Metaverse

Cyberpunk Meta-verse thread. >Working From Orbit : VR Productivity In (or Above) a WFA World >https://blog.immersed.team/working-from-orbit-39bf95a6d385 >Hours working in V.R. >https://www.wired.com/story/hours-working-vr-tips/ >https://simulavr.com/ >Linux Developer Workstation in Virtual Reality A Variety of Developers are living the cyberpunk future by working in Virtual Reality and reading there experiences are some of the most cyberpunk things that I have ever read. The setup is apparently cheaper than multiple monitors and gives infinitely more flexibility in configuration. As a result of the cheapness of whats delivered, I think its extremely like that we will all be required to work/live in virtual reality in the future to save the elite money on funding things like parks/libraries/etc. Reality will probably be an economically cheap, efficient and poor imitation of the world we will come to inhabit. Anyway, are any lains computing in Virtual Reality. There was a 3D image board post that has perhaps an interesting application of virtual reality.

Wow look at ALL that productivity! doubl- triple your cpm (code per minute)! Instant communications!! facebook integration!!! this is the future of work everyone !!

https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2021/07/07/dont-make-me-think/

>>55862 >https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2021/07/07/dont-make-me-think/ Hilarious actually, but I am finding this has little do with Virtual Reality and is more a pean to a brave new world a lot of which is more about right-wing conspiracies. >French, 2029, The Conservative Case for State-Enforced Homosexuality.] Try convincing your wife to have a threesome and see if (>1 in 50 girls) are immune to cued bisexuality. >>55862 Also Revelvant - EFF's thoughts on METAVERSE >https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/virtual-worlds-real-people-human-rights-metaverse >https://www.eff.org/files/2021/12/09/virtual_worlds_real_people_1c.pdf Perhaps METAVERSE is wrong terminology - Virtual Reality needn't be connected to the internet, or surveillance capitalism at all. (>>55864), the Point of Virtual Reality Computing needn't be *productivity gains*, it could liberation from the environment around you. Imagine doing Pentests from orbit like case. I am not saying embrace Facebook - quite the opposite.

Cool, brah. I'm too excited to work in VR, this would boost my productivity tenfold!

>>55862 AHAHAHA metaverse is the most dystopian thing ive ever heard of: >2030 >the metaverse is implemented >too poor to afford real life. having a car, leaving your house, anything outside is only available to the rich now. >have to buy a Facebook (TM) Meta Rift (TM) googles to be part of society >sign up to join Faceverse (TM). face, retina, entire body scanned to join as your unique ID >your entire internet history, including porn searches, all imported during signup and now associated with your face, searchable by all advertisers in Faceverse. >get allocated a small starter room, have to acquire or buy Facecoins to get upgrades >all 4 walls of your starter room covered with Faceverse ads. "Upgrade your Faceverse account to remove 1 wall of ads" >fuarrrk it, cant afford that until posting on Whatsverse every day for 30 days and get a 2 week account upgrade, will just watch ads to accumulate Facecoin >"Ad watched and face scanned, please smile or frown to let the advertiser know your response to the ad, and 0.0001 additional Facecoins will be deposited in your account" >crack a forced smile underneath my Meta Rift googles >"Your smile appears fake, -5 Facecoins from your account for attempted advertiser fraud. This incident will be reported" >fuarrrk, 2 more incidents and I'm derezzed from the Faceverse, better practice genuine looking smiles >need to buy a meta computer to start learn programming in hopes of getting a better life >go to the Getasearch engine metapage, need Google coins to use it. >go to the local decentralized metacoin exchange through the centralized portal and centralized meta ATM >fuarrrk, exchange rate moved 5000% overnight, Google coin owners now rich and now I cant afford to use Getasearch until the exchange rate drops. >instead go to the local meta link broker to buy a link directory >link directory 3 years old and cost half my Facecoin, it will have to do >spend 2 hours searching through my newly purchased directory, find the link to a meta computer store >try to go to meta store. "Sorry, this store only takes Amazcoin" >try another store, buy a meta computer with my remaining Facecoin >don't have enough Facecoin to buy a link home, go to the nearby Face Ad Station (FAS) (TM) to watch ads for 4 hours to afford my link home >finally get home, plug in my meta computer, and start learning programming >3 years later, become export programmer, apply for tech jobs >"Sorry we don't accept meta applications, only physical ones. We also are desperate for talent but can't find any" >work in the Crypto Mines for the next 50 years in complete physical and meta poverty Get ready for it anons, this world of the future is being built today as we speak

>>55869 P2P VR might be a good idea. That would be the true metaverse.

>>55887 I think metaverse may be the wrong terminology. Its so associated with Facebook in your mind (rather than Snow Crash), that you are creating stories about surveillance. The photos above are about immersive virtual reality computing experiences, not about living in a corporate owned world (immersive V.R. or not). In fact, the photos and stories posted are about the experience of being in such an environment. Its not that use of such a platform doesn't represent privacy risks - just like smart phones and internet - it does, but the platform itself, Virtual Reality, doesn't even require internet. Its unfortunate that Facebook poisoned the word metaverse.

>>55887 >work in the Crypto Mines for the next 50 years in complete physical and meta poverty Imagine slaving away in your Pod, doing jumping jacks and whistling Ode to Joy so that picrel can be assigned to its rightful owner.

>>55889 Facebook is merely implementing the plot of Snow Crash. Do you think the depicted world isn't a horrible dystopia?

