GNUnet

What are your thoughts on GNUnet? It's pretty experimental at the moment, but I have high hopes for it in the future. The idea is to make a newer, better internet based on freedom and privacy. Does anyone here use it? https://gnunet.org/

It's the future - Can't come fast enough.

I'm most excited for this because (at least for a while) it will again be a frontier free of casuals and normal users. It might be our last chance to briefly relive the glory days of the internet.

I like that the project is inventing a protocol, a naming service and a digital coin for it all, but the real work is going to be providing something of value to the target audience. If the initial target audience are the tech-savvy, then maybe creating something like network-aware dev tool might be helpful. If the target audience is an average citizen, then some kind of p2p game or radio station would help bring them in.

Well, is there an imageboard on GNUnet where we can traffic dru... I mean chat, yes, chat.

>>16242 I've heard of it before, really interesting stuff. I hope it takes off.

How ready for prime-time is GNUnet exactly? Can apps be built for it without any sudden changes to the underlying architecture? I also wonder if they can make a version that could be run on a hosted server. It would ease adoption quite a bit, although probably not technically worth the effort.

>>16243 Didn't know what GNUnet was until this post, thank you!

>>16278 Likewise, I also had not heard of this until now. I'll be researching it later, perhaps I'll post anything interesting I discover here on /tech/.

Unlike those two I head it but thought was the same as free net.

>>16242 >It's pretty experimental at the moment, but I have high hopes for it in the future. Isn't it like 20 years old now? After a certain point you just need to be honest and admit it's not going to happen.

>>16296 yeah it's hurd tier

They recently had a more stable release. Haven't tried it myself yet, but I'm planning to.

>>16303 Nobody cares about Hurd, Linux is a great kernel that was first. Gnunet is 'new' so there might be some more interest.

>>16567 >Nobody cares about Hurd, Linux is a great kernel that was first. Nobody cares about Hurd because it's been in development for literally decades and still can't do anything useful. Gnunet is in the exact same situation.

>>16246 Protocol can tunnel TCP-like transfers, so imageboards are feasible. Kinda need someone to make one though.

>>16584 Curious, what can't it do? Hardware support is more a question of popularity than featurefulness.

>>16601 >Curious, what can't it do? What can it do? From a quick google search: no firefox no wifi no ability to mount modern filesystems e.g. ext4 or ntfs no disk encryption no virtualization (not even fuarrrking qemu) Come on man Hurd is a joke.

>>16606 firefox not supporting hurd is not really the fault of the kernel, just a lack of good userspace on top of it. Other than that yeah Hurd is pretty much a joke.

>>16246 which one is it

>>16243 how comparable to tor is it

>>16584 OK sure, but the reason it's in development for decades is because nobody needs a new gnu compatible kernel, because that exists already. Thats why I hope gnunet might have more success, there isn't really an alternative.

>>16584 This has happened to a lot of gnu projects sadly. I really liked GNU Social and GNU FM but alas.

I think this thread serves as a good example of part of the 'black-hat fallacy'. If you look around Lainchan you see people asking why no one cares about privacy and hasn't adopted more secure tech, but then in threads like this where more secure tech is proposed, and even comes with a simple download button, many people say the most hypocritical and banal things like: >>16296 >>16303 >>16584 >>16606 >>16607 The reason more secure tech hasn't been adopted is because /you/ do not adopt it. Everyone, please try actually downloading and /using/ frameworks before saying they are useless. ZeroNet for example has great functionality that comes pre-packaged, and even though it's built on top of IPFS, which is not inherently anonymous, ZeroNet /is/ anonymous. GNUnet has greater potential and should be considered in these discussions instead of being thrown out because it's 'not popular enough'.

>>16242 Or even better, use that tech and try to contribute to those projects somehow, even if it's small. That's how this stuff is made, you know. It seems to me that most people just want a better world brought to them on a silver platter rather than contributing towards it themselves.

>>16630 you seem to be on top of things. can you tell me a reliable and secure messaging app that works for android 4.3 and does not use too much surf (data plan or whatever its called. its just "surf" in sweden)? Signal is no longer compatible for 4.3 and Tox apparently takes too much surf. Obviously GNU is preferred but one has to take what is available i guess.

