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Anyone here use Alpine Linux? I started using it in LXC containers because it's so small but I've come to like it so much that I'm considering running it instead of arch on my home server. For whatever reason it doesn't seem to get brought up very often among the typical non-systemd distros (probably because you'd have to jump through a fair amount of hoops to use it on a desktop) but it seems like a great option for simple servers/VPS use. >https://www.alpinelinux.org/about/ >musl and busybox instead of GNU >openrc >stable and rolling release options It's apparently also a fairly hardened kernel but I don't know enough to comment on that.

Looks decent. It's incredibly different than something like Ubuntu or Red Hat so just be aware of the differences. Overall not a bad OS though. But I'd recommend you stick with what you know how to maintain, because that'll give you less problems in the end. It's not specifically mean to be a server OS like Debian/Ubuntu/Centos are.

Would you recommend Alpine as a container host distro?

>>31092 I've only ever used it inside containers but I guess I'll let you know if I ever end up running it directly on my server.

In all honesty, it's much better suited for building a high performance router. Get it running a dhcp server, nftables, and a decent dns cache proxy and you have a damn good router. Also, you could get snort or similar IDS/IPS running and you'll know when port scans and soykaf start coming your way. I've been wanting to do this for a while now. When I do, Alpine will be my first distro of choice.

>>31101 What about it do you think makes it unsuitable for a server? Not disagreeing, just curious.

I didn't want to make a new thread just for this but does anyone use Liquorix kernel? https://liquorix.net/

>>31064 It has a CoC too

>>31327 Your mom has a CoC.

>>31327 you rightoids are just as bad a the libtoids imo. your both snowflakes just on the opposite sides of the political spectrum.

>>31327 They fuarrrking all do at this point. If you don't want one with a CoC you're down to about 2 obscure distros.

>>32002 Not him but I know one thing for sure: I have been labeled a leftoid in predominantly right-wing channels but I was never derezzed. On the other hand I regularly see right-wingers derezzed from left-wing channels as soon as they start arguing. The CoC stuff is far more damaging to the environment, it kills meritocracy and enabled attention seekers and sociopaths to get on top of the ladder on the basis that they're deserving of special protection. I hate this thought police soykaf, settle these issues on a case by case basis. Why did I have to live to see this 1984 soykaf? I hoped I would die while things were still not so awful

>>32322 >>31327 Have you guys actually read the CoC or did you just see the name and get triggered? It's really not that bad. Basically the same behavior that would have already been expected of you in any such project, except actually codified. https://www.alpinelinux.org/community/code-of-conduct.html

>>32330 There's no real need for Code of Conduct in tech projects. At best it's spinless community leaders bending the knee to a highly divisive and authoritarian political agenda. At worst they create needless drama and conflict by splitting people into protected and unprotected groups. Having said that, the Alpine one does look sensibly worded.

>>32344 I think they're generally a good idea, especially in larger projects like alpine. If you set clear expectations up front as to how people must behave in community chats/forums etc. and in their capacity as a representative of the project it can actually reduce drama (as long as the rules are fair and clearly written). The problem is just that some projects can overstep their reasonable authority and try to police what people do in spaces unrelated to the project, rather than simply requiring that people do not let their political views influence their behavior in the project. Kneejerk opposition to CoCs is largely identity politics bullshit though imo. This is kind of derailing the thread though so I'm going to stop posting about it.

>>32353 Sorry for the double post. Just wanted to add that this is the only rule I think could use more specificity in alpine's coc: >Discrimination based on, but not limited to, individuality or technological preference is not allowed. I think they intended this to mean within the context of administrative activities within alpine's development (e.g. "we're not going to consider so and so's pull request because he's a glitterboy" or "we don't want women involved in this project") but I could see it being stretched beyond that scope because the wording is vague.

>>32353 You're right that having a set of groundrules is a good thing but the problem with CoCs in many projects is that they are intended just for identity politics scheming with wording that allows the implementers to just boot whoever is in their way. On the surface there is nothing wrong with them but thats mostly deliberate so people won't be able to object before they go bad. Although this particular CoC doesn't look particularly objectionable and if you were to avoid every project that was pressured into implementing a CoC you would find yourself limited to a rapidly diminishing subset of software so you just have to grit your teeth and deal with them.