>>55891 Facebook isn't implementing the plot of Snow Crash. The METAVERSE of Snow Crash is something analogous to Gibson's Matrix - just 3D representations of some kind of network of computers that is immersive and humans 'enter'. Gibson is actually lite on the politics of ownership of the 'Matrix' but it seems to be something decentralized like our internet today - each entity has its own 'grid squares'. Stephenson's METAVERSE is relatively undetailed on the METAVERSE except to say that its something like WEB3 , you can own parts of it and cash out on them. Very little is said about how this is organized. No private company is mentioned as owning the METAVERSE and it seems that the metaverse is relatively interoperable and people are able to build components of it. Facebook no doubt wants to build an Appstore and surveillance platform around its Virtual Reality platform its calling 'metaverse'. The consequences of this are not even remotely considered in Stephenson novel. Neither Gibson nor Stephenson imagines their Virtual Reality as corporate owned surveillance platforms or AppStores - actually the opposite - the imagine them more like an internet of decentralized ownership were people can extend portions of it in an open way. This thread was not intended to be celebration of Facebook's surveillance but now in 3D - in fact, it explicitly called out a Linux Based Alternative. In fact, this thread was about the experience of Virtual Reality, specially computing in virtual reality not actually even about computer networking at all. Has facebook poisoned the name so much that we can't discuss virtual reality because we are unable to distinguish big 3D pictures from network surveillance?

>The result is a character count of 511x129 on my Main screen when writing code: 66,000 characters is a LOT of code, easily the equivalent of four to six typical IDE windows in width (and enough to show the entire text of this article 1½ times, all at once). (From your first link) This sounds like a nightmare. If your code is written in such a way that you need to have an entire article worth of code on screen, you don't need a bigger screen. You need to refactor. Reading small amounts of text in VR makes my eyes bleed. >I think its extremely like that we will all be required to work/live in virtual reality in the future Some work, sure, but I don't think it will be terribly widespread. We're not going to live in VR either. VR is going to supplement existence, not replace it.

>>55898 >This sounds like a nightmare. If your code is written in such a way that you need to have an entire article worth of code on screen, you don't need a bigger screen. You need to refactor. Reading small amounts of text in VR makes my eyes bleed. 100% agreement - I think this isn't the best metric for explaination of the screen size - I want to scroll the text through the blinder of a more reasonable screen size rather than read from one side of a IMAX screen to another anyway - if there was such a long file. I think the enchantment for me is being able to work in arbitrarily exotic environments. >We're not going to live in VR either. I don't believe that Virtual Reality will replace human social interactions like dating or sex in reality. However, a natural question is will you stream movies in Virtual reality or reality, and if you do stream in virtual reality, will you incorporate social elements? It doesn't sound so different than image boards which schedule movies to collective watch with chats etc. With all the gains of the table associated with reducing travel and cost having workers work in V.R. (imagine not having to pay for an office), and automation like groceries delivered home, people will spend more time at home 'on screen'. I imagine that an immersive screen could monopolize that time it allowed social interaction those around you. I do not think people will sleep 'in the metaverse', or attempt to forget reality, except in extreme cases which have analogues already in people who spend their life as NEETs on imageboards.

The metaverse is the dumbest meme ever. It's Mark and other technocrats thinking that what people want in a fantasy tech is soykafty board meetings who seem no have no understanding of internet culture. It doesn't mean much because most of internet culture is dead now, or might as well be.

>>55901 I am kind of realizing METAVERSE was a mistake, I should have said virtual reality. zuck has clearly poisoned the word.

>>55903 If your interested in vr, mozilla released a open source 'hubs' basically a vr chat but browser only and you can use your phone as the screen. https://mixedreality.mozilla.org/

>>55889 They are implementing the "public service do-good corporation" model from Reddit Gaymer One, IIRC they even consulted with author or something. Snow Crash had the same premise: centrally hosted VR corporate real estate experience. More of Second Life and ActiveWorlds (barely better graphics, lmao), less of pirate Gmod and Minecraft servers or that crap Mozi//a was hyping few years ago. Stephenson's Meta-verse was somewhat wild west-y because corporation had to manage too large entity, plot was written in 1993, and even on current year Facebook people exchange CP and gore daily in "private" chats slipping in front of policing robots. If unlawful activity is minimal, nobody really cares due to sunk cost/effectiveness ratio.

>>55887 Isn't this the plot of Ready Player One?

>>55862 If you really want to push far, then it should be gradually augmented reality. From 100% undisturbed IRL to transparent HUD overlays and suggestions to "modified" reality with language enhancers to full sensory lock-in Virtuality be it network-connected or not, just a computer inside your head, manageable external brain located neatly by your real one. The computer and interface should be no heavier than regular prescription spectacles or even an implant, of course. But that's far fetched, too infeasible at current prospects, would become an existential nightmare, so I'm still confident with a high DPI high refresh rate OLED ultrawide screen on my desk for electronic reading-writing and pocket touch screen computer as on-the-go information appliance. Having a 3D environment at your disposal and using to look at fuarrrking web browser with an QHD screen strapped to your face for few hours, yeah, that's exactly what you'd expect from a typical Linux fanboy without imagination. And obviously, your inconsistent usage of terminology backfired. Metaverse has always been associated with MMO-like virtual worlds where hip businessmen sell virtual tokens to hip digital native" youths, now that Facebook monopolized this name, expect being treated with arguments tangential to whatever you imagined.

