Operating Systems

What operating systems do you use, know and/or think are interesting?

Well, obviously there's the Linux distributions. I use ArchLabs for their custom installer and defaults, but I was always interested in Haiku and BeOS. Haiku just looks super comfy, and was nice in a vm, but hope to find something to install it on.

>>64379 NixOS is pretty cool, although I personally find it a little too heavy-handed or fussy for a workstation. Still great for server configuration though. The idea is that your host's configuration is managed from one fileset written in a functional language, rather than scattered changes in /etc. Further, "derivations" (more or less packages) are installed into /nix/store, rather than directly onto the system. Then, libraries and such are symlinks to this /nix/store directory. This makes it simple to run multiple versions of libraries at once. It's great for people with "computer OCD" that feel like re-installing their OS every few months because it feels unclean, after a few months of symlinking libraries to other libraries and so on. With NixOS there's no point because the same system will be produced. In fact, you could configure the system to rebuild itself completely on boot! https://grahamc.com/blog/erase-your-darlings Requesting "slackful" operating systems, systems governed cleanly by a small set of principles. Is Pharo worth checking out?

I use Windows 11 with a microsoft account because it's the more secure than linux

>>64379 I use PopOS as my daily driver because its a "just works" distro that manages not to be bloated with too much unnecessary software. It also sports a neat toggle to enable auto-tiling on the fly that is fantastically helpful; with a simple key combo you can alternate between a traditional floating window desktop to a fully-featured tiling desktop and vice versa. Beyond that, I have a soft spot for Bunsenlabs (pic related). !++ was my introduction to the world of Linux and I still love how it looks and how lightweight it is. Part of me wants to switch back to it, but I know PopOS is the better option given how busy I am nowadays. Maybe in the future I'll be able to install it on a secondary machine or drive.

OpenBSD on my laptop/desktop. Gentoo on my TV Box. FreeBSD on my NAS. Manjaro on my phone. OpnSense on my WiFi Router.

>>64393 >Manjaro on my phone. Pinephone I'm assuming? I was surprised how well KDE plasma works on Manjaro ARM, really is a pretty polished mobile system

I use a crux linux with the absolute minimum with wuich I can do the stuff I like. No python, dbus, no web browser. If I need a browser I can use my tablet which is compromised (with android) anyway. I also like the plan9 system quite a bit. But linux is much more convenient for me right now.

Currently I use Artix Linux, Gentoo looks nice and I am curious about OpenBSD and Plan9

>>64379 Based Haiku user. I sadly had quite the number of bugs and crashes on my laptop with it. >>64400 >no python I was recently wondering what are the distributions without python preinstalled and required. So I might want to check Crux. What do you think are the worst parts of Crux?

>>64394 Yes, PinePhone Pro. I would prefer OpenBSD on my phone. But right now that would require a lot of custom work and active development on a device I rely on for communication and connectivity when out and about. I should get a second PinePhone to be honest.

I use Alpine Linux at the moment. It's really lightweight distro that uses musl (instead of glibc), OpenRC and Busybox (but you can install the standard GNU utilities and udev, if you want to). It uses doas instead of sudo. Alpine used to use LibreSSL but they switched back to OpenSSL. Alpine has it's own homegrown package manager called apk ("Alpine Package Keeper", it's not related to Android). Alpine packages are similar to Arch Linux's PKGBUILD files (binary packages are the default but you can build software from the source, if you want to). Alpine Linux has an installer (setup-alpine script) but you can also install it by creating a base system and chrooting into it (like Arch/Gentoo). There are plans to migrate from OpenRC to S6 (but this decision is not final yet). For more info about S6: https://skarnet.org/software/s6/overview.html & https://skarnet.org/software/s6/why.html For more info, links and advanced installation walkthrough, check out this pasta: https://pst.moe/paste/xfkmfy Also, visit #alpine-linux @ OFTC if you want to talk or ask questions. Use Hexchat if you are new to IRC! >>64379 Haiku is pretty cool OS! Finally, an OS with consistent GUI! Not even Windoze has consistent GUI anymore (the control panel has win7 style GUI, and there "regular" programs and UWP programs, for example). I'm also interested in OpenBSD (they have great FAQs!) and Gentoo. It's crazy how how flexible Gentoo is. You can have a GNU/Linux distro without dbus and systemd. And you can use musl and LibreSSL! Musl is officially supported on Gentoo but for LibreSSL you need to enable the semi-official libressl overlay (use eselect-repository to enable it, Layman is deprecated). I guess you could also use Busybox's mdev or mdevd or even static /dev instead of Udev/eudev. Also, you can have GNU Emacs with Athena (libXaw) or Motif GUI! Alpine also has GNU Emacs with Athena GUI packaged (emacs-x11). Here is a little Gentoo copy-pasta that contains tips: https://pst.moe/paste/nufwpr Before Alpine, I used to use Artix. I also wrote a similar copy-paste for Arch and Artix: https://pst.moe/paste/rvgguf (if you scroll to the bottom you can view it without formatting) >>64411 >What do you think are the worst parts of Crux? Another Lainon but the package management was a lot worse/harder on Crux than on Slackware.

>>64390 >with a microsoft account But why? I don't care if you use Windows but why go the extra mile to tie your identity to a piece of software? Oh wait, Windows 11 requires an account right? Shit, I didn't know we were living in 1984

>>64411 >What do you think are the worst parts of Crux? My main issue with crux has been getting third party software. For one thing, it's a source-based distro, so you need to compile everything (though upon install you get binaries for gcc, X11, and I think even firefox is available precompiled.) In my little hackbook it's a bitch to compile large programs. The installation process requires you to compile a kernel, for example. Also the available packages are very limited, and while there are many ports uploaded by individual, you might not find many of your favorite programs, so you would need to try and port them yourself. For some software you need to apply some patches or provide some compiler options to target your setup. So it's not always convenient and it may take you some trouble depending on the software you need.

what are lain opinions on Void Linux? I recently tried and failed so hard so I had do install just werks distro Debian.

>>64423 >what are lain opinions on Void Linux? It's a great distro but its future is uncertain, sadly. - Runit is great! Void has one of the fastest boot time of all GNU/Linux distros. Runit is also easy to use as well. it's not like systemd or OpenRC aren't easy as well but still... - The package manager (https://docs.voidlinux.org/xbps/index.html) is great! It's also easy to make new packages for Void or build software from source! - The installer is pretty good! The original project leader (xtraeme) left the project twice (or trice?) and there was some drama. Also, I'm not sure if xtraeme left for good this time? I think Void Linux needs more developers/package maintainers (but the situation is not as bad as it's with SMGL Source Mage GNU/Linux, if you want to use SMGL, you need to also become a package maintainer.. Also, Void should just drop the musl variant. Alpine Linux and Gentoo have much better support for musl in my experience. Actually, even the creator of musl uses Alpine (although Gentoo also has good support for musl but you may need to use the (official) musl overlay to get some packages to work). Void team should also release new installation iso files. Void has a lot of potential but newbies shouldn't install it. Void used to be easier to install than Arch/Artix (and it used to be more stable as well!) but I think the quality of Void as a distro has dropped somewhat. If you are interested in reading about the drama with xtraeme, you can find the relevant posts at: https://voidlinux.org/news/archive.html I think xtraeme left for the first time in 2018 and then again in 2020. But note that the original .eu domain has expired and it has been hijacked by someone (not xtraeme). You may need to use archive.is/web.archive.org or something if you encounter broken links. I found these posts: >https://voidlinux.org/news/2018/05/serious-issues.html & https://www.michaelwashere.net/post/2018-11-28-enobdfl/ >https://voidlinux.org/news/2020/04/some-context.html (Also, the Void Linux IRC has moved to Libera!) If you want to try Void Linux, I recommend you download the Glibc Base Live iso (filename: "void-live-x86_64-20210930.iso" ; SHA256: 45b75651eb369484e1e63ba803a34e9fe8a13b24695d0bffaf4dfaac44783294 ) The iso is linked in https://voidlinux.org/download/#x86_64 When you install Void Linux, always choose "install from network"! Otherwise, you will get trouble (in my experience).

>>64424 thanks for explaining, I am grateful. no I don't think I will try void in future anymore void is such a meme it is like biggest meme distro. like guix or one of the distros that stallman recommends. https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html I don't want to use corp distro like fedora, I also want non-meme working systemd-less distro and I found perfect distro for that: Artix. it works well.

I use Windows 11 because it's fast and let's me play games. Linux is for businesses and developers, not regular users. I don't use encryption because Windows 11 home doesn't let me Bitlocker. I understand Microsoft's approach to restricting features to certain versions because encryption is something businesses use, not for the average consumer. In addition, I use Microsoft Edge. I don't need end-to-end encrypted bookmarks sync because I am not at a school or work.

>>64382 >>64425 i like guix. like nix except everything is in scheme. so also the init system and in spots where nix would use shell scripts. plus gnu autism but its easy to add non-free package channels.

>>64426 5/10 bait. You need to pretend that you've carefully weighed the technical merits and decided Windows is the superior operating system. Make sure you mention that it's more secure than Linux as well.

>>64424 >SMGL SMGL p nice. But it looks dead. Last release is from 2017.

>>64429 You do realize that was a joke right? Microsoft paywalling features and restricting security for certain glitterboys and telling us what we need and don't need is bullshit. We should not have to run a business or work at a school to use encryption.

>>64431 >you realize it was a joke Yes, that's why I called it bait

I think netbsd looked like an interesting operating system, want to install it on a niche non-x86 computer one day, if i can get my hands one that is.

>>64625 >NetBSD I once tried it but it wasn't as easy to use as OpenBSD. But they do have docs (which I didn't read fully). Pkgsrc looks pretty good, too. They also have some crazy features, like you can write kernel modules in Lua (https://man.netbsd.org/amd64/intro.9lua). Rump kernels are also pretty cool concept (https://man.netbsd.org/amd64/rumpkernel.7).

>>64379 I use a heavily modified CRUX install, as in I modified a lot of the core packages and don't use their ports at all. To any laptop users here, do you guys use laptops that aren't old, used ThinkPads? They don't fit my use case and I need a remote machine.

>>64637 >remote What. Sorry, I meant portable.

>>64392 >I use PopOS as my daily driver because its a "just works" distro I'm surprised it works for someone. I use to use it but now it's been too unstable for me. Too many crashes and things hanging. >>64379 I've been using Fedora for work, Mint for personal and Rocky on the cloud

Here are my thoughts on operating systems: * Artix + LARBS | Great just werks minimalistic terminal oriented metadistro * Garuda | Fearly popular comminity curated Arch based distro, has Sway edition * TROMjaro | Really great, I dont have to do much customization, but based on Manjaro Nobara | Really well optimized, can use your resources to fullest extend, but REALLY buggy Clear Linux | Corporate but optimized even better then Nobara if you have new Intel processor instantOS | Arch based metadistro uses custom versions of suckless utilities Feren | Good for beginners, polished and consistent UI MX Linux | Lightweight, also good for beginners Alpine | Most based Busybox+Linux distribution Gentoo | You can basically turn Gentoo into everythink, but you have to put a lot of work to make it function like proper desktop Void | Nice installer, great system with musl instead of glibc GhostBSD | Ready to use desktop FreeBSD based distro OpenBSD | Operating system with focus on code corectness and proactive security and being based DragonflyBSD | FreeBSD based distro with next gen filesystem HAMMER2 Haiku | Not based on anything (truly independent) operating system, nice consistent UI and efficient resource use, even has its own browser 9front | I used it on my old laptop but I still don't know what to say about it, I guess it's minimalistic Unix-like operating system that some people consider based

Currently running Artix Linux, but I'm still on the hunt for a good and cheap X230 so I can coreboot it and install QubesOS on it. On mobile I run DivestOS.

>>64645 Note to add to Haiku: Its filesystem and championing of extended attributes is amazing and is one of the best parts of the system overall. The filesystem is, in a sense, also a database-- complex queries can be made based on extended attributes' names/values/mime-types, so in many cases the need for custom filetypes or SQL usage is nixed. One good example is the Calendar program— it used to store events in SQLite, but now all events are simply empty files with extended attributes. The program queries the filesystem for files based on these attributes (e.g., for fetching events from today, it would search Event:StartDate for the time_t of today), etc. If you're writing a shell-script for dealing with these files, you don't even have to write some custom-parsing code, all you have to do is `catattr -r Event:Title $FILE`, and bam. You've got the event title. There are several other examples of the usage of extended attributes (the file-manager Tracker stores files' spatial locations on the desktop and other folders in them; the contacts program People stores data in attrs; several third-party programs rely on them), it's excellent. I really wish GNU/Linux would actually embrace attrs, and get a nice filesystem like BFS.

