and honestly those people are wrong. There I said it. There is this ideological cult around Linux that compares to Christianity and is just sad and pathetic. Stop! >inb4 the asshurt OpenBSD and Arch users reply I get where you're coming from and I respect your viewpoint, but the fact is if you are actually new to Linux, as in you've never installed or used it before, you should just start with an Ubuntu LTS version. You will have a better experience upfront while you get the grips with it and find what you like and don't like about it and then you can branch out into another distro to fits your specific taste. >b-but Ubuntu IS backdoored!!! Qualify this statement for me, because compared to Window and MacOS, Ubuntu isn't backdoored at all. There are telemetry features that can be disabled, sure. And your ISP is likely "backdoored" as well, so whats your point? If you are serious about learning Linux, just do yourself a favor and start with Ubuntu.

>>73039 Ubuntu is great for someone who just wants a working OS for daily use. If you want to learn Linux i.e. get a general sense of whats under the hood, then Ubuntu isn't necessarily great for that. It can be but the install process for Arch, Gentoo or BSD can teach you a lot if your willing to go through it. > There is this ideological cult around Linux that compares to Christianity and is just sad and pathetic. Stop! This. The cultish elitism and negativity is a problem. Linux advocates celebrate when it hit 1% of the market share but also soykaf on people for using Ubuntu. Do they want it to be popular or a niche? They can't have it both ways. Arch isn't really that hard to install. The documentation is just soykaf and it intimidates people and a lot of the people who are supposed to support you are assholes. Linux elitism is retarded. Linux has failed anyway. The only reason its userbase has increased is thanks to Chromebooks and Android, which are spyware. If your really fanatical about your privacy. I mean really fanatical. Just don't use a computer or use one that isn't online. Bin Laden's PC was a Windows XP machine. It had no internet connection, no bluetooth, no wireless capabilities. Everything was brought in or out via USB. The man could film, edit and release videos taunting Bush and the CIA and NSA couldn't locate his machine.

>>71405 Why not Linux Mint itself? Considering how anti- zionist the creators are, it might be the least backdoored OS out there even.

ubuntu if you have a job linux mint if not

>73039 Imo Ubuntu is like kicking dead whales down the beach because it's controlled by big corpo's and very not-minimalistic. If you just want to fuarrrk around with Linux, or you're new, then yeah Ubuntu would be in the list. But if you want something lighter, more secure I'd say Void Linux or Alpine Linux

https://www.raspberrypi.com/software/raspberry-pi-desktop/

>>71405 void linux is all you need

>>73240 i've heard void linux is disastrous when it comes to updates, so i wouldn't call it exactly secure. >>73053 there's also gentoo! or not? linux mint is downstream of debian, so where's the guarantee backdoors don't come down from parent to child? anyway what makes you think debian is backdoored at all? it's open source!

>>74269 >i've heard void linux is disastrous when it comes to updates, That's just FUD. I have ran it and there haven't been any problems with it. >there's also gentoo! or not? Yes. It's a good distro. >linux mint is downstream of debian, Linux Mint is downstream of Ubuntu and Ubuntu, in turn, is downstream of Debian.

>>74269 I think you are thinking of Arch Linux. Void Linux is still using rolling release, but they are not "cutting edge". Sometimes it takes a bit until a new version of a program is available (e.g. GCC version 13 is not available right now, the repo only offers 12.2.0). In the few years I have used void it's been pretty stable. The few issues I had were with certain software (namely a font library dropping bitmap support), but you'd get that on every distro that updates that package.

What does Lain think of Vanilla OS ? I may be wrong but it seems like it was made for people who don't know what distro to pick.