>>55865 I really can't understand why you linked that Story. Its fascinating, and full of right wing conspiracy, but I think you must not have read it, or the the other stories. >God-Shaped Hole >Is an extended reality (with both Virtual and Augmented) story that includes some interesting stuff. >When the human eye scans the world to form pictures, it does so in discrete intervals called saccades. Anything that happens between saccades is invisible, and in those micromoments the AR mask can subtly shift the world to the left or the right without its wearer noticing. The body subconsciously corrects for this, and the mask steers its wearer wherever he ought to go. It feels at all times as if you are walking in a straight line, but in reality you make twists and turns pursuant to your destination. The guide nav isn’t there to show you where to go, only to show you where you’re going. Most people just zone out and surf Spectacle or read a book as they walk. There is no need to pay attention to where you are walking, and in fact, the saccadic redirection works better if you don’t.

>>55862 It always struck me that the way humans treat our companion species eventually becomes the norm for treatment of human beings too. Overpopulated cages, mandatory vaccines and medical checks, wearable and implanted (inventory) tracking devices, universal industrially produced fodder, now apparently a virtual world as replacement for existence. First we treat animals as commodity, now ourselves? https://web.archive.org/web/20140517004210/http://www.secondlivestock.com/public/acd.php

>>55969 That 1st picture is pretty /cyber/ . If its humane is a really interesting question - livestock clearly live a horror and something should and eventually will be done. In the mean time, given that set the chickens free and stop eating them is non-viable politically, is 'matrix'-ing them more humane than allowed them to stare at cage bars? Similarly, we are already caged ourselves in ways. Studies show all kind of cognitive and well-being indicators of being in nature - yet we are trapped in industrial jobs staring at best non-stimulating backgrounds. Is working from V.R. really so inhumane? You could just be in a cubicle or warehouse. Perhaps the corporations will demand control of Virtual Reality/Augmented Reality to try to prevent us from using AdBlock and avoiding trackers.

>>55969 You can always just say no, the chicken has no choice in the matter.

>>55969 This is satire. You can read a little more about it at the artist's site: http://www.theaustinstewart.com/secondlivestock.html Please do more research before believing such ridiculous things and presenting it as fact to others.

>>55978 Of course it is, the rest of examples in that post are valid. I'd imagine a few con artists and venture capital grifters would present real working e-Pasture™ VR systems in non-satirical way. (Satire = jest about present and supposed development of affairs in society). >>55973 Can I? You can not opt-out from majoritarian decision, I learned this at quite young age for example. I'm leaning to understanding that will freedom is incompatible with the way out universe works, everything is predetermined by subatomic quantum effects that influence electro-chemical reactions inside our brains thus denying innate freedom of thought and expression, everything is a reaction to cause corrected with rolled-out random.

>>55981 Causality does not preclude the existence of choice. In the immortal words of anon; "You could always just kill yourself".

>>55981 >. I'd imagine a few con artists and venture capital grifters would present real working e-Pasture™ VR systems in non-satirical way. and none of the farmers would buy it because it would be expensive. Well, okay. The stupid ones would buy it.

>>55862 To respond to your original sentiment OP; Headsets right now aren't exactly the most ergonomic things and as such I don't expect them to ever be very popular. A lot of futurists get caught up in the possibilities of these things while ignoring the neck ache, most people do the exact opposite.

>>55988 >Headsets right now aren't exactly the most ergonomic things The posts linked actually spend some time on that discussing the ergonomics, and how they are worth investing in , and how they adapted. I imagine the neck strain will improve as the technologies shrink. Bluetooth headsets and glasses are already things humans equip themselves with. The real question, IMO, is what will the cost of not working in V.R. be. The human choice will almost certainly be mediated through economics. And unfortunately, as we are all slaves, the human choice may be mediated through whats good for large considerations rather than people. I think this is one reason we need Open Source and User controlled hardware, and Decentralized Virtual Reality Networks that are interoperable. Anything else will be slavery.

>>55986 There are already meme "smart" farms with lots of sensors and feedback loops, they cut on personnel in places where wages are high and technology is cheap. In few years/decades when VR equipment becomes dirt cheap, we might expect VR farms that occupy same space as just one barn or even a multi-story building like there are indoor plant farms (only for expensive "cash crops" for now) instead of barn + pasture needed for healthy upbringing of animals. I know nothing about domestic animals, but according to basic logic, a stationary animal in small cage would produce less quality meat than animal moving on a treadmill in similar small cage as a simulation for rasing this animal "free range", on a pasture. Muscles need exercise to develop, meat is muscle, "free range" animal muscles have less fat in composition and less accumulated toxins. I'd also note that growing human organs has been a staple of transhumanist fiction for a while, and it usually was described as either growing regular human clones under strict exercise regiment and physical activity and then harvesting them for organs upon request or some sort of electric pseudostimulation in artificial wombs.

>>56009 > but according to basic logic, a stationary animal in small cage would produce less quality meat than animal moving on a treadmill in similar small cage as a simulation for rasing this animal "free range", on a pasture. I think you are wrong about that. Its clear the health of the animal requires its ability to move, but veal is loved for its tenderness exactly because the animal has not been allowed to develop its muscles. Many animals are currently caged and not allowed to move. However, its my belief that no treadmill is provided for the same reason no V.R. is provided - its cheaper not too.

