Cars

What does the average Lain here think of the increasing radical encroachment of technology on cars? I understand most Lains are alternative types who may not care or like cars, but for those who do the changes have been rapid and depressing. 30 years ago you could go for a drive and have not a single processor in reach. Now every facet of how you use the vehicle can be tracked by the manufacturer and other agents. Cars keep growing and becoming more expensive and bogged down with computers. A big stink is made of right to repair for computers but nobody seems to care about cars. Manufacturers are making cars that can it possibly stand to the test of time in the way older cars did. Imagine having a computer sit outside in the Midwest for 5 years and expecting it to work. A big stink is made about EVs but nobody seems to think about how disposable these cars are and how little care is given to longevity and repairability. Here is a video that might be of interest to Lain https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ucL1TsGdQFI

>>63390 Not very much into cars but I agree it is a rather depressing state of affairs technology wise. I cannot see an open-source car becoming a reality any time soon, and I doubt manufacturers are going to stop invasive practices, not when the government stands to benefit too. In terms of EV's, they seem like more of a toy than a legitimate solution in the current state. Perhaps in the future people will become more comfortable converting older vehicles into EV or (more realistically) hybrid ones, combining the (comparatively) tracker-free nature of old cars with the benefits of new technology. Perhaps these sort of cars already exist, as I said I am not very knowledgeable about cars.

>>63390 >30 years ago you could go for a drive and have not a single processor in reach. The thing is those cars were painfully slow and wasted a lot of gas. So some technology like electronic fuel injection is a good thing. But I agree, maybe post-2010?, cars have way too much technology. If there's a fuarrrking touchscreen on the dashboard then that's a nope.jpg from me. Don't forget though that cars are designed to be modular. Look at the fuses in your owners manual. Most of those represent subsystems you can turn off and still run the car. The ABS sensor in one of my wheels is broken. I took the fuse out, no more ABS or traction control but the car doesn't give a fuarrrk. >A big stink is made about EVs but nobody seems to think about how disposable these cars are and how little care is given to longevity and repairability. EVs are a big problem because the most expensive part is the batteries and when you're gone they're gone. You can't service them or rebuild them like an old engine. If >50% of the car's value is in the batteries then why would you bother buying new batteries? Just junk the whole car and get the newest shiny model. Nobody is thinking about the effects on the working class either. Right now you can buy a 20 year old car for $500, put gas in and go to you minimum wage job. If the cheapest EV is $30K and only lasts 3 years before it needs a $20k battery replacement that will devastate the poorest members of society more than anyone seems to realize or care.

>>63400 There are people rebuilding battery packs, but auto makers mainly Tesla don't really want you to rebuild them so they add tech to make your car throw a bitch fit whenever you do. I know there are some people figuring ways around that but there relegated to ev forums, not your local mechanic. Really the big question for me is what happens when you have a ford or a dodge that's making EVs. Their customer base is completely different than Tesla's. Ford right now seems to be a mixed bag with mustang ev parts being hard to get, but having a crate motor and inverter for your project cars. Dodge is betting big on there EVs being affordable and winning ICE fans over to there muscle car halo products, but none of that is real yet so ask John titor about that. Both of those companies are at least on paper way more sensitive to the idea that people ain't going to pay 20k for a battery pack on a 5k car. So they are going to have to offer some type of option for the dealer to rebuild packs.

>>63400 >nooo not much heckin' gas First of all, despite what he and the media would like you to believe, Elon Muskrat didn't invent electric cars. In fact, they actually existed as alternatives to the first gas cars but the gas cars won out. Second of all, cars improved in mileage and speed from the 1920s to the 1980s, all without computers. Why couldn't that trend have continued?

>>63403 >There are people rebuilding battery packs That's interesting. >winning ICE fans over to there muscle car halo products Yeah I've seen those electric mustangs. Absolute fuarrrking crime against nature that they are. This makes sense though now that I think about it muscle cars are all about going fast in a straight line. Burgers don't believe in corners apparently. The electric 911 will be a fuarrrking disaster though. The idea of an electric sports car is still nothing but a delusion due to weight and heating issues. Never forget a 1985 BMW beat 2 Teslas around a real race track https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times#Production/street-legal

>>63404 Insane safety and emissions and NVH regulation make it so the 40mpg cars of the 80s are impossible without costing a ton for computer systems

Cars are pioneering a god-awful IoT future where you have to pay subscriptions for everything and not own anything. There will come a time where you have to jailbreak your refrigerator just so you don't have to continuously pay to use it.

>>63409 >Cars are pioneering a god-awful IoT future where you have to pay subscriptions for everything and not own anything. There will come a time where you have to jailbreak your refrigerator just so you don't have to continuously pay to use it. Only if we let governments regulate it that way.

>>63407 And it all goes in service so people can pay even less attention to driving and get into more accidents. Maybe people should just be forced to accept that driving is inherently dangerous and always will be rather than crippling the car industry so an idiot glued to their phone won't die

>>63411 >neurosuggesting that the government would listen to its citizens

The 99%: >HOOORAY! ALL HAIL BIG GOVERNMENT AND BIG CORPORATIONS! MODERN CARS WITH TECHNOLOGY AND TOUCHSCREENS GOOD!

>>63406 >>There are people rebuilding battery packs >That's interesting. Figure I should at least back up what I'm saying. There are a couple hackaday articles about it that offer some insight about it. https://hackaday.com/2021/07/16/repair-hack-saves-tesla-owner-from-massive-bill/ The Electrified Garage on there website at least advertises that they can upgrade batteries and if you dig further you'll find more. >winning ICE fans over to there muscle car halo products >Yeah I've seen those electric mustangs. Absolute fuarrrking crime against nature that they are. This makes sense though now that I think about it muscle cars are all about going fast in a straight line. Burgers don't believe in corners apparently. When I was Andorra recently I saw like a 2018 mustang there and it just seemed to be a tragic place for it. American highways especially in the Midwest tend to be very open and straight. If you have a European style of car they tend to feel very under powered and kinda finicky because of the shorter wheel bases. I'm basing this off my experiences with a Chevy spark (not truly an EU car but similar enough that I think it's indicative of the problem euro hatchbacks have) and a Mercedes smart car. Also USA cities work better for car than EU cities because they're designed for them. Most US cities will have an interstate that leads right to the middle, most smaller cities are built around the interstate, and towns generally have a highway that's high-speed that let's you bypass all the urban driving. All this to say burgers like the muscle cars for a reason. >The electric 911 will be a fuarrrking disaster though. I thought Porsche had an electric taycon that was pretty well reviewed. Really don't know anything about Porsches they are kinda against my vibe. Just to add to the thread here, has anyone ever dug into The cat hackers handbook. https://nostarch.com/carhacking https://hackaday.com/2020/12/10/remoticon-video-learn-how-to-hack-a-car-with-amith-reddy/ It seems a bit reddity but has some good info in there.