>>32356 >the wording is vague. That's exactly the line I thought was good because it's inclusive instead of divisive. Most CoCs make an explicit list of protected groups, and then those people end up getting entitled and bitchy against the non-protected people. You also end up with double standards where the exact same behavior is punished when one person does it but ignored when someone else does it just because they belong to different identity groups. And last but not least, in reality CoCs are not actually used to protect people as much as they are used as a stick to attack rivals within projects. Tech projects should just get one with being tech projects instead of getting dragged down by politics and lawyer games. >Kneejerk opposition to CoCs is largely identity politics bullshit though imo. What has this got to do with my identity? Insisting that everything is identity politics is the only real identity politics. I oppose CoCs as a concept because they detract from the true aims of projects and have a history of failing disastrously and tearing projects apart. Big examples are FreeBSD whose donations and contributors have fallen off a cliff since they adopted one in 2016. In 2017 NodeJS was forked and purged of many good developers when a clique tried to use the CoC to ban a developer they didn't like personally. When you look into what happens to projects that adopt CoCs and how CoCs actually get used, none of it is positive.

>>32353 >Kneejerk opposition to CoCs is largely identity politics bullshit Is the "kneejerk" reaction to it more or less bullshit than the idpol bullshit that fueled the fiasco to begin with?

>>32385 >That's exactly the line I thought was good because it's inclusive instead of divisive. It's vague because it doesn't say whether discriminatory attitudes that manifest outside the context of the project are included, and doesn't really outline what the confines of your involvement in the project are. Does your twitter account count if it has a link to your github in the bio? Do the things you say in a private chat count if the chat includes other contributors? That kind of thing. This has come into question enough times that it's worthwhile to be explicit, I think. I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said though. >I oppose CoCs as a concept because they detract from the true aims of projects and have a history of failing disastrously and tearing projects apart Fair enough I suppose. I'll try to be less dismissive. Still, I can't help but feel like there's a hell of an "us vs. them" dynamic going on when it comes to CoC drama, and that's why I characterized it as idpol. There are cases of CoCs (or bad actors leveraging CoCs) causing harm, but there's also plenty of other projects that adopted one and nothing happened. I don't think the fundamental concept of a CoC is the problem here. Most of the time I think people just can't decide what the rules should be, and that disagreement can easily spark a much greater conflict because it invites politicizing. Maybe that's reason enough to avoid them? I don't know if I'd go that far on my own, but I'd buy the argument. What I do disagree with is the blanket tearing down of (apparently) functional CoCs on principle. I get why you'd feel that way if you think every one is a powder keg, but I truly think having explicit rules that people can agree on ultimately reduces drama and conflict. The trouble is getting to that point.

>>32544 >I don't think the fundamental concept of a CoC is the problem here. the purpose of these signs, which are written in all caps, is to escalate political conflict. the system was begun in order to make software development more political. the people who started it were fully aware of this. are you denying that? that's the whole issue: the fact that it intentionally is meant to cause tension and anger, not just that it incidentally causes tension. I don't think you're actually trying to gaslight anyone here, but you seem extremely oblivious/naive.

>>32547 Please add proper references, or face the fate you criticize

>>32544 >There are cases of CoCs (or bad actors leveraging CoCs) causing harm, but there's also plenty of other projects that adopted one and nothing happened. >adopted one and nothing happened It doesn't matter if nobody complains about it publicly. After all, we're usually just too scared to raise our voice and risk having our life ruined for it. Do you realize how many of us feel a huge cortisol spike just seeing the filename of one of those things in a github repository? Don't you realize some of us literally have PTSD from the political environment we experienced while attending university, and that these things literally trigger us and make us feel physically sick? you compared us to being like the special snowflakes but on the other side of the political spectrum. I don't think you realize how accurate of a description that might be. the difference is we're not allowed to explain what it's like without being labelled as monsters, and we are very deliberately made to feel as unsafe and unwelcome as possible by the very same people who are outrageously claiming to represent justice.

>>31327 >>31356 >>32002 >>32104 >>32322 >>32330 >>32344 >>32353 >>32356 >>32360 >>32385 >>32539 >>32544 >>32547 >>32549 >>32550 I've noticed we've just started actively derailing this thread. I have my opinions, but honestly, I wouldn't want to see the Alpine thread go any more awkward because of them. Someone interested should open a "Code of Conduct: in Alpine" thread, which is what I propose. As a fellow lainon I kindly ask you to abstain that topic here, for the good of the thread. As for Alpine, I've flirted with it in passing. I did like what I saw but I don't use it actively. Offline documentation wasn't there, and I wasn't motivated to find out how to add it. Overall, this prevented me from using it for my purposes.

>>32551 >As a fellow lainon I kindly ask you to abstain that topic here, for the good of the thread. "fellow lainon"? why are you talking like some sort of robot to me? it's heartbreaking. I wrote a sincere response to you and now you're shutting down your own conversation?