>>64667 Problem is, those attributes aren't transferable over the internet since they're filesystem dependent. So you can spend inordinate amounts of time tagging your files, but nobody will be able to(easily) benefit from that work

NixOs: for fuarrrk's sake, this thing is a beast. Only using it for a few months now and it literally changed how I use my pc

>>64392 >manages not to be bloated Anything with a DE is bloated. DWM or bust. >>64379 I like to use OpenBSD and FreeBSD. OpenBSD for work, FreeBSD for hobbyist activities.

>>64681 >Anything with a DE is bloated. DWM or bust. Desktop Enviorments are good for normal people and just people who cant be bothered. i used DWM for years and it requires lots of configuration to be on par with the features of a DE, not to mention the hell of patching it. >I like to use OpenBSD and FreeBSD ive never used them, how different is it from regular GNU/Linux? why do you prefer it over GNU/Linux

>>64683 > not to mention the hell of patching it. It is till you discover {dwm,st,dmenu}-flexipatch

There is also new GNU/Linux FreeBSD/Linux distribution that uses Dinit and FreeBSD userland/utils. Its called Chimera Linux https://chimera-linux.org/.

>>64423 I jumped straight into musl void as my first distro with the minimal install.. Went about as good as you could imagine and also ran away to debian lol Whilst learning how to use debian and watching videos (debian has a lot more noob friendly content which was nice) it made a lot of things just click in my head and now I'm back on void but using glibc this time mainly for appImages. Honestly I love it but again can't compare it to much, definitely boots a lot faster than debian does so theres that ig?

Anything that uses a graphical display server (X11 or Wayland) is bloat. CLI-only or go fuarrrk yourself.

I have recently found CachyOS (https://github.com/CachyOS https://cachyos.org/) and it looks like the best just works distro out there. What do you think?

>>64733 I'm not a fan of most Arch Linux derivatives (other than Arch Linux ARM or Artix Linux). I think noobs should use something like Mint. Arch already has a semi-official installer but to be honest, the wiki tells you exactly what you need to do to get Arch installed. I have lurked #archlinux IRC channel in the past and a lot of people have had trouble with Manjaro (another Arch derivative that's marketed towards new users). Also, using Arch (or Artix) as basis for a stable distro doesn't make any sense at all. You are simply not going to get new patches, if you do that. Arch and Artix by design aren't that stable and you are expected to update often (preferably daily, or at minimum multiple times a week). For more info: https://manjarno.snorlax.sh Another source of trouble were broken AUR helpers. I recommend using rua. It makes reviewing (and optionally patching) PKGBUILDs very easy (just run rua install prboom-plus and it just works). Rua also builds the packages in a jail using bubblewrap. Absolutely anyone can submit a package to the AUR and PKGBUILDs can run any command (much like shell scripts), so you must read the PKGBUILD files before you install anything from AUR (which is one of the reasons why Arch and Artix aren't good distros for new users). And if you want to read the installation guide while you are installing Arch/Artix, you can use a cell phone (or a different computer) or you can install links/lynx and add a temporary user: # pick a mirror: nano /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist pacman -Sy pacman -S links tmux irssi # if it complains about missing/outdated keys, abort with ctrl+c # And run: pacman -Sy archlinux-keyring # Arch. (Artix with Arch repos also needs these, too) pacman -Sy artix-keyring # Artix useradd -m -G users lain passwd lain # you can switch to TTY 2 by pressing ctrl+alt+F2 # or use tmux: https://cheat.sh/tmux su - lain lynx 'https://wiki.archlinux.org' And then read the wiki. You can also install weechat or irssi (https://irssi.org/New-users/) and connect to the IRC channel (either #archlinux or #artix on Libera network). tl;dr Don't use Arch if you are new to Linux. Install Linux Mint instead. If you are a power user, read installation guide and install real Arch/Artix. And if you want you can even easily practice installing arch (or any other distro) in a VM (VirtualBox).

I was recently having fun trying to guix-ize Slackware. My goal was to use guix as package manager and shepherd as init, while having Slackware which came bundled with a kernel that worked perfectly with my laptop, which is kinda new and thus picky with kernels. Well, some font installation went wrong and broke KDE, which led me to have a go again at dwm. I found myself tired of patching the stuff and defining hotkeys, taking up time that I should have been using for work (I use the same system for work, school and recreation, which is not ideal). So I abandoned my idea and settled with Manjaro KDE. It's functional, but it's no fun honestly. Recently I saw that demo of cat9/arcan and it tickled my brain, so I was about to pull the trigger when I realized that, if I commit to that, I'll just be stuck on my computer >16h hours a day trying to make it work as I want, while responsabilities start to pile up. I'll have to pick up a book instead, too much time on the computer is frying my braincells anyway.

artix linux openRC enough said

These threads always bait a flamewar between Windows users and Linux users. However, to answer OP's question; Windows 10 on the desktop Windows 11 soon on the laptop Ubuntu Server 22.04 on the web server Android (not sure what version) on the phone And I'm probably getting a crappy used desktop soon to install Windows Server on at some point.

>>64756 I dont see many (real) Windows users on lainchan, why do you use Windows instead of Linux?

>>64759 Mostly because of compatibility with my hardware; I use my desktop for mostly web development and producing music. Granted, I can develop on Linux just as easy (if not easier, actually) on a Linux system, but setting up my music production tools on Linux is impossible. Of course gaming on Windows is easier and better as well, but I actually don't don't play video games much, if even ever.

>>64741 The responsibility thing really ducked me up, literally me.

>>64733 Great as fuarrrk, got interested

>>64765 Glad to heard that, I use it right now on my main machine and will recommend to my friends that like their system to be optimized.

>>64765 I have tried all of their Window Manager options and they are not nearly as polished as the KDE version is. But i3 and OpenBox work great enough.

>>64768 >1100 packages installed on muh "minimal" os >500 browser plugins >some garbage desktop >tiny screen made even tinier by being wide >muh DLSS the absolute state

>>64773 Minimalism isn't lack of something, and also I was using LARBS and I had a lot of packages that I dont need because they ware installed as for eg. GTK/QT dependencies Actually only 3 and I install them in every browser Yep you are the kind of person that makes arguments based on subjective thing/personal preference Are you now trying to insult my hardware or something I have AMD graphic card, you are delusional

>>64773 this. if you want Arch/Artix with KDE, then just install Arch/Artix and run pacman -S plasma-meta xorg-server xf86-input-libinput xf86-video-vesa xorg-xwayland plasma-wayland-session lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter pulseaudio pulseaudio-alsa && pacman -S konsole dolphin kmix ark and enable lightdm service. it's all documented on ArchWiki.

>>64783 But this distro is much more than Arch with KDE... Instead of saying "muh install clean arch" you could read the documenation of CachyOS and learn how MANY system optimizations they do.

>>64679 They're not _too_ filesystem-dependent— pretty much any FS in use nowadays supports them in one form or another. While BFS's is more powerful than most, you can convert at least hypothetically BFS xattrs to ones suitable for LiGNUx. Archiving programs (`tar`, `zip`, etc) preserve xattrs, so it's only a matter of mapping Haiku's attrs (key, datatype, data) to Linux'es (key, data). How to go about that, I'm not sure.

>>64424 > Void should just drop the musl variant. Alpine Linux and Gentoo have much better support for musl in my experience. Huh? I've been running musl Void for like 1.5 years on multiple machines and I've never ran into any musl issues.

>>64796 If you are after optimizations, just install Gentoo. No other distro can be optimized more. Everything can be tailored for you and Gentoo has a long history. >https://pst.moe/paste/nufwpr >>64807 Perhaps things have improved. When I ran the musl version of Void, I had Firefox segfaulting and graphical glitches in XDM and my terminal emulator.

I simply use windows. Tried arch and void before but it breaks down often and really inconvenient to use compared to windows. still love me turminals tho. wish linux could be as stable as windows.

>>64810 I dont have good processor to compile most of my programs.

>>64874 You could install Debian stable or something.

I use Windows and make use of Debian through wsl. I think any Linux distro is inappropriate for graphical tasks. On that front, it's a clusterf*ck, ugly mess without so much as a universal font api. Besides that though, for any headless box, I would go with Debian. It's old, it's entrenched, everything supports it, it's free of corporate specific bs(unlike Ubuntu), and it's probably going to be around for as long as Linux is. Debian just is. Every other distro is either tailored for something specific, a borderline scam, or meme bullshit for tinkering, neo larpers.

>>64379 got a mac two weeks ago and its surprisingly good my intention was to install asahi but its really nice to have a computer that just works the mail client is unironically the best i've used and beats thunderbird by a longshot, and the other built-in stuff is good aswell can always run stuff in docker or vm if you have something linux dependent, but i yet havent hit any blockers i used to be on arch but holy fuarrrk im not touching that again as a day to day machine, my setup was scuffed even after two years im happy i spent time on linux though as it got me comfortable in the commandline and general knowledge about how OSs work if you have the money then it's worth it, at least to try, hw is good too also when i watch movies or scroll in my browser, it doesn't tear every fuarrrking time

>>65747 Don't forget to install pkgsrc or macports (portage prefix is still experiment for aarch64 and homebrew is for users).

Currently I use Salix OS. Used to use Manjaro some time back but ended up switching. Salix has been pretty nice in the short time I've been. Thinking about switching to Debian at some point, possibly once I decide to finally cave and use a desktop.

I'm currently using Void Linux (musl) on my laptop and Arch Linux on my desktop. Both distros are very comfy and just werk after you install it. They don't also get on your way. >>65831 You didn't provide any reasons/arguments. But I will tell you why both Manjaro and Fedora is like kicking dead whales down the beach. Manjaro >https://manjarno.snorlax.sh >https://itsfoss.com/libreoffice-freeoffice-manjaro-linux/ Also. Manjaro is supposed to be beginner distro but it allows you to use AUR (seamlessly, which makes it even worse). To use AUR, you need to know Bash because absolutely anyone can submit or (silently) adopt a package (and a package is just a shell script that can execute any commands). Fedora At least it's better than Manjaro. But: >Uses GNOME 3 by default (it's bloated and non-intuitive). Just install Xfce or MATE or (better) a WM (examples: IceWM, Sway, Awesome or bspwm). Also, GNOME 3 requires using Gnome Tweak Tool to access some of the settings (that should have been available in the regular GNOME settings). >You still need to enable the 3rd-party RPMfusion repo. >https://news.itsfoss.com/fedora-drops-vaapi-codec/ >I prefer rolling-release distros (and Fedora Rawhide is too unstable while Arch and Void just works. Believe me, I have tried it.). >Fedora Silverblue/Fedora Kinoite are overengineered and beta quality What should you use instead? After almost 10 years of using various Linux distros, I can recommend these: >Arch Linux, one of the best distros despite not being minimal. It's convenient distro for a power user. muh xorg broke again hasn't been true for years. >Artix Linux, it's Arch but without SystemD (instead you can choose from: OpenRC, RunIt, S6 and Dinit). It also has (optional) support for Arch repos and AUR. >Void Linux, has both glibc and musl variants. It boots really fast (thanks to Runit). >Gentoo, supports both glibc/musl and OpenRC/SystemD. Portage package manager makes it easy to apply custom patches, use custom CFLAGS and you can easy enable/disable build options by using USE flags. >Debian, it's the best server OS. But you can use Debian testing on your desktop PC/Laptop: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ >Devuan, it's Debian but without SystemD. >NixOS and Guix System, if you want that kind of package management. >Linux Mint and Xubuntu, these 2 distros are the best distros for beginners.

ChromeOS GNU/Linux on my laptop Android GNU/Linux on my phone

>>65907 Android doesn't use anything from GNU even if uname says otherwise.

Why does kde eat soykaf on my system. I love xfce but I want the customization of kde. What do.

>>65910 LXQT perhaps? If you don't mind customization via text files you could also go with fvwm but that's not as snazzy as kwin out of the box.

>>65911 I really do not mind customizing with text files, as long as it's easy to understand what to put in the text files, y'know. I will look into it.

>>65910 >Why does kde eat soykaf on my system What's your distro? KDE worked pretty well on Debian testing when I tried it (and I'm pretty sure that Kubuntu also just works). >>65911 >LXQT perhaps? I used it for a while. It's not as polished as KDE or Xfce4. In my honest opinion, LXQT is better than LXDE but the only reason to use LXQT is if you prefer to have a DE that uses QT and you don't want to use KDE. >fvwm That's a great choice for someone who wants to rice their wm! There are other WMs like Awesome that are very customizable.

Qubes OS as a daily driver. Pretty slow but satisfies my needs well as I do everything on a single laptop. This is not for gaymers though.

>>65924 >LXQT is better than LXDE I can't imagine how, since it now violates one of the core ideas behind LXDE which was to be lightweight. All the really important functional things that LXDE can do are handled by Openbox and PCManFM, which are shared among both variants.

