Decentralized protocols are getting centralized

>E-mail Everyone uses gmail or hotmail and their respective webclients >Matrix Everyone uses matrix.org and element >The internet itself Everything's in the hypertext transfer protocol (secure), and if this wasn't enough, they use cloudflare >XMPP I think XMPP is the only decentralized protocol that it's actually decentralized, there are LOTS of servers and clients What are lain's thoughts on this? (also idk if i should post this here or in /sec)

>>32272 >Mail This is happening. I have closed an account on a website because they did not accept my mailhost at the time. I contacted support and they roundabout told me to use another e-mail and would not whitelist my address (I was a client for years). I asked them to close my account then. It's inconvenient and pedantic but it's the only way. >Matrix Matrix.org is overloaded, so people are starting to use other servers. It doesn't matter on Matrix since you can message people cross-server just like XMPP (right?) Element is crap but having a stable main client will indirectly help other clients get out of alpha/beta and become stable alternatives. >The Internet At this point it's just a rotting carcass, let it rot. Websites and people who care can still make non-cancer websites. Just like with email you should tell the owner that their crap site doesn't work on your browser, or that you won't use the site until they remove ReCaptcha. If enough people do it then something might change, as there are other Captcha services already. As far as e-commerce goes you can't escape it. >XMPP >it's actually decentralized, there are LOTS of servers and clients And it's already overshadowed by Matrix. A bit of centralization is necessary as a kickstarter. What really needs work is the people. The protocols are great, the internet is fine, it's the people who need to change.

>>32272 >email I use smtp and imap for my personal. My edu email cannot be helped. >matrix I do not use this. I use IRC with tls/ssl. >The internet itself I certainly don't care for http[s] nor cloudflare and so on. However, Lainchan exists and that is pretty cool. There are other websites where I can grab files (such as literature and lectures.) -- Although I would prefer it if I could simply use xdcc for such a thing.

>>32274 >>it's actually decentralized, there are LOTS of servers and clients >And it's already overshadowed by Matrix. A bit of centralization is necessary as a kickstarter. No, it isn't overshadowed by matrix, i've seen more XMPP users than matrix users, XMPP is way better than matrix for privacy (OMEMO and PGP encryption for XMPP, and only OLM (Literally what?) for matrix) Also, you said it, element is crap, and the other clients are even worse. So there's literally no reason to use Matrix over XMPP >inb4 voip Conversations (android) supports VoIP, and Gajim (desktop) does as well, and dino is working on VoIP support

>>32277 I wasn't clear about the overshadowed by Matrix part. I meant in terms of common users. I know a lot of organizations, governments, etc. use XMPP, but I rarely see XMPP mentioned at all among the common public, because it's not sponsored by anything. There are way more chances of finding someone on Matrix than on XMPP right now. And I know XMPP is more secure, time-tested and overall a better standard.

>>32274 >It doesn't matter on Matrix since you can message people cross-server just like XMPP (right?) Matrix is a state-sharing protocol. Groupchats exist in their entirety on every participating server so you can imagine how inefficient matrix's model of federation is and how much of a hurdle it is to maintain a running server. >>32277 >OLM (Literally what?) It is similar to signal protocol, with megolm being the variant adapted for groupchats. It is slightly less secure than signal, but more efficient in terms of computation and bandwidth when it comes to massive groups. Any matrix conversation is treated as a groupchat btw

>>32282 >Groupchats exist in their entirety on every participating server What was the reasoning behind this?

>>32272 >What are lain's thoughts on this? Examples you posted are not distributed, but just decentralized/federated - they all need a server. What we need are actually distributed architectures like Jami, where every user is a peer, not a client connecting to a server. The Internet is going in a bad direction, I hope GNUnet will catch up fast enough, until it's too late.

There are very little advantages on actual decentralization, that's why people prefer to flock to services that commit to not violate your privacy instead of making that additional effort.

>>32283 The thing is, unlike xmpp, matrix is not a simple message passing protocol. The idea is to share and synchronize state, somewhat like a git repo. This is what they advertise on their homepage: >complete with end-to-end encryption, file transfer, synchronised conversation history, formatted messages, read receipts and more >Conversations are replicated over all the servers participating in them, meaning there are no single point of control or failure.

