Alternative Communications

I'd like to give people an easy method to contact me without giving my phone number (to nobody) and without using a 3rd-party system. I'd like something like XMPP, but much easier to setup for any kind of user. I could probably just leave the registration form open on my server and let people join. Another option would be the classic email, but I have no idea where to start setting up one – but I'd like to have one too for official communications. In this case I would need to explain friends how to use PGP. Do you have any alternatives or suggestions for software and configuration?

riot.im matrix.org This is what they will be using in the librem 5

>>13574 inb4 someone posts just to say Riot is like kicking dead whales down the beach. That's not constructive, Lain.

Selfhost an IRC server for you and your friends, very easy to do and can be run off a raspberry pi or an old computer you're not using anymore. Use email for contacting family and for professional situations.

>>13578 He needs persistent messaging, and setting up znc for everyone will be too much of a hassle

>>13576 What word is filtered for kicking dead whales? slow?

>>13580 s u c k s

>>13581 Thank you! That one has been driving me nuts :) is like kicking dead whales down the beach

you can create a fake number, and register it in whatsapp and share that fake number to everyone, your real number keep it unregistered anywhere

>>13590 >whatsapp is owned by faceberg >has intentionally weak end to end encryption so Zucc can break it and read your convos >actually suggesting others to use the app Shiggy the diggy

> Another option would be the classic email, but I have no idea where to start setting up one tutanota.com

>>13576 I don't like riot because of the name I can tell it was written by an edgelord therefore I want nothing to do with it

>>13594 I think he asked for a self-hosted solution however I'd suggest to use Protonmail

>>13597 protonmail bans its own users, was hacking its user, its server-side is closed-source, and also this company has a strange connection with a datamining company. I wouldn't recommend to use protonmail in any way.

Zom is a fork of chatsecure Zom.im is easy enough for facebook users to understand. Zom lets you use expert features while keeping your idiot tier privacy aware friends in their comfortable bubble of their limited technical ability Run your own XMPP server then use Zom as a cross platform client.

>>13600 protonmail can be self hosted if OP really wants to go through that effort or has the skill. or some I2P or Tor bsaed mailserver. Torchat even.

>>13603 Protonmail is proprietary, so no.

>>13574 >g**gle cloud messaging >g**gle captchas >(((cannot turn off background works))))

>>13600 Wasn't that found to be a smear campaign started by PIA?

>>13597 > selfhosted mail: mailcow xmpp: prosody irc: ngircd

>>13596 It was called Vector at first and it's written by a group. Anyway I think Riot might be a play on Discord.

>>13652 >ladies and gentlemen of the jury >the defendant was caught communicating with a hacking tool named Riot >I rest my case >Jury 1 minute later: Guilty https://dfarq.homeip.net/wget-is-not-a-hacking-tool/

>>13590 What's even the point of trying to stay secure if you're a phoneposter?

>>13574 what's a good matrix instance that isn't matrix.org? i don't have the resources to self-host atm, but i don't like some of the stuff riot.im/matrix.org has done over the years (google analytics, somewhat invasive privacy policy, to name a few).

>>13819 Cant think of any major others, imo matrix is preferable to smallfry because they are large enough to be held accountable unlike amateur run servers.

>>13820 fair enough. guess i'll give matrix.org a shot. it's surprising to me that the matrix protocol is still so closely tied to riot.im's instance and reference clients/servers after all this time. as an aside, does anyone here have an account on the lain.haus instance, or know who runs it?

>>13823 Just use xmpp lain. All the matrix servers have cves every week. Then there are the reasons outlined here: https://disroot.org/en/blog/matrix-closure As well as all the google dependencies. There's plenty of good trustworthy xmpp servers to use because there's so many xmpp servers that are actually good. I will admit that the client situation could be better. However, as conversations.im has shown, the only reason xmpp clients aren't good is because there isn't enough PAID people working on them. Conversations has someone paid that's working on it. Matrix has no mobile client that's equal to conversations. Xmpp is mature and battle tested. Matrix is just reinventing the wheel.