>>55969 Don't forget about the actual VR cows. Also I worked for a school where I managed the thousands of Chromebooks we handed out to students during the lockdown for at home learning, I could easily imagine students getting VR headsets in the future when we have another lockdown because of covid sigma or whatever bullshit comes next. The school board members would probably praise it as a revolutionary way to help kids in quarantine

>>56013 >two VR headsets would produce a completely garbage visual because they're both in stereo >one VR headset would also produce a completely garbage visual because cow eyes aren't centered on the head the way human eyes are. Also second image looks shopped. >The school board members would probably praise it as a revolutionary way to help kids in quarantine The average cow farmer is more intelligent than the average school board member. Hell, the average cow is more intelligent than the average school board member.

>>55996 See lain, that's my main issue with a lot of this speculation. You very quickly gloss over the years of R&D required to make these things comfortable let alone intuitive to the wider population and then immediately segue to some dystopian scenario better suited for a YA novel. It's all rather silly. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite interested in VR as a genre and consequently are aware of the many possibilities the medium has, but let's not kid ourselves. These devices are essentially just souped monitors that you attach to your face, they don't solve many problems.

>>56013 Not really. There would be obvious concerns on schoolchildren's vision from viewing a screen that close for long periods while other people may be concerned over the radiowaves of if a phone is used as the VR headset. Yet then again they dont really have concern of effects of focing reading books in a relatively short period of time.

>>56038 >Not really. There would be obvious concerns on schoolchildren's vision from viewing a screen that close for long periods The thing with VR is it actually makes your eyes focus on a point at least 3+ feet away from you due to some optical tricks with the lenses. This actually makes VR better for children's eyes than the phone screens and iPads they stare at from 12 inches away

>>56038 >Not really. There would be obvious concerns on schoolchildren's vision from viewing a screen that close for long periods This really seems to conflict with reality. No one actually cares about what is good for children, our society is structured along economic incentives that we reason backwards from to make arguments for. School is free child day care to enable both parents to work because modern society demands it. A single income used to support a family and this has largely transitioned to two incomes, sometimes with further supplementation from extended family and friends. I don't believe this was the original purpose of school, but it clearly seems to be now. Later years of school exist to prevent teenagers from entering the work force and competing with adults. When you think about school curriculum you realize how pointless most of it is : Why do you learn the life cycle stages of a frog, or memorize state capitals ? This can be further seen in the expansion of preschool. Studies have shown consistently that starting school at later hours is consistently better for student performance, establish during puberty. This finding hasn't been used to improve the health or performance of schools. It can't, it conflicts with getting children to school before the workday. The amount of time US Adults spend watching T.V. or on screens , or social media has consistently been show to be unhealthy. No one cares. Children are supposedly protected by their parents regulating screen time, but we know that is not the case (and I wouldn't have government do it) at large. So , when the government mandates remote schooling, do you think people object predicated on screen time? My suspicion is that no one cares. In fact, i believe the largest opposition to 'closing the schools' comes from republicans who are suddenly concerned not that schools are liberal indoctrination centers, but that, children need to be in school. Probably because closing schools will disable parents ability to work, which means the government will likely be pressured to engage in social programs republican donors don't want to fund. So it sounds comical to imagine that Virtual Reality based school will be objected to on health grounds. What about the sale of pizza, candy and soda in schools? Virtual Reality schooling will be objected to on the grounds that its too expensive because it disrupts freeday care. But, like us of computers in school, it will likely come to play a role in schools.

>>55862 You ever heard of the movie Ready Player One? The movie is slowly becoming the reality

>>56071 Ready Player One is a book. Virtual Reality is a fancy monitor. Don't be a neo-Luddite.

>>56071 It's based on a novel, written in 2011, rather crappy one, on par with Cory Doctorow's pulp. The word Metaverse first appears in Neal Stephenson's Snowcrash novel from 1993.

>>56075 There should be like a word for anti anti ludditism we see today. Where instead of technology existing that could be put to good or bad use, technology itself is seen as good. You think autotargetting weapons are bad? Shut up Luddite. Advanced brain interface interrogation technique are bad? Shut up Luddite. Everyone being tracked 24/7? Shut up Luddite. I can imagine someone building some advanced Auschwitz today and it being praised cause it's tech. Not that tech is bad, it can help many of our problems, but it needs to be put to good use, and should never seen by itself as something virtious.

>>56079 You apparently don't understand these issues very well, or you might have heard of techno-utopian. Your conflating Virtual Reality - a method of display with 'Auschwitz' or w/e you think. Virtual Reality doesn't have to enable surveillance.

>>56042 How does that work? Wouldn't someone's eyes focus directly on the lense even if something appears further away? I know Ive read studies on myopia being worsened by glasses wearing so how could this be any different?

>>56090 no, otherwise glasses wouldn't work. >I know Ive read studies on myopia being worsened by glasses wearing so how could this be any different? I'm going to guess the main difference is that in the case of VR you have nothing else in the visual field to see, but with glasses you can see stuff around ht eedge of the glasses in your peripheral vision.