>>32288 Yeah at this point I still prefer xmpp but I think matrix has more of a future.

>>32289 >I think matrix has more of a future. I disagree, imo the xmpp way is better. Simple and extensibile protocol. Light and easy to run securely on your own. It may lack some bells and whistles, but there is nothing preventing you from adding them in. It's already battle tested, truly a rock-solid solution offering a great choice of both client and server implementations. It's been around for a while now and it's not going anywhere. Matrix is nothing like that. It's all bells and whistles but the underlying protocol is inherently flawed and unsuitable for self-hosting. In addition, what previous posters have already brought up, matrix world is dominated by one default homeserver and one reference implementation (Element). Where is federation in that? Matrix may as well sell at some point and that would be the end of story, independent development is still fresh with that platform. Matrix is not claiming to compete with XMPP, it's really not cut out for this. I just hope they can eventually phase out some popular proprietary solutions.

>>32293 I will have to disagree, mostly because XMPP's spec is too ill-defined to implement it from spec & have it work with most servers/clients. Matrix meanwhile also has major scaling issues due to the implementation (I suppose that isn't strictly-speaking a Matrix issue).

>>32296 https://xmpp.org/extensions/ With the amount of literature on the topic you don't even need to go down to spec if it's confusing you. Besides, IM is not the only appliance of the protocol, so compatibility with existing clients is not always what one would strive for.

>>32272 >Everyone uses gmail or hotmail Not me. Also email was never decentralized, you need a central server in order to even have an email address. >Everyone uses matrix.org and element Who is this "Everyone" you keep talking about? >Everything's in the hypertext transfer protocol No. As for Cloudflare, people use it because there is no better anti-DDOS service. It sounds like you don't even know what 'decentralized' means. Sounds to me like you just don't like what other people in your circle are using because you can't stand to be involved in anything remotely mainstream.

>>32307 >email was never decentralized Even better, it is federated.

>>32296 >major scaling issues due to the implementation It's like putting up a website, but everytime someone wants to post an external link - you fetch a copy of the target and mirror it yourself instead. That is a protocol level issue. It makes hosting much more challenging for individuals. Obviously, the inefficient implementation doesn't help.

>>32311 That makes sense. It's been a while since I took a look at it, did they have some sort of tuning option so that you could fetch only part of the tree/log? >>32306 I will grant the possibility it may be the IM extensions which aren't sufficiently accurately described, as I am primarily a user rather than a dev, as far as XMPP goes, and most of my knowledge pertaining to that is the result of reading blog posts on such compatibility issues.

>>32274 >Element is crap Forgive the kind of sidetracking from OP here but my god is it ever! I was pretty late into the update from riot.im, I think I just switched over a couple weeks ago. It crashes at least twice per day, the notifications hardly work (which I'm told is because I don't have Google Play Services on my phone), and I have to do these weird trial and error tricks to get it to work properly at all. Like I've noticed that if I minimize the app and go back to it, it seems to drop the connection to the server, and I have to actually shut down the app and open again just to receive messages that were sent in that time. I sound like an angry old man who can't figure out his new laptop, but my god Element makes me upset. It even makes me look bad in turn because I was the one who suggested Matrix to my peers to keep in touch since I was deleting Facebook... Anyways, kind of on topic: the matrix.org servers are definitely proving to be unreliable. I want to host my own for personal use but haven't gotten around to doing so yet. But I wonder if true decentralized peer-to-peer like Jami is better altogether... >email Anyone here host their own? I've been wanting to try out https://mailinabox.email/ lately but again, haven't had the time so far. I already have a domain name registered and I don't think it costs much extra to add email to it, but I'd have to check. I think that's the best way to go about complaints about email. Add GnuPG to your communications too if you're worried about the receiver using Gmail (which yes, you should worry about) >the internet Can someone give me a rundown on the deal with Cloudflare? I don't actually know much about it or why it's bad. Even links to read would be appreciated. Also, I came across this list recently that I think people here would be interested in (or maybe I found it here on lainchan and forgot...) https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted

>>32313 >it seems to drop the connection to the server That's the matrix.org server, it's overloaded. Register somewhere else, like chat.privacytools.io >Can someone give me a rundown on the deal with Cloudflare? AFAIK it's a vulnerability since it injects code into web pages, and has a bad reputation because it's unwilling to censor the websites it services unless law enforcement explicitly asks, so terrorist and nazi websites use it.

