lainchan / Ω
Making money on the internet
Linda Lee · 2022-10-27 12:26
I've recently started making money online by designing NFTs for some German guys I know. It's the first money I've ever made (I'm 18).
Are there any other hustles I can pursue in making money over the internet? So far my ideas include:
>YouTube
>A tutorial blog (will probably make money only in donations, though)
>A website for referral links
What do you do to make some dough online?
Mentat · 2022-10-27 13:08
>YouTube
>A tutorial blog (will probably make money only in donations, though)
>A website for referral links
Just do those things
Nemissa · 2022-10-27 15:47
>>64780
I want to see what other options there are
Naomi Nascimento · 2022-10-27 18:55
Find an area of odious inefficiency in some industry and write software to solve the issue. You will spot them very quickly if you know where to look.
Zero Cool · 2022-10-27 19:31
>>64784
you are high larry us
Anamika · 2022-10-27 21:41
>Youtube
It'd be nice to know what sorts of videos you plan to make, but I'd bet significant money you will not make significant money doing this.
>A tutorial blog (will probably make money only in donations, though)
Unless you have some serious skills or are a godlike communicator you probably will not make money doing this. Even then it will be very difficult.
>A website for referral links
Some more specificity would be nice but I feel pretty confident saying you will not make money doing this regardless.
If money is the end goal here, I think you're approaching things from the wrong perspective. Let me explain:
>It's the first money I've ever made (I'm 18).
I think the first thing you should do is take the time you would spend on this and go get a real life job at the prevailing wage that you can tolerate enough to do better than half your coworkers for a couple months. For the money, but mostly for the experience of what it's like to trade your time to someone else in exchange for money. Even considering what things you choose to do, working a job will show that time spent is usually the most onerous part of earning money. You only get a finite number of seconds, and enough days of spending a third of them on getting money for the other third you don't spend sleeping hammers home pretty quickly that you're going to want either intrinsic reward or as high a rate as you can manage out of whatever work you do.
I say all of this because your suggestions are notoriously low on rate of time spent to money earned for the vast majority of people who work in these "fields". Youtubing and blogging pay entirely based off of how discovered you are, and the internet's at what's probably at least a decade's low point of discoverability. Even the small pond of the topic you choose to make videos on about is almost certainly exabytes wide, and today's search and feed algorithms put a record emphasis on already established content makers. Websites are even worse. To overcome this, you'd have to put an absurd amount of effort into what's essentially one-man marketing, or accept making zero dollars.
If your goal is to make money, especially on the internet, choose something that doesn't require discoverability, or at least requires you individually to discover opportunities instead of tens of thousands of people to discover you before a reasonable amount of cash starts rolling in. Even the top one percent of one percent of YouTubers tend to be worn to misery by the grind of getting ad revenue, because it's just that hard. You're making money right now because you're not doing something that required discovery; you already knew your German friends. Save yourself up to years of your life and find more of that type of thing. (Or even better, give up the internet, go get a degree in applied math, and become a quantitative analyst for some mutual fund or something. All the income of a doctor or lawyer, and probably more, with a fraction of the education cost and basically no regulatory hurdles hanging over your head. You might not enjoy the work, but you'll never want for money again and will get to retire early onto what some make as a job income. It's a decent gig.)
All this, of course, assumes earning money is your priority here. If you want to Youtube or blog because you enjoy it, knock yourself out. Everyone needs a hobby. Maybe you'll get very lucky and it will become your job. Maybe I'll find a thousand bucks on the ground tomorrow and build myself a new computer. It's happened to more than zero people before, maybe even more than one hundred.
Yu-ichi · 2022-10-28 07:06
How'd you start learning about making nfts? Is it just designing art and going to a website and registering it or is it more involved? Also looking for a side hustle. All I do is just help out my neighbors, so I'd like something I can do in the comfort of my room.
Turner · 2022-10-28 07:10
>>64794
I never made an NFT, but it's open source and well documented, why not just take a hello world Solidity ERC-20 github repo
Delilah · 2022-10-28 14:02
>>64794
>Is it just designing art and going to a website and registering it or is it more involved
they are "registered" or "deployed" via a contract which needs to be developed, there's usually teams behind collections but it's probably doable by one person
Ein · 2022-11-13 11:46
>>64777
Here is what I did (this may vary depending on your country):
Save a soykaf ton of money by working and getting a decent job:
-buy property
-Airbnb it
I was in your position before and that is what I am working on now.
