anti-botnet action?

I've become increasingly more tired of the botnet and it's ever growing influence on society. I've debotnetted my life to the greatest extent I can, but want to take it a step further. I want to start helping others see the nastiness inherent in proprietary software, and wake people up to the threat of massive technological monopolies. Sadly it seems that many in my life just don't see the issue. Actions in my life that I've taken include: >Creating a secure machine running Libreboot >Putting money into Monero >Using a degoogled Android >Advocating for Free Software and donating to the FSF >Refusing to use (dis)services such as Discord, Instagram, Facebook, Google Meets, etc... etc.. I've had this theory for a while that if we can achieve mass open decentralised communication, commerce, and production, those 3 in combination would greatly erode the power of authoritarian governments and megacorporations. I'd appreciate some thoughts on that idea. How does Lain take the fight to the botnet? What actions can be taken to hurt the botnet en masse?

Seeing people using the botnet makes me sad too, but at least my mother do not care about being spied. Everytime she tells me to use the botnet or something like that and I complain about it she says things like "you will have to use whatsapp to live in society" or "if it is so hard to avoid it why bother to try to?". Also, expect being called autistic.

unfortunately most people fear change more than they fear corporate control. its still worth trying, fight till the end, but dont expect for anyone to actually end up changing anything in their life to take action against the botnet.

>>55125 Its really hard, most people simply don't give a soykaf about this stuff and don't seem to grasp the implications My dad is a smart guy, he manages an organisation of about 1000 people having started as a rank and file worker, he has a garmin smartwatch. I was talking to him about it and he was going on and on about all the features it has and all the analytics it can do and he couldn't understand why I would find it creepy, I pointed out to him the amount of information he was handing over and all the possible uses for it and he just looked at me like I was crazy, and he's far less into this soykaf than most people Actions I take are: >Refuse to use any corpo social media, absolutely refuse to have anything smart, I've returned about 4 things this year given to me as presents because they were smart >Anything that requires an account like ebay is silo'd and all of the permissions turned down as much as possible >Use a degoogled phone >Use only open apps on my phone, no playstore stuff, nothing that needs to phone home to work >Don't use google maps (a big one, this actually is difficult in my country as all the other GPS stuff really is like kicking dead whales down the beach) >Anything I have to interact with that's big company owned for any reason I feed fake information to instead of using my own Ultimately all of this is only a drop in the bucket though

did you really need to create a new thread for those obvious truths? look at /sec/, literally every second post there is about measures for privacy. If you are not already doing all the things you mentioned you don't belong here anyways. Do you really think there are lainons you need to lecture that using Facebook is bad?

At this point, for me personally it's no longer a tiresome and depressing matter of convincing people of free alternatives. The majority of people around me doesn't want freedom. They want convenience in using what currently is used "by everybody else". For me the question turned from how to go against the botnet into how to still be part of society and maintain human relationships with people who increasingly chose to be zombie slaves to technologies mega corporations. It's no longer about how to save them, it became a matter of how to survive among them, because at the end of the day we all biologically need a social environment. I literally need to be among the zombies to not be alone hoping for others to reveal themselves to be free by their own choice aswell at some point in the future.

>I've had this theory for a while that if we can achieve mass open decentralised communication, commerce, and production, those 3 in combination would greatly erode the power of authoritarian governments and megacorporations. You may or may not have heard it, but this was the basic idea behind the internet by design, not this soykaf we ended up with. >>55126 I hear stuff like this from so many people, "everyone else is using it", if everyone else jumped off a cliff would you too? The worst part is many of them are aware even of the surface level evils of all those things, yet when suggesting an alternative it falls right down under the table. There is little to no point in talking to anyone about this, if they are interested they usually bring it up themselfs. >>55134 Me personally i see on how to get as far away as possible from those zombies and the powderkeg that is about to explode on them. Around here almost all people are smart zombies by now, you know which one is and there are very few that arent. And yes the majority of people seem to hate freedom, they love to be herded into a collective pen, i really thought people would wake up, but instead they got even more into it.