>>63400 >cars are designed to be modular. Look at the fuses in your owners manual. Most of those represent subsystems you can turn off This is fascinating, I am in the market for a car, and will definitely ask about this. >EVs are a big problem >needs a $20k battery replacement >will devastate the poorest members of society Electric vehicles are a scam. Elon's companies depend on government handouts to survive, and the EV industry is heavily subsidized in general, same with solar and wind. The issue is, as always, a parasitic club of politicians and their corporate friends, whom create an industry out of thin air without regard to long term consequences, justifying it with the green ideology. Tomorrow, a different ideology will justify another massive undertake nobody needs, but which they will heavily profit from. I just hope used lithium batteries can be recycled or disposed off without harm to the environment. I for one, do not welcome our international copro banker parasite overlords.

>>63438 Not a car person, is it possible to deal with the pollution issue without making electric vehicles a scam? I, for one, prefer not to have my lungs filled up with soot.

>>63404 >Elon Muskrat didn't invent electric cars Isn't his biggest accomplishment making electric cars a viable affordable (relatively) option. It's not like making an electric car is easy. You still see other manufacturers failing with batteries and soykaf. Tesla isn't perfect either but isn't it the best on the market still?

>>63403 https://electrek.co/2022/07/26/tesla-ransom-customer-over-80-miles-battery-range/ https://electrek.co/2021/12/01/tesla-guilty-throttling-charging-speed-pay-owners-retrial/ Yeah reminder that tesla will do everything they can to not let you own your car

why are people trying to take my only joy on this Earth away from me? I want real cars. I want simple cars

>>63409 I guess the only things we can hope for as consumers is to keep our old technology running as long as possible, which should be pretty easy since most of the cars I see on the road in my soykafhole city are from the late 90s to the mid 2000s.

While the usage of technology on cars could have some potentional, it has been been used for DRM, tracking and general useless things, currently I reccomend using cars that don't that extensive technology on them

I want an EV that has the spirit of an "old car", ones with as few computers in them as possible that somehow still run perfectly fine after decades of use. Doubt it'll happen, but the idea of just plugging in my car to charge overnight and never worrying about having to optimally time buying dino juice is alluring.

>>63555 Don't let them, lainon. I drive a car from the mid-90s and I wouldn't have it any other way. I know it ass to front and I can do anything required on it short of resurfacing the heads myself. They can pry my straight 6 from my cold, dead hands. Learn to turn a wrench and the world of craigslist hoopties is yours to conquer.

>>63584 The day will come that you can no longer find parts for it though.

>>63584 It can't last forever. Imagine daily driving a car from the 50s in 2022. These cars are old man. And even then that means at best cars as a hobby dies with me. It's sad.

Brevity is the soul of wit. This is not taken into account in the manufacture of new cars. I think we have grown really accustomed to certain luxuries that have changed the demand. Like if you drive a slightly older car, you can kiss AC, powered seats, backupcameras, bluetooth, heated seats, as well as many nannies to make sure you drive safe goodbye. There are also certain design ideals that have changed due to 'safety' features, like fish eye mirrors and backupcams becoming standards. No longer do people need to see what's going on around them. When I get into a newer car I'm amazed at how little I can see, and I don't have any idea how to deal with a backup camera, it's worthless to me but they're not designed anymore so that I can just turn my neck to see. Stuff like ABS has also conditioned people to be less careful I think. No longer do you have to know how to deal with rough driving conditions, because you have a computer to handle breaking for you. That and nowadays plastic cars crumple when they crash, protecting the driver perhaps, but people have no sense of danger anymore. They can get away with driving poorly. How the bottom line cars went from 20 years ago not even having AC, to now having heated seats, IDK, but it's made things much more complicated and expensive. I think another part of the problem is that we've shifted away from fiscal responsibility, it wasn't that long ago, at least in the US, that when you bought a car it meant you gave money you had in exchange for a car. It's now become the standard that you take a loan and make payments, allowing you to spend more, and I think this is a big part of why we can fill them with expensive BS for the sake of luxury. People forgot how to buy within their means. This means that since the average person is buying outside their means they have become accustomed to luxuries they wouldn't otherwise afford, and design has changed to meet the new market system. Why in the world cars are so ugly now is a hard question. I respect the fact that many cars of old were bizarrely ugly. But the beauty that many older cars had has been entirely lost. My guess is that people actually like disgusting blobs otherwise they wouldn't buy them? Or perhaps with the increase in car loans leads to people with no taste having more control of the market? That and increased government regulation also makes them more retarded.

>>63578 i think the only option is a backyard ev conversion

honestly i think an electric car future is probably going to be better for modification than if we stay with ICE indefinitely. cars are going to become more computer-controlled than they already are, and your ability to interface with that computer is going to come down to the manufacturer lobby vs the repair lobby. in some places, the repair lobby will probably win (theyre doing well in my state, for instance) but in others the manufacturers will have near total control. this is all true regardless of whether we end up with electric cars. however, electric cars have the advantage of being simpler than ICE cars. currently there is a small market for aftermarket ECUs, but the complexity of modern engines means theyre generally quite limited in which engines they can support and what they can actually do. with electric motors, on the other hand, i see a real possibility for aftermarket controllers even if manufacturers manage to lock everything down. perhaps there are countries where they could get all modofications derezzed, but in the united states antitrust law is such that this would be much more difficult to accomplish than simply relying on the infeasibility of reverse engineering something as complicated as a modern engine controller, as they are doing now.

It makes me very angry how much of modern vehicles run on gigantic pieces of totally unaccountable proprietary software with a connection to wireless networks, and it's one of the main reasons I'm trying to learn car maintenance skills to make my junker last longer. It makes me especially mad that one has to put up with this absolute bullshit if they want the latest in energy efficient transport.

Reminder this technology has now enabled a world where someone can take control of your car. A car, a massive piece of heavy machinery and one of the most dangerous things people interact with on a daily basis; road vehicle accidents remain the 3rd or 4th leading cause of death in the United States. Someone can take control of your road vehicle and drive you into a tree. It's an astounding level of danger that Silicon Valley has been exposing people to in their attempt to turn vehicles into another Thing in the Internet of Things. Never forget Michael Hastings.