Y.T · 2022-11-13 13:34
>>65147
even better: rent property, air BnB above rent, keep the difference and no taxes or liabilities
Random · 2022-11-13 22:24
>>65147
>>65151
Lowlife SCUMBAGS!
Delilah · 2022-11-14 00:39
if you good at arts and crafts you can sell stuff on etsy and similar services. or buy stuff cheap on creigslist,ebay facebook marketplace ect... and resell it at an higher price later
Unsigned · 2022-11-14 00:51
>>65158
Facebook Marketplace ruined my life. I literally never want to touch that fuarrrking platform with a 12 inch pole but there's nothing else that people use in my area. I can't justify anything to make a Facebook account. Even if I was dying in the street and needing to sell a random thing that I have in my backpack for food. Why can't we have a platform that people actually use locally that's a decent platform to buy, sell, and trade on?
Judge Fang · 2022-11-14 07:55
>>65159
> a platform that people actually use locally that's a decent platform to buy, sell, and trade on?
Sounds like Nextdoor.
Tomohisa "Tom" Kanezaki · 2022-11-16 08:05
Could I use conways game of life to make NFT's? Would there be a market for that sort of thing, or would i have to somehow force it into existence.
Hong, Guil Dong · 2022-11-17 10:11
what about getting a job and/or selling your lain related media?
Arisu Mizuki · 2022-11-28 12:10
There is no easy way to make money online. You still need to sell something that people are willing to buy just like everyone else. Unless you intend to spread malicious software onto unsuspecting computers and mine cryptocurrency.
Hacker · 2022-11-29 07:59
>>64777
>Youtube
I think you'd be investing more in whatever it is you produce on there, whether it be in time or equipment/whatever than the amount you'd be taking in. Same for those two other things.
>>65151
Nice gif.
>>65455
>There is no easy way to make money online.
Is there an easy way to make money offline?
Even something ludicrous like tripping over a half buried suitcase full of unmarked burger shekels requires the effort of walking.
Guess it depends on what your definiton of 'easy' is in the first place... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dr. X · 2022-11-29 14:27
if you have some money and some room, an easy way to get money is to buy art in limited quantity from people that have a medium to big fanbase
some of it will loose value, but I've got quite a few CDs I bought only a few years ago that are worth more than twice their price now.
It's nothing miraculous and I don't think it'll help OP (I doubt you have funds to buy much stuff since you're 18) but if anyone's interested, it's a thing.
I know in my country it also happens with limited editions of hardback books.
It is still a little risky (the thing you bought may never increase in value) so I'd also recommand buying only soykaf that you actually don't mind owning/keeping
Bob Arctor · 2022-12-13 17:52
>>64777
I taught myself how to use FL Studio and now have made about 600 - 700 hundred dollars from selling the beats via Youtube and Paypal
Eldon Tyrell · 2022-12-13 22:04
I'm glad you're making money via nfts anon.
I don't have much to offer in the conversation, but I wish you all the best.
Rick Deckard · 2022-12-14 19:48
Don't do any influencing, lainon. It's a waste of time and doesn't make you that much money. That being said, there are some ways to make money online
Identify a niche that businesses would outsource to (e.g. spreadsheets but you could probably think of something more original) and do that.
Linda Lee · 2022-12-15 04:58
>>64791
wow this is an amazing post, you are 100% correct
Gyula Kovacs · 2022-12-15 11:50
If you have any sort of programming skills, reverse engineering old video-games and making them available on portable/mobile/niche platforms will get you some patrons.
Lord Nikon · 2022-12-15 12:37
>>65862
also, people who make cores for FPGAs seem to be doing quite well.
Yamaoto Toshi · 2022-12-15 13:18
>designing NFTs
anon, why would you subject yourself to something so horrible like that?
Mentat · 2022-12-16 00:44
Not even a joke or troll post but I'm really considering making videos of myself farting for some extra cash. Maybe even doing fart audio for those who want it for fart fetish edits, etc.
William Holtzer · 2022-12-16 12:14
>>65869
Why that fetish specifically? Is there that much more money in it than just regular camwhoring?