>>32314 Hey thanks. I don't know if my particular issue here is with the server, because it's consistently only when I minimize the app (even if just for a split second) and open it again, and it gets fixed immediately after fully restarting the app. I definitely do get regular matrix.org server issues though.

Whenever I send email from my self-hosted address to gmail address it goes straight to spam, even when the recipient has also been emailing me and replying to my emails. I think google is doing the old embrace-extend-extinguish routine and it's annoying.

>>32320 What's infuriating is that people won't ask Google to fix their broken spam filter but simply tell the other person to use Gmail too.

Don't agree with OP. I use a popular "secure email" provider, private matrix and XMPP servers. The problem with private servers though, is that they are hard to maintain and might disappear one day. I guess, a solid foundation for decentralized communications should be built with crowdfounding a server and it's maintenance by sysadmins. Otherwise, it usually depends fully on one person's enthusiasm.

>>32320 I really despise how much power Google is getting over so many aspects of the World Wide Web and as you say when people encounter examples of Google using its power maliciously they just react "well this is why you should use $googleProduct" whether its web standards, search or email. The only hope at this stage would be anti-trusts being enacted but the US doesn't look like its going to do it anytime soon and god knows whats happening with the EU.

>>32313 >Can someone give me a rundown on the deal with Cloudflare? I don't actually know much about it or why it's bad. Even links to read would be appreciated. I don't have much time to tell reasons, but I'll leave a link to the crimeflare README repo. https://git.snopyta.org/crimeflare/cloudflare-tor

>>32272 (OP) A lot of these threads have the same exact content. We are tired of the internet and there needs to be a user rebellion. We need an alternative internet ( >>14586 ) that is more decentralized (Network Level/ Physical Level) We need alternative Standards to Web ( >>31913 , >>32071 ). We need a Web Ring for Personal , a corperate, small tech sites ( >>29660 ) We need To Use Tor Hidden Services ( >>24881 ) We need alternative chat clients , OSs and Browsers. I urge you to stop complaining and join the actual resistance by doing something. Take action today. Consider one of the following today: 1.) Try using the tor web browser for all your browsing. 2.) Create a Personal Web site and Join the Webring 3.) Switch to Linux 4.) Run a Tor Relay 5.) Start using PGP for all your personal email 6.) Delete Social Media and stop using non-E2E serviecs today. 7.) Switch to protonmail and start using the hidden service ( protonirockerxow.onion )to check your email Any action toward better is better than non-action. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

>>32350 >Create a personal website done, https://qorg11.net >Switch to linux Done, since 2012 >Run a tor relay I wish i could >Start using PGP I do, since 2017 >Switch to protonmail nah, selfhosted email ;)

>>32350 Relays get derezzed from a bunch of sites too (not just exits) so those users cannot access them with their own IP. It's not as dangerous to run as an exit, but it can be inconvenient.

>>32361 You can get a VPS for dirt cheap and most of them will allow tor relays while having the benefit of being a lot better suited to running tor and hopefully eventually becoming an entry guard which should make it harder for adversaries to launch deanonymisation attacks. If you really want to use your home IP for a relay then try a bridge node, they rarely get derezzed from places compared to even relays.

>>32352 good website, it was fun seeing where the banners get me and read the things in it

>>32272 Does xmpp allow for bridges to other services such as IRC, Discord, etc. like Matrix does? If so, how? That would be the feature that would make me switch off of Matrix.

>>32352 Your qorglaofrwqdj4is.onion appears to be down

>>32546 Yes, it is down. Where did you get that address? I thought i deleted it from my websites because i've deprecated v2 address because they're insecure. You can access qorg11.net via tor using http://lainwir3s4y5r7mqm3kurzpljyf77vty2hrrfkps6wm4nnnqzest4lqd.onion/

>>32545 Bridges aren't some special magical protocol feature, they're usually just simple-enough bots connected to both protocols/streams and repeating content from one to the other. Loop forever, Async-read input from stream-a stream-b, if from user repost to other stream. In a C-ish way, just put a select() on both sockets and have the handler push to the other with the right protocol on matching input.