>>63769 >Never forget Michael Hastings. Why was he killed?

>>63747 Is it possible to make an electric car without an ecu/minimal one on your own using an old car as a base? i wouldn't dislike all this stuff so much if i didnt have to accept all this awful soykaf along with EV in cars. I hate modern car interiors. I hate all the stuff they put in them

>>63772 >without an MCU Almost certainly not, it would be a massive feat of engineering to build an electrical vehicle that doesn't explode without using a microcontroller. >minimal one on your own using an old car as a base? Possibly. It might be hard to get it registered depending where you live. It would be an expensive and time-consuming project at the very least.

it all just feels so helpless. the decisions made for these things are so high up and have so much momentum. at least there are things you can do for your personal computing. for cars? no

>>63432 >I thought Porsche had an electric taycon that was pretty well reviewed. It's a 2.5 ton 4 door saloon Tesla clone. Not a sports car by any stretch of the imagination. >Really don't know anything about Porsches they are kinda against my vibe. You'll see what I mean in 2025 when Chevrolet has finished packing 2 tons of batteries into a Corvette body and tries selling it. >>63450 >is it possible to deal with the pollution issue without making electric vehicles a scam? Hydrogen cars are also a thing. They don't take 2 hours to recharge and nothing comes out of the tailpipe except water vapor. And there's no compromise in driving experience, Aston Martin even raced one against gasoline cars once. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Rapide#Motorsports >>63773 >without an MCU To be fair what you really want is an MCU that's not soldered to a long range radio calling home and pulling down "updates" in the middle of the night.

fuarrrk c*rs ride bikes >>63390 >What does the average Lain here think of the increasing radical encroachment of technology on cars? If by "radical encroachment of technology on cars" you mean... >30 years ago you could go for a drive and have not a single processor in reach My 31 year old car has a brick beneath the passenger carpet that reports faults. It's handy. Computers that automate things like windshield wipers, headlights, and climate control are usually nice; computers that help the owner monitor and control the car are plain good. >Now every facet of how you use the vehicle can be tracked by the manufacturer and other agents. Surveillance is like kicking dead whales down the beach yeah >A big stink is made of right to repair for computers but nobody seems to care about cars Car guys are a minority, but they care a whole lot about that stuff. >Manufacturers are making cars that can it possibly stand to the test of time in the way older cars did Survivorship bias. Modern cars are plenty reliable. Some are built wrong on purpose as a joke, but that isn't new. good video btw >>63400 Have you checked the used market lately? The only ≤$500 car in my area is a Neon with transmission problems. >3 years >$20K battery replacement Tesla batteries are warrantied for 70% capacity after 8 years or 100K miles and beat that in real world tests. $20K for a battery replacement is punishment for buying a Tesla; other manufacturers and third parties charge around $5K, and you can always just keep driving on 70%. Not cheap, but hardly totals the car. >>64081 If anyone reads this and wonders why hydrogen isn't more popular: hydrogen fuel cells are significantly more complicated and less efficient than electric batteries, and they can't refuel from existing wall sockets. They have found niche applications and might catch on in consumer vehicles later this century.

>>63450 No, cars have been a scam since the Model T.

>>64087 It's not about reliability it's about repairability. It's not about survivorship bias at all

>>64087 ive been interested in bikes for a while but it's all so expensive. it requires it's own license and coursework and then you need expensive protective equipment and of course the cost of the bike itself plus insurance and maintenance it's comparable to a car at that point

>>64096 That makes way more sense. >>64097 Where I live, all you need to do is take a written and in-person test, and you're licensed. New gear and a used bike are $4-5K, so about as much as a used car, but after that, Progressive insurance is less than $150 annually, and maintenance is cheap and easy if you buy something plain. Take the MSF course. It's $250 bucks. If you like it, the in-person license test is waived, and if you don't, now you know.

>>64087 >fuarrrk c*rs ride bikes I prefer my organs to be inside my body. >Have you checked the used market lately? The only ≤$500 car in my area is a Neon with transmission problems. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?postcode=sw1a1aa&radius=1500&price-to=500 There are some for less than 500. Between 500-1000 monetary units might be more realistic in current year. >you can always just keep driving on 70% That's not the same thing as a $500 car that pops out of 2nd gear. Range and performance will make the car unusable long before 0%. And the degradation is not linear, even if the marketing is accurate and it takes 8 years to go from 100-70, it will take much less to go from 70-40 because the fewer working cells are left the more you are hammering them through use. Like how an oil leak can take a year to go from 100-50 but then a week to go from 50-0.

>>63400 >>64087 >>64101 tesla battery degradation stats https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration

Future of mass transport for most of society imo will be more trains and buses and personal light electric/manual vehicles like bikes and scooters for short range transport, you step off the train and unfold your ebike kind of thing. >>64087 I rode a bike for about a year in all weather and while it was fun it wasn't much more practical than just riding the bus and walking, especially in Winter when the roads started to ice up. Bikes are fun toys/part time commuting machines for good weather, I guess if you live on the equator or something you can use them year round. Being super careful and also freezing riding a naked bike 40 mins at 60mpg in Northern Europe in February to work then trying to get changed into work attire before I died of heat stroke once I stopped made me appreciate the concept of a sealed cabin. >>64097 Biking imo has a very high buy in cost but is relatively cheap once you're in the hobby, or as cheap as anything that involves keeping a motor vehicle on the road can be. Biggest getting over it point is getting the gear together, once you've got that a decent bike is like 1-5k depending on what you want, my insurance + first bike was less than the cost of one year of insurance on my first car, a little 125 15bhp soykafbike, 100mpg and would do 75mph

>>64109 There is so much money and politics mixed up with pushing EVs I don't know how you can get any reliable information. Even the owners themselves are probably not going to admit they are dumbasses who blew $80.000 on a product that is anything less than amazing in every way. Especially if they're still depending on Tesla to honor some kind of warranty.

>>64113 *60mph >>64114 EVs are a sticking plaster on a gunshot wound for most of the real macro problems with cars, but the technology itself is actually getting pretty good. There's a soykafbox replacement coming out next year that will net you 70-150 free miles of driving from sun power and has a 210 mile range. Right now EV's are kind of in the position ICE cars were in the 1910's and early 1920's, no longer really a novelty, but not good enough to be the truly obvious stock choice in most situations, give it ten years and there will be ubiquitous options aimed at the actual normal person car buyer Personally I would prefer not to have to have a car or at least not to have to use one everyday as I do currently, EV doesn't really address most of my issues with car ownership but it is slightly less bad.