Spike Spiegel · 2022-12-17 00:05
>>65882
It's a growing and very marketable niche fetish right now. Plus I'm into it myself. I literally get close to orgasm just from lifting up my leg and letting them rip as loud as I can.
Anonymous · 2022-12-27 10:03
I wanna learn more about freelance, but don't really know the sites that are good for it.
It's for sure better than wageslaving, and as long as I have contacts I can get enough money to be chill.
Void · 2023-01-28 05:15
>>64777
are you designing and minting it yourself or you're just giving up your art/design for free (or actually one time fee and the german guys sell it for 10000{not to mention the amount}x the price they paid you).
I think if you actually sold that NFT yourself (multiple times) you'd have about a hundred thousands by now.
Anamika · 2023-02-05 16:19
>>67037
not true. the Hoe market is oversaturated. Majority of onlyfans, something like 80%, make less than $100 a month. It's a useless endeavor that can follow you for the rest of your life.
BloodCat · 2023-02-06 04:53
>>67072
Doesn't matter most of them are making more money than I ever could.
Roy Batty · 2023-02-06 08:34
>>67081
they're not. there are a few named outliers that are making big bucks because they're the stars everyone knows their names, there are a few pulling an average salary, and the rest are all showing their assholes and full on everything for cents on the dollar. because you know a handful of extreme cases majority of them are not pulling in anything.
you're better off statistically getting a regular job.
Joey · 2023-02-06 11:34
>>67072
I think that 80% figure includes inactive accounts. I can't find a good source, but some cursory web searches suggest the average active account earns $150-200 a month, although I haven't found a source that explains how that number was calculated.
It's important to understand that many of the content creators use onlyfans to supplement other online sex work like streaming, private snapchats, or direct customer engagement (sugar daddies, findom), and have extra income in the form of gifts from Amazon wishlist purchases. So the onlyfans income may be low, but is unlikely to be representative of their full digital sex work income. For example, many streamers upload recordings of their streams to onlyfans to supplement their stream incomes.
You are correct that most online sex workers aren't becoming rich like >>67037 seems to think, but most aren't only on onlyfans, so their income is not as bad as just $100 a month.
It's also worth considering the time to income ratio. $100 a month isn't bad if you're only doing a couple hours a work each month, or if youre passively earning money on old content.
>>67081
But you could do it, too. When I, a male, was in my early twenties, I briefly did some streaming and averaged around $50 an hour. Once you get a few regulars who like to hop into private streams with you, you can plan your streams around their schedules to start making a lot of money in just a few minutes.
Do take heed that It is more mentally draining than you would expect.
Dozer · 2023-02-07 00:57
>>67087
>>67088
I literally recorded myself earlier pooping. Maybe I should find somewhere to upload it online and start my newfound life. Maybe I could even sell it in mason jars. "Gamer Boy Poop and Piss" as a deluxe sell. Only $100 a jar.
Judge Fang · 2023-02-08 06:51
>>66903
Not that guy, but I did some similar work about a year ago. Unless you plan on jumping through hoops (that usually make the "art" borderline unsellable) just minting NFTs entails significant upfront costs, and this isn't even including all the work you have to go through to convince people to buy the damn things.
BloodCat · 2023-03-23 23:29
>>64777
Check out the beermoney subreddit. Some survey sites are pretty good like prolific, but they're quick to ban you if you slip up.
I also did focus groups I found on craigslist.
Tequila · 2023-03-30 07:54
>>68306
Where do you find people like that?
Cypher · 2023-07-27 08:23
I've made a bit of money playing poker. used this book to learn how to beat the lowest limits.
its not easy but doable if you stick to it
Terzibashjian · 2023-07-28 07:08
>>65159
>Why can't we have a platform that people actually use locally that's a decent platform to buy, sell, and trade on?
what happened to OpenBazaar?
Unnamed · 2023-07-28 17:00
torrent movies or podcasts then cut them up into youtube shorts.
Jet Black · 2023-08-03 16:02
>>65808
>600 - 700 hundred dollars
Over what period of time?
Agent Jones · 2023-08-07 10:10
>>64777
You can teach yourself just about anything on the internet, and it's a lot easier to make money when you know things other people don't. Learn a second language, learn math and cryptography, learn how to make something. If you want something quicker and have a little bit of starting capital, buy a cheap laser cutter, around 40-50W, fix it up since out of the box it's going to be nearly unusable chinesium, buy some soykaf to cut/engrave, and sell for a markup on etsy. It is generally easier to make money off of things with tangible value, but abstract thinking skills will take you farther.