Been using Fedora for years now, and am extremely happy with it.

I love NixOS and will probably return to it in the future. Currently using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed as my daily drive.

>>65927 The problem with LXDE is that its development has slowed down.

>>65924 I was trying to see if Arch worked fine on my system, it did work great, for the first few minutes! I was putting my backup back on the machine, and then it froze. Then it froze again. And again. I eventually downloaded XFCE from chroot and that option worked great, however it just made me realize xubuntu worked fine enough that I didn't have to switch. I had Manjaro with KDE on my system first (as in my first distro) and it would do this thing where it randomly crashed programs and wouldn't do anything until I opened a terminal and manually rebooted it. I thought it was just Manjaro being Manjaro (not wrong), however due to my experience with Arch/KDE I think it's just KDE not liking Pentium Gold. I believe someone is buying me a nice Thinkpad x1 carbon, and I'll try Kubuntu on that to see if it runs KDE any better, if not I will keep Xubuntu (or even put windows on it, since it will have a bigger SSD and the only thing keeping me from installing windows on this machine is space). Either way this old HP is going to go towards linux exploration eventually, it's falling apart.

Everything that doesn't include nvidia >Debian Everything that does include nvidia >Fedora While on small laptops I pref XFCE because it's handy. I have been only using Fedora's Workstation - and let me tell you the 37th has got quite a few bugs. I demand vanilla experience from whatever DE I use right after the independence of selected distribution (ik Fedora being a RHEL's slut yikes). I have been playing with the idea of using Mint but fuarrrk Ubuntu and the installer on 21.1 Vera seems to be a broken spinoff of Xubuntu - it crashed whenever I tried to encrypt the disk during the installation.

OpenBSD all the way. Hopefully it will be out on the pinephone eventually but until then pmOS and Maemo for the phone.

>>66203 I will not be happy until I have a full open source car, phone, and computer with open source CPU firmware

>>66211 Even with the pinephone being so good to us, people still complained about it being slow and old tech. The stuff that is truly free is so old that people wouldnt even entertain it. A company like Pine64 wants to give people good tech but they still have to please a bunch of new linux-convert retards who font understand that freedom and comfort are like oil and water.

>laptop - chrome os flex (or chromium os idk) >windows 10 >smartphone - calyx os I'd like to try installing arch linux one day (when I learn how to install it xd)

zephyr genode risc os plan9 cp/m haiku amiga guixsd reactos dragonfly bsd NeWS ix (xanadu) more if i wrack my brain

For me, I'm interested in FreeBSD or other BSD-like derivatives, such as NetBSD or OpenBSD. I know more about them now than I did when I first discovered them, but I would still like to know more. The FreeBSD's official website is quite extensive in its documentation of the system and that wells of computer knowledge like that attracts me, even if I don't know all the definitions of the terminology used.

I use Debian. It is like a swiss army knife with strong fundamentals in both privacy and security. It is a community driven project that has been around since the GNU/Linux itself. The rest of the OSes are either retarded spin offs or hardened bloatware or a total mess (hello Arch). With the exception of Alpine Linux. Besides the GNU/Linux I am interested in BSD OSes mainly FreeBSD and OpenBSD.

>>66494 >crux >a total mess smdhfam

>>66494 Well, I don't think there are any other *BSDs worth the shot.

Currently using Void and really liking it so far. Fairly easy to set up, no problems that can't be solved with a quick search and the boot speeds are very fast compared to my old distro (Fedora). I am interested in Debian but want to know how it compares to Deuvan. Is it much different in terms of support and stability? Is there really any difference between the two besides the lack of systemd?

>>66498 I would personally still use Debian stable on a server but for a laptop/desktop Devuan is as good as Debian. Devuan installation iso also contains non-free firmware that's often needed for wifi (and other things). Debian also has so-called ""unofficial"" installations iso files that also contain the non-free firmware: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ The main difference between Debian and Devuan is the choice of init system. But if you like Void, I think there isn't much point in installing Debian or Devuan, unless you are running it on a server.

>>66507 Thanks for the reply. I'll probably stick with void for the time being if only because I don't care to reconfigure everything so soon. Glad to know devuan is a good choice to switch to. The uncertain future of void as discussed earlier in the thread is really the only thing that might make me switch, aside from the lack of packages on xbps, although i haven't run into too much trouble with that.

>>64379 i want to use haiku as my main os but still lacks some software/drivers

I use slackware and feel very at home despite only using it for a couple years. I used arch and arch-derivatives for like 8 years and was frustrated almost the entire time. I am curious about the BSD's but am not sure if I'll ever get around to learning the BSD way of doing things. I'm also curious about guix but it has some rough edges

>>66599 What do you like about slackware? I've heard a lot about it but mostly that is has a lot of cred for being around a long time and that it's package manager operates differently from most other linux distros. I've heard good things about derivatives like Salix. Overall it seems to be one of those distros certain people click with.

i've seen a lot of systemd-less distros lately, can someone explain to me what's the issue with SystemD? I actually never used something else besides it so i don't really get the difference

Lately I have been playing with an idea of ditching american's le Fedora and going with something that was produced in more sane continent (le Europe). Since Debian has problems with my optimus laptop and tends to overheat no matter what drivers/tools I install I had to abandon community distro in favour of usable working experience. So I went with Fedora. Yet with Fedora I feel like something is deliberatatly wrong with this OS or maybe it's the GNOME all together. Anyway I tried Mint and xfce which is DE of my choice but that whole project is even more retarded, while I dig the idea of ditching snaps from ubuntu why the fuarrrk they even started as spin off of ubuntu. So Mint very sceptic doesn't feel right. Now there is this another candidate to cure my autism and that's OpenSUSE. This one I haven't installed on metal yet, only tried it through VM. I heard it's similar to Fedora, both use rpm, Suse uses btrfs during install and has sexy look in the color of green. Do you have any personal experience with SuSe? What OS would you recommend me to use on laptop with Optimus Nvidia graphics? My inner lain has strong beliefs towards the privacy/security concerns as well as despise for using corposhit. Thanks in advance.

>>66603 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNUGjFzenq4

>>66603 SystemD gets the job done. but it also represents this big monolyth of tools and services that goes beyond "just an init system" the alternatives are mostly aiming to a more "traditional" approach where the init system just does what an init system is supposed to do. in the end use whatever the heck you want, as soon as you're comfortable with how it works

>>66603 It's basically an attempt by ~~Red Hat~~ IBM to take over the Linux ecosystem by aggressively making other programs depend on it. In addition, expanding the responsibilities of an init far beyond its original scope it is antithetical to the philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well and a security liability. People have become extra suspicious of systemd now that its original author (Lennart Poettering) officially works for Microsoft.

>>66603 >what's the issue with SystemD? Pottering is not a nice developer and he belittles the reports of real issues and bugs in Systemd (e.g. https://pwnies.com/systemd-bugs/). Systemd is huge codebase and you don't need to it just get a system running and daemons started. Systemd (by design) comes with a ton of stuff bundled* and you can't just take 1 component and use it without Systemd. The real implication of this is that Systemd is harder to replace than something like OpenRC or Runit or sysVinit (what Systemd was created to replace) or anything else. Also, related: there has been some concern that Systemd is (or might be) also getting added as a dependency to some programs (meaning they won't run without patching it out and that the programs are locked into GNU/Linux for no real reason). *[like a bootloader, soykafty logging daemon called "journalctl" (it does binary logs by default and you can't properly filter what you log with it), OOM-killer daemon (just use earlyoom) and some daemon that manages /home dirs (wtf?). Systemd also does acpi (you should just use acpid) and it has a su/sudo replacement "machinectl shell". And why did Systemd reinvent the wheel with Systemd timers? Cron already exist and everyone has learned to use it.] Good distros that do not have Systemd include: Void Linux, Artix, Gentoo, Guix System and *BSD operating systems. And finally, the only reason why Systemd is fast, is the fact that it starts things in parallel (even Pottering himself said this). You can enable this option in OpenRC config and RunIt does this by default (actually, RunIt is even faster than Systemd). Also, almost always the Systemd people will list arguments that only apply against sysVinit (and they pretend that Upstart and sysVinit were the only alternatives to Systemd). Some links, if you want to read more: >https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Arguments_against_systemd/ >Sückless page on Systemd. >https://ewontfix.com/14/ (Broken by design: systemd, form the author of Musl libc) >https://ewontfix.com/15/ (Systemd has 6 service startup notification types, and they're all wrong) >https://nosystemd.org >https://the-world-after-systemd.ungleich.ch >https://ihatesystemd.com >https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems >https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-azure-outage-knocks-ubuntu-vms-offline-after-buggy-update/ (using systemd can cost you money) >>66605 >What OS would you recommend me to use on laptop with Optimus Nvidia graphics? Arch Linux or Artix Linux, and look up the relevant page from ArchWiki.

>>66605 >Lately I have been playing with an idea of ditching american's le Fedora and going with something that was produced in more sane continent (le Europe). its diminishing gains. the only real leap would be to switch to hapa technology

>>64379 Gentoo on the main pc. Debian on my laptop. I used for almost two months 9front on my main pc, was difficult at first, but now the are things I miss, like the rio wm, the plumbing thing, acme, the sam editor and the structural regular expressions, Also it was fun to read the source code.

>>66211 >open source CPU firmware >The ME firmware is compressed and consists of modules that are listed in the manifest along with secure cryptographic hashes of their contents. One module is the operating system kernel, which is based on a proprietary real-time operating system (RTOS) kernel called “ThreadX”. The developer, Express Logic, sells licenses and source code for ThreadX. Customers such as Intel are forbidden from disclosing or sublicensing the ThreadX source code. Another module is the Dynamic Application Loader (DAL), which consists of a Java virtual machine and set of preinstalled Java classes for cryptography, secure storage, etc. The DAL module can load and execute additional ME modules from the PC’s HDD or SSD. The ME firmware also includes a number of native application modules within its flash memory space, including Intel Active Management Technology (AMT), an implementation of a Trusted Platform Module (TPM), Intel Boot Guard, and audio and video DRM systems. >Due to the signature verification, developing free replacement firmware for the ME is basically impossible. The only entity capable of replacing the ME firmware is Intel. As previously stated, the ME firmware includes proprietary code licensed from third parties, so Intel couldn’t release the source code even if they wanted to. And even if they developed completely new ME firmware without third-party proprietary code and released its source code, the ME’s boot ROM would reject any modified firmware that isn’t signed by Intel. Thus, the ME firmware is both hopelessly proprietary and “tivoized”. hopefully one day we'll have the "year of the RISC-V desktop, but until then ...

>>64379 I'm just using Mint right now. I honestly don't do all that much with my system, it just works for me. I've considered Arch but I don't feel like dealing with any potential issues that come form updates I would have to roll back or report.

>>66368 It's not too bad once you get the hang of it, but I definitely recommend doing it in a vm first. I have a git repo that's just a README with notes about what I would want to install or configure so I don't have to scroll through the whole wiki to find some specific instruction, would recommend you do the same as you learn - take notes of any step that you need a bit more handholding through such as installing the bootloader or something. GL :)

>>64379 I am using windows xp still

>>64393 Living the dream. How is OpenBSD for desktop? I heard it comes with a few compatibility issues.

>>64379 I really want to see z/OS someday, but it's proprietary and only on z/Architecture. I don't have any real reason other than I love IBM, they are such a historical company in computing

>>68309 What changes peoples' preferences between an OS on desktop vs laptop? I assume Gentoo is usually a desktop choice due to compilations; I have considered OpenBSD on one and GNU/Linux on the other, probably Linux on desktop so that I can use the processing power for more "compatible" applications or even games

>>68769 depends on your usage anon. If you'll be making use of the desktop GPU then of course go with something that supports that hardware for acceleration. maybe you also want to use one OS for everything, to keep things simple, learn once use everywhere.

>>68769 >What changes peoples' preferences between an OS on desktop vs laptop? Most distros are as good on laptop and desktop (I used to run Debian testing on all my computers). Source-based distros, like Gentoo, do not work well on low-end HW (because having to build everything from source is a double-edged sword). Personally, I use the musl version of Void Linux on my (low-end) laptop. It saves some memory (never benchmarked it, tho) and everything I need works without issues. I could have used Alpine Linux but I assume that the difference between Void Linux (musl) and Alpine Linux (musl) is not that big. >>68343 >How is OpenBSD for desktop? It's pretty good, actually! I think it's better than NetBSD or even FreeBSD. The biggest problem that you might encounter is partitioning: *BSD use their own partition style where slices (aka MBR partitions) are broken up into "partitions" (they are similar to MBR logical partitions). Also, the fdisk utility is completely different than fdsik on GNU/Linux. The easiest way to do partition is to nuke everything and use the automatic partitioning option (read the installation guide and https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html). P.S. if you want to dual-boot Linux and *BSD, you probably want to use Grub and chainload the bootloader (like this -> https://www.kariliq.nl/openbsd/grub2.html for example). >I heard it comes with a few compatibility issues. ThinkPads just work, and most other things just work. Only the newest HW has compatibility problems. Even AMDGPU driver has been added (but I would assume that Nvidia GPUs don't work). Intel integrated graphics just works. If OpenBSD doesn't work, you can try FreeBSD if you want to use *BSD OS.

