Systemd

Do you use systemd? Why? If you don't, what init system you use?

i use openrc because it has fairly good documentation (gentoo wiki)

>>34354 I don't use systemd simply because it's a backdoor: >Fallback to google things¹ >Fallback to cloudflare things² Adding things like that to Linux is how you backdoor Linux. I simply use runit because Just Werks. And because I love void linux 1: https://isc.sans.edu/forums/diary/Systemd+Could+Fallback+to+Google+DNS/22516/ 2: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/12499

I use it for compatibility but it has major security/maintenance issues. Same with Linux kernel. Essentially I believe the security issues are negligible until I progress in my career enough to be targeted as an individual.

>>34375 Is that "real work" making money for someone else?

>>34388 Yes, I hate capitalism as well but this is a technology board

openrc because its what openbsd uses. runit is pretty sweet too.

>>34354 i have 1 emergency situation boot of ubuntu due to pure wide range compatibility - but regularly everything i use is bsd - so no i dont use systemd, until some psycho convinces fbsd to port it

>>34354 No, because it's poetterware.

weren't they trying to integrate luks into systemd? or actually every other feature into it? this opens up for a lot of backdoor possibilities which might already exist. say one golden key for all linux devices, pwned as fuarrrk

>>34431 I certainly was in the right >>34373

>>34354 Yeah, because it came with my distro and hasn't caused any problems for me so far.

>>34354 >Do you use systemd? No. >Why? I know better. >If you don't, what init system you use? Not a systemd one.

I use Fedora and GNOME, and at that point, you might just as well use systemd. If I had to design a system from ground up, I wouldn't use it, but in a ready-made distro, I don't care. The only exceptions are better logging and user-services. That's cool, but not enough for someone to switch.

To be honest, on all of my computers, I use three different init systems: OpenRC, runit and OpenBSD's init They're all comfy and to be honest, if I were to choose one of them as the "ultimate init", I would roll a dice because they're equally good, just different.

>Do you use systemd? Yeah >Why? Because Debian uses it. At least Debian has some sane defaults like disabling resolved by default (y'know the fallback DNS to Google and Cloudflare) and using their own NTP servers

>>34456 why even post

>>34354 I use systemd. It's just init system and it's fast so why change? Also systemctl is cute and as I am aware of, you cannot run docker without systemd and this is big no no for me.

>>34471 >It's just init system and it's fast so why change? Many reasons are already listed, but have some more: https://nosystemd.org/ >systemctl is cute That's arguable. >you cannot run docker without systemd Not true; Alpine runs docker out of the box.

>>34354 >Do you use systemd? Yes >Why? On my desktop, because it was the default when I installed arch many years ago. On servers because I know how to configure it and haven't taken the time to learn anything else yet. I have messed around with openrc a bit and I'm planning to switch to that or runit whenever I next rebuild my PC or otherwise wipe the OS for some reason. I can only speak for myself, but I didn't understand the systemd hate until I actually started writing my own service files for things. I found it extremely cumbersome to have to dig through docs and github issues to find the right combination of options to get your script to actually do the thing you want it to.

yes btw i use arch

RC + slackware

runit rocks systemd isn't an init program, it's a whole suite of daemons.

Nope, SysVinit with BSD-Style scripts on Slackware. Of course, I use systemd at work, and it’s fine, but it’s confusing and huge. I am not against learning how to use it inside and out, but I’m trying my best to avoid that because I have better uses for my time. At home I just use BSD-style scripts on my Slackware installation, which are easy - WYSIWYG.

>>34470 Ask the OP.

systemd just werks

>>34354 I use Arch (btw) and use systemd as it is the standard. I understand why people don't like it and think about checking out artix or something like that, but currently everything works pretty well. Maybe if I set up a new system I'll try one of the alternatives

No. Because it's not just an init system, it's a huge, tangled web of cancer with tendrils spreading to every part of linux.

>>34354 I dont use it . I installed void on a x86 machine and then found out runit just werks and less ram usage . Then i installed void on my main machine. And now i hate systemd

>>34373 >keep hearing people complain about Poettering or whatever xir/zozzle's name is, and wonder what he's done to be considered an asshat At first I thought it was just bloated and potentially backdoored, but at last I truly see. Devuan here I coom

I use runit because it's super simple and intuitive and it gets the job done.

>>34373 Wow this is the first time I've heard of this and as someone who actually uses alternatives like OpenNIC and OpenDNS I am genuinely outraged. How many times have I been funneled back to Google's spyware without realizing it when my normal DNS servers are down...

>>34640 Before you get too angry, it doesn't actually do that on many OSs. >Unless all four conditions are true, this path does not happen at all. [Two of the conditions are: - You do not have DNS set up via DHCP, - You do not have DNS set up via /etc/resolv.conf] >In Fedora, Red Hat Enterprise Linux/CentOS, Mageia, openSUSE/SUSE Linux Enterprise, Debian, [...], systemd-resolved is disabled by default. That means this has no effect. >You have to explicitly turn on systemd-resolved and have those conditions I mentioned above be true. source: https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6hzaxx/systemd_falls_back_to_google_nameservers_when_no/dj2fvl3/ (mid-2017) No excuse for a soykaf default, but it's not as horrible as it sounds.

>>34631 Honestly the thing that got me on the anti Poetterware hate train was trying to figure out how to do things with systemd, not finding clear documentation, finally finding someone else asking the same thing in a github issue, and finding a poettering response to the github issue saying "you don't need to do this, just use <other poetterware that doesn't offer the features I want> instead". Dude is an egomaniac. I always hated pulseaudio because I mostly know my soykaf when it comes to audio/DSP and my audio setup is pretty specialized. For a while I was fine with systemd because I just accepted the defaults and it mostly worked. But then as soon as I started having more demanding configuration requirements the exact same class of issues I dealt with in pulse cropped up with systemd. Mostly that it tries to monopolize everything and funnel you to the lowest common denominator solution that works pretty well for most people but totally breaks in weird ways when you try to modify it.