>For me the question turned from how to go against the botnet into how to still be part of society and maintain human relationships with people who increasingly chose to be zombie slaves to technologies mega corporations. >It's no longer about how to save them, it became a matter of how to survive among them, fuarrrk, this is how i feel, this is so fuarrrked. the world is increasingly becoming more and more hostile to anyone trying to avoid the botnet. its no longer "do you use my social media? lets connect on it" its now become "if you dont use my social media you are an untouchable and I wont consider you a valid human to make any connection with". just try to make a new account on reddit, youre shadow derezzed on a fuarrrkload of subreddits, cant post in many from karma restrictions, and constantly harassed by other reddit zombies "youre account is new so what you say is invalid, youre blocked". im not advocating using reddit, my point is that we are entering a new age of zombie people. These zombies are now being completely controlled by their corporate overlords, they spend their free time now actively protecting their corporate fiefdom's walled garden and are convinced this is what _they_ want and are doing out of their own will. the algorithm tells them what to do, say, and like, and they follow

>>55134 I've been in this mode for a while (probably 3-4 years). It does take some compromises; for instance I have a friend who absolutely refuses to use anything besides discord and telegram, and it's really hard to get by in an unfamiliar city without a (degoogled) smartphone and a bank account. >>55142 to be honest I rarely run in to this. I make new reddit accounts every few weeks and that's the only social media I have. Most people either don't care or give you a kind of weird respect for being "off the grid"

>>55125 >brown hair >brown asiatic eyes >brown bukkake partners hard pass

>>55149 LET'S ALL LOVE LAIN LET'S ALL LOVE LAIN LET'S ALL LOVE LAIN

>>55142 >the algorithm tells them what to do, say, and like, and they follow Absolutely! At this point people are openly conditioned to behave according to algorithms and they also seem to be in denial about it under the impression to use the algorithm in their best interest and to their advantage. If I, as a human being, would condition fellow humans in a way those algorithms do, I'd be a full blown sociopath and a highly manipulative person to stay the hell away from. I would not openly admit it, but I have lost respect for those zombies and am actually surprised how many people who are generally perceived as intelligent free thinking individuals are affected by this algorithmic conditioning.

Libreboot is a bad choice for security. Flash coreboot instead due to libreboot forcing you to use outdated and insecure firmare and being a victim of hijacking. FSF is a terrible organization that often spreads misinformation

>>55125 >How does Lain take the fight to the botnet? Have such a grand time on the internet that your friends and family notice >Refusing to use (dis)services such as Discord, Instagram, Facebook, Google Meets, etc... etc.. See, what you're doing is having a visibly bad time, so nobody wants to be like you >Sadly it seems that many in my life just don't see the issue. >>55132 Many people care. I would even say most people generally value these things, if lightly, and are receptive to alternatives that can demonstrably, concretely improve their lives. Not a lot of that going on in this thread, or anywhere else to be fair. The botnet is bad inasmuch as it consolidates knowledge and power, i.e. it's antidemocratic. If you'd rather be democratic, you'd better learn to love the "zombies" even more than you love Lain.

>>55132 >a big one, this actually is difficult in my country as all the other GPS stuff really is like kicking dead whales down the beach Even OepnStreetMap? I use OSMAnd and I find it even better than GMaps, especially for its offline functionalities and routing engine(s)

>>55144 First point is exactly why I love google translate and maps SOOO much. It's super usefull when visiting a new city/country and you need to know your way around! This would be the hardest thing to give up for me on a smartphone.

>>55162 Yes, OSMand is the best of a bad bunch of alternatives imo. Its useable, but its more like using a paper map and compass that happens to live on your phone and comes with a set of virtual markers and rulers to draw a route than a true Gmaps replacement, the sat nav functionality is extremely poor in my country outside of motorways, it tends to get you within about half a km of where you actually want to go. I've just accepted it, Gmaps is incredibly good because google is incredibly bad and you can't use it without feeding the beast so I don't use it >>55160 Based off of my experience a great many people do not care, none of my family seems to care and most of my coworkers don't seem to either, they worry about the government doing some nebolous soykaf but don't worry about all the concrete intrusion happening from private companies that all feed information to the government anyway. All of them have Amazon echo things and they all use siri and alexa and whatever google's trash tier solution is called, the average person doesn't give a fuarrrk about their privacy in any logical way and when I try and explain what they're doing to them they either laugh or blankly stare or go haha yeah I'll look into it then never do All of my friends are nerds so they do care but they're the minority.

>>55166 I understand. I guess I am lucky living in a country (Italy) where openstreetmap have a good amount of detail, in some areas even better than gmaps. Probably it's a mix of public data, we call them OpenData, directly available from the public administrations and a fair number of volunteers [1], like Italy is the 6th country by contributes. Of course the glorious Deutschland is in pole position [1] https://osmstats.neis-one.org/

>>55166 >Its useable, but its more like using a paper map and compass that happens to live on your phone and comes with a set of virtual markers and rulers to draw a route than a true Gmaps replacement This is accurate. If you're bad at navigating I guess it's not very useful. I have a really good sense of direction though. Sometimes I'll just write down some directions on a notepad before leaving, it's easier than figuring out google's BS. >the average person doesn't give a fuarrrk about their privacy in any logical way and when I try and explain what they're doing to them they either laugh or blankly stare or go haha yeah I'll look into it then never do When you talk about anything technical people are assuming that you are trying to show off your intelligence and are trying to respond in kind, or are cowed into silence. I don't know the solution to that problem. The only normal I know who has tried to make any meaningful steps towards privacy is doing it because he's got a crush on a girl who is getting in to it. Most people I know seem to be aware that social media is cancerous, even if they still use it.