>>55862 Not about work in Virtual Reality >https://archive.is/0Ul1T >My big fat digital wedding: Indian couple plan country's 'first metaverse marriage' >"Because of the pandemic, a physical, real kind of reception is not possible with the huge number of people attending, >The groom, a 24-year-old blockchain and cryptocurrency enthusiast, worked with start-up platform TardiVerse to create a castle-like digital space inspired by Hogwarts. >"My father-in-law passed away last April," Padmavathi said. "So, I'm creating a 3D avatar that looks similar to (him), and he will bless me and my fiancée. That's something we can only do in the metaverse." >The one-hour event will see the newlyweds virtually address their guests, who will be able to explore the castle and customize their avatars' appearance and outfit. This is the kind of surveillance enabled future you guys are all worried about. A Network provided by a social media platform that requires control of your computing devices to participate. I would prefer a model more akin to a lan party where services are self-hosted and free of surveillance on computer under the control of the owners. Nonetheless, Its fascinating to see how others are using Virtual Reality. Personally, why not just until pandemic is over, you only have one wedding.

second life existed way back and is now a porn hub. VRChat is more recent and apparently also is turning into erp mostly. Hopefully this dies like stadya as normal people wont bite the hook. Also working in VR is bad cause VR googles mess up your vision more than regular screens. A daily 8h+ vr session is the last thing i would want.

>>56100 >cause VR googles mess up your vision more than regular screens. A daily 8h+ vr session is the last thing i would want. OP here. This does scare me.

>>56079 >>56082 It's funny how technology is seen as an influential power concept nowadays, when it initially was nothing but a concept for making things easier. Because that's what technological progress is really: initially, it makes acquisition of basic necessities easier and less risky, and as soon as those were secured, people started making things, that makes making these things easier, therefore making living easier in total. We are simply on such a high level of technological abstraction right now, that the purpose of the technologies we develop (the things we make) is not rarely visible immediately (what they make easier). This may make some people feel confused about the reason for the stuff we're making, but that's no reason to build a whole d4mn cult around it.

>>56112 *Now rarely visible. Please forgive my inattentiveness.

>>56082 virtual reality includes surveillance by its nature. VR its just a fancier version of mail exchange and that goes through the hands of many third parties that transmit the messages and record at minimum the exchange and at maximum the entire content for whatever duration your gov mandates. The latter being more feasible nowadays thanks to speech2text. Now if you meet IRL you dont need any third party. Thats a low tech solution thats 100% secure unless you are some elite criminal and get spies send after you with monitoring tec and thats a level of security no online interaction can reach because you simply dont have the skills to secure communication in first place.

>>56120 >virtual reality includes surveillance by its nature. No it doesn't. The Wikipedia article includes a history much older than Surveillance Capitalism, and per-internet. 'Virtual Reality' has always been about providing an immersive experience not about any specific exchange of information with third parties. For instance, >Immersion into virtual reality (VR) is a perception of being physically present in a non-physical world. The perception is created by surrounding the user of the VR system in images, sound or other stimuli that provide an engrossing total environment. That environment doesn't have to be network at all. >VR its just a fancier version of mail exchange No its not. V.R has nothing to do with social exchanges. V.R. is not equal to 3D video call. You equate it with some kind of Video Call for the duration of your post. It can do way more that that, and doesn't even have to be connected to the internet at all. But, assuming V.R. for video call going forward: >Now if you meet IRL you dont need any third party. What prevents Virtual Reality from being self-hosted and use of encryption or privacy technologies, IF you decide to network your virtual reality technology - which you don't have to do. > Thats a low tech solution thats 100% secure unless you are some elite criminal and get spies send after you with monitoring tec What are you talking about? I think by 'spies' you mean Law Enforcement, and they probably wont have monitoring tech as much as subpoenas and confidential informants. Low Tech isn't effective against confidential informants, subpoenas, and probably not the metadata your giving away anyway with Geofencing Warrants, Facial Recognition CCTVs, and license plate readers. I think that 'high tech' is probably the way to go to default Law enforcement. IE. Don't meet in person. Exchange Encrypted messages, use anonymity overlay networks. But why are we even discussing this? I simply want to use an immersive 3D environment to work in that is Open Source, and probably internet free. I am not trying to 'avoid spies with low tech'. I think we are in a fantasy land outside of strapping a monitor to my head.

>>56122 Sure VR as tec can be offline but thread theme is a 3d chatroom running VR to generate hype. Now the oldest iteration of chat is just regular postmail. And while the mailman had a law that forbid looking into letters the modern ISP is required to log all meta data and depending on country even look into the letter aka deep packet inspection. That's the surveillance build in by default - because you use internet for any online chat solution you automatically have to deal with surveillance. As for the IRL part i meant listening into the conversation. Way harder to do IRL than use existing backdoors into your pc. The way things are currently going govs are demanding backdoors in chat apps which makes security on commercial VR a joke anyway. This makes the entire idea of using things like this for work ridiculous because of said inbuild surveillance.

>>56120 >virtual reality includes surveillance by its nature. The first example in the OP is using VR for virtual monitors. No surveillance there. Local games, movie theatre simulation, vr porn can be done without internet. Architects could generate VR worlds from their design software to get a first person POV of how their work will look. Museums can provide simulations of a historic events or locations. Realistic driving simulations in driver's ed classrooms. This is off the top of my head - I'm sure there's plenty other uses of VR that don't need internet.

