Discord needs to die.

I think Discord is one of the worst current examples of a software mistreating it's users; yet it's massively popular and only getting more and more users by the day. Almost every chatting programs in the past are either open source protocols like IRC, mumble, more recently matrix, or a proprietary software but at least allowing users to host their own servers (teamspeak, ventrilo). Discord on the other hand is proprietary software, with no plans of making the source code public, and every channel has to be hosted on THEIR servers. Since Discord is obviously for-profit, they have to make profit from hosting everything on their servers rather than letting users host servers on their own machines and therefore taking care of the bandwidth themselves. If you take a peek at their Privacy Policy, you'll see that they store everything you do (voice data, text data) on their servers, in plaintext. They are very vague about their usage of said data. They also have the right to change their Privacy Policy any time without prior notice to the users, effectively allowing them to do whatever they want. Discord has shown in the past that they have no problems giving out identifying information on it's users, even when not under legal pressure, like what happened during Charlottesville protests. They also act as moral polices, banning things like lolicon entirely because they see it "improper", not even for legal reasons. Of course, that kind of ruling would be all fine for their own servers (I'm not saying they have to host content they are not fine with), but what makes it a problem is that they wont let people host servers of their own. I also have problems with their client. It's slow, heavy, and full of (in my opinion) unneeded features. It also features a process logger (for displaying the games you are playing) which is a privacy concern too. With IRC, you have a wide variety of clients to choose from, many being very lightweight. You'll have no problems running one in any computer made within the last 20 years. Good luck doing the same with Discord. Is there anything that can be done about this? It's sad to see many old IRC/Mumble communities move over to Discord. Yet every time I voice my concerns about it, people treat me as if I was a flat-earther or something. I think history has shown that the vast majority of people prefer convenience over privacy. This makes me think that resistance is somewhat futile, unless a FOSS alternative with superior features (for normal people) arrives. Perhaps matrix with riot.im or some other client could be "the one"?

No, not much can be done about discord. Their marketing department did a great job targeting a great chunk of the internet users. I can honestly imagine that they paid some high profile users and game developers in gaming community to wage slave their product. Once you have those people on your side, usage will spread like wildfire. As discord is social in its nature, you have added effect of social pressure on the friends of the users. They are presented a choice: loose your "friends" or use our service. At this point only thing that will stop people from using it, is service shutting down. Trying to prevent people from using discord is same as trying to prevent people from using facebook.

>>7487 I think the reason for Discord being so successful is them tapping into the market of people who only care about vidya and stuff 'werking'. Like you said mentioning the complications of Discord to a user is pretty much a waste of time. The systems these people run are already 100% proprietary software. They don't care. The only thing that worked for me is going full Stallman and just cutting contact and dropping vidya while we're at it. That whole community is a waste of time for the most part. Surround yourself with people with the same interests as you and more importantly contribute to the communities you like. We're not going to convice Discord people to switch.

I have mixed feelings about Discord. On one hand it's killing Skype and provides fairly good user experience. But I want a lot more. Both in terms of functionality and openness.

The question shouldn't be what is there to be done with discord but what can libre software do tobe more convenient and have better marketing

Lainchan is like a place for people who hate sweet things because of the sweet taste in a world of people who mostly love sweet things. Sure, chugging all that sweet soykaf down every day causes all sorts of short term and long term health problems, but the vast majority of the population reacts in two ways: they love it and do it anyway, or they grudge their love for it and try to cut back, but still want it as much as anyone else. In this thread, Discord is the same as "sweet". Some people love it just how it is: intuitive, easy to install and use, there's only one client that gets a decent amount of polishing instead of a clusterfuck of different clients and standards and formats, "shady hacker kids" cannot meddle in the protocol by googling, they don't have to ask for mom's credit card so they can get scammed trying to rent a server, and nobody is allowed to play cool kid and have their own physical server of servers. It's also ad-free, looks woah so gamer, there is no real advantage of Nitro, and all they really have to pay for it is something they absolutely don't care about: their bored chitchat and memeposting and occasional raging scream at some dumb kid on mid lane. Discord is a for profit service that serves 98% of people for profit, and doesn't give two fuarrrks about the other 2% that is lainchan users and similar people. Most of the things you mention as things that need imrpovement are actually features for the other 98% who are glad they don't have to deal with shady "pedo drawings" or people who mess into the "code", want the world to know that they are playing Battlefield 9 BattleAttack-WarBattle DLC, are glad that there is no servers or clients or anything. I think the one thing you really want from Discord, OP, is to ban everyone you want to talk to so they will move to your platform of distributed PGP-encrypted text-only IRC with i3-themes.