How is Mint backdoored? I have the xfce version on my laptop and it runs well for school. I'm still kind of new to Linux. I've been using it for just over a year now. My desktop OS is Ubuntu 22.04 LTS. I would actually recommend you start there, then work your way up to something "better" when you feel you know what you want, because believe me, there's a lot of soykaf to take in for a newcomer. The only "backdoored" thing I can think of in Ubuntu is Snap, which is a packaging system, or a way to get software. A while back there was controversy because they made the server backend that delivers the software proprietary. Luckily, you can remove Snap. I find it largely useless anyway since Flatpak exists. If you want a good starter OS I would recommend the following: 1. Install Ubuntu 22.04 LTS 2. Remove Snap 3. Install Flatpak. Only use Flatpak when absolutely necessary. But if you want Steam, I would recommend installing the Flatpak version. Anything gaming-related basically I would recommend Flatpak 4. Install Aptitude and Synaptic (In the terminal "sudo apt install ____") 5. Install Extension Manager. Search the Extension store for ArcMenu and Dash to Panel. Install both. 5. If you need to install something, check if it's in apt (not Aptitude) first: "apt list | grep [software name]" 6. Next check if the developers website has a deb package (.deb file). You can either right click them, open with other application, then Software Install, or open the terminal and run "sudo dpkg -i [package name]" 7. If the software has something called a PPA then that's even better. PPAs are software specifically tailored for Ubuntu. 8. If all this fails, you should then try a Flatpak or build from source. If you have dependency issues building from source, then Aptitude and Synaptic can help you. See all the soykaf there is to take in? This is just installing software, I didn't even get in to desktop environments or window manager stuff. That's why I would say just worry about making a functional Ubuntu desktop first. If you're worried about backdoors/surveillance it's still a major step up from Windows, so you'd be doing yourself a favor making the switch. For me personally, it's been an uphill battle but I can say that I'm pretty much back to the level of computer literacy I had on Windows, and maybe more now that I do minor bash scripting stuff. The only thing I've been struggling with lately is trying to get AMD's proprietary drivers to work, but I feel like that's my last real hurdle.

>>74349 reads like step by step instruction for people who don't know how to open browser on windows, honestly. i had been using linux for only half a year when i installed arch (manually, only relying on instructions provided by the wiki) and was already messing with scripting and programming. before linux i was typical windows i-dont-give-a-fuarrrk user. when i see posts like that i honestly can't help cringing. >If you need to install something, check if it's in apt (not Aptitude) first: "apt list | grep [software name]" no. the right way is apt search $this_and_that if you need to find a file, like /bin/whateverthefuck, then apt-file find /bin/whateverthefuck >Next check if the developers website has a deb package (.deb file). You can either right click them, open with other application, then Software Install, or open the terminal and run "sudo dpkg -i [package name]" not smart. if you have to install that .deb file, do apt install ./file.deb this way it behaves better. i'd avoid installing .deb files from internet at all, but for example virtualbox is easier installed this way, so alas. >If the software has something called a PPA then that's even better. PPAs are software specifically tailored for Ubuntu. but be ready that you won't have PPAs on other distros and you can't just install ubuntu .deb on <insert your distro name>, so you'll have to find a better solution. i suggest you ditch the idea about PPAs right away unless you're gonna stay on ubuntu. for me ubuntu proved to be extremely unstable and sluggish, got fed up with it less than after a month and not going to return to it ever. >See all the soykaf there is to take in? the only thing you should really take in is the skill to read manuals. after you know how to read manuals (and understand English well enough) everything becomes suddenly more or less trivial. i didn't know English when i started and it only took me year to learn. and i had pretty tight schedule all the while getting around gnu/linux.

>>74353 >i had been using linux for only half a year when i installed arch What do you actually DO on your computer, though? Not impressed at all if you just rice your desktop and post memes

>>74354 >What do you actually DO on your computer, though? I use it. Not much except STEM related work. What do you even mean though? >Not impressed at all Sorry, next time I'll do better and impress you. >rice your desktop and post memes no

>>74355 Well then that explains it. Of course you're going to have an easy time with Linux if you mainly sit in your IDE. Try getting DaVinci Resolve to work with an AMD card. Try configuring Pipewire or what have you to get decent latency on a good DAW such as Bitwig or Ardour. Try gaming. I should have mentioned in my "guide" to enable Pipewire as well, now that I think about it.