>>56128 >This makes the entire idea of using things like this for work ridiculous because of said inbuild surveillance. You keep getting things comically wrong because of your youth. You are almost more likely to be using a product for work because of surveillance than less, specially if employers can request that data. For instance, companies everywhere are using products like slack, teams etc. Companies usually are reluctant to try anything unusual in areas they don't care about (like cloud storage, or messaging), and want a corporation to be running the service so that they believe they will have long term access to it, are indifferent to commercial surveillance, and possibility interested in employee surveillance. If you told a small business to rely on ftp.lainon.org because it was free, they wouldn't even consider it before drive.google.com. However, if you told them ftp.lainon.org provides a corporate support tier that allows access to employee files and access logs, they might be more interested. Targeted Advertisements, Browser Fingerprinting, Having to sign up with Selfies and ID cards won't move them one way or another. >Sure VR as tec can be offline but thread theme is a 3d chatroom running VR to generate hype. Definitely agree on this one. I am not interested in 3D Facebook or any proprietary software or network service.

>>56035 >These devices are essentially just souped monitors that you attach to your face, they don't solve many problems. To be honest, I am really not sure, but I think its not as clear as you say. Virtual Reality could be just souped up monitors the way many technologies long forgotten have improved others and claimed to be revolutions, or they could be like cell phones are improved land-lines , or air-planes are improved boats (from the perspective of international individual travel), or like internet is improved AOL walled garden. Some improvements seem to hit a threshold the radically alters their use cases. Web 2.0 user generated content radically altered the web enabling Social Media, and Internet Forums. I am not sure what V.R. will do yet. Maybe it will marginally reduce business travel expenses and climate impact, or maybe it will destroy 'the office' and enable a massive shift to remote work. Maybe that will happen anyway - maybe the driver will be cloud hosted SAAS, bandwidth, and video calling applications. I wasn't kidding though about long term how the economic orientations of technology is what drives the structure of our societies. I think whatever is most efficient for the people in power is what will occur, and right now, software is enabling control of our lives in ways that were never before possible, and I don't expect to stop.

FOSS VR for me https://github.com/vircadia/vircadia

>>56132 Networking via Virtual Realities has been relatively popular for quite some time, with or without headsets the idea has been "revolutionary" already. For the sake of simplicity we might post hoc refer to certain technologies as being a turning point but all tech is established on prior concepts, it would just take to long to list all the various small improvements and changes. What exactly do you think isn't clear? Because the way I see it: VR is simply a style of interface, all the spooky dystopian crap comes from external forces. And assuming the previously mentioned spookiness does become popular, how is that different from the current status quo? why would you and I not do what we are doing now and network via non-spooky means?

>going in VR just to have a bigger screen is this the ultimate C programmer braindamage? imagine blinding yourself to LARP as if VR exists by putting a half working LCD onto your eye vim is not cyberbunk. it's textpunk. just like steampunk it's retarded and impractical. terminal is not cyberpunk, it's from the 1800s and has no real use case other than supporting legacy software which was considered legacy by the 90s. >b-b-but all the webshotters i know use it!! case in point

>>56168 >What exactly do you think isn't clear? This. >let's not kid ourselves. These devices are essentially just souped monitors that you attach to your face, they don't solve many problems. V.R. may yet have some world changing application that is about to emerge, or , it might be souped up monitors. >VR is simply a style of interface, all the spooky dystopian crap comes from external forces I agree 100% with this. V.R. right now is nothing but an interface. I think any world changing applications have yet to be built on top of that interface, but some might. Any 'spooky' crap, emerges from whats built on top of the notion of a monitor on your face. >assuming the previously mentioned spookiness does become popular, how is that different from the current status quo? I do think this is dangerous the same way smart phones become popular have become dangerous. The lack of norms on smart phones has enabled large corporations to surveil the masses, and control their computing (no root, can't change OS, can't install unapproved software on some, ...). If a Virtual Reality interface is built on oppressive technology and becomes an assumed norm in the world, this bodes ill for freedom.

>>56174 > VR = ultimate C programmer braindamage > vim and terminal arn't cyberpunk > webshitters Are you angry about something? You can use the terminal if you want, and vim really isn't that hard to learn, it even has a GUI. Imagine being so triggered by a programming language that you tirade about it randomly >b-b-but C was in the screenshots. No webshitter, its perl? lol. It seems to use '#' as comment, but have C like bracing. >nb4 enlightened language We are discussing virtual reality, your the one ranting about programming languages. Also terminal not cyberpunk, but steam punk, is a pretty hot take. Terminal is culturally what identifies to the masses a hacker which is quite cyberpunk. Its why trinity is running SSH exploits and nmap in matrix on a terminal. I have never scene a terminal in steampunk though. >ASCII comes from telegraph , irrelevant. What is cyberpunk then to you? Toss out your tired terminals, vim, coding, hackers. Embrace.. ? Windows 11 ? Mac OS ? GNOME 3?

>>56177 I suppose I could see a similar situation to phones arising, at least for cheaper headsets. although I again question if that's outside of the status quo for these purpose build electronics. In the case of existing headsets however; wasn't the Quest 2 very quickly jail-broken? at least we can say most people are more receptive to these issues when the surveillance is more apparent. I.E cameras attached to your face.

>>56183 >I have never scene a terminal in steampunk though. Not sure if the detective Animatrix sequence might qualify, but that whole tangent is off-topic anyway.

I think OP deliberately chose buzzwordy name for this thread and now plays dumb to "boost engagement" and sprout conversation. Yes, looking at screens inside your screen is not something new. It's existed in Worlds.com, ActiveWorlds, Second Life, any sandbox game with enough popularity before. Programming a computer or writing text from inside a virtual world is not something entirely new either. Modern VR headsets are still two low-resolution screens strapped to the head.