I am having my passion taken away from me and eroded and everyone around me is cheering. The average Lain here probably supports this soykaf too. It's just miserable. Cars have been politicised and murdered. It was bad enough when everyone around you straight up failed to understand how you could possibly like cars. Now they actively want your cars taken away and you in jail. Everyone who is vaguely into cars is lumped together regardless of criminal status or nuance. People just keep fuarrrking ignoring that these tiny personal vehicles are not the main cause of pollution. We had efficient cars decades ago but they were all killed. Now they're replaced by far heavier less efficient cars that are drowning in computers and are completely soulless to drive. These out of control governments and regulations have completely stranglehold the car companies. It's fuarrrking over

>>64437 >It was bad enough when everyone around you straight up failed to understand how you could possibly like cars. Now they actively want your cars taken away and you in jail. Hahahaha why do you hang out with twitter users? Liking cars is totally normal everywhere I've ever lived, including San Francisco.

>>64437 >People just keep fuarrrking ignoring that these tiny personal vehicles are not the main cause of pollution. If you live in any sort of big city, they sure as hell are.

>>64441 I'm sure. >>64445 It's always the logistics Industry not us. They've been choking cars for decade but only RECENTLY have paid lip service to the actual sources of pollution which have been totally unregulated

what do people like about cars?

>>64785 It's just another form of consumerism. You get told cars are cool when you're young and you don't question it, just follow the norms pushed on you and say you like cars too. I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone who like cars, but almost certainly to the majority.

>>64785 you can go places without walking or being around smelly people, anywhere you want any time you like only being restricted by how much money you can spend on fuel, its the ultimate freedom.

>>64785 I like the fact that I can use them to get to many places that are impractical to get to by other means.

>>64788 >the ultimate freedom is the freedom to avoid physical activity and The Poors. >you literally have to get permission from the government to drive it in a public place Very freedumb

>>64788 >its the ultimate freedom. i'd say that one should actually go the bicycle. you don't need any fuel to go anywhere, they're easy to repair with simple parts and you don't need permission from anyone to drive it around.

>>64785 Some of them are beautiful, in a purely aesthetic way. The feeling of speed and direction controlled directly by your will through hands and feet is also very addictive. And driving a nice ICE car (with its noise and vibrations) can be a quite an emotional affair.

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to cars, so do correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be enough to remove the antenna to completely stop all radio transmissions, even in newer cars? That way, there wouldn't be any problem, privacy-wise. Then the car's ECU and its closed-source firmware would only handle the car's normal functions, I suppose.

>>64785 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS17_vXhV-g If you don't like cars they're just not for you, and that's fine. For me cars are toys I like to play with.

>>64797 if you mean the big antenna you see on the outside then no that wouldnt work there's a lot of little antennas. You've seen cellphones these days ? Think antennas like that, and easily quite a few more than one of them.

>>64786 This is a very immature post. It's just being disrespectful to someone's hobby.

I'm very concerned about how this is affecting other vehicles like farm tractors. It's bad enough that the DIY farmer with a toolbox fixing his own machine when it develops a kink will soon be obsolete. Some of the more paranoid views on this are pretty hair raising, if there is any truth to them. Proprietary farm equipment with a command center that will have the capacity and legal right to completely disable any machine long distance if there is a hint of tinkering? Imagine if the codes for these commands fell into the wrong hands, they could hold huge swaths of our agricultural system hostage like they already have done with hospitals. Look up: > john deere right to repair ..to get a notion of what I'm on about.

>>64816 That (john deere's killswitches being in the hand of an adverserial nation leading to the remote disabling of equipment) happend a few months ago. They had to use the right to repair activists hack to get them working again. Without taking a moral stance about the actual situation, a machine shouldn't be allowed to disobey it's operator. Especially when the technology in question is critical for survival.

>>64785 They are fun to drive. They make cool noises. They are nice to look at. They are interesting to work on and modify. There is a lot of automotive history etc. At the end of a day its like any other hobby.

>>63390 yeah i dont like cars. i can describe the reason in this reply , but im too fuarrrking lazy to type long words now. i guess you read Ted's manifest and thats literally why i dont like cars even though I need one to live in this soykafty -- anyway what is soykafty really mean -- modern society. However, i don't have to get a car currently because I can get into corp through walking around 40min ~ 1hour. Anyway, if i face a situation that I must buy a car, then im gonna buy a used one which maybe normal people think it is such old that doesnt contain useless -- guess not really useless for most people. -- features.

>>64820 >Without taking a moral stance about the actual situation, a machine shouldn't be allowed to disobey it's operator Well anyone who has ever used a fartsmoan or windows 10 knows that Prof. Asimov was an idealist and there never were any Three Laws to begin with. This is our food supply we are talking about though.

Is it weird to like car and want to enjoy driving them. While also very much disliking modern car design. But also desiring walkable cities and an ability to go wherever I want with no car at all? When is as a kid I felt trapped in my hope because I had no options for transportation. It's very depressing. I hate the modern cities that have been made.

>>64879 That's basically how I feel I like driving for fun, I hate 95% of the driving I actually do because its boring, frustrating, mandatory soykaf that would be better served by a light tram (that my city had 110 years ago but they ripped out to pave the roads for cars) or efficient buses. fuarrrk sitting in traffic stressed out because I'm having to pilot a 1.5 ton vehicle on a Monday morning surrounded by other sleep deprived half awake people, my Grandfather was able to sleep or read while going to work, why can't I? The other 5% is all stuff that's done because I want to do it, not because I have to, cars are great, as leisure devices for enthusiasts and working transport for people that live in sparsely populated rural areas, a person living in a properly ran 1st world country shouldn't *need* to own one unless they live in the middle of nowhere. If I didn't have to drive to get to work I would probably only actually do about 200 miles a month, mostly for driving out to go hiking. We had efficient railway transport to the national park 100 years ago as well...

Electric cars had a chance to phase in and become cheaper and more efficient but hybrid cars never phased in like it should and now the US suddenly expects everyone to transition. As for computers in cars I don't want anyone be it hackers or glowies to disable my car for any reason or some jerk off to have an easier time unlocking my car remotely to steal it. Having a tablet on my car seems to be a feature no one really asked for but quickly became a standard feature in cars. Despite all that driving is like kicking dead whales down the beach and I need to no matter what due to lower class suburban living.