>>34490 >btw i use artix ftfy

>>34641 My lineage-based phone at least falls back to hurricane electric. >>34640 It is like kicking dead whales down the beach. Better if you set up a router with preferably a custom firmware and use doh(443)/dot(853) while blocking all dns(53) traffic on the router and your machine too. I've heard there's opennic servers that use doh/dot now. >>34521 There's not a lot of difference that is coming from me who installed arch about at least 15 times. At best my shutdown times were faster and doesn't last 30 minutes, or I wouldn't have to deal with systemd journal crap and its invasive dumping of my entire RAM into disk after a segfault which killed my slow and old drive. The only not so big issues while installing artix: I reinstalled artix and base/base-devel no longer provides cryptsetup and xfsprogs, I thought I fuarrrked up my install or my drive got corrupt but it turned out that those packages weren't included with my new install. You'll need to write your own init scripts for systemctl counterparts (if not available) or simply find one available on your repo (example is displaymanager-openrc). Sometimes it fails to update due to arch mirrorlist being older than artix mirrorlist so you'll need to use a good score arch mirror. There is artix-keyring. If you use an old net installer, this means it has old keys which you must refresh first or your install fails signature checks. You also need to refresh archlinux-keyring too. >>34689 I've noticed a huge audio quality drop when I used a distro with plasma-pa after formerly using kde distro with pulseaudio-alsa. It's like the defaults are way worse than a system with struggling windows audio processing. https://github.com/andres-jurado/audiophile-linux. I still use pulseaudio-alsa but I think I'll move on once I find a pulseeffects equivalent and make vanilla alsa completely compatible with kmix (or at least provide me audio control in plasma).

>>34716 I just straight up don't have pulse installed. I use jack with a loopback alsa device for compatibility (since Jack isn't well supported natively). It's not for everyone, but like I said I generally know what I'm doing when it comes to PC audio so I favor control and predictability over "smart" autoconfiguration that breaks in mysterious ways.

>Do you use systemd? Yes >Why? Cause it came with my Manjaro, and I don't have other choice to accept it :(

I just want a pulse alternative with per-application volume control. Is that so much to ask for?

I love systemd. It's very nice to be able to create applications with logging and good startup behavior just by creating one file. It has never done me wrong.

I use runit since it is Void's init system. I may opt for something like Arch or NixOS instead in the future (with systemd of course).

>>34725 Can you tell me how to setup that alsa loopback for jack up?

>>35105 Well, you have the choice to migrate to Artix, it's just a question of whether it's worth the effort.

>>34354 >Do you use systemd? No >Why? It's a bloated, badly written botnet cancer that spits in the face of the UNIX philosophy >If you don't, what init system you use? S6 and 66 on obarun

I'm not sure why unix philosophy violation is considered a real reason to dislike systemd. Raw text/binary pipes don't really compose well. Try to do any table or matrix-like stuff when any of the fields could contain any combination of characters, meaning that you cannot assume any character can safely be used as a separator. Meanwhile a structured data composition scheme, whether objects or something else, can just easily keep the metadata required to properly operate on the data. Instead of judging systemd by the standards of a system which itself has major flaws, why not instead call systemd out on its actual faults? For example, it fuarrrks non-retrocompatibly with anacron/cron because it doesn't accept forking in jobs. Or how its advanced features are horribly badly documented and require you to read up the source to make sure of some use-cases and edge-cases. >>34373 I suspect all container runtimes have the same issues. Feels bad. Might be worth nullrouting those IPs, because a lot of programs have similar problems. >>34354 I'm unfortunately stuck using systemd because Debian defaulted to it, and because most configuration management systems (like Ansible) assume that's what you're using.

>Do you use systemd? Yes. >Why? Because I learned how to use Debian and Devuan is woeful.

>>35354 GNU/Linux is not UNIX.

>>35360 >I suspect all container runtimes have the same issues. Feels bad. Might be worth nullrouting those IPs, because a lot of programs have similar problems. "a lot of programs" like those you thought of are ring 3. Systemd in its final form is a backdoor for targeted DNS or similar network exploits working with ring negatives. >needs chroot as user to view "binary logs" >systemd-coredump >it tries to be windows registry and windows task scheduler which it exactly is >can fuarrrk with UEFI firmware like that alienware guy and it may do on its own with specially crafted holy-grail ring negative exploits. >>34499 ^ It's task scheduler or should i say a ring negative backdoor scheduler over network overflow exploit of some sort.

>>34354 I use openrc because I like it. I don't hate systemd. I've read the good and bad things about it. I feel more secure not using it. If you like it, stick with it. If you feel anxious putting trust into it, branch out. Here's a neat thing to think about: It's easy to convert a non-systemd distribution into one that uses systemd. The hard part is converting a systemd distribution into any other init system. In an abstract sense, systemd owns your machine.

>>34471 If it means anything, people run docker containers on openbsd by first running an Alpine Linux virtual machine, then a docker instance within it. In Devuan (openrc), docker seems to be installable from the repositories. I wonder if it runs well natively :)

>>35354 Would you ever consider dating a girl who, Stallman forgive, likes systemd?

I hate it because it was always running useless tasks on shutdown when I was still an Arch Linux hipster. It also comes with way too much utilities that I simply don't use. Worst part is probably that there are developers that create programs which depend on systemd which is just plain stupid because Linux revolves around customization.