Memes aside, Debian has issues but as others have pointed out it functionally IS the Gnu/Linux operating system we know. Not entirely, but at least in spirit.

>>68784 >chadman uses systemd Don't abuse the chadman meme. You're better than that.

I primarily use macOS Ventura for everything. I have an OSX Server running. And a black box Windows11 PC for video games that don't run in anything else

>>68789 >>chadman uses systemd chad uses gentoo

>>68789 >chadman uses systemd don't abuse the systemd meme. you're better than that.

>>64424 I love void. Moved from Artix to Void, a year ago. I utterly love it.

I use windows 10 on my main puter and arch on my thinkpad I have ~1 year experience with using linux and learning about how it works but I don't want to use it on my main machine yet.

>>64379 i use windows 10 iot enterprise ltsc 21h2 BTW for real though, ltsc versions of windows 10 is what keeps me using windows. windows 10 is really comfy when it's not automatically reinstalling candy crush for the 2nd time. idk why it keeps telling me that my posts are floods. am i just posting too much?

I have Windows 10 on my PC and Ubuntu on my laptop. I'm moving into an RV soon, so I will only be able to use my laptop.

I run Gentoo on a ThinkPad T430 with a quad-core CPU pulled from an Alienware and a 2560x1440 screen I installed. Binary packages are built by an automated process on a private server that has 20 cpu cores and liquid cooling for sustained turbo frequencies on all cores. To keep the IP address of the server's site private, a VPN provider hosts a static IP and forwards a UDP port so I can reach the server with Wiregurad. I almost never compile source code on my ThinkPad. I am disappointed by the posts on this thread that say source based distros are not an optimal fit for machines that have a modest cpu. When I lurked various boards in the late 2000s it was clear many knew to use distcc and the collective knowledge was to use distcc. From what I am seeing here I am concerned that the current new generation is not going to make it.

>>70760 Same poster here. I should also add that I don't do distcc to compile packages when I am on the other side of the continent. Binary packages are built by my server and they are downloaded by a background process that listens on a publish/subscribe channel.

I mainly use Windows 10 on my tower, and Fedora on my various laptops. Started using Fedora cause it was an OS that my dad introduced to me, haven't had any issues with it so far. I'm open to trying other ones, especially since windows 10 is set to hit EoL by 2025, and I don't want to use Windows 11 outside of any employment context.

>>70760 >Gentoo Gentoo is usable on any PC with modern quad-core or better CPU. I used to run it on a PC with Intel Core i5-3350P and it was perfectly usable. Ryzen CPUs would be even better.

>>70771 You can still use gentoo on slow hardware without a 20 core build server (it is a 25 year old distro). You just have to be prepared to leave your builds running overnight. But with grsecurity going private and most of the hardened gcc patches getting upstreamed there is not a lot of point to gentoo anymore though.

>> 70760 Same. My packages are built by three boxes set up with distcc for MAKEOPTS="-j80". I have also started doing builds continuously for Mullvad on OpenBSD. >> 70771 > Gentoo is usable on any PC with modern quad-core or better CPU. My laptop has six CPUs but compiling locally but the speed would not work for me. >> 70772 > You just have to be prepared to leave your builds running overnight. > overnight > overnight > overnight This would never work for me. Computers are an important part of my life but they are just one part of my life. > But with grsecurity going private and most of the hardened gcc patches getting upstreamed there is not a lot of point to gentoo anymore though. Since they went private I have been paying for these patches through corporate arrangements. I know this is not sustainable especially when I want to set up computers for others, and I am only comfortable setting up computers for others that meet my own standards. HardenedBSD seems to have covered the same areas as grsecurity and PaX, and has enough OS functionality coverage that it seems viable but I am not certain yet. I have started continuously building HardenedBSD as well. For those of us who work in industry, we have had to seriously consider Qubes as inefficient as it feels compared to OS virtualization (BSD Jails etc). Hopefully HardenedBSD or even a revitalized illumos can be built on. When I am in an airport of a foreign country which I often am (it feels like I live in airports sometimes) and a security patch is released for a browser variant or Linux itself, I really want to have that asap. Emerging chromium or even just a minor update of the Linux kernel while sitting in an airport sounds like hell. Downloading binaries (built on my own silicon, more trustworthy) over the internet makes a lot more sense for me. In 2020 we didn't really have Burning Man officially but people still went out there, "renegade". Have you ever been around people and realized that they aren't your genuine friends and they don't have your back? And you pretend you're oblivious to it to see how insincere they really are? There were a handful of people I didn't tell I was going to the 2020 renegade, and there were some people with some great energy out there. I was coming down on acid still kind of tripping and when I opened my laptop (lid switch inhibited for the win) I had already received signed binary packages from my build cluster. Knowing I had a handful of machines distributed across 1/3rd the face of the planet, some kind of big some very small, that were being reliable in serving was nice. Having a Matrix Synapse node run in a local container for local sync for a better experience in a remote environment and seeing messages from other Gentoo minded users in the world, and Gentoo minded users right on the playa, was great. Raver stealth sys admin vibes. Feels good man.

>>70778 >Hopefully HardenedBSD or even a revitalized illumos can be built on. The problem with hardenedbsd is that it's built on freebsd and freebsd is kind of a joke. Remember when their RNG broke and nobody noticed for 4 months. https://lwn.net/Articles/633805/ Or remember when they had an exploitable buffer overflow in fuarrrking ping. https://securityonline.info/cve-2022-23093-remote-code-execution-in-freebsd-ping8/

>>70780 > Remember when their RNG broke and nobody noticed for 4 months. I was not aware of this issue, thank you for posting this along with the link to the LWN article. The "their" part is kind of the distinction. HardenedBSD is run by different people. OpenBSD was a fork of NetBSD by Theo and under his leadership OpenBSD is a radically different system than NetBSD. > Or remember when they had an exploitable buffer overflow in fuarrrking ping. Hopefully the hardening features of HardenedBSD mitigated that vulnerability. However anything like ping really should be written in Rust, GoLang, or Austral (preferably Austral). https://hardenedbsd.org/content/easy-feature-comparison illumos with modern LLVM toolchain and options on a CPU that supports hardware control flow integrity is probably ideal.

>>70778 > was coming down on acid still kind of tripping and when I opened my laptop (lid switch inhibited for the win) I had already received signed binary packages from my build cluster. It is kind of funny how much LSD and the og Unix mindset / vibe correlate so strongly. I met a good handful of dudes that are on this vibe when at UC Santa Cruz or when at large music things in San Francisco.

>>64759 I use Windows purely for work, but I use macOS for personal use and I'm want to pivot to Linux. Is Linux mint a better option or ElementaryOS a better option for someone coming from macOS

>>70800 >The "their" part is kind of the distinction. HardenedBSD is run by different people. Hardenedbsd is not a fork it's just a set of patches ontop of freebsd (the way grsecurity was to linux). >However anything like ping really should be written in <current meme language> Go on then. Nobody is stopping you kiddo.

>>70806 > Hardenedbsd is not a fork it's just a set of patches Said patches have fundamental impacts to the compiler toolchain and operating system. Configurations are different too. HardenedBSD maintains its own releases and configuration for packages. HardenedBSD is definitively a fork. > current meme language Each of the three languages mentioned by >>70800 have assurances against the kind of vulnerability that was found in FreeBSD's ping, irrespective of developer proficiency with the language. Rust is used in industry by cloud providers and is in the more recent releases of Android. Rust is definitively not a meme language. Austral is "Rust, but just the good parts", which is better for everyone. >>70806 is a very low IQ post, >>70805 is unironically better cultured and higher IQ

>>70823 >Said patches have fundamental impacts to the compiler toolchain and operating system If FreeBSD's random number generator is broken then HardenedBSD's random number generator is broken. This implication that they are separate projects with different people therefor you don't need to worry about the quality of FreeBSD is incorrect. >HardenedBSD is definitively a fork. Open is a fork of Net. Dragonfly is a fork of Free. Forks take the code from a specific point in time and then go off in their own direction. Hardened is not a fork because it is just a set of changes applied to whatever the latest FreeBSD release is. If you really want to label it then it's more like a distro (the way Ubuntu is based on Debian for example). > >>70806 is a very low IQ post, Just because he hurt your feelings doesn't mean he's wrong.

>>70824 > Forks take the code from a specific point in time and then go off in their own direction. So in your in words, HardenedBSD is indeed a fork. You're not failing to be blatant that you have no integrity. The HardenedBSD project provides full clarity that they are working on a fork of the codebase https://hardenedbsd.org/content/about > If FreeBSD's random number generator is broken then HardenedBSD's random number generator is broken. HardenedBSD's random number generator is not at this time broken, and whether it was broken at any time ever is in doubt. If you can post a link to a source code snapshot then do so, if not you don't have anything to contribute here and you should go back to reddit. > Just because he hurt your feelings doesn't mean he's wrong. Gamma (lower than beta) male tier post. Tell us you're low status without telling us you're low status.

>>64401 Artix is great. I expected a lot of issues when i installed it but it's been very stable for a year now, even compared to Debian. >>64659 If you're still there, what do you think of divestos? I've been using LineageOS without google soykaf forever and I'd like to try something different. By the way, the X230 is a really great machine, in fact I'm typing on one right now.

>>70846 >Gamma (lower than beta) male tier post. Tell us you're low status without telling us you're low status. Not part of the conversation, but literally KYS.

>>70846 >HardenedBSD's random number generator is not at this time broken, and whether it was broken at any time ever is in doubt. If you can post a link to a source code snapshot then do so Broken RNG on FreeBSD - https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=278907 Broken RNG on HardenedBSD - https://github.com/HardenedBSD/hardenedBSD/commit/90229b36302992f0f8aad15d910a0510ada82596 HardenedBSD pulls everything from FreeBSD so when FreeBSD does dumb soykaf it ends up in HardenedBSD a week later. >The problem with hardenedbsd is that it's built on freebsd and freebsd is kind of a joke. >Gamma (lower than beta) male tier post. Tell us you're low status without telling us you're low status. If the goal is to defend this project you like then you are only doing more damage with this immature crap you're pulling.

>>70852 bitter gamma detected, lol

>>70854 The FreeBSD rng problem was over eight years ago. Historically interesting, but not relevant today. https://hardenedbsd.org/content/about > Founded in 2014 by Oliver Pinter and Shawn Webb, HardenedBSD is a security-enhanced fork of FreeBSD. If you want to argue that HardenedBSD is a "distro of" and not a fork, take it up with the HardenedBSD project. Until then you are objectively wrong. You posted something objectively low IQ and got called out for it. Then you posted "hurr durr your feelings are hurt", so you obviously didn't have an argument. Pathetic.

>>70857 >The FreeBSD rng problem was over eight years ago. Historically interesting, but not relevant today. All FreeBSD bugs are HardenedBSD bugs. And FreeBSD has a lot of bugs.

>>70859 >All FreeBSD bugs are HardenedBSD bugs. And FreeBSD has a lot of bugs. Only the code that HardenedBSD pulls in. The vulnerabilities that exist due to memory corruption bugs are not exploitable in practice, they are the only bugs that really matter, with few exceptions. From a code purity perspective, no one disagrees with you. Most teams deploying HardenedBSD would rather deploy OpenBSD, but OpenBSD doesn't have Jails and ZFS.

>>70861 >Only the code that HardenedBSD pulls in Which is everything because it's not an actual fork they need to stay up to date with upstream or the project will just be an out of date FreeBSD release with some security changes. >The vulnerabilities that exist due to memory corruption bugs are not exploitable in practice Slow down with the kool-aid. Bugs might be harder to exploit but you're not invincible just because you have ASLR and W^X and whatever. >Most teams deploying HardenedBSD would rather deploy OpenBSD, but OpenBSD doesn't have Jails and ZFS. The OpenBSD policy for 20 years was that all attacks are external and you trust all the code you run not to do anything bad so sandboxing is a waste of time. They only started walking that back recently with pledge and veil. And I'm guessing vmm is still not ready for production. I've stopped checking.

>>70865 > just because you have ASLR and W^X and whatever. This is an obvious mischaracterization. Parallel to grsecurity, HardenedBSD offers so much more than this. Demonstrating ignorance like this yet also talking like you know what you're talking about, you're just talking out of your ass.