>>32274 >Just like with email you should tell the owner that their crap site doesn't work on your browser, or that you won't use the site until they remove ReCaptcha This attitude will never work, and even if the world ends, while it is ending people will be laughing at "lmao that one autistic entitled crypto nerd guy"

>>32611 >>Just like with email you should tell the owner that their crap site doesn't work on your browser, or that you won't use the site until they remove ReCaptcha >This attitude will never work, and even if the world ends, while it is ending people will be laughing at "lmao that one autistic entitled crypto nerd guy" Oh, yeah? I happen to fail that Turing test more often than not. Nerd? Not at all. Entitled? Go eat spotted dick! Autistic? Maybe. Burgerland should sue Alphabet from conducing such false discrimination.

>Everything's in the hypertext transfer protocol (secure) So? It's a generic protocol. My concern is with the behemoths we call web-browsers. Of course some diversity would be nice. >>32350 >We are tired of the internet and there needs to be a user rebellion. One thing to note is that rebellion is a slow plodding process of cultivating a culture of freedom in yourself and your immediate surroundings. Before we can change things, we must organize, and set-up the organization so that no matter what the situation, rebellion is always viable. >Any action toward better is better than non-action. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. To emphasize: any action toward better is better than non-action. Note: non-action is often the best action: sometimes anything you might do would only make things worse. >We need a Web Ring No, what we need is to exercise some goddamn taste, and patience. There are plenty of gems out there, but we ignore them because we're served crap first. >We need alternative chat clients , OSs and Browsers. We need total modularity and neat interfaces. Each person chooses the neat interface he likes best, >Try using the tor web browser for all your browsing. Try cURL first. >Switch to Linux Let me uninstall OpenBSD first. >Start using PGP for all your personal email I can't do that. And I never did. Parents can be quite fun sometimes in that they create your identity for you before you were even conceived. >Switch to protonmail and start using the hidden service ( protonirockerxow.onion )to check your email Let me delete my cockmail first.

>>32272 Email was never decentralized. Nor is XMPP. Stop trying to rename things. You spergs already had "federated" for this. The idea of having a "server" run by some fuarrrkjob that somehow is tied to your identity is pure idiocy. >>32350 >7.) Switch to protonmail and start using the hidden service ( protonirockerxow.onion )to check your email First, protonmail blocks tor users from signing up (asks for phone or donation). Second, using the onion doesn't provide additional security. Third, v2 onions are insecure (but that bullshit probably relies on HTTPS anyway). Like other guy said, cock.li is better. >>32635 >Before we can change things, we must organize Done. I put my waifu3291.png in ~/downloads/waifus >Try cURL first. >Hurr durr muh CLI. ==Day of the seal soon.== You'll know what this means when it happens. >>Start using PGP for all your personal email >I can't do that. And I never did. You can, and whatever joke you're trying to make here is irrelevant. Just give your key to your friend in person.

>>32722 DAY OF THE SEAL SOON fixed

>>32722 that pingu is badass

>>32723 What does it means someone put that in my guestbook and i'd say it was some of you

>>32730 Same autist again and again. Using it as some kind of apocalyptic threat. Sounds a lot like 'day of rope' poltards used to spew.

Companies realized that what really keeps them relevant is the userbase. Userbase centralization. It's like a game of agar.io to be honest, when they're so big they can just do what they want and its been tried and tested that no ones ever tried to draw the anti-trust card ever. Once there exist a startup that could possibly cut that userbase even by 1/5th the giant companies would do all their best to crush it or buy it then crush it. This is why the phone market is stuck, browser market. Meanwhile the PC/Laptops are different but the big monopolies seems to focus on getting Linux to stay as a hobby/craft scene while the 2 monopolies (of mobile+browser and pc+laptops) leech off of free and open source works of those hobbyists and make millions easily from it.

>>32275 >Lainchan exists Last place left on the net.