there is a matrix bridge for discord and someone graciously hosts a copy for free here: https://t2bot.io/ That will solve your concerns over the client being sluggish. The only thing you can do is try to understand the viewpoint of the person you're trying to convince not to use discord or spread knowledge.

>>7505 All honest this can apply to all the free software community The community really needs to rethink their methods and philosophy to compete with proprietary software

>>7501 I honestly wouldn't mind seeing more paid open software. Increasing people awareness would be even better, but I don't see it happening when even IT people often don't know basics about free software.

>>7505 This post is golden. The more I get interested in opensource communities the more I feel like it's just a cyrclejerk of elitists. If this ideology and community wants to actually mean something to majority of people who it claims to prottect they should really consider changing their philosophy to something that is not as hard to read and hard to understand as it is these days.

>>7487 Focusing on Discord is missing the point. You have to improve your own behavior and continue evangelizing. As long as you don't give into apathy, you never really fail. I don't use Discord or Facebook. People who want to talk to me find a way. >>7512 In practice, this isn't how the community has succeeded. Most success seems to come from replacing private infrastructure and making companies with money dependent on it. LAMP took the world by storm. GCC is arguably the most popular compiler in use. Python/Perl/Ruby are extremely popular tools. More and more programmers are exposed to the ideology of the tools they use everyday. Now we have things like Krita and Blender. >>7524 Without open source, there would be no lainchan. Does it mean anything to you now?

>>7505 >>7524 >If this ideology and community wants to actually mean something to majority of people who it claims to prottect they should really consider changing their philosophy to something that is not as hard to read and hard to understand as it is these days. There's already open source for people that want to discuss Free Software without taking any strong moral stances on anything. History has shown a small percentage of the population can do something and the rest will follow. All Free Software is written by a small amount of people, but has worldwide recognition for merely carrying the ideals of computing before proprietary software existed. Free Software doesn't need to be watered down, because most people will never care in any case, and will use whatever comes on their computer, but Free Software may eventually be the software that comes on that computer.

>>7529 >Free Software doesn't need to be watered down, because most people will never care in any case, and will use whatever comes on their computer, but Free Software may eventually be the software that comes on that computer. I disagree with this last past. What actually arrives on regular people's devices is propitiatory software stolen from open source (Android, iOS, OSX, Chrome etc).

>>7527 We also would not have a lainchan without corporations. Or the slavery of african people. Or second world war, as the parents of people making SEL would probably not meet. Did I mention butchers? Hunting and later farms and butchers played a role much more crucial to the rise of compsci and lainchan than open source software. My point being "something would not have happened without X" arguments are most often useless, unless you want to hype significance into something that doesn't really have any. Since open source already has some, this thing won't really add.

Im using discord and i hate it. I try to convert people to matrix whenever i can. Its a sad struggle. Im hoping matrix bridging and such will help, but im not very optimistic.

Discords bells and whistles, "UX", and "convenience" are near meaningless, and every discussion by linux nerds about how the open source community should soykaf out as complicated and overblown an electron dumpster fire to compete are severely misguided.