I've tried Alpine via PostmarketOS on x86 and a pi before, and my only issue has to be that some of the stuff is poorly documented, particularly in the initramfs and in tweaking the package manager. This might have just been a straight PMOS issue or I'm a fool. But what I saw and used was actually very nice. Although I don't know why getting X up in it has to be such a pain. The reason I liked postmarket was that it had fde encryption by default just as an option via the bootstrap command, which I don't know why Alpine hasn't integrated it in to their system yet. It's probably the nicest option for installation I've ever seen, and PostmarketOS retards it by making usage of it ridiculous by making entering a 24 character password via keyboard take two minutes.

Since this is now a CoC thread let me show you a proper CoC >9FRONT CODE OF CONDUCT >1. It is better to share profits than to fight over them. >2. You have to be willing to go to war, but if violence is your only skill, you will lose in the end and die. >3. Murder is bad because it attracts attention. >4. If the police search your place, stay calm; do not act cocky; do not say more than necessary. >5. Live modestly, dress modestly, drive modestly, do not carry a gun. >6. Do not use drugs. >7. If you want to gamble and whore around, that’s fine, but do it somewhere far away, like Monaco or Marbella. >8. Go with French women or Spanish. Here in Secondigliano, don’t fuarrrk casually with other men’s wives and daughters. >Ages: 5 & Up I could email alpine devs and tell them they should use this one if you want

>>32566 >my only issue has to be that some of the stuff is poorly documented yeah, honestly the docs are on par with any somewhat niche distro, but this becomes more of a problem with alpine because it's so different from most distros (so you can't just rely on the arch wiki for everything). i assume it's easier for people coming from gentoo but from the arch or debian world it's all pretty alien. >PostmarketOS I only know it as "that distro you can run on pinephones". What's it like as a more conventional desktop-ish OS? >>32574 lmao

>>32575 >I only know it as "that distro you can run on pinephones". What's it like as a more conventional desktop-ish OS? Running it as a desktop would be fine, if it didn't make the process of getting X running as difficult as it is, it would be great if we lived in a cli world, but the best bet is to install XFCE and then debloat backwards without killing functionality to your preferred window manager. But this would lock you in to lightdm and no choosing which ever one you want. It's just a pain that requires more patience than I have. It's the only Distro that offers FDE for PDAs like the Gemini and most phones, and I think it would be really cool if they could achieve it with the iPhone model they have available or an iPad. They support FDE on ARM more than Debian or mainline Operating Systems from the manufacturer, why has no one copied this over yet? >pinephone thing This is where I get confused at it's package managment, it says you can install Lomiri, but no where in the repo is it there, you have to install it at bootstrap, but there is supposedly a tree for it somewhere. It and matchbox, which is supposedly no longer appropriately maintained so they dropped it, but it's lower resource demands might have made for a more stable system on release, or at least more tactile and responsive than what Phosh offers, and Phosh looks terrible in my opinion, while the KDE offering is just slow. It's like they saw more stable options to the left and right from groups like Maemo, and refused to integrate them in because for some reason Alpine has some brain damage regarding the QT Framework. I wish it gave you the option of using runit, since that would address a lot of the overhead OpenRC adds in my opinion, but this is more a personal quirk since Runit is just so much simpler to add things in at runtime than OpenRC, although it gives you less controls.

>>32574 >>9FRONT CODE OF CONDUCT cringemaxxed and a garbage OS

>>32353 >>32551 >derailing Are you serious? Did you expect an Alpine thread to reach 100 posts or what? Did you thought that an unpopular distro with specific features irrelevant to the average joe even on this board would reach the top reply count? You should have been grateful for me tripling the post count, especially when i bumped it when the thread was only a few pages short of archiving. I did care about it, as no other distro is that fast while also maintaining upstream compatibility, unlike TinyCore or SliTaz. I liked it a lot and i still have it on one of my machines, because it's that good. More so the discussion should have been about the CoC from the beginning since its community is what matters the most right now. As its decision making became lowsome in early 2020 when they had the "bright" idea of wasting time adding Gnome and KDE support, on a router first distro, on a lightweight distro, effectively defeating its purpose while packages like wine are still largely outdated. I also know from the top of my head how its documentation works. It doesn't have man installed by default. So you have to use apk add man, but then you'll figure out it doesn't find any pages like other distros do. That's because they split it into a separate *-doc package just like the development headers, so you can install only those you need like ncurses-doc.

>>32662 The post count is irrelevant, if the guy wanted to talk about alpine linux then instead talking about CoCs and then saying "well the thread was longer" is small comfort when the conversation isn't about what he wanted it to be.