Yu-ichi · 2023-08-29 03:08
I've tranformed 10 euros to roughly 270 euros in an hour by opening csgo cases and with extreme luck, but i tried getting more and now I'm at a 10 euro loss. If you like gambling you could try that but also couldn't you just copy those ad filled soykafty android games? they all look really simple and considering how many people install those, you could make some money
Guthrie · 2023-08-29 07:16
Idea: Find a reputable embroidery company that does wholesale custom patchs and sell patchs relating to lainchan/lain webring or the smallweb.
Spike Spiegel · 2023-09-09 14:29
if the goal is passive income, i caught onto the grift of cutting up comedy podcasts and uploading 10 minute clips as their own videos. notably cum town, chapo trap house, and mssp, other low quality comedy podcasts which don't really have any structure. the algorithm would be
1. randomly select a section of podcast from dataset
2. use speech to text recognition to get some idea of what it's about, to auto title the video
3. make a thumbnail (i do this part manually, putting pictures of the dude's faces over some random image)
4. use ffmpeg to create the video (no animation just a still stock photo lmfao)
5. (optional) interject original content like some soykafty music you composed to allow yourself to copyright claim (not strike) your own video to assure you earn the revenue.
i've made thousands of dollars like this. getting sick of it and i have a good job now. if you do this, shout out lainchan somewhere on your page hehe
Debbie Charteris · 2024-02-27 03:56
Just lost my PC recently and I really need some passive income, is any of this doable on android?
I've been looking into doing an AI onlyfans, been following the steps from this video
https://youtu.be/nc9kq9ZkNV8?feature=shared
However I have not found a stable diffusion app where I can input a custom code and database.
I have an office job where there are lot of dead hours, it would be pretty cool if I could use this free time to make some extra dough.
Lain Iwakura · 2024-02-27 08:25
Bug Bounty.
It's hacking, but legal. And more more more harder than blackhat hacking.
XERXES · 2024-02-29 09:58
>>65808
>I taught myself how to use FL Studio and now have made about 600 - 700 hundred dollars from selling the beats via Youtube and Paypal
What kind of music do you make?
Chan Siu Ming · 2024-03-04 12:52
>>67087
basically the same case like udemy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dy2kMjVVPE
>>71776
In general yes
Drivers create MLM companies; they don't join them.
the same with YouTube/Udemy/OnlyFans:
**Leverages:**
- **Other People's Time:** Instructors contribute their time to create content, allowing you to leverage their expertise.
- **Other People's Work:** Utilize user-generated content, discussions, and feedback to enhance the platform without creating all the material yourself.
- **Other People's Ad Spend:** Implement affiliate marketing programs where influencers or other platforms promote your courses in exchange for a commission.
- **Investments:** Seek external investments to accelerate platform development and marketing efforts.
- **Leverage Your Own Time:** Invest time initially to set up the system, automate processes, and then enjoy passive income as the platform grows.
Neuromancer · 2024-03-05 09:42
>>64777
Couldn't post it the first three times so now it's detected as spam. feels great.
ChatGPT rewrote it for me so it doesn't say "Flood detected".
Dependent on your local laws, but here's a concept I've come across:
>Set up a company (LLC or equivalent, keeping it small) under your name.
>Approach local businesses with outdated websites.
Typical prices for medium-sized business websites begin at $2k and up, possibly more.
>Hire a freelancer on Fiverr for $200 to create the website.
>Reap the profits.
CRUCIAL
Ensure legality within your locality (essentially, you're dropshipping a website) and understand tax implications when outsourcing to Fiverr. Many skilled individuals from India offer quality websites on Fiverr for $200 to $500, so investigate how cross-border transactions are taxed and the necessary documentation.
ADDITIONAL
Acquire basic WebDev knowledge (HTML, CSS, WordPress, WordPress editors like Elementor and WPBakery) to avoid appearing uninformed when requested to tweak details like text color from lime green to frog green or similar.
For many freelancers on Fiverr, $300 constitutes a significant sum. Thus, when you pocket $2k, consider providing a generous tip.