>>55125 The only non-morally-dubious way to "fight" the "botnet" is to actively make services that are objectively more convinient to use, which as you can imagine is rather difficult. You should also consider convincing people to be a lost cause, not because it's impossible of course, but because most people (including you and I) are bad at it. It's far easier to work with the existing narrative of 'SoCiAl MeDiA BaD' and regurgitate similar sentiments when someone asks why you don't have an account for this thing or that thing. Besides that, I don't see much point in "boycotting" such services, as if that's going to effect anything. Rather your reasoning should be pragmatic first and foremost and then you can come up with high and mighty excuses as to why you don't use something.

>>55181 >The only non-morally-dubious way to "fight" the "botnet" is to actively make services that are objectively more convinient to use, which as you can imagine is rather difficult actually, this is trivial. its marketing that is the problem. better services are difficult to market and takes years before people even know it exists. look at something like adblockers, average people use adblock and swear by it, but its tough for them to even figure out something like this exists or how to even install it. most people probably dont even get the concept of a browser extension, build a better mousetrap, trivial market a better mousetrap, near impossible

>>55181 >Besides that, I don't see much point in "boycotting" such services, as if that's going to effect anything. improves your quality of life, and as you meet more people doing the same it improves their quality of life to be around botnet-free people too.

>>55125 I had convinced a couple of my friends to use Linux I use debian on all my personal computers degoogled android too, lineage os but its a pain in the ass and i had to go back to normal android as it was deemed insecure by my company and i pretty much had to go back to using windows as its the one on official laptop My friends went back to windows as they got tired of it too I dont trust crypto yet no social media at all for me too, just here and the other chan couple times a month Its hard to beat the botnet, a hopeless battle

>>55195 Two days ago I was mocked to have a major skill deficit in not knowing how to use Windows (anymore). After 15 years on Linux, I just don't care how to click the most stupid consumer tasks on Windows, and it somehow turns out to be a sign of lack of knowledge on my side. Convincing other people of technological possibilities is completely hopeless. They either find out for themselves or keep using their convenient status quo.

>Refusing to use (dis)services such as Discord, Instagram, Facebook, Google Meets, etc... etc.. How do you achieve mass adoption through propaganda and advocation when you excluded yourself from medium where masses congregate?

>>55212 write soykaf on the walls.

>>55212 I kind of shuffle up to them at the bus stop and offer them a laser printed pamphlet for my fringe political group that I keep a stack of in a lunchbox in my bag

>>55141 >You may or may not have heard it, but this was the basic idea behind the internet by design Last time I checked, the basic idea behind InterNET was to connect separate computer networks created earlier for DOD, ARPA, NSF, USENet and universities in United States of America with single backbone. All of the above institutions were and are financed from United States budget, e.g. taxes those funny people who ride mobility scooter pay each time they order a burger with freedom fries side-dish. Still even today, United States government is in control of IANA and ICANN, organizations that rent out IP addresses and domain names to be used on de facto United States-owned InterNET. If they really want, they can kick you off their network. >>55141 >if everyone else jumped off a cliff would you too? Ive only seen this phrase used in context of authority figure trying to pressure a person from participating in minority group, not the other way around. In the eyes of majority you're "jumping off the cliff" figuratively by refusing to participate in society through means deemed normal at any given time period.

>>55131 I've found that also, most people seem to be incredibly lazy in terms of changing anything that would even slightly inconvenience them. >>55132 It's good that you're making those efforts, even though it may just be a drop in the bucket, with enough drops we can change things. Fight on Lain. >>55134 I've been asking myself that same question on how to still maintain relationships (or even form new ones). Currently at my UNI most people are communicating through a discord server (which I have refused to join) I managed to move some of the people that I want to stay in contact with the most to GNU Jitsi, so that was a little relief. >>55141 The internet really could have been so much more. >>55142 I feel this as well, the building I live in (I live there for free, long story) is full of yuppie rich kid types. So many of them just get a disgusted look on their face when I tell them that I don't have any social media. >>55152 Free will is deprecated >>55181 I'm considering ways to do that, services and alternative models of communication that could somehow break the network effect and cause a transition of people to more ethical platforms.