>>13824 >Just use xmpp lain I do, for direct/private chat. I just wanted to try matrix out to see how it functions as a "discord alternative" (i.e. multimedia chatrooms + voice). Many online communities have an associated IRC, matrix, or discord server, but I've never come across an xmpp chatroom being used like this. Maybe I'm just in the wrong demographic. >There's plenty of good trustworthy xmpp servers to use because there's so many xmpp servers that are actually good. This is true. The main issue is finding a server that actually supports all the extensions you need, but this isn't too hard. >I will admit that the client situation could be better. Especially wrt OMEMO. The conversations client does it, and profanity does it with a plugin, but those are the only two I'm aware of. >Matrix is just reinventing the wheel. Maybe, but I think the "wheel" is slack or discord more than xmpp. I realize you _can_ have voice calls over XMPP, and you _can_ embed images/multimedia. But between lack of client support, use-case focus, and the difficulty setting these things up, I think there's still room for a federated FOSS slack/discord clone.

>>13826 Riot.im isnt quite there yet for replacing discord in the sense of convincing normal people to use it. Theres problems with performance and UX. They just announced that they will focus on E2E encryption UX in the next update. Currently its not very normal person friendly given that you have to verify and accept the key of every user in an encrypted group chat. I have my hopes that it will be a formidable alternative soon enough though. They have the momentum and spirit that xmpp and ircv3 lack.

>>13572 * IRC + OTR * IRC + OTR inside the I2P network. * URC + OTR inside the I2P network. >I'd like to give people an easy method to contact me without giving my phone number (to nobody) and without using a 3rd-party system. Oh wait soykaf uhhhh Tox? Jabber? There's a very good client for Jabber on Fdroid and plenty of good Jabber servers.

Kareha or some other simple image/text board. That way people don't have to install any extra client software. You can use robots.txt to keep it off the search engines and configure your server to put an obvious password (eg "The website at 'the password is foobar' wants a password.") on it if you have problems with spam. For realtime, you could use a local IRC server with a locally hosted web IRC client.

>>13985 you mean github.com/JosephSWilliams/urcd or is there something more that I should be awear of?

>>13985 >>14013 Digging more got me to https://web.archive.org/web/20150202154717/http://anonet2.biz/Main%20Page

>>14013 Sorta! That code was written by a who then mysteriously disappeared. A more up to date version is written in python and here: https://github.com/majestrate/urc.py

>>14072 by a person*

install orbot, xmpp server pro, and conversations on your android phone. it's pretty easy to set the xmpp server up as a tor hidden service. give yourself and whoever you like accounts, set up group chats whatever.

>>13819 banter.city I've been suing it for a few months now. It's run by a lain poster too

>>13985 >>13611 >tell me to try IRC >tried IRC but with no success >guess about URC where should I start configuring an IRC (possibly with services)? have tried and I'm using XMPP for sensitive things, but OTR works great through IRC too and in XMPP groups don't work quiet well imho for voice we connect with mumble also I've tried some textboard/imageboard/liveboard (meguca, dangeru), how could I make a board private? is htaccess a serious thing?

>>14197 Did you succeed in suing it?

>>13594 >some email service provider he meant where to start reading to learn how to set up an email server >>13694 >What's even the point of trying to stay secure if you're a phoneposter? the same point regardless who you are. using smartphones just has it's own difficulties. get one with a full keyboard, and install some actually free UNIX (like OpenBSD) on it. write the drivers for all unsupported hardware. if they don't support the CPU of your phone, port it. just make sure each component is properly documented. ask the manufacturer for a list of all hardware components of one of the ones that you like, if they don't give it, publish the fact that they don't provide that information somewhere relevant (like XDA forums), then go to your next option. once you have a list of components, ask the manufacturers of those components for documentation. if any of them don't provide the documentation for any hardware component, tell the manufacturer of the phone who gave you the list that they don't provide proper documentation, and also publish that fact somewhere relevant. at some point you will find a nice phone whose manufacturers properly document everything. then you can proceed to port, write drivers, install, configure, the OS and install the apps you need. forget all the mobile apps, focus on apps that can be installed to any computer. >>13824 >There's plenty of good trustworthy xmpp servers to use because there's so many xmpp servers that are actually good uhh, what? did you just say there are good ones because there are good ones? >>13996 >robots.txt or you could not let anyone know anything unless they log in at the log-in pop-up, and make an account for each of your friends, and tell them to change their passwords from the default as soon as possible, which you will be able to know, even without knowing their passwords, because the password hash will change. also, delete everything as soon as you don't need it (or make it plausibly deniable that you don't have any copies) in case someone tries to serve you some spook-papers. >>14197 did they infringe one of your copyrights or patents? let us know how it's going. if you don't respond, we'll have to assume you're gagged.

been using Wire with my friends for a while now, only big issues I have found so far is non-encrypted contact list and the lack of pin lock on android, but will be solved eventually.