>>70871 Your exploit mitigations don't make you immune to exploits.

>>70859 >>70872 It's interesting you make your posts super focused and concise so he can't chop something out of context and go off on a tangent and weasel out of the actual discussion. This is how you deal with bad faith posters.

>>70872 > Your exploit mitigations don't make you immune to exploits. Much like grsecurity completely mitigated the somewhat recent memory corruption vulnerabilities in Linux's NetFilter, the hardening provided by HardenedBSD do the same, they completely mitigate remote code execution in real-world environments. The very best you'll ever be able to get is denial of service, which you won't most of the time. > just because you have ASLR and W^X and whatever. Is where you demonstrated in your own writing that you did not understand the above. >>70882 Obvious samefagging. I'll spell it out for you in a way you yourself can't weasel out of. 1.] you are objective wrong, as demonstrated in your own writing 2.] memory corruption vulnerabilities are completely mitigated by HardenedBSD and grsecurity featuresets in real-world environments 3.] as mentioned in a previous comment, you are low iq, you are high enough iq that you can post something moderately cohesive, so you are midwit level, we can give you that

> super focused and concise > because you have ASLR and W^X and whatever. pick one, you can't have both. And, since you have demonstrated to us what a midwit you are, inb4 "but packages can still be vulnerable to DoS", the discussion is about HardenedBSD specifically, not the third party packages.

>>70925 >1.] personal attack >2.] you think exploit mitigations will magically protect you from any and all vulnerabilities inherited from upstream I disagree. I can see from how upset you're getting this is more of a religious issue than a rational one. >3.] personal attack

>>70945 No one is "upset" about the low iq demonstrated by your posts. The real-world facts aren't aligned with your claims. You lost literally every argument you presented. Just take the L, dummy.

>>70945 One of my friends from high school recommended this board to me and we have always viewed it as a higher quality board. Seeing someone post blatantly wrong information then resort to "i made u upset lol" is pretty Reddit tier desu and honestly does bother me a little bit (ie it does make me genuinely kind of upset) to see this board soykaffed up like this. Please don't post here anymore. >>70925 I have FreeBSD on one of my laptops. I didn't know HardenedBSD does what grsecurity does. I had Gentoo Hardened before grsec made the patches private. I'm gonna try HardenedBSD now. Thank you.

>>70947 Do you think that if you call someone "low iq" enough times then what they said stops being true? >The real-world facts aren't aligned with your claims. I already showed you a real world security vulnerability in HardenedBSD that your exploit mitigations didn't, and could never, save you from. >>70854 And this bug was a direct result of being based on FreeBSD, a project with a sketchy security record. Just stop freaking out and accept the criticism. Your favorite OS is not perfect, nothing is.

>>70950 >Do you think that if you call someone "low iq" enough times then what they said stops being true? You *are* low iq for talking out of your ass like you did. No one claimed that the RNG bug was not true. However the RNG bug is simply not relevant anymore. >Just stop freaking out The use of such rhetoric is only used by people who know they are losing an argument, they are pathetic and don't work on technology imageboards. >and accept the criticism. You haven't posted a valid criticism. >Your favorite OS More soykafty rhetorical devices. HardenedBSD is not my favorite OS, not by far. >is not perfect, nothing is. No one said HardenedBSD is perfect. The only real claim made about HardenedBSD is that memory corruption vulnerabilities are fully mitigated, which is "technically" not true but only in a lab environment. In a real-world environment exploits don't go anywhere. As someone who is hands-on with metasploit I do actually know this. Kill Your Self

>>70950 >hurr durr ur upset This is like calling someone a "transphobe". No phobia exists, only a vague sense of annoyance as an undercurrent to revulsion.

HardenedBSD is a fork of FreeBSD, says so right there on the HardenedBSD website. Anyone who says otherwise is a dumb nigger. /thread

>>70954 >You *are* low iq for talking out of your ass like you did. No one claimed that the RNG bug was not true. This you? >>70846 >HardenedBSD's random number generator is not at this time broken, and whether it was broken at any time ever is in doubt. If you can post a link to a source code snapshot then do so, if not you don't have anything to contribute here and you should go back to reddit. >the RNG bug is simply not relevant anymore The point is not the bug itself the point is that HardenedBSD is not an independent OS. They pull code from FreeBSD on a regular basis to stay up to date. And FreeBSD is a low quality project full of security bugs. And all those bugs from FreeBSD land in HardenedBSD. >The only real claim made about HardenedBSD is that memory corruption vulnerabilities are fully mitigated, which is "technically" not true but only in a lab environment. In a real-world environment exploits don't go anywhere. You're saying that the bugs you get from FreeBSD don't matter because HardenedBSD's exploit mitigations will 100% protect you. I think that's delusional. >Kill >Your >Self Calm Down Lol

>>70961 >The point is not the bug itself the point is that HardenedBSD is not an independent OS. HardenedBSD is run by a team that operates independently of the FreeBSD project. The premier functionality of HardenedBSD originates entirely from within the HardenedBSD project. The HardenedBSD team can pick and choose code as they see fit from any project, such as what they do with OPNsense. FreeBSD could disappear tomorrow and HardenedBSD would be fine, this would mean they stop pulling from FreeBSD which would effect users who are looking for FreeBSD plus something extra, but this is not the entirety nor even the majority (at least in the commercial space) of the HardenedBSD audience. There are other BSDs and other operating systems to pull code from. >They pull code from FreeBSD on a regular basis to stay up to date. They don't pull code blindly, they pull what's relevant to them as they deem it relevant, modify it as they see fit, and leave things disabled as they see appropriate without getting in the users' way if the users want to use something. In mission critical environments older codebases are intentionally chosen and support contracts for older codebases are maintained, in these contexts "up to date" means patches, not features. This is the same practice of much older version of Linux, sometimes ones that don't even show up on the list at the front page of https://kernel.org supported as default in RedHat's and Canonical's distributions. Google's slide decks in the 2000s explain a similar practice. >And all those bugs from FreeBSD land in HardenedBSD. Some might, potentially. Anyone who has worked with both projects knows that "all those bugs" is not just misleading but horribly inaccurate. The HardenedBSD project leads have been exceedingly clear about their practices. If you can show this board a memory corruption vulnerability (not a programming logic vulnerability) from FreeBSD that landed in HardenedBSD with proof-of-concept exploit code that doesn't require special lab-specific environment to work, there is serious money waiting with your name on it. >FreeBSD is a low quality project Countless storage vendors, among them NetApp and iX Systems build appliances on top of FreeBSD. FreeBSD is well-known in the space of Unix-like mindshare for high quality, but this is relative to Linux. No one would compare OpenBSD and FreeBSD on the quality metric. I may personally agree with you that FreeBSD is low quality relative to other projects, but the notion that FreeBSD is a low quality project is questionable at best, and unless you have better code to show for yourself, is an irresponsible claim. >You're saying that the bugs you get from FreeBSD don't matter because HardenedBSD's exploit mitigations will 100% protect you. I think that's delusional. HardenedBSD's mitigations work against memory corruption specifically. In theory anything can happen with memory corruption and we may uncover something new to mitigate, in practice the mitigations provide full coverage against memory corruption. No one will argue against "exploit mitigations" because in theory the HardenedBSD project could introduce something (even by pulling from the FreeBSD codebase) that contains a programming logic error, which is something that memory corruption mitigations don't address. On x86_64 you *may* have a point for control flow integrity, but that's an x86_64 issue. Most customers paying for HardenedBSD support are taking our advice and using ARM which has hardware features for control flow integrity. >The point is not the bug itself The bug you cited is over eight years old and was "legacy" FreeBSD code pulled in near when the HardenedBSD project started their project, their "fork" of FreeBSD. To cite this bug to claim that HardenedBSD's development practices will be bug ridden is very disingenuous. Hence, simply not relevant. https://www.cheribsd.org/ is derived from FreeBSD and leverages hardware functionality to solve the memory corruption problem. Although people at a higher paygrade than I are saying that OpenBSD's software control flow integrity solves the control flow integrity problem. t. professional systems engineer

>>70961 >The only real claim made about HardenedBSD is that memory corruption vulnerabilities are fully mitigated, which is "technically" not true but only in a lab environment. In a real-world environment exploits don't go anywhere. Nobody is paying $1m bounties for HardenedBSD (or OpenBSD) exploits. Anyone who does have the skills to break their exploit mitigations is probably too busy working on iOS. I'll give you that.

>>70964 >Nobody is paying $1m bounties for HardenedBSD (or OpenBSD) exploits. Correct, but they are hiring. There aren't contractual obligations to prevent incidents but there is reputation (a singular thing) which sustained profit is directly tied to. >is probably too busy working on iOS. The sad part about this is iOS will have a never ending stream of "accidental" vulnerabilities due to where iOS fits in the world.

Just want to remind you all that I use Arch Linux

>>70962 >HardenedBSD is run by a team that operates independently of the FreeBSD project >FreeBSD could disappear tomorrow and HardenedBSD would be fine >They don't pull code blindly, they pull what's relevant to them I'm sure they try their best to audit every patch but it's like a 3 person team and when FreeBSD cuts a release HardenedBSD needs to cut one too to stay compatible. HardenedBSD have and will continue to pull in bugs due to FreeBSD's negligence and incompetence. >If you can show this board a memory corruption vulnerability .. there is serious money waiting with your name on it. There isn't though. >>70964 >FreeBSD is well-known in the space of Unix-like mindshare for high quality, FreeBSD had a trivial buffer overflow in network facing code as recently as last year. >>70780 If you care about security then FreeBSD is garbage. I'm sorry there is no polite way to put it. >in practice the mitigations provide full coverage against memory corruption Do you think it's the only OS with aslr? FreeBSD was actually the last major OS to get alsr even Windows beat it by 10+ years. You call me ignorant for not believing the mitigations are 100% effective. I call you ignorant for not believing that corporations and governments research 24/7 to work around these mitigations. Exploit chains for iOS cost millions of dollars because it's hard but not impossible. >https://www.cheribsd.org/ is derived from FreeBSD Because Dr. Watson was FreeBSD core for like 10 years. They chose it because it's the OS he knows best. >t. professional systems engineer t. senior firmware engineer what now bitch? Actually if you're GMT we're probably in the same city let's just have a pint.

>>70970 >HardenedBSD have and will continue to pull in bugs due to FreeBSD's negligence and incompetence. And not a single one will be an exploitable memory corruption vulnerability due to HardenedBSD's grsecurity-like featureset. > FreeBSD had a trivial buffer overflow in network facing code as recently as last year. If you care about security then FreeBSD is garbage. This just underscores how HardenedBSD is appropriate where security is a constraint. >I'm sorry there is no polite way to put it. The words "FreeBSD is not a fit for such a purpose" are for those more professionally advanced. > Do you think it's the only OS with aslr? The HardenedBSD featureset includes much more than ASLR. This is a repeat of the "ASLR and W^X or whatever". https://hardenedbsd.org/content/easy-feature-comparison >I call you ignorant for not believing that corporations and governments research 24/7 to work around these mitigations. This is a strawman. No one even remotely suggested this. >They chose it because it's the OS he knows best. And thanks to the specialized cpu, FreeBSD on Cheri has full memory corruption mitigations, without any help from the HardenedBSD project. FreeBSD is also arguably the most relevant BSD because most of the market does not care about security. Neither of these projects are a favorite, they are appropriate tools for respective jobs. >If you can show this board a memory corruption vulnerability .. there is serious money waiting with your name on it. The modified punctuation, effectively a misquote provides insight to the psychology at play. >There isn't though. The money involved rivals the salaries of the higher end of AWS' engineering, and just for consulting, but I wouldn't be in a rush to share where/who this action is happening. >You call me ignorant for not believing the mitigations are 100% effective. If you can show a working memory corruption exploit on a HardenedBSD release that will work in a real-world environment then do so, otherwise you have nothing to contribute here.

>>70969 see https://github.com/anthraxx/linux-hardened and its relation to Arch

>>70970 >FreeBSD was actually the last major OS to get alsr even Windows beat it by 10+ years. While this is a neat factoid, this isn't recognizable by as a valid argument against HardenedBSD by anyone who actually understands this subject matter.