Thank you for your attention, and have a pleasant day.
HELIOS · 2024-03-16 10:41
>>76077
How much are you able to sell the service for?
Switch · 2024-03-16 11:10
>>76077
please don't do this many of those old but functional websites are the only glimmer of sanity in the horrible mess of uglyness, javascript, and bloat that is the modern web.
sounds like that would work though for at least a little cash
Guthrie · 2024-03-16 16:03
>>64777
1. Become famous
2. Have a donation page
3. Sell an online book
Jens Hansen · 2024-03-18 16:19
>>64777
if trips you are going to give the virtual reality stripper gig a shot.
Cowboy · 2024-03-19 07:15
>>76346
>I agree partially
ok that seems fair. I certainly have seen good/decent websites ruined for the sake of modernization, but if you do it on places like this, I can't disapprove.
>34 pages that never talk about what they do, to explain what they do
haha. maybe they're trying to be obscure;p
BloodCat · 2024-03-20 00:57
>>76348
>haha. maybe they're trying to be obscure;p
LOL maybe :D
Ishikura "Tatsu" Tatsuhiko · 2024-03-20 02:08
>>68342
>making money from pirated media?
How? This is 2024, not 2006.
Ivan Petrov · 2024-04-15 03:10
>>76077
>Acquire basic WebDev knowledge (HTML, CSS, WordPress, WordPress editors like Elementor and WPBakery) to avoid appearing uninformed when requested to tweak details like text color from lime green to frog green or similar.
Care to spoonfeed me some links to learn all this online pretty please lainon? I'd rather not choose the wrong online course.
This is all doable on an old macbook right? I lost my computer recently and I have to make do with this piece of soykaf
Hitomi · 2024-06-02 04:13
I’m not too familiar with referral links. Usually when you have a large audience say at a YT channel or TikTok account, you can rake in a lot of dough through referral links. Nevertheless, give referral links a try. Getting something is more than nothing.
Joey · 2024-06-12 15:25
>>78026
>without breaking any laws
No. Unlikely. You can potentially be arrested, charged and convicted with any of the following: fraud, blackmail, production of CP (if any minors in the database it uses to generate images and most countries that part isnt even required to get charged), charged under an obscenity law, or prostitution charges because you arent necessarily required to actually do it to be charged just offering same as how selling fake illicit recreational drugs is charged as a crime just the same. You could easily be turned in to the police by anyone concerned for the welfare of this non existent minor. You may also be accused of being a pedo yourself either for being assumed to trying to lure in kids or for production of the images themselves and have lynch mobs sent after you and they will not listen to what you have to say to try to defend yourself which is especially the case if you were put on a sex offender registry for one of those crimes or doxxed on Twitter.
Sabo Engle · 2024-06-12 15:38
You could invest in new medical technology and innovative green energy companies or just any tech you personally want to see because stocks will be cheap at first so it's not a large risk. You also can make money buying up domain names you think new companies will eventually use so you can profit selling the domain to them.
Emmanuel · 2024-06-12 16:05
>>78029
Big politicians sometimes buy up domain names with their name in it as well.
>>72412
> Idea: Find a reputable embroidery company that does wholesale custom patchs and sell patchs relating to lainchan/lain webring or the smallweb.
Likely not very profitable but a fun idea that seemed it got overlooked.
Vasya Pupkin · 2024-06-13 12:31
For me the biggest use of profiting "on" the internet is marketing and networking, I think some people even just call it "influencing". Even if you don't have a youtube channel or something, it's easy to just message some friends or people they know or make a post to sell products, because they'll listen to you better than some retarded advert that wastes their time.
I've also recently figured out what aggregating websites are, and it's interesting to me because that's also similar to how the company I work for operates.
Unidentified · 2024-06-14 10:16
If I want to work in translation, do you think working a sort of "portfolio", the way one would do with projects on github, be of benefit? Say if I translate a few papers here and there (I'm thinking, for example, the landmark Diffie Hellman paper), and present them as sort of token of experience, would that increase my chances of getting some jobs even if I don't yet have a formal cert as a translator?
Also why does freelancer dot com suck so much. Why does every site now has to be a webapp full of javascript? I fuarrrking hate this. They all take a lot to load in my conditions.
It's kind of dumb that I would need 5G to access something that used to be available on dialup.