You could make a website with a form to fill and a submit button, it's one way communication, but it's easy and secure.

Tox, URC, I2Pbote and Diaspora are what I use.

>>13819 https://nobodyhasthe.biz/chat

As I've seen many people mentioning[1] URC, I wanted to get involved in this thing and try to use it. I've tried to lookup for URC, but the only link I've found are outdated[2] and I don't understand how people is using this. Also with the help of another lainon, I've found the author[3], who closed his website around 2015. If someone use it, can he explain how did he setted it up and talk about it? This is a project that came up from anonet2 and I'm not involved in that, so if someone knows if this thing it's still alive would be a bonus for this thread. [1] >>13985 >>14013 >>14072 >>15615 >>15899 [2] https://github.com/majestrate/urc.py/blob/master/protocol.md http://www.statdomain.org/wiki/index.php/URC https://github.com/JosephSWilliams/urcd [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20150314215524/http://www.josephswilliams.com/software/

>>16421 I don't understand it - they claim the messages have no recipient identifier and only the bearer of the correct key could read it. Which means the message ought to be broadcasted, i.e. delivered to every peer. And yet i've seen 'scalable' mentioned in the docs. What gives?

>>16423 That means that only who has the correct key can read the message and who doesn't simply discard the message, but this for encrypted messages. (note: I don't know URC, I've just red the docs)

Nobody will use your alternative communications channel unless they were willing to communicate via regular means... :(

hello op, these guys are all idiots and so are you what do you want out of your communication channels? voice? text chat? conversations that everyone can contribute to over a period of time? using email is stupid because nobody uses encrypted email and almost everyone uses providers that read their emails. protonmail isn't magically safe just because they claim they are and just because they claim the country they're in is a safe zone. protip: the EU is worse than north america when it comes to government requests for your data. keep in mind that apple who claimed that unlocking people's ecrypted data is impossible has unlocked data for police many, many times, and when the fbi wanted data, they just paid some company to give them the exploit. also, all big companies are part of PRISM so phoneposters are 1000% retarded and all phone calls have been recorded for decades. using any instant messaging that you don't host is stupid for obvious reasons expecting voice chat without setting up your own murmur server is stupid. discord related things aren't secure unless you're hosting them yourself, and they aren't connected to anything, and the code has been audited for security. you can easily set up an irc server if that's what you want. you can even send mail to each other if you set up services. set the server to only have encrypted connections. you can set up an imageboard easily and password lock the domain. make a login for each person who you want to give access. ssl certs are free from letsencrypt. none of the above is secure unless you know what you're doing and even then, you can still be exploited keep in mind that you can tell the general population about the reality of their data security all day and they still won't care. this isn't a matter of anything other than IQ. since the massive majority of humanoids are retard-tier IQ (85 and under, cannot function in society), you can't expect them to ever use any method to contact you outside of retard-tier systems like facebook im. since you're posting here, you're likely white. since you clearly have hobbies and you are even security minded, probably higher IQ. i'm estimating between 110 and 120 since you can't come up with the answers on your own. midwit-tier. you'd do fine in college but might end up coming out an indoctrinated sjw. here is some wisdom: if you want secure conversations, have them in person anyone who won't use secure contact methods that you choose doesn't actually care to talk to you, outside of being unable to grasp how to use the method (most elderly people).(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST. Rule 4. Always argue in good faith and avoid using personal attacks.)

>>16880 >using email is stupid because nobody uses encrypted email and almost everyone uses providers that read their emails. that's why encrypting it would help >keep in mind that you can tell the general population about the reality of their data security all day and they still won't care. this isn't a matter of anything other than IQ. wow, a way to feel superior... >since you're posting here, you're likely white. since you clearly have hobbies and you are even security minded, probably higher IQ this took an unexpected turn... >here is some wisdom: if you want secure conversations, have them in person well you would still have to think about bugs... > you'd do fine in college but might end up coming out an indoctrinated sjw. that happens to many people that go to uni regardless of their IQ (IQ doesn't say that much anyway), some of us were lucky enough to become sjw before university. >>13572 XMPP isn't that difficult to set up (for the end-user anyway), i'd say it's like opening an ICQ account (do you remember that one lol?), PGP is relatively okay too... if they use thunderbird there are quite nice plugins for encryption... and i personally use an extension (i think it's called enigmail? can't check right now) in my browser

Signal is something I use all day everyday with normal people. For internet friends I use Briair, Jabber, Tox and IRC.