>>7520 I just think libre software needs better marketing and user testing >>7524 We're not alone, but how should the philosophy of free software change is a more complex topic. maybe we should make a thread. >>7527 >In practice, this isn't how the community has succeeded. Most success seems to come from replacing private infrastructure and making companies with money dependent on it. LAMP took the world by storm. GCC is arguably the most popular compiler in use. Python/Perl/Ruby are extremely popular tools. More and more programmers are exposed to the ideology of the tools they use everyday. Now we have things like Krita and Blender. This is why I'm behind React OS, replacing windows is easier than teaching a new OS to the grandmas and the little timmies. >>7529 That sounds kind of naïve, and I have to add to what >>7533 says, if libre software wants to reach the common people they need to compete with the closed source alternative.

>>7533 Open source is even popular among major companies, even if its mainly to extract labor. Even Microsoft has been releasing things under permissive licenses.

>>7536 You're being disingenuous. The most relevant part of the infrastructure being used right now is directly available because of free culture. You could be complaining on Facebook or Twitter about free software communities, but here you are.

>>7487 >Is there anything that can be done about this? probably not, Discord has too big of a player base and most of them don't give two hoots about privacy. For them, it's the chat client for gamers. IMO, this is a fundamental problem with foss software in general: it's not the popular software, nor is it the 'standard'. Industries will be willing to shell out hundreds of thousands for proprietary software despite foss alternatives more than happy to cover their use cases simply because it's the 'standard'. People may voice their concerns about privacy, but when it comes to action, convenience always triumphs. The only exception is when security is absolutely necessary (Linux for servers and datacenters), when the proprietary alternative is former or current corporate freeware (Mozilla, Tensorflow, etc). I can only see a floss alternative to Discord if a corporate entity (bigger than Discord or multiple companies) backs said floss software.

Well, since we're on topic, what are some good FOSS alternatives to discord?

>>7556 IRC for instant group messaging, XMPP or Tox for one on one talk, Mumble for voice chat. Matrix is an attempt to have all of the above in single protocol, but it's in early stages.

>>7550 You don't seem to have good enough abstract thinking to disconnect from the discussion to understand my point about this type of argument in general. I do not mind this lack of ability or effort, as it doesn't have any implications on my argument. Thank your for participating though.

>>7558 You think it's because I don't have good enough abstract thinking, but it's just as much because of slavery, corporations, and WWII.

>>7560 You think that was a nice comeback (it was), but it also means you agree to agree, and also please read this license and privacy policy: We own you

>why do people use this? Retards will be retards. It's the same reason there are people using applel products, win8/10, et cetera

>>7546 >if libre software wants to reach the common people they need to compete with the closed source alternative. I suppose that's fair enough, and there's Firefox and Libreoffice and other projects that do just this. It's important to remember that Free Software is an ideal, and not inherently some organized group that can want things. I'll stand by what I wrote earlier; it's not necessary for Free Software to change to meet people, because those people may be using it in the future without even noticing. I'd rather have Free Software remain a relatively fringe culture, rather than get watered down to appease people that will never care regardless. Ending on that note, it's advantageous for proprietary software businesses if Free Software were watered down, which is open source, because it allows them to get free work and not get any hard questions about the morality of what they're doing.

>>7563 >it's not necessary for Free Software to change to meet people, because those people may be using it in the future without even noticing. The point of open source is the maintain control over the software you run. If there is a bug or a missing feature or end of life, you should be able to repair it yourself (or hire someone with the relevant expertise to do it for you). Popularity is not a useful metric. Especially if what you are measuring is open source code stolen by corporations and bundled into propitiatory walled garden environments like Android. It doesn't matter how many people use Android, that's not a fuarrrking victory for open source in any way.

>>7564 >The point of open source is the maintain control over the software you run. That's not the point of open source; the point of open source is that it produces good software, but that better, proprietary software should be used if feasible. Look at the case of bitkeeper until git was created to replace it. >Popularity is not a useful metric. I agree. >Especially if what you are measuring is open source code stolen by corporations and bundled into propitiatory walled garden environments like Android. It doesn't matter how many people use Android, that's not a fuarrrking victory for open source in any way. I wasn't trying to imply Android was Free Software in any meaningful sense. Neither is the core of iOS, because both are restricted and covered to the point of uselessness. This is a good read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html I agree that popularity isn't important, the ideals of Free Software are.