Polite sage for off-topic >>32662 >reach 100 posts It is very easy to fill a thread with 100 posts of soykafflinging, drama, and meta. If the COC was deliberately linked to bad decision making like Guix did, which actively harmed development and it's users, then the CoC can be a good topic of discussion. But besides the troon in charge of void maybe being on the fast ride to suicide, I don't see the need to bring political soykafflinging in to a project that has thus far remained apolitical and thereby begin the invitation of it in to people's mind when making a decision.

>>32104 I'm guessing Apartheid Linux is one of them, but what is the other one? Asking for a fren >>31064 I'm curious to see how well it performs as a mobile OS for the Pinephone (postmarketOS). Presumably the lack of systemd cuts down on bloat even further.

>>32657 Based on the mention of secondigliano I would wager that its a Camorra clan CoC.

since were all derailed on mafia cock heres a ndrangheta take The rules of the organization are the rules of life. Government laws are the rules of one side that wants to fuarrrk the other side. And we ain’t gonna let ourselves get fuarrrked by nobody. There’s people who make money without taking any risks, and they’re always gonna be afraid of those who make money by risking everything. If you risk it all, you have it all, capish? But if you think you gotta save yourself, or that you can do it without jail time, without fleeing, without going into hiding, then let me make it clear right from the start: you are not a man. And if you’re not a man, you can leave this room right now, and don’t even hope to ever become one, ’cause you will never ever be a man of honor. Crees en el amor? Love ends. Crees en tu corazón? Your heart stops. No? No love and no heart? So, do you believe in coño, in pussy? Well, even pussies dry up after a while. You believe in your wife? Soon as your money runs out, she’ll tell you you’re neglecting her. You believe in your children? As soon as you stop giving them money they’ll say you don’t love them. You believe in your mama? If you don’t nurse her, she’ll say you’re an ungrateful child. Listen to what I’m tellin’ you. You need to live, vivir. You got to live for yourselves. It’s for yourselves that you need to know how to be respected, and how to show respect. La famiglia. Respect the people who are useful to you and despise the ones who aren’t. The people who can give you something get your respect, and the ones who are useless lose it. Somebody who wants something from you, doesn’t he respect you? Somebody who’s afraid of you? So what happens when you got nothing to give? When you got nothing left? When you’re no longer useful? Then you’re basura, rubbish. If you have nothing to give, then you’re nothing, nada, nulla. I’m talkin’ to you; I even like some of you. Some of you, I’d like to smash your face. But even if I like you the best, if you got more pussy or more money than me, I want you dead. If one of you becomes my brother, and I make him my equal in the organization, then one thing is clear: He’s gonna try to fuarrrk me over. Don’t think a friend will be forever a friend. I’ll be killed by somebody I shared my food with, my sleep, everything. I’ll be killed by somebody I ate with, somebody who gave me shelter. I don’t know who it’ll be or I’d already have eliminated him. But it’ll happen. And if he doesn’t kill me, he’ll betray me. Rules are rules. And rules are not laws. Laws are for cowards. Rules are for men. That’s why we have rules of honor. Rules of honor don’t tell you you have to be good, just, upright. Rules of honor tell you how to rule. What you have to do to handle people, money, power. Rules of honor tell you how to behave if you want to rule, if you want to fuarrrk the guy above you, if you don’t want to be fuarrrked by the guy below you. There’s no sense explaining them. Rules of honor exist, period. They evolved on their own, on and through the blood of every man of honor. How do you choose? How can you choose, in a few seconds, a few minutes, hours, what you should do? If you choose wrong, you’ll pay for it for years, for that quick decision. The rules are always there, but you got to know how to recognize them, you got to understand when they really count. And then there’s God’s laws. God’s laws are contained in the rules. God’s laws—the real ones, though, not the ones they use to make poor fools tremble with fear. But remember this: You can have all the rules of honor you want, but still, only one thing’s for certain. You’re a man only if you know deep down what your destiny is. Poor fools grovel, because it’s easier. Men of honor know that everything dies, everything passes away, nothing lasts forever. Journalists start out wanting to change the world and end up wanting to be editor in chief. It’s easier to condition them than to corrupt them. Each one matters only for himself and for the Honored Society. And the Honored Society says you matter only if you rule. You can choose how, later. You can rule with an iron fist or you can buy consensus. By spilling blood or giving it. The Honored Society knows that every man is weak, depraved, vain. It knows that people don’t change; that’s why rules are everything. Bonds of friendship are nothing without rules. Every problem has a solution, from your wife who leaves you to your group that splits up. The solution merely depends on how much you offer. If things go poorly, you merely offered too little. Don’t go looking for other explanations. You have to know who