>>16880 after seeking answers that I couldn't come up by myself, as I somethimes like my ideas so much I can't relate them with reality w/o trying them or asking about, I got to the conclusion you repeat here: > this thread is a bit soykaf > secure conversation happen only in person I like the fact someone reached me as you did and analized all the aspect of this thread, so I'd like to ask you if isn't it the time for a thread about trackerless lifes and engaging those kind of conversations (w/o sjw obv) in anonimity? >>16886 still you don't know what you're talking about (also XMPP is incredibly simple to setup nowadays, if you are an end-user, just signup for an XMPP service, or ask friends to try together, try prosody)

>>16919 >still you don't know what you're talking about why is it so? >(also XMPP is incredibly simple to setup nowadays, if you are an end-user, just signup for an XMPP service, or ask friends to try together, try prosody) thanks for repeating what i said? O.o

>>16920 > why synthesis: The problem I firstly pose: secure communicaton The first solution: use x y z The secondary problem: people are lazy, no matter the encryption The real problem: secure conversation The real solution: talk in person > repeating what I've said sorry skimmed

>>16886 >i think it's called enigmail? can't check right now) it's actually mailvelope apaprently

>>16921 i still don't understand what that has to do with what i said. talking in person isn't a solution... the real solution here is not communicate at all... because with your thinking no channel is secure. meatspace places can be bugged, people can be bugged, do you trust people involved in your convos?

>>16936 > do you trust people...? welcone to the first part of my answer: > isn't it time for a thread about [...] and enagaging those kind of conversation in anonimity? aka life w/o phones and building trust with unknown people

This entire thread an not a single mention of threat modeling. So of course it naturally devolves into absolutist tinfoil hattery. TRUST NO ONE BECOME A HERMIT AND NEVER COMMUNICATE

>>16936 you should stick to >>>/sec/7354 and you may understand the critical thinking about communication and what we were talking about in those last post

https://davidlazar.org/papers/vuvuzela.pdf

Tox is pretty epic platform.

I still don't understand XMPP How the hell does it even work?

>>19104 >I still don't understand XMPP >How the hell does it even work? Do you mean in a detailed technical sense, or in a broad-overview sense? If you mean the latter, it's basically taking the decentralized email model to instant messaging. Anyone can run an instant messaging server that interconnects with all the rest (unless a particular server operator disabled the interconnect on their own server). XMPP addresses look like email addresses, user@server.tld. But unlike email and much like modern instant messengers, the "message a stranger" thing requires that both parties add each other as a contact. This basically eliminates spam problems. The XMPP protocol and reference code is often the basis of proprietary messengers too. Reference implementations are free and reliable, so it's easy to kickstart a phone messenger app by just building it on top of XMPP.

>>13819 halogen.city kiwifarms has an instance like another anon said, nobodyhasthe.biz theres gotta be a few more

>>19108 Thank you, lainon. I appreciate the thought-out response. It sounds quite reasonable and all but why isn't it used more? I've rarely ever seen anyone talk about contacting them via "XMPP". Jabber is something I heard about years ago but never knew anyone who used(?) it.

>>19124 I think it isn't used much because federated, decentralized XMPP has no corporate backing. There would be no way for a corporation to lock users into using only its service. And good end-to-end encryption is common in XMPP clients - the OMEMO encryption you might see mentioned elsewhere is basically the Signal protocol. Corporations really only have two ways of making money from messaging apps: either tracking connections between users to augment their shadow-profile methods in other products (like what Facebook does with Whatsapp), or actually scanning content of messages for targeting ads (like Google does with RCS and their assistant "feature"). The combination of XMPP's decentralization and security means that there's no financial incentive for them to back full-scale secure XMPP. The irony is that RCS is basically XMPP, just locked down to federating between mobile carriers, and stripped of all security features. Also, XMPP is Jabber. It's basically a deprecated name for the tech.

>>13572 Matrix seems intresting as a Unified Communications Architecture. It has a web client, IOS , Android, linux. It does Voice, Text and Video. Its frederated. Tox doesnt have a usable IOS client, and i cant switch my social network to it due to this. I am experimenting with riot.im

>>19267 > linux. Waiting for nheko becomes more mature.