>>7566 My mistake, I didn't make the distinction between open source and free software.

>>7561 >You think that was a nice comeback (it was), but it also means you agree to agree No, it doesn't mean I agree to agree. It's a counter example demonstrating how your reasoning fails. All of the past is a cause for the present, but reasonable people can talk about relevant local consequences. If someone drops a ball and says "Gravity pulls it towards the earth.", only an idiot would object and say "Yeah, but the ball falling wouldn't have been possible without your hand. Your hand is just as relevant as gravity." Humans use discretion to decide which things are relevant. I know you know that free software is more relevant to lainchan's existence than WWII, and that's why I can say you're being disingenuous.

>>7563 >its okay if other people are slaves, their master will be kind enough to release them This is a terrible way of thinking, people are not going to save themselves from the mouth of google bu if we let google keep eating people they'll eat us too not matter how free we are. >>7564 >The point of open source is the maintain control over the software you run. If there is a bug or a missing feature or end of life, you should be able to repair it yourself (or hire someone with the relevant expertise to do it for you). That'll be the case if you're a programmer, normal people will have different reasons but the important part is that they're safe and have some control.

>>7576 >That'll be the case if you're a programmer, normal people will have different reasons but the important part is that they're safe and have some control. That's the main difference between open source and free software. Open Source is about empowering developers. Free Software is about empowering users. This was posted earlier. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html

Server side is one thing, and although the client isn't officially open source; the .asar is easy to unpack and inspect.

>>7575 Since you demonstrate an understanding of your mistake, I'll leave you to avoiding it by yourself in the future. Now let us return to this bustling conversation in this thread sparked by proprietary software.

So much this. I hate to use this word, but at least Discord works as a fine normal person filter. But I am always fascinated about the fact that people don't care about privacy as long as it's easy for them to use said technologies. Remember when the Xbox One was announced and everyone said that Kinect was a spying device? Nowadays people put amazon's Alexa in their room. It's quite sad when you think about it. The internet has such a great potential. It's basically free education for everyone, with a lot of entertaining content and games as well. But people decide to sell their privacy so they can whore out on Snapchat or Instagram. Maybe that's the reason a lot of people say the Internet was better in the 90's.

>>7591 >[...] everyone said that Kinect was a spying device? Nowadays people put amazon's Alexa in their room. Nothing could have sum up the current mind of people better than that. What make me even more *worried* is the fact people goes for Google. Even though Google is known very well for its total lack of privacy, and totally are OK with saying "we sell your data guys".

>>7491 I unfortunately agree with you, the gaming scene is dead and brainwashed to hell.

Having a hard time understanding chose discord to soykaf on. Because I love it? No, I fuarrrking hate the thing, but compared to any other similar compromised software that some people end up having to use for one reason or another, discord is one of the less cancerous of all. As >>7493 pointed out, there's nothing bad to say about it that you can't say about skyp as well. Actually, it is better in terms of functionality, and while as ethically compromised, it also has a plus because never forget that if you have to feed a monster, at least feed the small one. That goes for comparing it with G hangouts as well. It's also a plus in the sense that as much as gamers are a bunch of spoiled cunts when it comes to software usage, they're less crippled and retarded than the 'normal' user who wants to share baby and cat pics. So in the big picture, a service targeted at them growing and in a lot of cases substituting usage of skyp or fbook, it is somehow contributing to mitigate at least a little bit the dumbing down of the internet as a whole. Not writing this to defend it though, it is soykaf and it should die. Just saying that misguided criticism and lack of strategical point of views are not going to help with that. What could help, if at all possible, would be to join forces with other anti-proprietary places on the internet, or at least chans, because outsiders hate us anyway, and make big rooms on platforms like Matrix, tox, or at least IRC for specific subjects that would attract more normal-ish people from chans. For example, say /lain/, /tech/ and /g/ make some servers for games, movies, music, whatever, and start shil ling it on other boards specifically interested on that. If it's big enough other anons would join, and more and more as it grows. I believe some gamers from here and /tech/ actually did that with some FOSS game a while back and it sort of worked, but can't remember what it was because I'm not a gamer. What I'm saying is, what if before we think of spreading FOSS over the internet or world, we focus on missions to do that on image boards, where at least people are less mediocre and a little bit more open to new stuff? And very prone to join in a meme hive mentality. I remember when discords started being posted around imageboards, and how fast it went from almost everyone asking wtf is this to servers being absolutely packed.

