Can we live without phones...?

It strikes me that, even with a phone on Replicant or suchlike, all phones can be spyware in that the fundamental technology underlying them, viz. cellular networks, reveal one's location. In Australia, a 'free' nation, location metadata must be retained whenever a call or connection to a cell tower is made, and due to notifications and so on, this amounts to a constant record of one's entire movements--retained for two years, as far as we know. I want to discuss whether we can live without phones in the modern world? Or more precisely, live without the constant connection of phones? Is it practical for non-NEETs?

Yes it is, for most jobs (Some they will give you a phone and you will have to take it) Other than that it is easy, you can just read a book or something while you're on the move and interact always face to face or staying at home and via email/etc.

>>22679 I've been attempting to live more-or-less without my phone lately (ie: turn it off, throw it in the back of a closet, don't touch until I have too). So far I can usually make it 1-2 weeks without having to turn my phone on. The only things I've had to use it for are: 1 - Forced 2 factor authenticated logins These are a big pain in the ass and I haven't thought about ways to get around them. If someone knows a good way to get past your own 2-FA without using a phone, please let me know. 2 - Talking to distant family Usually I try to stick to email, but occasionally they insist on calling, which can be nice. Would just use video-chatting software except I am also not paying for internet currently and lack a reliable connection at home. Aside from the above two, living without a phone seems relatively pain-free. Granted, I'm something of a NEET (only a few close friends, don't go to many social gatherings, etc.) and I work in academia (workplace policies are much looser) so ymmv.

>>22681 What's it you're trying to achieve through not using a phone? If it's only privacy, you could continue to use the phone for 2FA, camera, etc., but have no SIM card. Have a residential telephone and ask others to use that; sort out the home internet situation somehow, perhaps a 4G hotspot is required? >Granted, I'm something of a NEET (only a few close friends, don't go to many social gatherings, etc.) and I work in academia (workplace policies are much looser) so ymmv. You're a NEET, yet you work in academia?

>>22682 >What's it you're trying to achieve through not using a phone? That's a good question. Privacy is a big part of it, but also just a desire to take back how I spend my time. I find if I'm carrying a phone I end up screwing around with it more often that I'd like. I also just get a kick out of having one less thing to carry around / worry about, although that is likely just me fetishizing minimalism so not really a great reason. >If it's only privacy, you could continue to use the phone for 2FA I'm probably being a potato, but how would this work? Do some services just require you to have on app on-phone for authorization? In my case, I think I am required to use text / phone-call authorization although I may have just overlooked other options. > camera, etc., Haven't missed the other features of a phone much, but this is a pretty neat idea if privacy was my only concern. Ty lain! Did some reading, apparently Google voice can let me receive texts to a free # that get dumped into an email for me, so that could be a viable alternative. Also some services offer authentication apps, so I guess I should look into that as well. >You're a NEET, yet you work in academia? NEET probably wasn't the best phrase, just meant to say my social ties are close to nil so I can't attest to how lacking a phone may impact that.

The problem I have with not having a phone on me is safety concerns. I always end up where I shouldn't be, alone at night, because of my work. I freaking hate this job and it's killing me but as for now I don't have any options to quit it without suffering financial issues. I already got jumped by a retarded 'gymbro' once, punched in the face multiple times etc. I was more than happy to have my phone on me at that moment. Not to call the cops but to call a friend to come pick me up at the very least (and not staying laying on the floor semi unconscious with the risk of being robbed on top of that.) I really wanted to live without a phone but I realized phones are very welcome in some situations. I think I'll just buy a dumb phone with a removable batteries... or move my ass and actually learn to code or something to finally quit this nightmare job. Not only I learned phones are useful in some cases, I also realized some people are dumb enough to physically harm you for no reason and you can die on the spot for absolutely nothing if you are unlucky. I always knew it but having it happening to me was a wake up call and now I don't feel safe going to work.

I have not owned a phone in several years and highly reccommend it. I initally did it because of privacy concerns but now I feel much happier without it. I feel the privacy concerns have been well covered by other people in this thread. I feel when you own a phone on some level you are always thinking about your phone. And when I stopped owning one it is like a small constant anxiety was taken away. I am able to focus for longer, and feel better in my spare time. Sometimes people feel like they will be isolated without their phone because they do so much communication through it. But I found that is not true, basically when I wanted to talk to people I would just explain that I don't have one and then we would exchange emails. I also started to talk to people face to face more. Essentally the way you communicate just changes. Though there is a short period after you stop owning one where you are isolated this passes with time. Another downside is the first week or so after not owning one really is like kicking dead whales down the beach because, at least for me, I would be sitting around and then think "I should check my phone" and then get irritated when I couldn't. Though this is probably a sign that the phone is bad for you more than anything. I guess if you are frequently in a situation like >>22687 where having a phone can really help you, then maybe one is good. But if you are only in that situation occassionaly then you can usually plan around it. For example, if you are going to be driving through a less populated area you could borrow someone elses phone before hand, because in that situation you want to be tracked.

Living without a phone is easy. You need to be able to ask others to be more accommodating and do the favor of actually forging real human connections with you, but that's precisely what this alienated world of impoverished technological hyper-communication stole from us. People desperately want it back. And besides, asking for a favor will make others love you more than trying to give a favor. That's one of the greatest secrets of how people's hearts work. I've gone without a phone for periods of years on end throughout the 2000s until now. I managed to keep regular employment and a rich interpersonal life, not to mention a much more involved outdoor life and freedom from the feeling that I was always on the end of a string, constantly threatened with being yanked back under someone else's control, constantly watched. You will encounter difficult people and all sorts of troublesome issues, but let that be a filter for people and places that don't suit you. Press on, and remember we have powers that technology augments yet there's also powers we had that it took away. You can take it back if you are firm. Freedom is a possibility only if you're able to say no.

>>22694 That last sentence has two layers of meaning. You can only have what you want if you are capable of saying no; it's a surprisingly rare skill. You need to respect yourself enough to know when to say it and be strong enough to hold your ground. It also has the more literal meaning: you aren't free if you refuse yet you still have the things you refused done to you. Perhaps it sounds kind of banal, obvious even—but it has an insidious way of sneaking back into one's life. It becomes familiar and mundane, and before you know it you're surrounded by situations you aren't really allowed to say no to. Maybe there's some technical way of refusing, but it doesn't really change outcomes or it is practically impossible when it actually comes down to the process of refusal.

>>22686 Most services that offer 2FA support an open token generating protocol, implemented by apps like Authy etc. This doesn't require a phone at all, since there are implementations of the algorithm that work on computers. It doesn't require your device to be connected to the internet to work either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-factor_authentication#Examples

I only use my phone as an alarm-clock and i'm absolutely fine, friendless and isolated (because i'm a social inept), but fine nonetheless. You don't need them to live in any way, at least if you have a pc/computer at home.

>>22696 >There are implementations of the algorithm that work on computers That defeats the point of 2FA, however, as it means if someone exploits the computer and takes the password he can take the one-time code as well. Phones are much more locked down and thus more desirable for a second factor.

>>22699 True, I think of it as a workaround to avoid actually using 2FA when a service is trying to make it a requirement. Usually not a good idea but I think there are at least a few possible valid reasons for this.