What's the point in using "decentralized" protocols when everyone's ISP are Facebook Online and Googlecast?

>>32810 pic relateds

>>32819 Should I repeat that both the guard and exit nodes, the servers themselves will be hosted on respective networks of either of those two ISPs? It's like downloading torrents from SOPA servers and thinking you won't get a lawsuit in your mailbox.

>>32895 From my country (among others) you won't, because unless you resell there's jackshit they can do.

>>32272 >Matrix >Everyone uses matrix.org and element I don't see a big problem in people using element, it's open source anyway. The bigger problem is the centralization around matrix.org. The reason why so many people use it is probably that there aren't that many good servers out there that have registration open. And that's probably largely caused by the fact that the current server implementation (synapse) is not very efficient, making hosting a big public server expensive. The next generation server implementation (dendrite) is supposed to fix a lot of the performance issues. I host my own server and it works fine. However, it's not exactly lightweight. The big rooms with 1000< users are sometimes problematic and cause spikes in memory/cpu usage, but smaller rooms work fine.

>>33852 making XMPP much better

>>32326 >The problem with private servers though, is that they are hard to maintain and might disappear one day. >I guess, a solid foundation for decentralized communications should be built with crowdfounding a server and it's maintenance by sysadmins. Otherwise, it usually depends fully on one person's enthusiasm. This is true. Ideally there probably should be at least two or three (competent) admins and the server costs should be funded with donations and/or small fees from users. That way the future of the server wouldn't depend on the financial situation and commitment of a single person. However, the challenge is to find a group of people to do the administration, and another challenge is that people generally don't want to pay if they don't absolutely have to.

>>32819 Are there any good I2P communities?

>>34188 Kelvinchan is the only one i can think of

>>32350 > Any action toward better is better than non-action. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Well put anon. Perfectionism is not always virtuous. This is applicable in many aspects of life.

>>32296 You may be interested in following the progress of Dendrite (github.com/matrix-org/dendrite). Most of the scaling problems come from the fact that Synapse is pure soykaf (probably because it's written in Python). While Dendrite is only in Beta it is quickly approaching usability- just don't expect to use it in encrypted rooms yet, because federation is incomplete.

>lainons saying that matrix.org and element is a problem For any platform to become mainstream there has to be a default option that is easy for the normal person to pick up and use- Matrix would probably be dead by now if Element didn't push matrix.org so hard. Ultimately I don't think it will be a problem as New Vector isn't Google and probably won't ever imitate them (for example using spam filters that kill off any conversation from another server). Their purpose is to grow the Matrix foundation, and nothing more. Think about how MoCo is run by the Mozilla Foundation.

>>33862 As I said in an earlier post about Dendrite, it's not a problem of spec, it's a problem of implementation. Dendrite should be finished soon (tm).

>>32313 Frequent Matrix user here, who tracks the development of different clients and homeserver implementations. You may just want to switch to a different client. I prefer gomuks as it just runs in my terminal, but many of my friends prefer Mirage. Obviously there's no VoiP support in a terminal client so Element has to stay around for that (and pictures). Otherwise I can just use gomuks for text. Also you don't have to host your own homeserver if you can't afford it- just avoid matrix.org, mozilla.org, tchncs.de, privacytools.io, and halogen.city.

>>34877 Did you just imply a Google's sockpuppet Mozilla is a good example for how to organize a software development?

well xmpp kind of is like kicking dead whales down the beach ass and so do the clients more than half of them are broken and their so called encryption almost never works right its basically just gimped irc with extra work and 1000 different (usually brokenn) registration processes

>>35040 >more than half of them are broken and their so called encryption almost never works right It doesn't help that there's about a half-dozen XMPP encryption "standards". As a regular user I used to be a big fan of XMPP (decentralized! easy to set up a server! no phone number registration! yay!), until I tried to program a secure XMPP chatbot and was exposed to how the XML sausage is made.