>>7615 This is a mentality I like but there is something naive about your post, can't pinpoint what tho. For me making a new piece of software is always better than complaining and offering no solution and yes I hope people who doesn't like discord gets behind that. All honest I don't see why people hates it so much beside the fact that its proprietary.

>>7617 >there is something naive about your post, can't pinpoint what tho. Maybe given the present state of affairs with internet and tech, believing that things could work and cause change for good ends up being naive. Feel like that myself quite often, but force to try and see different options for solutions, because we got to at least try them all before quitting.

>>7617 I know what the naive thing is about that post (>>7615) This line right here: >What could help, if at all possible, would be to join forces with other anti-proprietary places on the internet, or at least chans, because outsiders hate us anyway, and make big rooms on platforms like Matrix, tox, or at least IRC for specific subjects that would attract more normal-ish people from chans. This is a recipe for cancer that is so terminal, not even the joined forces of every corporation in promise of a patent for 'making profit' would be able to create it. The faster a chan moves, the more cancer you get; this seems inherent to its nature, as it takes a relatively slow pace for people who don't do anything but post all day to feel bored and go somewhere else.

>>7619 Maybe is that, things won't go the good way by them selves, you need a plan to guide them

>>7617 >I don't see why people hates it so much beside the fact that its proprietary. Cell phone number verification for a fucking chat app/website. At least if you plan on connecting from a VPN (which you should).

>>7487 Most of the people I have seen around me don't even know what https is. For that reason I gave up a long time ago on facebook users that would give up their data at any time of the the day. I believe that anonimity should be given but to the people that actually care.

>>7647 Strange, discord has yet to ask me for my phone number.

>>7648 Yeah, most people believe privacy is a given. Everything seems to perpetrate this view. In the material world you rarely see surveillance, only for purpose of crime prevention. The stories of 1984 seem to be alien. The collected data on the internet isn't visible, only when you encounter ads. The fairly recent case of a Euro journalist asking for the collect data on themself was enlightening: 1000 pages of data. If this action was more well-known, the idea of internet privacy could get more traction. Also: a proprietary software is black box and people are used to black boxes. Almost all household appliance's inner workings are unfathomable to them. The inner workings of the goverment, too. No wonder why they don't care how their next tool works. The complexity of the world can be countered with proper education, the thing we don't have. They teach science like they preach theological dogmas. Science is exploration, not memorization of already known facts. This is also soykaf for getting people involved in science. People are used to calling the "experts" on every failure of machines because they don't know anything about how to fix them. Usage of free software is about the right to fix your problems and modify the program according to your needs. Something they don't care about because they don't do a thing in the outside world. Using free software is the parallel of self-sufficiency. IMO: propietary software is winning because of the state of society and the material world, and those are the problems we need to address.

>>7667 couldn't said it better myself. but can we fix the way society works? sometimes I think it's better to just opt out of society and do my own thing.

>>7667 >People are used to calling the "experts" on every failure of machines because they don't know anything about how to fix them. >The man-made environment has become as inscrutable as nature is for the primitive.

>>7671 Yes, it has. The difference is that maybe now we have more literate people than in previous ages. Do you know how toilets work? Most people don't, according to surveys and studies.

>>7670 Try telling people what that Lain said, and see how long it takes you to be called a conspiracy theorist or nerd. There's no fixing society anon, they're too far gone.

>>7701 If they say conspiracy theory against this argument, then there ia no salvation. This would be conspiracy if it contained something that says all of this is intented. But it isn't.