>>70974 >And not a single one will be an exploitable memory corruption vulnerability due to HardenedBSD's grsecurity-like featureset. Literally 2 lines later. >This is a strawman. No one even remotely suggested this. Which is it? You think a random guy took the most insecure modern OS and added some patches he ported from grsec and now you've got an OS that not even the NSA can exploit? Be clear, is that actually what you are saying in this thread? >If you can show a working memory corruption exploit on a HardenedBSD release that will work in a real-world environment then do so I can't but that doesn't mean nobody can. >And thanks to the specialized cpu, FreeBSD on Cheri has full memory corruption mitigations, You're saying the hardware provides memory safety regardless of what garbage runs on top of it. How is this defending FreeBSD. Bonus question, if HardenedBSD is already perfect why are they wasting time building CHERI? >The money involved rivals the salaries of the higher end of AWS' engineering, and just for consulting, but I wouldn't be in a rush to share where/who this action is happening. If you say so mr professional systems engineer. Now that I think about it if the "consultants" you work for are scamming people into thinking HardenedBSD is 100% secure and invulnerable to all attacks then it makes sense why you are getting so upset in this thread. >>70977 >this isn't recognizable by as a valid argument against HardenedBSD It is an argument against using such an insecure OS as a base for a secure OS.

>>70978 >You're saying the hardware provides memory safety regardless of what garbage runs on top of it. The Cheri project itself claims and also demonstrates that memory safety vulnerabilities are mitigated. It was already explained to you that programming logic mistakes are not. >Now that I think about it What you think doesn't contribute anything meaningful to this thread. You aren't very intelligent and very clearly don't belong on this board. Given what you've posted you clearly don't know anything about writing safe C. >if the "consultants" you work for are scamming people into thinking HardenedBSD is 100% secure and invulnerable to all attacks Yet another strawman. No one says that HardenedBSD is "invulnerable to all attacks", only that memory corruption vulnerabilities are mitigated. >then it makes sense why you are getting so upset in this thread. This doesn't work on a technology board. No one is "upset" with you, we find you pathetic and disgusting. What one could speculate about "early life" is also becoming probable. >It is an argument against using such an insecure OS as a base for a secure OS. If FreeBSD didn't already have ASLR then HardenedBSD would at it on their own. It's not an argument that makes any sense. >You think a random guy Someone who can implement the grsecurity patchset is hardly a "random guy", he is extremely talented. You have nothing, and given you can't contribute anything of substance you are nothing. Stop soyk4fing up the board. >took the most insecure modern OS FreeBSD doesn't have security as a central value, but is hardly the most insecure. >and now you've got an OS that not even the NSA can exploit? If anyone can demonstrate a memory corruption exploit that would actually work, the NSA can. No one claimed they can't. It has already been spelled out for you multiple times that HardenedBSD's featureset mitigates memory corruption vulnerabilities. You are unable to refute that central point. You are not anywhere near the paygrade of others posting here. You're just going in circles with others further demonstrating you were wrong the first time around. Your arguments are trash and this has actually become very boring. The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day. Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck. I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.

>patches he ported from grsec and now you've got an OS that not even the NSA can exploit? Given what grsecurity does, the probability that anyone (even NSA) can exploit a memory corruption vulnerability is actually extremely low. Anyone who understands how the technology works would actually know this.

The bible says "do not cast pearls before swine". >>70970 is a shining example of why.

>>70979 I'm an outsider that just lurks on /mega/ but by my feel of it you're losing and you're an autistic cunt

This personality type: >Just because he hurt your feelings doesn't mean he's wrong. >just because you have ASLR and W^X and whatever. >I can see from how upset you're getting >Your favorite OS >I'm sorry there is no polite way to put it. >You think a random guy >If you say so mr professional systems engineer. I have encountered at various jobs. They are utter cancer on the industry and a huge pain for talented people who put the work in. They can never stay anywhere for too long. These types not only lie on their resume they inevitably spend more time trying to deflect onto others when it starts to become obvious they can't do a job. They are utterly contemptible. >>70983 >but by my feel of it you're losing >feel Obvious samefagging, but I'll bite. Technology doesn't care about feelings. The other anon's points about the technologically involved are accurate, the kike is totally demolished. >>70981 >Anyone who understands how the technology works would actually know this. exactly this

I'd like to see if there is some pattern examples of the Rust compiler not preventing exploitable vulnerabilities (in a production setting) that are a result of memory corruption. I have asked for this on various boards and mailing list and no one has been able to produce it. There was a finding that one release where "the stars aligned" and Rust compiler produced something that was exploitable, however it did not underline a flaw in Rust's toolchain architecture, it was a significant find that was worthy of the attention of the upper echelon of those holding computer science and computer engineering backgrounds. These kinds of problems are cracked by resources operating in both public and private sector. Rust and GoLang eliminate memory corruption vulnerabilities almost the entire time. The exceptions are universally very interesting to a lot of people who are in the realm of people required to write an OS kernel to graduate. These languages exist because for example, the woman working on a new layer-3 protocol holds different skillsets than the guy who who has a thesis on compiler optimization. The finding in FreeBSD's ping is a reflection of how developers don't think like engineers. GoLang solves this problem. >Much like grsecurity completely mitigated the somewhat recent memory corruption vulnerabilities in Linux's NetFilter, the hardening provided by HardenedBSD do the same If Rust and GoLang solved the memory corruption problems a long time ago then I don't see why an implementation of grsecurity which tackles the memory corruption problem from the opposite angle couldn't achieve what is ostensibly the same goal. OpenBSD is written in C. There have been no remote code execution vulnerabilities successfully exploiting the network stack of OpenBSD releases. At every angle there are billions spent on efforts to poison FOSS. Linus was compromised. There was a globohomo cancel campaign run against Stallman over a nothingburger. How did Debian's OpenSSL rng get broken? Why would this happen in FreeBSD? If just incompetence and not sabotaged by glowies then the glowies know what avenue to attack from.

>>65747 >also when i watch movies or scroll in my browser, it doesn't tear every fuarrrking time xorg has tearfree built in you just have to enable it or just use wayland

>>71019 Why care about Wayland compositors when you can run https://arcan-fe.com/ on OpenBSD?

>>71027 pls tell me more about Arcan. how is the software support? how to run it?

>>71031 >>71027 Arcan dev also posted a deeper version of that xenocara report 5 years ago, too bad there is not more collab. https://arcan-fe.com/2018/04/25/towards-secure-system-graphics-arcan-and-openbsd/ It's not like they're mutually exclusive, arcan-wayland works fine on OpenBSD here since sometime last year but it's optional and I only use it with --exec-x11 for qutebrowser. Durden is a really interesting WM, a better awesomeWM/i3/...

Wish I could modify CRUX package manager to have atomic packages, is a brilliant package manager otherwise

are there any modern OS's usable as a daily driver that require NO updates? something completely stable with 0 regular maintenance?

>>71253 absolutely not, unless you're running a purely offline system, in which case the answer is 'absolutely yes' with any OS.

>>71255 yeah i figured not. got any recommendations for very stable operating systems with minimal update frequency?

>>65925 Haven't found QubesOS to be all that slow even on fairly old workstation hardware. Though if you switch from SSD to HDD? You will notice it. The whole thing is way more IO-bound than compute-bound. Also needs a fuarrrkton of ram but that's cheap.

>>71258 debian keystrokes keystrokes

>>71259 confirm the io statement. running VM on the same HDD the host is running is terrible. disagree with the >way more statement. hardware matters a lot when running beefy applications in a VM. you can't buy cheap soykaf and happily VM the lain out of it. you'll have to be generous enough to get a decent CPU and a mountain of RAM and then you'll likely be happy.

>>71258 Debian/Devuan or Slackware/Salix OS.

The universal one. >tfw using a month+ old packages what is backports, external .deb packages, flatpak

>>64379 I like using Open SUSE because of the funny little chameleon

>>64423 Currently using it, aswell as the musl build. no problems and i'm really enjoying it. if i can't find something in the officla repositories i'll just see if i can find a flatpak.

I have some interest in Fuchsia. It's open source, posix compatible, has a potentially decent graphical stack, and isn't a hobbyist project with a bus factor of 1. In Fuchsia, graphics are a first class citizen, rather than a cobbled together afterthought. Some things I like about Fuchsia: >Fuchsia’s filesystems live entirely within userspace. They are not linked nor loaded with the kernel; they are simply userspace processes that implement servers that can appear as filesystems. As a consequence, Fuchsia’s filesystems themselves can be changed with ease >Zircon is an object-based kernel. User mode code almost exclusively interacts with OS resources via object handles. >In Fuchsia, almost everything is a component and it is the unit of executable software... Components can only use shared libraries that are included in the same package as the component... There is no concept of inter-package dependencies >A given release of the Fuchsia platform typically supports multiple ABI revisions, which lets the platform run older applications >Scenic provides support for individual screenshots, as well as ongoing screen capture.

ITT, we discuss alternative operating systems and retro or alternative ISAs. We discuss alternatives to Windows, Mac and Linux, such as SerenityOS, Haiku, GNU/HURD, AmigaOS/AROS and rare BSDs, as well homebrew projects and operating system development. We also we discuss non-x86 ISAs from the past (6502, 68000, Alpha, Itanium, PA-RISC, PowerPC, SuperH, VAX, Z80, PDP-11), the present (ARM, MIPS, POWER, SPARC) and the future (RISC-V, OpenPOWER). You can also ask here for more information. Don't forget to check out the wiki, by the way! >AIG Wiki: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki//aig/_Alternative_ISA_General >AOSG wiki: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki//aosg/_Alternative_Operating_System_General

>>72346 >rare BSDs What does that mean?

>>72346 I've tried many alternative OSes over the years to see how feasible they are as daily drivers. >SerenityOS Very aesthetic OS, but will be a while before it can be daily driveable. Last time I checked they haven't gotten it working on any actual hardware. The browser was also quite buggy, but impressive that they are making their own for SerenityOS. Honestly, with enough community support and 5 more years of development, and it can become daily driveable for a lot of basic things, especially if they can port a firefox or chromium to it. >Haiku Definitely daily driveable in the current state. Has a lot of software in the ports repo (gimp, libreoffice, a lot of Qt software), has a few Webkit browsers, works on quite a lot of hardware (I have it installed on a spare thinkpad). Only dealbreaker is if you need some webapp that only works on chrome or something. >AmigaOS/AROS Could not get an AROS installed on hardware. Although from what I've seen you can daily drive MorphOS on PPC hardware pretty well. >OpenIndiana Based on Solaris. It's a Unix, has a lot of software in the package repo, has firefox, and can definitely be used as a daily driver. I've gotten it installed on hardware before (thinkpad) and even got Windows games running through WINE on it (last time I used it, it had WINE 4.0 in the package repo). >>72360 >What does that mean? Likely ones that are not the big 3 (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD), stuff like HardenedBSD (security hardened fork of FreeBSD). Speaking of HardenedBSD, I got it installed on bare metal hardware once, but the DE I was trying to use was too buggy.

There's already a thread for this >>64379 Fuchsia interests me >>72254

I use Artix on a daily basis. It has power of Arch repos and does not have such complicated initialization system like systemd.

>>64423 haven't used it, but from what research i've done i can't see why you'd use it over artix

I've been using!_OS for a little bit now. I don't yet have any strong opinions one way or another. Although, it seems to be very adequate for everyday use. Not too boring, not too specialized.

>>72820 I'd like to try Artix but I'm afraid that the majority of packages I want won't work because they were created with systemd in mind.

>>76070 most packages couldnt care less what your init system is and thats still mostly what systemd is

I use Artix on my computer, but once I get a free wifi adapter I want to switch to Parabola OpenRC. The only reason not to use a fully free distro is if you are unable to use one (ie your hardware requires proprietary drivers)

I use OpenSUSE Tumbleweed on my desktop (because I don't want stuff to get in the way of my gaming, I literally just want as few headaches as possible for Linux gaming) and waiting too long for an update has never broken anything as compared to arch. Software support is a little spotty, but that means you just have to get hands dirty if you want to do something niche that is probably already on Arch I want to try FreeBSD as a daily thing, but, there's too many things (like writing apps I like - Apostrophe, Obsidian) that don't work on FreeBSD. I also want to try Gentoo eventually, I have a 12 core/16t laptop that I think would make the attempt not so difficult, but then again I have no clue how long compiling the kernel, etc takes.

I've personally been using Debian in the Virtual Machine for the last couple years, the only reason why I haven't made the switch is because I use a shared computer.