>>34876 >Synapse is pure soykaf (probably because it's written in Python) Yeah, never understood that one myself. Cold day in hell before I run a server in an interpreted, dynamically-typed language with a concurrency model so useless that it might as well be nonexistent, like Python and its spiritual sibling Javascript. >You may be interested in following the progress of Dendrite (github.com/matrix-org/dendrite). >Dendrite is a second-generation Matrix homeserver written in Go. Hell to the yes. Now there's a language well-suited to servers. I've just looked through the Dendrite code a bit. Nice and clean and well-commented. Contributors obviously give a damn about maintainability. I've got a good feeling about this project.

>>35066 >Yeah, never understood that one myself. My naive guess is that it was made as a prototype that just became the de-facto best client and just kept getting developed until the project got off the ground. Scripting languages like Python are very useful for cheap and rapid prototyping or reference implementations, but it should usually be replaced by a proper rewrite. I'm guessing it was never intended to be the final official server software.

>>34933 They weren't always as bad as they are now. Hell, I use Chromium browsers myself. However, there does need to be a "default client" such as Element that is easy to use for the normal person, and a group of people that officially advertises Matrix.

>>35067 Synapse is marked as a reference implementation, but most people realize it's just a huge hinderance at this point.

>>35077 here Anyway, what I meant to say about MoFo/MoCo is that in their heyday it worked really well. Ultimately Firefox failed because of Google's marketing, but initially the people running it set it up pretty well. It's just that the people who made Mozilla great are long gone and the only people left are maggots feasting on the corpse for cash (Mitchell Baker).

>>35066 too bad Go as a language was made by Google

>>35106 >too bad Go as a language was made by Google Not really. Go was made by people on Google's payroll, but who had the freedom to build the language as they saw fit. And considering that many of the people involved were the same people who were deeply involved in C's early development (either with the language itself or the Unix environment that intimately tied into it), I'd say they did a very good job. Now if you want to see a genuine made-by-google-committee soykafshow language, witness the awful banality of Dart, a language so sad and pathetic that not even bottom-of-the-barrel webdevs bother with it. It's a language so haphazardly slapped together that not even the standard types have consistent capitalization. ints and doubles and Strings and bools and Lists, what the fuarrrk?

>>32275 What IRC servers do you hang out on? Only Snoonet and Freenode have lots of users left. Rest IRC servers have much fewer users.

>>35077 Use ungoogled Chromium based browsers. Lots of forks out there.

As somebody who has not used modern social media for years, I just installed a fresh Android system image on an Emulator and spent a couple of hours trying to use this virtual device without registering my life away into personalized google accounts plus mobile phone numbers and subtley hidden synchronization agreements to fingerprint and datamine all of my digital behaviour. The whole system is designed to centralize data and associate real world persona through google owned services. The modern average internet usage is centralized to an absolutely ridiculous degree. I'd like to see a few more ActivityPub Protocol implementations become more popular to drive mainstream social media into a decentralized direction.

>>32272 Sigh, from where I am, people use WhatsApp and/or Telegram for groups and Teams/Meet for video stuff. XMPP based clients is alien here.

>>35115 Yes, using Android without Google is getting tougher since Google is quite deeply integrated. Yet, to a certain extent it is possible. Clients like Aurora Store allow installing and updating apps bypassing the Play Store. Via ADB, you can uninstall Chrome and other bloated stuff. Using with out Google account is still somewhat possible. What client are you emulating Android on? Bluestacks or Genymotion on PC?

>>35117 Yes, I basically went from Google account creation with optional phone number insertion to Google Playstore insisting on entering my phone number for verification. From Google Playstore I therefore switched to Aurora Store. From Aurora Store I installed Telegram. Telegram asked right away for my phone number for verification, so I searched for apps that provide me with a temporary phone number. Those free temporary phone number apps asked me to log in via my google or facebook account. I just spent hours trying to run away from account verifications while clicking away datamining agreements, until I remembered, that I came to take a look at the current state of social media and could easily just walk away again, which I did. >>35116 Whatsapp is XMPP based afaik, but I get your point, as in "decentralized" xmpp based software.

>>35117 sry for double post. I use the 'official' android emulator based on qemu (without android studio ontop). Running on a debian linux stable distribution.

>>32272 Most people I see on matrix don't use matrix.org.

>>32272 Matrix isn't as bad as it may seem, with Dendrite in development and other homeservers gaining in popularity.