>>16630 >zeronet >built on top of IPFS >anonymous Zeronet is not IPFS, it's just http served over bittorrent so everyone with access to the dht can see your browsing history. Not private. Not anonymous. Not secure. >GNUnet has greater potential and should be considered in these discussions instead of being thrown out because it's 'not popular enough'. If you actually read the thread you'd know the problem is not the users it's the GNU project themselves. They take on massive projects with unlimited scope and fail to delver. That's the reason GNUnet has failed.

>>16634 >not secure by what yardstick? You have verification that you won't be served incorrect content.

>>16243 >freenet more anonymous than Tor they've arrested pedos on freenet. Its broken.

>>16634 >If you actually read the thread you'd know the problem is not the users it's the GNU project themselves. They take on massive projects with unlimited scope and fail to delver. Yeah, that damn GNU project! They never attempt to be succesful with little things like coreutils, grep, awk, make, or gzip. All they ever do is fail to deliver optimizing compilers, desktop environments, editors, bootloaders, debuggers, shells, and package managers. Those dead beat GNUs make me so mad!

>>16639 >they've arrested pedos on freenet. Its broken. Until you post sources, it's just FUD.

make GNUchan and people will use it.

>>16641 https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2017/2017oncj729/2017oncj729.html https://www.deepdotweb.com/2015/11/27/police-log-ips-making-arrest-by-planting-own-nodes-in-freenet/

>>16643 First link is a dud, second link has some significance. >In this case, when considering all three stages of the Grant analysis, admitting the evidence would bring the administration of justice into disrepute. The breach here was serious and had a significant impact on the applicant’s Charter-protected interests. Despite the reliability of the evidence and its importance to the Crown’s case, the long-term repute of the administration of justice is best served by exclusion. >The applicant’s s. 8 Charter rights were violated and the admission of that evidence would bring the administration of justice into disrepute. Consequently, the application to exclude evidence seized from the applicant’s home is granted. Wow, it's fuarrrking nothing. The cops stated they knew when he had plausible deniability and the courts threw out evidence from the search of his house. Or am I misreading? Second link seems to be a result of using the unsafe mode instead of friends only.

>>16640 >Yeah, that damn GNU project! They never attempt to be succesful with little things like coreutils, grep, awk, make, or gzip. All they ever do is fail to deliver optimizing compilers, desktop environments, editors, bootloaders, debuggers, shells, and package managers. Those dead beat GNUs make me so mad! This is exactly the point of the post you're responding to. Isolated projects with limit scope. great success. Rewrite every layer of the internet all at the same time, disaster. This is true for anyone who makes software. The irony is that with proprietary software they learn fast or go out of business. With GNU there is no link between donations and output so they never learned how to do project management. >>16644 The reason Freenet is not anonymous is because someone watching your connection (ISP/government) and runs a node you connect to directly can figure out which files are stopping at your node and not just passing through. What >>16639 says is correct, many Freenet users have been busted, including a core developer. >Second link seems to be a result of using the unsafe mode instead of friends only. That's pretty much the point. If you 100% trust all the nodes you connect to directly then you don't need an anonymity network in the first place. Freenet isn't actually giving you anything.

>>16640 >All they ever do is fail to deliver optimizing compilers, desktop environments, editors, bootloaders, debuggers, shells, and package managers. Why do you pluralize everything? They made one compiler, one de, one bootloader, one debugger, one shell, one package manager. Protip, if you need to lie to make your point more convincing then you're point is pretty worthless to begin with.

>>16648 I don't understand you. These things take time. The first stretches of GNU Social came out almost a decade ago, and now it's become very popular. GNU Hurd builds and can run more than half of Debian packages. Maybe your experience not seeing things aren't representative? Things are rarely as dead they seem to an outsider. The fact we're even talking about GNUNet suggests they're still relevant. If you go to their site, you can see recent tickets being processed. I was surprised to see their website got a new paintjob. This "GNUNet is dead" attitude is no different than people claiming Perl6 is dead, Lisp is dead, or OpenMorrowind is dead, despite the fact that Perl6 is growing, the Lisp community is still active, and people are actively playing with OpenMorrowind's engine. >That's pretty much the point. If you 100% trust all the nodes you connect to directly then you don't need an anonymity network in the first place. Freenet isn't actually giving you anything. Do you know of another solution that lets you securely share files when you trust all parties? Is GPG email attachments really comparable to something like Freenet? >>16650 >Protip, if you need to lie to make your point more convincing then you're point is pretty worthless to begin with. Sorry, I meant to suggest that GNU has attempted each of those at least once. But lets examine the claim they've only done one of each. >one compiler GCC is the compiler *collection*. It supports several languages. There's also Scheme, Common Lisp, Forth, and SmallTalk implementations. >one de Yes, you are correct. There's really only GNOME. Unless you count all the GNOME forks. >one bootlader Libreboot, Grub2 and Grub Legacy >one debugger GDB supports about a dozen languages. There's also the debuggers for Common Lisp and Guile. >one shell You are correct, there's only really Bash. Unless you include any shells under the GPL. >one package manager You are correct. There's only really Guile. Unless you include any package manager under the GPL.