>>56239 >I think OP deliberately chose *a buzzwordy name for this thread and now plays dumb to "boost engagement" and sprout conversation. Most likely yes, is there some problem with that? People have been asking questions which beg to be answered long before the term "engagement" and "buzzword" entered the gestalt conciseness, there's nothing inherently bad about the tactic.

>>56239 >>56240 >I think OP deliberately chose *a buzzwordy name for this thread I did pick a name last that I wanted to be attractive and sound cyberpunk - and it is - "Metaverse" is from Neal Stephenson's amazing novel Snow Crash. My expectation was there would be an enthusiastic response because this is schway - this is the closest thing that exists to Case jacking in - and its not a video game. Uses of Virtual Reality other than video games are fascinating. It seems the response is actually quite hostile. Most people read the word Metaverse as Facebook and it seems to have hit the /g/-style paranoia where everything is OPSEC, uncle ted was right, and ... . I think thats problematic, because a cyberpunk /tech/ board should probably like technology. I am actually a hardcore foss only kind of user, don't do social media, and protect my privacy. I would never use any facebook product, but I can still see the value of non-Facebook Virtual Reality. > now plays dumb to "boost engagement" I am not 'playing dumb'. I am actually genuinely confused at the responses. Since when do cyberpunks hate technology - I mean stock technology that exploits you yes, but as someone pointed out, this is just strapping a monitor to your face for the view.

>>56244 >"Metaverse" is from Neal Stephenson's amazing novel Snow Crash. That's literally what faceborg does, and second life did before, a corporate MMOG silo. If it's been described in some fiction novel 30 years ago doesn't make it better than what it actually is. >Case jacking in Dudeweed junkie delirium written by a person who haven't seen a computer. Ze Mejtricks is still not about screens strapped to your face, if you haven't read carefully, it's a mental representation of computer software, individual to each person. Dream machines were a concept since late 1950's, Gibson probably read about them somewhere. >Uses of Virtual Reality other than video games are fascinating. You could attach any kind of non-conventional VR use as OP pic, but chose to put screenshot of un*xtard text editors with unintelligible text and a fuarrrking browser window, my computer already does that, I don't need to see low-res CGI globe in the background, I'm comfortable with my own room. Regular displays can't render text at adequate density yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_density#Computer_displays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea_centralis#Angular_size_of_foveal_cones >Since when do cyberpunks hate technology Cyberpunk is dead. Your average Joe sixpack looooves technology, it's now underground thing to hate and deconstruct it (at least it's high- forms), and not without reason. There is a line where people draw boundaries of autonomy. VR is just another tightly wrapped simulacrum.

>>56245 >That's literally what faceborg does - a corporate MMOG silo. Snow Crash Conceptualized the world as ancapistan, and so the internet as private might be true - but nothing of the surveillance capitalism of the present. I think Snow Crash's Meteverse is akin to Gibson's matrix - a 3D computer network that is immersive. They are a little different , Gibson's matrix is 'geometric' and spartan, with little/no social element at all. Metaverse is expressive, and allows individual ownership of property, has a social component, and modeled after the real world. But, Where is any of the manipulations of surveillance capitalism ? It might have been imagined, but as removed as hacking is from snow crash. >You could attach any kind of non-conventional VR use as OP pic, but chose to put screenshot of un*xtard text editors Post your own screenshots or ideas by all means, I am a programmer who uses vim. I am fascinated with the idea of modifying my experience of the environment for fun. Working 'from orbit' sounds cyberpunk af. > I don't need to see low-res CGI globe in the background, <so this is the power of virtual reality It might be trash. I have never tried it. I am optimistic the technology will improve if it is trash. Its believable to me that ultimately, virtual reality will visually at least be able to arbitrarily well be able to approximate reality, or even be hyperreal. That might not be 'enough', and it may be nothing like 'jacking in'. Of course, the power of visual illusions that can induce sensation, and the popularity of V.R. porn do speak to 'the power of virtual reality'. I have never used it through, and so maybe its trash. > Your average Joe sixpack looooves technology I don't see that. "Techlash" has become a yuge thing. A former president of the US had a popularish opinion to get rid of user generated content online (CD 219), and regulate tech companies in some unspecified but perhaps harmful way. Gentrification and Tech Bro protests are occurring in places like San Fransisco, and Google Busses have been attacked. There was a shooting a youtube HQ. Its clear to me that tech companies exert a disproportionate power of people and there is a healthy backlash (and unhealthy shooting). >it's now underground thing to hate and deconstruct it No, its a hipster /g/-paranoia thing. No technology is any good, its all bad opsec. I can actually see Virtual Reality as a technology that is like kicking dead whales down the beach. I just can't see it the way its being pitched as bad. Virtual Reality isn't faceborg's surveillance - and There is danger if just abandoning it to the corporations. The corporations own the smart phone market, which is the new computing market, and its all slavery and surveillance. And installing (spyware) applications on a smart phone is becoming mandatory for essential functions of life. Do we want to let them own Virtual Reality?

>>56251 If you wanna do this you have to act fast. Whatever manifests itself as mainstream will become a monolith same as twitch couldnt be brought to its knees by microsoft throwing money on creating another platform.