>>64068 this is how i've felt about it for years and years. what are we looking at here for solutions though? i've decided that i just need to learn to work on cars myself, so that i stand a better chance at resistance in the future. i bought a motorcycle a few seasons back, and have been doing the maintenance on it. that transitioned to doing some maintenance on my car. researching simple things like cleaning carburetors and changing oil easily lead to information on every other aspect of how bikes/cars/engines work. then i went and did those simple things and saw all my research in practice. it's been a valuable and fast way of learning. my long term plan is to keep doing more things myself. hopefully building a skillset i can use to at least buy my way into my old car working. any other ideas? i will go back to monkey before i start driving motorvehicle-as-a-service products. then again, maybe that's for the better anyway.

>>64788 >It's the ultimate freedom* *driving lessons, car purchase, insurance, repairs/servicing, road tax, parking fees, tolls, fines, car washing, AA subscription, misc. things like antifreeze. In the UK, people on average spend £3500 a year to have a car. A bicycle is the real ultimate freedom.

>>65301 this is because the UK has decided to ruin the lives of car owners and vice down on the freedoms of average citizens, not anything inherent to cars. If their government wanted to, next year they could oblige bikers to make insurance payments and take lessons and certify and recertify year after year costing about the same. Does that make rollerblades the ultimate freedom?

>>65302 The reason why people go along with the restrictions in car ownership but wouldnt on bicycles is that cars are inherently more dangerous than bicycles. They are less maneuverable, heavier, and travel at significantly higher speed.

>>65304 are you telling me that brits, the people who gave up most of their firearms years ago, who pay for licenses to listen to the radio, who think its alright to disallow the sale of dangerous weapons like screwdrivers to people under 18 and hold serious discussions about whether or not it is legal for someone to go around carrying a butter knife without good reason (not to mention most multi tools which they consent are definitly not alright), would draw a line in the sand and stick by it if it was decided that bicyclists should have to get licensed ? In order to make a more plausible argument for why they might, biking is fairly dangerous especially for riders, generally more dangerous than public transit or even driving. In a country with nationalized health services, injuries sustained by bikers are the responsability of the state and its entierly fair for the state to expect such persons to pay an additional amount, and be subject to regulation, for their voluntarily undertaken risky behaviours.

>>65305 >biking is fairly dangerous especially for riders, generally more dangerous than public transit or even driving The #1 reason, by far, that bikes are dangerous for riders is because of cars. Your probability of getting seriously injured while riding a bike or being seriously injured by a bike rider, excluding car accidents, is really low compared to the same probabilities while driving a car, even normalizing for frequency of such accidents.

>>65307 >The #1 reason, by far, that bikes are dangerous for riders is because of cars. so what, number one reason screwdrivers are dangerous is foreign aliens. UK solution ? regulate the screwdrivers ! Its insane I agree with you but I certainly wouldn't call it inconcievable for such laws to come about.

>>65308 point being: regulatory frustrations at maintaining a useful car are not car problems they're government problems. Just because your government doesn't want you to have nice things doesn't mean they're not nice.

>>65309 Sure, I agree with that. Most of the price of car ownership comes from gasoline, maintenance, and repair though.

>>65301 >people on average spend £3500 a year to have a car. >things like antifreeze >A bicycle is the real ultimate freedom You've obviously never owned a car. You are literally the fox and grapes meme. insurance>fuel>tax>maintenance are the biggest expenses if you want to sound like you have a clue in the future >>64790 >the ultimate freedom is the freedom to avoid physical activity and The Poors. If you weren't such a privileged middle class larp you would know that owning a car can be much cheaper than living anywhere near a trainstation. (Average cost gives you no information about where the bottom is). >>64790 >Very freedumb It's not a joke. When the country was locked down and public transport suspended I could still drive 100s of miles to see my family. If there is a real emergency like a coup or war or natural disaster you're going to wish you had more than a bicycle.

>>65329 >If there is a real emergency like a coup or war or natural disaster There was a real emergency this year in Ukraine and trains were by far the fastest/safest way to gtfo.

>>65329 >you would know that owning a car can be much cheaper than living anywhere near a trainstation. I make barely enough to sustain myself and I live near the bus main lines in a soykafhole apartment. I cannot afford a car and there are no passenger trains in my city. I wish they would build some. Maybe stop projecting. >If there is a real emergency like a coup or war or natural disaster you're going to wish you had more than a bicycle. Indeed I will, but its not worth going in to debt for that.

This thread seems to be getting off the rails here, talking about collapsing governments and wars sa opposed to 'what does the average lain think about encroachment of [computer] technology on cars'? fortunately cars aren't like trains and can more easily pull themselves back on their roads in such circumstances as this, why don't we do so? on the topic of freedom, there clearly is some risk that this shall be lost by such mass encroachment. Cars that are connected to the internet have the vulnerabilities the internet carries with it, seems dangerous to let this happen. I don't really even like the electronic keys that have become ubiquitous, though I get the impression security in such systems has improved somewhat in the last ten years or so. Are there brands of cars that are still making relatively uncomputerized cars out there ?

>>65335 >>65335 They are very specialist and expensive. More toys than basic transportation. They still use tech when possible too. The lower levels of tech is more of a byproduct than a goal for many of these types of cars

>>65329 cars really are quite expensive to maintain, insurance in particular is ridiculously expensive where I live, owning a car is probably #2 on the list of expenses for most people after rent. Yeah you can do your own maintenance if you're mechanically minded but that's quite a undertaking Motorcycles are quite simple to work on in comparison and a whole lot cheaper, not sure why there's such a debate over car vs bicycle when you can have the best of both worlds. Plus, motorcycles aren't gonna have any processors or other Gubbins, it'll last about as long as you wanna maintain it for

>>65355 Unfortunately motorcycles are quite dangerous and they cannot match the cargo capacity of a car or truck.

>>65355 Motorcycles require expensive equipment and an additional license most people do not have

Ive been painfully having to try and find a suitable mode of transport that suits me to no avail. Cars make no sense to me in design. Too wide to sense it's boundaries with ease, no centre drive position so it's uneven sense of boundaries, gas and brake are seporate mechanisms usually but normal motorcycles are bad for rainy or icey road conditions so they cant be a full a substitute. So ive been looking at things like recumbant ebikes, three wheeled motorcycles (but not traditional trikes as they flip on hard turns), autocycles and gyroscopic stabalized motorcycles. But all those are either too slow limiting where i can use them, too expensive, never went into production, or are only available in certain countries or California while other side of the country. Plus as alone as I am while single seat is fine id prefer room for someone to ride with me if i needed to pick anyone up ever if i met anyone. But then there is question the lifespan of such things. From looks of things I question if I will ever be able to drive.