>>7671 ...except to primitive people nature wasn't so inscrutable. They knew all the local flora and fauna; what was edible, what was poisonous, what wanted to eat them instead.

>>7701 Mainstream society has always been fuarrrked and always will be. However thats no reason for giving up and not trying, despite all the odds stacked against people like us, we still have a chance. If you chose to give up and just live out whatever life you can afford while going out of the way, i can understand that, but you shouldnt discourage others who try to change things. >>7704 >This would be conspiracy if it contained something that says all of this is intented. But it isn't. A conspiracy would be if this was planned before hand, it might be intended and desired by observation of peoples reaction and adjusting to it. >>7706 Discovery of eddible plants was a long process with trial and error for many 100 years and quite a few poor suckers who bit the bullet so we know whats poisonous and not.

>>7707 > we know whats poisonous and not Exactly the point. The technological environment changes so fast, folklore and hereditary wisdom is irrelevant. 1000 years ago my father could teach me to hunt or farm like his father taught him; what could he teach me about computers? How to use DOS or the Atari cassette drive?

>>7704 >If they say conspiracy theory against this argument, then there is no salvation I've literally been called a paranoid conspiracy theorist for this argument I would say "I can't wait to upload my consciousness and leave this society behind", but I bet when the singularity comes it'll be owned by Facebook.

>>7706 Fair point. >The man-made environment has become even more inscrutable as nature is for the primitive.

>>7710 but if the singularity is owned by facebook, doesn't that mean facebook is the good guy?

Related recent event: https://archive.fo/vM2gd http://www.businessinsider.com/discord-closes-down-deepfakes-server-ai-celebrity-porn-2018-1?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds Centralized services abusing censorship shouldn't come as any surprise, but this one kinda catches the eye for how stupid it is.

>>7667 >Also: a proprietary software is black box and people are used to black boxes. Almost all household appliance's inner workings are unfathomable to them. The inner workings of the government, too. No wonder why they don't care how their next tool works. The complexity of the world can be countered with proper education, the thing we don't have. They teach science like they preach theological dogmas. Science is exploration, not memorization of already known facts. This is also soykaf for getting people involved in science. The whole idea of blackboxing is conducive to capitalism, because it encourages a return customer. its like the saying about teaching a man to fish ruins a wonderful business opportunity. in its current state, there is no incentive to not behaving in this fashion. the repercussions of consumer society are still a few decades away and have little to no impact on the current lifestyle of most consumers. I have a feeling that those sentiments will rapidly change in the next 30 years. overall, the corporatization of nations and entire industries should be alarming to people, as corporations end up surpassing the capabilities of a single person, and grow with a momentum that is beyond even the control of their CEOs.. but I digress >>7670 There is plenty argument to advocate towards a counter culture. as it stands, society is going in a terrible direction due to population growth and the throwaway system that was up until the last decade or so largely sustainable with no consequences. doing your own thing means giving up what most people take for granted, and from experience you become quite isolated by not buying into the newest and latest hype gadget or product >>7671 the way I look at it is we built society as a castle on a sand foundation, one wrong move and the entire thing will collapse in on itself because there is no user base skilled enough to maintain it. look at how many people are being paid to work into their 80s because they are skilled on programing languages that have been out of date for 30 years. the same goes for most technology. a perfect example that I recall was that several school systems utilizing a certain companies proprietary textbook service online were unable to teach classes for weeks when the servers hosting those proprietary textbooks went offline because of a storm. With backups, people trained to maintain technologies, or the widespread use of open source, situations like that could have been prevented, but where is the profit in that ?

It can destroy some sites like 4chan.