>>35119 All big social networks and even google used to support XMPP clients during it's first boom years to interact with internal private message systems or even inter-server, you could message from google to yandex to livejournal and facebook via xmpp no problem in 2006~2008. Later they either closed outside connections or forked xmpp into their own proprietary messaging "apps" that still exist today. Well, all modern chats are just an abstraction of an abstraction of skeumorph representation of amateur CB radio after all, digested through the technological-progress-centipede.

>Everyone uses... Cease defaming me. >You can [use PGP for all your personal mail], and whatever joke you're trying to make here is irrelevant. No, I can't. And there's nothing jocular about disabilities.

>>35120 Ooh, nice. I have used Debian and it was rock solid in stability though it's repos could sometimes have old software. I used Genymotion back in the day but haven't emulated Android on PC in quite some time. There is an android x86 project dedicated to running Android as a full fledged OS on computers. Have you tried it?

>>35191 How's the user base there? Is it getting more popular day per day?

>>35263 Google's message apps require a dedicated thread of their own. They have started and shut down so many of them. Talking of integration, Facebook announced cross messaging between Messenger and Instagram. I have never used the latter's messaging service. I wonder how it is now.

>>35298 >Google's message apps require a dedicated thread of their own. They have started and shut down so many of them. I once had a funny conversation with a relative who works middle-management at Rogers (Canadian mobile/ISP/TV company). She was talking about how Rogers was getting onboard with the new Google-backed RCS chat thing. She seemed completely oblivious to Google's chat app history, knowing only the business/sales side of things. She was genuinely shocked when I asked if Google was going to kill it in a year like they do with all their chat efforts, and listed what they've killed in the past.

>>35306 There latest apps are Allo for texting and Duo for calling, right? But the former has gotten little traction and Google doesn't even promote it and/or trying to add more features to it.

>>35709 Duo is still alive for video and audio calls, and Google claims that it's end-to-end encrypted. But it's closed source so who knows. Allo (their weird experimental texting app) has been shut down for about a year and a half. Some of its tech lives on in what they confusingly call "Chat", which is a "standard" called RCS that they want to bake into new international telecom standards as an SMS/MMS replacement. RCS is exactly what you'd expect to come from design committees staffed by Google and telecom companies: no end-to-end encryption, with Google being the storage point and relay for all messages. Anyone who has an android phone might want to check if Google's Messages app is installed, and if so, make sure "Chat features" is turned off. That's RCS.

>>35717 God I fuarrrking hate how much power these megacorporations are gaining over every single standard. It wasn't great in the past but they've somehow figured out to make it even worse to the point that http/3 is a Google protocol designed purely to aid google with everything else being secondary.

>>35717 I gave Allo a try back in the day but it never got much traction in the messaging world. I am aware of RCS and Google's new found love for it, integrating it with their messages app and all that. I am still hoping that they will soon launch a new full fledged messaging app. :p

People here soykaf on matrix, and while I know that it will probably never be the best option for perfect privacy/anonymity, I think that it's the most promising messaging option for use cases where you don't need to be totally anonymous (like messaging people that you actually know). It's a bit heavy on resources but it's not really as big of an issue as people make it out to be. The biggest rooms with 1000's of people are sometimes a bit slow but there's really not that much use for rooms that big anyway, smaller rooms and private messages work just fine if you aren't using a server that runs on some total soykafbox.

>>35836 Personally my issue with Matrix is that the reference server is a pain to install and maintain, and the reference client slaughters phones' battery life. I think this is one of the places where XMPP maintains a massive edge over Matrix. If you want to run your own XMPP server and chat on your phone, it's basically just a matter of getting a cheapo VPS somewhere, pointing a domain at it, apt install'ing certbot and super-lightweight-on-resources prosody, and adding the domain name to the prosody config. Then install easy-on-batteries Conversations on your phone and you're golden. More server software ought to be like Prosody. I'm in the middle of writing a secure web forum, and I'm using Prosody's ease of installation and zero-maintenance reliability as my guiding design principles.

>>32722 speaking of cock.li, why the fuarrrk are most email providers not decrypting my pgp

TOR is being centralized?! How?