>>65540 >Are you denying the fact that rent increases exponentially within walking/cycling distance of trainstations? I deny that there is a causative link between the two. Do you have hard data? What about in countries with very well-developed passenger rail networks like Japan? >"Just build more trainstations" will only make more places unaffordable to live in. And increase taxes/inflation since building soykaf isn't free. Parking in a city center is much much more expensive than a couple dozen dollars bump in your taxes or a year-round train pass. It's also more of a pain in the ass.

>>65540 >Are you denying the fact that rent increases exponentially within walking/cycling distance of trainstations? "Just build more trainstations" will only make more places unaffordable to live in. And increase taxes/inflation since building soykaf isn't free. It's weird that people really like living near rail links and are willing to pay extra for the privilege, Its almost like public transport is good and people willingly pay more to be near train stations. Do you think the landlord directly pays a bill to big train for the privilege of having property near their infrastructure or do they set the rent higher because they know people will pay it to benefit from a convenience they would not otherwise have? Now if you have high demand and low supply, prices are high, what happens if you increase supply but demand stays the same? Do prices go up or down when the good or service in question is more available and less exclusive? >Landlord charges 10x to live in a house with running water versus one without running water >Surely we shouldn't plumb the rest of the city, rents will skyrocket forever, look its 10 times the price to live somewhere with water versus somewhere without now, how bad is it going to be when everywhere has it, its not exclusive anymore and there are no cheap water free homes on the market? >Taxes go up Oh no everyone pays $20 a year more tax for access to public transit, safer streets and massively improved air quality from fewer motor vehicles on the road, how awful, I should have the opportunity to be forced to own a car and pay tax and insurance on that instead, before I can even have the opportunity to pay for fuel and maintenance

>>65621 >Do you think the landlord directly pays a bill to big train for the privilege of having property near their infrastructure this is sometimes how such infrastructure gets paid for, I dunno about train stations but definitly for some road pavings. but otherwise yes, rents go as desierability does to some degree. if (some/enough) people are willing to pay extra to live by a train, land near trains gets priceyer. Personally I'm more likely to go for the place thats far from the train station but has a garage though lol. Not everyone cares about either of these features but enough do that both merit a certain extra cost. And for the record I'm happy that there do exist houses available without water and I think there's nothing at all wrong with that, for the right price and in the right location otherwise I'd consider getting one myself.

>>65644 Aren't modern cars still not a problem privacy-wise if you don't use those features? Don't they require a phone technically? But I might very wrong.

>>65621 >Its almost like public transport is good and people willingly pay more to be near train stations. Or there is a premium on having more options. Especially since there is a single fixed location most people travel to 5 days a week. >Do you think the landlord directly pays a bill to big train for the privilege No the cost gets externalized to the rest of society through taxes and inflation. >Oh no everyone pays $20 a year more tax for access to public transit Yes I know everything is basically free when the government does it so just vote for more deficit spending and then blame "corporate greed" when the economy falls apart. >safer streets and massively improved air quality You hate living in the city but you can't move to the country because public transport only works in densely populated areas. So you want to redesign cities around your personal preferences because you are king of the world or something. Many such cases. >I should have the opportunity to be forced to own a car and pay tax and insurance on that instead, before I can even have the opportunity to pay for fuel and maintenance Forcing everyone else in the country to pay for your new local transtation through taxes and inflation is not the moral highroad you think it is. >>65644 >the only identifying information would then be the license plate, Depending on your region you may not be able to (legally) get away from tpms either https://www.networkworld.com/article/2231495/defcon---hacking-tire-pressure-monitors-remotely.html >cheap Your biggest expense as a new driver will be insurance. The industry works on heuristics i.e. 20% of people driving car X have crashed therefor put higher rate on car X. So avoid yobo cars like Golfs, Subarus, Clios etc. Basically any car you see being driven on 2 wheels by a teenage glitterboy will have higher insurance just because it is popular with teenage glitterboys. The other thing is gender. Males are more likely to crash in big expensive ways. If you can legally change your gender in your country that is a potential hack. >>65766 >Aren't modern cars still not a problem privacy-wise if you don't use those features? Don't they require a phone technically? Cars can have the modems built into them. Just because you didn't pay the subscription doesn't mean they don't phone home and get "updates". Even if you are not against all these internet connected cars on principle they are a security disaster at the moment. >Earlier this year, we were able to remotely unlock, start, locate, flash, and honk any remotely connected Honda, Nissan, Infiniti, and Acura vehicles, completely unauthorized, knowing only the VIN number of the car. https://nitter.net/samwcyo/status/1597792097175674880

Some other sources: http://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=7&pid=462&year=2019 https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-cars.en.html https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=q-yMRt6f1XQ The guy in the video above managed to successfully remove the cell modem in his car. Whether this can be easily done in other cars, I do not know. If you guys have got a modern car yourselves, you should give it a try!

>>65807 >Nonfree software is controlled by its developers, which puts them in a position of power over the users; that is the basic injustice. Has GNU always been this ridiculous. The real problem is that you've bought a thing, it is your property, yet the vendor uses backdoored software to make changes against your will. Tesla pushing a OTA update to nerf the battery performance is wrong for the same reason that breaking into your garage overnight and monkeying around with a spanner would be wrong. The car is your property and you didn't give them permission to fuarrrk with it.

>>65818 >The car is your property and you didn't give them permission to fuarrrk with it. Technically, when you bought it you probably did sign a contract saying that they could do that. If you bought your Tesla secondhand that's a different story. I wouldn't be surprised if car manufacturers didn't eventually try to make "car ownership as a service" a thing.

>>65819 I'm just saying the commies at GNU don't need to pull a whole new ethical framework out of their asses just because it's The Cybers. Property rights are property rights. >Technically, when you bought it you probably did sign a contract saying that they could do that. Probably. Maybe there's also an implicit contract when you use a vendor's software you consent to remote updates. The expectation is that the updates won't be malicious though. Reminds me of that time Apple pushed an update to deliberately slow down older iPhones. The lawsuit has been filed but not heard yet by the looks of it. https://www.makeuseof.com/apple-faces-750m-lawsuit-throttling-iphones/

>>65818 >The real problem is that you've bought a thing, it is your property, yet the vendor uses backdoored software to make changes against your will. In other words, exactly a problem that stems from control by developers. Got any other stupendously dumb misinterpretations of the free software movement for us?