you want to be. If you rob, shoot, rape, deal drugs, you’ll make money for a while, but then they’ll take you and crush you. You can do it. Sure, you can do it. But not for long, ’cause you don’t know what might happen to you; people will fear you only if you stick a pistol in their mouth. But as soon as you turn your back, what happens? As soon as a job goes wrong? If you belong to the organization, you know there’s a rule for everything. If you want to make money, there’s ways to do it; if you want to kill, there are motives and methods; if you want to get ahead, you can, but you have to earn respect, trust, you have to make yourself indispensable. There’s even rules for if you want to change the rules. Whatever you do outside the rules, you never know how it might end. But whatever you do that follows the rules of honor, you always know exactly what it’s going to get you. And you know exactly how the people around you will react. So if you want to be an ordinary man, just keep doing what you’re doing. But if you want to become a man of honor, you got to have rules. And the difference between an ordinary man and a man of honor is that the man of honor always knows what’s happening, while the ordinary man gets screwed by chance, bad luck, or stupidity. Things happen to him. But the man of honor knows what’s gonna happen, and he knows when. You know exactly what belongs to you and what doesn’t; you know exactly how far you can push yourself, even if you want to push past every rule. Everybody wants three things: power, pussy, and money. Even the judge when he condemns bad people, even the politicians, they want dinero and pussy and power, but they want to get it by showing they’re indispensable, defenders of the law or the poor or who knows what. Everybody wants money, even though they go around saying they want something else, or doing things for other people. The rules of the Honored Society are rules for controlling everybody. The Honored Society knows you can have money, pussy, and power, but it also knows that the man who’s capable of giving up everything is the one who decides everybody else’s fate. Cocaine. That’s what cocaine is. All you can see, you can have it. Without cocaine, you’re nothing. With cocaine, you can be whoever you want. If you sniff cocaine, you screw yourself all on your own. The organization gives you rules for moving up in the world. It gives you rules for killing and for how you’re gonna be killed. You want to lead a normal life? You want to be worth nothing? Fine. All you need to do is not see, not hear. But remember this: In Mexico, where you can do whatever you want, get high, fuarrrk little girls, drive as fast as you like, the only ones who really rule are the ones who have rules. If you do stupid stuff, you got no honor, and if you got no honor, you got no power. You’re just like everybody else. You work, a lot. You have some money, algo dinero. Maybe some beautiful women. But then they leave you, for somebody more handsome, with more dinero than you. You might have a decent life—pretty unlikely—or a soykafty life, like everybody else. But when you end up in jail, the ones on the outside, who think they’re clean, will insult you, but you will have ruled. They’ll hate you, but you’ll have bought yourself everything good in life, everything you wanted. You’ll have the organization behind you. It might happen that you suffer some, and maybe they’ll even kill you. The organization backs whoever’s strongest, obviously. You can climb mountains with rules of flesh, blood, and money. But if you become weak, if you make a mistake, you’re fuarrrked. If you do good, you’ll be rewarded. If you make a bad alliance, you’re fuarrrked; if you make a mistake in war, you’re fuarrrked; if you don’t know how to hold on to power, you’re fuarrrked. But these wars are permitted, they’re allowed. They’re our wars. You might win and you might lose. But on only one condition will you always lose, and in the most painful way possible: if you betray the organization. Whoever tries to go against the Honored Society has no hope of surviving. You can run from the law but not from the organization. You can even run from God, ’cause God can wait forever for the fugitive. But you can’t escape the organization. If you betray it and run, if they screw you and you run, if you don’t respect the rules and you run, somebody’s gonna pay. They’ll come looking for you. They’ll go to your family, to your allies. Your name will be on the list forever. And nothing can ever erase it. Not time, not money. You’re fuarrrked for all eternity, you and your descendants.

>>31064 Answering the thread question: Drew DeVault, semi-famous foss dev from projects such as sway, wlroots, TrueCraft, sourcehut, and getting in internet fights with Kovid Goyal describes choosing Alpine Linux as a desktop OS over Arch in a blog post: https://portal.drewdevault.com/2020/10/18/New-workstation.gmi

>>34836 Interesting. I wonder if he's running a graphical desktop. I vaguely remember reading somewhere (maybe the alpine wiki?) that there were some challenges in doing so. I think part of it had to do with video driver blobs not working with musl. There was also something weird about X11 but I don't remember what it was. Seems like alpine generally requires a decent amount of self compiling to deal with the lack of glibc. Are the porting tools good?

>>34841 >I wonder if he's running a graphical desktop. He's the developer of Sway, an i3 clone for Wayland. So that's a graphical desktop albeit a minimal one.