I use NixOS, and I have a small 9Front Grid but havent had the time to properly play around with it yet

>>64379 What I'm currently using? Fedora (unfortunately). I settled on it a good while ago due to fears of compatibility after getting a proper life outside the internet, but I'm really not a fan of it. My only reason to like it is it's reasonably up to date (though less than I would actually like, if just for a couple specific programs I use daily and are guaranteed to have improvements with every update) and won't leave me running about for half a day trying to fix something that broke. Since finding out about Distrobox, I haven't cared as much for compatibility, but I'm still stuck on finding a good, minimal distro that I can daily-drive after a day max of configuring it. I've been really interested in actual UNIX systems as well for the past 2 years (Linux being merely an imitation of the UNIX perfection) since installing OpenBSD to try it out and falling in love with it, from there I checked out plan9 (after researching a bit of cwm) and OpenIndiana, the latter specifically which appeals to me currently. There is constant temptation to go balls out and install one of these systems, though I fear something I need and that works on Linux, won't on OpenBSD and OpenIndiana. WINE, Virtual Machines, Electron Applications, and whatever stupid little programs I found on Github. Ideally I'd have multiple computers to engage in this newfound love of mine but I don't have the money for that just yet

>What operating systems do you use, know and/or think are interesting? I started out with Apple DOS in the early 1980s, but soon moved to CP/M-80 and ZCPR2, which I liked a lot. Then I had to use PC-DOS and then Windows because work. When Linux came out I couldn't get Yggdrasil to work and I didn't like early Debian. so I used Slackware for a while. Volkerding was the shiz. Then I got interested in Android for a long time. When I came back to Linux there were all of these new, slick, easy-to-install-and-use distros. I tried Mint and some other distros but moved to Debian, which had matured to the point of being just right imo, and I used that for a long time. Then they screwed it all up with systemd, so I ejected and went with Devuan, which I've been using ever since. Fully satisfied. Tried MX Linux for a bit, which is another systemd-less Debian derivative, but some of the things they did gave me bad vibes, So I went back to Devuan. The only other OS that interests me is OpenBSD, but I'm too lazy to get into BSD unless Linux gets really bad. All good things pass, as they say, so it's nice to have a plan B just in case.

>>64379 OpenSUSE MicroOS Aeon because its simple and very stable. It forces me to use containers instead of having a mess of RPMs and jacked up packages. I have a simple way to deploy distrobox overlays and install the packages i need but the core system stays pretty untouched. I reboot about once a week to do patching. Rolling release and I've only had a minor issue with Linux booting slow that was patched like the next day. but the patching is atomic so rollbacks are seamless.

>>64392 I totally agree - posting this from Pop_OS! now I default everything to tiling mode because the flow is extremely nice. Shit just werks out of the box. My only complaint is the LTS packaging is old as piss. Vim is too old for most plugins. Podman is too old for most integrations. definately need something with packages that aren't 2+ years old. I know System76 has been really focused on COSMIC which is going to be fuarrrking amazing. I'm hoping when they release COSMIC they'll move off the LTS pattern again.

>>64379 >What operating systems do you use, know and/or think are interesting? I use Arch on my laptop, and Gentoo on my desktop Apart from Linux (especially Gentoo) I think NetBSD is interesting, because of its design in portability and accessability

Gentoo got optional binary packages. >https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html >https://www.gentoo.org/news/2024/02/04/x86-64-v3.html Tired of compiling LLVM, Rust, Firefox, LibreOffice and Chromium on slow PCs? You can now install those programs from binary packages and still compile other programs from source! You can also fetch binary packages of important system software and you can use them as backups if something breaks while you are experimenting with CFLAGS!

>>76295 This is not as good as anyone here would hope I expect. The only OpenRC packages compiled are those in the "nomultilib" profile, and anything in the "plasma" or "gnome" profiles are compiled with systemd over OpenRC. It does nothing but reinforce the lack of choice modern Linux gives you, half the reason to choose to run Gentoo. Packages can be compiled to your system, and fit the needs of your system, rather than the desire of the developers (GNOME in specific is intended by Red Hat to only work against systemd, despite the fact that a dozen different init systems exist, and getting any program to work with any of them isn't really difficult). Gentoo documentation even makes mention that the "nomultilib" profile is only intended for users who are sure beyond the shadow of a doubt that they will not use or need 32 bit programs. I have not tested it out, but I'm pretty sure this means half of WINE is completely useless when using the binary package. It also means users with 32 bit computers (which are usually much slower and far less capable than 64 bit computers) cannot use the binary packages, even if they are the ones who would benefit the most from it. I am not confident in the current Gentoo development team, in the binary packages announcement they state the pre-compiled packages should reach the largest number of users, yet all of the users that benefit from these are the normal user users who don't even benefit from using Gentoo and would be just fine using any other distro out there, as the things Gentoo is officially offering are no different from any other popular distro's. There are some silver linings however, I think you could skip quite a few large dependency packages like llvm still while running a pure Gentoo system with OpenRC. If I am correct on that then you should still be able to save a few days of compile time on an old computer. It is a plus, but it would just have been better had they stopped trying to be a generic soykaf distro and used Portage's power to turn the packaging system into a proper Ports Tree, with the ability to install or compile any package in the repository without concerning yourself with whether or not the developer wants you to use a selection of packages a certain way.

>>76072 The Parabola ISOs are quite old, would you say the best way to migrate to Parabola OpenRC is to migrate from Artix? I'm currently on Parabola Systemd that I migrated from Arch, and it won't let me migrate to OpenRC (package conflicts).

I use Trisquel GNU/Linux on my Thinkpad. Wifi doesn't work but I just always use ethernet anyways. Some packages are quiet outdated (Emacs installed via apt can't even connect to refresh/install packages) so I use guix for things I want more up to date or I just compile it myself. I thought about trying out Guix System but I'm happy enough with Trisquel. OpenBSD is something I've used in the past and really enjoy it (especially the documentation) but GNU/Linux works better for what I want. I've experimented with 9Front on an older PC and while fun to mess around with isn't really viable for my everyday needs. Haven't used Winblows for almost a decade.

>>76295 >>76297 Has the work on this made it easier to self-host a binary repo? A few (5+) years ago I tried running Gentoo on my home server and laptop. I wanted to have the server keep track of @world on my laptop, and automatically pre-compile packages through a cronjob so I could just emerge --update @world on my laptop to pull binary packages from my server and update instantly. I never got it working properly though.

>>64625 >NYC BUG Talk : NetBSD for the Advanced Minimalist <This document describes a NetBSD setup that relies on as few dependencies as possible. <It is equally suitable for small laptops and for bigger machines. <https://www.nycbug.org/event/10694/advmin.pdf >>66441 I am also very interested in BSD. I am hoping for some OS diversity so that IBM/Red Hat don't get too much control of Linux and turn it into Windows. Ironically meanwhile, Microsoft is trying to turn Windows into Linux + Spyware (WSL, Windows Terminal, Sudo for Windows, UTF-8). UNIX is winning the mind-share, but I don't want a red hat owned Linux future. >>64379 I just switched my box from Qubes to a customized BSD setup with disposable bhyve VMs created by rollbacking ZFS snapshots on disk. I am also using jails to reduce resource requirements where a full VM isn't needed (Ie. local development). FreeBSD as a Bhyve guest can't do Wayland graphics, but I was able to work around this with waypipe and socat to tunnel my GUI IPC out, at a cost of more exposed surface. >>65925 I switched from Qubes. Its a yuge resource hog that makes doing anything other than its way impossible, but doing what It does super easy. Example, creating VMs is like kicking dead whales down the beach, but spinning disposable templates is so easy. Backup is easy, unless you want incremental backup, or unencrypted backup because your volume is already LUKS. Qubes taught me compartmentalization, but I'd like to move on.

>>70760 hey anon, how is your battery life with the 1440p panel installed? I have a t420s and I've been optimizing a few things to get the battery life better. Currently at 50% brightness I'm sucking up 10 watts just browsing lainchan but if I stream any youtube or use a site like keybr dot com which uses typescript, my thinkpad starts sucking up 15-17watts. I've been trying to find a 9 cell battery so that I can get more than 5 hours on a full charge but its hard to find so far.

For years Ive been a debian user but the recent politicization and shipping of buggy DEs made me to abort the ship. I tried arch linux - the distro of people but the package dependencies versions tend to mismatch with updates and downgrading/ignoring certain ones gets tiring after some time, also systemd (ik of artix) by default. I was considering Gentoo - the idea of compiling packages locally is not appealing to me. And Apline linux - seemed more server oriented as opposed to void. Now I use void, the philosophy is similar to bsd meaning it's an actual stable release, also no systemd. >>64423

>>64379 >What operating systems do you use, gnu/linux >know a lot >and/or think are interesting? multics, genera, gnu/hurd, plan 9, inferno, genode

Bedrock Linux, basically lets you mash together parts of other distros (mostly) without issues

>>64423 I use Void as a daily driver. It's not tough. Sure, it's repos are a bit lacking sometimes but xbps is lean and fast. If someone has relied on systemd in the past, then it's lack might be felt since it relies on alternative runit, I think.

Do you have any evidence Void Linux is deteriorating? I must know before I choose to waste my time on it.

>>79890 It has constant updates, last month alone, the kernel was updated about 6 times, the problem is the devs, nothing against them, the problem is that they are trannies. I also had that problem with hyprland. I honestly don't think it's deteriorating. After using it for a year, I haven't noticed any difference in the quality of the packages. Just have a backup distro in case something happens to void.

Tomorrow I will install Gentoo again. Portage is just so good! >>79890 Void Linux is solid. You need to check that everything you need is packaged in the repos. The XBPS package format is easy to understand, so you can package the programs that aren't in the repos. However, Everything I personally use has been packaged for Void.

>>79892 There is also xdeb (not recommended) and xbps-src, which greatly expands the number of packages you can have in void.

>>79891 >the problem is that they are trannies Literally most of the devs out there are trannies, there is no choice but to deal with them overtaking the field. Can you please expand on this statement? I would greatly appreciate a more thorough inside.

>>79895 Trannies usually have a short lifespan, causing many projects to be abandoned, but other than that, in terms of skill, I have nothing to complain about. I really wish the situation were different.

>>79895 The problem with trannies is the meds they take makes them moody and prone to fits of uncontrollable rage. And since they are surrounded by tranny bashers they are all basically paranoid while high on drugs that fuarrrk with their emotions. This leads to drama which causes projects to collapse and everything is destroyed in a fit of anger.

>>79897 And still have this too.

>>79896 >>79897 Much appreciated. Now please elaborate more on why exactly you think Void Linux has trannies in its crew and why, say, Debian GNU/Linux doesn't? Or Gentoo for that matter?

>>79899 >Now please elaborate more on why exactly you think Void Linux has trannies in its crew. The main ones, who rule the distro are: Trannies: Leah, Emi (paper) and Classa Bad mental health (probably dead): Duncan >and why, say, Debian GNU/Linux doesn't I never said this, there must probably be many in several other distros, and in these same distros the same problem occurs, package abandonment. You want to know where I'm going with this, don't you? Well, it's simple, look at the proportion of people who are using Gentoo and Debian now, there are a lot of them, aren't there? If a packager, or a user who is a trannie leaves the distro, it wouldn't hinder its development much. In the case of void, there are only a few strays, if one dies and others abandon the distro, the structure of void itself is ruined.

>>79901 >>79899 Fidelis here, I forgot to put the nickname.

>>79891 >muh trannies The problem with Void Linux is that xbps-src and pretty much the whole project is hosted on Microsoft Shithub, more people would contribute to their packages if they left it, definitely more of a problem than the tranny strawman

>>79904 >more people would contribute to their packages if they left it. Elaborate why.

>>79904 Github has the best web interface of all front ends. If they hosted a bugzilla like say libreoffice I figure not even trannies would bother with that dogshit user experience.

>>79901 There are 19 people listed in github. How do I know which of them "rule" the distro? OK 4 of them trannies, one mentally ill. That leaves 14 more people to at least attempt some recuperative effort.

>>79910 >There are 19 people listed in github. How do I know which of them "rule" the distro? See the main ones that are at the forefront of social networks like reddit and X. >OK 4 of them trannies, one mentally ill. That leaves 14 more people to at least attempt some recuperative effort. >>In the case of void, there are only a few strays, if one dies and others abandon the distro, the structure of void itself is ruined. >That leaves 14 more people to at least attempt some recuperative effort. I wish this would work.

>>64379 red hat linux :P lolololololololololololololololololololol

>>79926 Okay one more question. What is a healthy strategy to monitoring the state of security updates in such "uncertain" distros like Void Linux? I never have any doubt that Debian Stable receives security updates in time simply because of how strongly it is backed by enterprise. Same with Arch, since enterprise uses it as well. And so on. But Void Linux doesn't look like the distro enterprise would care about too much, so I have to do all the caring myself. How?