>>65876 >In other words, exactly a problem that stems from control by developers. In principle anyone can roll up to your house at night and make changes to your car. It might be easier and faster for the software developers to make unauthorized changes but that doesn't put them into a new category or change anything fundamental about the situation. >Got any other stupendously dumb misinterpretations of the free software movement for us? It's interesting you think the GNU project and free software movement are the same thing. Since you ask though, this is also fuarrrking retarded >Every nonfree program offers the user zero security against its developer. Malicious code is malicious regardless of what the license file says. Remember when Canonical added Amazon telemetry to Ubuntu. The spirit of Saint Richard* didn't magically block the bad GNU/packets from leaving your desktop with all your personal information did it. Open source just means it might be easier for the user to change the malicious parts. Maybe. * wait you cancelled RMS for thoughtcrimes a few years ago. Who do you worship now?

This entire thread makes me laugh In my opinion if your '''car hobby' '' is being ruined I say good Cars should be derezzed. Just rolling death machines that make everywhere a worse place to live

>>65878 >In principle anyone can roll up to your house at night and make changes to your car. That would be tresspassing, any civilized place it would be considered reasonable basis for killing them on the spot, even if they don't need to break into your garage to get at the car. But yes, sure, they can do it if they want to.

>>65876 US now requires remote kill switches in all new cars in 2026

if you buy automatic / remote hatch opening you're a moron. i hope you die

>>65329 nope, the guy you replied to was right, you're wrong cars are a hassle, due to glitterboys ruining them, as he listed get fuct

>>66931 This map is high speed national level railways only to make that clear, it doesn't include regional or in-town rail. Here is the mainline, so national and regional lines, no local trams, subway etc.

>>66932 high speed is a funny choice of words, Ive been on some of those lines and some are definitly pretty slow. personally I'm a big fan of banning cars. I think any travel at a speed greater than about 20 mph should be forbidden, as should engines stronger than the best ox in town.

>>63390 I would never buy a new car anyway unless I was rich. Used or certified pre-owned is the way to go

>>66935 you do know they have this sort of tracking/remote shutdown tech since the 2000s? it also doesnt help pretty much getting older model cars that arent broken down or near breaking down is hardly viable since they are declared classic or the parts for repairing these cars are no longer in production. Dont think it is impossible tho if the model of car you get it old and was really really popular in its day or if you get a foreign export car, not sure how expensive that is but i have seen a russian/eastern european car once that didnt fit inside standard parking space. it might be on par with costs given how much dealerships charge

fuarrrk cars. The ultimate sign of a normㅤie.

>>66959 Seriously. When you are on the road you are literally the man's bitch. You sign a paper saying they can pull you out of the car and draw blood from you whenever they feel like it. The pigs can do and say whatever they want, it doesn't matter if you were doing something 'wrong' or not, and if you refuse their jab they will still charge you anyway because that is the law now. fuarrrk cars. fuarrrk the police. And fuarrrk anything that lets these scumbags put you under their thumb. Ride a bike. My ebike can get up to 30mph and I have no need for a slavery-entailing hunk of metal in my life.

>>66974 Not only that but getting a driver license is like getting a degree nowadays and it's fuarrrking expensive. I'm getting one now to be safe but damn i wouldn't if I could go back. how I wish i lived in a place with decent fuarrrking public transport that does not end at 10:00 PM and does not only go to 1 part of the city. An ebike would be perfect but only for city users that do not require to drive outside. I guess the only soykafty middle ground for us country boys is a motorcicle.

>>66975 I don't live in a city and I get by just fine with an ebike. Granted, I'm not out in the sticks, but on a full charge a good ebike can go a respectable distance. Just waiting for 'the man' to turn ebikes into cars 2.0, because god forbid any one of us should have any sort of personal freedom. As it stands, states like new york have completely retarded laws that more or less allow them to pull you off the road whenever they feel like it since class 3 bikes are illegal and pretty much every ebike sold in the world falls under class 3 under new york's warped legislation. There is a special place in hell for people pushing legislation like this.

>>66995 I assume you live in the US, so you guys have it easy for now. From 2017, EuropoorTM must have a fuarrrking driver license and a license plate and a mandatory insurance to use an ebike that goes beyond 25 km/h (15 mph), or at least in my country it's like that. Lawmakers and their fuarrrking "good peaceful country for all" policies. PRESENT DAY, PRESENT TIME HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!

>>66933 I meant the map in my first post sorry, that's the high speed one One in post your replied to is the mainline and regional

Didn't read any of the soykaf above, but whatever As a person who drives a lot of cars for a living, I really dislike how everything is controlled by a central touchpad. It hardly feels safe to use in traffic. Whereas before you could change the radio station or turn the ac down a little by turning a knob, now you have to navigate the big tablet in the middle of the car. My problem is you can't do this by feel, as you can with traditional buttons, but you have to take your eyes of the road in order to operate the computer. Been driving a Tesla Model Something, and there isn't even a speedometer on the thing. It's all integrated in the central tablet. To turn parking lights on you have to navigate to a submenu in the settings, which in a normal car would be accessible by twisting a knob or button. Who thought having everything be controlled by touch screens - an interface that you have to look at to operate - would be a good choice for a vehicle where you're supposed to look at the direction you're driving in at all times in order to operate safely? The teslas (and EVs in general) drive like a dream though. The whole one-pedal-breaking thing is very comfy and leads to such comfortable driving when you get used to it

>>63555 The answer is in kit cars. There are some real top notch kits out there and you can use some old donor cars or box engines and you'll know where everything is when it needs fixin'. I'd do it already but my garage is full of someone else's junk and I can't toss it. What modern and consumer cars need is free software running them, or the ability for consumers to put their own free software on the cars. Regulators and the car industry would probably push back against that since they want to keep their botnet cars, but I think it's something the people could win with.

>A big stink is made about EVs but nobody seems to think about how disposable these cars are and how little care is given to longevity and repairability. Few days ago my country's news said how the average car on the roads was now over 15 years old, making it a record high. But more curiously they said it like it was a bad thing, as if we were all 'behind the times', as if it was some sort of competition on who can be the most 'modern'. It's fuarrrking bizarre to see people look at cars the same way as a phone or a laptop instead of something that should be reliable for decades.