>>55862 >Adventures in Technophilosophy: On the Reality of Virtual Worlds >...I discovered computers. My first machine was a PDP-​10 mainframe system ... These days, I have numerous virtual reality systems in my study, including an Oculus Quest 2 and an HTC Vive. I put on a headset, open an application, and suddenly I’m in a virtual world >VR technology is still far from perfect, but we’ve had the sense of inhabiting a common world. When five of us were standing around after a short presentation, someone said, “This is just like coffee break at a philosophy conference.” >These temporary limitations will pass. The physics engines that underpin VR are improving. In years to come, the headsets will get smaller, and we will transition to glasses, contact lenses, and eventually retinal or brain implants. The resolution will get better, until a virtual world looks exactly like a nonvirtual world. We will figure out how to handle touch, smell, and taste. We may spend much of our lives in these environments, whether for work, socializing, or entertainment.

Somewhat offtopic, but Facebook's vision is best compared to VirtuaVerse, rather than Snow Crash.

>>55887 Dont forget getting raped by furries in your first 5 minutes in the metaverse In the united states facebook is now a valid authentication for the national tax system

>>56048 > This finding hasn't been used to improve the health or performance of schools. It can't, it conflicts with getting children to school before the workday. Conspiratorial thinking gives low-ranking bureaucrats too much credit. If you're a public school admin, what's the incentive to go through the trouble of changing to later hours? The kids are the ones who have to worry about succeeding, not you. >kids need to be in school Our society is so fragmented and atomized that School is one of the few places children can reliably socialize. Re-opening schools doesn't solve the root problem (atomization and the destruction of public life via industrialization), but mainstream politicians aren't exactly big-picture types.

>>55893 >Has facebook poisoned the name so much that we can't discuss virtual reality because we are unable to distinguish big 3D pictures from network surveillance? Yes. Absolutely, yes.

>>56597 >If you're a public school admin, what's the incentive to go through the trouble of changing to later hours? Opposite - changing the hours would result in public outcry because it will conflict with the structure of work in our society.

>>56597 >Conspiratorial thinking gives low-ranking bureaucrats too much credit. Thats not conspiratorial thinking. If a school tries to change its work in such a way that inconveniences parents, it stands a fair chance of being shot down.

>>55862 >I think its extremely like that we will all be required to work/live in virtual reality in the future Yeah, man. It's not like we will need physical labor ever again. Those power station can keep by itself without the need of man. Infinity electricity without any person working there.

The current state at the moment is far too limited. The hardware for VR is too daunting for average normalcattle, and it's mostly proprietary, too. Until VR headsets (especially anything from Oculus) gets hacked to run freely without any online account, I wouldn't count on it. Even the OSVR is outdated with its resolution and refresh rate.

>>56639 It sure would be weird if robots were already running power plants. But that's probably just crazy scifi haha...

>>56639 >Yeah, man. It's not like we will need physical labor ever again Its interesting that you believe this. In most developed nations that largest employers are service sector employees who could do their job in VR. Most Factories are automated because labour is so expensive. Its clear that all humans will have to be disconnected from virtual reality probably even the majority of the time. You can't eat in Virtual Reality. There is no reason to sleep in virtual reality. However, if virtual reality because a dominant mode of computing in our society, displacing things like 'online chat' for commercial interactions, a minority of workers might not work in virtual reality and the majority might. Walmart greeters may greet online if shopping moves online.

>>56726 >You can't eat in Virtual Reality. Of course you can. Maybe it would be AR but whatever. But given food in the right place and some means of sensing it, food could be useable in the VR space, why not. >There is no reason to sleep in virtual reality. Sure but that doesn't mean I don't know people who do it already. Weird as heck, sure, but they exist.

>>56650 robots still can't do basic problem-solving or anything requiring dexterity and skill. Right now it is still significantly cheaper to hire some bozo for $15/hr to fix your plumbing than get a robot to do it, because that bozo can twist himself in weird ways and figure soykaf out without needing a team of engineers to tell him how. Robots also require constant supervision even for the stuff they can do. Despite what you might have heard, there's no reason to expect this to change in the near future. Your body is already just an extremely complicated and featureful robot anyway. Why intentionally limit your sensorium just so you can fool yourself into thinking you're in another environment? It's fun for games yeah but I am certain I would get immensely bored with VR if it took up a significant amount of my time like the internet already does.

>>56735 I think you misunderstand the use of these robots. They aren't there to problem solve, in most cases they're being piloted by indians who get paid 50 cents an hour. Also these robots are equipped with advanced sensors to detect gasses and radiation, so teams of engineers are choosing to deploy them to work safely, because having some bozo get hurt and sue you is a lot more expensive than just using a robot. >Despite what you might have heard, there's no reason to expect this to change in the near future. This isn't about what I've "heard", I'm looking at the real examples of Boston dynamics robots being deployed in production. Also, companies are buying Boston dynamics robots because the robots already know how to climb stairs and open doors and so on without needing the input of "a team of engineers" so any Indian with a joystick can easily control it just as he would a video game character.

>>55862 >>56371 >https://www.ivoox.com/en/the-metaverse-virtual-worlds-and-the-problems-of-audios-mp3_rf_81872882_1.html > the metaverse, the nature of reality, and the problems of philosophy in a virtual world. >David’s central thesis is that the metaverse and virtual reality are genuine realities and that we may be living in such virtual worlds already. (paywalled part) >In the second part of their conversation, David and Demetri imagine not only what it would be like to live in a simulated world, but whether or not it would be possible to do so without becoming a slave to someone else’s reality. David also shares his views on Web3 and whether or not such protocols could play a role in helping people live freer and better lives in the metaverse.

I believe Stanislaw Lem used to call this thingie "phantomatics".