Systemd

I feel it's hard to find good pro and con arguments for systemd, the debate is polarized to say the least and mostly results in insults and yelling. That being said, what do you think about systemd? What are the benefits and what is the price to pay? Personally i'm on gentoo with the default openrc wich works fine for me, i have very little experience with systemd so i can't really form a decent opinion.

>>17162 > I feel it's hard to find good pro and con arguments for systemd, the debate is polarized to say the least and mostly results in insults and yelling. That wasn't my experience at all, several detailed pro and cons comparisons or arguments are available from https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2omlkd/eli5_pros_cons_with_systemd/ https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2013/12/msg00234.html https://www.textplain.net/blog/2015/problems-with-systemd-and-why-i-like-bsd-init/ https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems https://iwf1.com/systemd-vs-openrc-which-init-system-is-the-best-for-you-comparison https://cloux.org/init/ is biased but it does try to list Pros and Cons for each of the init systems it compares. Additional food for thought that isn't a pro / con comparison of systemd vs other init systems is https://the-world-after-systemd.ungleich.ch/ https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/ https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/09/05/0/ http://ewontfix.com/14/ https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdAndBrokenByDesign What do I think about systemd ? I think that some parts of it are conceptually good ideas, but not all parts of it and that its implementation and willingness to break user's existing workflows and user space is dangerous and callous. I also use Gentoo and openrc but I have used systemd in the past on other distributions. I believe I share Theodore Tso and Linus Torvalds concerns about the details of the project and the way the project is being run mentioned in the article in the food for thought section above. Init systems have always been controversial, I wanted to link to an earlier of example of that before systemd was even conceived, the article talked about how people were writing init scripts incorrectly, but I can't find the link to it.

>>17164 >I think that some parts of it are conceptually good ideas, but not all parts of it and that its implementation and willingness to break user's existing workflows and user space is dangerous and callous. The same could be argued regarding another Poettering project, Pulseaudio. Some good concepts, but a questionable implementation process and a frequent strange tonedeaf-ness towards legitimate user concerns.

The benefits are that it has standardized Linux inits and runlevels under one system. I can go from Ubuntu to Debian to Fedora or RHEL with ease meaning that the issues between distros. This is useful for companies organizing and training personnel since now it might as well all be one system if it wasn't for the package manager and some defaults. The downside to this is that SystemD is terribly designed for security and it introduces bloat and complexity to things that never should have it in the first place. The init should have no business managing the networking of the computer or giving root access to a user named 0day. Theres also the glut of exploits for it which is a result of development moving so fast there hasn't been a proper audit as well as Poettering himself being a dubious figure and the pushers(Red Hat) being worse.

>devoted user and lover of debian for years >they decided to move to systemd >everything starts breaking and crashing with absolutely no rhyme or reason >move to systemdless distro >everything just works as expected again I'm no init expert, but this is my experience with systemd. I thank them from the bottom of my heart for forcing me to move on and discover based beautiful GuixSD though - Had it been tolerably usable, I might still be stuck using an inherently crippled OS/package manager.

>>17167 Did you ever consider using Devuan or did you just jump straight into Guix? I’ve been running Guix on a VM for a few days to see how it goes, it’s been pretty cozy. I started a guid reconfigure last night and by the morning it hadn’t finished building Linux libre though, not sure what the deal is there - it’s a fairly underpowered VM but it’s not likely that I’ll ever be running Guix on stellar hardware.

>>17173 I've found some things take up a lot of memory and will screech to a halt if they run out with no sign or warning. But even on an ancient Core2Duo with 2G of RAM, it still takes me less than an hour or two to build Linux-libre, texlive, and all of Gnome. But without a big swap partition and a couple days, I can't build Calibre... No idea what's up with yours, maybe ask about it in their room on Freenode - I've never had good luck with VMs in general. But I have had very good luck with this on real hardware - I understand though that that's a hard commitment to make without first trying it out. I did look at Devuan but once I started reading about Guix [Freedom \emph{and} everything's done in lisp?!] I knew it was going to be exactly what I wanted.

>>17165 >a frequent strange tonedeaf-ness towards legitimate user concerns. A point that is often missed in systemd discussions is that you (open source desktop user) are not the customer so naturally the systemd devs don't care what you think. sage because why do we have a systemd thread in 2019 It happened get over it.