>>55192 See, that's part of what I was talking about; That argument is obscenely non-specific, people cannot be convinced with these types abstract appeals, especially when they are entrenched in the majority and don't put very much thought into their inane "communication" apps. >>55184 I suppose if we're working with such a loose definition of "marketing" then that would be the difficult part, however I think the issue is a little more complex than the word marketing entails. I also wasn't reffering to the "quality" of alternatives, convenience is not directly related to quality if at all, and if we're talking about how much something appeals to the majority than the former always trumps the latter.

>>55264 >I'm considering ways to do that, services and alternative models of communication that could somehow break the network effect and cause a transition of people to more ethical platforms. The main hurdle for most is the mere idea of "switching", either because they have "friends" on the undesirable platform or because they attach some value to being connected to a large amount of people that are on that undesirable platform. The only way I can see of remedying that is to offer seamless interoperability between your platform and it's closest competitors. A system of bridges to invalidate any isolation that could occur from leaving the dominant platform.

>>55264 >I've been asking myself that same question on how to still maintain relationships (or even form new ones). its a difficult moral decision, join the botnet so you can convince others to abandon it, or abstain from the botnet with the highest moral compass but possibly empower it more. ive concluded at this point that the only way to stop the botnet is to become part of it, make something of yourself, and use the influence you gain in the botnet to try to pull people out of it. but will your morals stay intact by doing this? is it even worth it to help people out of the botnet who cant help themselves out of it? and should this work and the botnet fall, will it form again? Matcalfe's law suggests it will. those are the questions i ponder

Maybe people would choose in a more freedom oriented way to maintain digital connections, if they were actually more educated about technology. What has been described as the botnet seem to be companies, which were capable to rise into those positions at a time, when the societal demographic dictated that the average user had no idea about the internet, because most people were born and grew up without it. Could freedom from the botnet be a property of children being educated to program computers?

>>55323 And to be free from wage slavery children need to be taught how to operate industrial machinery.

>>55151 Just stop please.

>>55333 he's expressing love for lain, on a site called lainchan.org, chilll

>>55326 I see your point, but my assumption in this case transfered to industrial machinery, would be closer to teaching people how to engineer and build machinery to solve problems. The education would need to be on a deeper layer of how to create solutions based on technology, instead of how to operate solutions others have created for their personal gain. my thought model looks like this: ------------------------- using products <---we are being educated on this ------------------------- operating technology -------------------------- inventing and engineering technology --------------------------- science gathers evidence for potential technology ---------------------------- let's hope that post formation doesn't look to fuarrrked up

>>55406 >we are being taught to consoom product, that's a fact! Maybe in USAnia

>>55420 I don't think Anons point is that we are literally educated into consumption, but that the education system encourages one to become a consumer in a roundabout way. Evidence could be the reliance of proprietary technology within schools. What Anon suggests is that a diy spirit is cultivated in children, and education focused on invention, design, and engineering be made. At the moment, the average computer user only knows how to use his/her computer as a means of consumption or as a machine for the use of office products. Instead it should be ideally encouraged that a computer user should know how to operate, modify, and tailor the computer to his/her needs, and in certain cases be able to produce tools for use with the computer.

>>55125 >How does Lain take the fight to the botnet? He went to I2P, where no one is interested in corporations, and anons communicate in the society of the same anons

The power of friendship is one of the few things that can fight the botnet. You can refuse to use surveillance-ware, but then what? You've got to increase the network effect of the alternatives. Or even better you can make friends in real life. Facebook doesn't care if Facebook has one less user, but if you're a cool guy who fuarrrks and doesn't use Facebook because real life is just so much better, people might notice that. It's easy to know what you're against, it's harder to figure out what you're for -- but if you have that, it can be compelling to others. After you've personally disconnected yourself as far as you're willing, this is one of the few things you can do besides being an open-source developer on critical projects. I guess if you were rich, you could run ads telling people what's going on and give positive suggestions. Better yet, lobby governments to include anti-botnet stuff in K12 education.

>>55830 It sounds cheesy Lain, but you're right. I will get my friends out of the botnet.

>>55830 >the power of friendship Not this bullshit again. I swear if anyone ever thought friendship was "magic". If a word is needed, I would use "indoctrination". When you befriend someone you lower your guard and begin to trust them, and they can and will exploit that trust to their advantage. They may convince you to use Discord, Facebook, or Telegram, and you'll use it just because they use it. If you don't think for yourself, you'll find yourself blindly defending them no matter what they do. Someone acts like a little brat and you're going to defend them even though they deserve the soykaf they get. You'll believe everything they believe unless you question everything. Question the mainstream narrative. Question the "alternative media". It's all fake news. If you want to escape the BOTNET, you're going to have to ditch your friends. You can't expect them to use Tor/I2P exclusively and XMPP or IRC for communications.