>>65540 >Just because, for some reason, you trust the current government I don't trust car companies either though.

somewhat off topic, what do lainons think on making a car nomad tier and the prerequisites for any car to be considered viable? what are main difficulties in doing so besides the usual stigma?

I'd love for the day all driving licenses and mandatory insurances are replaced voluntary incentive-based certifications and voluntary insurance preferably through buyers clubs. It would help a lot of poorer people and prevent people from getting arrested cause their wallet got stolen and they needed to drive to the DMV for a new license. I also would like to see most gizmos like GPS removed from cars to drive down the price.

>>67763 Lainon, that's called being homeless.

>>67773 yea did mention stigma car insurance < rent

>>67770 >voluntary insurance What happens when someone without insurance damages someone else's car? The court system doesn't have the resources for filing lawsuits every incident, and even if they did it would be very inefficient and hellish for everyone involved.

>>67777 maybe he's guilty of some crime and liable for damages in the same way I would be if I set your house on fire.

>>67770 Is this a shoop? Any more pictures of that car if it's real?

>>63390 Please help me pick out a truck Budget: around 10K Ideal truck: Low gas mileage, bed for hunting moving dead elk deer whatever little to no computers. Im willing to remove to hack the ECM remove GPS or whatever im just not sure where to start there are so many options. PICREL is cool but too old gas guzzler would take ages and tons of money to find one and repair it. Thank you

>>64109 This article is from a car insurance company Get the fuarrrk out of here lmao

>>67820 >Ideal truck: Low gas mileage... little to no computers. Whatever truck you like best in your imagination, because that's the only place you're going to find one. The very best trucks of the late 90s-early 00s, which is also the only time period you're going to bring in anything under 10k (especially with minimal computerization), could manage maybe 18 combined MPG on the outside. When they were new. Probably more like 12-14 now at the absolute best and provided new parts. You might achieve a little more if you buy one old enough to be emissions exempt in your area and deleting the cat.

This seems to be a heated topic for many lainons. The only thing I'm interested in is seeing how the first fully autonomous vehicles work out in public. From the progress I've seen, the tech could be used right now in long distance trucks that simply drive from A to B on simple raods without much traffic. Truck drivers won't be losing their jobs anytime soon, but slowly replaced in that jobfield less people want to persue.

>>64113 >more trains and buses Don't forget trams. Trams are pretty much prefect.

>>67784 >Is this a shoop? It's actually a whole subculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itasha >>67777 >What happens when someone without insurance damages someone else's car? The court system doesn't have the resources I'm not one to defend a government policy but this is a significant point. Below a certain IQ (around 85?) people literally cannot comprehend hypotheticals. You say "what if you have an accident?" and they will say "but I didn't have an accident". You can't sell insurance to such people because it simply doesn't make sense to them. So yeah, what are you going to do when these mentally challenged individuals smash into ferraris and can't pay for it. You might argue it's better for humanity to let such people drop out of the gene pool but not everyone will agree. >>67009 >touchpads in cars is cancer Amen. >>67019 >kit cars and foss I like this person.

I absolutely detest digitalization of cars. You can literally just stick a smartphone on the console, there is no reason to have entertainment systems with touchscreens in cars other than making it cost more and obsolete quicker. Electric powertrain on the other hand has the potential to be much better than ICE if Hyundai's fuel cell approach is adopted instead of one-off batteries. Electric powertrains are much simpler in terms of moving parts and can theoretically be controlled with just a variable resistor while an electric motor gives instant torque and can simply be replaced with a random industrial generator in case it breaks.

One of the most noticeable aspects of the dystopian hellscape we're subjected to

>>68098 What's your alternative?

>>68100 not him, but in the united states and Im sure other countries slavery is legal as punishment for a crime. obviously some cars are very expensive and probably worth more than a random guy's life but still, if its all you can pay then maybe you should pay it.

>>67019 Hell yes. It's probably been said already but I don't think lainons are actually anti- computers in cars. I've got the same knee-jerk reaction as a lot of people in this thread but it would be different if the tech was open source and accessible to me if I wanted to hack on it. I can imagine a kind of unix philosophy (do one thing and do it well) applied to cars. Engines are good at turning explosions into usable energy, and bad at computation. Computers are terrible at making explosions happen, but very very good at calculating proportions of air and fuel, and also good at turning electrical signals into human-readable data I dunno, I know nothing about cars

>>67887 insurance corps are often actually motivated to know risks well. >>68102 >I doubt most here are actually anti computer in car, would like a free option While I do somewhat agree with this, I dont think there's such a driving need to put computers in everything. Keep it simple, stupid, is a generally good thing. Cars are borderline, there's ways they can benefit from computers, but many useless uses of computers in them that add little for what they cost, even if free software. >>67741 >It's fuarrrking bizarre to see people look at cars the same way as a phone or a laptop instead of something that should be reliable for decades. would kinda be nice if phones and laptops could work well for 15 years, too. Better comparison is milk. If average age of milk in your country is 15 years something is screwed up.

>>63604 i couldnt have said it better myself

>>63390 90% of silicon in modern vehicles is just pure cancer. Yeah adjusting fuel/air ratio for fuel/quality and backup cameras are great but that's it. The rest is ass. Current level of unnecessary complexity (>97') is just car-DRM dreamed up by manufacturers.

The real inform is to pick the most common cheap modern car you see around everyday and jump from one to the next when you feel its about to go bang. Owning an ancient basic soykafbox from 30+ years ago isn't viable unless you live in Afghanistan or some African country with a hot dry climate, it will rust to soykaf, parts will be difficult to source, iirc some modern countries also produce a different kind of petrol/diesel that will rape your oldschool engine unless you convert it, the dystopian overlords will tax you to death at every chance they get for driving it on "their" roads or even ban you from driving it all eventually. Also, I don't know why lainanons are complaining about the gadget-filled new cars, yeah they're soykaf but its not like they're handing them out to you for free

>>67009 >I really dislike how everything is controlled by a central touchpad. >Whereas before you could change the radio station or turn the ac down a little by turning a knob You know you can avoid going through all the menus via the buttons on the steering wheel or via the voice activated control system

>>74412 I never use cars so i dont know, but i presumed it was like the smart tv situation where it's effectively impossible to avoid having a botnet installed

>>63400 >mfw my car 2009. Those touch screens are utterly fuarrrked. Who would even want that in a car? Of course the answer is probably nobody but all megacorps are actually just one zio megacorp and they've decided >>65299 Based E7Bro