>>74357 I've had enough of hardware issues and reading of driver sources. Just because somebody faces different issues than you doesn't mean they 'have it easy'. >an AMD card AMD cards have a very good open source card. I have never owned one though. Anyway, you saying >try this try that does not tell me much except that it is not trivial. There are a lot of things on Linux that seem trivial but turn out to be very involved.

>>74358 >AMD cards have a very good open source card Yes, and certain industry standard software (DaVinci) require you install the proprietary ones. Very difficult to do if you're a newcomer/don't have the "perfect" card. I have an RX 5500 and the amdgpu-install script is rife with problems. First of all in their own documentation they don't even mention that you HAVE to add the --accept-eula flag if you want any proprietary drivers - it just says that you can use it to skip the accept prompt. Then their version of the dkms package doesn't compile correctly, so you're pretty much soykaf out of luck from the get-go. I've put Resolve on the backburner for now and I've been having a time just trying to figure out how to work hashcat correctly, i.e. have it interact with my GPU. I don't know what the fuarrrk OpenCl is but I guess I have 3 instances of it on my system (1 from Ubuntu, 1 from AMD, and 1 I'm not sure), none of which are being utilized by hashcat. I also have the right rocm version installed, and yes I compiled hashcat from source. So don't tell me that it's about "reading the manuals" because even when I do exactly that there are problems sometimes.

>>74359 >So don't tell me that it's about "reading the manuals" Sometimes the manuals are in the sources and sometimes in your head. Good luck. Anyway, I was talking about getting your system up and running. fuarrrking with your hardware is equally frustrating on most distributions and doesn't have much to do with original point.

>>71418 Debian (unfortunately) includes nonfree drivers by default now, and there's a difference between freeware and Free Software.

I don't know what everyone is bickering about. You have zero reason not to use Ubuntu for your first distro. Yeah, it may be monitored or "backdoored", but it's still a hell of a lot better than Windows. Once you get used to the Linux ecosystem you can switch to another distro like Arch or Gentoo.

>>74374 >Debian (unfortunately) includes nonfree drivers by default now Only in installation media, so that it boots and works properly. You can always avoid them by proper usage of debootstrap and your brain. Also, I have 2 blue rays of Debian and see nothing except non-free-firmware and main repositories. Elaborate.

>>74375 Ubuntu is overbloated disgusting soykaf.

>>74378 It has the largest userbase with the most support for n00bs. Even the bloat on Ubuntu doesn't come near to the sheer obesity that is Windows. Again, zero reason not to start with Ubuntu

>>74379 there are ideological reasons

>>74379 At this point I no longer recommend *buntus for newbies because I don't want to consign them to a distro that is on a collision coarse with future disaster. I was glued to *buntu myself for far too long to the point where it became unhealthy when it comes to actually understanding how Linux works. The GUI training wheels on modern *buntu (particular with regard to package management) are totally insufficient and just serve to obscure how things really work in a detrimental way. Now I recommend Devuan or Debian for beginners.

>>74349 >How is Mint backdoored? I have the xfce version on my laptop and it runs well for school. Linux Mint is not backdoored. It's just bunch of FUD. >The only thing I've been struggling with lately is trying to get AMD's proprietary drivers to work, but I feel like that's my last real hurdle. 99% of time, you don't need them. Just use the FLOSS amdgpu driver. But if you really need the proprietary AMD drivers, there is this ArchWiki page that tells you how to do it: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AMDGPU_PRO >>74378 So is Linux Mint and all other beginner-friendly distros. Everyone should start with Xubuntu or Linux Mint mate version. Once the beginner has learned the basics of Bash and CLI, he can switch to Arch, Void or Gentoo or whatever.

>>74383 Debian is the best distro out there, if not counting systemd, because has every package you can dream of. And all the packages are nicely divided between repos by license. No other distribution offers this. On other distributions you have to go through all the hell of compiling and packaging yourself which is a disaster and literally impossible to get into when you are in suicidal depression.