>>7767 No wonder they like it there so much

>>7763 I completely agree, you analogue of fishing is a perfect example. Also, it's good at countering econonic logic with common knowledge, or common sense. I think another weak point of the capitalist system is that it actually works better if the people are more educated ( and most capitalist ideologues are all about efficiency of the free market ) - see Scandinavia. We could either use it to point at a contradiction of the system ( relying on something that the system destroys ) or to point at a fault that needs to be corrected: individuals' knowledge should be a value in itself and people shouldn't learn just to be a more useful cog in the machine, but to enjoy themselves and for the betterment of society at large ( economic efficiency is only one factor in the equation ).

>>7667 >The complexity of the world can be countered with proper education I don't think that's true anymore. The world has grown so complex its complexity is beyond our ability to learn. You can specialize in one narrow field, maybe two but in everything else you'll always be an ignorant layman. You think technology is bad? Try law. If you live anywhere in the developed world I can guarantee you that you don't know all the laws in force in your area. In fact, nobody does. It's no longer humanly possible to even read all of them, there's just so much legal text. Complexity is the price of progress. Propriety software is winning because the developers behind it realized that they can't expect the users to specialize. They win because they deliver an appliance. Free Software movement needs to change its mindset to be able to compete with propriety software, it needs empathy for the layman.

What other alternative is there to Discord? There's nothing else out there >IRC privacy concerns make me uncomfortable.

>>7808 Some lains were posting about an encrypted chat client called Tox earlier. If you're concerned enough about privacy that you don't want to touch IRC, it will probably appeal to you.

>>7808 real life conversation? unless you've made sure to libreboot op[en source hardware youve already got an issue of hardware backdoors, unfortunately. Signal, ive heard, is good

>>7818 >real life conversation? In a world where everyone carries little tracking devices with microphones in their pockets?

>>7664 Your IP address provided precise geolocation information, so it wasn't necessary. Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA!

Telegram, my dudes. What do you think of it? It's not exactly a multipurpose monster like skype or discord, but it's still nice. Oh, and it's open source, iirc.

>>7861 groups are plaintext, unsafe defaults, eccentric untested roll your own crypto

>>7808 matrix / riot bridges to: IRC , discord , telegram, slack has video and audio plugins, e2e encryption and somewhat federated

>>7861 k, I'll bite it >phone number id without other options >sends all your contacts to server after start >you can deanonymize people by bruteforcing all possible phone numbers >unsafe SMS 2fa that's been exploited numerous times already >soyamericano crypto >written by a schizo with no degree in cryptography >it's so soymocha, even watsapp outdoes it >users can be derezzed for wrongthink >admins can read and delete your message history >admins can take away your username if some e-celeb asks them to >FSB honeypot >somehow only popular in Russia and it's puppet states like Iran >they always threaten to ban it, but it is still there >centralized servers >no voice calls >software builds are not reproducible >devs don't know how to use git >no voice and video conferences >to make a bot you need some bullsoykaf good boy tokens wen in XMPP it's a matter of registering an account on a server What else do you need? Did you really expect people who literally made Russian copy of Facebook to protect your privacy and speech rights?

>>7861 Telegram is far from perfect (see >>7867). I use it to communicate with the few friends I have (whom I routinely to urge to come to the free side). It's still sligthly better than WhatsApp due to at least the client(s) being Free. For me the biggest issue lies behind the backend being proprietary and the founder conveniently being a multi-million dollar businessman. The monetization of Telegram is coming any day now (if they're not already datamining people's conversations).

>>7861 You're an idiot, my dude. https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right-now-1782557415 https://medium.com/@keivan/telegram-not-as-secure-as-you-might-think-19345976edad https://medium.freecodecamp.org/why-i-asked-my-friends-to-stop-using-whatsapp-and-telegram-e93346b3c1f0 https://www.wired.com/story/whatsapp-security-flaws-encryption-group-chats/amp https://www.hackread.com/snowden-explains-why-telegram-messenger-is-unsafe/ https://theoutline.com/post/2348/what-isn-t-telegram-saying-about-its-connections-to-the-kremlin?zd=1 https://www.recode.net/2017/12/30/16833542/telegram-iran-demostrations-messaging-protests-pavel-durov

>>7487 Spoiler alert: you can stop using it if you're not happy. The end.