>>16656 Woudn't Guix also qualify for package managers?

>>16660 I wrote Guile instead of Guix, because Guix uses Guile. I'm an idiot.

>>16633 >android 4.3 Is anything recent still compatible with 4.3?

>>16656 >Do you know of another solution that lets you securely share files when you trust all parties? Is GPG email attachments really comparable to something like Freenet? Freenet is basically just a distributed filesystem which was designed to be anonymous but failed. It's not comparable to email in any way. >But lets examine the claim they've only done one of each. You seem to fundamentally misunderstand how GNU operates. Most of the projects you mention are random open source projects that later gained GNU status, they are not things the GNU project actually developed. Also >GCC is the compiler *collection*. GCC is one compiler with many frontends and many backends. >There's also Scheme, Common Lisp, Forth, and SmallTalk None of which are compilers. They're interpreted languages. >Libreboot Libreboot is not a bootloader it's a bios replacement. >There's only really Guile. Guix. Guile is a programming language. I don't want to sound mean but you really shouldn't have such strong opinions about things you obviously don't have the slightest clue about.

>>16696 >I don't want to sound mean but you really shouldn't have such strong opinions about things you obviously don't have the slightest clue about. Tell me more about how Common Lisp is an interpreted language.

I installed it once and was greeted but a soykafty UI that told me nothing of what it even was or even did. I love I2P but I'm willing to try something that is not soykaf.

>>16696 >Freenet is basically just a distributed filesystem which was designed to be anonymous but failed. It's not comparable to email in any way. I used Freenet years ago, and I'm curious about the "failed" aspect here. Do you mean it failed to gain a mass audience (which is demonstrably true)? Or was there also a failure in design or implementation that made the network possible to surveil?

I tried to use this soykaf once. The UI looked like a Fisher Price/V-Tech Learning Laptop interface. I tried to search for "Weird Al" to test it, and it just kept searching indefinately. No error, no ETA, no results. Tried searching a few other terms, same story. Same story for an attempted upload. You people actually managed to get the fuarrrker to work?

>>16917 >I used Freenet years ago, and I'm curious about the "failed" aspect here. Failed to be anonymous. You might notice they removed any such claims from the official branding, now it's just "strong privacy protections".

>>16928 >Failed to be anonymous. You might notice they removed any such claims from the official branding, now it's just "strong privacy protections". Makes sense. Probably for the best that I stopped using it years ago.

It might have started a long time ago, but looking at the site it still seems somewhat active? I hope this works out.

wtf is this soykaf https://docs.gnunet.org/#Using-the-Virtual-Public-Network > The first thing to note about the GNUnet VPN is that it is a public network. All participating peers can participate and there is no secret key to control access. So unlike common virtual private networks, the GNUnet VPN is not useful as a means to provide a "private" network abstraction over the Internet. ... > The VPN does not provide good anonymity. While requests are routed over the GNUnet network, other peers can directly see the source and destination of each (encapsulated) IP packet. Finally, if you use the VPN to access Internet services, the peer sending the request to the Internet will be able to observe and even alter the IP traffic. why would i use this instead of tor

I want to use it but the software gives no hints as to what I'm supposed to do with it.

>>18603 I downloaded it from my official repo and it doesn't even boot. No errors thrown anything. Yeah I guess I'll stick to Tor rather

>>17936 Maybe it would be ok for torrenting but I can't really think of another use case off the top of my head.

>>18603 you're supposed to design ted nelson's xanadu on top of it and spread copyleft culture

>>18666 Xanadu and copyleft are fundamentally incompatible ideas. Ted Nelson was obsessed with baking-in DRM, payment mechanisms, and other centralized control mechanisms into Xanadu.