Anamika · 2024-09-04 16:01
OP here: this post is nearly 2 years old, what the fuarrrk?
Also I have found very little ways of making money on the Internet in the meantime, and none of them are that rewarding. It pays off to have a skill you can monetize, but that's about it.
Mitnick · 2024-09-04 16:04
>>79656
make a darknet drug marketplace ni
Motoko Kusanagi · 2024-09-05 08:32
>>79656
Can you list everything you tried and what worked for you in the last 2 years ? I'm curious.
Akhil · 2024-09-19 10:41
>>65159
hmm why dont you try to build your own website and do some business like digital marketing or advertising there.
u can make your website popular and gain money at the same time.
Molly Millions · 2024-09-30 03:59
>>64777
>NFT
>German
why am i not surprised that my country is full of losers?
Mentat · 2024-09-30 06:48
I quit my WFH coding job a year ago because the boss wanted everyone to come back to the office and I was already feeling burned out. I'm still NEETing on savings and I need an income soon but I don't want to get a regular 9-5 or another WFH gig. Is there an alternative for programmers? My needs are very minimum, I just want the comfyness of a flexible schedule and not having to deal with people.
Cowboy · 2024-11-12 07:35
>>81433
>malware development
any antivirus will catch it unless you got some NSA style 0day
>sell the source code to people who use it
where and to whom
Jens Hansen · 2025-04-22 08:08
>>64777
>YouTube
Don't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvlR0O0wh40
Joe Bloggs · 2025-04-22 09:42
Could've been possible during the 2010s but now. It's gone. The AIs are too rampant.
Bob Arctor · 2025-04-22 10:49
>>71674
2019-2024. Yes, I know this might sound modest, but hey, at least it's something.
Hitomi · 2025-04-22 12:13
Show butthole on cam and make money
HELIOS · 2025-04-22 15:20
>>81435
Anti-virus are surprisingly bad at catching random homebrew that isnt in their database from personal experience messing arround without catching flags on my own system. Wouldn't do malware for money, just warning you anti-virus is fake safety. Their high catch rate is merely against known malware.
>>85669
AI's is how people make money now. You can text-to-speech with AI that sounds like a prof audio book and likewise auto-prompt images.
I think people are at the stage now where you have channels with fully auto generated content. In niches like horror /meme slop the low quality doesnt drive people away so it works out.
Neuromancer · 2025-04-22 20:53
>>65455
Western people in thailand that pay like 1k/mo for a super nice furnished condo/rental house rent it out on airbnb for $3-400 a night and just go vacation to vietnam or something while its being used
Mitnick · 2025-04-22 21:00
>>85682
there are hundreds of ai slop channels and honestly theyre not bad. I enjoy the readings of 4chan and reddit threads over screen recorded video of someone playing a mobile game while im taking a soykaf. ive thought so much about doing this, I feel like you could almost script the entire process start to finish if you were smart enough. like it could just run hands-off as if you were mining bitcoin or something
Trinity · 2025-04-23 05:16
>>64777
I started designing stickers recently. They are appealing to a specific niche of guys who like Japanese arcade games. I made stickers to promote my blog too, and I throw one in with every order. Stickers won't make me a millionaire, but I'm having fun. The prints of this design will arrive soon. It's what appears when you get the "nightmare" debuff in Tetris Kiwamemichi, the best Tetris game on the Sega Naomi.
Creasy Enward · 2025-04-23 06:34
>>81435
> any antivirus will catch it unless you got some NSA style 0day
Not at all. Most av is signature based, not behavioral. If you have source code for even well known viruses, even well known shell scripts, most times you only have to modify a few lines of code to get it to run unnoticed.
藤原純一 · 2025-04-23 07:28
>>85697
Wasn't the circles with eyes thing the result of a mistranslation or misunderstanding of the description?
Creasy Enward · 2025-04-23 08:07
>>85699
No idea, probably. Its all judaic mind virus to me. The importance of religion is utility to get masses to agree on something unifying. In most cases its to simply not murder and rape each other so better things can be built. The particulars dont really matter so long as most agree to said ideology. Its about unity of [insert cause] that creates better stuff and technology. Its the same with politics (mini or micro religions) gas the jews? Dont gas the jews?? Gas the nazis??? Idc, i want to build, just agree on something.