>>79947 About arch: Taken directly from the arch linux forum: "You may be used to distributions like Debian, where they freeze a package/software version to something, then backport selected updates/patches/fixes on their own, because they can't or don't want to follow upstream releases. But given the rolling release nature of Arch Linux, there is no need for such distribution-specific tinkering - the most recent (stable) software is simply taken as-is from upstream, which usually includes all "security fixes"¹." >What does this mean? Just wait for the next update. About void linux: No, void only supports one version of each package and generally sticks to the latest stable upstream version. If a security issue is fixed in a new release that also adds new features or something, we won't stick to the old version and backport the security fixes. Theoretically, xbps would allow you to selectively update the package, but the more you do this, the more you run the risk of incompatibilities. And there is also currently no information exposed about which update fixes the security updates and which update is just a regular release or bug fix. Void, like most rolling releases, has only one channel (here containing 1 repository "main" and 4 subrepos "debug" "nonfree" "multilib" "multilib nonfree"). I don't count "testing" channels like Arch's. Non-rolling distributions have multiple channels, like security and backports for example, to compensate for rather static packages during their lifecycle. >What does this mean? Just wait for the next update. >What is a healthy strategy to monitoring the state of security updates in such "uncertain" distros like Void Linux? And it's all the same if it's a rolling release distribution. >But Void Linux doesn't look like the distro enterprise would care about too much The void linux iso is great on dockers and ARM, Maybe one day she will be valued for this. >So I have to do all the caring myself. Yes >How? Waiting... This is the price you pay for using a rolling release distro, even though Void doesn't have a company behind it, the updates aren't as frenetic as Arch Linux's, it takes a while, and only stable updates make it into Void's repositories, which is why Hyprland hasn't made it into Void, and probably never will. I believe that using only stable packages is already a good strategy, given its rolling release nature.

>>79947 I forgot to put, about the Void text, it was written in Duncan's own words on reddit, about the same question you asked.

>>79910 I can't help but laugh reading this. This is the point we're at. The eunuch caste has been resurrected.

>>79899 I don't have an issue with trannies. I see no difference between Void and other Linux distros on this issue. All I'm saying is trannies are moody as fuarrrk and combine that with today's political climate and you have frequent meltdowns and destruction of promising projects. Like that one zine that burned up because of a love triangle that involved a schizo and a tranny. Stupid soykaf like that. Solution is to develop better tranny meds and put mentally ill contributors in straitjackets.

>>79952 >Just wait for the next update. And where does the monitoring happen? The problem is not in waiting for a new update, but knowing that this update isn't too late. If a package rolls out an emergency security fix, it is usually coordinated with major distributions. How will Void handle this? They did have some glibc problems not so long ago AFAIK. I don't want to wake up one day with half my system cluttered with RCEs that have been fixed elsewhere.

>>79956 >How will Void handle this? Honestly, I don't know and I don't care how Void will handle this, but they will find a way, like they did with lzyx. >I don't want to wake up one day with half my system cluttered with RCEs that have been fixed elsewhere. Well, I can't help you with that. Use Devuan or some distro other than Rolling Realese, I used Debian (sid) for 4 years, and then Devuan (ceres) for another 4 years, maybe one day I'll go back to Devuan, but for now I'm sticking with Void.

>>79958 >I don't care how Void will handle this, but they will find a way That's not really an answer to the issue though. >or some distro other than Rolling Realese What does package upgrade model have to do with getting security updates pushed to repos in time?

>>79962 >That's not really an answer to the issue though. I am not a programmer, I work with people and/or with my hands, unfortunately I do not have enough knowledge to create a solution for this problem. That's why I don't care. >What does package upgrade model have to do with getting security updates pushed to repos in time? Oh now I see, you're asking how quickly the security patch will come out, right? "At the time when Debian 11 was about to be released, PHP 8.0 was 10 months old yet Debian 11 was released with PHP 7.4. That makes PHP 7.4 the standard in Debian stable for at least 3 years after its release. But PHP 7.4 only got upstream support until 28 Nov 2021 and security support is permanently ended at 28 Nov 2022. This means that unless Debian has some really good C developers who can work on PHP, no one can provide any security fixes for PHP 7.4. Not only that, no one outside of Debian will be monitoring problems with PHP 7.4 because everyone else will long since have upgraded to PHP 8." From UnixDigest I believe he has more general knowledge about Debian than I do. >What does package upgrade model have to do with getting security updates pushed. The faster the packaging model, the faster you will get security patches. But at the end of the day, you'll just have to wait. Or use one of these distros: https://oss-security.openwall.org/wiki/mailing-lists/distros

>>79956 >And where does the monitoring happen? Void Linux Github repo and Repology website. If you notice that a package is out of date, you can update it yourself and open a PR. You should also hang out in the IRC. If you absolutely can't use Shithub, you need to unfortunately just hope that the maintainers are doing it fast enough. You 3rd option is to switch to another distro. I can recommend Artix (with OpenRC or S6) or Gentoo. If you want musl you can use Alpine Linux. I have run all 4 distros. Packaging new programs is very easy on all of these, provided you know basics of Bash scripting. You can learn it at... >Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide >https://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html The Grymoire website can be also helpfu: >https://www.grymoire.com/Unix/index.html

Void Linux has too bare bones configuration. Often you will find yourself looking up how Debian folks configured certain packages and copying it to Void, because figuring it out on your own is just too time consuming and error prone. Even pam. You want pam_mount? Debian got you covered. Void got you checking your Debian pam configs, so you can figure it out. You want pam_wheel? Same. You want rootless xorg? Be so kind and compile xorg-server yourself. At least xbps-src is trivial to use, so you don't have to blow your brains out to do it. You want encrypted swap? Sowwy but crypt.awk doesn't support plain option, so you have to read the source and notice that you merely need to uncomment it. Why has it been commented in the first place? In the end, Void Linux boils down to mundane micromanagement of Linux's under the hood soykaf.

>>64379 00000000 50 61 72 72 6f 74 4f 53 20 77 69 74 68 20 6b 69 |ParrotOS with ki| 00000010 63 6b 73 65 63 75 72 65 2d 63 6c 69 2d 68 6f 73 |cksecure-cli-hos| 00000020 74 20 61 6e 64 20 73 65 63 75 72 69 74 79 2d 6d |t and security-m| 00000030 69 73 63 20 61 6d 6f 75 6e 67 20 6f 74 68 65 72 |isc amoung other| 00000040 20 74 68 69 6e 67 73 20 69 6e 73 74 61 6c 6c 65 | things installe| 00000050 64 20 69 79 6b 79 6b 2e 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 |d iykyk. | 00000060 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 | | 00000070 68 74 74 70 73 3a 2f 2f 77 77 77 2e 6b 69 63 6b |https://www.kick| 00000080 73 65 63 75 72 65 2e 63 6f 6d 2f 77 69 6b 69 2f |secure.com/wiki/| 00000090 44 65 62 69 61 6e 23 43 4c 49 5f 76 65 72 73 69 |Debian#CLI_versi| 000000a0 6f 6e |on| 000000a2 Or literally anything Debian based (e.g Not Ubuntu as it causes issues with third party debian repos if you want a broken system install Ubuntu based distro with debian repos)

I currently use openbsd with cwm and i really like the lightweight base, stability, good man docs, good C code practices and security... however i might install something else on another drive because: - battery life needs work still - i want to try a early 2000s - like setup with emacs and learn lisp - keep vidya and their dependencies on a separate OS since i think half of my installed packages are vidya dependencies and libraries that i never use so i'm thinking about trying guix but i still want to think about it. (feel free to give advice) by the way i often wonder what would Lain use in present day present time.

>>64379 Am on linux mint, want to go to debian. Don't know arch, ppl sure are exotic. Also, AntiX linux is dope. Used it on a crappy laptop.

>>80151 >muh arch >never signed tarballs in the package manager (pacman) untill recent years after its inception Arch Linux enabled package signing in its package manager, pacman, in version 3.0, which was released in 2006. This version introduced support for GPG signatures, allowing users to verify the integrity and authenticity of packages before installation. The implementation of package signing was part of Arch's commitment to security and ensuring that users could trust the software they were installing from the official repositories. >>debian >In the early days, the signing of source packages was not as formalized, but as security concerns grew and the need for package integrity became more critical, Debian adopted more rigorous signing practices. By the time of Debian 1.1 (released in 1996), the use of PGP signatures for both binary and source packages was established.

>Debian stable is rock-solid, but the packages are too old. It takes about a minute to add the Debian backports repo to sources.list. And even if you don't, you're getting the relevant security updates.

>>80154 >pacman Using latest software with malicious latest commit to code, which more then half the packages are maintained by one unpaid volunteer.

>>80155 isn't that an issue that every distro with a package manager has?

>>80155 What are you talking about? Debian uses apt, not pacman. And security updates are frequent and timely.

>>80038 Void Linux is an almost useless distribution that fails to meet basic demands of a desktop system and can only be considered for use in very minimalistic systems or embedded, but even then there are most likely better alternatives made specifically for the purpose. Somebody suggested that Void is sometimes used for using containers on top of it to prevent unnecessary overhead of more complex distributions, but that's not an achievement of Void, more of a happenstance. The problem with Void is that it is maintained by a small group of mentally ill volunteers, most of which are probably autistic on top, not mentioning their gender identities. In terms of sheer usability it looses to every "more known" distribution in every way, like Arch, Gentoo, Debian, etc. It does not add anything of value to the ecosystem, since more robust and convenient systemd-less solutions already exist. In fact, Void barely implements a usable system at all. It does work where they think it is supposed to work, but any non-trivial workflow requires you to put immense effort into fixing what should be functional out of the box. That said, I can with full confidence tell you, my local Void Linux advertiser, to fuarrrk off. You opinion is based entirely on your autism and your misaligned sense of self. To other people, if you want to go down the rabbit hole, Slackware and Gentoo are likely to dig you deep enough for you to wish you just meekly stayed above.

>>80173 I don't understand your point of view, you say that void linux is made by autistics and trannies, and then you recommend two distros Slackware and Gentoo that have their majority of autistic or tranny users. Slackware in this case has more autistics than even Arch. Not to mention Gentoo, where you can find a ton of pictures taken of retards, autistics, and trannies, using this distro with the "linux sock". >are likely to dig you deep enough for you to wish you just meekly stayed above. Your wish is that this were true.

My point of view is that Void is usable only by a thin margin and one you make a step away from their handbook you're basically reimplementing wheels yourself all over again.

>>80191 >you're basically reimplementing wheels yourself all over again. Don't get me wrong, but all distros are reinventing the wheel. The only ones that really change something are the BSDs and those that have companies behind them, like Fedora, Debian and currently Arch with Valve.

>>80192 If you're reimplementing wheels please do it right, so I don't have to reimplement my own wheels on top of it to get the fuarrrking /etc/runit/1 done right.

artix linux with tiled kde setup.. it works better than i thought

This is a Konqueror test. Will the site allow me to post this comment with my browser? Let's find out. (Love how Lainchan CSS looks mostly compatible with it. That's awesome.)

>>80156 >>80169 The point is that debians software packages were signed and checked all the way back to 1996 and arch enabled it pacman in 2006 lol Its beyond me as to why they didn't enable it from the get go. I guess it trival but that kinda makes me leary using arch and whole anti debian thing is regarding systemd which arch also uses except for a few arch derivatives lol https://lwn.net/Articles/434990/ >Arch Linux practices rolling releases, with new packages pushed out as tarballs made available on the primary project server, and mirrored on close to 100 sites around the globe. Although the official installation guide and download page both emphasize the importance of examining the checksums of downloads, no packages are signed by individual developers or by the main project server. Supply chain attacks are becoming more common not in just hardware but software sources and libraries https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/revival-hijack-supply-chain-attack-threatens-22-000-pypi-packages/

I like Q4OS as it supports early 2000s laptops really well but I hate how most people that are into it are those nostalgia-obsessed retards who are never into Linux to begin with and only care about it because it has the looks of Windows XP. It's those people that care about something only because of aesthetics.

>>64423 Couldn't get it working on 2 machines, and not even in a vm. Each time something failed, and ofc not enough info out there to fix it. Wasted 2 hours and came to conclusion that I won't ever use any os that I cannot install under 30 minutes.>>64423

wtf guys void linux is dead simple to install and get running, making it useful is a challenge though and requires a lot of manual work

>>80224 >kde setup KDE comes with geoclue and gpsd running by default lol utter trash have fun getting tracked just cause it looks aesthetically pleasing

>>81052 It's dead simple till it's not. I eventually installed it, but using some yet unreleased iso from reddit with some patch. It's simple only if everything goes right.

>>81056 >It's dead simple till it's not. Yep, their base system is pretty soykafty. They only implement the trivial part but once you get past them well screw you go DIY

>>81057 to be honest after few hours of using it I gotta admit that the os is nice overall. Package manager was my biggest worry, but turned out to be one of the best things about this distro, works way better than expected. The base system is really "base" because it didn't come with any text editor except some bugged vi, and some other packages that are usually preinstalled like unzip. The installation was a pain. If one of the maintainers didn't provide patched iso, I would never be able to install it, and I do not run on some exotic hardware. Had to reinstall and later manually configure grub because it didn't boot after installation was completed. It boots extremely slowly for some reason, and I still have not fixed it. But yeah, it's great when it's already installed.